i was a teenager when indie sleaze was happening and what i miss about that time is that back then we didn't used to put a label on the so called aesthetic we were living in. nobody was like "today im putting on my indie sleaze fantasy bullshit". we were just living and vibing. and thank god there are not mutch photos of that time of my life.
@@andrezinho_maravilha no we were just looking cool, taking pics. I remember people saying your look was like “skins” or “Lana” or “Gaga” or “lmfao” or “new boyz” (i need to do a swag era vid) but don’t remember going after a whole aesthetic unless it was like scene or hipster maybe? But even then it seemed less chill/ you could make a look out of what you had. Hell, we were popping the lenses out of 3D glasses to do that “nerd/ swag” look 😭
@@naomi.cannibal what i remember most about the era is that somehow i was very influenced by some french elotropop shit that popped after the success of bands like Justice and the whole Ed Banger music label aesthetic. i remember seeing the video for the music "D.A.N.C.E" by Justice around 2007 and thinking like: wow i think that changed my life for better. once i was in, there were no way out! unforthenelly i got rid of my clothes that represented best my indie sleazy glory, but thoses colorfull raybans wayfarer i'm definetly still rocking.
@@andrezinho_maravilha yessss i used to LOVE that song! I remember i even made a Pandora Station (we olddd lol) based on it just so i could get some similar songs
if anything we would just call it 2010s and it's subcultures like swag or hipster or some op would call it the hashtag millennial years and as a genz-er, I call it the tumblr aesthetic bc I couldn't participate much but definitely lived it through tumblr, weheartit, and twitter.
I was definitely dressed in this style at the time. I was also broke, which definitely forces you to get creative. And getting creative and adding pieces that are unique to you adds to authenticity of the look.
Yeah my style got so much better when I moved abroad to study and was super broke. Before I used to thrift in vintage stores, but then I couldn’t afford it anymore so I started going to flea markets and DIY-ing most of my clothes. Being broke wasn’t fun but (like you said) it forced me to be creative. But living abroad also gave me a sense of freedom to express myself
As a millennial that lived in LA between 2007-2012 I must say it delights me so much to finally see my early 20”s be profiled and have an authentic moniker now. I feel old cause my youth has come full circle back into fashion but it feels more like a completed cycle. ❤️
Ohh I was probably right there near you at the clubs/bars/parties in LA during that time. I can't believe this is an aesthetic now. My word, time flies. for reals.
@@angelical5386 Haha…yeah. ZERO regrets. I’m not gonna say I didn’t make any poor/risky decisions, cause I totally did. I just never faced any real consequences for them? 😂 Dumb luck is the best ingredient for great memories.
@@courtneybrock1LMAO I used to joke that whatever guardian angels were looking after me during that time worked overtime so in my 30s, I couldn’t play that dumb shit anymore because they would’ve retired LMAO. Also, my brain was developed after 25 so I had no excuse to be that dumb😅😅😅
the point of indie sleeze is individualism, nowadays anything that's trendy can become superficial quickly cuz of social media and such. if indie sleeze does come back, it'll never bring that type of energy from the 2000s-2010s back i fear
Yeah. A 'hipsterish' (although people then would've hated to be called that) sense of authenticity and 'individuality' (a collective sense of not wanting to belong to lifestyles/generally what were then considered empty aesthetics pushed by fashion brands/corporations (?), or more generally 'the mainstream'), which is impossible to superficially replicate and actually accomplish at the same time, by definition (and by what the various movements "indie sleaze" tries to reference's values actually were, at the time). A direct rejection of the preppiness and superficiality that, I'd say, an empty recreation of 2000s-2010s' 'counterculture' is bound to be inherently riddled with.
A most definitely toxic, sense of 'authenticity' (even if it's now seen as collective/imitation was v much still happening, on a larger-scale and was how that aesthetic propagated), I'd even say. The time's obsession with the figure of the 'copycat' says it all lol; which, again, is basically what's now been happening with the attempted, seemingly purely aesthetic revival. Which, in terms of values, I don't think would've been very well received.
No one called it Indie Sleaze. I think Hipster was the most common umbrella term. Within that, I heard “scene” “indie” “grunge” etc depending on the style/aesthetic
The late 2000's energy can never be recreated. It was time of fun quirky yet in your face offensive period in time. Everything nowadays is just superficial and too safe for money's sake
I think that’s not true, is anything it make a lot of sense that it’s coming back. Rn is becoming more conservative, offensive and REDPILL. It makes sense that we’re seeing a resurgence. The same people won’t be doing it obviously, but allot of us switched the flip phones, opted out of social media and are just living. ❤
@@tylerhackner9731I mean, at the mainstream level, absolutely. Record labels and large corporations don't really take big risks anymore, but that's because even they are two major flops from a crisis. It’s not no one wants to be creative anymore, it’s that the people who are passionate literally can't afford it… But that's a cop-out so here’s the real reason: Without a major established community that is willing to defend you with their lives and wallets (esp. marginalized groups including gays), these artists are getting ridiculed and tomatoed out of existence.
thats what im sayingggggg as someone obsessed w meet me in yhe bathroom and that scene im like where’s the fun weird shit where’s the rapture where’s liars where’s the bad singing and scratchy guitars and shit. the dare’s old band turtlenecked was sooo interesting and experimental and it’s like he lost all that because he realized that he can get manhattan nepo’s to fund his lifestyle
do any of my fellow indie sleaze enjoyers remember the band The Ting Tings? i was in my indie sleaze bag at this time. always had my digital camera trying to emulate that candid flash photography aesthetic. i even did a powerpoint presentation on terry richardson for my photography class at the time. the main music i’d listen to was m.i.a, santigold, mgmt, yeah yeah yeahs, phoenix, the wombats, the ting tings, and constantly wore fishnets, knee-high/thigh-high socks and tights with mini skirts and tshirts i’d cut up. it was fun times and I’m glad my party phase was at the height of still sharing your good times with social media and capturing those moments without the expectations of needing your photos to be overly polished in fear of being judged for being less than perfect
something i love about this era is how authnethic everything felt and you had the freedom the be yourself in all spaces without feeling perceived by random strangers
I was the right age when this era was big and this was so influential to my tastes and even my career as a designer. J*Davey, Solange, Cassie and of course Santigold were huge black musicians and tastemakers and do not get their flowers for influencing the culture. This was SUCH a good revisit of a great era, thank you!
I like this new name indie sleaze, but back then the entire subculture was just referred to as “hipster”. Edit: also when I see people say this can “never come back”, you must be American 😂 this type of nightlife/lifestyle very much still exists in Europe
I go out in London a lot and frequent the iconic pubs from that era. It’s not the same, it can’t be recreated. We saw it with the grunge and emo resurgence, it’s too clean cut and this won’t be any different.
@@rubyblue007I think that when they say “europe” they probably mean places like germany more than england. club culture in berlin etc is still very much like this
@@prosperpascoe I haven’t been to Berlin but I know it’s still very much like that! Unfortunately though a lot of the clubs and bars that the indie it people went to in London are gone, except for like a handful and the ones that survived (particularly in Camden) are almost like tourist attractions now.
Correction for that blogger: Wired earphones are not retro or outdated. They have a higher capability of amazing sound quality then on/in earphones. They work well with quad dac and hifi music players. And you don't have to charge them. I promise I'm not an audiophile 🤣 .
2004-2007 Vice Magazine was a manual for Indie Sleaze, although at the time we all knew it as “hipster” with the catch that you had to deny actually being a hipster, because that meant you were trying to look that way rather than authentically expressing yourself. See also Cat Marnell.
I got arrested when the cab driver that picked me up from her book party assaulted me. I punched him and ran out of the cab on a frozen highway… And the cops didn’t want to arrest him, but I insisted…. Then they arrested him and me as well.
32 here, I was there and we called this style “punk” for some reason. Also….it was a VERRRY alcohol heavy experience the fun was waking up to see all the photos you don’t remember taking and posting EVERYTHING !
It was kinda both. I was a teenager in LA during this time. Up until about 2011 it was called hipster, but then after it became more messy and unpolished and everyone just started calling it punk at a certain point because hipster got a really douchey “i drink americanos and IPA” vibe and everyone else thought “if i drink Pabst I’m punk not hipster.”
We will never get that, it is kinda impossible. The older gen z did the ones who were in college 2016-2019, but the younger one who graduated hs during lockdown, their 20s are vastly different because our world is vastly different tbh. The essence is gone, shits depressing now
I see a lot of comments saying it never had a label at the time, but I often remember my peers and sister calling their style "indie" and "hipster" incessantly.
I was in middle school in late 2007 so I had vivid memories of watching mtv + vh1 in the mornings when they played music videos. Artists like MIA, justice, mgmt, kid cudi etc were pretty much running both channels with ease. It’s the first “different” music I was ever exposed to and honestly I’m happy to see it coming back in the way of artists like slayyyter Charli the dare and others. 🎉
I low-key wonder if we will ever see a decade-defining fashion for the 2020s because it feels like we're just recycling fashion every season. I really like the modern takes on 00s fashion but we don't have a strong "2020s" look imo.
@@Greybell the black crop top and wide leg jeaned people want a word lol I definitely can think of many defined looks that do take from the past, but are their own thing (tiktok fashion, linen people, diff. kinds of 'fashion influencers', "clean girls", mullet bros, etc.). It just might be a bit harder to define while you're "in it".
