▼EXPAND THIS SECTION FOR MORE RESOURCES RELATED TO THIS VIDEO▼ *Tools used in this video:* -CBN bench stones and hones: woodturnerswonders.com/collections/hones -Diamond bench stones and hones (Trend): amzn.to/3EMZD3b -CBN discs for Worksharp: woodturnerswonders.com/collections/cbn-discs-for-work-sharp -CBN wheels for Tormek: woodturnerswonders.com/collections/tormek-style-wheels -Diamond wheels for Tormek: amzn.to/3FUz1yB -CBN bench grinder wheels: woodturnerswonders.com/pages/cbn-wheels -Diamond bench grinder wheels: woodturnerswonders.com/collections/diamond-wheels *Links promised in this video:* -More sharpening videos on our website: stumpynubs.com/category/free-tutorials/sharpening/ -Subscribe to our e-Magazine: stumpynubs.com/browse-and-subscribe/ -Check out our project plans: stumpynubs.com/product-category/plans/ -Instagram: instagram.com/stumpynubs/ ★THIS VIDEO WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY★ Woodturners Wonders woodturnerswonders.com/ *Please help support us by using the link above for a quick look around!* (If you use one of these affiliate links, we may receive a small commission)
I never knew the difference between diamond and CBN. Now I think I understand the difference and also the difference in their use. I will change some of my sharpening technique. Thank you for educating. Have a great 2022 and stay safe.
Well, James has done it again. Just a great teacher. This is yet another one that I would not have done the research to figure out, but you have knocked it out of the park. As always, your fans are grateful and we appreciate you being such a good teacher by being a lifelong learner.
Hi James, I switched to CBN wheels to sharpen my lathe tools a year ago, I’ll never go back. One of the cautionary statements from the manufacturer surprised me though as it read “do not sharpen high carbon steel tools as this will clog the abrasive surface”. Happily I have another low speed grinder so moved my white wheels over. Now I sharpen my hand tools on white reserving the CBN for HSS only.
Very informative video SN! This is off topic but I wonder if you would do a video about knife sharpening at some point. I know that there are plenty of videos on that subject but the ones that I have watched never explain the differences between the various sharpening devices. I think that you would do a much better job! Thanks. 👍👍😉😉
Ken at Woodturners wonders is a great guy to talk to. CBN wheels changed the game on turning tools. I use an1800rpm industrial 3ph 8" grinder with a VFD and I can change speeds and reverse the grinder. A whole new world. HNY!👍🏻👍🏻
Heavy emphasis on CBN wheels are for 'hardened' metals only! The life of a CBN wheel, for production work is about 5 years. I did take an old worn out one and purposely loaded it up with soft steel, aluminum, brass and copper. After a month of sharpening my lathe scrapers on it, the colors from the softer metals was gone. Lapping fluid can be applied to the bevel of the tool you are sharpening, and it can help lift the soft metal off of your grinding wheels. If you apply it directly to the wheel, you will get sprayed, and I found out the hard way..... They do sell very hard aluminum oxide sticks to also do the same thing. Diamond wheels on a Tormek or the various clones of it, can last pretty much forever. I use the CBN wheels from D Way since the owners are personal friends. I do like the heavier steel wheels, but you have to have a grinder that will drive them, 1/2 hp isn't enough.
I just got cbn wheels for my work sharp from wood turning wonders based on your previous recommendation. They were easy to work with and the wheels are wonderful. Thanks for the tip. You’re always on target.
EXCELLENT info 👌 James. Just a suggestion - when you are breaking it down to the short strokes please list as you are talking. It doubles the delivery. Otherwise, an excellent, informative video backed with science and an experienced opinion that we have all come to highly value. Thanks 😊
I have a 180 grit cbn wheel (from Ken) on my slow speed grinder that I use to sharpen my turning tools. Makes a world of difference in turning over the old stone wheels.
I recently purchased the Trend 300/1000 grit diamond plate that you like to use. I'm still getting used to it. At the moment, it's the only diamond plate that I own. I'm glad I bought it and your tutorials helped me make that decision. Although, I still don't know how to use the eraser that cam with it.
Do it! I have had my Tormek for close to 15 years. It has been one of my best tool purchases. (It now has a CBN wheel on it from Ken Rizza at WoodTurners Wonders. Much faster and less messy than the original wheel.)
@@DKWalser I'm sure I will at some point once my workshop finally gets built and I have some space. For now I make do with a Veritas sharpening jig and diamond plates, it works well enough.
Very informative. Thanks for explaining the benefits of the 2, however I do prefer the longevity and what many pro old tradesmen are using for a long time diamonds do win in my opinion.
