I just finished my Torri speakers. I grabbed a Emotiva TA1 integrated to power them. My mind is blown! What the hell have you got me into man? 😂. I’m not an audiophile, this is my first hi fi system. But, to an average guy, I literally can’t believe my ears. Thanks for the good content. You helped me set up a nice starter system. Ps my Fluance RT 83 is on the way. Time to see what vinyl is all about!
Hey Randy.. since you already built a bunch of these, how about you do a build video.. its not too different from other speakers kits i know.. but it would be nice to mix things up sometimes and do stuff other than just reviews.. it might also help someone whos not too tool savvy and wants to build that same speaker..
FYI, thats not a woven carbon fiber cone, it's woven glass fiber. Still a very good fiber for cones - it has the least amount of elongation before breakage, so it produces a very hard and stiff cone with some self-damping due to the fiber composite structure. Carbon's a bit lighter but a lot more expensive, and it's common to see glass fiber or black Kevlar (aramid) fiber used instead of carbon fiber. (Sometimes even still called "carbon" fiber...)
Thanks to your review of the Torii, I per-ordered it. Just finished assembling my Torii Speakers From CSS. Must say that I am impressed. This is my first time at DIY and their Flatback needs some work as well as the circuit board lay out. Also some misfit with the connectors to the Input speaker connects and the speaker terminals themselves. There is AS LOT of base, maybe too much. No need for a sub woofer in a smaller room. The Mid range is the best I've heard after listening to Klipcse R50ii, The Triangle Br03s, The Sony SC whatever and The Airmotiva B1+. The treble isn't as clear as the B1+ but the Soft Dome sounds good enough. I'll trade the great bass and mid range for the clarity any time. Thanks for being the first to review it, keep up the good work!!
Congresscritters quaked in fear if Admiral Hyman Rickover was on the way to their office to make them give him what was needed for the SSN part of the US Navy.
Nice review! I really like what CSS is doing with the crossover 3D printed crossover board, great way to remove some of the barriers of entry of DIY speaker building. The lower price point is also exactly what CSS needed in my opinion to get more people to make the leap to DIY. Also idk if you've done it before but a build video from someone like yourself that isn't an expect wood worker would be good preceptive for anyone thinking of getting a kit like this so you should consider doing that for the next build.
Hey Audioman! I've been watching your channel for about a year now. I have been looking at doing a speaker build and your enthusiasm sold me on this product. I sent CSS a note to tell them they owe you a huge thanks. If they don't send you one, I will cancel the order. : ). Jk I will send pics when the project is completed. Thanks again!
I love CSS having built the 2TDX. and they're worth the extra money for the flat packs. The cuts at fit are precision. Bsss is fantastic. Yes, not bright but not really lacking, just never annoying with harsh recordings. You'll get lost in the music rather than picking apart the recording.
Hi Randy , fit and finish is the hardest part of DIY speaker building . Self build or kit is my passion , I recently found out that some $1,000 speakers had a $18 tweeter in it ❕love your work and vids 👍
Inexpensive drivers can sound good but it takes a designer's know-how to get the best from them. I built a set of speakers using 4 dollar midranges and 9 dollar woofers, and a decent little planar ribbon tweeter (the 'splurge' of the project), and spent some quality time tuning the crossover until I couldn't do any more damage, and they're some of the most fun speakers I own - even though I own 'reference' quality speakers from companies like Thiel that are admittedly more technically perfect.
One thing I love about CSS is the quality of their drivers. You pull a woofer out of a Criton and compare it to a factory speaker or another kit speaker and it tells you all you need to know
I'm building my first kit right now (overnight sensations)! Having sooooo much fun! Its a holiday project, and they will be my first pair of good speakers (not logitech level stuff). I've learned a lot of new stuff and skills. Tomorrow I'm learning and practicing veneering, then time to veneer my speakers and apply my finish😁. So excited, I'm already proud of these things and I'm not even done yet! Listing to them will be so much fun! (Powered by an aiyima a07 btw, thanks for all the reviews Randy!)
@@briansimmons5363 ah, I don't have paperbacked, I've got some non backed Ovangkol veneer, I'm painting my front baffle black, rest will be veneered using the iron on method hopefully, trying some scrap wood and offcut pieces tomorrow to test how the finish will look 😀 That's valuable information non the less, if I ever want to make a new pair for somewhere / someone else, or even stuff with similar radius.
Joints where one metal meets another is super important, ideally soldered to stop intermittent conection. Cermet volume controls are the best usable pots I ever used. The great contact made the system jump out without having to think about it.
Randy, I'd like to thank you for your recommendation. I bought the Polk TSi100 per your recommendation and paired them with my Polk HTS 12 along with my trusty Yamaha HTR 5730 I bought from a pawn shop a few years ago for $30. This setup is for my music studio office and, well, damn, I am blown away by those TSi100's. I'm about 50 miles north of DFW the next time I'm down that way, it sure would be nice to treat you to a coffee/lunch.
Great vid. I love this company - I built a pair of the 1tdx speakers and they are quite the upgrade from RP600Ms. I feel you on the finish. I tried 5 times to get a perfect application of a matte polyurethane - impossible. The slightest build up on an edge ruins it. If you sand the problem area it becomes glossy and you ruin the matte finish. They're pretty good, but I'll probably take another stab at it when I get time. Thanks for all the great content, I was looking forward to this one. When you unboxed them I knew they were CSS.