I definitely think indie sleaze is not long for this world (as does any other revival trends). Trends just don't last long or has a lasting impact like they used to. Before we have communities, identities, a sort of tribalism in the way we dress, listen, communicate, band together in a high school clique or find solace on an internet forum. Now, everything is aesthetics, fluid. Categories broken down so small, it becomes nicher and more short-lived. Style over substance. There's also something to be said to about how social media has evolved from its community, peer-to-peer ideals to the dependency on the "For you" algorithm.
Did anyone else like American Apparell for the ‘regular’ sized models. It was during the peak skinny Victoria secret model era, so having these regular sized girls being considered hot, really boosted my fragile teen ego
Indie sleaze was seen as fashionable at the time. But there was a lot of room to individualize. People could obeses over leather jackets but maybe someone had studs or another was cropped. Many of the statement pieces were in fashion but curated to the individual person
Another niche perspective that reads indie sleaze to me is the comebacks of 2nd gen kpop bands, who were also a lot messier and raw than their polished counterparts that we see in 4th and 5th gen
The way people swore that 2010s fashion would never come back 😂😂😂 skinny jeans will be coming to a store close to you But I will also add that indie sleaze incorporated high fashion items like Jeremy Scott, Moschino, peep platform Christian Louboutin heels, etc. (Jeremy Scott was actually in one of those photos you showed). But indie sleaze also incorporated thrifted pieces and fast fashion. It was also very much wearing everything that you loved and thought was fashionable.
Before this scene was called Indie Sleaze we called it “Blog house”. I’ve seen people in the city calling the club/party scene Nu Sleaze but I doubt it will stick.
Sweet baby Jesus, that was a trip down nostalgia road. As an “elder millennial” I was peak doing, wearing, consuming all of this from ‘09-‘12. And yeah, when you’re in it, there’s no name for it. It’s just “what’s happening.” But, I’ve definitely noticed the same appreciative nostalgia for current music and trends coming from my “glory day party friends.” Mostly because we’re in our 40’s/late 30’s, have full time salaried/always responsible for something jobs, kids, aging, parents, and of course, are still coming to terms with how the pandemic has effected this phase of our lives. The freedom and wild parties of 2010 simultaneously feel like yesterday and a previous life. And while there’s zero part of me that has the youth and stamina for “round 2,” I’ve been having a hell of a time showing old photos to “the kids” and being like, “yes that sequined mini skirt was actually a tube top.” 😂 But from a first hand perspective, your comment about the shift in social media, (Instagram in particular,) is spot on. I mean, the selfie was a thing before smart phones. I have plenty from college with friends. You just didn’t know if you’d taken a successful pic until it was developed and picked up. And by 2009, smart phone cameras good enough that most folks were transitioning away from digital cameras unless they had a “reason.” So, all that instant selfie tech was there, but still waiting for a real distribution vehicle. Which meant, if you were taking selfies at a party/club/concert, it was private memorabilia, not public content. But, media knew there was a market interested in consuming said content. Not celebrity/paparazzi stuff, but pics of regular folks having the time of their lives at the warehouse party you didn’t know about. Because, it was accessible, possible. Unlike wild celebrity parties, the only reason you weren’t there is because you missed the underground memo. They weren’t stopping either. So if you saw wild pics of no-name locals being glamorized like LA celebrities and wanted in, you could easily find your way into the next “it girl photo.” I lived in Austin at the time, (I still do,) and back then the Chronicle had a section of their online page called “The A List.” Every weekend their photographers would hit up “the best parties and concerts” to candidly document nightlife highlights, taken exactly like your example photos. And, I’m not gonna lie, finding out you made it into some of those photos felt real good on the ego. If you think about current selfie/instagram/tictok culture, someone who’s at a party to take photos for a media publication isn’t going to be interested in someone who’s already taking pictures of theirselves. That’s not interesting content. I don’t remember when “The Austin A List” went away, (I had to become a responsible adult at some point,) but it did, probably becoming irrelevant as Instagram and influencers took over social media. Instagram removed the middle man. However, being fully in the moment, not touching your phone, and being “chosen” by the middleman was WAY more fun. And you’re right. There can’t be an exact return to a previous era. Culture can only reference a previous era. Those wild and glorious years happened that way because our current social media landscape didn’t exist. We always cycle back to previous trends and aesthetics, but their “reincarnation” will always take place through a lens of present day technology and media. Awesome breakdown. I really enjoyed it. ☺️
I always saw it as the elder millennial’s answer to the prevalence of Scene culture, & how we felt slightly too old to participate in it while also wanting to be a little edgier than the Hipsters.
@@kalliejupiter7018It’s interesting you say that, because after leaving this comment I found another one on here mentioning being called “Scene kids.” And I think as like….oh yeah! I remember using that! It was either “scene kids” or “scenesters.” (As a play on the word hipster.) Also, you hit on a key reason I forgot about the label when writing this post. We didn’t self-identify as scene kids, but were often called that by others for being part of the “scene kid” family. We knew the “true” scene kids were the youngest lot of Gen Xers who’d laid the groundwork. Ravers and early Burning Man folks from the late 90’s and early 2000’s. We didn’t invent the scene, and didn’t want to look stupid in front of folks who’d been at OG Oakenfold raves or personally knew Larry from the early days. By ‘09, they weren’t so much going to parties as throwing them and producing events. The OG scene kids created our scene. The lack of self-identification came with a dose of “we’re not worthy.” However, we were totally cool hating on hipsters for being fake or “trying too hard.” Apparently, our heads were still large enough to consider ourselves the taste police. Fortunately, turning 30 made pretty much everyone I knew way less insufferable. Lol 😂❤😂 They were pretty fantastic glory days, though.
Believe it or not rocking skinnies with a leather jacket or american apparel hoodie was the biggest ‘f the man’ thing you could do back then - besides sneaking out of your parents house and getting wasted on clear liquor in your buddies backyard. That era was basically the peak of a punk attitude resurgence meeting 21st century technology trends for the 1st time. There were no limits to creativity back then, as a bordering generation millenials were constantly blending influences from the 60’s/80’s/90’s. It captured lightning in a bottle. I really do think people are way too self and health consciousness for this to ever come back though, we felt sleepless/ depressed and disgusting back then because we were off late night fast food diets/ liquor and drugs and felt 0 need to impress the gram. What a beautiful rock bottom roll it was.
@@courtneybrock1 yeppp. And scene kid also bled into the punk and emo scene. Although there was a lot of variety in the music, it all sort of became one visual stylistic mash by the end. which reminds me... I miss electroclash 🥲
Yes but rhag was more for as you said the people going to shows. Some people were more art centric, some more fashion forward, some more dramatic arts and film. Lots of writers. LOTS of political activists. The hipsters.
@@sickkirby Omg my parents used to say this too and they’re so right, everything really does come back- wild to be old enough to start to watch it happen
I’m so glad you mentioned Saltburn in this. Indie Sleaze is such a specific and hard-to-pin-down era/aesthetic. Saltburn perfectly captures the look, vibe, and era.
This can never work. First off, we have lost our sense of community and in a society where every person thinks they're a main character and lives in their own world, this will be turned into just another aesthetics competition between influencers. Also it was pretty exclusionary when I used to be a part of it but at least you were allowed to have some quirky features. Now everyone who doesn't have an instagram face is deemed unattractive and is automatically discriminated against. And I am convinced that this will be another style hogged by the super attractive people who will just use it to parade around in their "uniqueness" and narcissism. There is definitely no fun in that.
As a teenager right now i genuinely CANT WAIT to see what name future teens come up with for this era. I genuinely have no idea what to classify this whole nostalgia craze as mostly because to me atleast it does look like nothing original. But im sure future generations will see the diffrences and give us way more praise than we probably deserve lmao 😭
I live in Montreal as a Genz and the city is so indie sleaze. The core of it really is just enjoying yourself, getting a digital camera, and living in the moment. I personally think, the cyclical nature of these eras, is so that people can process and reflect on the reality they just lived, and so that younger generations can understand and experience the context that came before them. I think it’s an amazing thing that happens in humanity. Because when I was younger I wanted to participate is so many aesthetics, that I truly resonated with, and the fact that now we can do that, with more research, more ethics and more inclusion, its truly beautiful to me.
Need a video on preppy. I heard boat shoes r coming back and im so confused bc i wouldve been so embarrassed to wear those in high school lol it gives vinyard vines to me!
@@victoria-e omggg I used to wear them all the time! There was a point in MS/HS where the “uniform” was like Sperrys, plaid Bermuda shorts and a matching tee/ polo… we were all looking like professional ass kids 😭
the more i reflect on this and what we called it, I think I was just hearing "hipster" around a lot at the time, though hipster can also lean a tiny bit toward a cleaner-cut approach to this look. i'm glad for indie sleaze as a term.
I think the comments that say “it’s just hipster that’s what we called it” touch on the fact that back then, there were not an infinite # niche categories to identify with, we just were identified with being anti mainstream. And there was a million different ways that that could look. I’m 30 and started college in 2012 so I was maybe a little young for some of this.. but I very much feel like the hipster stereotype of people with mustaches and a pretentious attitude would ALSO go to the club and party and listen to icona pop “idc I love it.” There was a lot of overlap, at least for me.. people had their extroverted and introverted sides to them and would pull out the leather jacket one night and then would dress like a grandma to go the coffee shop the next morning
Thanks for this vid! Brought back some great and not so great memories for me. I listened to a lot of experimental electronic back in the late 00’s/early 10’s. I was in my early 20’s during this time and always called this music low-if indie electronic or chill wave. I listened to A LOT of Neon Indian, Unknown Mortal Orchestra, Justice, MIA, Santigold, Empire Of The Sun, Crystal Castles, The Knife, and Memory Cassette. Also, the Nasty Gal website was a huge inspiration for me style wise. I still listen to all this music to this day and still dress in vintage fashion so I guess I’ve never left this era.. haha. The only term I heard used for this aesthetic or culture was hipster, which I got called and didn’t like at the time. To be completely honest I kinda like the description of indie sleaze.. It describes it quite nicely.
