I mean I'm from the country where if you cycle with the wind in your back for 15 minutes from any point you end up in Germany or Belgium so I can't even comprehend a country as large as the United States let alone place things accurately within it!
Hej, Hilbert! I have visited the museum in Alexandria, Minnesota, that has the Kensington Rune Stone as part of its displays. Most interesting. I also spent my formative years in Sweden, speak and teach Swedish, and studied Nordiska språk at Uppsala Universitet. I agree with nearly 100% of the scholars and armatures who have investigated this item: It is most definitely a genuine stone. Beyond that, I'll let people have their fun and imagine what might have been. PS: Love your videos, especially those dealing with English, Nordic and Baltic history. Keep up the good work!
I’m from Minnesota. I have Norwegian ancestry and am extremely proud of it. My biggest passion is anything related to Vikings or Norwegian stuff. With that being said, I’m self taught in Old Norse and the runic language. When I visited the Kensington Runestone exhibit, I was so ready to see how fake and wrong it was... but when I got there, the museum was so elaborate and I almost believed it when I left... but then continued my studies and went back to the same conclusion that it’s just a fraud/hoax. As much as I wish for it to be true... it’s so easy to tell that it’s not. I encourage all of you to visit the amazing state of Minnesota and also check out the Kensington Runestone yourself... it’s still pretty cool. The whole town of Alexandria is Viking/Scandinavian styled so it’s very cute and cool.
I'm of Swedish decent from Chicago for the first 40 years of my life and the last 20 have been at the mouth of the Columbia River in Astoria on the Oregon coast where there's a huge Scandinavian fest every year. I bet you'd enjoy yourself here if you took a vacation. Swedes and Danes are more numerous than the Icelandic but there are lots of Norwegian but probably HALF the Scandanavian population is Finnish.
You'd have a hard time convincing all the Finns HERE! LOL - There are plenty of Laplander Ruski's that also claim to be Scandinavian too - and the ones that aren't the aboriginal tribal folks' sure LOOK Scandahoovian! During the festival here the town is covered in the five flags of Norway Sweden Denmark Iceland and Finnland. There's a Finnish Suomi Hall and an old Finnish bath building left over from the 1920's when this town was full of canneries and Chinese til the KKK chased them out. Astoria has a wild history. Shanghi'd sailors and opium dens. Lots of Vaudeville and Burlesque theaters. .
You aren't confusing Götaland [jøːt̪al̪and] and Gotland [ɡɔt̪l̪and] are you? Götaland is south of Svealand and north of Skåneland. Gotland (previously Gutland) is the island east of Sweden. Also, feel free to correct my IPA if it's wrong, my point was to show that Götaland is pronounced with a soft g, whereas Gotland is supposed to pe pronounced with a hard g.
I am from Alexandria where the stone is currently located. We use to have class field trips to the museum and discussed the controversy surrounding it. Pretty cool to check out nonetheless.
There's no controversy. Debunked. Check out Jackson Crawford's video on the subject. He's a scholar in the general field and has no axe to grind, except a quest for accuracy.
Götaland is the southern middle of Sweden parted in two, east and west Götaland. From here the geats (götar) Game from and THE originate long before any King in Sweden took power and United svear, götar and One more I've forgotten
That is if we can contact him somewhere out in the rockies, with only his camera and his translation of the poetic Edda, talking about some topic of the Norse Gods and Heroes...
I have been there to see the Kensington Stone, in Alexandria, Minnesota. It's very convincing, really. The sad story is how the family suffered for it. They were ridiculed all through the years. I'd say, if they were looking for positive notoriety, they most definitely did NOT get it. There are other inscriptions found through out the U.S., much shorter, and just as suspect. So interesting! Thanks for this video!!
It's not convincing at all. It's literally laughed at. It's language is 400 years off. It's so absolutely fake. Norse linguistic experts compare it to a "WTF, OMG, #ruinstone" 😂😂
Just to be a bit nitpicky; the rune talked about Götaland, not Gotland which is the island you talked about. Götaland is a part of the mainland and is usually devided into Västra Götaland and Östra Götaland.
Hilbert, fantastic video as usual. But you did get the island, Gotland, mixed up with Götaland, today which would be Småland, Östergötland/East Gothland and Västergötland/West Gothland. If they were from Gotland, the runestone would have said eight Gutes instead of eight Geats, as the former is someone from Gotland whilst the later is someone from Götaland.
Did anyone notice that according to the map in the opening few seconds, Kensingtington, Minnesota is a suburb of Indianapolis, Indiana? For those who don't know, (cough, Hilbert, cough) Minnesota is the the place just at the top center of the map where the little pointy bit is tickling Canada's underbelly.
I think you might have made a mistake on where the runestone claims they are from. Götaland is a part of mainland Sweden, the island is called Gotland. People from Gotland are called gutar, not götar. The main ethnic groups in mainland Sweden at the time would be götar (from the south) and svear (from the northeast). If the stone really says götalanders (sounds more English though) then that should mean they are götar from Götaland, not gutar from Gotland.
Hey Hilbert, A very nicely put together and interesting video as always! However, @2:40 stating the Norse Greenlanders "ultimately failed due to hostile natives" is a bit lacking in nuance. The Nordic settlements vanished largely due to the decline of Greenland's importance as a trade hub - primarily for ivory and the subsequent lack of support going to the settlements and immigration back to Denmark, Iceland and Norway.
You have no idea where Minnesota is, obviously. Or where Lake Winnipeg is, or the fact that Lake Winnipeg is not considered one of the Great Lakes. The water route to Minnesota is through the St. Lawrence seaway and Lake Ontario, Lake Erie, Lake Huron, and then Lake Superior. But they still would've had to travel from Duluth overland to Alexandria, which is about 200 miles.