You probably need to do the coats using a "fine furniture finishing" pad. Which is a soft special lint-free cotton cloth cyou can buy online from furniture restoration supply places. THen this is wrapped around some other cotton like old t-shirt material to make a little "bundle". Then you do lots of very thin coats of varnish, thinned down. It is the only thing which works. Apart from some special spray booths I guess. You can follow the other instructions for french polishing like using multiple grades of sandpaper, using microfibre cloth to get the last of the dust out of the woodgrain, then doing a "grain fill", then starting the varnish/shellac/plolyurethane coating. Yeah, tedious, but you get that "deep" look to the varnish. Look up French Polishing. Best way to get the varnish onto the pad is to use a small "squeeze bottle" with a long tip and nozzle, sort of like the ones PVA wood glue comes in. Oh, or look up "guitar painting" and DON'T use an orbital sander ;-) getting the swirls out is a nightmare. Random sanders are a bit better but go gentle! I wrecked a table I was restoring by going through the veneer, it is thin!
Hi, as a pro , flat pack is so much better, modify as you want, the time which is caused and sometimes frustration for the newbies flatpack is the way to go. What I would recommend is rounding the corners and adding structural mass to damp in the cabinets even more which is something manufacturers cannot do easily vis-à-vis cost and shipping
Looks like my desktop setup is getting a Sith Audio cable upgrade between the DAC and amp! Come on now, how could anyone say no to CAM Snake Oil RCA cables at such a deep discount? In all seriousness this is a fun way to help support the channel, and will have me grinning every time I see the logo. Thanks for putting this one together Randy!
Randy, another excellent video! Thanks. I was an enlisted puke as well; despite the 4 sets of speakers in the house - I'm going to have to build a pair of Torii's.
Just ordered a pair of JBLA130s and now I want these. I need to get a 2 channel amp and dac instead of always using my home theater setup though. Thanks for all the work
Check out the painted finishes on Triangle, Project and Monitor Audio speakers. They look great in a matte paint finish. You can save yourself a lot of work veneering by spraying the MDF with a heavy cover automotive primer, sanding smooth and painting them your color of choice. Believe me. I built three CSS kits and veneer is a PITA.
@@foblivio A wild guess would be at least one primer can and one finish can per speaker. Depending on how much paint is available. Maybe $40 but I'm guessing. Cheap veneer with glue etc would cost about $75 depending on what you got. I think you could cover the two speakers with a half 4'x4' sheet of something like plain oak for maybe $60 for materials but then you need a router, bits, files, and an iron not to mention an orbital sander. In theory you could hand sand the primer but an orbital sander would be quicker and less work. The issue would be sealing the MDF into a smooth surface. Might just be better in the long run to get the Baltic birch laminate if they make a flat pack in that material. There are special automotive primers that go on thick with the purpose of filling flaws and providing a substantial sanding surface. Check out an automotive paint specialty store. You can get a good education on paint surfaces by watching the TH-cam videos by the guys who paint guitars.
HI Randy, thanks a lot for your content, thanks to you I avoided buying super expensive amplifier and tower speakers. instead I got an Onkyo 696 receiver and a pair of polk es20 signature series. And man the sound is just butter to my ears. thanks a lot for the reviews and guidance
Sam, if you want to improve sound quality for music significantly, upgrade your receiver to almost any two-channel amplifier. I have a 20-year old Onkyo 602 for my downstairs home theater and it does a pretty good job for both music and surround sound for movies and TV. When my upstairs Denon AVR died, I replaced it with an Onkyo 686, which is pretty close to identical to your 696, without a couple of the “latest and greatest” new features. It does an outstanding job with all of the various surround sound modes using either a Roku or a Blu-Ray player as a source, plus handles video switching terrifically. However, when I sat down to listen to some CDs, it was clear that the Onkyo was doing a poor job. The music was thinner-sounding, had vague imaging and lost detail. On Dire Straits’ Private Investigations, the wine glass breaking and the cat crying were indistinct, and whereas in the past with my old Rotel and Marantz receivers, and to a lesser extent with the Denon, one could hear and follow the crisp footsteps across the soundstage; with the Onkyo, the steps were muddled and basically centered between the speakers (a pair of custom large bookshelves with the same drivers and sound characteristics as the Thiel CS1.6). I almost decided to get an amp switcher and pick up a used Rotel integrated amp just for listening to music, but since the start of the pandemic I have been working from home and I have put together a nice home office two channel system for music. My newer Onkyo really does a stellar job for surround sound to accompany video, and for that reason and its ease of use within the home theater system, I’m glad I bought it. But when I pulled it out of the box I noticed that despite having the same or more channels as my older Onkyo. , it seemed to weigh quite a bit less, and that is almost never a good sign for sound quality.
lol I love that your first real Sith audio product is cables with snake oil written on them. Forget the sonic debate, I like their flexibility and I appreciate good quality connectors and jacketing etc. It sounds like the disparity of detail between this kit and Emotiva offerings isn't enough to have an unpleasant experience.
I know you’ve heard it time and time and time again, but I’d love to see you reading off the details of the Sith Audio cables from a very unprepared list-off sheet that probably has a coffee stain, and really just softballing it in all the way, and knowing you’re doing it while it’s happening.
The cables are fun! If you've made a less than perfect job of veneering your CSS speakers, simply make sure everyone wears dark sunglasses indoors and no one will notice.
CAM another stellar video and the cables look awesome. I get the idea that you may have dabbled in the black art of amateur speaker design and construction. If so, this is an affliction that we share. As a victim of this disorder I am a sponge for as much technical data(tuning frequency, driver parameters, crossover frequency and order, etc.) as I can get on successful designs. I bet I'm not the only one in your audience that would welcome more detail on these great designs. It could be an advantage in getting and keeping the fickle TH-cam audience.....I, of course , am already hopelessly hooked. Thanks again for the life you inject into this whole audio hobby!!!