It was good for it's time, but it simply can't return in the way it used to be. There might be some artists who are independent and have their own version of it, but corporations, as always, try to make it squeaky clean for mass consumption. Edit: Another point I would like to add is that the growth of technology gives everyone a camera in their hands. People are more connected than ever, which makes it harder to really emulate the same vibes. But it's still cool that people are trying to emulate it.
I don't understand when people use indie sleaze references that are too mainstream. the indie aesthetic was the opposite of that. also, tumblr was important, but the tumblr girl/boy aesthetic is not indie sleaze.
It’s funny, because I have always dressed like this and it never had a name. Interesting that it finally does and I’m finally getting props for my outfits at age 37. People used to just look at me strangely before.
I think all our perception of previous eras will always be a combination of how people who lived it recorded it and how future generations interpret it. Ie our view of ancient Greece is from recreation from people in the 1900 or western history interpreted by Hollywood. Now indie sleeze feels like how the kids of the people that lived it interpret their parents/siblings/aunts/ nosy kids ruffling through facebook albums interpret that era. I just hope this does not mean a revival of Terry Richardson's career. I can live without that guy in pop culture again.
Okay bro slow your roll lol. OUR KIDS? The only people that were truly living it back then and not being pathetic old people out with the youths might have little babies and toddlers now. But their kids aren’t interpreting anything! Indie sleaze ended in like 2016 Literally ended with trump presidency.
The difference is back then indie sleaze was a real life cultural era that was recorded online but now it's an online trend that is performed by some in real life. I don't think it's even actually indie sleaze at all just partially inspired like young Millennials were by the 80's/90's fashion
This was definitely the "I'm rich, but want to seem relatable" look that Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen popularized in their college years... Ahhh the good ole days of Us and Star magazines. 😂
The fact that "indie sleaze" (it is literally called hipster. why do ppl need to invent new words for things that have already been given a name lol?) coexisted with gangnam style won't let me sleep at night
I definitely noticed the next generation stopped drinking as heavily circa 2012 or so (when I turned 30). And there was a sharp downturn in cigarette smoking. Thus the two core pillars of indie sleaze toppled and it was no more. It's hard to get that essential sweaty pallor all day unless you're incredibly hungover. I had a really good time during that era but nostalgia is pretty tedious so I'm happy it's moved on to something else. I'd forgotten about the whole mixy matchy style here's me thinking it's my personal aesthetic when I'm really just trapped in millenial sock equivalent stasis.
Wow, I’m truly impressed. I think this is one of your best videos just the way you express yourself in. This was so well done while actually being thorough
I'm 34. I never knew the term indie Sleaze at the time, but I definitely lived the lifestyle in college, through 2015. And then I moved and was broke for a while but I kept the wardrobe, collected records and books, raved when I could afford it, lived under my string lights. I always was indie, and I always will be. I still wear my eclectic vintage wardrobe. I still listen to various strains of electronica, independent radio, and the pop and rock of eras past. I'll be raving to the grave bb.
I'm seeing a lot of chat about individualism in that era but honestly this is nostalgia. Like in literally any era, there were hallmarks of the zeitgeist that lots of us wore, behaviours lots of people adopted - so many people were adopting a mood, a vibe, an attitude that was typified & glorified by Vice, NME, Popworld and all the bands staggering drunkenly through this era. The demin miniskirt, the spray-on skinny jeans, the cheap plastic slat-blinds shades, the Libertines' Sgt Pepper BS, the self-conscious hedonism and trashedness, the bodycon dresses and Gaga heels with Myspace haircuts, the studied skeeviness and seediness of everything, the worship of Alexa Chung and Karen O, the grungy indie and dance clubs & basement bars that stayed open til 4 or 5am (London weeps for those halcyon days), the ubiquity of Urban Outfitters, the need for everything to be edgy to the point that nothing was by the end, and the cartoonishly neon, 'look how obnoxious I am' menwear vibe... These were all trends within a scene that people were participating in. I was working in music and out all night throughout it & beyond, and the fashion, the attitude and the hedonism were all-consuming (and indeed, did consume & end the lives of more than one person I knew). As in any era, there were some very individual people who were leading, not following, but there were also tons of folks picking up what they were putting down, and immersing themselves in the trends. Which is absolutely fine and normal. It was a scene, like so many before it - a colourful, fun, chaotic, sometimes creepy, memorable one, with some incredible music, and more than a few very dark characters (like the aforementioned Terry Richardson, shudder, and yer man from Vice who morphed into a Proud Boy) - but not as fiercely individualist or original as described in some of the comments.
What makes these sorts of aesthetics interesting is that it was hot when it first happened, it was a moment and the appeal is that its relatively a diy thing, very candid, so when ppl try nowadays try to replicate the style it gives try hard, I’m kinda over this newer generation taking early 2000s/2010 aesthetics and concepts, thinking just bc they’re referencing or replicating it that makes it cool and interesting, especially when music and pop culture in general is more corporate, manufactured and more clean cut than ever, maybe it’s cus I’m getting old so I’ve seen this era happen in real time, but it’s not appealing seeing new artists or even influencers cosplay an era they weren’t apart of, the appeal was that you were kind of a mess having fun, you probably had some issues and you went out and partied your issues away, that was a lifestyle people actually lived, mfs don’t be living like this fr lol and the ones that do live this life have public images to maintain, nobody is teetering stumbling out the club drunk as hell, smacked off drugs
Charli pulls it off because she’s a 32 year old millennial who was actually in that scene in the 00s/10s. She’s not someone younger mimicking what they see online. She lived it.
@@eauxkei702yeah she lived it but recreating it as an aesthetic for her album even still feels very costume-y and also kind of regressive, you 32 still acting like it’s spring break 2004, it gives tacky
@@LifeOfTheAngelsHer current lifestyle is due to the industry and genre she’s in, so I really have no comment on that. I’m sure if she had a 9-5 this wouldn’t be how she lives daily lol. But also nothing wrong with still partying from time to time. I’m in my 30s and I have friends that will still rave a couple times a year because why not? But I think this album was naturally next for her. She usually returns to hyper pop after releasing a more “standard” pop album or two. That said I mostly agree with your original comment. But I see the only part I responded to is edited out now so I look way OT lol.
@@richieoconnor4462I said it’s tacky to do it as an album aesthetic and that it feels costume-y, idgaf that she actually does it lol it’s still putting on for social media bc that’s what’s in
until social media declines, indie sleaze seems like a front to me until i know your lore. bc no way everyone was bedrotting last week & now they’re a 365 party girl bumpin it???? and its such a rich person image bc 1) drugs & alcohol DO cost money 2) so does rehab. preppy/old money video would be a great contrast bc both just seem like two petulant rich kids lol. these will be a micro trend unlike Punk where there’s a real social ideology behind it.
Party all weekend, bedrot all week 🙃 Pop culture has definitely been taken over by rich kids tho, and I feel like the social acceptance of hermitry has taken hold in a way that would have been unusual back then (thanks Covid). But there will always be skint kids who want to stay up late and hellraise and make scrappy music and find inventive or subversive ways of doing what they want. That's as old as the hills.
Oh my god I miss the fb photo albums of the lamest hangouts. Because I grew up in the Midwest, there would be like 30 photos of a trip to Walmart at 7pm on a school night, but somehow if you weren’t there it still gave you fomo seeing that album lol
This was during the Wild West of the internet. It was punk, raunchy, and offensive. People were posting and saying whatever they wanted. This before social media really blew up. I’m not saying it was the best time, but it was different. Everything would have gone triple platinum on Tumblr 😂
No one who lived through it called it “indie sleaze”. It’s also not going to come back authentically because teenagers are too worried about how they look and not living in the moment due to things like social media. It’s like grunge, the “2.0” is too clean cut.
It’s so crazy to see what I was raised on come back as an adult and so soon .. I loved being a nerd on the internet before everything became saturated ☺️
Oh god this is what births the "aesthetics" but I'm living for the era breakdowns. This would be 2005-2010 then 2010-2015 would be the era of swag culture, cyberpunk, vaporwave, synthwave, edgy dank meme culture, pixels, 50s florals/retro diners were popular, different variations of grunge and goth (like pastel goth and soft grunge), British, and TWEE. Pioneers would be Alexa Chung, LDR, Urban Outfitters, $uicide Boy$, Yung Lean, Cher Lloyd lmao, Nicki Minaj, Justin Bieber, Tyler The Creator, Rihanna, 1D, and the british youtubers and tumblr famous people. Then comes their creations, flourishing in 2013-2016, Supreme and EOS lipbalms everywhere.
I'm happy for elements of indie sleaze to be back, because it generally represents a carefree attitude and it's not obsessed with money. Sitting on the floor and talking with a friend while drinking a beer was cool, you didn't need anything else. But it was VERY obsessed with alcohol and thinness.
