I'm against making something lower quality for some abstract concept of 'cred.' I always prefered Nevermind's production over In Utero, even though I'll admit In Utero is the superior record.
@@MakeTheMusicYou’ve gotta admit though, hearing 'In Utero’ but mirroring the production and mix quality, the polish of Nevermind would be an amazing listening experience.
The bass not being muddied out is what makes Andy a clear winner for me, Krist is the glue for Nirvana especially in songs like On A Plain and Lounge Act
About the snare sound, I've read somewhere Andy Wallace saying he only added a sample for some kind of gunshot-like reverb after the initial hit, but what you hear there is 100% real. He said "you're actually hearing Dave's snare".
Really cool analysis! Wallace's mix is definitely the stronger of the two in my opinion. Much better separation in terms of the instruments and nothing seems to be fighting for space, whereas Vig's mix feels very crowded and thick despite the wide separation on the guitar tracks. I do feel that Wallace's mix in "CAYA" loses some nuance; the ghost notes on Dave's snare during the verses are barely audible in the Wallace mix but you very clearly hear them in the Vig mix. That said, in Vig's "SLTS" mix, the kick drum gets buried amidst the din, and the extremely gated snare is the antithesis of nuance. When I listen to Vig's Devonshire mix, I enjoy it but feel fatigued afterwards; Wallace's mix is definitely the one to ingest if you don't want to feel like taking an antacid and a nap afterward.
I like the Butch Vig mix more. It feels more like Killing Joke almost, something more old school, darker, his voice is more present, the energy is just harder. Butch Vig wins IMO. I think some, not all, but some of peoples opinion on this has to do with just plain nostalgia and the fact that so much music evolved around this one record…
The way this album was recorded and mixed was a vital part of its commercial success. Similarly, the way In Utero was recorded contributed to its lack of commercial success (particularly pre April 8, 1994 - sales went up for all Nirvana records afterwards, yet Nevermind has been the bestseller ever since). "The market" has always liked Nevermind better than In Utero. If you listen to some of Nirvana's best shows on the 93/94 tour, you get a chance to hear the songs of both Nevermind as well as In Utero in a level playing field. The In Utero songs in that level playing field are, in my opinion, as strong as the Nevermind songs. Cobain's ego, and giving to much importance to what other people might think of him, made him go way too extreme with the Steve Albini approach to his music. He made a u-turn on 3 of In Utero's best songs afterwards, when he asked Scott Litt to redo them. Would have loved to hear In Utero recorded the Nevermind way. It's what made 99,99999% of the Nirvana fans and listeners hooked on their music.
Apparently there is a Teen Spirit Butch Vig mix and another one called 'The Devonshire mix' . Are both the same? Because when I hear both versions, there are still some differences between them.
@@MakeTheMusic Yeah, they've remastered like every grunge album by now, Alice in chains, Soundgarden, pearl jam, nirvana, eve stone temple pilots. honestly I'm not much of an audiophile myself but this video really helped me see the differences between the mixes, so Id love to see the same style of video for these other mixes and remasters
Yeah, I would love to break down these remasters. I guess they need a find a way for people to re-purchase these albums every 10 years and make some extra cash.
@@MakeTheMusic yeah, that's why I'm always a little skeptical of these rematers, but Spotify always replaces the original songs with them. my dumb ears don't even notice any differences though
Its basically the same! Its not like they made "endless nameless" sound like "polly"! Also the first time you said it, you said "smells like TEAM spirit"! 🤣 Im gonna use that as a title for a song!
Kurdt was full of shit lol. FOR ME the Wallace mix is far superior. To be clear, I think Butch is one of the very best at RECORDING rock music. He's simply awesome at what he does. But the final product that Wallace handed in was the best production I had ever heard at the time. I was a 19yr old musician & Nevermind not only blew my damn mind, but it also forever changed the way that I looked at making music. Nirvana came along and slapped the bleach right out of my teased-up hair!!! 😝
Butch Vig is a producer more than a mixer… too much processing, bass drum unnatural, almost bad processed with a big roaming after the transient… why room on the intro guitar… Vocal processing eliminate what made Kurt’s voice unique on this album… Seems that Wallace mix is closer to the real band’s sound…
But some of those difference could also come from the mastering afterwards, unless you tell me both versions went through the exact same mastering gear and settings
Sorry I didn't realise this was a audio analysis of Skillrex. As you can REALLY hear difference (plays 2 seconds of random sounds) hmmm yes I REALLY can : /
I agree that Butch Vig 's drums don't sound as good. Which is very annoying as I thought, with him being a drummer, that his would have been better. That drum fill you pointed out for having a lack of dynamics sounded like stuff I've done with MY Power Drum Kit in the past. LOL.