@@cheapaudioman Yeah, kits are not to be scoffed at. They still allow the builder to incorporate their ideas on enclosure construction(double thicknessing the baffle, bracing, etc.) and crossover(going with higher grade inductors, caps, resistors, wiring etc.) and still be assured of a pleasant outcome. Also, and maybe most importantly, aesthetics(warning: speakerbuilding can lead to an interest in and ultimately addiction to woodworking). Again thanks for your effort!
Re: Rickover. One of my great grandmothers locked my mother and her younger brother in a pitch black closet for hours at a time. This was to rehearse their being smuggled out of North Korea in a pitch black compartment on a freighter.
What a fantastic channel! Thanks AudioMan! (your not cheap) Vid idea! What’s a balanced cost/benefit DAC set up for a home theater set up? and are there ant that will do surround?
Randy - I know about as much about hifi stuff as i know about astrophysics, which is to say, almost nothing. Appreciate the education you provide. Given my ignorance, I came across a song that struck me as a potentially good test track. Pleasure Model by Nosia & Former... I've played the song with different EQ settings and it is crazy how much different detail comes out across the song depending on the EQ. Anyhoo. Thanks again for all the info you share with us.
You must have known I was going to ask you to compare with Emotiva B2+, as that is the speaker I'm leaning towards. I definitely need more precise high end with hearing issues than really great bass...thanks. My old tower which I built had 15 inch JBLs with matching passive radiators. Nothing would match that bass, but I don't have that size room anymore and the clear highs are more important now.
Suggestions if you plan on building these plan on routing the front sharp edges given such has a tendency to cause sonic issues. As the Mid and Bass frequency tends to wrap around the front surface sharp edges cause diffraction issues.
Why would you do this? Go read a ham radio book to see why this is a bit silly. If you do that, why don't you measure the wavelength of the cable, and build an impedance matching network to tune your speaker's SWR to 1:1 so there are no cable losses. Seriously, it is physics not magic.
Randy, since you are doing kit speakers, you might be interested in the Pass Amp Camp Amps. I have a pair in one of my systems that I run in Mono with a Schiit Valhalla as a pre-amp, a Bluesound Node 2i and an Ares ii with Zu Dirty Weekend Speakers and it is fantastic. Can’t get Pass Class A sound any cheaper!
@@cheapaudioman What for, For disagreeing with one thing you reviewed? not gonna lie, that's kinda unusual man. i've even bought things based on your reviews , but does that mean that i should agree with evey single thing that you review? can't we have a healthy debate on certain topics? i'm not trying to stir trouble, i'm seriously curious why this is such an issue?
I guess I am not understanding. Lets assume you purchase the flat pack when you buy the speakers, because most will. CNC cut MDF is a good idea in a kit like this. Is the sound really that much better than a pair of Emotiva Airmotiv B1+ bookshelf speakers that the parts alone cost 25+% more than the complete B1+ speakers? Price wise these compete more directly with the B2+'s I guess, but I know the B1+ is a well regarded example of a bookshelf speaker. Erin actually preferred the B1+ to the B2+, quantifying the B2+'s shortcomings. I also don't understand the crossover plastic "board" piece. Including a crossover PCB would add at most a dollar or two of additional cost. One or two layer PCBs a couple of inches per side are cheap, especially when you buy 100 or 250 at a time. And you could print the part descriptions right on the silkscreen layer of the board. I'm down with a veteran owned company. I just don't see the value proposition. I'm a guy who DIYs everything. But I just don't think I'd buy these considering a pair of B1+'s are $100 less. If I'm building it myself, I'm expecting to save money or get a considerably better end product. I work on my cars to save money. I work on my house to spend my budget on materials, not materials and labor, which gets me a better end product than if I paid someone to do the work. If I built my own speakers for $400, I would expect them to compete with $500 or $600 speakers. I'm happy to be wrong but I'd want to see some more evidence.
3D printed board is to help folks who have never built a speaker before. Or a crossover. B1+ sounds quite a bit different. Drivers are also different. Kits aren’t for everyone. But comparing two factory speakers against each other he difficult enough. Comparing one to a kit is also difficult. Apples and oranges
@@cheapaudioman I agree about the 3D printed board - the goal is to make it easier. If this was a PCB it would be even easier than the plastic board because the connections are built into the PCB and it would cost nearly the same. Just put the parts in their designated spots, solder them down and clip the leads. No additional connections necessary. This is how almost all electronics are built commercially. The parts have designated, labeled spots and a person puts them into those spots (for low volume through hole assemblies at least). This is a minor detail though. The sound is what matters. Aren't these all speakers? Why can't you compare a pair of well built CSS Torii's against a pair of Emotiva B1+'s? Sure things can go wrong building a kit, but assuming the kit is built well, why can't a sound quality comparison to any other bookshelf speaker be made? Sure they sound different than the Emotivas, but different how? Do the Torii's sound $100 better? I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm just saying for $100 more PLUS the effort to build these the kit speakers should easily out perform an off the shelf pair that cost significantly less. Presumably when you buy a kit you are buying better components than what you would get in a similarly priced off the shelf speaker. Is that the case here for $100 more than the Emotiva B1+'s? For $379 in parts I would expect a kit that rivals $500 pairs of off the shelf speakers. Otherwise the value proposition isn't there and this kit is charging you extra to have you put it together. Again, I am happy to be wrong.
@@Fix_It_Again_Tony agreed. 3D printing is much more costly than buying a stack of PCBs, it was never meant for mass production. Anyone can do that from a number of websites. That said either would work for me but I'd definitely prefer a PCB.
What would happen if you chose to for-go the port and build these as an acoustic suspension build? I'm sure it would result in less bass, but would it offer greater midrange clarity? These look like a great deal overall.