I beg to differ on one thing: OG indie sleaze was not at all 90s inspired, maybe a little grungy yeah but the main thing was 80s. I would say the grimey was more 70s druggie look from movies
I remember a phase during this time around when insta was allowing multiple images in a single post where people would purposely take and post the worst looking pictures of their "friends" on fb and insta. I remember one girl who was dating a friend who would do this to anyone she didn't like and then play it off like "it's just being real and in the moment." Even though it was so obvious she was taking nice pictures of herself at the beginning of the party and then waiting to take pics of others when they were getting tired and sloppy.
thanks for the explanation! its actually quite interesting to see how various social phenomena and factors overlap and the external factors affect subcultures... since you metioned the recession thing i mean. unfortunately i didnt get the opportunity to fully experience that era back in the days, since i was born in 2002 xd. but for me tumblr era was the best ❤
Not directly related and this might be weird and/or parasocial, but I get secondhand frustrated when I think about how under appreciated Slayyyter, especially Starfucker is. The internet’s biggest menace Azealia Banks says that Charli is scared of/intimidated by Slayyyter, LIZ & Brooke Candy, which is why she doesn’t put them on anymore like she used to a few years ago. Maybe there’s something to that. I’ll be interested to see who Charli chooses to platform on the brat remix album.
Love your take. The reality of social media mindset and aesthetics always aiming to trim the fat will never allow previous generational moods to come back. They'd have to give up the fear of always feeling the need to be perceived in the way they hope to be. Yes, myspace and Facebook existed, but like you said they were completely raw minus the profile pic really. The whole makeup of it was being in the moment and not defaulting to stepping out of it. It was also an era of extreme non PC culture which cannot exist now for better and for worse. Indie Sleaze today is just Halloween
This video bought me back to such a crazy time. The way the music hit-whether new EDM or listening to Bob Dylan & The Beatles. The way the fashion was, whether you had a quilted Chanel purse or an old oversized flannel. Wooden wedge heels with “liquid” leggings. UGH. if you wanted to look a certain way, you would actually have to do research and shop so it was actually fun!nowadays all you have to do is put your finger over someone’s picture and directly by the product, so uninspired & unoriginal. Everyone’s a carbon copy. Indie Sleaze was the last of the originals-or at least wanna be originals😂 I had such an amazing time in my 20’s & so happy I loved this moment!!!
Omg this was my aesthetic in hs before I became part of the punk rock scene. I feel like they cross over quite a bit. Especially the drink/party culture and idgaf attitude
its weird to see the aesthetic of it come back without a real music scene. brat was huge, but i thought the dare record didnt do enough outside of trying to sound like lcd/calvin harris, which for me is why the revival (or whatever we call it) feels so forced. the past and the present should naturally be creating something new together out of that meeting and instead it feels overly referential without much else.
i think people who are part of the indie sleaze resurgence now, people who are actively attempting to recreating, and people who lived it and/or deny a cultural moment like that could ever happen again all share this through line of romanticism that negatively impacts the experience. yes, this swag hipster boho party rocker fashion and music can only be alluded to now since we have already experienced the scene and can only return to it with retrospect, but i also feel that the experimentation, the freedom, and the feeling of being "seen" or a "somebody" can return. the hard parties can return. the candid moments and gritty living can and will return. the core of indie sleaze is living the party, letting go and being connected with others while being undeniably yourself. the only reason that core gets obfuscated is because of the only remnants of the movement being deliberate products, often ones for spectacle -- photos and music.
Haha! I’m not sure young folks right now are quite prepared for the sleaze part of what’s being called “indie sleaze.” Like the trim figure and nonchalance of puking from “H” or the upbeat dance-all-night best-friends energy of proper “E.” People were more present and yet yearning more for escape because they didn’t have a laptop in their pocket at all times.
These kids haven’t even been properly socialized for the last half decade bc of a literal pandemic. It’s all for the gram and the clock app. Indie sleaze was so so so real.
I was about a minute in and about to type this long rant about how the scene can’t come back and why. I think you did a great job at explaining the core of the scene with the flash photos, outfits and recklessness. I had this feeling that you were going to glamorize all of the “unclean” parts of the scene, which, in todays day and age would just be curated to look “unclean, unplanned” and in fact would be planned, much like fake “off guards”. One thing I’m glad you mentioned is the emphasis on the impact of the tragedy of 9/11. It created this hole in New York that needed to be filled. I was tempted to use this as a reason why the scene can’t be revived. However, you made a good point in bringing up COVID as something that we are still suffering from. As a younger adult, I sometimes forget that we are still processing what happened, the generation that graduated around the time had an unfair reality check. We have entered hard times again and I would love to see music and a sort of “scene” come out of this. We can all relate to the feeling of isolation that has come over us and hopefully we can create something new. Lastly, calling it indie sleaze is so modern it’s stupid. It’s just indie. And the sleaze part is this ridiculous self aware thing I’m tired of seeing. I’m tired of this self awareness and if we are going to move forward. It needs to drop
i think the rise in the drag scene of club kids again is kind of the same thing. it's this desire to create something from all of these perfect expectations crammed down your throat with your own personal twist. ppl recognize the elements bc they've been through it too, and the artists unique perspective is what makes it so impactful. think about how pretty much every decade's prominent fashions have made comebacks in the last few years, making it that much harder to define the modern style- it doesnt just drop off the face of the earth again just bc it's not trending on tiktok, people absorb it into their own styles and create something new around it. its just like the indie sleaze kids dressing to make their own statement instead of following particular rules
Yea the first wave of this was very organic and fun. Just from now middle age eyes the current iteration looks sorta branded and less authentic. But I wish y’all alot of fun. I think all young people deserve to have that time.
I definitely think the lack of partying and socialization during the lockdowns influenced this revival. I was in my would-be peak college party days during the time of the lockdowns. As an extrovert I remember it was an extremely lonely time and I missed partying. Once society opened up I launched into partying at full force, as clearly many other people have too.
There are no poppin apartment parties in my city cus of gentrification. This was the last fun era to be for me and my friends, but literally tech bros ruined it
Also even though older gen z didn’t get to go to the clubs to party this way I can say we did at least get to have a bit of that experience by 2016 till maybe 2018. After that with the advancement of everything plus the pandemic it just won’t ever be the same here at least. I’ve heard that it’s different in Europe and I’m sure it is since we seem to be so hyper focused on fame and aesthetics
Blame the 80s and the music culture it arose from. A lot of people often forget that the 80s is what set the tone of today's pop culture especially when it relates to fashion.
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i was a teenager when indie sleaze was happening and what i miss about that time is that back then we didn't used to put a label on the so called aesthetic we were living in. nobody was like "today im putting on my indie sleaze fantasy bullshit". we were just living and vibing. and thank god there are not mutch photos of that time of my life.
@@andrezinho_maravilha no we were just looking cool, taking pics. I remember people saying your look was like “skins” or “Lana” or “Gaga” or “lmfao” or “new boyz” (i need to do a swag era vid) but don’t remember going after a whole aesthetic unless it was like scene or hipster maybe? But even then it seemed less chill/ you could make a look out of what you had. Hell, we were popping the lenses out of 3D glasses to do that “nerd/ swag” look 😭
@@naomi.cannibal what i remember most about the era is that somehow i was very influenced by some french elotropop shit that popped after the success of bands like Justice and the whole Ed Banger music label aesthetic. i remember seeing the video for the music "D.A.N.C.E" by Justice around 2007 and thinking like: wow i think that changed my life for better. once i was in, there were no way out! unforthenelly i got rid of my clothes that represented best my indie sleazy glory, but thoses colorfull raybans wayfarer i'm definetly still rocking.
@@andrezinho_maravilha yessss i used to LOVE that song! I remember i even made a Pandora Station (we olddd lol) based on it just so i could get some similar songs
@@andrezinho_maravilha THIS❤️❤️❤️❤️
@@andrezinho_maravilhaI just saw justice and it was my fave concert ever🥹 love them and Ed banger sm
Having actually lived it, we definitely didn't call it "indie sleaze" so for it to have a name now is crazy
when I heard of that term, I immediately got reminded by Kesha's Sleazy song
Right? It was that Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen look.
This. Lol
if anything we would just call it 2010s and it's subcultures like swag or hipster or some op would call it the hashtag millennial years and as a genz-er, I call it the tumblr aesthetic bc I couldn't participate much but definitely lived it through tumblr, weheartit, and twitter.
it was just hipster
I was definitely dressed in this style at the time. I was also broke, which definitely forces you to get creative. And getting creative and adding pieces that are unique to you adds to authenticity of the look.
Yeah my style got so much better when I moved abroad to study and was super broke. Before I used to thrift in vintage stores, but then I couldn’t afford it anymore so I started going to flea markets and DIY-ing most of my clothes. Being broke wasn’t fun but (like you said) it forced me to be creative. But living abroad also gave me a sense of freedom to express myself
As a millennial that lived in LA between 2007-2012 I must say it delights me so much to finally see my early 20”s be profiled and have an authentic moniker now. I feel old cause my youth has come full circle back into fashion but it feels more like a completed cycle. ❤️
Ohh I was probably right there near you at the clubs/bars/parties in LA during that time. I can't believe this is an aesthetic now. My word, time flies. for reals.
To say drugs were a part of indie sleaze culture is an understatement lol. The amount of xanax & vodka redbulls that sustained me during that era..
