Cavetown and Cancel Culture | The Dangers of "Outing"
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ค. 2024
- this is a difficult subject but I've tried to cover it as respectfully as possible.
Anyway hope you're all doing well! Feel free to subscribe :)
Patreon: / copshatemoe
Instagram: / copshatemoe
Twitter: / copshatemoe
#Cavetown
#CancelCulture
hey it’s come to my attention that some of you have been sending this video to people on twitter and giving them a hard time for bringing up the fact the Robbie said the T slur. I’d just like to say that is unacceptable and if I catch anyone harassing anybody they will get an immediate ban/block. I don’t think I made it clear enough in this video, so I’ll make it clear here: not everyone who brought up Robbies old post did so out of malice. many would have done so in good faith, and hassling them about it is cruel. I want to start a conversation so that we can maybe prevent more situations like this from happening in future. Harassment is not a part of this and it is never ok.
Thank you for saying that, too many people take things too far
T slur? Trans?
@@movieclipsvideos1781 1:27
@@movieclipsvideos1781 the T-slur is funny but replace 'f' with 'Tr' I don't feel like saying it though.
Kayden Aguilar Traggot? What words are you offended by 😂
wtf is happening rn
I never thought i would heard the words cavetown and cancel culture in the same phrase together
this is how we know that this is the cursed timeline
same tbh. But on the bright side, this video analyzed it in a very wise light and Moe is heckin fine wtf
If Robbie gets canceled, *WE RIOT*
MasterGamer wasd *YES*
Ikr
Gosh this is awful, I couldn't imagine the anxiety of being in that position
I’m sure plenty of Jewish, black, and disabled people could explain what it’s like to feel anxious. Yall would have to actually ask their opinion first tho
@@oppaloopa3698 He has anxiety
@@oppaloopa3698 Yeah, you know not only by being disabled, black or jewish makes you feel anxious, there is anxiety because of other things..
@@oppaloopa3698 he didn't even do or say anything ableist. which, it's no surprise you don't know what you're talking about or what happened because you think he came out just for pity even though he came out because people were calling him out for saying the t-slur, and he explained it was more important to him that people knew he wasn't transphobic than to remain stealth. honestly just say you're transphobic and go. you're excusing the fact people outed him and playing it down like transphobia is somehow a lesser form of discrimination.
asheresque Oh yeah, because only jewish, black, and disabled people have anxiety. I’m jewish and (I’m not sure if you’d count this as a disability) I have Tourette’s. Anyone is allowed to have anxiety and yeah, if you need me to fucking give them permission, they are too.
HE WAS 14. THIS WAS 7 YEARS AGO PEOPLE
exactly, it doesn't make it ok but its ridiculous to "cancel" someone for some things they said when they were a LITERAL CHILD!
“You said a swear when you were 4😳KANCELAAD🤬😡😫🤚”
@@abnormalrabbit5142 Makes me wonder if the people trying to cancel him are also literal children
@@KattReen idk maybe
Reminds me of when a bunch of 11 year old kids tried to cancel a literal 13 year old for tracing art
Twitter’s logic:
“How dare you say the T slur explain yourself!”
*him explaining he is transgender himself*
Also twitter: Bruh you are randomly saying this just for the attention you will be gaining
But Robbie said that he was cis and not trans?! I’m confused
@@namibiasociety4443 He was stealth. The only reason he revealed he was trans was to clear his name because he was accused of being transphobic.
@@hyperinsomniaparacondrioid what does stealth mean
@@mrkrabs5039
That people can’t tell your trans. Another term would be “passing.”
@@reneebear3641 ohh, thank you :)
I hate Twitter lol
this is the best comment on this video
Same
Absolutely. Everyone cancels everyone on Twitter, it's a really toxic community
Me too, I'd love to have an account but the community there is toxic beyond belief
Same 😭 I only go on there to check some people’s tweets. My friend tried to get me into Twitter but I cant with the toxicity
Perhaps what needs "cancelling" is Twitter.
Scott in Canada TRUE
It's a little dumpster fire of an app
YES 👏
I mean hell yeah. . . but where are all the birds going to go than? ._.
@@sunkenveth9602 freedom
"Dysphoric" was the first song I listened to by Cavetown
Ngl I thought he was just trans and no one had to say
I honestly only just realized that he only came out recently, and that he was forced out??? i really thought he was just trans and we all knew that and were chill with it and didnt need to talk about it???? but ig i dont know why i just... ive always thought of him being trans as a fact? like i thought he was out?? but also like forcing people to come out.... is so not okay
I didn’t even know he was trans. I’m surprised but I’m also not an active listener.
@@kbartlett2776 i thought its been obvious since the whole 'cut my hair' song and him being a dude with a feminine voice
and also "this is home" like "cut my hair" "hide my chest" like? that was my baby-trans comfort song to cry to
honestly i just assumed he was trans by the start
I feel like Cancel Culture at this point is less about getting bad people off the internet and more about finding popular people to humiliate.
They say is about “holding them accountable and educating them” but I think it’s more about ruining their lives and not allowing them to change at all. Even when a considerable amount of time has passed and there’s evident change, these people still have this unforgiving condescending attitude towards “the cancelled” and keep bringing up their past mistakes as if they’ll be a defining factor until the end of time. It’s ridiculous. Let people evolve in peace.
true!
To be fair, it’s kinda been like that from the beginning, especially during the early years of the Internet.
Yes. Its really stupid. We dont need to cance Rebecca for pushing her dog with her foot so the dog wont steal her food
@@mirandajones7816 there is a study that shows people get a drug-feeling trough their brains if they make an online call out post that gets a lot of attention
People behaved a similar way when NikkiTutorials came out. People said she “lied to them” or were super upset with her for not coming out without being blackmailed. That’s her personal life and nobody has a right to that. It doesn’t matter whether she’s trans or cis because she’s Nikki either way. She’s a woman.
@Randall Paquet You aren't. You tell them you're a guy and you are a guy. That's all they need to know unless you want to share more. I know one TH-cam reply won't fix everything but there is nothing you are even close to lying about.
thats what pissed me off about that situation, if its 10 years in the future, and ive fully transitioned and i pass enough for people to not know, i probably wont tell them either. this shit has been traumatic, i dont like being trans but the only way to treat the feelings and anguish and distress that comes with it, is to accept it and transition. Cis people dont get this, this isnt fun most of the time. this sucks, but we can make it better.
They're like "you lied to me by not telling me that the genitals you have/had as a child are not the genitals I previously assumed you had your entire life 😡 how could you do this to me"
@@hi-sm6dx so do you think people also should immediately tell their partners that they're infertile too? How about sexual impotence? Some pieces of information are very private, regardless of how they affect your relationship, and if you're not ready to tell it, you're clearly not in the stage of your relationship yet that this information will affect it.
@@RoemDaug I guess in my opinion for trans people (especially women), if they don't tell them early enough some people can actually get violent
As a trans person, that hurt me so much. He was just Robbie. He still is the very same Robbie. It's so uncomfortable and violating that he has to do that. Obviously the things he said weren't okay, I'm not defending that. But he obviously didnt want people to talk about it, and I know that if I ever pass well enough to be stealth, having something like this happening to me where I have to out myself would hurt so much.
I thought everyone knew he was trans tho, cause in this is home he talked about cutting his hair and hiding his chest. Then he did a cover and said “you will notice my voice is deeper now”. I just always assumed, it’s sad that now trolls will purposely miss gender him and now he will have that label stuck with him.
He was also 14 and people are treating him as if he was an adult. Also out of all the words he could have said, this isn't bad. People are just looking for something to be upset about
i love Robbie, and i love him no more, no less after he came out, so it sucks that people are like this.
@@sethcavenar8857 ikr 14 year old say a lot of dumb stuff. That's not who Robbie is anymore, and even if you suspected he was trans and wanted him to come out, that doesn't matter. Coming out should have been his choice and not something people forced him to do
I feel so bad he had to out himself. It really sucks.
I reckon that the "boys will be bugs" Is a miniature reflection on himself as 14. He must of regret it.
Wait, thinking about it, thats probably true
“I’m a dumb teen boy”
“I just turned 14 and I think this year I’m gonna be mean”
Yeah it most likely is.