You get higher quality bass in a well made sealed design. You just make sure that you build the loudspeaker cabinet free of exhibiting resonance distortions, and free of resonance distortions from the drive units and crossover. In a two way passive transducer you do not want it to go down lower than a maximum of 70 to 60hz, other wise you will be sacrificing a possible clean undistorted sound capability. You too must always have clean current amplification, enough for the loudspeaker transducers not to produce any nasty distortions for the application needed. If you do not design them well and with enough clean power, you will not be able to play them at up to 85db with the peak higher levels in the music.
First I was disappointed but,...breake in over 100 hours and did put them quite high, my ears are between woofer and tweeter ( but there is good vertical space to move does not need to be exact), makes big difference. Having cheap stands but filled with kitty sand (the heaviest type), As the stends are only 24 inches, I did put under them baskets from hard wood and thin cotton textile between floor and that, and also between wood and spike terminals. making about 6 - 7 inches + . I did try different baskets which are used under computer screen, they are made up from softer material and the result is also not that good. And yes some good space from back wall. The result is very very nice. Using naim amplifier 2x70 w bought second hand. If I just put them on 24 inch stands, the result is not good, is better even if I have woofer at ear level. Maybee usfull info for sombody. Experimenting does make more difference than I thought it can....
Curious as to that answer too! Got an open box blem of Uni-Fi Reference coming Sat ($600!). And then I saw this! Had been considering the Criton or XLS Encore but the cost was stopping me.
dont have these but i have the 1tdx. before i had unify reference, carinas and velas in the end. got them all cheap since there are a lot on german craigslist. the 1tdx sounds better than the velas or any of the others. that being said, the elacs are also very good. the carinas have a great sparkle with high notes. the velas are just crystal clear and add bass over the carinas.
Any suggestions on a good online source for interesting wood veneers? About how much would it cost to add say a walnut or Rosewood veneer to speakers of this size? Thanks
Walnut is super cheap. Pricing will depend on whether you do raw or paper backed. You have to buy more at once with paper backed but it can be easier for someone new to veneer. Try Oakwood Veneer and Veneer Supplies. Enough raw walnut to do these speakers would be $30-40 most likely.
This is the 5th css audio kit i have built and all have gone well and sound awesome. I messed up with the torii. I glued one of the front baffles on backwards so now one of the tweeters is not flush. Anybody know how to loosen the glue? I tried a heat gun but no dice.
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I was also a submariner. Thank you for YOUR services.
Speaking of Rickover, I did my shore duty at the Nautilus Museum.
@@jdm-uk-yank Still nuts to think he drank primary coolant to prove a point.
I was happy to find somwhat for my axa35, could you please share why you would not pair this with?
I just finished my Torri speakers. I grabbed a Emotiva TA1 integrated to power them. My mind is blown! What the hell have you got me into man? 😂. I’m not an audiophile, this is my first hi fi system. But, to an average guy, I literally can’t believe my ears. Thanks for the good content. You helped me set up a nice starter system. Ps my Fluance RT 83 is on the way. Time to see what vinyl is all about!
Hey Randy.. since you already built a bunch of these, how about you do a build video.. its not too different from other speakers kits i know.. but it would be nice to mix things up sometimes and do stuff other than just reviews.. it might also help someone whos not too tool savvy and wants to build that same speaker..
Search his page. He has old build videos of css criton and also gr reasearch speaker
I love kits. There's something very satisfying about putting something together and hooking it up for the first time.
FYI, thats not a woven carbon fiber cone, it's woven glass fiber. Still a very good fiber for cones - it has the least amount of elongation before breakage, so it produces a very hard and stiff cone with some self-damping due to the fiber composite structure. Carbon's a bit lighter but a lot more expensive, and it's common to see glass fiber or black Kevlar (aramid) fiber used instead of carbon fiber. (Sometimes even still called "carbon" fiber...)
Awesome! I was a submarine officer as well... and a 626 shift engineer.
Thanks to your review of the Torii, I per-ordered it. Just finished assembling my Torii Speakers From CSS. Must say that I am impressed. This is my first time at DIY and their Flatback needs some work as well as the circuit board lay out. Also some misfit with the connectors to the Input speaker connects and the speaker terminals themselves. There is AS LOT of base, maybe too much. No need for a sub woofer in a smaller room. The Mid range is the best I've heard after listening to Klipcse R50ii, The Triangle Br03s, The Sony SC whatever and The Airmotiva B1+. The treble isn't as clear as the B1+ but the Soft Dome sounds good enough. I'll trade the great bass and mid range for the clarity any time. Thanks for being the first to review it, keep up the good work!!
Rickover was a man I am grateful I never had to deal with. He was a terror and made the sub force the terror it is today.
Congresscritters quaked in fear if Admiral Hyman Rickover was on the way to their office to make them give him what was needed for the SSN part of the US Navy.
Nice review! I really like what CSS is doing with the crossover 3D printed crossover board, great way to remove some of the barriers of entry of DIY speaker building. The lower price point is also exactly what CSS needed in my opinion to get more people to make the leap to DIY.
Also idk if you've done it before but a build video from someone like yourself that isn't an expect wood worker would be good preceptive for anyone thinking of getting a kit like this so you should consider doing that for the next build.
I got a pair of the TDX 1s and I love them the most.
Hey Audioman! I've been watching your channel for about a year now. I have been looking at doing a speaker build and your enthusiasm sold me on this product. I sent CSS a note to tell them they owe you a huge thanks. If they don't send you one, I will cancel the order. : ). Jk I will send pics when the project is completed. Thanks again!
I love CSS having built the 2TDX. and they're worth the extra money for the flat packs. The cuts at fit are precision. Bsss is fantastic. Yes, not bright but not really lacking, just never annoying with harsh recordings. You'll get lost in the music rather than picking apart the recording.