As I often say, I’m glad I was the right age to make those memories. Cause, none of that’s ever happening again. 😂
LMAO YO. OUT OF CONTROL. I was 20-21 during the 2010’s wheeewwwww. 👏🏽WHAT 👏🏽A 👏🏽TIME👏🏽
@@courtneybrock1SAME. I always say I am glad I got to live that moment & not be craving to relive my youth. 👏🏽DAMN 👏🏽WHAT 👏🏽A 👏🏽TIME👏🏽😢😢🥲🥲
@@angelical5386 Haha…yeah. ZERO regrets. I’m not gonna say I didn’t make any poor/risky decisions, cause I totally did. I just never faced any real consequences for them? 😂
Dumb luck is the best ingredient for great memories.
@@courtneybrock1LMAO I used to joke that whatever guardian angels were looking after me during that time worked overtime so in my 30s, I couldn’t play that dumb shit anymore because they would’ve retired LMAO. Also, my brain was developed after 25 so I had no excuse to be that dumb😅😅😅
the point of indie sleeze is individualism, nowadays anything that's trendy can become superficial quickly cuz of social media and such. if indie sleeze does come back, it'll never bring that type of energy from the 2000s-2010s back i fear
i doubt it even ever came back. It feels more of a TikTok aesthetic like cottage core, dream girl pixie etc
Yeah. A 'hipsterish' (although people then would've hated to be called that) sense of authenticity and 'individuality' (a collective sense of not wanting to belong to lifestyles/generally what were then considered empty aesthetics pushed by fashion brands/corporations (?), or more generally 'the mainstream'), which is impossible to superficially replicate and actually accomplish at the same time, by definition (and by what the various movements "indie sleaze" tries to reference's values actually were, at the time).
A direct rejection of the preppiness and superficiality that, I'd say, an empty recreation of 2000s-2010s' 'counterculture' is bound to be inherently riddled with.
A most definitely toxic, sense of 'authenticity' (even if it's now seen as collective/imitation was v much still happening, on a larger-scale and was how that aesthetic propagated), I'd even say.
The time's obsession with the figure of the 'copycat' says it all lol; which, again, is basically what's now been happening with the attempted, seemingly purely aesthetic revival. Which, in terms of values, I don't think would've been very well received.
No one called it Indie Sleaze. I think Hipster was the most common umbrella term. Within that, I heard “scene” “indie” “grunge” etc depending on the style/aesthetic
The late 2000's energy can never be recreated. It was time of fun quirky yet in your face offensive period in time. Everything nowadays is just superficial and too safe for money's sake
Agreed, people don’t really take chances/risks anymore and it’s watered down
I think that’s not true, is anything it make a lot of sense that it’s coming back. Rn is becoming more conservative, offensive and REDPILL. It makes sense that we’re seeing a resurgence. The same people won’t be doing it obviously, but allot of us switched the flip phones, opted out of social media and are just living. ❤
@@tylerhackner9731I mean, at the mainstream level, absolutely. Record labels and large corporations don't really take big risks anymore, but that's because even they are two major flops from a crisis. It’s not no one wants to be creative anymore, it’s that the people who are passionate literally can't afford it… But that's a cop-out so here’s the real reason: Without a major established community that is willing to defend you with their lives and wallets (esp. marginalized groups including gays), these artists are getting ridiculed and tomatoed out of existence.
i wish artists took more risks but im glad people aren't saying the r word as much anymore
Hmm... Rachel Zoe
they only take the polished version of indie sleaze. we need the experimentation of it back. i think that was the whole appeal of it to me.
thats what im sayingggggg as someone obsessed w meet me in yhe bathroom and that scene im like where’s the fun weird shit where’s the rapture where’s liars where’s the bad singing and scratchy guitars and shit. the dare’s old band turtlenecked was sooo interesting and experimental and it’s like he lost all that because he realized that he can get manhattan nepo’s to fund his lifestyle
do any of my fellow indie sleaze enjoyers remember the band The Ting Tings?
i was in my indie sleaze bag at this time. always had my digital camera trying to emulate that candid flash photography aesthetic. i even did a powerpoint presentation on terry richardson for my photography class at the time. the main music i’d listen to was m.i.a, santigold, mgmt, yeah yeah yeahs, phoenix, the wombats, the ting tings, and constantly wore fishnets, knee-high/thigh-high socks and tights with mini skirts and tshirts i’d cut up. it was fun times and I’m glad my party phase was at the height of still sharing your good times with social media and capturing those moments without the expectations of needing your photos to be overly polished in fear of being judged for being less than perfect
Were they the that’s not my name band?!? I’d sooo hell yeah I remixed it for my squad cheer in a boot camp
Their song “That’s Not My Name” was featured on a cheerleading video game I had on my wii that was very similar to Just Dance.
@@cchh1 Omggg gonna listen to them today bc of u
@@naomi.cannibal 😁❤️
@@kimwhatmatters4085 yes that’s them!
something i love about this era is how authnethic everything felt and you had the freedom the be yourself in all spaces without feeling perceived by random strangers
I was the right age when this era was big and this was so influential to my tastes and even my career as a designer. J*Davey, Solange, Cassie and of course Santigold were huge black musicians and tastemakers and do not get their flowers for influencing the culture.
This was SUCH a good revisit of a great era, thank you!
I like this new name indie sleaze, but back then the entire subculture was just referred to as “hipster”.
Edit: also when I see people say this can “never come back”, you must be American 😂 this type of nightlife/lifestyle very much still exists in Europe
@@ione97 def American… I’ve always heard nightlife is completely dif in Europe (I wanna experience it someday tho)
yup as a kid i saw it all as "hipster"
I go out in London a lot and frequent the iconic pubs from that era. It’s not the same, it can’t be recreated. We saw it with the grunge and emo resurgence, it’s too clean cut and this won’t be any different.
@@rubyblue007I think that when they say “europe” they probably mean places like germany more than england. club culture in berlin etc is still very much like this
@@prosperpascoe I haven’t been to Berlin but I know it’s still very much like that! Unfortunately though a lot of the clubs and bars that the indie it people went to in London are gone, except for like a handful and the ones that survived (particularly in Camden) are almost like tourist attractions now.
Correction for that blogger: Wired earphones are not retro or outdated. They have a higher capability of amazing sound quality then on/in earphones. They work well with quad dac and hifi music players. And you don't have to charge them. I promise I'm not an audiophile 🤣 .
2004-2007 Vice Magazine was a manual for Indie Sleaze, although at the time we all knew it as “hipster” with the catch that you had to deny actually being a hipster, because that meant you were trying to look that way rather than authentically expressing yourself.
See also Cat Marnell.
Nailed it.
I got arrested when the cab driver that picked me up from her book party assaulted me. I punched him and ran out of the cab on a frozen highway…
And the cops didn’t want to arrest him, but I insisted….
Then they arrested him and me as well.
32 here, I was there and we called this style “punk” for some reason. Also….it was a VERRRY alcohol heavy experience the fun was waking up to see all the photos you don’t remember taking and posting EVERYTHING !
I always called the style “hipster.” All of the scene and emo/ alt kids moved their style over to it lol
@@roxywolfe26 we all collectively just stole their style and made it a thing looooll
@@roxywolfe26yes, I remember it as “hipster” !
It was kinda both. I was a teenager in LA during this time. Up until about 2011 it was called hipster, but then after it became more messy and unpolished and everyone just started calling it punk at a certain point because hipster got a really douchey “i drink americanos and IPA” vibe and everyone else thought “if i drink Pabst I’m punk not hipster.”
I hope gen z can have fun at club no bottle service, being stuck in phone or worrying what you look like. A time was had and y’all deserve fun ❤️
We will never get that, it is kinda impossible. The older gen z did the ones who were in college 2016-2019, but the younger one who graduated hs during lockdown, their 20s are vastly different because our world is vastly different tbh. The essence is gone, shits depressing now
I see a lot of comments saying it never had a label at the time, but I often remember my peers and sister calling their style "indie" and "hipster" incessantly.
Hipster for sure
I was in middle school in late 2007 so I had vivid memories of watching mtv + vh1 in the mornings when they played music videos. Artists like MIA, justice, mgmt, kid cudi etc were pretty much running both channels with ease. It’s the first “different” music I was ever exposed to and honestly I’m happy to see it coming back in the way of artists like slayyyter Charli the dare and others. 🎉
I low-key wonder if we will ever see a decade-defining fashion for the 2020s because it feels like we're just recycling fashion every season. I really like the modern takes on 00s fashion but we don't have a strong "2020s" look imo.
@@Greybell the black crop top and wide leg jeaned people want a word lol
I definitely can think of many defined looks that do take from the past, but are their own thing (tiktok fashion, linen people, diff. kinds of 'fashion influencers', "clean girls", mullet bros, etc.). It just might be a bit harder to define while you're "in it".
You only see the strong look looking back on it. People said the exact same thing about indie sleaze.
But now it’s so obviously of that time.
I definitely think indie sleaze is not long for this world (as does any other revival trends). Trends just don't last long or has a lasting impact like they used to. Before we have communities, identities, a sort of tribalism in the way we dress, listen, communicate, band together in a high school clique or find solace on an internet forum. Now, everything is aesthetics, fluid. Categories broken down so small, it becomes nicher and more short-lived. Style over substance. There's also something to be said to about how social media has evolved from its community, peer-to-peer ideals to the dependency on the "For you" algorithm.
Did anyone else like American Apparell for the ‘regular’ sized models. It was during the peak skinny Victoria secret model era, so having these regular sized girls being considered hot, really boosted my fragile teen ego
yeah and they didn't photoshop out the cellulite and stuff.
