Ice cap is just evidence that music can completely change the mood and feeling of a zone. The ‘hard times’ version makes it feel like a melancholy and lonely descent down a formidable mountain whilst sonic is surrounded by ice, the frozen version of his greatest fear: water
Daaamn, I got to say, that's absolutely a deal breaker for me. Especially Ice Cap and Launch Base Zone had such amazing music, I regularily find myself humming these tracks from time to time even after nearly 30 years.
The deal breaker for me was the fact that this remastered collection has bugs out the wazoo. The original games had an occasional bug but you can’t play this stinker for 15 minutes without getting stuck in the level geometry...
@@DoomKid I swear I bought it and 100% the games and there were some bugs but they weren’t deal breakers. The worst glitch I encountered was at the end of Hidden Palace Zone in Sonic & Knuckles where being Hyper Sonic after beating Knuckles just stopped. I could still move but nothing was happening. I just restarted the level from the checkpoint being able to do that in Origins and beat it without it.
For some reason I feel like the original prototype tracks sound better than the updated prototype soundtracks. The newer versions sound like a downgrade in my opinion.
Ice Cap Zone's sound exactly like the one in the prototype or at least close enough. But yes, I agree that Carnival Night and Launch Base should've use the unfinished prototypes as the basis instead of the finalized ones used in the Sonic & Knuckles collection. (EDIT: So the music was based the demo tapes instead of 1993 prototype, that explains why Carnival Night and Launch Base didn't sound right) Otherwise the rest of the unaltered soundtracks remains intact.
personally I think that the instrument sounds they choice are vastly inferior to the prototype ones. the prototype ones sound like a sound you'd get from the 90s while the new renditions are too modern and electric sounding.
All they had to do was to add a few instruments and it would have been golden, like in Sonic 3 A.I.R. This sounds closer to the crappy MIDIs than the real proto versions.
The New Music Sounds Closer to the Version of the Sonic and Knuckles Collection on PC than the original Sonic 3 Prototype on Genesis. Except Ice Cap act 2, that sounds the same.
The best compromise would've been to hire Tee Lopes to compose new tracks for the affected stages. I have full confidence that he would have put together some bangers. As things stand, these versions of the songs just don't do it for me at all...
I will deeply miss Launch Base Zone, i think that in the original it nailed the atmosphere of the zone and also the song represented the feeling of "you're very near of the end, maybe it's the end? We'll find out"
I also think the original Ice Cap Zone was the best as well. It had this very dark feeling of being at a glacier that is dangerous. The new version doesn't capture that feeling sadly.
Part of what is hurting the new mixes of these tracks is the lack of a wide stereo sound. The one that pains me the most is carnival night act 2, if you listen to the intro the prototype sounds so much WIDER For some reason, ice cap act 1 is the only one I feel has a better stereo image
Agreed, the mix sounds crowded with everything up-front and center, and compression (or low-pass filtering?) seems to have chopped off the crisp high-end frequencies expected from Genesis synth. Both issues rob the tracks of clarity.. I think the resulting off-putting tone is the real culprit here, exaggerating the disparity between these tracks and the prototype ones.
I am not good at music studying but I think what you said about wide stereo is called reverb? If these tracks are played in live set, reverb is super important for creating the atmosphere that studio can't recreate
Honestly I really hope 2 things happen. 1. The modding community steps in a restores the old tracks. 2.(This is a huge stretch) Sega comes to an agreement with all other parties regarding the og music and in turn sells a dlc pack called the S3&K Music pack, and hopefully officially acknowledges that MJ did have some hand in the Original soundtrack.
Not really a fan of the new renditions. Looks like they are primarily based on the PC port instead prototype renditions. Ice Cap for example has the same melody instruments in both act 1 and 2 unlike the prototype and Launch Base Act 2 doesn't sound so powerful. Carnival Night Act 1 on PC always sounded unsynchronized for me, something I haven't found on the original prototype track, which sounds even better. It's a shame this wasn't brought up in the new rendition
they chose to “remake” the PC songs instead of simply enhancing the prototype songs that fans have made sound better than this for years already…. Carnival night 1’s tempo is the proof they decided to just go with the PC version
This collection is seriously neutered without those tracks. Ice Cap zone's music is in my top 3 videogame themes of all time. The Carnival Night zone music is iconic and funky, and Launch Base's music fits the stage so well. It feels like a different game without the original Genesis music.