Hi Randy , fit and finish is the hardest part of DIY speaker building . Self build or kit is my passion , I recently found out that some $1,000 speakers had a $18 tweeter in it ❕love your work and vids 👍
Inexpensive drivers can sound good but it takes a designer's know-how to get the best from them. I built a set of speakers using 4 dollar midranges and 9 dollar woofers, and a decent little planar ribbon tweeter (the 'splurge' of the project), and spent some quality time tuning the crossover until I couldn't do any more damage, and they're some of the most fun speakers I own - even though I own 'reference' quality speakers from companies like Thiel that are admittedly more technically perfect.
@@rorybuszka2215 agreed but I doubt your selling them for a $1000 , you missed my point ...
One thing I love about CSS is the quality of their drivers. You pull a woofer out of a Criton and compare it to a factory speaker or another kit speaker and it tells you all you need to know
@@cheapaudioman I might give them a ago in a future build , thanks for the info 👍
I'm building my first kit right now (overnight sensations)! Having sooooo much fun! Its a holiday project, and they will be my first pair of good speakers (not logitech level stuff). I've learned a lot of new stuff and skills. Tomorrow I'm learning and practicing veneering, then time to veneer my speakers and apply my finish😁. So excited, I'm already proud of these things and I'm not even done yet! Listing to them will be so much fun! (Powered by an aiyima a07 btw, thanks for all the reviews Randy!)
I built a pair, my paperbacked veneer did wrap around the front radius without breaking and cracking.
@@briansimmons5363 ah, I don't have paperbacked, I've got some non backed Ovangkol veneer, I'm painting my front baffle black, rest will be veneered using the iron on method hopefully, trying some scrap wood and offcut pieces tomorrow to test how the finish will look 😀
That's valuable information non the less, if I ever want to make a new pair for somewhere / someone else, or even stuff with similar radius.
Joints where one metal meets another is super important, ideally soldered to stop intermittent conection. Cermet volume controls are the best usable pots I ever used. The great contact made the system jump out without having to think about it.
Randy, I'd like to thank you for your recommendation. I bought the Polk TSi100 per your recommendation and paired them with my Polk HTS 12 along with my trusty Yamaha HTR 5730 I bought from a pawn shop a few years ago for $30. This setup is for my music studio office and, well, damn, I am blown away by those TSi100's. I'm about 50 miles north of DFW the next time I'm down that way, it sure would be nice to treat you to a coffee/lunch.
Randy, thanks for another great review and product intro(the RCA cables). You are a class act! Keep it up!
All the very best, Kevin
Thanks, will do!
@@cheapaudioman I hope so. Your vids are one of the very-very few things I look forward to in life anymore.
Great vid. I love this company - I built a pair of the 1tdx speakers and they are quite the upgrade from RP600Ms. I feel you on the finish. I tried 5 times to get a perfect application of a matte polyurethane - impossible. The slightest build up on an edge ruins it. If you sand the problem area it becomes glossy and you ruin the matte finish. They're pretty good, but I'll probably take another stab at it when I get time. Thanks for all the great content, I was looking forward to this one. When you unboxed them I knew they were CSS.
You probably need to do the coats using a "fine furniture finishing" pad. Which is a soft special lint-free cotton cloth cyou can buy online from furniture restoration supply places. THen this is wrapped around some other cotton like old t-shirt material to make a little "bundle". Then you do lots of very thin coats of varnish, thinned down. It is the only thing which works. Apart from some special spray booths I guess. You can follow the other instructions for french polishing like using multiple grades of sandpaper, using microfibre cloth to get the last of the dust out of the woodgrain, then doing a "grain fill", then starting the varnish/shellac/plolyurethane coating. Yeah, tedious, but you get that "deep" look to the varnish. Look up French Polishing. Best way to get the varnish onto the pad is to use a small "squeeze bottle" with a long tip and nozzle, sort of like the ones PVA wood glue comes in. Oh, or look up "guitar painting" and DON'T use an orbital sander ;-) getting the swirls out is a nightmare. Random sanders are a bit better but go gentle! I wrecked a table I was restoring by going through the veneer, it is thin!
Hi, as a pro , flat pack is so much better, modify as you want, the time which is caused and sometimes frustration for the newbies flatpack is the way to go. What I would recommend is rounding the corners and adding structural mass to damp in the cabinets even more which is something manufacturers cannot do easily vis-à-vis cost and shipping
Can you say a bit more about adding mass? Thank you.
I cannot thank you enough for that ref to Lena Hall.... Holy crap that lady can BELT the vocals out! Thanks for the vid
I’m really happy you did this review
Can't stop listening to Lena Hall now, thanks Randy.
Looks like my desktop setup is getting a Sith Audio cable upgrade between the DAC and amp!
Come on now, how could anyone say no to CAM Snake Oil RCA cables at such a deep discount?
In all seriousness this is a fun way to help support the channel, and will have me grinning every time I see the logo.
Thanks for putting this one together Randy!
New video from Randy -> make coffee -> watch video
It's good to have priorities... and coffee is always a good decision to place high on the list.
Great video! The way these speakers are described reminds me a lot of a Q Acoustics sound signature. And that's a big compliment imo!
Cool - I was a reactor operator in the Navy. 86 to 95. USS Sculpin, USS Simon Lake (in Scotland) and shore duty at Groton CT
Randy, another excellent video! Thanks. I was an enlisted puke as well; despite the 4 sets of speakers in the house - I'm going to have to build a pair of Torii's.
Very cool!
Just ordered a pair of JBLA130s and now I want these.
I need to get a 2 channel amp and dac instead of always using my home theater setup though.
Thanks for all the work
I always love to see what other nuclear sailors do when they get out other than nuclear power path.
Personally, I like figuring out the crossover wiring and doing it point to point on my own board.