Indie sleaze was seen as fashionable at the time. But there was a lot of room to individualize. People could obeses over leather jackets but maybe someone had studs or another was cropped. Many of the statement pieces were in fashion but curated to the individual person
Another niche perspective that reads indie sleaze to me is the comebacks of 2nd gen kpop bands, who were also a lot messier and raw than their polished counterparts that we see in 4th and 5th gen
The way people swore that 2010s fashion would never come back 😂😂😂 skinny jeans will be coming to a store close to you
But I will also add that indie sleaze incorporated high fashion items like Jeremy Scott, Moschino, peep platform Christian Louboutin heels, etc. (Jeremy Scott was actually in one of those photos you showed). But indie sleaze also incorporated thrifted pieces and fast fashion. It was also very much wearing everything that you loved and thought was fashionable.
Before this scene was called Indie Sleaze we called it “Blog house”. I’ve seen people in the city calling the club/party scene Nu Sleaze but I doubt it will stick.
Sweet baby Jesus, that was a trip down nostalgia road. As an “elder millennial” I was peak doing, wearing, consuming all of this from ‘09-‘12. And yeah, when you’re in it, there’s no name for it. It’s just “what’s happening.” But, I’ve definitely noticed the same appreciative nostalgia for current music and trends coming from my “glory day party friends.” Mostly because we’re in our 40’s/late 30’s, have full time salaried/always responsible for something jobs, kids, aging, parents, and of course, are still coming to terms with how the pandemic has effected this phase of our lives.
The freedom and wild parties of 2010 simultaneously feel like yesterday and a previous life. And while there’s zero part of me that has the youth and stamina for “round 2,” I’ve been having a hell of a time showing old photos to “the kids” and being like, “yes that sequined mini skirt was actually a tube top.” 😂
But from a first hand perspective, your comment about the shift in social media, (Instagram in particular,) is spot on. I mean, the selfie was a thing before smart phones. I have plenty from college with friends. You just didn’t know if you’d taken a successful pic until it was developed and picked up. And by 2009, smart phone cameras good enough that most folks were transitioning away from digital cameras unless they had a “reason.” So, all that instant selfie tech was there, but still waiting for a real distribution vehicle. Which meant, if you were taking selfies at a party/club/concert, it was private memorabilia, not public content.
But, media knew there was a market interested in consuming said content. Not celebrity/paparazzi stuff, but pics of regular folks having the time of their lives at the warehouse party you didn’t know about. Because, it was accessible, possible. Unlike wild celebrity parties, the only reason you weren’t there is because you missed the underground memo. They weren’t stopping either. So if you saw wild pics of no-name locals being glamorized like LA celebrities and wanted in, you could easily find your way into the next “it girl photo.”
I lived in Austin at the time, (I still do,) and back then the Chronicle had a section of their online page called “The A List.” Every weekend their photographers would hit up “the best parties and concerts” to candidly document nightlife highlights, taken exactly like your example photos. And, I’m not gonna lie, finding out you made it into some of those photos felt real good on the ego.
If you think about current selfie/instagram/tictok culture, someone who’s at a party to take photos for a media publication isn’t going to be interested in someone who’s already taking pictures of theirselves. That’s not interesting content. I don’t remember when “The Austin A List” went away, (I had to become a responsible adult at some point,) but it did, probably becoming irrelevant as Instagram and influencers took over social media. Instagram removed the middle man.
However, being fully in the moment, not touching your phone, and being “chosen” by the middleman was WAY more fun. And you’re right. There can’t be an exact return to a previous era. Culture can only reference a previous era. Those wild and glorious years happened that way because our current social media landscape didn’t exist. We always cycle back to previous trends and aesthetics, but their “reincarnation” will always take place through a lens of present day technology and media.
Awesome breakdown. I really enjoyed it. ☺️
I always saw it as the elder millennial’s answer to the prevalence of Scene culture, & how we felt slightly too old to participate in it while also wanting to be a little edgier than the Hipsters.
@@kalliejupiter7018It’s interesting you say that, because after leaving this comment I found another one on here mentioning being called “Scene kids.” And I think as like….oh yeah! I remember using that! It was either “scene kids” or “scenesters.” (As a play on the word hipster.)
Also, you hit on a key reason I forgot about the label when writing this post. We didn’t self-identify as scene kids, but were often called that by others for being part of the “scene kid” family.
We knew the “true” scene kids were the youngest lot of Gen Xers who’d laid the groundwork. Ravers and early Burning Man folks from the late 90’s and early 2000’s. We didn’t invent the scene, and didn’t want to look stupid in front of folks who’d been at OG Oakenfold raves or personally knew Larry from the early days.
By ‘09, they weren’t so much going to parties as throwing them and producing events. The OG scene kids created our scene. The lack of self-identification came with a dose of “we’re not worthy.”
However, we were totally cool hating on hipsters for being fake or “trying too hard.” Apparently, our heads were still large enough to consider ourselves the taste police.
Fortunately, turning 30 made pretty much everyone I knew way less insufferable. Lol
😂❤😂
They were pretty fantastic glory days, though.
This was so beautifully written, I feel like you could turn this comment into an article of sorts
@@frithfiverThanks! I’ve just been having a brilliant stroll down memory lane.
You know, the one with drugs and glitter on the floor…lol
my fellow Tegan and Sara fans please come out of the woodwork for this one
Yesss 🙌🏽
Believe it or not rocking skinnies with a leather jacket or american apparel hoodie was the biggest ‘f the man’ thing you could do back then - besides sneaking out of your parents house and getting wasted on clear liquor in your buddies backyard. That era was basically the peak of a punk attitude resurgence meeting 21st century technology trends for the 1st time. There were no limits to creativity back then, as a bordering generation millenials were constantly blending influences from the 60’s/80’s/90’s. It captured lightning in a bottle. I really do think people are way too self and health consciousness for this to ever come back though, we felt sleepless/ depressed and disgusting back then because we were off late night fast food diets/ liquor and drugs and felt 0 need to impress the gram. What a beautiful rock bottom roll it was.
I remember the term “scene kid” was used to describe someone who dressed like this and went to shows frequently.
Yes! Scene kid or “scenester” were the words we used “back in the day.” Lol
@@courtneybrock1 yeppp. And scene kid also bled into the punk and emo scene. Although there was a lot of variety in the music, it all sort of became one visual stylistic mash by the end.
which reminds me... I miss electroclash 🥲
Yes but rhag was more for as you said the people going to shows.
Some people were more art centric, some more fashion forward, some more dramatic arts and film. Lots of writers. LOTS of political activists.
The hipsters.
nah but when my sister was getting ready in 2008 my mom always used to say: We already did that in the 80s. Trends come and go eventually
@@sickkirby Omg my parents used to say this too and they’re so right, everything really does come back- wild to be old enough to start to watch it happen
I mean, we were wearing members only jackets taken from our grandparents' closets and thrift stores 😂
I’m so glad you mentioned Saltburn in this. Indie Sleaze is such a specific and hard-to-pin-down era/aesthetic. Saltburn perfectly captures the look, vibe, and era.
This can never work. First off, we have lost our sense of community and in a society where every person thinks they're a main character and lives in their own world, this will be turned into just another aesthetics competition between influencers. Also it was pretty exclusionary when I used to be a part of it but at least you were allowed to have some quirky features. Now everyone who doesn't have an instagram face is deemed unattractive and is automatically discriminated against. And I am convinced that this will be another style hogged by the super attractive people who will just use it to parade around in their "uniqueness" and narcissism. There is definitely no fun in that.
As a teenager right now i genuinely CANT WAIT to see what name future teens come up with for this era. I genuinely have no idea what to classify this whole nostalgia craze as mostly because to me atleast it does look like nothing original. But im sure future generations will see the diffrences and give us way more praise than we probably deserve lmao 😭
I live in Montreal as a Genz and the city is so indie sleaze. The core of it really is just enjoying yourself, getting a digital camera, and living in the moment.
I personally think, the cyclical nature of these eras, is so that people can process and reflect on the reality they just lived, and so that younger generations can understand and experience the context that came before them. I think it’s an amazing thing that happens in humanity. Because when I was younger I wanted to participate is so many aesthetics, that I truly resonated with, and the fact that now we can do that, with more research, more ethics and more inclusion, its truly beautiful to me.
Need a video on preppy. I heard boat shoes r coming back and im so confused bc i wouldve been so embarrassed to wear those in high school lol it gives vinyard vines to me!
@@victoria-e omggg I used to wear them all the time! There was a point in MS/HS where the “uniform” was like Sperrys, plaid Bermuda shorts and a matching tee/ polo… we were all looking like professional ass kids 😭
the more i reflect on this and what we called it, I think I was just hearing "hipster" around a lot at the time, though hipster can also lean a tiny bit toward a cleaner-cut approach to this look. i'm glad for indie sleaze as a term.
I think the comments that say “it’s just hipster that’s what we called it” touch on the fact that back then, there were not an infinite # niche categories to identify with, we just were identified with being anti mainstream. And there was a million different ways that that could look. I’m 30 and started college in 2012 so I was maybe a little young for some of this.. but I very much feel like the hipster stereotype of people with mustaches and a pretentious attitude would ALSO go to the club and party and listen to icona pop “idc I love it.” There was a lot of overlap, at least for me.. people had their extroverted and introverted sides to them and would pull out the leather jacket one night and then would dress like a grandma to go the coffee shop the next morning
Thanks for this vid! Brought back some great and not so great memories for me. I listened to a lot of experimental electronic back in the late 00’s/early 10’s. I was in my early 20’s during this time and always called this music low-if indie electronic or chill wave.