The actual theory is that they went through Hudson Bay, through a bunch of rivers... then somehow made it to the Red River and then flowed south until they reached Kensington, Minnesota. Trust me, I've been to the museum.
The island you refer to at the end is Gotland, which was inhabited by ”Gutar”. The people mentioned in the video derived from, if they did in fact exist, Götaland, a part of the Swedish mainland.
LuvBorderCollies Oh yeah I actually live right there. I cross that river everyday. What that was, was a ship owned by some Mormons, during the time when Mormons were persecuted against. I don't recall why but it went down.
From my understanding of the runes in Sweden is that the changes were not very consistent at all and that some parts didn't upgrade for generations to what had been the accepted changes in many other parts of that land. SOME cases beings pretty extreme as far as being "behind the times" and some changes never quite taking hold at all from region to region. In fact, this seems to have been the rule rather than the exception.
That's an interesting point to make, I guess it totally depends on who carved the runes and where they were from etc. - if it isn't a fake that is which to me seems likely it was.
I'm not sold on it as being legit but I guess it could be possible. Not convinced either way. One argument against it is that the Vikings didn't even start playing in the NFL til 1961 (arg arg arg) I really enjoy your posts! Keep up the good work! Oh yeah - the spot where Kensington is marked on the above map is much closer to Indianapolis than Minneapolis. That small spike into Canada to the Northwest is Minnesota.
Great video! Thanks Hilbert! I can forgive not knowing where Minnesota is on the map...I mean they're basically Canadians, you just wanted your dot firmly in the U.S.! :)
Many wrongs in your work. No tension between Sweden and Norway during the shift where we gave them independence. Also all swedes at the time of Olaf learned the runes but your assumption is wrong about specific runes being used in local areas of Sweden. We have approximately 3000 runestones here from the 700s and forward. Ö is also found a dearly as 11-12th century due to immigration from the south in the shape of Christian missionaries.
As this was well beyond the Viking Age, I doubt these were "vikings". I like the theory that they were Templars, the Knights Templar was founded on Gotland, they used runes (including some fairly unique ones seen on other Templar runic inscriptions). After Jaques DeMolay was arrested the Templar Fleet vanished, as the Templars had access to Norse maps, they would have known about Vinland. The King of France couldn't touch them there. A Templar captain, named Sinclair is alleged to have lead an expedition from Scotland. The Micmacs remember his fleets arrival and claim his men taught them how to make fishnets. In Maine there is a stone with graven stone images of the "winged canoes" (not Viking knarrs but multimasted ships). A runestone used to be in Narragansett Bay, till someone stole it with a front end loader, it had the characteristic Templar Runes. In Weston Mass, on Depot rd. there is a cenotaph called "The Weston Knight" where the image of a knight with shield and helm can be seen chiseled into the stone. This is said to be the stone of a knight named Gunn, who sailed with Sinclair. There are many stones, telling tales that have been found, no doubt there are more yet to be seen, each one telling a little more about the story. I just hope they catch the SOB who stole the Narragansett runestone.
I have always found this story fascinating and thrilling, even if its fake or not. Perfect material for a movie, isn't it? :) Götalanders may refer to the province in the middle of Sweden named Götaland, and not the island of Gotland.
I just want to add, you can't directly sail from the Atlantic to most of the Great Lakes; there's this thing called Niagara Falls, which makes this Vikings in Minnesota theory even more unbelievable. As always you did a fine job on this video. Keep it up! 😉
The actual theory is that they went through Hudson Bay, then through a bunch of rivers... then somehow made it to the Red River and then flowed south until they reached Kensington, Minnesota. Trust me, I've been to the museum.
@history with hilbert you know the red and yellow flag(now used as the flag of the Swedish church) is the flag of the calmar union and not the Swedish-Norwegian union. what used a swedish or norwegian flag with a norwegian/swedish flag mashup in the top left corner depening on what country you were from.
Actually, it wasn't Olof Ohman that found the Runestone, but his 10 year old son. His son spotted it first while they were removing a tree in their field. This fact is conveniently ignored by almost every critic on the subject. Instead, the critics say that Olof claimed to have found the Runestone, and don't even mention his son. This is critical because his son was not only another witness to the actual discovery, but was the one who found it.
@@BurnBird1 I know, Ohman could have put it there to have his son find it. But it changed my outlook on it. Years later, his son said when he found it, he remembered it was wrapped around heavily in tree roots, as though it had been in the roots for many years. So that means if Ohman faked it and put it there, he not only hid it in the roots, but had to take time putting the roots around it. And his son said he was there the whole time they were taking the tree down and he didn't do that. He said his father was called a liar for many years and he knew he told the truth. He was very upset with the way his father was treated.
@@rjwalker4153 I find it more likely that his son was either in on it, or had false memories inserted after the fact, considering that he was a child. They could have found it by a fallen tree with a bit of dirt over it, then as the years went by, the roots became more and more entangled to the stone and the dirt covering it larger and larger in volume, in the mind of this kid as he grew up, with his dad telling him about it. The above is just to give Edward the benefit of the doubt. Whether or not his son spoke the truth, the stone is a fake, since nothing about it makes sense, not the language of the stone, the runes used, the time it was supposed to have been carved in, where it was found, nor even the alleged reason for it having been carved. There's also the fact that I find it extremely unlikely that the stone would be found in an area of land that just so happened to be heavily settled by Scandinavians and found by a man with a knowledge of runes, as well as runic traits unique to his home region of Sweden being present on the stone. The human mind is easily fooled, and being told that your wrong about something that you remember vividly, only reinforces those memories and you're likely to incorporate the details of others with the same memories. Just look up how easily people can have false memories inserted into their memories, now imagine that your told your whole life about how a certain even went down. Having his family be called liars and not wanting to believe that his dad was conman would probably entrenched the sons belief in his father's narrative. Once again, this is giving Edward Öhman the benefit of the doubt that he's not lying about his father's discovery.
