I've had some really wild quality shifts from set to set lately, sometimes even pack to pack within the same set. Everything from overly dark and shiny, to overly gritty and washed out. It really sucks that they can't just lock a consistent production run down lately.
Totally agree here. Most modern sets tend to have a very low quality control. Even premium sets. I will say that MH3 has actually surprised me in terms of quality, but that's just my experience so far. Hopefully they can bring it back to a consistent standard in the future.
At this point, if I accidentally buy a convincing fake I don’t really care. I’ve bought packs and precons from WotC that all feel and look wildly different right out of the box. A lot of counterfeits are genuinely better quality than cards straight from the manufacturer lol. They’re just going to get sleeved upped and shuffled into a deck to play. They’re not holy relics. We’re probably at the peak of an era where people look at these things as treasures worth hundreds of dollars per card.
Counterfeiters don't have to get better. They just have to wait for Wizard's to get worse. Under Hasbro's instruction, time is on the bootlegger's side.
For weeks, I've been worrying about the last booster box I got because of the colouring and card differences. I contacted the card store I got and they showed it was legit purchases. Thank you for mentioning differences in where cards are printer. They was printed in Japan and my previous purchase of a bundle was Belgium.
Yup, your box of cards is ok! Each printer makes the cards slightly different and each set can have variations! Normally I prefer foils printed in Japan, but for Modern Horizons 3 for instance, I find the USA printed foils are much nicer and don't curl as much. If you buy a box from a reputable store, you're probably ok :)
WRT the green dot test, some of my legitimate Caverns of Ixalan cards (straight from a booster box) are closer to the "fake" cards than the real ones. I think we're very close to Wizards having to put an NFC tag in legitimate rares/mythics to avoid fakes.
I love the way that people say "I haven't seen x or y totally reproduced in a fake card". Let's be honest, if people truly had been able to fake a card, you wouldn't know if x or y had been reproduced because you'd think it were real.
True, but I think at that point, Wizards might introduce an additional measure, just like they did with the stamp when the new series of counterfeits showed up around 2012/2013 that started looking very good. Most players are not bringing a loupe to FNM when they trade, so the stamp was an extra/easy measure to determine legitimacy. The best, if you can call it that, aspect of the counterfeits is that they are easily accessible and do not conceal additional information. You can bet Wizards probably makes regular orders from these businesses to determine the stage of replication, just like I can place an order from Shenzen today and determine from the newest batch, how good they are. Once they figure out the green dot and stamp, I'm betting Wizards does something new. It's always been a lock and key race. I appreciate your thoughts on this though, especially with collectibles, it's a really interesting topic!
The real counterfeiters wouldn't be selling on these platforms as counterfeits. They'd be selling as real cards on real platforms....because they could, and the idea that wizards would change something......if they didn't know (and how could they if it were a perfect copy), they wouldn't change, and if somehow they did know that perfect copies are going around and change something, they wouldn't tell us because that would reduce customer confidence; imagine the kind of statement they'd have to make: "ladies and gentlemen of the MTG community, everything after set x is safe and unforgeable, but everything before and including set x is forgeable and we know they exist, but we don't know how many and even if we knew, we could never find them......sorry"@@themagicbloom
I bought a draft box of Wilds of Eldraine from Amazon and I felt they were really weird. The first thing that stuck me was how fragile the packs were. Breaking apart whilst opening them at the top. Felt strange and more plastic-y. Then I noticed the smell of the cards that smelled very strange. Like cleenex or very strong chemical smell. Then the cards felt a little rough on the sides, a little bit like sandpaper but very light, like a bit rough. I feel they are fake but I gotta buy one of those magnifiers to make sure I guess
If you bought a box and it was sealed with the Wizards branding wrap it's very unlikely that the cards are actually fake. Some packs open easily, others open with more force. And the card texture can feel weird, but it's only due to variation in factories and quality these days. I wouldn't worry too much about it especially if it had the Wizards branding wrap around the box. If I can answer anymore questions to help I am happy to. Thanks!