Nice! Pride of making them, and knowing about what's inside - is worth a lot.
Check out the painted finishes on Triangle, Project and Monitor Audio speakers. They look great in a matte paint finish. You can save yourself a lot of work veneering by spraying the MDF with a heavy cover automotive primer, sanding smooth and painting them your color of choice. Believe me. I built three CSS kits and veneer is a PITA.
Hi Fletcher. I know nothing about this sort of thing. How much would it cost to finish a pair going by what you said (primer, auto paint)? Thanks!
@@foblivio A wild guess would be at least one primer can and one finish can per speaker. Depending on how much paint is available. Maybe $40 but I'm guessing. Cheap veneer with glue etc would cost about $75 depending on what you got. I think you could cover the two speakers with a half 4'x4' sheet of something like plain oak for maybe $60 for materials but then you need a router, bits, files, and an iron not to mention an orbital sander. In theory you could hand sand the primer but an orbital sander would be quicker and less work. The issue would be sealing the MDF into a smooth surface. Might just be better in the long run to get the Baltic birch laminate if they make a flat pack in that material. There are special automotive primers that go on thick with the purpose of filling flaws and providing a substantial sanding surface. Check out an automotive paint specialty store. You can get a good education on paint surfaces by watching the TH-cam videos by the guys who paint guitars.
@@fletchermunson6225 thank you so much for your detailed reply!
HI Randy, thanks a lot for your content, thanks to you I avoided buying super expensive amplifier and tower speakers. instead I got an Onkyo 696 receiver and a pair of polk es20 signature series. And man the sound is just butter to my ears. thanks a lot for the reviews and guidance
Glad to help!
Sam, if you want to improve sound quality for music significantly, upgrade your receiver to almost any two-channel amplifier.
I have a 20-year old Onkyo 602 for my downstairs home theater and it does a pretty good job for both music and surround sound for movies and TV. When my upstairs Denon AVR died, I replaced it with an Onkyo 686, which is pretty close to identical to your 696, without a couple of the “latest and greatest” new features. It does an outstanding job with all of the various surround sound modes using either a Roku or a Blu-Ray player as a source, plus handles video switching terrifically.
However, when I sat down to listen to some CDs, it was clear that the Onkyo was doing a poor job. The music was thinner-sounding, had vague imaging and lost detail. On Dire Straits’ Private Investigations, the wine glass breaking and the cat crying were indistinct, and whereas in the past with my old Rotel and Marantz receivers, and to a lesser extent with the Denon, one could hear and follow the crisp footsteps across the soundstage; with the Onkyo, the steps were muddled and basically centered between the speakers (a pair of custom large bookshelves with the same drivers and sound characteristics as the Thiel CS1.6).
I almost decided to get an amp switcher and pick up a used Rotel integrated amp just for listening to music, but since the start of the pandemic I have been working from home and I have put together a nice home office two channel system for music.
My newer Onkyo really does a stellar job for surround sound to accompany video, and for that reason and its ease of use within the home theater system, I’m glad I bought it. But when I pulled it out of the box I noticed that despite having the same or more channels as my older Onkyo. , it seemed to weigh quite a bit less, and that is almost never a good sign for sound quality.
lol I love that your first real Sith audio product is cables with snake oil written on them. Forget the sonic debate, I like their flexibility and I appreciate good quality connectors and jacketing etc.
It sounds like the disparity of detail between this kit and Emotiva offerings isn't enough to have an unpleasant experience.
I know you’ve heard it time and time and time again, but I’d love to see you reading off the details of the Sith Audio cables from a very unprepared list-off sheet that probably has a coffee stain, and really just softballing it in all the way, and knowing you’re doing it while it’s happening.
I miss Saturday speaker shootouts and amp shootouts, the good old days, I prefer the one take vids they where more fun and genuine.
Pumped for my CAM cables to arrive!
Thanks so much for buying some!
The cables are fun! If you've made a less than perfect job of veneering your CSS speakers, simply make sure everyone wears dark sunglasses indoors and no one will notice.
I don't care if they never get used.... I had to get a set of sith audio rca cables with the cheap audioman logo :) Haha awsome stuff Randy!
Thanks again!
CAM another stellar video and the cables look awesome. I get the idea that you may have dabbled in the black art of amateur speaker design and construction. If so, this is an affliction that we share. As a victim of this disorder I am a sponge for as much technical data(tuning frequency, driver parameters, crossover frequency and order, etc.) as I can get on successful designs. I bet I'm not the only one in your audience that would welcome more detail on these great designs. It could be an advantage in getting and keeping the fickle TH-cam audience.....I, of course , am already hopelessly hooked. Thanks again for the life you inject into this whole audio hobby!!!
Ultimate goal is to design my own from the ground up and choose drivers etc. but I’m not there quite yet. Kits I can do
@@cheapaudioman Yeah, kits are not to be scoffed at. They still allow the builder to incorporate their ideas on enclosure construction(double thicknessing the baffle, bracing, etc.) and crossover(going with higher grade inductors, caps, resistors, wiring etc.) and still be assured of a pleasant outcome. Also, and maybe most importantly, aesthetics(warning: speakerbuilding can lead to an interest in and ultimately addiction to woodworking). Again thanks for your effort!
Never considered a kit...This could be the one for me. Thanks Randy.👍👍👍
You’ll love it, G. I’m going to build one of these too
Re: Rickover. One of my great grandmothers locked my mother and her younger brother in a pitch black closet for hours at a time. This was to rehearse their being smuggled out of North Korea in a pitch black compartment on a freighter.
Always come away from this channel learning something. Thanks
DUDE! I just learned that I'm like 10 minutes away from these guys!
wow. that's awesome
40 minutes for me.