@@BurnBird1 You seem well versed on the subject, I'll give you that. And yes, those are two other possibities. I read the book on it by Scott Wolter and Richard Nielsen, but that was all. Have you read that book ?
@@BurnBird1 do you know many Scandinavians? Generally they are self-deprecating to a fault (I have met a few Danes that disprove this😂) My point being, they are highly unlikely to want to stand out in a crowd or make a fuss/scene. It is ingrained in their culture. My father is like this, his father was like this, I am like this..it is referred to as Jantelagen or “the law of Jante”. If you found an antiquity on your property, perhaps you might research it as well, hence the book? Also, there is a high probability that a Swede would be found in Minnesota……..I would guess 30-40%
"Eight Götalanders......" It means they are from Götaland which is the west coast side of Sweden. If they were from the island of Gotland, they would have been called Gutar (In Old Swedish) or Gotlänningar (Modern Swedish). Gotland is pronounced with a a hard G, whereas Götaland is pronounced with a soft sounding G. No ill will intended, just wanted to give some feedback. Interesting video, keep em coming.
After this incident, it would only be fair for your US viewers to put a dot on a map of Europe where they think the Netherlands is. I'm going with somewhere in southeast Poland.
Being an American with a PROUD Scandinavian (Danish) heritage I really, really want the Kensington Runestone to be real but it's way to much of a coincidence to be authentic.
Me and you are in the same boat, buddy. Norwegian Minnesotan over here, Skål! Have you ever seen the Kensington Runestone yourself? Although it's most likely fake, it's still cool and worth visiting. The museum is nice and so is the local area of Alexandria.
Ian Langsev Skål, my Scandihoovian brother! LOL, my wife is Norske! Even though I believe the Kensington Runestone to be a fake I would love to see it!
Nantz Stein I've watched just about every documentary on the Kensington Runestone. It wasn't until History Channel's, America Unearthed with Scott Wolter did an episode on it at that point I was convinced it was a FAKE. I will check out the ThuleanPerspective I'm always up to hear a "new perspective" on the Kensington Runestone.
Nantz Stein In addition to being proud of my Danish Heritage I also count it a BLESSING to be a Christian and follower of Jesus Christ. Yeah... The ThuleanPerspective is definitely not something I would put any "stock" into.
How much do I owe you? I've been looking for it forever haha. Also, I'm from Minnesota, and the Kensington Runestone (although we're pretty certain it's fabricated), is a huge source of pride in my area. I don't live near where it was discovered, but the runestone is taught about in our sixth grade history classes.
Seems unlikely. You have a runic inscription, massive in length and using anachronistic letters and syntax, being created by some Vikings who just discovered that their comrades were murdered in a place that must have been the middle of nowhere to them. Why would they even be in Minnesota in the first place? How would they get there? Why would they get there? How would the renegade Greenlanders they were after get there? Why would the renegades get there? How would the Vikings know? Why is there no other record or any basic clue? Is it a coincidence that the runestone happened to be found by a Swedish man in pretty much the only part of the U.S. where Scandinavian Americans are close to the majority of the population? Occam's razor says no. Excellent video, as usual.
Lots of Swedes in Minnesota so that's hardly that surprising. They would get there through the great lakes, where there's already some evidence that they had been. They could have gone there for the same reason Swedish emmigrants did.
Si te gustarías puedes poner subtitulos en mis videos - pero no tengo el tiempo hacerlo para ti lo siento! Sin embargo estoy trabajando para hacer algunos videos totalmente en español sobre temas del mundo y historia hispanohablante. Te amo tio!
I know this isn't he right place to ask this but idk where else.. It's about ethnicity. So I'm 26.6% Northwestern European, and 17.7% English(Great britain). Aren't the english germanic? So wouldn't that make me 44.3% Northwestern european?
The Kensington runestone is way too convenient to be anything other than a clever forgery. It just happens to be found where Scandanavian settlers have made a home for themselves in the US? Also, way too far inland. I've lived on the Ontario/Manitoba border just north of Minnesota and the waterways simply aren't navigable for any length of distance except by small canoes or kayaks, which only the natives at the time had. When then they would have to carry them from stream to stream, and even then not all of the lakes are connected. There is simply no way Vikings would have reached as far as they had without using both native equipment and extensive use of friendly Native guides, and there's is only very questionable evidence for peaceful interactions with First Nations people. The one known Viking settlement in N. America at L'anse aux Meadows, with actual verified archaeological remains, and the other posited ones on the eastern coast of North America have nothing approaching the complexity of the Kensington runestone We have the remains of sod longhouses, iron implements like scissors and knives, some coins, things of that nature, iron slag dated to the 1000sAD. Absolutely no detailed written account like you find on the Kensington runestone.
Minnesota has a lot of Nordic roots precisely because it's very similar to Scandinavia in terms of climate. So it's not strange that a Swedish person found it. The dotted R makes it extremely unlikely to be a fake. Plus there's overwhelming physical evidence that also proves it's genuine.
I met a dude in the bar who's grandpa is Norwegian, he had mentioned that his grandpa's property in Minnesota his grandfather found a viking age Sword 🗡️ 🤷🏻
6:00 correction the island of gottland is probably not were they came from they probably came from the region of götaland in southern sweden as they where referred to as "götalanders" and not something like "gottlanders"
Physical evidence proves it's not a fake. Plus the dotted R is another obvious sign it's real. This is just another case of historians not wanting to believe something because it doesn't fit their narrative.
Proclaimed by the narrow minded idiot named Martin. By the way, its not Viking whatsoever. Its actually Knights Templar in origin. Boom! You're welcome.
Did Kensington get moved over to Indiana? According the first map it looks like it. ;-) This must be a test for the viewers on geography. I passed since I've always liked geography! :))
Well there’s a caveat to that though. History is generally the story taught by the conquering party. So going back and revising based on new evidence isn’t always a bad thing or inaccurate.