Comparing some of the newer cards, their red dots are so faint almost impossible to notice. (maybe is it just me idk) but like unique reprints like the otj 'breaking news' cards look scarrily not the same as the usual. makes me think twice if its real or fake
I agree, the red dots on some of the newer cards can be very faint. Sometimes I see only a small triangle made of three dots instead of the 'L', but I wouldn't worry too much about that. Having them, and in the correct configuration is a good start. Always do multiple tests.
Just of note I got cards that I know are 100% real, that don't have the red dots on the green mana symbol. (how I know? reputable vendor, not LGS, an actual reseller, sealed booster box, I opened myself. Had multiple cards from that box sold and passed auth tests in multiple countries) of note the printing was for a EU language
Yeah, I wanted to say this too. Occasionally a card won't have the full "L". Vampiric Tutor from Visions is actually a great example of this if you need a reference 👍
I would recommend that anyone do multiple types of verification. As time has shown, looking for one type alone is no good. For instance, the black text printing on the front has become very very good and sharp, despite it always being a problem in the past. I wish I had more EU printed cards though as examples. :)
Could you elaborate on why the light test is no longer a viable option? I've been getting a number of 'off' cards and using your formula (green dots, hologram etc) give me an overall impression that they are definitely fake - the light test however also seemed to ring true still - the fake cards let thru none or very little light or an orangey hue whilst all my legit cards from new and old sets let thru a very clear blue light.
I just haven't had luck with it being reliable. There are just too many different between set printing and origins that the light always looks weird to me. For old cards, why not add it to the list of tests, but for newer, I almost never do it if I'm checking the other aspects I mention in the video. Do many tests whenever possible! Thanks for your question!
Considering how much effort went into putting this video together I think it was really unfortunate you didn't put together side by side comparisons showing your fake compared to what is legit with appropriate labeling for each. One thing that will really help you as a creator is to try and think what you know really well that your audience (or even some in your audience) probably will not know. For example in this case you know what all these things you are referring to look like so it doesn't seem important to show the comparisons because you can just verbally reference them and follow the points easily. But people who don't know what those things look like will feel like they didn't get a very clear picture of what you are saying. Anyways, it seems your video is getting recommended so congratulations on what appears to be one of your first channel growth surges. I think you already have more quality than your subs indicates, but it never hurts to up the ante and push for more. Best of luck.
Scanning forward I see you did have some of these later. So my bad on that, but my point still stands, I got frustrated and wrote the above comment after 4 minutes and many will stop watching before that.
Get a loop, once you check out a few types of fakes they are pretty easy to spot. Shop owners SHOULD get to know this. That said the quality of reals is all over the place right now, alot of misprints, bad/missing holostamps or faded (end of print run) cards in packs. Some things I would have said were fake because of color etc in past are real now lol
Several of the tests you list as not indicative are effective on very old cards that were all printed in the same facility, for example the 'four horsemen' sets all had very small print runs from a single printer, so all the rosette patterns and card stock tests should match up. These became ineffective later on, when WotC started outsourcing the printing process to multiple printers, introducing more variance in processes and materials.
Good question! Outside of the colors in the dot, checking the shape of the green dot outline and the other methods I mentioned like the 'H' and double deckmaster border are good indicators I have found.
Depends on how you view quality, but I would say fakes tend to be consistent in their quality since the idea is to fool the receiver. You don't want someone looking too close at a smudge or double printing/ light printing or other type of misprint.
Very good point! I didn't even think of those! I'll have to add that to a part 2 video, but in general, you'll have to put more faith in the hard black lines and the foil stamp. The foil stamp for rares on double sided cards still has the very tight 'wizards' text repeated over and over.
I've had a couple cards get rejected on TCGplayer because they were fake, but I had no idea. I only recently started trying to look into this, is it worth it to get a loupe and scale and all if I'm not dealing with cards over like $50 or $100 or something?
I wouldn't worry about a scale, but each person has their own preference. I use a 5x-15x loupe and it works just fine for in-person verification. Everyone is different, but the tests I mention (green dot, hard/wobbly lines on back, and general black printing on face of card) are usually enough for me. Depending on your volume of cards, I would try to loupe anything over 5 dollars, but it's up to you. Most good proxies cost at least ~5 dollars to print per card, so most people will not be paying to proxy low value cards. Good questions!
Hi! I'd like to know your opinion about the light test. If one can barely see any light through the card even from the strong flashlight, is that an indication of card being fake?