Come on, that’s a stretch. I love Jackson tracks, but these prototype tracks are just as good. The video here doesn’t play enough of the songs in order to gain full context of their sound. The carnival night prototype lines up with the vibes of the music from Balloon Park. These tracks make sense and they are good.
Carnival Night doesn’t sound like a carnival. You’re telling me that Sega could afford to put a crappy Mickey Mouse game in the first Genesis Mini, but can’t get the license for their music tracks back?
The original Ice Cap is a banger and one of my favorite tracks in the series. It's a shame to see it replaced, but the reasoning makes perfect sense. Hopefully we get some mods on the PC version to readd the old track.
@@Benjamillion Nah they literally can't use it. They can't even use a smidge of it or they will be hit with a huge lawsuit. The music industry is a LOT more petty than it used to be.
The originals sound so energetic and can really portray the feelings of these zones so well. The new music sounds super bland, like it can fit any random scenario, but just not well
It's probably because you're used to hearing the original music in the zones, that the prototype ones feel out of place. But i do think they fucked up the proto ones bad.
I agree. To me, Ice cap 1, 2, and Launch base 2 all sound like variations on the same theme. It's just not the same - that first time you pop into Carnival night and that lame ass track plays....it lacks so much energy.
I knew this was gonna sting. But hoo boy. Ice Cap gets hit the hardest. The prototype song just doesn't invoke the same sense of danger that the original Ice Cap Zone song does.
For someone who grew up with both PC & genesis version of the game i'm loving the throwback to the PC version tracks That being said i hope somebody can mod the Genesis tracks back in lol
The new song versions used in the prototype was basically downgraded even more, which honestly disappoints me and could even distrup the feel of the levels
The “remastered” tracks I definitely remember, since I did have the Sonic & Knuckles Collection as well, but maaaaaaan it really saddens me that the Genesis versions are gone. Those songs were a huge part of why Sonic 3 & Knuckles is my all-time favorite Sonic game. Playing through these Zones on Origins for me doesn’t even make me happy anymore.
....why do I actually like the prototype versions better then the “new” versions? Sure they are essentially the same but I feel like the prototypes had more of the genesis twang to em. The new ones feel like muddy fan remakes. All they literally had to do was add some extra musical notes to the prototypes to make them sound less empty. It’s a shame because I actually really enjoy the beta ost. Somewhat even more then I do the OG ost Edit:Lemme make it clear that I don’t hate the OG tracks. I just feel like some of the beta genesis tracks are more catchy like the entirety of carnival night. Still though the OG is great and it’s a shame we couldn’t get them in this release because of some stupid MJ copyrights Or whatnot
@@25kamul trust me I’ve already seen em and they are pretty awesome. Such a shame this collection couldn’t do the same......hell didn’t they use the genesis sound font to uh well “recreate” the originals. If so then why’d it come out like this? And not something similar or even better then A.I.R’s I just don’t get it. They definitely already knew that people hated the Midi versions but actually liked the genesis tracks so why use the Midi tracks as a reference???
@Sonic Frontiers Defender understandable. I mean these aren’t......horrible? But for me atleast compared to the OG beta tracks these are somewhat lackluster. Imma still buy the game tho lmao
Origin's Carnival Night Act 1 music has been stuck in my head all day. The following Act 2 music sounds rough though. Lol Does the game's music sound this flat and compressed when actually playing the game?
Carnival Night's old track to me is no longer about gladiators, it's already more towards the circus. Sonic's case, based on the level & BG design, it looks more like Las Vegas, hence the new soundtrack PS : I grew up with the PC version. Didn't had the chance to play Sonic 1 & 2.
One big reason for me to get Sonic Origins was because I never got to play Sonic 3 but heard some of the music and loved it. Now that factor is gone and I don’t see myself spending 40$ on this. Michael Jackson’s Ice Cap Act 2 just sounds amazing. Was looking forward to that.