Hey, "Götlanders" are geats, götar, from götaland which is western sweden south of Oslo and around the big lakes and across to the east coast there. Gotland, the island is a different thing, off the east coast of Sweden. Götarna have a different history than the swedes (svearna) if you go back far like during the viking age, and in the 1000s and 1100s, and they where generally more closely affiliated with the norwegians than the swedes during a lot of that time. Gotlänningar =/= götar.
Only... götaland and gotland aint the same. Götaland is part of the swedish western mainland, while gotland is an island to the east of the mainland in the baltic sea. Gotland was a center for trade and not known for much exploring past being the rus that founded citys like kiev in the viking era. Gotland had only been part of sweden for about 100 years in 1362, had their own language and was heavily under the under the infuence of german traders (hansan).
Black Templar - If I recall correctly, there are records in Iceland of Leif Erickson's exploits in the new world where the native Americans are referred to as skraeling. The current belief among historians is that there were both friendly and unfriendly meetings between the Americans and Norse in Greenland and Newfoundland, but that unfriendly meetings were more common.
Of course it *"only"* entered the Scandinavian language because of the Dutch... Just rename the channel to Dutch History With Hilbert already - It's not like anybody will be surprised if you actually do.
History With Hilbert ...ignore the whining from the hyper-sensitive types. Critics are never happy with anything even though they produce nothing themselves except annoying noises.
People who say that the runestone is fake even though there’s so much evidence has the same iq as people who say that the earth is flat despite all the proof.
that's not where Minnesota is on the first map you showed
Oh hecc the History with Hilbert mapwork strikes again
im just saying like
that's reaaaaaaaaaaaaally off the mark. That's like in Illinoise
More like Missouri!
I was thinking the same thing
I mean I'm from the country where if you cycle with the wind in your back for 15 minutes from any point you end up in Germany or Belgium so I can't even comprehend a country as large as the United States let alone place things accurately within it!
Interestingly enough, Minnesota has a fairly Scandinavian population today, dontcha know. Darn tootin'.
Uff da!!
Was that your friend in the wood chipper there?
LOL ... they certainly have an understated way of talking. My favorite is: Some people wouldn't weld next to a 300gal gas tank.
Lots of Swedes and Norwegians if I recall!
Mainly Norwegian but still a fair amount of Swedes.
I like how Kensington is not only not marked anywhere near the right area but it’s marked in a different spot every time you put a map on screen.
Hey, this is a pretty interesting episode of Alternate History Hub
Hey guys, this is Cody...
he did use the alt history hub music 1:02
Einstien And Enfield History With Hilbert LOL! You guys just made my day!
History With Hilbert A Yorkshire Cody? Wow what a plot twist
0:02 You're placing of Kensington, MN was pretty far off. You placed it in what seems like southern Indiana.
I thought the same
Hej, Hilbert! I have visited the museum in Alexandria, Minnesota, that has the Kensington Rune Stone as part of its displays. Most interesting. I also spent my formative years in Sweden, speak and teach Swedish, and studied Nordiska språk at Uppsala Universitet. I agree with nearly 100% of the scholars and armatures who have investigated this item: It is most definitely a genuine stone. Beyond that, I'll let people have their fun and imagine what might have been.
PS: Love your videos, especially those dealing with English, Nordic and Baltic history. Keep up the good work!
Good video, Hilbert. Your content always comes out so good!
Cheers man!
I’m from Minnesota. I have Norwegian ancestry and am extremely proud of it. My biggest passion is anything related to Vikings or Norwegian stuff. With that being said, I’m self taught in Old Norse and the runic language. When I visited the Kensington Runestone exhibit, I was so ready to see how fake and wrong it was... but when I got there, the museum was so elaborate and I almost believed it when I left... but then continued my studies and went back to the same conclusion that it’s just a fraud/hoax.
As much as I wish for it to be true... it’s so easy to tell that it’s not. I encourage all of you to visit the amazing state of Minnesota and also check out the Kensington Runestone yourself... it’s still pretty cool. The whole town of Alexandria is Viking/Scandinavian styled so it’s very cute and cool.
It's a shame sometimes and it's interesting to do the alternate history but it does look like the bulk of the evidence is pointing to it being a fake.
I'm of Swedish decent from Chicago for the first 40 years of my life and the last 20 have been at the mouth of the Columbia River in Astoria on the Oregon coast where there's a huge Scandinavian fest every year. I bet you'd enjoy yourself here if you took a vacation. Swedes and Danes are more numerous than the Icelandic but there are lots of Norwegian but probably HALF the Scandanavian population is Finnish.
You'd have a hard time convincing all the Finns HERE! LOL - There are plenty of Laplander Ruski's that also claim to be Scandinavian too - and the ones that aren't the aboriginal tribal folks' sure LOOK Scandahoovian! During the festival here the town is covered in the five flags of Norway Sweden Denmark Iceland and Finnland. There's a Finnish Suomi Hall and an old Finnish bath building left over from the 1920's when this town was full of canneries and Chinese til the KKK chased them out. Astoria has a wild history. Shanghi'd sailors and opium dens. Lots of Vaudeville and Burlesque theaters. .
Karl Nordquist Any faroese there?
The dotted R proves it's not a fake. The odds of that being a coincidence is next to impossible.
I wonder how many times a day Dr. Crawford gets asked about this. I’d love to see you two do a live stream. Fun vid.
Thank you!
Awesome video as always! Shout-out from Minnesota!
Cheers man!
Ayyy, Minnesota is the best state of all. Love that some other Minnesotans besides me watch this channel. Skål!