“Being trans and being gay doesn’t have a certain look” YASSSS
If there was a snapping emoji I could find it
🫰
I like his music, but it never occurred to me to care if he was transgender. Like it literally never occurred to me to ponder that. Because it's not my business. People need to not be so concerned about peoples' netherbits.
Exactly, people should stop rummaging through people's past and just enjoy their art
THIS. Someone pin this comment.
Same. i never even questioned it, because, he's Robin he looks like a guy --> he is a guy. He's a guy who makes some really good music. That's all his fans need to know.
True lol for a long period of time i thought cavetown was a band who changed vocalists that's why older songs sound like they were sung by a girl and new songs sound like they were sung by a guy then I find out he is a trans guy and nothing rly changed abt him, he still makes good music..
@@daphnedaphn3 I just thought he went through puberty, that's why his voice was higher earlier on 😂
the person who posted the tumblr post that essentially forced cavetown to out himself was a long time fan and trans himself, he had a cavetown lyrics page. i absolutely think that him & the people who shared it knew exactly what they were doing and wanted to out him, which is gross. i don’t think people realize what a mentally and physically unsafe position someone is put in when they’re forced out. this sort of reminds me of when people were saying straight people shouldn’t play gay/bi characters, and around that time an actor was essentially coerced/manipulated into outing himself when he wasn’t ready via interview. i think people forget no one owes it to others to come out to them, especially people who don’t even know you.
the way people act entitled to celebrities/influencers' lives and private business is honestly appalling, and i don't think you should call yourself a fan if you don't respect the person behind the persona
The thing is he's been out forever now....
fundude no he hadn’t been :(
I agree, I'm a cis and straight girl, but I hate to hear that this happened to him. Outing people is plain wrong no matter who you are and how you look at it.
SOCKL01D from what i’ve seen was he was out but he deleted a bunch of stuff regarding that and went stealth
I didn't know that he didn't come out, I just always thought he was trans cause of his songs Dysphoric and This is Home. I never tried to deeply look into it cause it wasn't my business whether he was or wasn't. This was actually quite shocking to me cause I just always thought he was trans
Same here. I listened to This Is Home once and was like "oh nice, a trans song", and when I watched some This is Homs animations, the artists always drew the character as a girl with long hair, because to me the song was so clearly about a trans guy. I had no idea he had a song called Dysphoric though, that seems pretty explict too
@@poeticpotato how come i didn't know these songs are saying these things? What're the lines that give u tell tale to confirm it?
@@iprobablyhaveapoint “ill cut my hair” “ill hide my chest”
@@bean2216 goodness how come I'd miss that thanks tho
I agree, I always knew or sensed it but never looked into it said it or told anyone that I felt that he could be. I loved his music, he is Cavetown.
Don't out people.
Don't put people in a situation that forces someone to out themselves.
Damn, this whole situation sucks. I knew he was trans before all of this shit because I had followed him for a really long time, and he used to mention it. However, when he started getting really popular he stopped talking about it and deleted those old posts and livestreams and things. I and most other people took that as a clear sign of him generally wanting to be stealth, so I didnt talk about him being trans with cis people. Sometimes, a trans kid would get dogpiled online when they said that they related to his music bc the kid and robbie were trans, and thered be swathes of people saying how disgusting it is that trans people need to make everything about them, and of course hes not trans, what are you even talking about. In those situations I'd try to private dm the kid that robbie is stealth and I'd publically try to call people out on their transphobia (bc they weren't just saying he wasnt trans, they were saying being trans was a bad thing) without ever talking about whether or not robbie is trans. It sucks that hes been outed and that people are acting entitled to his personal info. He should've never had to make the choice between being seen as transphobic or being known as trans
Yeah I’ve always kind of suspected it but I don’t care if he is or not,, and never felt the need to go out and look for evidence, it’s not my business. I also hate that some cis people can be shitty like that :/ and I’m cis so I have to stand there while they’re making a fool of themselves and go “uh yeah,,,,, nO” It ruins the trust trans people have for cis people to respect them bc of those few idiots and it’s horrible but I understand why they’re hesitant,,
Yeah, once I asked in my groupchat, amongst friends only, never a public place, if he was trans because This Is Home and Dysphoria seemed to be relatable to a lot of trans people, and my friend kinda shut me down and called me a bad person for wondering. I understand now that it’s none of my or anyone’s business, but I would have appreciated her being nicer about it. She isn’t even trans, no one in the chat was trans, but she was friends with a trans guy in America online.
*Unrelated vent, can skip/ignore if you want:*
Once she kinda compared me struggling with figuring out my gender identity to him collapsing due to heat and wearing a binder for a long time, saying “imagine how hard a real trans person has it” and idk it kinda felt like a kick to the chest. Like I know other people have it worse than me, but that doesn’t eliminate my own struggles. Along with her kinda making fun of kids in the younger years of my secondary school using they/them pronouns and identifying as genderfluid, and fussing about how my ex boyf changing his name was confusing and calling him by his dead name and the wrong set of pronouns, idk I feel a lot of hurt around her when I think of all of that.
Lost Otter wow, that sounds terrible! I hope you have dropped that friend, and moved on from that
i thought i was the only one that knew because it wasnt brought up at all when he started to get bigger, and it confused me because like, he was a big comfort and help for me when i first came out. but then I realized that he didn't want people to know and i understood because as a trans person my goal is to get to the point where i don't have to tell people im trans and i dont even have to worry about people suspecting im trans. when people would ask and call it out on his instagram or like anything else it made me mad and i couldnt even say anything because i didnt want to out him. idk. i just feel so bad about this whole situation. he never should have had to come out like this. its nobodies business.
I knew he was trans it was obvious to me but I just didnt care he is a great person and makes great music
im jewish and nonbinary and i love cavetown, and so hearing that he was antisemitic was hard. his music was kinda a haven for me for a lot of reasons. but ik it happened a while back, so i forgive him, but it was still hard for me. also, i cant imagine how horrible that mustve felt to be outed. he was outed. it wasn't a choice. that sucks.
Me too and I love cavetown and I could tell that he made a mistake and is different now
The most important thing to remember is that people can change. You shouldn't defend bad things that you or others have done in the past, but instead just remember that they're a different person now, and that's all that matters :)
@@mediacat20 Exactly. I think todays "cancel culture" and extreme political corectness doesn't leave space for people to change. If you've ever said a bad thing you're dead to so many people. It's really toxic. And seeing how quickly we're changing it's not uncommon at all to find something from past, less educated people, we today deem as ignorant. Pretty much everybody's said stupid shit in the past. And we shouldn't hate each other for it or take for granted that the opinion hasn't changed to that person.
OptForThyName • This! And to add on this I think that my TOK (theory of knowledge) book said it quite nicely. “There is no shame being ignorant.” That is something that the cancel culture is forgetting. Secondly it is just so hypocritical. These people act morally superior while doing something morally wrong or at least grey.
@@nonniperkl6273 Yes! Thank god I'm not the only one who thinks this way. PC and Cancel culture is so common now, and it makes me stressed. Recently a pretty big artist lost supporters for "making fun of bpd", and being transphobic, despite there being evidence of him being a huge supporter of lgbt. It's just a overdramatic, virtue signaling, attention seeking waste of time and energy.
Okay but are we just going to ignore how beautiful this person is??
Dit Kind 🥺🥺 ahhh thank u
I agree ! Very pretty-
@@corruptedteka I take Beautiful to mean far far more than " Very pretty "
@@fredmichaels418 Hmm, well, yes probably, but we're all different people.
❤️❤️ yes
the fact that this started as just ppl wanting an apology for him being antisemitic and was taken and turned into an attack on his personal identity shows that so many of the ppl who tried to cancel him didn't actually care about jewish ppl being hurt, they just wanted to see robbie "get what he deserved". the antisemitic stuff he said was nasty and his first "apology" was shit so i totally think he needed to address that. but that doesn't mean he deserved to have his privacy taken away.
i love minority whiteknights. /sar
As a Jew it’s very disheartening to see stuff like this devolve:( most of just want to see some improvement and then move on
I was a shit person in my early teen years. I was just parroting the horrible things my family said without really questioning it. People can grow and change. Speaking out against ideas you used to support isn't hypocritical, it's what you should do when you realized what you used to believe was wrong and hurtful.