There is no illusion here. The """""remastered""""" versions lack any sort of punch and sound muddy compared to the original proto tracks. Only exception is ice cap which is mostly the same it seems. I can assure that this isn't just due to volume difference.
My problem with them is that they sound like they barely use the sound capabilities of the genesis. They sound more like a third party game than something coming directly from Sega. Of course they were prototype songs
@Sonic Frontiers Defender compare it to say Sonic 2 or the rest of the tracks from Sonic 3 and knuckles. They sound incredibly basic for the sound chip
@Sonic Frontiers Defender Even the Sonic & Knuckles collection sounds more "genesisy" if you use a mid 90's Yamaha sound synth (even one that is done in software like the one that came free with Final Fantasy 7 PC)
Man I've never lost so much hype for a game in such a short amount of time. I was hoping the new music wouldn't be that different from the og but it's just not my cup of tea. The music is one of the biggest parts of S3&K for me and them changing it out just kills the whole thing for me. It feels weird to say but I may actually pass on this just for the music. It's really that jarring and bad for me, and I was more hyped for this than for Frontiers. Hopefully they fix it in the future. With dlc or something.
Don't expect a dlc or something unless they are able to reach an agreement with whoever controls Micheal Jackson music At best we'll only get them via mods on PC
This is literally out of Sega control lmao. They wouldn't have changed it if the music wasn't own by Michael Jackson. They had no choice but to make new music.
@@bluenitethewarrior9332 Exactly, is either that or never re-release Sonic 3 ever again, i am sad these songs arent in it, yeah. but i would rather have them change it if it means i can play Sonic 3 again
@@bluenitethewarrior9332 I would agree but the new songs just aren't that good. Majority of the people who play this are saying they'd even prefer the prototypes to the versions Jun made. Ice cap zones song, for example, just doesn't match the same feeling the original gave. It's just too happy.
The ice cape zone just destroys my heart ! I still have that song in my mind. I can’t believe the newer generations won’t be able to experience that song. The new songs on the other tracks sound cool . Tbh the ice cape zone new one is not bad it’s just not even close to the original. I’ll find a way to play the old one over this man I’m so sad about that
"I can't believe the nrwer generations won't be able to experience that song." All Sega Genesis and copies of Sonic 3 did not self destruct in 2005. Also, emulators exist
@@blabbilizer Yeah but sonic origins is basically meant to be the definitive way for new fans to get into the classics meaning their impressions of the games will come from here
I would've expected the new songs to sound more Genesis and Sonic 3nK style, while keeping their general melodies, and more bass and extra (non-Jackson) sound samples, like the Ice Cap "swoosh", Carnival Night "ch ch" sounds, etc. These sound way more PC style and worse than even the proto S3 versions. Take SiIvaGunner's CNZ and Mastered Realm's ICZ for example of what they shoulda sounded like.
Even the Sonic and Knuckles collection version doesn't sound this muffled with Windows stock soundfont (let alone with any actual good soundfont). I can't believe they messed this so much up.
The Jun Senoue versions sound clearer, but also a little more mellow, which is great for listening when you relax, but not for when you're actually playing. I get they were in a tough spot and tried to give us something new to make up for it, but sadly, once Ice Cap was lost, I think the soundtrack was guaranteed to be received poorly no matter what
Eeesh... no wonder Sega had avoided answering these questions leading up to the release. As much as I was looking forward to this, the replacement music and the price are what's going to keep me from purchasing Origins.
Yeah, Sonic Jam still remains the best way to play the four mainline Genesis games. Sound quality was improved over the original releases, you could save your game, and you could play as characters other than Sonic even in the first game. The fact that it has the original soundtracks is definitely icing on the cake.
@@klusterfuk3688 ohh right... those exist ^^"" my bad. was never a fan of the "mods will fix it" attitude but in this case which is just legal bullshit im all for it. but yeah idk if u can mod consoles.
I would have preferred new tracks that capture the spirit of the originals (the biggest loss is Ice Cap Zone), but if that's the trade-off for finally getting the complete Sonic 3 experience on a modern console, then so be it. That said, I do think replacing the songs with the prototype versions is a neat easter egg for an anniversary-style collection.