I listened to A LOT of Neon Indian, Unknown Mortal Orchestra, Justice, MIA, Santigold, Empire Of The Sun, Crystal Castles, The Knife, and Memory Cassette.
Also, the Nasty Gal website was a huge inspiration for me style wise. I still listen to all this music to this day and still dress in vintage fashion so I guess I’ve never left this era.. haha.
The only term I heard used for this aesthetic or culture was hipster, which I got called and didn’t like at the time. To be completely honest I kinda like the description of indie sleaze.. It describes it quite nicely.
This brought back so many memories. Great work on the vid. I’m all emotional 😭
@@Kolya-chu thank you so much for this- I’m really glad you enjoyed the video 🫶🏾
It was good for it's time, but it simply can't return in the way it used to be. There might be some artists who are independent and have their own version of it, but corporations, as always, try to make it squeaky clean for mass consumption.
Edit: Another point I would like to add is that the growth of technology gives everyone a camera in their hands. People are more connected than ever, which makes it harder to really emulate the same vibes. But it's still cool that people are trying to emulate it.
I don't understand when people use indie sleaze references that are too mainstream. the indie aesthetic was the opposite of that. also, tumblr was important, but the tumblr girl/boy aesthetic is not indie sleaze.
This!!!
It’s funny, because I have always dressed like this and it never had a name. Interesting that it finally does and I’m finally getting props for my outfits at age 37. People used to just look at me strangely before.
I think all our perception of previous eras will always be a combination of how people who lived it recorded it and how future generations interpret it. Ie our view of ancient Greece is from recreation from people in the 1900 or western history interpreted by Hollywood. Now indie sleeze feels like how the kids of the people that lived it interpret their parents/siblings/aunts/ nosy kids ruffling through facebook albums interpret that era.
I just hope this does not mean a revival of Terry Richardson's career. I can live without that guy in pop culture again.
Okay bro slow your roll lol. OUR KIDS?
The only people that were truly living it back then and not being pathetic old people out with the youths might have little babies and toddlers now.
But their kids aren’t interpreting anything!
Indie sleaze ended in like 2016
Literally ended with trump presidency.
The difference is back then indie sleaze was a real life cultural era that was recorded online but now it's an online trend that is performed by some in real life. I don't think it's even actually indie sleaze at all just partially inspired like young Millennials were by the 80's/90's fashion
Exactlyyyy
This was definitely the "I'm rich, but want to seem relatable" look that Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen popularized in their college years... Ahhh the good ole days of Us and Star magazines. 😂
The last point you made about the 2020s recycling everything was eye opening😭 I wonder how we are gonna look back to this time in the future
1999 to 2012 were such wholesome years to grow up with pop culture ✨
The fact that "indie sleaze" (it is literally called hipster. why do ppl need to invent new words for things that have already been given a name lol?) coexisted with gangnam style won't let me sleep at night
I definitely noticed the next generation stopped drinking as heavily circa 2012 or so (when I turned 30). And there was a sharp downturn in cigarette smoking. Thus the two core pillars of indie sleaze toppled and it was no more. It's hard to get that essential sweaty pallor all day unless you're incredibly hungover.
I had a really good time during that era but nostalgia is pretty tedious so I'm happy it's moved on to something else.
I'd forgotten about the whole mixy matchy style here's me thinking it's my personal aesthetic when I'm really just trapped in millenial sock equivalent stasis.
Wow, I’m truly impressed. I think this is one of your best videos just the way you express yourself in. This was so well done while actually being thorough
@@ac9184 Thank you sooo much! I had fun on this one, lots of tween/ teen nostalgia lol
I'm 34. I never knew the term indie Sleaze at the time, but I definitely lived the lifestyle in college, through 2015. And then I moved and was broke for a while but I kept the wardrobe, collected records and books, raved when I could afford it, lived under my string lights. I always was indie, and I always will be. I still wear my eclectic vintage wardrobe. I still listen to various strains of electronica, independent radio, and the pop and rock of eras past. I'll be raving to the grave bb.
I'm seeing a lot of chat about individualism in that era but honestly this is nostalgia. Like in literally any era, there were hallmarks of the zeitgeist that lots of us wore, behaviours lots of people adopted - so many people were adopting a mood, a vibe, an attitude that was typified & glorified by Vice, NME, Popworld and all the bands staggering drunkenly through this era.
The demin miniskirt, the spray-on skinny jeans, the cheap plastic slat-blinds shades, the Libertines' Sgt Pepper BS, the self-conscious hedonism and trashedness, the bodycon dresses and Gaga heels with Myspace haircuts, the studied skeeviness and seediness of everything, the worship of Alexa Chung and Karen O, the grungy indie and dance clubs & basement bars that stayed open til 4 or 5am (London weeps for those halcyon days), the ubiquity of Urban Outfitters, the need for everything to be edgy to the point that nothing was by the end, and the cartoonishly neon, 'look how obnoxious I am' menwear vibe...
These were all trends within a scene that people were participating in. I was working in music and out all night throughout it & beyond, and the fashion, the attitude and the hedonism were all-consuming (and indeed, did consume & end the lives of more than one person I knew).
As in any era, there were some very individual people who were leading, not following, but there were also tons of folks picking up what they were putting down, and immersing themselves in the trends. Which is absolutely fine and normal. It was a scene, like so many before it - a colourful, fun, chaotic, sometimes creepy, memorable one, with some incredible music, and more than a few very dark characters (like the aforementioned Terry Richardson, shudder, and yer man from Vice who morphed into a Proud Boy) - but not as fiercely individualist or original as described in some of the comments.
What makes these sorts of aesthetics interesting is that it was hot when it first happened, it was a moment and the appeal is that its relatively a diy thing, very candid, so when ppl try nowadays try to replicate the style it gives try hard, I’m kinda over this newer generation taking early 2000s/2010 aesthetics and concepts, thinking just bc they’re referencing or replicating it that makes it cool and interesting, especially when music and pop culture in general is more corporate, manufactured and more clean cut than ever, maybe it’s cus I’m getting old so I’ve seen this era happen in real time, but it’s not appealing seeing new artists or even influencers cosplay an era they weren’t apart of, the appeal was that you were kind of a mess having fun, you probably had some issues and you went out and partied your issues away, that was a lifestyle people actually lived, mfs don’t be living like this fr lol and the ones that do live this life have public images to maintain, nobody is teetering stumbling out the club drunk as hell, smacked off drugs
Charli pulls it off because she’s a 32 year old millennial who was actually in that scene in the 00s/10s. She’s not someone younger mimicking what they see online. She lived it.
@@eauxkei702yeah she lived it but recreating it as an aesthetic for her album even still feels very costume-y and also kind of regressive, you 32 still acting like it’s spring break 2004, it gives tacky
@@LifeOfTheAngelsHer current lifestyle is due to the industry and genre she’s in, so I really have no comment on that. I’m sure if she had a 9-5 this wouldn’t be how she lives daily lol. But also nothing wrong with still partying from time to time. I’m in my 30s and I have friends that will still rave a couple times a year because why not? But I think this album was naturally next for her. She usually returns to hyper pop after releasing a more “standard” pop album or two. That said I mostly agree with your original comment. But I see the only part I responded to is edited out now so I look way OT lol.
@@richieoconnor4462I said it’s tacky to do it as an album aesthetic and that it feels costume-y, idgaf that she actually does it lol it’s still putting on for social media bc that’s what’s in
Can't we just have fun and at least experience the things we want?
until social media declines, indie sleaze seems like a front to me until i know your lore. bc no way everyone was bedrotting last week & now they’re a 365 party girl bumpin it???? and its such a rich person image bc 1) drugs & alcohol DO cost money 2) so does rehab. preppy/old money video would be a great contrast bc both just seem like two petulant rich kids lol. these will be a micro trend unlike Punk where there’s a real social ideology behind it.
so you think there are no trends in punk?
Party all weekend, bedrot all week 🙃
Pop culture has definitely been taken over by rich kids tho, and I feel like the social acceptance of hermitry has taken hold in a way that would have been unusual back then (thanks Covid). But there will always be skint kids who want to stay up late and hellraise and make scrappy music and find inventive or subversive ways of doing what they want. That's as old as the hills.
omg we're doing it again. i didn't wear much of this at the time because i was all the way punk rock, but this is giving me nostalgia anyway.
Slayyyter is ahead of the game. she deserves her flowers
STARFUCKER is the best pop record of 2023
YES couldn’t agree more!
slayyyter is definitely it and the moment!
strfkr my fav electro band
Oh my god I miss the fb photo albums of the lamest hangouts. Because I grew up in the Midwest, there would be like 30 photos of a trip to Walmart at 7pm on a school night, but somehow if you weren’t there it still gave you fomo seeing that album lol
This was during the Wild West of the internet. It was punk, raunchy, and offensive. People were posting and saying whatever they wanted. This before social media really blew up. I’m not saying it was the best time, but it was different. Everything would have gone triple platinum on Tumblr 😂
That Uffie video is probably the best indie sleeze mv
No one who lived through it called it “indie sleaze”. It’s also not going to come back authentically because teenagers are too worried about how they look and not living in the moment due to things like social media. It’s like grunge, the “2.0” is too clean cut.