Great video explaining the difference between CBN and DIAMOND grinding wheels. So, my application is sharpening non-carbide chainsaw chain. Which is better here? Price is about the same, so thought diamond would be better. Guessing you will say CBN is better here due to lower grind temps at the higher grind speeds? If so, can you please recommend a supplier of CBN grind wheels for my chainsaw grinder? Thanks again for the good explanation!
One place I find diamond and Cbn won't replace in sharpening is when you want that mirror edge. I know the diamond films can do it or CBN pastes on strops. But there's something about a chosera whetstone polished edge it always comes out nicer and better. Great video though, lots of great points for those that don't know a lot about sharpening yet or just getting into it. I have a bit of each, diamond, CBN and chosera.
I grind with CBN to fix or reshape an edge. I sharpen with fine grit diamonds (either on the Tormek or by hand). Then I strop on leather with paste. I don't believe CBN or Diamonds are really intended to give you a mirror edge on their own.
@@StumpyNubs sort of. When you consider some offer 1500-1800 grit, where a 1800grit chosera is pretty nicely polished there. Obviously going higher can get better. Those stropping films you can get to put on glass or granite are diamond based usually. And I have Cbn pastes to put on leather strop that can give a mirror edge. Both can do it. It's just a nicer edge with chosera. Maybe looking at it more from the knife world with sharpening systems only using diamond stones and getting to a mirror finish. It's doable just not as nice.
@@JoeC92 There's a TH-cam channel (out of Japan?) where the presenter hand sharpens knives. He works through a range of 5 or 6 grits. The finest is something astronomical - like 6000. It's overkill until he slices loosely held sheets of paper with nearly zero force. The edge is likely sharper than a surgeon's diamond scalpel.
@@gregparrott virtuovice or something like that if that's who you mean. I know exactly who you're talking about. I learned a lot about hand sharpening from him. He's a big fan of bark River knives Highest grip I have is 8000. On a Japanese style kitchen knife it finishes it off with an incredible edge.
I agree with letting the diamonds do the work with light pressure . They have a nice feel imo . Trying some Venev 400/800 so far and a 150/240 is coming but it’s not an “f” ursa stone . The 400/800 Venev ursa did more of a polish finish with finer scratched than the 600 grit diamond . Seemed to work well though .
You mention low speed grinders and sharpeners - what RPM's are appropriate? Examples: My Vertical Sharpener turns at 160 rpm (the supply motor is 3450 rpm) and my Horizontal Sharpener (an older Woodcraft) uses a 7" stone at 420 RPM - both are water-emersion. I have 400, 600, 800 grit abrasive stones as well as an assortment of water stones and Diamond plates for manual work. I like the concept of CBN stones as they seem low maintenance - can these be used as water-bath stones?? Finally, what are your thoughts for belt grinders for sharpening?? Belt Width?? Belt Length?? Abrasive Materials and Grits?? Many thanks for sharing your knowledge and research!!
-Slow speed grinders are about 1750 RPM. -You can use CBN in water if you add an anti-corrosion treatment (same as with diamond wheels.) -I don't sharpen with belt grinders, personally.
It's worth pointing out that grinding carbide produces a dust that is hazardous so extraction and a respirator should be used. It would be interesting to try to quantify how much pressure is too much on a diamond plate. Are we talking some but don't push really hard or are we talking enough to keep it in contact but no more?
@@StumpyNubs Thanks James. So fairly light but not just in-contact with no pressure? Sorry, I'm confusing fingernails starting to turn white (very gentle pressure) with finger tips (harder to see but a bit more pressure). Reason I'm keen to get it right is that I suspect I've probably damaged some early cheap plates and am keen not to repeat on better ones......and I should have followed your advise and gone for the Narex chisels and not the red/yellow Irwin Marple that need sooooo much work to make the back flat (and I mean the tip, I'm not confusing a hollow ground back).
You should make a tutorial on how to break in new diamond stones. I have a brand new set that I intend to break in with an old junky kitchen knife, but not entirely sure how I’ll know when the stones are broken in properly.
In addition to the carbon absorption problem with grinding iron at high speed, diamonds soften much more with heat compared to cBN which greatly closes the hardness gap.
Seconding the recommendation for Woodturners Wonders. Great service and high quality products. So helpful if not sure which product is best for you too.
I bought a CBN wheel for sharpening my lathe tools. Love it!. One of the warnings with the wheel I bought was to use it to sharpen High Speed Steel only. Carbon steel would gum it up like aluminum on a standard wheel. True or false? Does anyone have a definite answer?
The danger with gumming up abrasive wheels is expanding the wheel with that heated material making it explode. I don’t think there is a risk with these wheel as it is metal wheel with the abrasives applied to the exterior only.