I don't put much faith in the light test. It varies far too much especially with so many different printing locations. I might have to do a follow up to this video with more details around the different tests.
This is a good question. Depends on how 'misprinted' the card is. I'll look through my collection and make this part of a follow up video, but in general, counterfeiters don't want to make misprints since it automatically draws closer scrutiny. They want their cards to look as good as possible to prevent a second look. In some ways, counterfeiters do a good job of quality control while very obvious misprints are likely real cards. I'd love to talk more about this, good question!
I would love to know why WoC seems to do absolutely nothing about the dozens of sites that sell fake magic cards but will hire the pinkertons to kick in the door of someone who got shipped cards before release day.
Good question! I don't have a gram scale and it's difficult to bring to trading events, so I didn't include it, but if you have one, absolutely add it in to your testing! Great idea.
*Bootleggers watching this video for educational purposes* - "Ok thank you so much kind person, we will improve upon our fake cards from these lessons learned"
These kinds of things will always be a lock and key race. It happens. The trick isn't to make a perfect clone of the product, but make it close enough that the majority of players won't know to look closer for the minute differences. The fake I received in the video is very, very good unless you looked closer that extra 10%.
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I've had some really wild quality shifts from set to set lately, sometimes even pack to pack within the same set. Everything from overly dark and shiny, to overly gritty and washed out. It really sucks that they can't just lock a consistent production run down lately.
Totally agree here. Most modern sets tend to have a very low quality control. Even premium sets. I will say that MH3 has actually surprised me in terms of quality, but that's just my experience so far. Hopefully they can bring it back to a consistent standard in the future.
At this point, if I accidentally buy a convincing fake I don’t really care. I’ve bought packs and precons from WotC that all feel and look wildly different right out of the box. A lot of counterfeits are genuinely better quality than cards straight from the manufacturer lol. They’re just going to get sleeved upped and shuffled into a deck to play. They’re not holy relics. We’re probably at the peak of an era where people look at these things as treasures worth hundreds of dollars per card.
Counterfeiters don't have to get better. They just have to wait for Wizard's to get worse. Under Hasbro's instruction, time is on the bootlegger's side.
For weeks, I've been worrying about the last booster box I got because of the colouring and card differences. I contacted the card store I got and they showed it was legit purchases.
Thank you for mentioning differences in where cards are printer. They was printed in Japan and my previous purchase of a bundle was Belgium.
Yup, your box of cards is ok! Each printer makes the cards slightly different and each set can have variations! Normally I prefer foils printed in Japan, but for Modern Horizons 3 for instance, I find the USA printed foils are much nicer and don't curl as much. If you buy a box from a reputable store, you're probably ok :)
Excellent video. Learned some new things beyond green dot test. Much appreciated.
Glad I could help. It seems others have a lot of questions about methods so I may do a follow up video!
WRT the green dot test, some of my legitimate Caverns of Ixalan cards (straight from a booster box) are closer to the "fake" cards than the real ones. I think we're very close to Wizards having to put an NFC tag in legitimate rares/mythics to avoid fakes.
Yep, always use multiple forms of verification for best results!
I love the way that people say "I haven't seen x or y totally reproduced in a fake card". Let's be honest, if people truly had been able to fake a card, you wouldn't know if x or y had been reproduced because you'd think it were real.
True, but I think at that point, Wizards might introduce an additional measure, just like they did with the stamp when the new series of counterfeits showed up around 2012/2013 that started looking very good. Most players are not bringing a loupe to FNM when they trade, so the stamp was an extra/easy measure to determine legitimacy. The best, if you can call it that, aspect of the counterfeits is that they are easily accessible and do not conceal additional information. You can bet Wizards probably makes regular orders from these businesses to determine the stage of replication, just like I can place an order from Shenzen today and determine from the newest batch, how good they are. Once they figure out the green dot and stamp, I'm betting Wizards does something new. It's always been a lock and key race. I appreciate your thoughts on this though, especially with collectibles, it's a really interesting topic!