What a fantastic channel! Thanks AudioMan! (your not cheap) Vid idea! What’s a balanced cost/benefit DAC set up for a home theater set up? and are there ant that will do surround?
Great heads up. My Emotiva amp, Schiit preamp and SMSL dac should synergize with these well.
Randy - I know about as much about hifi stuff as i know about astrophysics, which is to say, almost nothing. Appreciate the education you provide. Given my ignorance, I came across a song that struck me as a potentially good test track. Pleasure Model by Nosia & Former... I've played the song with different EQ settings and it is crazy how much different detail comes out across the song depending on the EQ. Anyhoo. Thanks again for all the info you share with us.
You must have known I was going to ask you to compare with Emotiva B2+, as that is the speaker I'm leaning towards. I definitely need more precise high end with hearing issues than really great bass...thanks. My old tower which I built had 15 inch JBLs with matching passive radiators. Nothing would match that bass, but I don't have that size room anymore and the clear highs are more important now.
"Not a good pairing with AXA 25 - 35" I was ready to order until I heard that. Any thoughts on running them my AXR 85?
Dude, you are rockin it, in every way, thanks for this, and everything else too, keep it coming Randy, and I'll give you more commas,,,anytime,,,
thanks, man!
I wish there were more reviews of the Ascend Acoustics Sierra 1 bookshelf speakers.
Are we ever going to get the Sony CS5 upgrade video? I was really looking forward to that.
Really Want to give a thumps up to wavecor for making the drivers for css Audio
You made me buy a kit ... lol.... looking forward to building and listening ....cheers
What a deal. Glad they aren't regular price... 12 grand is a bit steep.. I'd figure to get at least 6ft for 20k. Awesome cables. Great price. $35👍🏼
I also like the music in the chapter intro's, nice
Hey Randy, love your reviews. How would you compare these to the SVS Ultra Bookshelves, especially with the huge SVS sale going on right now?
can you please do a Klipsch the fives review? interested on your thoughts for those speakers
Suggestions if you plan on building these plan on routing the front sharp edges given such has a tendency to cause sonic issues. As the Mid and Bass frequency tends to wrap around the front surface sharp edges cause diffraction issues.
Wow decent mark down on those cables!🤯
I use inflexible RG-58U coax for all of my interconnects. Thank you, Robert Morin (dba Lounge Audio)!
Why would you do this? Go read a ham radio book to see why this is a bit silly. If you do that, why don't you measure the wavelength of the cable, and build an impedance matching network to tune your speaker's SWR to 1:1 so there are no cable losses. Seriously, it is physics not magic.
Randy, since you are doing kit speakers, you might be interested in the Pass Amp Camp Amps. I have a pair in one of my systems that I run in Mono with a Schiit Valhalla as a pre-amp, a Bluesound Node 2i and an Ares ii with Zu Dirty Weekend Speakers and it is fantastic. Can’t get Pass Class A sound any cheaper!
I have one in my office. Can't remember if I did a review on it or not though
@@cheapaudioman i did a search. Don’t think so.
Enjoy your videos. Do the Toriis need a lot of power? I am considering pairing them with the WiiM amp. What do you think?
Interesting. Out of interest is there any independent, objective measurements of these speakers out there?
I thought I banned you
@@cheapaudioman What for, For disagreeing with one thing you reviewed? not gonna lie, that's kinda unusual man. i've even bought things based on your reviews , but does that mean that i should agree with evey single thing that you review? can't we have a healthy debate on certain topics? i'm not trying to stir trouble, i'm seriously curious why this is such an issue?
Great review sailor 😜 thanks!!! Would they get along well with an onkyo Tx-8050 or should I go to the Chinese amps (where) or emotiva ta1?
I guess I am not understanding. Lets assume you purchase the flat pack when you buy the speakers, because most will. CNC cut MDF is a good idea in a kit like this. Is the sound really that much better than a pair of Emotiva Airmotiv B1+ bookshelf speakers that the parts alone cost 25+% more than the complete B1+ speakers? Price wise these compete more directly with the B2+'s I guess, but I know the B1+ is a well regarded example of a bookshelf speaker. Erin actually preferred the B1+ to the B2+, quantifying the B2+'s shortcomings.
I also don't understand the crossover plastic "board" piece. Including a crossover PCB would add at most a dollar or two of additional cost. One or two layer PCBs a couple of inches per side are cheap, especially when you buy 100 or 250 at a time. And you could print the part descriptions right on the silkscreen layer of the board.
I'm down with a veteran owned company. I just don't see the value proposition. I'm a guy who DIYs everything. But I just don't think I'd buy these considering a pair of B1+'s are $100 less. If I'm building it myself, I'm expecting to save money or get a considerably better end product. I work on my cars to save money. I work on my house to spend my budget on materials, not materials and labor, which gets me a better end product than if I paid someone to do the work. If I built my own speakers for $400, I would expect them to compete with $500 or $600 speakers.
I'm happy to be wrong but I'd want to see some more evidence.
3D printed board is to help folks who have never built a speaker before. Or a crossover. B1+ sounds quite a bit different. Drivers are also different. Kits aren’t for everyone. But comparing two factory speakers against each other he difficult enough. Comparing one to a kit is also difficult. Apples and oranges
@@cheapaudioman I agree about the 3D printed board - the goal is to make it easier. If this was a PCB it would be even easier than the plastic board because the connections are built into the PCB and it would cost nearly the same. Just put the parts in their designated spots, solder them down and clip the leads. No additional connections necessary. This is how almost all electronics are built commercially. The parts have designated, labeled spots and a person puts them into those spots (for low volume through hole assemblies at least). This is a minor detail though.
The sound is what matters.