Soft steel will clog up the grit and ruin the wheel. I use a regular old grinding wheel for lawnmower blades, etc. CBN is for hardened tool steel. That said, woodturnerswonders.com has a product called a Wonderstick that they say will prevent a CBN wheel from clogging (I think). You should check it out.
lol i used to think the same thing and i just ended up buying 5 bucks worth of crappy chisels and plane irons and just practiced until i got the hang of it. that's all it is "just practice" lol good luck. dont give up.
even though we won't agree on everything you say, great post. Above all, completely unagitated and clearly formulated. I am totally committed to CBN as I cannot dictate or control the pressure my customers use when grinding. Therefore, CBN wheels and plates are the better choice for me.
I think its a misunderstanding of comfort and ease, that makes people think diamond stones are the end all be all, alternative to sharpening. I went through...10? 20? who knows how many... they dont last nearly as long as synthetic's or natural stones, nor are they more powerful/faster. but I will say from experience an average sharpener will not be able to easily acquire a "Good" set of either natural or synthetic stones, its a field of study that takes some years or luck and the market is highly saturated with crappy synthetics stones and mystery natural stones. too hard, too soft, hard/soft certain spots, abrasive particles too soft. but interesting, these diamond/CBN grinding wheels, would love to try those out, maybe one day if they become affordable, don't know if I'm being silly or not but stone grinding wheels kinda scare me... I'm probably lucky enough to survive it exploding but def will lose an eye or parts of my face.
i think you meant to say make a course stone work like a finer stone. when the diamond plates wear out. which is true. same goes for diamond films. I only use CBN for powered grinding, that is where it has the clear advantage. aside from this, it's always diamonds.
Does one kind have a more consistent grit size than the other? I have an "extra extra fine" diamond stone that has much larger chunks than the stated grit, making it basically useless. I read, is that's just a limitation of sizing diamond grit.
Is there a way of telling if a diamond stone is "blunt"? The only diamond stone I have came from a tool sale and looked well used. Seems to work ok, but I'm not sure if it is doing a good or bad job.
A question: I use a honing guide which has a brass roller (some brands of guide use a steel roller) that runs on the surface of my stone. Will this roller damage the diamond or CBN hand sharpening plates?
Last year I purchased the cbn wheels you recommend for sharpening chisels on my work sharp. They warn you that the finer cbn wheels can become clogged, my words not theirs, if you use too much pressure. I loved the wheels but trashed the finer grits in no time at all. It was totally my fault. Can you work with the supplier to produce a video instructing how to use the finer wheels correctly so no one else ends up with a round paper weight. Thank you.
@@StumpyNubs It does give a written warning and mentions the use of the stick on the web page but I missed this in my excitement. As it is obviously an issue I thought it might be worth discussing. Happy New Year Sir.
The question I have is, when I use my wood carving tools, I usually polish them on a cotton wheel with rouge. Should I use the same approach for knife sharpening? It has never failed me in 35 years of wood carving as a hobby. Yet I only recently thought about trying it on my straight blade high carbon steel knife.
@@StumpyNubs I learned wood carving and antique furniture reproduction from a Welshman many years ago. He was a very calm fellow until he saw me with a spoon-bit gouge in one hand and a sharpening stone in the other. He literally shrieked then said, "Carving tools are polished, never sharpened." It is a lesson I never forgot.
I love your site and I've learned a lot from your videos. I did some spindle turning many years ago (made a couple chess sets) and now I'm about to get back into wood turning, and probably some bowl turning. I need some advice on what I should get in the way of sharpening apparatus for sharpening HSS bowl gouges. I'm looking at the Tormek T800, and the SVD 186R gouge jig, but wondering if the included stone is what I need, or if I need to consider a diamond stone. I'm also unclear on whether the included stone is CBN or something else. I question whether it's smart to use the included tool to adjust the grit from 200 to 1000, because I suppose going back and forth would wear the stone prematurely. Do people typically have different stones and routinely change them? Or is initial grinding done at 200 grit, then convert the stone to 1000 grit thereafter. I'm a bit confused and don't want to spend buy something if it's not what I need. Thanks for any advice.
The regular stone (it is a manmade water stone, not CBN) works perfectly well. Using the stone grater to change the grit doesn't wear it much at all. It mostly burnishes the surface. You can do it as often as you like, with as much pressure as you like and it will last for many years, perhaps decades in a hobby-level shop. The diamond wheels are extremely convenient (and the coarse one is really nice for excess grinding), but for day to day use you will be very happy with the stock wheel.
Is occasional use of CBN on mild steel OK? I use my coarse aluminum oxide wheel for deburring and minor shaping of mild steel, would that damage a CBN wheel?
WoodTurnerswonders.com has a lubricant called "Wonderstick" that they say may solve that problem. I only use mine for hardened steel. If I want to grind a lawnmower blade, that's what the cheap wheels are for.
@@StumpyNubs I talked with Ken - he’s GREAT - he said to avoid soft steel as it clogs the CBN. He mentioned PB Blaster and wire brush to unclog … also check his video on Sllickstick and grinding copper.