The real counterfeiters wouldn't be selling on these platforms as counterfeits. They'd be selling as real cards on real platforms....because they could, and the idea that wizards would change something......if they didn't know (and how could they if it were a perfect copy), they wouldn't change, and if somehow they did know that perfect copies are going around and change something, they wouldn't tell us because that would reduce customer confidence; imagine the kind of statement they'd have to make: "ladies and gentlemen of the MTG community, everything after set x is safe and unforgeable, but everything before and including set x is forgeable and we know they exist, but we don't know how many and even if we knew, we could never find them......sorry"@@themagicbloom
Great video, thanks!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching.
I bought a draft box of Wilds of Eldraine from Amazon and I felt they were really weird. The first thing that stuck me was how fragile the packs were. Breaking apart whilst opening them at the top. Felt strange and more plastic-y. Then I noticed the smell of the cards that smelled very strange. Like cleenex or very strong chemical smell. Then the cards felt a little rough on the sides, a little bit like sandpaper but very light, like a bit rough.
I feel they are fake but I gotta buy one of those magnifiers to make sure I guess
If you bought a box and it was sealed with the Wizards branding wrap it's very unlikely that the cards are actually fake. Some packs open easily, others open with more force. And the card texture can feel weird, but it's only due to variation in factories and quality these days. I wouldn't worry too much about it especially if it had the Wizards branding wrap around the box. If I can answer anymore questions to help I am happy to. Thanks!
Truly appreciate the video! Thank you for the clear examples. Short and sweet, just a great summary.
And I really appreciate the feedback and kindness! Thanks so much!
Comparing some of the newer cards, their red dots are so faint almost impossible to notice. (maybe is it just me idk) but like unique reprints like the otj 'breaking news' cards look scarrily not the same as the usual. makes me think twice if its real or fake
I agree, the red dots on some of the newer cards can be very faint. Sometimes I see only a small triangle made of three dots instead of the 'L', but I wouldn't worry too much about that. Having them, and in the correct configuration is a good start. Always do multiple tests.
Just of note I got cards that I know are 100% real, that don't have the red dots on the green mana symbol.
(how I know? reputable vendor, not LGS, an actual reseller, sealed booster box, I opened myself. Had multiple cards from that box sold and passed auth tests in multiple countries)
of note the printing was for a EU language
Yeah, I wanted to say this too. Occasionally a card won't have the full "L". Vampiric Tutor from Visions is actually a great example of this if you need a reference 👍
True! It won't always be a complete 2x3 set of dots. I've seen really faint 2x2 or 3 dots total. Why we need to do multiple types of verification!
I would recommend that anyone do multiple types of verification. As time has shown, looking for one type alone is no good. For instance, the black text printing on the front has become very very good and sharp, despite it always being a problem in the past. I wish I had more EU printed cards though as examples. :)
Love your videos, super high quality!!
Thank you so much! I really appreciate the kindness. Viewers like you encourage me to keep making videos in my off time.
Could you elaborate on why the light test is no longer a viable option? I've been getting a number of 'off' cards and using your formula (green dots, hologram etc) give me an overall impression that they are definitely fake - the light test however also seemed to ring true still - the fake cards let thru none or very little light or an orangey hue whilst all my legit cards from new and old sets let thru a very clear blue light.
I just haven't had luck with it being reliable. There are just too many different between set printing and origins that the light always looks weird to me. For old cards, why not add it to the list of tests, but for newer, I almost never do it if I'm checking the other aspects I mention in the video. Do many tests whenever possible! Thanks for your question!
Considering how much effort went into putting this video together I think it was really unfortunate you didn't put together side by side comparisons showing your fake compared to what is legit with appropriate labeling for each.
One thing that will really help you as a creator is to try and think what you know really well that your audience (or even some in your audience) probably will not know. For example in this case you know what all these things you are referring to look like so it doesn't seem important to show the comparisons because you can just verbally reference them and follow the points easily. But people who don't know what those things look like will feel like they didn't get a very clear picture of what you are saying.
Anyways, it seems your video is getting recommended so congratulations on what appears to be one of your first channel growth surges. I think you already have more quality than your subs indicates, but it never hurts to up the ante and push for more. Best of luck.
Scanning forward I see you did have some of these later. So my bad on that, but my point still stands, I got frustrated and wrote the above comment after 4 minutes and many will stop watching before that.