Exactly! I dealt with a lot of internalized homophobia because of my parents, and I was lucky to have had a very open-minded middle school so my beliefs and self-perception changed completely by the time I was like 11, but some people don't get that opportunity until later on. But after they show theyve changed, they take accountability and denounce those views, why would u keep harassing someone for childhood mistakes? Mistakes from when they probably weren't even thinking autonomously?
I was a manipulative person earlier, but during quarantine I finally realized I was in the wrong all theses years. At first it hurt my pride and shit but damn I am glad I changed. I have a friend who is like a mirror of my actions, so I realized how people felt through them
@@Wynter_Frost oh I'm sorry it must've been hard to accept that, tho I'm glad you did thats one right step towards having happy healthy relationships, best of luck to you ❤🍀
@@jotunnhime thank you bud!
Same tho I used to say horrible shit and had my own insecurities. I changed and still struggle/cringe when I look at my past self. I hate who I was before but I’m growing to be okay with myself
Dude poor Robbie, he seems like such a nice genuine person.. he shouldn’t have been forced out like that. I hate Twitter dude
I know right ? It makes me sad and mad beyond belief... I hope he's okay.
Teka yeah.. me too
yeah me too
The same thing happened with Brockhampton. They seem like great, genuine people, and Twitter brought up obviously fake allegations with quite a few of the members. Quite a few of the allegations were either disproven, or the people in question said themselves that they were fake. The worst thing that has ever happened is that one of the members had said the r slur, and if I remember correctly, apologized for it. I’m really sorry for people whose reputations are ruined due to Twitter.
What’s ironic is that the only case where I can think of cancel culture working correctly is with Shane Dawson, and he still has millions of supporters. Yet people such as J.K. Rowling and Trump have millions, maybe even billions of supporters. It’s disgusting, really.
"i just turned 14 and i think this year is gonna be mean" holy shit now i can't stop thinking about it.
dude i understand that slurs are wrong but what's the point if it was like 10 years ago and he clearly changed?
i'm getting sick of cancel culture. like for real, sometimes the dumbest things are a cause to cancel someone (again, slurs not good, but keep in mind the other good stuff if you can?)
"he's a musician, not your best friend. he doesnt owe you any information" YES YES YES. the obsession that many fans have with their artists' personal lives are incredibly unhealthy. if im appreciating someone because they make great music or youtube videos or whatever then theres no reason for me to know anything about them that they dont wanna share
People are seriously trying to cancel him for stuff he said when he was 14-
ikr he is fucking 21 he was quite obviously changed 14 year olds do dumb things, this doesnt mean that those things arent bad but he shouldn't be held accountable for shit he said when he was 14 its like holding a 10 year old for shitting their pants as a baby
at the same time, some people could have taken offence to some of the things that he said & thats perfectly valid even tho the stuff was old.
@@glittergrains5155 true, but he was literally forced out, he was 13. A 13 year old. 13 year olds say stupid shit, next thing what? People are gonna get canceled for something they said when they were 8?
@@glittergrains5155 still, he was a kid. No one cares if ure offended just keep it to yourself dont go make a whole drama about it
@@jonijon04 personally i'm not, but people who those comments did affect have every right to be upset.
I cannot stand how people talk about Robin's gender and sexuality. I'm sad that he said the things he did when he was younger, but glad he gave the due apology. I was a sh*tty kid at one time who said some horrible things about groups and people I didn't understand, and I own that too. He should not have been forced to out himself as a part of those apologies though. It was no ones place to know and I can't imagine how terrible it would feel to, pretty successfully, be stealth for so long and have it all come crashing down.
Kids do stupid things a lot. My younger sister once was pretty transphobic and homophobic, she outwardly said to me that being gay was wrong. Now she’s arguing with my mom about trans rights(for trans people, not against).
Same. When i was a kid i was incredibly close minded. Like really homophobic and rude and shit. People change and i wish that it was more accepted to forgive people and help them grow than to knock them down.
I absolutely agree.
i’m 14 and got unrestricted internet access when i was 9 and i know there are terrible things i’ve said that i’ve forgotten things about things i barely understood at the time and if someone called that out and i had to out myself to clear it up i’d be heartbroken
When I was younger, like 5y - 4y ago, I was a shitty kid too. I've never been homophobic, but I was pretty transphobic, I'd make jokes mocking trans people 'cause it was all I've seen the other kids doing. Some years later I met a classmate who was trans and he was a really cool and kind person, so I started researching a lot about the trans community and realized there's nothing wrong with wanting to be yourself. Everything happened 'cause I couldn't understand what "being trans" meant and the amount of struggles they face everyday, but now I'm proud to say I do.
Sometimes, It's just the lack of information.
People should only be cancelled after they've had a chance to change, like JK Rowling. She's had a chance to change and hasn't, so it's fine to cancel her. Cavetown was barely even given a chance to apologize or change, and that pushed him into a corner. Also, the idea that "This is Home" is "profiting off of our experiences" is thedumbedt shit I've ever heard. Everyone interprets songs differently. What you think it's about is what rings true for you.
Nope, still cancel culture doesn't help. When you ban someone for their personal beliefs what do you think happens? Do you think they say "damn, guess they got me this time, better change my mind and stop being a bigot"?
Though I personally don’t like jk Rowling at all, but I still believe she has time to change- everyone changes, and I don’t think it’s right to cancel her entirely. Everyone deserves another chance or more, but unfortunately I don’t think she will make any progress based on what she’s doing so far, but I still have some hope that she’ll “change”
@@dylhilen5707 no, they won't change. that's the entire point. cancel culture isn't just about showing people what's right, it's what comes after you've already tried to teach them. people don't want to support ignorant bigots, so they won't do so when the information is exposed widely and made known to them.
@@Dylan-hl1kt stephen king said he thought she was wrong in what she said and that she is genuinely transphobic in real life. he said that jk was an 'angel', but that even if she's caring at times, she's still got negative views about the trans community. he tried his best to be nice about it while disagreeing with her, and she blocked him.
@@elijahwinchester6690 So if you can't teach people what is the correct opinion to hold, they need to be purged?
Should a person's worth and their rights be determined by what personal beliefs or morals they have? I've talked to eugenicists, fascists and racists without believing they should be silenced or re-educated. After all, that would be hypocritical.
I was so scared and sad when I heard about the racist and antisemitic things he posted, but now that I know he was 14 I- people will find a n y t h i n g to try and cancel people.
LITERALLY
I was upset because I love his music and I didn't want to have to stop listening. and then i asked about how long ago it was. for some reason my mom and brother still believes he hasnt changed ????
my brother is for sure not the same as when he was 14. he did stupid shit all the time. and he's been forgiven
why can you not see its been 7 years???? it was only 2 for you dude
as someone who is jewish, i personally forgave him. the old anti-semitic tweets were in fact anti-semitic, but i think he was just genuinely ignorant and truly didnt understand the weight of what he was saying and didnt truly understand how bad anti-semitism is. i don't believe he genuinely is anti-semitic, as a person. unfortunately it's just so normalized and often seen as a lesser form of discrimination, and i don't blame him for that. i'm just glad he's holding HIMSELF accountable and making efforts to now help the jewish community and better educate himself. i think his apology was great. however, it does make me very sad that he was forced to come out. im almost positive people who brought up the use of the t-slur were people who INTENTIONALLY wanted to out him. they knew what they were doing. which just disgusts me and breaks my heart for robbie. and while i'm not trans, i can't help but feel the amount of people saying "i thought everyone knew" are being disrespectful. it's like when someone comes out as gay- no matter how "obvious" you feel it may be, it still takes a lot of strength and courage to come out, and to discredit that with "we knew" just feels incredibly disrespectful. and people bring up his songs like this is home and dysphoric. a song is not someone coming out. dysphoria isnt something exclusively felt by trans people- GENDER dysphoria is. i dont know. this whole situation is messy. personally i forgive him and do hope others will as well. i will continue to support him and i hope those closest to him are supporting him through the aftermath of basically being outed.
i was telling people about how dysphoria is a word that on its own isn't about trans people and i got called transphobic despite me telling them i'm trans 💀💀
@@lacvna. that's called having brain rot and being severely uneducated
@@lacvna. just ignore ppl like that...they obviously have no clue what theyre talking about
Thank you for telling us your thoughts on this as a Jewish person who's been hurt by his ignorance. I didn't know what to think about all of this at first, especially since I'm not Jewish. I felt sorry for him when he got outed even though he didn't want to, because I'm nonbinary myself and if this would happen to me I would be devastated. I thought it's a bit harsh to "cancel" someone for having said something as a teenager who probably didn't know any better, but like I already said, I was still conflicted because it wasn't really my place to forgive him. And I don't mean that he didn't do anything wrong, no. He still hurt a lot of people with his anti-semitic comments and did something wrong, but like a lot of people also pointed out, he started to be better and apologized for his behavior. He can't go back in time, so it's kind of unfair to not give him a chance to become a better person and instead "cancel" him.