Very interesting. But I am left with questions: In some instances, your grinder is kept wet, while in others, it's dry and sparks are flying. What are the guidelines for lubrication? Is it just that diamond wheels are used wet, while CBN wheels run dry? Also, is water the lubricant, or is an additive used?
The water cools the tool, and keeps the metal dust out of the air. Some systems (like the Tormek) have that feature. Most others do not. You can dry sharpen with both diamonds and CBN, but the benefits of water are nice.
@@StumpyNubs Thanks! Inclusion of water for cooling seems like a logical choice, both to keep the workpiece cool as well as prolong the life of the abrasive.
What grit would suggest for a diamond wheel on the tormek. I have a set of diamond plates so the wheel would be used for redoing a primary bevel and flattening backs. Mostly chisels and plane irons?
Given what you'll be using the wheel for, I would go with the 600 grit diamond wheel. For most of your sharpening needs, it will do all you need. And, if you use the honing wheel, you may not need to use your bench stones at all. But, if you're going to use a bench stone to put on a secondary (or even a tertiary) bevel, there would be no need to hone the primary bevel produced by the 600 grit wheel.
Get a 2x72 grinder and a bunch of belts including ceramic and a strop belt. You change belts by pulling down the tensioner wheel, so it's trivial to do. You can even build one yourself for the price of a Tormach. Now you have a flat surface that is big enough to lap the sole of a #4 plane and can do flat or concave.
hello James, well said and easily understood. If I may ask an auxiliary question regarding CBN wheels. What is the optimum shaft speed for an 8” can wheel? I have two grinders 2800 rpm & 1400 rpm so I am undecided which to use. I have the capacity to build a variable speed control unit, but lack the ultimate speed team for. Thanks
▼EXPAND THIS SECTION FOR MORE RESOURCES RELATED TO THIS VIDEO▼
*Tools used in this video:*
-CBN bench stones and hones: woodturnerswonders.com/collections/hones
-Diamond bench stones and hones (Trend): amzn.to/3EMZD3b
-CBN discs for Worksharp: woodturnerswonders.com/collections/cbn-discs-for-work-sharp
-CBN wheels for Tormek: woodturnerswonders.com/collections/tormek-style-wheels
-Diamond wheels for Tormek: amzn.to/3FUz1yB
-CBN bench grinder wheels: woodturnerswonders.com/pages/cbn-wheels
-Diamond bench grinder wheels: woodturnerswonders.com/collections/diamond-wheels
*Links promised in this video:*
-More sharpening videos on our website: stumpynubs.com/category/free-tutorials/sharpening/
-Subscribe to our e-Magazine: stumpynubs.com/browse-and-subscribe/
-Check out our project plans: stumpynubs.com/product-category/plans/
-Instagram: instagram.com/stumpynubs/
★THIS VIDEO WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY★
Woodturners Wonders woodturnerswonders.com/
*Please help support us by using the link above for a quick look around!*
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I never knew the difference between diamond and CBN. Now I think I understand the difference and also the difference in their use. I will change some of my sharpening technique. Thank you for educating. Have a great 2022 and stay safe.
Seconded. I learned a lot of helpful little details and differences in this one.
Well, James has done it again. Just a great teacher. This is yet another one that I would not have done the research to figure out, but you have knocked it out of the park. As always, your fans are grateful and we appreciate you being such a good teacher by being a lifelong learner.
How you share so much info within such a short period of time, without rushing is beyond me.... i can't wait for your next one
This guy is a great presenter. Clear, accurate, and does it smoothly. I bet he does it from knowledge and experience, rather than using a script.
I am a hobby machinist and love your channel. Your give fundamentals that cross many differen hobbies.
I'm always amazed at how you come up with things I need to know. Keep up the good work!
Hi James, I switched to CBN wheels to sharpen my lathe tools a year ago, I’ll never go back. One of the cautionary statements from the manufacturer surprised me though as it read “do not sharpen high carbon steel tools as this will clog the abrasive surface”. Happily I have another low speed grinder so moved my white wheels over. Now I sharpen my hand tools on white reserving the CBN for HSS only.
I don't have a workshop, I never plan to do woodworking, but I can't get enough of the content. Thanks for all the entertainment, keep it up!
Another extraordinarily informative, clear and well-presented video. Thanks as always!
Thank Professor Nubs. Great information on grinding, sharpening choices.
Thank you James. I didn't know the subtle differences between the grinding/sharpening media, thank you.
Very timely and informative…I’m looking at purchasing a sharpening system right now and this definitely helps.
Nails, glues, and abrasives. This is the dope content we crave and Stumpy Nubs always delivers.
Thanks James, another simple to understand tutorial, Happy New Year and God Bless.
