Steam De-Waxing DIY - Lost Wax Casting, Burn Out Pre-Processing
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.พ. 2021
- As mentioned in our last video, about our ductless fume hood, this is how we have been de-waxing our flasks before burn out.
To see Craig Dablers original post that inspired us to purchase this and try it out. / cig--ujbvt6
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Thanks for watching! - Shannon & Dan
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Haha you’re a legend mate.
I hate having to take my flasks out the oven after heating at 200 degrees.
Been interested in the steam method for a while but didn’t know where to start.
Very very helpful. Cheers
Excellent video and glad to see this system has worked well for you.
Works great! Thank you. I have even tried skipping the first segment cause the wax is gone) worked.
Thank you for the info! Great content as always. If you mind me asking, what that burnout oven you have I need a bigger one
Ive had some success rescuing the wax ( as its crazy to burn it!) By drilling a holenin the base of my kiln and carving the firebrick to flow down, put a tray underneath and voilà!
I then wedge a broken kilnshelf under the hole to keep the heat in
Would love to see a follow-up video as to the final outcome after burnout and quench. Are there any noticeable challenges to the wax tree or final product? Any bubbles or compromised investment as a result of the steam? Impacts to the steamer with wax and the heat elements?
Thank you very much sir
Hi again, I just purchased a steamer. My question is, how soon after removing the flask from the steamer can you place it into a preheated kiln? Does the flask have to dry out overnight before placing it in a kiln? Thanks, your videos are very helpful.
Damn I'd love to try this but I just got rid of my rice steamer on a buy nothing group haha
Hi clear mind, I have a question,from north wales uk?
How long do I let it set before I put it in the steamer?
Will there be any effect on the finish? I mean, does it interfere with the investment and leave any imperfections on the finish?
I love your videos, keep them coming, soooooo valuable in information and inspiration.
Just getting running again after a couple of years sending my patterns off, and figured I'd try this, flask is burning out out now and is pretty much odourless so I won't upset the neighbors! Thanks.
does wax melt entirely?
Thanks for sharing! I have one of the old dewaxers. Ive used it a few times and it melts the red sprue wax but not the harder carving waxes out. Im wondering if the old steam dewaxer just doesn't get hot enough anymore.
Im also struggling with creating a venting system. Luckily i can vent out a window. So far I have a dryer vent tube and a fan. testing is in progress. hahah.
Unfortunately I don't have any experience with an actually de-waxer so I am not sure if its a temp, time, or other issue. The veggie steamer cleared everything out in approx 30 mins.
When we were in a home studio we had a larger fan hooked up to an old stove hood vented out a window lol. There is a shot of it in a video tour video from 2019. As long as the fan is able to draw enough air it doesn't need to be fancy.
Hi
Any ideas about where to get cheap and reliable burnout furnace? Thanks.
Great video. Will give it a try. Have you found any issues with the wax dripping through and onto the element? Thanks
Not at all. The water surrounds the element anyway so any wax just floats on top.
Looking @ making my own gold rings etc as a hobby. As a Dental Technician I've got some experience with casting, this technique seems great and very cost effective. I'm not looking to spend heaps of $ as it's a hobby. I'm only going to purchase an electric furnace for melting gold.
Do you have any advice on how I can heat up the casting ring without purchasing a Furnace for that purpose.
You will need to have both a Furnace (Melter [or a torch]) and a Kiln (Burnout Oven).
Note sure what you mean by "...heat up the casting ring without purchasing a Furnace for that purpose."
I just found your video, and it's exactly what I need. Would you kindly tell me where does the wax collect on? Is there a collection plate, or do you have to modify it to capture the molten wax. Thank you!
It falls into the water, this is not a process we use often as 95% of our work is 3D printed, but it was a cool idea that deserved to be shared.
@ClearMindJewellery I'm happy you did. It's going to be very helpful for small wax projects. Thank you!
Thanks great info here, I was wondering about steam de waxing, would be great if people were to post their experiments with different resin types to find one that works well
Most waxes have a melt temperature of 100-170F (to be fully liquid). Resins can take up until 600F to fully evacuate during a burnout (and often turn into a gas, not a liquid).
This is why at about 1:30 we had a disclaimer, so as to not disappoint our 3D printing peeps.
@@ClearMindJewellery I’ve got an idea, print in any resin, then pour a silicone mold of the cleaned up print, then inject hot wax and boom a wax duplicate! Saves money on resins and repeatable.
Yep you can print the item and mold, or simply print the mold. th-cam.com/video/Kp2vURNKhzI/w-d-xo.html
@@ClearMindJewellery brilliant! You’re a genius!
Thks from algeria
I’ll be attempting list wax soon and am currently buying all that I need. If I were to use this method, would I still need a burnout oven? Or can I save $500 and just use a steamer? Still learning.
You still need to do the burn out in order to properly setup the investment.
New to all this but I did wonder why burn all the wax out, I can understand intricate shapes that may trap the wax in sections but thought an oven or kiln just above the waxes melting point would remove a fair portion of it. I was unsure whether that could be reused or whether heating changes its properties?