Again, thanks a lot for your opinion on this absolute mess
We must remember he is a human he will make mistakes and learn ❤
I've listened to cavetown for quite some time now and I have always hated when other fans wanted to 'prove' that robin was trans - he clearly didn't wanna talk about it and his music wouldn't be more or less good or relatable. As you said he or anyone else doesn't owe anyone that kind of information about themself - I hope y'all have a great day :))
It made me sad when fans would try to argue whether or not he was trans. If he doesn’t want to talk about it, then leave it the fuck alone.
Some of his song bled a transgender underline (As a trans person myself) so I automatically knew, but he did not have to tell anyone. I feel his music was a great reach to those who understood deep down. (I’m not arguing with you’re comment btw I agree !)
@@elton2964 yeah I understand what you mean - I deeply relate to some of his songs (i'm also trans) - also have a great day :))
Yeah, as a trans person I always held the music close to my heart since it felt like my experience but I didn’t care whether or not he was trans, because art is subjective and what the lyrics might mean to me might be different than what they mean to you. I did suspect that he was but it didn’t matter to me, and him being outed is really sad
Same with people trying to talk about Conan Gray's sexuality
“i always knew cavetown was trans i was surprised people didn’t know” is not the hot take some of y’all seem to think it is jfc
yeah, but i don't think they mean any harm, they just don't know how to word themselves properly. i didn't really look into interviews or social media for cavetown, but i listened to his music and through that, i figured he was singing about the trans experience. it's not like i spotted him or anything, as i wasn't looking at many pictures of him, only his album covers. especially because i was recommended him from a trans friend who said it related to them.
Yeah...I just found out about this and people who say that stuff anger me. Especially when they bring up his voice. If I was forced to come out I would hate people saying that stuff about me.
@@AchillesKillies i think most people who are saying they knew Robbie was trans are actually saying that because he used to be open about it in his early days but yeah if they're bringing up his voice then that's transphobic low-key
its not a "hot take", its recognizing other trans people
@@prageruwu69 yeah im not really very passionate abt this topic anymore i think publicly clocking people who aren't out is bad but i also get that trans ppl are good at spotting each other and its exciting to see an artist you can relate to on that level. so fair point
cavetown owes no one anything
except his hair being floofy, he must tell us the secret.
also cave is just amazing
and his songs somewhat said it already, his older songs are a bop btw
ahah that is true he does have great hair,, I want that secret too
@@CopsHateMoe sAME like jfc hes got perfect floof hair and i'm down for it
@@secretlyalizzard7030 PLEASE GIMME GIMME
Honestly, I dont even blame him for the racism. He made a mistake but he was a young teenager we all make mistakes
Yeah we must know how he did his hair >:(
"He's profiting off OUR experience@!!!!1!" ... No? He's profiting off HIS experience, for all you knew at the the time, the songs were about something completely different at the time & you just related [plus a cis person for sure wouldn't get the trans vibes so-]
I can't believe so many trans people, instead of being horrified/disgusted/shocked/angry he was forced to out himself, had the audacity to blame him & say "Finally!" Like... You know how scary it is to be outed [like the prospect], so why are you happy/celebrating when someone else is?
Me, a cis person who def understood those songs were about being trans and still have loved them for years anyways 👁👄👁
@@taylorhope4651 Yeah same. As much as I relate to This is home the song was clearly about trans struggles so I just assumed that he was trans
And even if you've never experienced those things someone you know could have and you could be writing about their experiences to give them something, or maybe you've written about something you have never experienced but want to write those things to help people through hard times even if you don't know them.
I love ur pfp
@@cuyosan8114 I knew it was about trans people and their struggles when reading the lyrics but never assumed he was I’m sad that he had to come out when he didn’t at all.
People are gross seriously, I see a lot of people scrutinizing him in clips saying is he trans or NOT like that's none of your business anyways ??? What does it change ?
i didn't even realize he was stealth, he use to be open abt it when he was younger
kind of a shame he had to out himself ://
This was very insightful. And honestly you brought up a bunch of good points about outing and stuff.
And also, I think everyone can change. I mean, I’m very far left on the political spectrum now and I spend a lot of my time researching about different oppression and other lefty things. But I wasn’t always this far left. I had a time where I was pretty conservative. And I definitely believed in some pretty “cancelable” things. But obviously I’ve shifted my point of view and done some research and I’m now much farther left wing than many people are comfortable with. And I think many people had similar political journeys to mine. People grow. People change their beliefs. I don’t think people should be shamed and excluded from progressive spaces for beliefs they used to have(especially if they have done research and spent time making up for some not so good past beliefs) That isolates so many people from educating themselves and moving farther to the left.
Im glad the leftists that I’ve encountered online and irl have been very welcoming to me despite my past. If they hadn’t been, I likely would not have further educated myself on different issues that are truly effecting marginalized communities and stuff like that.
Ps. I don’t write comments very often and I’m dyslexic as shit so if that was incoherent as fuck I’m sorry hahaha. I just thought I had maybe an interesting perspective. Anyways nice vid!
Thanks for sharing I really appreciate that, and I 100% agree. The toxic thing about these narratives is that it makes out like people aren’t allowed to make mistakes and learn/grow from them. Peoples opinions are often product of their environments. If you grow up in a racist environment you’re likely to be racist yourself. “Cancel culture” or whatever you wanna call it completely negates that. I honestly think it’s really problematic and in my opinion it feeds into a lot of class/race issues. because of our current socioeconomic situation different communities are more prone to different views, many of which are bigoted. if we can’t recognise how our upbringing and surroundings influence this... well, where is our empathy? i used to be a transmed and I had some really shitty views on that topic. It was only through education that I was able to grow and realise I was wrong. We need to be more open and more empathetic to people and their journeys, because life is complicated. it cannot simply be boiled down to “bigot” vs “not bigot.”
CopsHateMoe you’re welcome! i happened to see it and twitter when everything went down. i completely agree. people get so sucked up in “cancel culture” they forget that people were raised in all different environments and likely had negative behaviors normalized then, like most people, they grew up and learned from it. the lack of empathy is what really gets me, especially when it comes to targeting people who are already minorities with cancel culture. not to say that minorities can’t be bigoted in some way, but the obsession with “canceling” minorities and making them prove themselves while sort of putting their safety at risk gets me. i grew up in a small homophobic conservative town, and as i grew up i saw my friends grow from saying somewhat homophobic things to being completely against that stuff. i barely knew anything about my own history as a lesbian until i was probably 17, and most likely said ignorant things when i was younger. people definitely need to learn to criticize while letting people grow and change. if i held every minor thing my friends said as kids or young teens that was somewhat homophobic, i’d have no friends lol. and most of us are some sort of gay.
I absolutely hate “cancel culture” because of how annoyingly toxic people get and it sucks how Robbie literally HAD to come out or else he would’ve been “canceled” if any of my friends thought cancel culture was amazing I would have told them to go away. Too many people have been negatively affected by cancel culture and the people who are a part of it are so scummy. Robbie changes and decided to move on from the past like any other human person. Then the random people of the internet tried to “cancel” him and they didn’t succeed or they half succeeded I still don’t know much about it yet.
CopsHateMoe I know this has nothing to do with what you were talking about but, what are ur pronouns?