Very informative video SN! This is off topic but I wonder if you would do a video about knife sharpening at some point. I know that there are plenty of videos on that subject but the ones that I have watched never explain the differences between the various sharpening devices. I think that you would do a much better job! Thanks. 👍👍😉😉
I got a CBN wheel for my grinder this Christmas, very pleased with it so far!
I have gained yet more knowledge. Always interesting and informative, thanks again for your continued great content.
Ken at Woodturners wonders is a great guy to talk to. CBN wheels changed the game on turning tools. I use an1800rpm industrial 3ph 8" grinder with a VFD and I can change speeds and reverse the grinder. A whole new world. HNY!👍🏻👍🏻
Most of this video made me think of the Sicilian in The Prince Bride trying to figure out which cup had the poison.
Have a wonderful 2022 with great health and success!
Thank you James for another outstanding tutorial.
Thanks for great video that gives the necessary information clearly. 😊
Heavy emphasis on CBN wheels are for 'hardened' metals only! The life of a CBN wheel, for production work is about 5 years. I did take an old worn out one and purposely loaded it up with soft steel, aluminum, brass and copper. After a month of sharpening my lathe scrapers on it, the colors from the softer metals was gone. Lapping fluid can be applied to the bevel of the tool you are sharpening, and it can help lift the soft metal off of your grinding wheels. If you apply it directly to the wheel, you will get sprayed, and I found out the hard way..... They do sell very hard aluminum oxide sticks to also do the same thing. Diamond wheels on a Tormek or the various clones of it, can last pretty much forever. I use the CBN wheels from D Way since the owners are personal friends. I do like the heavier steel wheels, but you have to have a grinder that will drive them, 1/2 hp isn't enough.
Thanks for sharing with us James enjoy seeing you use the different sharpening systems. Stay safe, Fred
I just got cbn wheels for my work sharp from wood turning wonders based on your previous recommendation. They were easy to work with and the wheels are wonderful. Thanks for the tip. You’re always on target.
As always, great content with excellent pacing and delivery. Good level of detail without any pedantic tone Thanks!
I like that echoey crystal sound whenever you pick up the CBN block.
People sharpening their tools like a pro, and here is me using dull tools, brute force, and swear words to get the job done.
EXCELLENT info 👌 James. Just a suggestion - when you are breaking it down to the short strokes please list as you are talking. It doubles the delivery.
Otherwise, an excellent, informative video backed with science and an experienced opinion that we have all come to highly value. Thanks 😊
I have a 180 grit cbn wheel (from Ken) on my slow speed grinder that I use to sharpen my turning tools. Makes a world of difference in turning over the old stone wheels.
I’m not even a woodworker but I love these videos
Really interesting indeed! Thanks, James! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Great one James. Really appreciate this info, was not up to speed on CBN stones or wheels.
Fascinating and useful information. Thanks, James.
I recently purchased the Trend 300/1000 grit diamond plate that you like to use. I'm still getting used to it. At the moment, it's the only diamond plate that I own. I'm glad I bought it and your tutorials helped me make that decision. Although, I still don't know how to use the eraser that cam with it.
The eraser is used to clean the stone when it gets a little clogged with metal dust. Just rub it on the surface. It will be shiny and new again.
@@StumpyNubs I wondered if that's that way it was, but wasn't sure. Thanks James.
This reminds me of the Iocane Powder scene in The Princess Bride... "I clearly can't choose the diamond sharpener in front of you!"
Every time I see you use that Tormek, I am that much closer to giving in and buying one...
Do it! I have had my Tormek for close to 15 years. It has been one of my best tool purchases. (It now has a CBN wheel on it from Ken Rizza at WoodTurners Wonders. Much faster and less messy than the original wheel.)
@@DKWalser I'm sure I will at some point once my workshop finally gets built and I have some space. For now I make do with a Veritas sharpening jig and diamond plates, it works well enough.
FWIW I used to work at a place that did a lot of gear grinding and we used the CBN wheels for every grinding operation.
You are quite a knowledgeable fellow.
Thanks for the info - again.👍👍
I always wondered why I rarely see a diamond grinding wheel. Now I know why!
Very informative. Thanks for explaining the benefits of the 2, however I do prefer the longevity and what many pro old tradesmen are using for a long time diamonds do win in my opinion.
I really enjoy these educational videos. I had no idea, but l do now.
Great video explaining the difference between CBN and DIAMOND grinding wheels. So, my application is sharpening non-carbide chainsaw chain. Which is better here? Price is about the same, so thought diamond would be better. Guessing you will say CBN is better here due to lower grind temps at the higher grind speeds? If so, can you please recommend a supplier of CBN grind wheels for my chainsaw grinder? Thanks again for the good explanation!