It’s funny that you think Vig’s drums are samples, and Wallace’s are not, and Vig’s are gated. You are absolutely backwards. Wallace gates snare, and kicks, and uses samples more so than Vig. Butch Vig is more organic whereas Andy Wallace substitutes for polish, but I did like that you pointed out the fact that you could have it totally backwards. I like Andy Wallace’s version more, because that’s what we heard 1st, but Sir Butch is still a genius, and I would jam it just the same. I’m just being a little critical to your critical listening, so I’m not meaning to be a dick, I’m just saying.
@@MakeTheMusic Yes sir. I do agree Andy’s mix was better, but Kurt would love every minute of this, and then act like we are both posers, and chose wrong. I guess I felt like I had to defend Butch, and I’m the ass for doing it. It’s always good times to go on about good tunes, and the geniuses that did them. I apologize totally. The truth is I only wish I was the caliber of either Andy, or Butch, and maybe someday we both will. I do appreciate your insight. You made a video not me. Good on you boss.
Haha no worries. Nevermind is a kick ass album no matter who mixed it honestly. Butch brought out the best performances from the boys and crafted amazing sounds. Andy took the mix to an amazing level for commercial consumption. I get why people might like the Butch mix too.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 83 วันนี้!! คู่เอก "พันฤทธิ์ vs ซุปเปอร์บอล วันของโอม MBK"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1b4pkKHa_Fk/mqdefault.jpg)
Which one is better? Leave a comment and the reason why!
Andy Wallace mixes feel raw, I would say almost unmixed, but at the same time powerful and clear. Absolute genius
Agreed. Andy's is the best of all worlds.
I'm against making something lower quality for some abstract concept of 'cred.' I always prefered Nevermind's production over In Utero, even though I'll admit In Utero is the superior record.
Agreed! The "In Utero" production is pretty solid as well.
@@MakeTheMusicYou’ve gotta admit though, hearing 'In Utero’ but mirroring the production and mix quality, the polish of Nevermind would be an amazing listening experience.
AW mix just grabs you and takes you places.
It's the mix I heard in 1992 after buying the vinyl and for me it's the only I can listen too.
So true! AW version rocks!
Butch is more the Recording Engineer and Wallace the Mixing Egineer.......both did a great job on this Record
Yes, both did an incredible job! Sounds fantastic.
Andy's mix is way brighter and polished. I love Butch, but Andy can't be beated in this record
Agreed. Andy's is just an incredible mix!
Andy Wallace said in a recent interview there’s no trigger on the drums. Is just Dave Grohl. 🤘🏼
Really? Can you link the interview? I've heard conflicting info for a while!
Andy didn't use a trig to replace the snare, he used a sample into a reverb to add a controlled ambient (in addiction to the sound city room)
@@MakeTheMusic th-cam.com/video/bX6LcB-WObw/w-d-xo.html whole interview's gold but here's the bit. I enjoyed your analysis!
About 12 minutes 24 seconds in that interview is where the question comes up regarding Dave. 👍
He's also never been shy about his use of triggered samples so I believe it.
First mix i ever heard by Andy was The Front which I still play to this day. Been a fan ever since.
The bass not being muddied out is what makes Andy a clear winner for me, Krist is the glue for Nirvana especially in songs like On A Plain and Lounge Act
Krist's bass sound is super important.
Andy always, every mix, every album, the best ever!
Absolutely!
About the snare sound, I've read somewhere Andy Wallace saying he only added a sample for some kind of gunshot-like reverb after the initial hit, but what you hear there is 100% real. He said "you're actually hearing Dave's snare".
Yes, this is correct.