ClariceTheLoser they/them :)
I completely agree with your video, I felt so bad for Robbie, it was really clear that he wasn’t ready.
yeah its really awful, I hope he's doing ok.
CopsHateMoe
I mean, I think the people he attacked have it much worse and he 100% did not have to come out when he was supposed to be addressing his shitty behavior but ok
asheresque I majorly disagree. I think the things he said in the past were bad,, but finding out an influencer you like said ignorant/bigoted things when he was a teenager although shitty is not NEARLY comparable to outing yourself to MILLIONS of people when you didn’t want to.
CopsHateMoe
He was already out and just didn’t want to talk about being trans. Everyone respected that. It was a very open secret. As I said, he was supposed to be apologizing for his shitty behavior. He 100% did not have to address it in his statement but clearly knew that the community is dominated by you people and would get loads of sympathy.
And no. I didn’t stan him before this. I’m pissed off and commenting because the whole trans community is caring more about this adult mans feelings than the people who he and all his fans have harmed. Imagine being Jewish, disabled, or black, having billions attack you, and the lgbt community refusing to put your safety and feelings first because ever. Period.
asheresque I don’t really care to argue you with you mate,, but what you said really got to me, so this is my response:
No, he was not out. So many people were incredibly invasive and inappropriate, speculating about his gender, but he was not out and any time it was brought up he would shut down the conversation. I don’t know if this is intentional, but you’re gaslighting right now. He is an adult man now yes, but he was a teenager when he made those statements. I’m not saying that excuses the statements, I think they were bad. but he has apologised for them and is raising money for LGBT Jewish charity as we speak. I never said people SHOULD forgive him. A marginalised community doesn’t owe anyone their forgiveness, and if a POC or Jewish person doesn’t feel like they can support Cavetown anymore, I completely respect that, and I understand why they don’t want to.
But honestly that’s beside the point. I think the mentality you seem to be operating under is extremely toxic, peoples opinions are shaped by their upbringing and their environment, acting like people can’t make mistakes completely discredits that. Intersectionality is about recognising how all the different oppressions are intertwined. But to me it goes further than that, if you are raised in a say a Christian or Muslim household you are probably more likely to be homophobic that if you were brought up in a secular household. Should we condemn these people for their views? No. We should try and educated them, help them grow and realise that these beliefs are bigoted and wrong. If they choose to ignore it from there, well that is a different matter - but that’s not what Cavetown has done, so that isn’t really relevant to this discussion. It’s just like if you are raised in a racist environment you’re probably going to hold racist views even without you realising. If we don’t allow people to make mistakes apologise and grow what point is there?
And my last point, to apply my own experiences. I am transgender. J. K. Rowling recently revealed herself to be a massive TERF. As a kid Harry Potter was my favourite book series,, so that fucking sucks. But do you know what feels way worse? Being outed to someone I didn’t want to be outed to and feeling unsafe. Bigotry is wrong, but feeling upset that your favourite public figure said problematic shit isn’t comparable to being outed.
Anyway that’s me done. Peace.
Man, I'm really glad he's found success but I miss when he didn't have the toxic fan base. I've been to two of his shows, the latter of which I left early from because his fans were being awful, and it's really sad that he has to deal with that shit in person. All throughout the show people were yelling things at him, calling him Daddy, and making him visibly anxious. It was honestly one of the most disgusting human interactions I've ever seen and its appalling that people are willing to dehumanize someone to that extent face to face. I hope he's doing alright, I ran into him at a record store once and he was really and cool to the 16yo dork (me at the time) who asked him a bunch of questions about the music industry.
omg I'm so glad I watched this. I didn't know that that word was a rude slur for transgender people. I thought it was just another way of saying trans. I'm glad as a cisgender girl that I've never said it before
I think it's important to think about the person's intentions and state of mind when they say something like T word unknowingly. Did it come from a place of hate? Or was it an innocent mistake used in the wrong way.
i think there’s some very relevant lyrics in his song called advice that really apply to now:
“So please don't talk to me
You don't know anything
I am not your conversation
People will talk
But that's not what I want
I can be myself without explanation”
lmk if im wrong but he’s saying some very true things here. his personal life isn’t exactly people’s place to comment on. people should either accept his apology and move on, or not accept it, but nobody should continue to bring this up. he’s obviously been avoiding speaking about this because he prefers keeping his personal life separate from music. he shouldn’t need to explain himself any further. i feel bad that he was forced to out himself.
nich THIS !!
slightly unrelated but the line is "i can be myself without explanation" is so beautiful
@@alexonline2340 IKR ITS ONE OF MY FAVOURITES
ive seen people saying he was an adult so he shouldve known not to say these things. but like,, he wasnt? he was literally like 14/15
This is why I hate cancel culture. They blame people who there pass mistakes and no forgiveness. People change and grow.
@CSGO player he was f o u r t e e n
seven years ago
people can learn from their mistakes
not saying what he did was okay. but he can still learn
@CSGO player ...you are one pessimistic person
I had a whole ass breakdown when he was canceled, and I mean I spiralled into a really bad depressive episode for a while. His music pretty much saved my life, and the community felt like my safe space...
And now it’s all gone.
I hate cancel culture
gods i know that feel all too well. i hate cancel culture so much. cavetown and conan gray are both my escape and the both of them are being cancelled and im so distressed, specifically bc they're a few of my hyperfixations (their music n stuff yk)
i hope you feel better soon :] hopefully, cancel culture will die down and those twitter people will realize that cancel culture doesn't help at all :(
yeah i kinda agree, i went through quite a few days where i was questioning everything about myself and the communities i’m involved in because of it all, i mean anyone who says antisemitic, racist, or transphobic things should be held accountable but canceling them doesn’t really help anything. :/
@@just-a-forest-crow1183 yea!!! i totally agree :] i just wish people would recognize that holding people accountable is different than canceling them :O
I know this is a few months old but I relate so much. I have ADHD so I get hyperfixated on stuff, and one of the things was/is Starkid. It's my whole world and drama started happening on Twitter over such stupid shit, but it f*cking broke me. I spiralled for months until I had to just delete my Twitter account, and I still haven't been able to watch Starkid and it sucks.
@@wtfjackaboy I'm so sorry that happened to you :( cancel culture is so toxic and I really hope that one day those people realize what they're doing!!! I wish you luck bro🥺💕
i think whoever posted the screenshots had every right to call out the past racist/anti-semitic posts cavetown made since hes white. but i feel like anyone who knows enough ab cavetown to go that far down on his tumblr KNOWS the speculation around him being trans and the fact that he wasnt comfortable to come out like i think youre right in saying that adding him using the t word in the callout was definitely malicious
alex 100% agree
I completely agree with your stance on the matter. When Robbie outed himself I felt so distressed that he felt like he had to out himself I can’t imagine being put in that situation when you’re stealth. All in all it’s a very shitty situation and I just hope he doesn’t face any more hate and discrimination towards that part of his identity. Good video Moe I’m glad you spoke out about it
I have sorta known he is trans because of his older stuff and also "this is home" yet, I never talked about it. it's not my business. he does not want to come out, so he doesn't. periodt. twitter is just toxic.
I was forced to come out to my mom when I wasnt ready by a friend because they were going to out me to her. It was absolutely terrifying. I feel as though the people saying "finally" really need to take a look at themselves and their experience. I also had many people upset they weren't the first to know about my being trans and that hurt. I hadn't meant to hurt them or "betray" them by not coming out to them but I just wasnt ready, I was scared of losing all of my friends, my mom disowning me. So I'm really upset that other trans people of all people are giving Cavetown crap for not coming out. It's a shitty thing to have to go through and I wish they'd realize that instead of just trying to deliberately out him. He's a human being like we all are and his feelings and needs need to be taken into account. Also fyi: you don't owe anyone anything, not even your friends.
About a month ago I was backed into a corner where I was forced to out myself as trans and yeah, that shits terrifying
I am so sorry you had to go through this, I hope you are doing better💕💕
I hope you're alright, it must've been horrible. Be safe! 🌸
Oh no, I'm sorry that happened to you... I hope you're doing better now though.
I’m kinda doing better. I’ve talked to some people about it and it’ll probably turn out good in the end.
@@Lobotomized_raccoon Good to hear you're doing somewhat better. We're all rooting for you !