You aren't confusing Götaland [jøːt̪al̪and] and Gotland [ɡɔt̪l̪and] are you? Götaland is south of Svealand and north of Skåneland. Gotland (previously Gutland) is the island east of Sweden. Also, feel free to correct my IPA if it's wrong, my point was to show that Götaland is pronounced with a soft g, whereas Gotland is supposed to pe pronounced with a hard g.
What's an IPA?
You are correct
I am from Alexandria where the stone is currently located. We use to have class field trips to the museum and discussed the controversy surrounding it. Pretty cool to check out nonetheless.
There's no controversy. Debunked. Check out Jackson Crawford's video on the subject. He's a scholar in the general field and has no axe to grind, except a quest for accuracy.
Götalanders are likely refering to Götaland in southen sweden, and not the island of Gotland.
ger du Gautar. The ø is equally anachronistic.
Götaland is the southern middle of Sweden parted in two, east and west Götaland. From here the geats (götar) Game from and THE originate long before any King in Sweden took power and United svear, götar and One more I've forgotten
@@SkyHighGame Gutar tror jag är ordet du söker.
A Dutch-Yorkshire conspiracy...
The best kind
History With Hilbert The most confusing old kinds.
Oh, so Kensington MN is in southern Illinois?
And the runestone is clearly a fake.
I would say Indiana or Ohio, but that maps all jacked up so who knows!
Missed it by that much!
I was about to say that cuz i’m from MN
Alvin chang Me too, may dad brought me to the 'museum' where it was kept when I was a kid.
The physical evidence supports the authenticity of the Kensington Runestone.
Checkout Scott Wolters investigation of the artifact.
We need Jackson Crawford on this
That is if we can contact him somewhere out in the rockies, with only his camera and his translation of the poetic Edda, talking about some topic of the Norse Gods and Heroes...
Wonder how he can upload so far away like that.. I call Magic..
I have been there to see the Kensington Stone, in Alexandria, Minnesota. It's very convincing, really. The sad story is how the family suffered for it. They were ridiculed all through the years. I'd say, if they were looking for positive notoriety, they most definitely did NOT get it. There are other inscriptions found through out the U.S., much shorter, and just as suspect. So interesting! Thanks for this video!!
It is the real deal.
It's not convincing at all. It's literally laughed at. It's language is 400 years off. It's so absolutely fake. Norse linguistic experts compare it to a "WTF, OMG, #ruinstone" 😂😂
Awesome love your videos, and this one is close to home for me
Awesome, thanks!
Just to be a bit nitpicky; the rune talked about Götaland, not Gotland which is the island you talked about. Götaland is a part of the mainland and is usually devided into Västra Götaland and Östra Götaland.
Hilbert, fantastic video as usual. But you did get the island, Gotland, mixed up with Götaland, today which would be Småland, Östergötland/East Gothland and Västergötland/West Gothland. If they were from Gotland, the runestone would have said eight Gutes instead of eight Geats, as the former is someone from Gotland whilst the later is someone from Götaland.
Did anyone notice that according to the map in the opening few seconds, Kensingtington, Minnesota is a suburb of Indianapolis, Indiana? For those who don't know, (cough, Hilbert, cough) Minnesota is the the place just at the top center of the map where the little pointy bit is tickling Canada's underbelly.
Viking ships have been found here in Minnesota, although they were all purple and decorated with footballs.
I think you might have made a mistake on where the runestone claims they are from. Götaland is a part of mainland Sweden, the island is called Gotland. People from Gotland are called gutar, not götar. The main ethnic groups in mainland Sweden at the time would be götar (from the south) and svear (from the northeast). If the stone really says götalanders (sounds more English though) then that should mean they are götar from Götaland, not gutar from Gotland.
Hey Hilbert,
A very nicely put together and interesting video as always! However, @2:40 stating the Norse Greenlanders "ultimately failed due to hostile natives" is a bit lacking in nuance. The Nordic settlements vanished largely due to the decline of Greenland's importance as a trade hub - primarily for ivory and the subsequent lack of support going to the settlements and immigration back to Denmark, Iceland and Norway.
One should also add that Greenland was seeing some the effects of the Little Ice Age causing it to be even less hospitable.
You have no idea where Minnesota is, obviously. Or where Lake Winnipeg is, or the fact that Lake Winnipeg is not considered one of the Great Lakes. The water route to Minnesota is through the St. Lawrence seaway and Lake Ontario, Lake Erie, Lake Huron, and then Lake Superior. But they still would've had to travel from Duluth overland to Alexandria, which is about 200 miles.
The actual theory is that they went through Hudson Bay, through a bunch of rivers... then somehow made it to the Red River and then flowed south until they reached Kensington, Minnesota. Trust me, I've been to the museum.
The island you refer to at the end is Gotland, which was inhabited by ”Gutar”. The people mentioned in the video derived from, if they did in fact exist, Götaland, a part of the Swedish mainland.
Wasn’t there more recently some story about a Viking ship found in the Mississippi?
Ooo I need to look into that :)
Only ship I'm aware of was found near Kansas City. That was the remnants of a steamer that sank in the 1800's. That sank in the Missouri River.
LuvBorderCollies Oh yeah I actually live right there. I cross that river everyday. What that was, was a ship owned by some Mormons, during the time when Mormons were persecuted against. I don't recall why but it went down.
Aldan Lacy here is the one I was thinking of. www.wimp.com/scientists-find-perfectly-preserved-cargo-inside-this-150-year-old-sunken-steamboat/
Come for the Steamboat Arabia museum.. stay much longer for the WW1 national museum.
B-)
From my understanding of the runes in Sweden is that the changes were not very consistent at all and that some parts didn't upgrade for generations to what had been the accepted changes in many other parts of that land. SOME cases beings pretty extreme as far as being "behind the times" and some changes never quite taking hold at all from region to region. In fact, this seems to have been the rule rather than the exception.