One place I find diamond and Cbn won't replace in sharpening is when you want that mirror edge. I know the diamond films can do it or CBN pastes on strops. But there's something about a chosera whetstone polished edge it always comes out nicer and better.
Great video though, lots of great points for those that don't know a lot about sharpening yet or just getting into it.
I have a bit of each, diamond, CBN and chosera.
I grind with CBN to fix or reshape an edge. I sharpen with fine grit diamonds (either on the Tormek or by hand). Then I strop on leather with paste. I don't believe CBN or Diamonds are really intended to give you a mirror edge on their own.
@@StumpyNubs sort of. When you consider some offer 1500-1800 grit, where a 1800grit chosera is pretty nicely polished there. Obviously going higher can get better.
Those stropping films you can get to put on glass or granite are diamond based usually. And I have Cbn pastes to put on leather strop that can give a mirror edge.
Both can do it. It's just a nicer edge with chosera.
Maybe looking at it more from the knife world with sharpening systems only using diamond stones and getting to a mirror finish. It's doable just not as nice.
@@JoeC92 There's a TH-cam channel (out of Japan?) where the presenter hand sharpens knives. He works through a range of 5 or 6 grits. The finest is something astronomical - like 6000. It's overkill until he slices loosely held sheets of paper with nearly zero force. The edge is likely sharper than a surgeon's diamond scalpel.
@@gregparrott virtuovice or something like that if that's who you mean. I know exactly who you're talking about. I learned a lot about hand sharpening from him.
He's a big fan of bark River knives
Highest grip I have is 8000. On a Japanese style kitchen knife it finishes it off with an incredible edge.
@@gregparrott I finish my straight razors with a shapton 30,000 so 6000 is a bit rough 🙂
Again a valuable lesson 👍
Great information James. Thanks as usual.
Professor Hamilton strikes again cheers mate
I agree with letting the diamonds do the work with light pressure . They have a nice feel imo . Trying some Venev 400/800 so far and a 150/240 is coming but it’s not an “f” ursa stone . The 400/800 Venev ursa did more of a polish finish with finer scratched than the 600 grit diamond . Seemed to work well though .
Very informative. Thanks James.
Great information! Thanks, James!
You mention low speed grinders and sharpeners - what RPM's are appropriate?
Examples: My Vertical Sharpener turns at 160 rpm (the supply motor is 3450 rpm) and my Horizontal Sharpener (an older Woodcraft) uses a 7" stone at 420 RPM - both are water-emersion. I have 400, 600, 800 grit abrasive stones as well as an assortment of water stones and Diamond plates for manual work.
I like the concept of CBN stones as they seem low maintenance - can these be used as water-bath stones??
Finally, what are your thoughts for belt grinders for sharpening?? Belt Width?? Belt Length?? Abrasive Materials and Grits??
Many thanks for sharing your knowledge and research!!
-Slow speed grinders are about 1750 RPM.
-You can use CBN in water if you add an anti-corrosion treatment (same as with diamond wheels.)
-I don't sharpen with belt grinders, personally.
It's worth pointing out that grinding carbide produces a dust that is hazardous so extraction and a respirator should be used.
It would be interesting to try to quantify how much pressure is too much on a diamond plate. Are we talking some but don't push really hard or are we talking enough to keep it in contact but no more?
If your fingertips are turning white, you are pressing too hard.
@@StumpyNubs Thanks James. So fairly light but not just in-contact with no pressure? Sorry, I'm confusing fingernails starting to turn white (very gentle pressure) with finger tips (harder to see but a bit more pressure). Reason I'm keen to get it right is that I suspect I've probably damaged some early cheap plates and am keen not to repeat on better ones......and I should have followed your advise and gone for the Narex chisels and not the red/yellow Irwin Marple that need sooooo much work to make the back flat (and I mean the tip, I'm not confusing a hollow ground back).
Excellent. Thank you.
You should make a tutorial on how to break in new diamond stones. I have a brand new set that I intend to break in with an old junky kitchen knife, but not entirely sure how I’ll know when the stones are broken in properly.
th-cam.com/video/Hjq-iI1ZuQI/w-d-xo.html
Where the heck do you learn all this stuff, I have taken your advice many times and it has proved to be spot on
Great video. Happy new year.
Great video. Good info.
Great informative video . Thanks !
Awesome breakdown! I’ve been wondering what the benefits of the CBN wheels are vs diamond.
CBN on your worksharpe 🤔great idea.
In addition to the carbon absorption problem with grinding iron at high speed, diamonds soften much more with heat compared to cBN which greatly closes the hardness gap.
Seconding the recommendation for Woodturners Wonders. Great service and high quality products. So helpful if not sure which product is best for you too.
I have nothing to say really, but I appreciate your content, and wish to help with the yt-algorithms.
Great numbers on heat transferred!