Really cool analysis! Wallace's mix is definitely the stronger of the two in my opinion. Much better separation in terms of the instruments and nothing seems to be fighting for space, whereas Vig's mix feels very crowded and thick despite the wide separation on the guitar tracks. I do feel that Wallace's mix in "CAYA" loses some nuance; the ghost notes on Dave's snare during the verses are barely audible in the Wallace mix but you very clearly hear them in the Vig mix. That said, in Vig's "SLTS" mix, the kick drum gets buried amidst the din, and the extremely gated snare is the antithesis of nuance. When I listen to Vig's Devonshire mix, I enjoy it but feel fatigued afterwards; Wallace's mix is definitely the one to ingest if you don't want to feel like taking an antacid and a nap afterward.
Thanks! Andy's mix just translates so well it's tough to deny!
I like the Butch Vig mix more. It feels more like Killing Joke almost, something more old school, darker, his voice is more present, the energy is just harder. Butch Vig wins IMO. I think some, not all, but some of peoples opinion on this has to do with just plain nostalgia and the fact that so much music evolved around this one record…
Butch's certainly has a vibe...
You definitely said smells like TEAM spirit! 😂 0:26
HELLO HELLO!
Butch Vig sounds like Motley Crue. Andy Wallace sounds like grunge.
Also, Butch’s mix seems more drenched in reverb, and somehow thinner somehow
Agreed. One was a mix of the era, and one was a mix of the future.
The way this album was recorded and mixed was a vital part of its commercial success. Similarly, the way In Utero was recorded contributed to its lack of commercial success (particularly pre April 8, 1994 - sales went up for all Nirvana records afterwards, yet Nevermind has been the bestseller ever since). "The market" has always liked Nevermind better than In Utero. If you listen to some of Nirvana's best shows on the 93/94 tour, you get a chance to hear the songs of both Nevermind as well as In Utero in a level playing field. The In Utero songs in that level playing field are, in my opinion, as strong as the Nevermind songs. Cobain's ego, and giving to much importance to what other people might think of him, made him go way too extreme with the Steve Albini approach to his music. He made a u-turn on 3 of In Utero's best songs afterwards, when he asked Scott Litt to redo them. Would have loved to hear In Utero recorded the Nevermind way. It's what made 99,99999% of the Nirvana fans and listeners hooked on their music.
Unfortunately we will never hear that version, and it will leave us wondering "what if".
butch vig version sounds like in utero
I could definitely see that...
Apparently there is a Teen Spirit Butch Vig mix and another one called 'The Devonshire mix' . Are both the same? Because when I hear both versions, there are still some differences between them.
The Butch and Devonshire mix are essentially the same.
now can you do a video comparing the original version to the 2011 mix to the 1996 version to the 2021 version
Dang, I didn't know there was a 2021 version as well. For sure. I'm working on one for the Pearl Jam Ten remaster (Brendan O'Brien) as well currently.
@@MakeTheMusic Yeah, they've remastered like every grunge album by now, Alice in chains, Soundgarden, pearl jam, nirvana, eve stone temple pilots.
honestly I'm not much of an audiophile myself but this video really helped me see the differences between the mixes, so Id love to see the same style of video for these other mixes and remasters
Yeah, I would love to break down these remasters. I guess they need a find a way for people to re-purchase these albums every 10 years and make some extra cash.
@@MakeTheMusic yeah, that's why I'm always a little skeptical of these rematers, but Spotify always replaces the original songs with them. my dumb ears don't even notice any differences though
Sometimes the differences are very small, if not just a volume boost for modern sound standards, but sometimes they can be full-on remixes.
thanks for this!
You bet!
Where'd you get that Pro Tools Theme for Reaper?
I have a video on my channel all about that.
Woah I'm loving the Butch snare. Then again I'm a way bigger fan of 80's arena rock than anything grunge related 🤷♂️
Its definitely a vibe!
I hear a noise gate on the snare on both tracks. Very odd to me as a producer, I would not put a noise gate on any snare when working with Rock Bands
Keeps out the cymbal bleed in noisy drum kits
Andy’s version
Agreed!
Its basically the same! Its not like they made "endless nameless" sound like "polly"! Also the first time you said it, you said "smells like TEAM spirit"! 🤣 Im gonna use that as a title for a song!