So lots of pieces in your comment.
Investment needs to be properly setup with temps way higher then wax melting temps so you need to do a burnout anyway.
You can reuse wax as long as it’s clean enough.
Wax needs to be heated to be injected into molds to make the item in the first place which, again, can be done multiple times as long as it’s clean.
@@ClearMindJewelleryWhat if i used centrifugal for my casting (small plaster) do i still need to do burn out for the investment? even since the metal just shoots right thru the plaster ?
I'm curious about this process removing all the wax... What about pits and crevasses which may not directly drip down and out when melted and how does the investment hold up to stream? I thought it was water soluble...
Any remaining amount will be burned away during the burnout process, steam dewaxing for us is about lessening the load on our ventilation filtration.
It is counterintuitive as you would think it would react with the steam but it doesn't. I wouldn't submerge a flask before cast, but a little steam is fine.
@@ClearMindJewellery thank you! I'm so excited to try this!!!
So you cant do this with X-one for example?
Steam dewaxing XOne is likely to fail in our opinion.
When we attempted to melt XOne with a heat gun it took a lot of effort before we saw any melting.
A very interesting idea. A quick question tough; If you use the steaming method to get the wax out, do you still need to do the ridiculously long (6-12h) burn out process? Or can you just warm up the flask (and investment) to the desired temperature and then just cast? Or is the bur out process there for the investment (to dry it out and prepare it for the casting)?
Some people have noted successes with shortening the burnout cycle. Generally making the wax burning section shorter. But you still need to setup the investment and bring the flask to a suitable temperature. So burnout is needed.
The burnout cycle is kind of a misnomer, as the burning out of wax is really only a small part of what is happening. The long and slow ramp and soak of the investment is needed to cure and solidify the plaster into a durable mold. Or so they say... my kiln controller broke and for a while I wired it to be on or off and would just run it on for 3 hours or so and my castings came out just fine. Not the most scientific approach but it worked
@@skyedangelo3237 3hrs at what temp if I may? I may do some testing as I have a programmable and a on/off kiln.. Just bought the Steamer he links, curious if collecting the wax is an issue in the steamer as well..
@@jdedmon couldn't say as the kiln controller broke so i just wired the element directly, no thermocouple so i do t know the temp. But do you have a kiln with a ramp and soak programmable controller?
@@skyedangelo3237 I sure do.. Wasn't sure if maybe you had used a temp gun to guesstimate..
Hi, what was the approximate time to drain all the injection wax?
I think we set the timer to 30 minutes.
Thanks for your videos. I have a question: what about resin? Any ideas? TNX once more ;O)
This does not work with resins. Only wax. Although some resins are listed as 20, 30, 40 percent wax they are not actually wax but a formulation that acts like wax (generally) and so cannot be steam de-waxed. 01:37
It works great to boil out wax and keep your kiln clean. You also can do burnout with the sprue cavity upright. I have been steaming my resin prints for a while before burnout, works great for getting all the wax out. I use a pot with rocks in it to hold the flask up and tinfoil for a seal.
Hey, I tried this method but I was only able to melt the softer modeling wax, the "ferris green" didn't melt. What brand of wax are you using? I can see purple in the video but I know all ferris waxes have similar melting points
So far we have tried the Freeman purple carvable and the Ferris Pink both injection based waxes. As we usually do 2 casts in resin for every 1 in wax we just haven't had time to experiment with all of our wax types.
As you are working with a carvable block vs an injection wax you might need longer times/higher temps than we did.
-Shannon
@@ClearMindJewellery thank you very much! I will try with injection carvable waxes then, it seems that it's a matter of temperature rather than time
How much would you charge me to do a lost wax cast of a small trinket if i was to send it to you made out of the wax product of your choice? It would not need to be perfect. In fact some air bubles and imperfections would be what I would prefer.
It will depend on metal, finish, etc. Best to use our quote request form clearmindcasting.com/pages/custom-projects
After your investment has been de-waxed does it still create fumes while in the kiln in prep for casting?
The "fumes" are drastically reduced.
wonder how well a pressure cooker would do lol.
Hello sir.
while checking the comments some says it still needed to go thru burnout (to harden the investment?) WHAT IF i use centrifugal and only cast 2-3inch plaster, Can i skip the burnout? Since after smelting it will shoot right to the plaster? Will there be a problem?
So it is still recommended regardless of type of assistance method (vacuum or centrifuge) that you go through some type of burnout to evacuate the remaining wax, setup your investment and remove extra moisture, and bring your flask up to a proper temperature for active casting.
Some form of burnout is required, you might look into a rapid burnout to cut down on time.
@@ClearMindJewellery can i burnout on barbecue grillz with coals?
Although a blacksmith friend of ours once tried a burnout in their coal forge I wouldn't recommend it.. The last thing you want is a burnt spot in your invested flask that blows out when casting, especially when casting via centrifuge, yikes!