I bought a CBN wheel for sharpening my lathe tools. Love it!. One of the warnings with the wheel I bought was to use it to sharpen High Speed Steel only. Carbon steel would gum it up like aluminum on a standard wheel. True or false? Does anyone have a definite answer?
Never dared risk it myself. Also interested in the answer
The danger with gumming up abrasive wheels is expanding the wheel with that heated material making it explode. I don’t think there is a risk with these wheel as it is metal wheel with the abrasives applied to the exterior only.
Soft steel will clog up the grit and ruin the wheel. I use a regular old grinding wheel for lawnmower blades, etc. CBN is for hardened tool steel. That said, woodturnerswonders.com has a product called a Wonderstick that they say will prevent a CBN wheel from clogging (I think). You should check it out.
Sorry to say this but it is always a struggle for me to sharpen my tools. But I know it’s a must
I've watched countless videos and tried the techniques, but have moderate success. 🙄
@@LongGun223 agree totally
lol i used to think the same thing and i just ended up buying 5 bucks worth of crappy chisels and plane irons and just practiced until i got the hang of it. that's all it is "just practice" lol good luck. dont give up.
@@bseant420 thanks , will keep sharp 😀
Uou, nice and profi explanation! Thanks
Now we just need to wait for Lonsdaleite stones. Maybe those will be better.
even though we won't agree on everything you say, great post. Above all, completely unagitated and clearly formulated. I am totally committed to CBN as I cannot dictate or control the pressure my customers use when grinding. Therefore, CBN wheels and plates are the better choice for me.
Good info, thanks James!
Always good info
Thanks for the info!!!!!😎👍
I think its a misunderstanding of comfort and ease, that makes people think diamond stones are the end all be all, alternative to sharpening.
I went through...10? 20? who knows how many... they dont last nearly as long as synthetic's or natural stones, nor are they more powerful/faster.
but I will say from experience an average sharpener will not be able to easily acquire a "Good" set of either natural or synthetic stones, its a field of study that takes some years or luck
and the market is highly saturated with crappy synthetics stones and mystery natural stones.
too hard, too soft, hard/soft certain spots, abrasive particles too soft.
but
interesting, these diamond/CBN grinding wheels, would love to try those out, maybe one day if they become affordable, don't know if I'm being silly or not but stone grinding wheels kinda scare me...
I'm probably lucky enough to survive it exploding but def will lose an eye or parts of my face.
This is very helpful info!
Do you recommend CBN engagement rings?
Thank you
Thanks, I didn't know a diamond wheel could be ruined by running it too fast and heating it up
i think you meant to say make a course stone work like a finer stone. when the diamond plates wear out. which is true. same goes for diamond films. I only use CBN for powered grinding, that is where it has the clear advantage. aside from this, it's always diamonds.
I may get some for my Work Sharp 3000.
Did you mention high speed steel? I only use my cbn wheels for that and diamond stones for carbon!
HSS is hardened steel and is compatible with either diamonds or CBN.
Great info....thanks....:)
Does one kind have a more consistent grit size than the other? I have an "extra extra fine" diamond stone that has much larger chunks than the stated grit, making it basically useless. I read, is that's just a limitation of sizing diamond grit.
A quality stone should have consistent grit. While there may be some finer dust in there, there should be no larger chunks than the grit demands.
It used to take me 8 hours to re grind an old chisel until Stumpy did a video in 2018 on CBN.
Now I can do a chisel in minutes.
Is there a way of telling if a diamond stone is "blunt"? The only diamond stone I have came from a tool sale and looked well used. Seems to work ok, but I'm not sure if it is doing a good or bad job.
With the boron nitride stuff you can get James Earl Jones to walk by, point to it, and say "*This* is CBN." Diamond can't do that.
I legitimately only get this joke because of the Simpsons
A question: I use a honing guide which has a brass roller (some brands of guide use a steel roller) that runs on the surface of my stone. Will this roller damage the diamond or CBN hand sharpening plates?
No
I never thought about none of them
Last year I purchased the cbn wheels you recommend for sharpening chisels on my work sharp. They warn you that the finer cbn wheels can become clogged, my words not theirs, if you use too much pressure. I loved the wheels but trashed the finer grits in no time at all. It was totally my fault. Can you work with the supplier to produce a video instructing how to use the finer wheels correctly so no one else ends up with a round paper weight. Thank you.
Hmmmm... I haven't had any issues with mine. I would call woodturnerswonders.com and ask to speak to Ken. Ask him about their wonder stick.
@@StumpyNubs It does give a written warning and mentions the use of the stick on the web page but I missed this in my excitement. As it is obviously an issue I thought it might be worth discussing. Happy New Year Sir.
Awsome!
The question I have is, when I use my wood carving tools, I usually polish them on a cotton wheel with rouge. Should I use the same approach for knife sharpening? It has never failed me in 35 years of wood carving as a hobby. Yet I only recently thought about trying it on my straight blade high carbon steel knife.