Arent sonic 3 and sonic and knuckles backwards compatible on the xbox SX? If so you could play sonic 3 & knuckles on that. They do have the original tracks from what i remember.
sounds less like the proto music and more like the old PC music, which isn't a good comparison for the collection. to be honest I'd have preferred if they had just popped in the proto music as it was and called it a day instead of, well whatever we got was
No it didn't, it sounds like the opening theme to a 1980s sitcom, not only that, but it feels like they just slapped it onto an existing level, oh wait, thats because they did
I'll never forget the time I rented Sonic 3 for the first time and got to Ice Cap Zone. That song and level combined blew my mind and have always associated it with that game ever since.
I was dreading this. I loved the original ice cap and launch base zone themes, I'm gonna miss hearing those tracks. I can get behind carnival night theme changing but the others are just a heavy loss for me
Yeah I think the Carnival Night prototype theme is just better and much more creative than the MJ one, so I don't mind that one being changed. Too bad the final version in Origins sounds so muffled compared to the prototype version...
The one thing that always bugged me about those tracks in the originally-released Sonic 3 is how the Act 2 remixes sounded less intense than their Act 1 counterparts -- certain instrument tracks were taken out, for example -- when you'd expect it to be the other way around. If nothing else, I'm glad the prototype soundtrack got that aspect correct.
I agree I bet as we play the levels we will get use to them. I'm already liking some of what I hear. I love the originals but what they did is a good solution to a hard to fix problem
What I would do is disable the music, so I can hear the sounds, but in the background, I will play the original tracks. In that way, I can still listen to my favorite Sonic 3 zone's music, IceCap! But I think I will do it for CNZ and LBZ too.
I absolutely hate it! The music in Sonic 3 & knuckles what's so good and that's why I always considered it to be my favorite amongst the other Sonic games. So now what I'm playing this game on Sonic origins I just turned the sound off.
What the HELL happened there?! I’m in the camp that actually thoroughly enjoys the prototype tracks, I love the Launch Base themes and I actually prefer prototype Carnival Night to the final version. So what in god’s name happened?! I’m speechless. It’s like had these great prototype tracks ready to use, and then Sega just shat all over them and we got the Sonic Origins tracks. How did this happen? Jun Sunoe, I trusted you! And we got THIS?! Forget it, I’m getting the PC version and modding in some actually good music.
The new music doesn't feel like it got any love. It feels like its still a rough draft with the levels boosted. The prototypes sound better than the Origins music, while the prototypes feel underdeveloped compared to the classic genesis version.
Imma be honest, specifically in regards to the prototype tracks, I significantly prefer the prototypes themselves over the remixes in origins, especially Carnival Night, which in origins sounds like it takes more cues from the S&K PC collection, which sounds just awful
@@asocos Indeed, and at the end of the day, it was either replace the songs that would get Sega into legal issues or not add Sonic 3 & Knuckles into Sonic Origins.
the prototype originals sound better than the versions used in sonic origins so not only are they using inferior music from the original sonic 3 release they also felt compelled to remaster the prottype songs to sound worse lol, good job sega.
The new tracks all sound generic... with the originals you can feel the level's theme in the notes... but the new ones sound like they could just be interchanged with one another without making much difference, that's a shame.
I'm personally fine with this. If I want to listen to the old Jackson tracks, I'll boot up Mega Collection Plus, though I understand that many don't have that option.
I was fine with the prototype replacement songs except the ice cap zone. The Michael Jackson version of that was way better. I wish they could somehow keep that one.
Nothing can touch the original Ice Cap theme from the Genesis version, but besides that... is it wrong that I prefer the prototype/current versions of Carnival Night and Launch Base?
So informative. Thank you! I DID play Sonic origins first recently so I admit that the alternative tracks did grow on me. But mad respect to the og mj tracks
It's super nostalgic for me because I grew up playing the PC version (it's the very first game I remember ever playing) so I was actually kind of happy to see these tracks return.