Aren't these all speakers? Why can't you compare a pair of well built CSS Torii's against a pair of Emotiva B1+'s? Sure things can go wrong building a kit, but assuming the kit is built well, why can't a sound quality comparison to any other bookshelf speaker be made? Sure they sound different than the Emotivas, but different how? Do the Torii's sound $100 better?
I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm just saying for $100 more PLUS the effort to build these the kit speakers should easily out perform an off the shelf pair that cost significantly less.
Presumably when you buy a kit you are buying better components than what you would get in a similarly priced off the shelf speaker. Is that the case here for $100 more than the Emotiva B1+'s? For $379 in parts I would expect a kit that rivals $500 pairs of off the shelf speakers.
Otherwise the value proposition isn't there and this kit is charging you extra to have you put it together.
Again, I am happy to be wrong.
@@Fix_It_Again_Tony agreed. 3D printing is much more costly than buying a stack of PCBs, it was never meant for mass production. Anyone can do that from a number of websites. That said either would work for me but I'd definitely prefer a PCB.
Hi Randy, i have seen a photo of a bloke, trolling his game fishing gear off the back of a nuke sub...
running low on lemon scent port lube....ordering now
Cables......Two thumbs up. (Future purchase)
Don't delay, buy today!
How do these compare to for example Dali Ikon 1 mk1 speakers or Opticon1 for instance. Will this DIY speaker play on a higher level/sound better?
Nice job, Randy. I scarfed me some cables too.
Right on
Sorry for the late question on this.... haven't seen this video before. Thoughts on how this speaker would compare to the Heco Aurora 300? Thx!
Randy, why not the Cambridge AXA35? Too wimpy power wise or too warm of a sonic signature?
too warm
How does the Torri hold up against the Polk R200?
What would happen if you chose to for-go the port and build these as an acoustic suspension build? I'm sure it would result in less bass, but would it offer greater midrange clarity? These look like a great deal overall.
You get higher quality bass in a well made sealed design. You just make sure that you build the loudspeaker cabinet free of exhibiting resonance distortions, and free of resonance distortions from the drive units and crossover. In a two way passive transducer you do not want it to go down lower than a maximum of 70 to 60hz, other wise you will be sacrificing a possible clean undistorted sound capability. You too must always have clean current amplification, enough for the loudspeaker transducers not to produce any nasty distortions for the application needed. If you do not design them well and with enough clean power, you will not be able to play them at up to 85db with the peak higher levels in the music.
It's almost time for a speaker shootout
More good work. Big hunk of Cheap Audio man. Do make sonic claims - I like it when the non-believers get riled
Thank you for your service and great channel. Has helped alot with my purchases!
any time!
First I was disappointed but,...breake in over 100 hours and did put them quite high, my ears are between woofer and tweeter ( but there is good vertical space to move does not need to be exact), makes big difference. Having cheap stands but filled with kitty sand (the heaviest type), As the stends are only 24 inches, I did put under them baskets from hard wood and thin cotton textile between floor and that, and also between wood and spike terminals. making about 6 - 7 inches + . I did try different baskets which are used under computer screen, they are made up from softer material and the result is also not that good. And yes some good space from back wall. The result is very very nice. Using naim amplifier 2x70 w bought second hand. If I just put them on 24 inch stands, the result is not good, is better even if I have woofer at ear level. Maybee usfull info for sombody. Experimenting does make more difference than I thought it can....
Marked down from $12,000 to $35. That’s awesome! Lol
But sale
Would you recommend this kit to go with my Jamo C912? I want something with good Soundstage for my home theater.
Can you snag a set of RSL CG5 speakers to check out?
Would these be a good upgrade from the JBL 530? Would I have to move up to the 1TD for an clear audible difference?
Hey Randy, could these compete with the ELACs like the Unify Reference or Debut Reference?
Curious as to that answer too! Got an open box blem of Uni-Fi Reference coming Sat ($600!). And then I saw this! Had been considering the Criton or XLS Encore but the cost was stopping me.
dont have these but i have the 1tdx. before i had unify reference, carinas and velas in the end. got them all cheap since there are a lot on german craigslist. the 1tdx sounds better than the velas or any of the others. that being said, the elacs are also very good. the carinas have a great sparkle with high notes. the velas are just crystal clear and add bass over the carinas.
I can't wait to explain to my wife that these cables are 99.6% off and limited edition.
The looks reminds me of the old extinct Normal Laboraties speakers.
Would you recommend these for use with an Atmos system? If not what css setup would you recommend for 7.1.4 Atmos system?
Hi Randy, could i get a better speaker in the same price tag?
How does the Torii compare to Emotiva B1+ and B2+?
Nice, Randy!!
Hi Randy, which class D amp chip would you recommend for these speakers in a small room (desktop monitors)? MA12070 or TPA3255?
I'd love a 3-way tower version. ( 3 woofer, mid , tweeter ) =D ! =)
We need some more historical facts on CAM naval experiences.
Any suggestions on a good online source for interesting wood veneers?
About how much would it cost to add say a walnut or Rosewood veneer to speakers of this size?
Thanks
Walnut is super cheap. Pricing will depend on whether you do raw or paper backed. You have to buy more at once with paper backed but it can be easier for someone new to veneer. Try Oakwood Veneer and Veneer Supplies. Enough raw walnut to do these speakers would be $30-40 most likely.
@@kerryarmes2786 thanks!
This is the 5th css audio kit i have built and all have gone well and sound awesome. I messed up with the torii. I glued one of the front baffles on backwards so now one of the tweeters is not flush. Anybody know how to loosen the glue? I tried a heat gun but no dice.
What would these be compared to?
Is the RCA cable shield connected at just one end?
Do I import a kit, and then sell my Evo 4.1?
Would Fossi V3 be able to drive these speakers?