That's an interesting point to make, I guess it totally depends on who carved the runes and where they were from etc. - if it isn't a fake that is which to me seems likely it was.
I'm not sold on it as being legit but I guess it could be possible. Not convinced either way. One argument against it is that the Vikings didn't even start playing in the NFL til 1961 (arg arg arg) I really enjoy your posts! Keep up the good work! Oh yeah - the spot where Kensington is marked on the above map is much closer to Indianapolis than Minneapolis. That small spike into Canada to the Northwest is Minnesota.
Well THAT makes sense. The first time I saw a documentary on the stone I thought it was Tolkiens Dwarf runes! (J/K)
Why let an islander dictate false history while evidence proves him wrong?
Wish the Vikes had made it into preUSA Minnesota or Wisconsin... Great vid. Ty!
They did
6:35 What is the runestone found 2005 called?
Minnesota borders Lake Superior and Canada. Your dot is about Missouri.
Good video Hilbert, but Götaland is not an island, it’s the soutern region in Sweden. I think u mean Gotland, because that is an island!
small complaint. the first map with the dot isnt in minnesota. Were more north and to the west.
good video though.
didn't people find a Viking
longship in the missasippi
river or was a hoax
Great video! Thanks Hilbert! I can forgive not knowing where Minnesota is on the map...I mean they're basically Canadians, you just wanted your dot firmly in the U.S.! :)
Many wrongs in your work. No tension between Sweden and Norway during the shift where we gave them independence. Also all swedes at the time of Olaf learned the runes but your assumption is wrong about specific runes being used in local areas of Sweden. We have approximately 3000 runestones here from the 700s and forward. Ö is also found a dearly as 11-12th century due to immigration from the south in the shape of Christian missionaries.
As this was well beyond the Viking Age, I doubt these were "vikings". I like the theory that they were Templars, the Knights Templar was founded on Gotland, they used runes (including some fairly unique ones seen on other Templar runic inscriptions). After Jaques DeMolay was arrested the Templar Fleet vanished, as the Templars had access to Norse maps, they would have known about Vinland. The King of France couldn't touch them there.
A Templar captain, named Sinclair is alleged to have lead an expedition from Scotland. The Micmacs remember his fleets arrival and claim his men taught them how to make fishnets. In Maine there is a stone with graven stone images of the "winged canoes" (not Viking knarrs but multimasted ships). A runestone used to be in Narragansett Bay, till someone stole it with a front end loader, it had the characteristic Templar Runes. In Weston Mass, on Depot rd. there is a cenotaph called "The Weston Knight" where the image of a knight with shield and helm can be seen chiseled into the stone. This is said to be the stone of a knight named Gunn, who sailed with Sinclair.
There are many stones, telling tales that have been found, no doubt there are more yet to be seen, each one telling a little more about the story.
I just hope they catch the SOB who stole the Narragansett runestone.
great video
Cheers man!
1362 is around 300 years after the viking age ended, long after the viking setlers in north America left
I have always found this story fascinating and thrilling, even if its fake or not. Perfect material for a movie, isn't it? :)
Götalanders may refer to the province in the middle of Sweden named Götaland, and not the island of Gotland.
I just want to add, you can't directly sail from the Atlantic to most of the Great Lakes; there's this thing called Niagara Falls, which makes this Vikings in Minnesota theory even more unbelievable. As always you did a fine job on this video. Keep it up! 😉
They took the Erie(ckson) Canal to get around the falls.
The actual theory is that they went through Hudson Bay, then through a bunch of rivers... then somehow made it to the Red River and then flowed south until they reached Kensington, Minnesota. Trust me, I've been to the museum.
Yes, they went through the Hudson Bay. Lots of medieval Norse artifacts have been found in Minnesota.
@history with hilbert you know the red and yellow flag(now used as the flag of the Swedish church) is the flag of the calmar union and not the Swedish-Norwegian union. what used a swedish or norwegian flag with a norwegian/swedish flag mashup in the top left corner depening on what country you were from.
1300s is a little late for this, but it is interesting to think if it happened.
For sure!
Actually, it wasn't Olof Ohman that found the Runestone, but his 10 year old son. His son spotted it first while they were removing a tree in their field. This fact is conveniently ignored by almost every critic on the subject. Instead, the critics say that Olof claimed to have found the Runestone, and don't even mention his son. This is critical because his son was not only another witness to the actual discovery, but was the one who found it.
As if that changes anything.
@@BurnBird1 I know, Ohman could have put it there to have his son find it. But it changed my outlook on it. Years later, his son said when he found it, he remembered it was wrapped around heavily in tree roots, as though it had been in the roots for many years. So that means if Ohman faked it and put it there, he not only hid it in the roots, but had to take time putting the roots around it. And his son said he was there the whole time they were taking the tree down and he didn't do that. He said his father was called a liar for many years and he knew he told the truth. He was very upset with the way his father was treated.
@@rjwalker4153 I find it more likely that his son was either in on it, or had false memories inserted after the fact, considering that he was a child. They could have found it by a fallen tree with a bit of dirt over it, then as the years went by, the roots became more and more entangled to the stone and the dirt covering it larger and larger in volume, in the mind of this kid as he grew up, with his dad telling him about it.
The above is just to give Edward the benefit of the doubt. Whether or not his son spoke the truth, the stone is a fake, since nothing about it makes sense, not the language of the stone, the runes used, the time it was supposed to have been carved in, where it was found, nor even the alleged reason for it having been carved.
There's also the fact that I find it extremely unlikely that the stone would be found in an area of land that just so happened to be heavily settled by Scandinavians and found by a man with a knowledge of runes, as well as runic traits unique to his home region of Sweden being present on the stone.