I was forced to come out and that was one of the most terrifying and horrible experiences of my life. Mines was only to a small group but Cavetown had to basically out himself to the world.
My heart and sympathy goes out to Cavetown being forced into this position. I understand the stuff he did in the past was not right, but no-one deserves to be outed without feeling comfortable and ready.
As an enby person I can never truly be “stealth”. Sometimes I really really wish I could be. And seeing someone that wants to stay that way be outed hurts so much
I wish every time I said my pronouns I wasn't looked at like a "fake-woke teen girl" and suddenly people begin to question if non binary people are real or not. I just want to live my life. I want to be there for other trans people, who are learning their own identity, but I can't give that to people constantly. I'm proud of my identity, but I can never not be if I want to avoid a bad mental health episode. Outing is truly terrible, and I can't imagine how it could feel to be living as you always wanted and then bam! Out of the closet again.
his music saved my life. ive met him and been to many of his shows. his music brings me comfort and helped me through so much. this situation hurts me sm
its really cool uve been to some of his shows! i wanted to but then covid happened :(
It will be people just like you who will Carry the Day for Robin ; people who have genuinely been helped and lend voice to Support him now .
And this is why I avoid twitter when I could, it’s like a sticky black tar room,
Honestly i think the whole "profiting off our struggles" thing is kinda BS considering Hozier, a straight man, is praised for writing "take me to church" about the gay experience (don't get me wrong, I love both of these artists). I think you're absolutely right in saying that marginalized communities are more affected by "cancel culture" than more privileged artists.
Plus, Hozier has a particularly large lesbian following, so there's that as well.
True, but take me to church isn't about the gay experience, the music video is tho. The song is about the hipocrasy of church, where they tell you to come as you are but when you do they don't accept you.
Titania XIII um this video got recommended to me idk anything about the people in the video or the guy you’re talking about. But with that said there is no “hipocrasy” in the church because they say come as you are. They are essentially saying “come as you are, we will not judge your current state of sin, but instead help you overcome it.” They are referencing the spiritual transformation that happens when a sinner becomes saved. I’m really sorry for you cause you know literally nothing about Christianity or the Catholic Church (I assume Catholic because you reference the “church” specifically). Plz grow up and read a Bible.
@@myyoutubeaccount5653 the fuck you on about lmao
@@myyoutubeaccount5653 jejejrjfntnejejrr this is the stupidest comment I've ever seen-
My girlfriend's little sister outed her as bisexual, in front of all her homophobic relatives, on a camping trip... I think outing someone is one of the worst things to do to someone, especially if it's your own family member, and especially in front of homophobes
7 years ago, Cavetowns music was SO MUCH DIFFERENT. It shows how much he has changed over time, especially since his teenage years, like everyone else’s, are pretty crazy, and what we say during that period of our lives doesn’t reflect on us for the rest of our lives. Cmon people. Show Robbie a lil respect ❤️
I also think that in general the coming out situation was very unfair because no, we shouldn't make assumptions, but most trans people who've been listening to Cavetown for a long time, or just listened to his old music, were aware that he was trans without him saying it (there are often friendly hints to it on random videos on his TH-cam channel, his sing Dysphoric that came out in 2014, etc). Yeah, we could've been wrong for sure, but most of the trans community was pretty okay with the information we'd received and understood that if he was trans, coming out wasn't happening right now and that was okay. Robbie didn't come out to his trans followers on the 6th, he came out to cishet people who felt like they got to decide if he was forgiven or not. And like Cavetown said in his apology regarding antisemitism and racism, it wasn't his place to try to defend these people - it's not cis people's places to decide if Cavetown is transphobic. I don't think a single trans person every brought up that goddamn tweet because most of us felt like we knew and didn't want him to have to come out just to make us feel better. Fuck. I just hate how this whole situation went down.
August Hawley THIS !! this is so true. Most trans people that I talked to sort of knew he was trans. The song dysphoric, his old photos etc, The way he deliberately shut down any conversation about it,,, thats’s enough of an indication to leave it alone because he clearly isn’t comfortable talking about it. it was all just a bunch of cis people getting mad for us and demanding private information from him. It is such a toxic situation, I feel really bad for him.
Sorry to jump in but I'm cis and your comment really helped me understand the situation a lot better and how to be a better ally so thank you ❤️
Not to mention he's been a public person before he started his medical transition, so it wasn't that hard to come to the conclusion that he's not cis.
I'm cis as well, and I hate these kinds of situations. I wholeheartedly agree with what you're saying. I'm so mad this happened to Robbie...
I don't really get why people care so much about if someone is trans or not? Like I'm cis and the first time I heard This is home I was like "this sounds like he's trans" and after being his fan for some time I just kind of assumed that. This also happened with other people I talk to. They mention something that makes me go "oh they're trans" but I don't say anything. Bc if they are not telling me there must be a reason, so when they do I just say "it's ok". Tbh I hate when people go "oh I already knew it" like hey they're trusting you with this be nice. You know what's sad? If Cavetown would come out in his own terms in another circunstances there would be a lot of people telling him that "it was about time". Sigh.
This is home is my favorite song from Robin, it made me discovered him and I just relate to it so much. His music is amazing and it sucks that this is happening to him for something he did years ago when he didn't knew better.
.... im confused I never heard people speculate over weather he was trans or not. I thought everyone just knew cuz of his songs, a couple photos of him as a child, and how you can see his binder in certain photos of him.
Im not trying to be rude at all im just extremely confused
B Pione a lot of trans people knew and some of his older followers did too, but his wider audience (especially his cis audience) had no idea.
@@CopsHateMoe oh ok thank you I've been a fan of his for a while and didn't even know he really had much of a cis audience lol im trans and the only people I knew who listened to him were trans or at the very least in the LGBT community
I mean I noticed them because I am a gender fluid person, a lot of my “friends” ( that I now just avoid) would purposefully misgender him ( Cavetown) and I swear I almost punched one of them...
i discovered his music just last year and i suspected it but knew that i shouldn’t pry and try to figure it out so when he was outed i wasn’t surprised but felt extremely upset that he had to deal with it like that :((
@@CopsHateMoe lmao cishets listen to Cavetown?? I didn't know that.
I found Cavetown this year and wondered if he was trans but honestly it didn't matter. This whole thing rlly saddens me.
People are so fast to cancel someone, they really don’t do their research like with Benji. And all they can do is say sorry? Cancel culture is so terrifying they have too much power.. o really hope they chill out or at least start digging further
He was 14 at the time, now he is like what, 21!? Plus, he is TRANSGENDER. He has all the rights to say the 't-slur'. And I truly believe his coming out video is real.
Poor Robbie it's awful people pushed him out. It wasn't needed. He is Robbie the end
Cancel culture is getting out of hand, forcing someone out of the closet as trans when they aren't ready for the public to know is just disgusting. I personally had no idea cavetown was trans, and it shouldn't matter if he's trans or not because his music is beautiful. And sure, the tweets he sent were harmful, but we all make mistakes. Twitter is such a toxic place and that's why I'm rarely on there. I am so sorry about this happening, nobody should have forced cavetown to do that.
All the social networks are toxic. I agreed with you: the cancel culture doesn't delete the problem. People need to be educated not eradicated. It's a situation of two faces of the same coin and the estemism of cancel culture feeds the alt right extremism. It's a vicious selfeeding circle.
alright.
*_loads gun_*
WHO TF TRIED TO CANCEL CAVETOWN
Honestly, at least in the case of the racial comments, there are some pretty valid reasons. I don’t believe in “canceling” per se, but as a Jewish person, I 100% do *not* forgive him for saying what he’s said. He was 18 at the time of those tweets. I don’t think they were necessarily ill-intentioned, but to me, it takes a special kind of ignorance and lack of self awareness to not know that calling somebody a “toenail lookin ass jew” isn’t okay.
a fresh loaf of garlic bread He has still grown. Just because someone is (barely) an adult doesn't mean that they cant say stupid things. He has acknowledged he was wrong and he shouldn't have said it. I know I cant tell you how to feel but how else is he supposed to make up for their past actions besides recognizing their mistakes and apologizing?