As you know, wood carving tools must be RAZOR sharp. Anything that works for them will surely work for a knife, in my opinion.
@@StumpyNubs I learned wood carving and antique furniture reproduction from a Welshman many years ago. He was a very calm fellow until he saw me with a spoon-bit gouge in one hand and a sharpening stone in the other.
He literally shrieked then said, "Carving tools are polished, never sharpened." It is a lesson I never forgot.
I love your site and I've learned a lot from your videos. I did some spindle turning many years ago (made a couple chess sets) and now I'm about to get back into wood turning, and probably some bowl turning. I need some advice on what I should get in the way of sharpening apparatus for sharpening HSS bowl gouges. I'm looking at the Tormek T800, and the SVD 186R gouge jig, but wondering if the included stone is what I need, or if I need to consider a diamond stone. I'm also unclear on whether the included stone is CBN or something else. I question whether it's smart to use the included tool to adjust the grit from 200 to 1000, because I suppose going back and forth would wear the stone prematurely. Do people typically have different stones and routinely change them? Or is initial grinding done at 200 grit, then convert the stone to 1000 grit thereafter. I'm a bit confused and don't want to spend buy something if it's not what I need. Thanks for any advice.
The regular stone (it is a manmade water stone, not CBN) works perfectly well. Using the stone grater to change the grit doesn't wear it much at all. It mostly burnishes the surface. You can do it as often as you like, with as much pressure as you like and it will last for many years, perhaps decades in a hobby-level shop. The diamond wheels are extremely convenient (and the coarse one is really nice for excess grinding), but for day to day use you will be very happy with the stock wheel.
Is occasional use of CBN on mild steel OK? I use my coarse aluminum oxide wheel for deburring and minor shaping of mild steel, would that damage a CBN wheel?
No..you will destroy the wheel by plugging it up.
WoodTurnerswonders.com has a lubricant called "Wonderstick" that they say may solve that problem. I only use mine for hardened steel. If I want to grind a lawnmower blade, that's what the cheap wheels are for.
@@StumpyNubs even the wonderstick wont save a CBN wheel plugged up with mild steel.😃
Mild steel isn't that great on aluminum oxide either, so I'm not surprised by your answers. I should use my belt sander instead. Just lazy.
@@StumpyNubs I talked with Ken - he’s GREAT - he said to avoid soft steel as it clogs the CBN. He mentioned PB Blaster and wire brush to unclog … also check his video on Sllickstick and grinding copper.
Very interesting. But I am left with questions: In some instances, your grinder is kept wet, while in others, it's dry and sparks are flying. What are the guidelines for lubrication? Is it just that diamond wheels are used wet, while CBN wheels run dry? Also, is water the lubricant, or is an additive used?
The water cools the tool, and keeps the metal dust out of the air. Some systems (like the Tormek) have that feature. Most others do not. You can dry sharpen with both diamonds and CBN, but the benefits of water are nice.
@@StumpyNubs Thanks! Inclusion of water for cooling seems like a logical choice, both to keep the workpiece cool as well as prolong the life of the abrasive.
What grit would suggest for a diamond wheel on the tormek. I have a set of diamond plates so the wheel would be used for redoing a primary bevel and flattening backs. Mostly chisels and plane irons?
If you are planning to use it for heavier grinding and not honing, get the coarse wheel. I think it's 360.
@@StumpyNubs Thanks, I’ve been watching your videos for ten years and early ones were good, I liked the humor, but the current ones are better.
Given what you'll be using the wheel for, I would go with the 600 grit diamond wheel. For most of your sharpening needs, it will do all you need. And, if you use the honing wheel, you may not need to use your bench stones at all. But, if you're going to use a bench stone to put on a secondary (or even a tertiary) bevel, there would be no need to hone the primary bevel produced by the 600 grit wheel.
Get a 2x72 grinder and a bunch of belts including ceramic and a strop belt. You change belts by pulling down the tensioner wheel, so it's trivial to do. You can even build one yourself for the price of a Tormach. Now you have a flat surface that is big enough to lap the sole of a #4 plane and can do flat or concave.
Where can I purchase cbn stones?
hello James, well said and easily understood. If I may ask an auxiliary question regarding CBN wheels. What is the optimum shaft speed for an 8” can wheel? I have two grinders 2800 rpm & 1400 rpm so I am undecided which to use. I have the capacity to build a variable speed control unit, but lack the ultimate speed team for. Thanks
Most slow speed grinders used for sharpening are about 1750 RPM.
How much pressure will damage a diamond surface?
If your fingertips are turning all white, you are pushing too hard.
How much pressure would you recommend for sharpening
If your fingertips are turning white, you're pressing too hard