The human mind is easily fooled, and being told that your wrong about something that you remember vividly, only reinforces those memories and you're likely to incorporate the details of others with the same memories. Just look up how easily people can have false memories inserted into their memories, now imagine that your told your whole life about how a certain even went down. Having his family be called liars and not wanting to believe that his dad was conman would probably entrenched the sons belief in his father's narrative. Once again, this is giving Edward Öhman the benefit of the doubt that he's not lying about his father's discovery.
@@BurnBird1 You seem well versed on the subject, I'll give you that. And yes, those are two other possibities. I read the book on it by Scott Wolter and Richard Nielsen, but that was all. Have you read that book ?
@@BurnBird1 do you know many Scandinavians? Generally they are self-deprecating to a fault (I have met a few Danes that disprove this😂) My point being, they are highly unlikely to want to stand out in a crowd or make a fuss/scene. It is ingrained in their culture. My father is like this, his father was like this, I am like this..it is referred to as Jantelagen or “the law of Jante”.
If you found an antiquity on your property, perhaps you might research it as well, hence the book?
Also, there is a high probability that a Swede would be found in Minnesota……..I would guess 30-40%
Thanks Hilbert, fascinating.
You're very welcome!
OMG they have no idea where Minnesota is!
"Eight Götalanders......" It means they are from Götaland which is the west coast side of Sweden. If they were from the island of Gotland, they would have been called Gutar (In Old Swedish) or Gotlänningar (Modern Swedish). Gotland is pronounced with a a hard G, whereas Götaland is pronounced with a soft sounding G. No ill will intended, just wanted to give some feedback. Interesting video, keep em coming.
After this incident, it would only be fair for your US viewers to put a dot on a map of Europe where they think the Netherlands is. I'm going with somewhere in southeast Poland.
Too easy. Look for the mouth of the Rijn and there it is. Not all Americans are dumb inner city idiots.
James H idiot
Lol it borders Belgium
I'm going to need to make another US History video with a dot placed perfectly where it is on the map.
I could easily put a dot on where the Netherlands is...
Being an American with a PROUD Scandinavian (Danish) heritage I really, really want the Kensington Runestone to be real but it's way to much of a coincidence to be authentic.
Me and you are in the same boat, buddy. Norwegian Minnesotan over here, Skål! Have you ever seen the Kensington Runestone yourself? Although it's most likely fake, it's still cool and worth visiting. The museum is nice and so is the local area of Alexandria.
You should be watching *ThuleanPerspective* by now... and it's no coincidence the "discovery" of The New Continent happened after the "Reconquista"..
Ian Langsev Skål, my Scandihoovian brother! LOL, my wife is Norske! Even though I believe the Kensington Runestone to be a fake I would love to see it!
Nantz Stein I've watched just about every documentary on the Kensington Runestone. It wasn't until History Channel's, America Unearthed with Scott Wolter did an episode on it at that point I was convinced it was a FAKE. I will check out the ThuleanPerspective I'm always up to hear a "new perspective" on the Kensington Runestone.
Nantz Stein In addition to being proud of my Danish Heritage I also count it a BLESSING to be a Christian and follower of Jesus Christ. Yeah... The ThuleanPerspective is definitely not something I would put any "stock" into.
0:01 best part 😂
Your map put Kensington in Indiana, not Minnesota.
What song starts 4:35?
It's Teller of the Tale by Kevin MacLeod :)
How much do I owe you? I've been looking for it forever haha.
Also, I'm from Minnesota, and the Kensington Runestone (although we're pretty certain it's fabricated), is a huge source of pride in my area. I don't live near where it was discovered, but the runestone is taught about in our sixth grade history classes.
Nice job on the pronunciations tho ik lots of Europeans struggle with native names
Messed up the maps but I appreciate the compliment haha
You're missing the entire Great Lakes.
Despite most likely being fake, the talent to make is impressive, That guy was a great troll
By 1362 the Viking Era had been OVER for just over 300 years. Even if it's real, Vikings had Nothing to do with it.
Seems unlikely.
You have a runic inscription, massive in length and using anachronistic letters and syntax, being created by some Vikings who just discovered that their comrades were murdered in a place that must have been the middle of nowhere to them. Why would they even be in Minnesota in the first place? How would they get there? Why would they get there? How would the renegade Greenlanders they were after get there? Why would the renegades get there? How would the Vikings know? Why is there no other record or any basic clue? Is it a coincidence that the runestone happened to be found by a Swedish man in pretty much the only part of the U.S. where Scandinavian Americans are close to the majority of the population?
Occam's razor says no.
Excellent video, as usual.
Lots of Swedes in Minnesota so that's hardly that surprising. They would get there through the great lakes, where there's already some evidence that they had been. They could have gone there for the same reason Swedish emmigrants did.
Interesting how the guy who discovered it was from Sweden. In all seriousness tho. So much lost history. Seems only stone lasts the test of time
Necesito que estos vídeos tengan subtitulos en español porque se ven super interesantes y tienen una estética re linda PERO NO ENTIENDO UN CARAJO!
Si te gustarías puedes poner subtitulos en mis videos - pero no tengo el tiempo hacerlo para ti lo siento! Sin embargo estoy trabajando para hacer algunos videos totalmente en español sobre temas del mundo y historia hispanohablante. Te amo tio!
History With Hilbert Jaja, gracias por rsponder, ahre.
Que buena noticia saber que vas hacer vídeos para el mundo hispanohablante!
Gracias! :D
You could chill out. I don't freak out over not understanding other languages.
I heard it is fake. Apparently the runes and syntax do not match or relate to other inscriptions.
You've placed Kensington, MN somewhere in Illinois, I think...
The stone is almost certainly fake.
I know this isn't he right place to ask this but idk where else.. It's about ethnicity. So I'm 26.6% Northwestern European, and 17.7% English(Great britain). Aren't the english germanic? So wouldn't that make me 44.3% Northwestern european?