Madikyu He can apologize for it. I’m just not obligated to forgive him. I saw his first apology, and it seems to me that he only made this second one because people started cracking down on him because his first one was lacking.
IMO, you should know not to say things that are THAT stupid by the time you’re a teenager. I recall being 14 and knowing that saying stuff like that was, in fact, bad.
I had a friend around that time who said stuff similar to what Robbie said (albeit worse) and it hurt, so I ditched them. It’s so strange to me how kids and teens who CAN be affected by things like racism or antisemitism aren’t too young to hear it from their peers and be hurt, but white teens are too young to “really” be harmful. Maybe it’s just because I myself am Jewish and am directly affected by people saying things like that. It also seems weird to me that prior to being called out for them, he never deleted those posts. I know he most likely forgot about them, but the fact that he was even able to forget them is strange to me. How does one just...forget times when you were casually antisemitic? How can you go several years without that weighing down on you at all?
I don’t think he was acting maliciously at all, of course, but the fact that he was able to say those things at the time and not feel bad about them or even remember them at all until now is indicative to me that he’s out of touch, and won’t regret something unless people call him out for it. Yes, he apologized and owned up, but I don’t need to forgive him. Despite his “uwu soft boy” persona, he’s a grown man and is capable of handling a couple people not forgiving him. I’m not letting his behavior slide.
a fresh loaf of garlic bread I know. He needs to be held responsible- but I truly just dont think he had malicious intent. Also the reason he probably forgot is because at that time he probably didnt know the significance of it and he moved on and kinda forgot about it. Im just saying I dont think he deserves getting his career ruined over some jokes he made years ago.
Madikyu I’m not saying it was malicious either, nor do I want his life ruined or anything. I don’t hold any real animosity towards the guy- I don’t know him personally, so why should I? I just don’t forgive him is all. I don’t HAVE to forgive him.
As a young teenager (like 13), I thought my mom was the best and coolest person ever. I thought she was going to win in court and save me from my abusive dad, and I did whatever I could to help with that by telling her everything that was going on. She was my knight in shining armor.
So, without realizing it, I started to model the way I spoke after her, swearing a lot and repeating some of the racist things she said. It never got to the point where I said any slurs (which she does say), but I'm so ashamed of the things I said back then, both out loud and in text.
It wasn't until my dad took my phone and showed the person I'd been talking about the conversation I was having with my mom that I thought, "Wait a minute, this is an actual _person_ I'm talking about". I was so embarrassed, guilty, and ashamed, and I wanted to apologize but I couldn't make myself speak.
Though I hate that my dad did that because I didn't know any better and was never taught about racism as a kid, it did wake me up. I started changing the way I thought about race- which to be completely honest I hadn't thought of much until that point- and started educating myself about harmful language and stereotypes.
Everyone has internal biases and everyone messes up, but also everyone can change. I feel that the most important thing to keep in mind is that when you talk about people like that, you're not talking about a character or a stereotype, but an actual person with a family and feelings.
Honestly, when it comes to gender and sexuality being discussed in art, people shouldn’t immediately assume people are automatically straight and cis and profiting off the community.
I feel so horrible for him. I hate the way that people who have super old tweets and have clearly moved forward and backed into a corner and harrassed into spots like this but majorly problematic, powerful people stay untouched.
This was a great video. It was so thoughtful
Would it be mean or nice to say you look like the onceler
Either way this is a really well made and informed video
Occasional Fan-Content HAHA THIS IS MY FAVOURITE COMMENT
as a non-jewish, white cis person who's never listened to any cavetown song, i can finally relate to one of the comments
It’s the highest form of flattery
4:58 saving this for later use, peace
PAHAH
thank you for being so mature about this topic, it is quite a hard thing to talk about and you did it very well!!
Idk, I’m sick of this “cancel culture” thing. People have their own opinions, and this can ruin someone’s life.
Yeah, cancel culture now hurts smaller creators and vulnerable people, which is literally who cancel culture was supposed to protect. Even if someone’s opinion is objectively incorrect and harmful, unless they’re a billionaire, they shouldn’t be cancelled and attacked for it when we could just as well just educate them.
RedHeadVixen 101 Agreed, and there are people who take what cancel culture has become and used it to hide behind their own harmful beliefs like the ones you mentioned. Like the whole “freedom of speech” argument that people use in defence of being called out about something crap they said in the past/presebt
Yeah. Smaller creators get their lived ruined while the people doing real harm rarely get any kind of attention
@RedHeadVixen 101 exactly.
Lost Otter facts! The freedom of speech just means the government can’t censor you. It doesn’t mean people can’t hate on what you have to say.
that is lowkey kinda heartbreaking that he was kinda forced to out himself when it wasnt his time. i feel pretty bad for the man
This is a good video. A lot of good points and I feel like the information was presented well. Thank you!
Wait, we weren’t supposed to know? What did they think Home was about?
Right?! He literally sings about binding and cutting his hair short in that song and has another song titled "Dysphoria" so yeah... I always knew and thought everyone else did too. I don't understand why people are saying he wasn't out before all this when he openly sang about it for years.
@@annepark2768 because he never said “ everyone i am trans “ he only alluded to it but that doesn’t always have to mean something. tyler the creator has hinted that he’s gay in his music for along time now but since he’s never came out it’s just not our place to assume he’s gay, because maybe he doesn’t wanna publicly talk about that part of his life which he has the right to!😊
@@lynncameron8100 i thought tyler tweeted about it, though it wasn't clear if he was sincere or not haha?
@@elijahwinchester6690 no he’s never seriously publicly announced his sexuality only hinted at it :)
@@lynncameron8100 ah, right. i couldn't remember, haha. my older brother's a huge fan of him, but i've only watched a few genius videos and the popular memes lol.
Fame is scary
It really is... Honestly maybe that's why I'm so scared of becoming a better artist and being out in the world with my art.
I love how calm and well-spoken you are
thanks!
I thought it has been pretty well agreed on at this point that we aren’t supposed to come for people for stupid stuff they did as minors, yet people are harassing this poor man for things he did as a 14-year-old to the point he was forcefully outed. I’ve never heard of him before this but I know I’m going to be streaming his music to show him some love and support now.
Great video! I love how respectful you were.
Great video! I love how fair you are and how you get your points across. You deserve so many more subscribers
Thank you so much!
Although I’m unfamiliar with Cavetown himself, I can understand the hurt that this situation may have caused him. Moe I love how you always stick up for what is right. I think your video is good and very passionate. x
Marcia Toms ahhh thank you so much!
Great video. Thanks for making this. :)
Hey I just wanna say thank you for making this video. I think it's a super important topic and far out - watching that clip of him outing himself actually made me cry like wow that was hard to watch. Thanks for being so forward and respectful.
I feel like I relate to him in a way. My parents are homophobic, kinda racist, and extremely transphobic. Basically my entire family is. So I was brought up like that. I always secretly supported people being gay, lesbian or bi though. But back in maybe 6th grade, I said some messed up stuff because I was repeating what I had heard my parents say. I said things like nonbinary and genderfluid werent real, that reverse-racism was a thing, that pansexual was just bisexual, I made attack-helicopter jokes, and I said that people coming out in middle school were just doing it cause they thought it was cool. I said the n word once after I heard my father say it, cause I thought it must be okay since he said it, and I said being heterophobic was a thing. I had been questioning my sexuality since the 3rd grade, and I still said all of this because of the environment I grew up in. By the end of 6th grade I had friends who showed me how wrong my family and what I was saying was. I came out as pansexual in the summer before 8th, and recently came out as genderfluid. I deeply regret everything I said in 6th grade, and I take accountability for it. But what I'm saying is the environment and people you grow up with, the people who influence you, have a big impact on you. I am so thankful for the people who made me realize how wrong I was and who I really am.
@@Av-mu3dz No they're not. And I recognize that now. I really hope you come to recognize that as well.
...wait, being heterophobic ISN'T a thing??? i've always thought that "heterosexuality is still a sexuality, so you can still be heterophobic just like how you can be homophobic"??? not trying to start an argument, i'm just confused-
@@owlchow9506 yeah sorry but it isn't. When we talk about phobias or ism its mostly talked about in a systemic sense. Since heterosexuality isn't frowned upon or oppressed you can't be heterophobic.