(Note: that blacksmith friend eventually sent us the casting to do. lol)
@@ClearMindJewellery how about wood on the side not on the bottom? or regular oven
When working with investment you need to have your flask at around 1000-800.F below the temperature of your metal at time of cast. You also need to get it there without shocking the flask.
Potters occasionally use wood fired kilns for their ceramic, although it is high risk and labour intensive. It may work for investment if you put some time into a kiln design.
I wouldn't make jewellery in or around areas of food prep.
I know you want a fast and easy way to get around burn out but realistically the only reliable, repeatable way to get a good burnout is with a kiln.
Keep a look out on the second hand market as we just picked one up for $175 CDN.
Interesting, I use both methods. ie resin and wax. But it is always a shame to loose all that wax. I have a question. Have you found it playing heck on your investment? I would have thought it might cause issues.
why would it cause issue if steam dewaxing?
@JayCustomGrillz steam is boiling/ water vapour . Investment is made up with exactly the right water ratio. I think it will cause flasks to break easier when under pressure on the vac
@@AceBullion what about quick burnout in the barbecue grill after steam dewaxing
@JayCustomGrillz 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Ummm heck no
@@AceBullion why not lol
How many minutes do you set the vegetable steamer for?
30
Hi...so is some type of additional collection system for the melted wax necessary? Or you just let it drain where it will?
The wax will filter down to the water and form into a puck once the steamer cools down
@@ClearMindJewellery thanks. I was wondering the same thing.
do the investment casts need to be preheated just before casting?
All flasks should go through a burnout cycle even if this de-waxing method is used. The end of the cycle should always be 1000-800•F below whatever your metal casting temp is. We have more info about burnout cycles here: th-cam.com/video/FdckYTV2rJg/w-d-xo.html
what i mean is, should the cast, after having been dewaxed, be preheated before accepting the molten metal?
Yes. I guess my first reply was very technical speak based. Yes your flask needs to go through the proper heating process after dewaxing which is the burnout process I mentioned above.
I am new to lost wax casting. Was using plaster of Paris but decided to jump my game and purchase investment powder. Jets investment powder from Hollywood, California. Everything they sent me is in metric. I am using stainless steel Cambro containers like you would see holding veggies at a restaurant salad bar. 1/6 size, 6” by 6” by 6” container. I am trying to melt/make a tennis ball sized copper skull so I am using the brass temperature on the list they sent me.
Do you know of any videos here on TH-cam that goes over the basics of curing the investment plaster, heating the investment to melt the wax out and the processes of getting the de-waxed mold up to curing temperatures???
Thanks in advance!
I haven't heard of that investment before but generally all investment companies should be sending a burnout schedule, mixing ratios, and safety data sheet with their product. I am not sure what you mean by using a "brass temp" for the investment. Like I said above there should be a set burnout schedule for the investment, the only part that will change is what temp you come down to at the end of the burnout cycle, which will depend on the metal you cast.
I don't have a video to recommend. We haven't gone over it in a video as the process will change with the investment brand and again usually the instructions are listed. (But we might have to film one now)
-Shannon
@@ClearMindJewellery
Thank you for replying so quickly! I am first going to melt copper down. Since pure copper is not listed on the melt temps for this brand of investment powder, I went with the brass temps as this should be fairly close. I will be using my kitchen oven to melt the wax out but to get the temperature I need to bring the mold up to temps, I’ve discovered that my knock-off version of the Green Egg grill can get extremely hot.
If you do not mind, which investment powder brand would you suggest for ease of use/instructions/pricing?
Yes, that would be great if you could make a video on melting the wax out followed by explaining the burn times on investments as I have tried to find videos on this and really, nothing. It’s just everyone showing the same thing... mixing and pouring the investment into their containers and some even show them vacuuming out the bubbles and this is where they end the video.
Nobody explains the process of heat curing the plaster.
Thank you for your expertise and time!
Usually the temps you need are in the 1300 range so I don't think what your describing will manage, or be safe. I wouldn't recommend using your home oven due to wax fumes.
We use R&R investment as they have a lot of options and are reliable. They arn't the best priced.
The reason most people haven't made videos explaining burnout is, again, because most brands include burnout schedules outlining temps for the entire process. Resin companies that sell castable resin now also send burnout instructions so making a video about it is sometimes redundant. We will look into doing an overview video of the process though. -Shannon
@@ClearMindJewellery
I do understand! Once again, thank you! I’ve subscribed to your channel and will continue to watch your videos
Don´t you introduce moisture into the plaster ?
Not enough to be detrimental to the investment.
@@ClearMindJewellery Sounds good, fair enough ^^
I will be trying lost polymer cast soon as well, wish me luck because it will most likely fail.
It is 100% of the wax dissepear ?
We haven't done a weight comparison to definitively say it's 100% but we would estimate that it's above 80% and only small pieces of wax and residue remain. Steam de-waxing for us it about reducing the work load for our ventilation, so it doesn't need to be perfect.
For How long? Please
We did it for about 25-30 minutes as we were doing other things.
@@ClearMindJewellery thanks
the steam has a lot of silica - don't breath the steam