Kurdt was full of shit lol. FOR ME the Wallace mix is far superior. To be clear, I think Butch is one of the very best at RECORDING rock music. He's simply awesome at what he does. But the final product that Wallace handed in was the best production I had ever heard at the time. I was a 19yr old musician & Nevermind not only blew my damn mind, but it also forever changed the way that I looked at making music. Nirvana came along and slapped the bleach right out of my teased-up hair!!! 😝
Butch produced an amazing record; Andy finished the job with the mix. Together it's the perfect combo.
Team Andy Wallace, definitely
Butch Vig is a producer more than a mixer… too much processing, bass drum unnatural, almost bad processed with a big roaming after the transient… why room on the intro guitar…
Vocal processing eliminate what made Kurt’s voice unique on this album…
Seems that Wallace mix is closer to the real band’s sound…
Wallace's mix was perfection. Of course we can't downplay Butch's genius production moves!
But some of those difference could also come from the mastering afterwards, unless you tell me both versions went through the exact same mastering gear and settings
We can hear mix differences in the sound of tracks without knowing the mastering process.
@@MakeTheMusic When you made the scooped EQ curves, that could of easily came from the mastering
Possibly. This is the best I had to work with for a mix comparison.
Sorry I didn't realise this was a audio analysis of Skillrex.
As you can REALLY hear difference (plays 2 seconds of random sounds)
hmmm yes I REALLY can : /
Playing large portions of the track is a great way to get my video taken down for copyright...
Butch Vigs mix is absolutely 100% better, it sounds more like a live band, im pretty sure Kurt wanted Butch Vigs mix anyway,
Butch's does have that live feel!
Butch Vig´s mix sounds more modern. I like AW version
Agreed! Andy's rocks!
Andy is the GOAT
Agreed!
Jesus let it play for more than 2 seconds so we can get a feel good the differences. That's so frustrating couldn't finish the video.
That's a good way to get my video taken down due to copyright.
@@MakeTheMusic Fair enough.
This is pointless UNLESS you are comparing the UNMASTERED Versions. Love Sound Designer / Pro Tools, nonetheless.
Certainly not pointless
0:24 smells like team spirit?? teen*
smells like team spirit lol
lol
I agree that Butch Vig 's drums don't sound as good. Which is very annoying as I thought, with him being a drummer, that his would have been better. That drum fill you pointed out for having a lack of dynamics sounded like stuff I've done with MY Power Drum Kit in the past. LOL.
Yeah, the drums aren't great, but Butch did a great job tracking and producing the record. Solid points!
Butch Vig's mixes were so much better, it feels more Sub-Pop-ish.
Definitely has a raw feel.
damn butch vig isnt the greatest mixer. i did not agree with a lot of his choices. he can produce me any day though 👍
Agreed!
It’s funny that you think Vig’s drums are samples, and Wallace’s are not, and Vig’s are gated. You are absolutely backwards. Wallace gates snare, and kicks, and uses samples more so than Vig. Butch Vig is more organic whereas Andy Wallace substitutes for polish, but I did like that you pointed out the fact that you could have it totally backwards. I like Andy Wallace’s version more, because that’s what we heard 1st, but Sir Butch is still a genius, and I would jam it just the same. I’m just being a little critical to your critical listening, so I’m not meaning to be a dick, I’m just saying.
Butch is absolutely a genius and was the perfect guy to produce the record. My point was that Andy knocked it out the park with the mix on this one.
@@MakeTheMusic Yes sir. I do agree Andy’s mix was better, but Kurt would love every minute of this, and then act like we are both posers, and chose wrong. I guess I felt like I had to defend Butch, and I’m the ass for doing it. It’s always good times to go on about good tunes, and the geniuses that did them. I apologize totally. The truth is I only wish I was the caliber of either Andy, or Butch, and maybe someday we both will. I do appreciate your insight. You made a video not me. Good on you boss.
Haha no worries. Nevermind is a kick ass album no matter who mixed it honestly. Butch brought out the best performances from the boys and crafted amazing sounds. Andy took the mix to an amazing level for commercial consumption. I get why people might like the Butch mix too.
Did you just say “smells like *team spirit?” Kids these days… smdh.
Butch's is pretty good, but Andy's better.
Andy Wallace is on another level...
it's not a sample! lol
Gotcha!
Whats up with that insane twang on the guitars in the intro of the vig version. Just artificial.
You'd have to ask Butch haha