Sorry for any errors English is my second language
@@owlchow9506 Hi! No, heterophobic is not a thing. Being heterosexual has never been frowned upon and people are not oppressed for being heterosexual. Therefore, heterophobia does not actually exist.
Do you mean that reverse racism isn't real because it's just racism, or that certain groups can't be racist?
I feel so bad for this dude. We all say stupid stuff when we are young
Same and Exactly
Amazing way how you put it. The situation in a whole, you explained it perfectly and you didnt make it any bigger than needed. Thank you so much for that! People from both sides often can go overboard and the balance was perfect. Much love, keep going. ❤
You did a great job talking about it. This was much needed. I feel so bad for Robbie :(
Ok this is just about cancel culture in general.
Cancel culture forfeits the opportunity for growth and change. We cannot excommunicate other human beings for something they said. Of course words can harm. But a tweet cannot end someone’s world, neither the reader’s or the writer’s. To say, “you are no longer part of my life, part of their life, or part of society because you said this thing” is the easy way out. But we have the ability to empathize and communicate with those who are different. It’s hard, but positive change breeds positive change and we should not forfeit that opportunity by alienating anyone who does wrong. That’s a recipe for fear and chaos.
And the infuriating part is that by the time most people are canceled, they have clearly already gone through that growth. And they’re canceled anyway. Like what!? That’s just plain revenge. And it’s revenge on the people who did what we claim to want. Who learned and grew from their mistakes. If even those people get punished, then is there no hope after making a mistake? Again, this breeds fear, chaos, and a society walking on eggshells.
It is terrible that cavetown was forced to come out. But the whole reason that threat of cancelation holds any power is because if he didn’t have that secret, if he was not transgender, he would have been screwed.
as a trans man i feel exaclty the same. we have real things to call him out for instead of speculation about his genitals :/
cave boy what is the real things we could call him out for instead? Do you want to call him out for something?
@@deri-vata_162heu18 i meant the whole thing where he was apologizing for his old stuff?? like the comments he made yknow. i still support him and i believe he learned his lesson but i was really upset then
The fact that he said all this when he was fourteen, it really resonates with his song ‘Boys will be Bugs’ lol. In the song he literally talks about how society treats and stereotypes teenage boys, and it goes much deeper. It’s crazy how people on Twitter claim to be so liberal until it actually becomes a real conversation and not just a controversy on social media
Thank you for making this, it was very interesting to watch.
i’m an enby and i’m so angry. nobody has the right to come out of they don’t want to. and i’m so so sad that he was forced to because of the internet. now, i’m all for holding people accountable for their past bad actions, but GOD sometimes i hate the internet for stuff like this. Bit similar to the dallon weekes situation.
what happened with dallon weekes?
Michelle F some fans kept asking him to put his pronouns in his bio (politely btw) and he eventually said that basically he doesn’t care about what pronouns people use, and he said he felt pressured by fans to say this. (but, the fans always did ask nicely, and profusely apologised after he sent that tweet)
@@mdrnlevi thank you for letting me know!
Michelle F ah np :)
Michelle F np :)
I’m just mad that he is genuinely a good guy but because of mistakes he made in the past that he has now owned up to people don’t like him anymore. I don’t understand why we can’t make mistakes, apologize, never repeat those mistakes and continue life. He should have never been outed like that. I’ve been following him for five years and once lemon boy came out people just kept pressing him to talk about if he was or not and he obviously didn’t want to talk about it. I have a rather large fan page of him and I have had so many people ask me or so many people ask in comments and others comment that he was and I just don’t like people answering for him, pressuring him to say anything and it just hurts. This whole thing hurts. He was and is everything to me because he got me through bad years. I know he never has wanted to hurt others because that’s what his actions show. But he has also made some poor choices, because he is human. He apologized, and I don’t understand why we must cancel them forever even tho a lot of us has done something we are ashamed of. Even “unproblematic” artists have messed up.
Idk cancel culture has me feeling sickened by people.
Really insightful, wish you the best
I am so glad you said everything you said, this is really important
I think that if internet culture wasn't so eager to cancel people over saying words (especially in a quotation sense, and not actually hurling a slur at someone), he wouldn't have felt the need to prove himself by coming out. Just my 2 cents. But I agree, artists don't owe us anything except what they want to put out.
- your friendly neighborhood right-libertarian
The way you started this, I thought something was about to go down and thought I was gonna have to stop listening to one of my fave musicians.
But thanks, this, I don't know what to say, but it made me think about things a bit.
Yeah, I was afraid that I would have to stop listening to him. His music is really the only coping mechanism I’ve got. the racism and antisemitism was very much wrong, and it is not my place to say it is forgiven, he seems to have grown a lot. And he genuinely feels remorse for his actions. I had internalized homophobia and transphobia for quite some time. I tried not to think about my attraction to women and how I didn’t want to think about my gender for too long. I said shitty things. It was mostly around my family but I still feel absolutely awful. I’m wanna talk about it, so people understand that I recognize that part of my past, but it still makes me uncomfortable too. And while our situations are nowhere near the same, I’m glad I don’t feel like I have to give up the one thing that makes me feel comfortable and safe. I’m still very disapproving of his past actions, it’s still bad that he said those things. But I can sorta rest easy knowing that he’s grown as a person and it okay to support him.
@@cordeliajackson8615 Agreed. I've previously upset some people with something I said. I'm not like actively mad at him for the things he said, but it's just upsetting to know those things. It's just that I understand where the people who are upset with him are coming from. I still like Cavetown to tell the truth because his songs still hold meaningful messages, I just think that people have a right to their own opinion, even if it's not always agreeable.
And it's in nobody's place to "forgive" him. Honestly, people get way too carried away with that. I know I say some tactless things sometimes and it can be seen the wrong way, but I still try to look through the eyes of both sides and I consider everything other people say and I always try to come through and apologize, even if I know it won't get me anywhere.
Your points are really great! Thank you for informing, and talking about this! This was a really fantastic video, the stuff you brought up was amazing! I hope Cavetown will be ok, and I hope people like the person who tried to out him learns their lesson. Again, fantastic job :)
this is SUCH a good video. really great explanations and analysis. i think the divide between creators and their personal lives in the * wonderful world of the internet * has lessened dramatically since mainstream media was the only way to go- and because of this, because creators share more of their lives voluntarily than they used to, people on the internet think they have a right to creators' personal lives. it's quite disquieting to me that there are people out there who think they are justified in demanding answers from people on the internet- it makes me wonder what they're like in real life, too.
God that’s just awful all around. Twitter sucks.
Fun fact @ everyone who says the t slur can only be used by trans women ... Its a TRANS slur ..! And guess what ... Trans men and nonbinary people are .. trans :) Its ok to say that you only see trans women as the only type of valid trans people uwu
anyway, im glad you have a brain. Trans men and afab nonbinary people are always shoved last when it comes to us being trans.. We are also trans! we experience the trans experience! Stop being transphobic towards us because we’re not trans women! that is all thanks for coming to my ted talk
HONESTLY you be spitting facts here my friend !!
Yeah exactly literally transphobes will call enbys and trans guys the t slur too it’s not just trans women. I know people have said it’s rooted in misogyny which is fair but the t slur is used in a harmful way to the entire trans community
Cheese Land EXACTLY. The reason it has a longer history against transwomen is because people didn’t think trans men/enbys even existed.
Not all nb can use the t word stop it
@@Gabriel-nw6lb while i agree, nonbinaries are apart of the trans community because they are considered trans. Thats why theres a white stripe in the flag
you are SO WELL SPOKEN. great video! 👍
Cancel culture relies on the idea that people can’t grow, change, or educate themselves. I’m Jewish and those tweets did upset me. But honestly I don’t think it’s fair to hold Robbie to those statements after he addressed them and apologised for them, and said that he was going to continue to educate himself. The outing part of this just disgusts me, people aren’t entitled to know anyone else’s identity. The “it took him long enough” attitude is absolutely awful.
Little side note - I also have adhd and I’m autistic, and I’ve hyperfixated on Cavetown too and have a strong attachment to his music. I relate to you about this situation being hard, as well as that sort of parasocial relationship with creators you’re hyperfixated on!