Get a loop, once you check out a few types of fakes they are pretty easy to spot. Shop owners SHOULD get to know this. That said the quality of reals is all over the place right now, alot of misprints, bad/missing holostamps or faded (end of print run) cards in packs. Some things I would have said were fake because of color etc in past are real now lol
Yep, loupe is the way to go for fast on-hand verification.
Several of the tests you list as not indicative are effective on very old cards that were all printed in the same facility, for example the 'four horsemen' sets all had very small print runs from a single printer, so all the rosette patterns and card stock tests should match up. These became ineffective later on, when WotC started outsourcing the printing process to multiple printers, introducing more variance in processes and materials.
Proxies for life! 😂
Yeah, as long as they're not sold as real cards :/
Proxy is fine, Counterfeits are not.
This is great info, but I'm color blind, so green and red are the same color in my eyes. Are there other ways to check?
Good question! Outside of the colors in the dot, checking the shape of the green dot outline and the other methods I mentioned like the 'H' and double deckmaster border are good indicators I have found.
Proxy cards have become either indistinguishable or in many cases better quality than authentic.
Depends on how you view quality, but I would say fakes tend to be consistent in their quality since the idea is to fool the receiver. You don't want someone looking too close at a smudge or double printing/ light printing or other type of misprint.
Hi , thank you for the video, it has been extremely helpful. Does anyone know what to look out for in double sided cards ?
Very good point! I didn't even think of those! I'll have to add that to a part 2 video, but in general, you'll have to put more faith in the hard black lines and the foil stamp. The foil stamp for rares on double sided cards still has the very tight 'wizards' text repeated over and over.
I've had a couple cards get rejected on TCGplayer because they were fake, but I had no idea. I only recently started trying to look into this, is it worth it to get a loupe and scale and all if I'm not dealing with cards over like $50 or $100 or something?
I wouldn't worry about a scale, but each person has their own preference. I use a 5x-15x loupe and it works just fine for in-person verification. Everyone is different, but the tests I mention (green dot, hard/wobbly lines on back, and general black printing on face of card) are usually enough for me. Depending on your volume of cards, I would try to loupe anything over 5 dollars, but it's up to you. Most good proxies cost at least ~5 dollars to print per card, so most people will not be paying to proxy low value cards. Good questions!
Hi! I'd like to know your opinion about the light test. If one can barely see any light through the card even from the strong flashlight, is that an indication of card being fake?
I don't put much faith in the light test. It varies far too much especially with so many different printing locations. I might have to do a follow up to this video with more details around the different tests.
Weight, light and green dot test, 3 of the most important
Light test no good on Japanese printed cards
All three are not crucial. There are original prints which will not pass these tests, he's just repeating popular misconceptions.
How do you determine counterfeit from simply a misprint or mistake at wizards?
This is a good question. Depends on how 'misprinted' the card is. I'll look through my collection and make this part of a follow up video, but in general, counterfeiters don't want to make misprints since it automatically draws closer scrutiny. They want their cards to look as good as possible to prevent a second look. In some ways, counterfeiters do a good job of quality control while very obvious misprints are likely real cards. I'd love to talk more about this, good question!
@@themagicbloom So shouldn't counterfeiters just make misprints then to fool people?
Sorry, the clear-wobbly-clear-wobbly is for identifying real cards correct?
Good question, yes. The box on the back will have a solid line, wobbly line, solid, wobbly pattern from top to bottom.
@@themagicbloom thanks for clarifying for my brain. 😁
I would love to know why WoC seems to do absolutely nothing about the dozens of sites that sell fake magic cards but will hire the pinkertons to kick in the door of someone who got shipped cards before release day.
What happened with the weight test??
Good question! I don't have a gram scale and it's difficult to bring to trading events, so I didn't include it, but if you have one, absolutely add it in to your testing! Great idea.
A lot of the most recent non-foil fakes pass the weight test nowadays alas.
*Bootleggers watching this video for educational purposes*
- "Ok thank you so much kind person, we will improve upon our fake cards from these lessons learned"
These kinds of things will always be a lock and key race. It happens. The trick isn't to make a perfect clone of the product, but make it close enough that the majority of players won't know to look closer for the minute differences. The fake I received in the video is very, very good unless you looked closer that extra 10%.