It’s so crazy to see what I was raised on come back as an adult and so soon .. I loved being a nerd on the internet before everything became saturated ☺️
Oh god this is what births the "aesthetics" but I'm living for the era breakdowns. This would be 2005-2010 then 2010-2015 would be the era of swag culture, cyberpunk, vaporwave, synthwave, edgy dank meme culture, pixels, 50s florals/retro diners were popular, different variations of grunge and goth (like pastel goth and soft grunge), British, and TWEE. Pioneers would be Alexa Chung, LDR, Urban Outfitters, $uicide Boy$, Yung Lean, Cher Lloyd lmao, Nicki Minaj, Justin Bieber, Tyler The Creator, Rihanna, 1D, and the british youtubers and tumblr famous people. Then comes their creations, flourishing in 2013-2016, Supreme and EOS lipbalms everywhere.
2010-2012 just screams Kim J , Tumblr , Karmaloop, to me 😂 2005-2009 was just a whole diff vibe hella shit shifted in 2010
@@Daydreamerr13 When I think of that period the first thing that comes to my head is Kreayshawn
@@tino6440 fashooo😂😂
Yeah younger Gen-Xers and older Millennials definitely experienced the fashion and the night life at thst time it was a great time I can't lie
I'm happy for elements of indie sleaze to be back, because it generally represents a carefree attitude and it's not obsessed with money. Sitting on the floor and talking with a friend while drinking a beer was cool, you didn't need anything else. But it was VERY obsessed with alcohol and thinness.
Living this in NYC and for a stint in Europe… was legitimately legendary.
Also supremely traumatic.
As far as I can recall, the aesthetic at the time was simply called "hipster" or "indie".
I beg to differ on one thing: OG indie sleaze was not at all 90s inspired, maybe a little grungy yeah but the main thing was 80s. I would say the grimey was more 70s druggie look from movies
These "artists" are trying so hard to recreate the "candid", "effortless" and "authenticity" aesthetic
Yes. Too curated, perfect and contrived even for those who experienced it then like Sky, Ayesha, Charli, etc
I remember a phase during this time around when insta was allowing multiple images in a single post where people would purposely take and post the worst looking pictures of their "friends" on fb and insta. I remember one girl who was dating a friend who would do this to anyone she didn't like and then play it off like "it's just being real and in the moment." Even though it was so obvious she was taking nice pictures of herself at the beginning of the party and then waiting to take pics of others when they were getting tired and sloppy.
The feeling of a community is ruined by tiktok and other social media, as indie sleaze will never feel as a whole again
In a post - covid world nothing is sacred anymore😂 it’s so weird, the vibes be OFF lmao
thanks for the explanation! its actually quite interesting to see how various social phenomena and factors overlap and the external factors affect subcultures... since you metioned the recession thing i mean. unfortunately i didnt get the opportunity to fully experience that era back in the days, since i was born in 2002 xd. but for me tumblr era was the best ❤
Not directly related and this might be weird and/or parasocial, but I get secondhand frustrated when I think about how under appreciated Slayyyter, especially Starfucker is. The internet’s biggest menace Azealia Banks says that Charli is scared of/intimidated by Slayyyter, LIZ & Brooke Candy, which is why she doesn’t put them on anymore like she used to a few years ago. Maybe there’s something to that. I’ll be interested to see who Charli chooses to platform on the brat remix album.
I miss living through thissss, crazy that there's a name for it
Love your take. The reality of social media mindset and aesthetics always aiming to trim the fat will never allow previous generational moods to come back. They'd have to give up the fear of always feeling the need to be perceived in the way they hope to be. Yes, myspace and Facebook existed, but like you said they were completely raw minus the profile pic really. The whole makeup of it was being in the moment and not defaulting to stepping out of it. It was also an era of extreme non PC culture which cannot exist now for better and for worse. Indie Sleaze today is just Halloween
This is so interesting as someone in their early twenties bc now I'm excited for what this will be called in retrospect
This video bought me back to such a crazy time. The way the music hit-whether new EDM or listening to Bob Dylan & The Beatles. The way the fashion was, whether you had a quilted Chanel purse or an old oversized flannel. Wooden wedge heels with “liquid” leggings. UGH. if you wanted to look a certain way, you would actually have to do research and shop so it was actually fun!nowadays all you have to do is put your finger over someone’s picture and directly by the product, so uninspired & unoriginal. Everyone’s a carbon copy.
Indie Sleaze was the last of the originals-or at least wanna be originals😂
I had such an amazing time in my 20’s & so happy I loved this moment!!!
Omg this was my aesthetic in hs before I became part of the punk rock scene. I feel like they cross over quite a bit. Especially the drink/party culture and idgaf attitude
This was so good 👏🏾 I was late teens/early 20s for this era. What a time 🥲
its weird to see the aesthetic of it come back without a real music scene. brat was huge, but i thought the dare record didnt do enough outside of trying to sound like lcd/calvin harris, which for me is why the revival (or whatever we call it) feels so forced. the past and the present should naturally be creating something new together out of that meeting and instead it feels overly referential without much else.
this style always makes me think of highschool...I hope we never go back lol
you're always a master ICONAOMI
@@alessandro_obiso thank you 🫶🏾
i think people who are part of the indie sleaze resurgence now, people who are actively attempting to recreating, and people who lived it and/or deny a cultural moment like that could ever happen again all share this through line of romanticism that negatively impacts the experience. yes, this swag hipster boho party rocker fashion and music can only be alluded to now since we have already experienced the scene and can only return to it with retrospect, but i also feel that the experimentation, the freedom, and the feeling of being "seen" or a "somebody" can return. the hard parties can return. the candid moments and gritty living can and will return. the core of indie sleaze is living the party, letting go and being connected with others while being undeniably yourself. the only reason that core gets obfuscated is because of the only remnants of the movement being deliberate products, often ones for spectacle -- photos and music.
I think the group the hellp is a good reference for this video as well! Awesome video
Great video, so much to look at, takes me back.
Haha! I’m not sure young folks right now are quite prepared for the sleaze part of what’s being called “indie sleaze.” Like the trim figure and nonchalance of puking from “H” or the upbeat dance-all-night best-friends energy of proper “E.” People were more present and yet yearning more for escape because they didn’t have a laptop in their pocket at all times.
These kids haven’t even been properly socialized for the last half decade bc of a literal pandemic.
It’s all for the gram and the clock app.
Indie sleaze was so so so real.
What else is in the teaches of peaches?
It’s wild that what we were wearing out on a sat night now has a name. Btw, it was only a subset of ppl dressed like that, even in places like SF!
I was about a minute in and about to type this long rant about how the scene can’t come back and why. I think you did a great job at explaining the core of the scene with the flash photos, outfits and recklessness. I had this feeling that you were going to glamorize all of the “unclean” parts of the scene, which, in todays day and age would just be curated to look “unclean, unplanned” and in fact would be planned, much like fake “off guards”.
One thing I’m glad you mentioned is the emphasis on the impact of the tragedy of 9/11. It created this hole in New York that needed to be filled. I was tempted to use this as a reason why the scene can’t be revived. However, you made a good point in bringing up COVID as something that we are still suffering from. As a younger adult, I sometimes forget that we are still processing what happened, the generation that graduated around the time had an unfair reality check. We have entered hard times again and I would love to see music and a sort of “scene” come out of this. We can all relate to the feeling of isolation that has come over us and hopefully we can create something new.
Lastly, calling it indie sleaze is so modern it’s stupid. It’s just indie. And the sleaze part is this ridiculous self aware thing I’m tired of seeing. I’m tired of this self awareness and if we are going to move forward. It needs to drop
i think the rise in the drag scene of club kids again is kind of the same thing. it's this desire to create something from all of these perfect expectations crammed down your throat with your own personal twist. ppl recognize the elements bc they've been through it too, and the artists unique perspective is what makes it so impactful. think about how pretty much every decade's prominent fashions have made comebacks in the last few years, making it that much harder to define the modern style- it doesnt just drop off the face of the earth again just bc it's not trending on tiktok, people absorb it into their own styles and create something new around it. its just like the indie sleaze kids dressing to make their own statement instead of following particular rules
This is the first I’m hearing about this term. We just called it hipster.
Skins generations 1-2 are Indie Sleaze personified. Charli XCX is just the talented Effy that grew up
Love the new set-up bestie
@@nicolesherman8974 Thank u bestieee 🫶🏾
Yea the first wave of this was very organic and fun. Just from now middle age eyes the current iteration looks sorta branded and less authentic. But I wish y’all alot of fun. I think all young people deserve to have that time.
I was too young for “indie sleaze” but did remember wanting a lot of pieces from American Apparel I just remember it being called “grunge”.
Omg Slayyyter was mentioned!
I definitely think the lack of partying and socialization during the lockdowns influenced this revival. I was in my would-be peak college party days during the time of the lockdowns. As an extrovert I remember it was an extremely lonely time and I missed partying. Once society opened up I launched into partying at full force, as clearly many other people have too.
There are no poppin apartment parties in my city cus of gentrification. This was the last fun era to be for me and my friends, but literally tech bros ruined it
Also even though older gen z didn’t get to go to the clubs to party this way I can say we did at least get to have a bit of that experience by 2016 till maybe 2018. After that with the advancement of everything plus the pandemic it just won’t ever be the same here at least. I’ve heard that it’s different in Europe and I’m sure it is since we seem to be so hyper focused on fame and aesthetics
Blame the 80s and the music culture it arose from. A lot of people often forget that the 80s is what set the tone of today's pop culture especially when it relates to fashion.