The Kensington runestone is way too convenient to be anything other than a clever forgery. It just happens to be found where Scandanavian settlers have made a home for themselves in the US? Also, way too far inland. I've lived on the Ontario/Manitoba border just north of Minnesota and the waterways simply aren't navigable for any length of distance except by small canoes or kayaks, which only the natives at the time had. When then they would have to carry them from stream to stream, and even then not all of the lakes are connected.
There is simply no way Vikings would have reached as far as they had without using both native equipment and extensive use of friendly Native guides, and there's is only very questionable evidence for peaceful interactions with First Nations people.
The one known Viking settlement in N. America at L'anse aux Meadows, with actual verified archaeological remains, and the other posited ones on the eastern coast of North America have nothing approaching the complexity of the Kensington runestone We have the remains of sod longhouses, iron implements like scissors and knives, some coins, things of that nature, iron slag dated to the 1000sAD. Absolutely no detailed written account like you find on the Kensington runestone.
Minnesota has a lot of Nordic roots precisely because it's very similar to Scandinavia in terms of climate. So it's not strange that a Swedish person found it. The dotted R makes it extremely unlikely to be a fake. Plus there's overwhelming physical evidence that also proves it's genuine.
I met a dude in the bar who's grandpa is Norwegian, he had mentioned that his grandpa's property in Minnesota his grandfather found a viking age Sword 🗡️ 🤷🏻
That first map makes Kensington look like it's in Illinois/Kentucky
0:01 that point on the map is in Illinois, not Minnesota
You are confusing Götaland with Gotland, those two are different places and only Gotland is an island
Ah right, thanks for the correction!
6:00 correction the island of gottland is probably not were they came from they probably came from the region of götaland in southern sweden as they where referred to as "götalanders" and not something like "gottlanders"
I honestly thinks it's a fake and what could be used to support it is a coincidence
Physical evidence proves it's not a fake. Plus the dotted R is another obvious sign it's real. This is just another case of historians not wanting to believe something because it doesn't fit their narrative.
Im not too sure, but I think u should change "vikings" to "Norsemen"
How convenient that a Swedish man finds a Swedish viking stone in the middle of nowhere, and some how manged to navigate passed so many native tribes.
Proclaimed by the narrow minded idiot named Martin. By the way, its not Viking whatsoever. Its actually Knights Templar in origin. Boom! You're welcome.
That is waaay off from Minnesota
Smells fishy.
Great story for the local morning news :))
Thats not Minnesota
There is a stone in Arkansas too
And Oklahoma
Did Kensington get moved over to Indiana? According the first map it looks like it. ;-) This must be a test for the viewers on geography. I passed since I've always liked geography! :))
It a not da only one found.
What about the RARE 10th c. norway silver coin found at the old Maine trading place???
It sickens me when people try to rewrite history for their own gain
Tell me about it!
Well there’s a caveat to that though. History is generally the story taught by the conquering party. So going back and revising based on new evidence isn’t always a bad thing or inaccurate.
google, "1362 Enigma " for the full story.
The old Scandinavians, would never use numbers, to write the year.They would say year in this or this kings reign.
Well obviously they did.
A strange theory, Could it have been from "Newfoundland" and some of the natives stole/found it and it traded hands a few times?
Possible but unlikely given how heave the stone is.
@@asdf3568 fair.
@patrik tapper A shame.
All I know is their's Viking settlements in Newfoundland
Why is this slow guy talking with marbles in his mouth?
Leif Erickson’s faint image is on back of the stone.
Hey, "Götlanders" are geats, götar, from götaland which is western sweden south of Oslo and around the big lakes and across to the east coast there. Gotland, the island is a different thing, off the east coast of Sweden. Götarna have a different history than the swedes (svearna) if you go back far like during the viking age, and in the 1000s and 1100s, and they where generally more closely affiliated with the norwegians than the swedes during a lot of that time.
Gotlänningar =/= götar.
Put the star in minasota not Kentucky
Only... götaland and gotland aint the same. Götaland is part of the swedish western mainland, while gotland is an island to the east of the mainland in the baltic sea. Gotland was a center for trade and not known for much exploring past being the rus that founded citys like kiev in the viking era.
Gotland had only been part of sweden for about 100 years in 1362, had their own language and was heavily under the under the infuence of german traders (hansan).
Truth.
If he studied runes, wouldn't misspellings be an argument against it being fake since he would have known the proper grammar?
jk lol
Unless he was a bad student and not as "fluent" as a "native" rune carver?
Press the "read more" thing ಠ_ಠ
@@martynkalendar Fakk af.
There are dots above a yr 1000 rune stone in Gotland that look like the ö
3:44 Moose emoticon
What was the name? Bård Knudson? Baard?
I agree that this is probably a hoax.
would be quite intresting if they would ever find a small skirmish between the indians and normans
Black Templar - If I recall correctly, there are records in Iceland of Leif Erickson's exploits in the new world where the native Americans are referred to as skraeling. The current belief among historians is that there were both friendly and unfriendly meetings between the Americans and Norse in Greenland and Newfoundland, but that unfriendly meetings were more common.
Of course it *"only"* entered the Scandinavian language because of the Dutch... Just rename the channel to Dutch History With Hilbert already - It's not like anybody will be surprised if you actually do.
AlucardNoir - I was disappointed we didn't get to hear The Wilhelmus. 🇳🇱🦁🇳🇱
Hahaha I HAD to get it in there ;)
History With Hilbert ...ignore the whining from the hyper-sensitive types. Critics are never happy with anything even though they produce nothing themselves except annoying noises.
People who say that the runestone is fake even though there’s so much evidence has the same iq as people who say that the earth is flat despite all the proof.
Did you mean it the other way around?
Honestly I think he took the rune stone from his homeland. And that would make it real, but not found in the US.
Hilbert should have a discord server
4:30 WILHELMUS VAN NASSOUWE...!!!