@@Freezerboy69 I think they sound better than the PC MIDI renditions, but they are definitely lacking when compared to the prototype versions. I wish it would have been a better 1-to-1 conversion with the same instrument sounds. Also when the 1-up jingle finishes, the level music restarts instead of fading back in/resuming
Having played sonic 3 AIR for so long with the original prototype tracks as my preference, hearing them with these slight differences from the remaster is gonna take some getting used to lol. Still sound good though! (also, the prototype song for launch base was always better than the final version imo)
I miss the originals but I can go back and experience them anytime I want using emulation. Currently playing though the mode where it presents every game back to back on the PS5 version of Origins. The 3D special stages in Sonic 2 were a nice touch.
I actually bought the 3 Sonic games on the Sega Genesis Collection on Steam long ago before Origins was announced. I also have both Sonic Mega Collections (normal & plus). Still hyped for Sonic Origins though, won’t let different music stop me from being excited.
I’m not doubting the fact that it’s because Michael Jackson probably owned the rights to them but like bruh he’s dead. I don’t think he’d mind people using his music. I can’t stand music companies
Going to really miss the Ice Cap soundtrack. The lack of the vocal kicks in Launch Base will take away from the feeling of the zone too ... but hey, I understand. I'm just glad Sega didn't let it stop them remastering S3&K this time.
I get the feeling quite a few day one buyers have had a change of heart now due to this news. Such a shame. Could have been such a great compilation with the OST intact.
The music from the November 1993 prototype sounds way better than the Origins version. They just sound crisper and better, where I think the Origins renditions sound a little muted. Still, that's not going to stop me from buying Origins and I'm sure there will be some mods to help fix this problem.
Me too, PC version is what I grew up with. Though sadly I never played Sonic 1 & 2 back then. Not to mention the Carnival Night one just don't feel right when play the old version, old is more like circus. New version is more like Las Vegas if you look at the level & background design for Carnival Night. Launch Base's new track sounds more like if you been to a NASA launch site.
I'm gonna have to mod in the originals
YES please do ! Btw i love your channel
True...
These are the originals bandy
Come on let’s go!!!
@@ChuckE.CheesesIllinois Yep, these are indeed the originals
Man, i'll miss the ice cap music
Maybe MJ and original music will be unlockable
@Team Chaotix Br tbm vo sentir falta da musica da ice cap e a "musica nova" nem combina com a ice cap e ja sei que vc é br e conheço o canal
@@BreadCroissant They're not. The DLC doesn't have the Sonic 3 at all. It only has Knuckles Chaotix, Sonic Spinball, and Sonic 3D Blast.
@@theultimabass a man can still dream though.
I will too
Ice cap is just evidence that music can completely change the mood and feeling of a zone. The ‘hard times’ version makes it feel like a melancholy and lonely descent down a formidable mountain whilst sonic is surrounded by ice, the frozen version of his greatest fear: water
Hard times version?
@@why3994 The original Ice Cap theme sounds very similar to Hard Times by The Jetzons.
His fear came from Labyrinth tell me I'm wrong
True so true
Damn. Did William Shakespeare write this comment?
IMO, the biggest loss was Ice Cap Zone.
Agreed.
At least we have The Jetzons "Hard Times"...I guess lol
R.I.P Ice Cap music :(
Correct
Rip carnival night
*Strange, the new tracks don't really sound like they're from a Sega Genesis game.*
Perhaps they're not using the same soundbites as the Sega Genesis.
*Strange, I can also type in bold.*
Wrong. is been stated that the creator of the new music used the same Yamaha synth.
It just sounds clear now and not played through a CRT TV.
The songs are from the Sonic 3 prototype.
@@david-eh6ps ye we know, the seconde half is literally comparing the original prototype with the remaster...
Daaamn, I got to say, that's absolutely a deal breaker for me. Especially Ice Cap and Launch Base Zone had such amazing music, I regularily find myself humming these tracks from time to time even after nearly 30 years.
I bought it unaware. It was bad and scary and sad and wrong. Everything was fine until carnival zone. Then it was not fine at all.
The deal breaker for me was the fact that this remastered collection has bugs out the wazoo. The original games had an occasional bug but you can’t play this stinker for 15 minutes without getting stuck in the level geometry...
@@DoomKid I swear I bought it and 100% the games and there were some bugs but they weren’t deal breakers. The worst glitch I encountered was at the end of Hidden Palace Zone in Sonic & Knuckles where being Hyper Sonic after beating Knuckles just stopped. I could still move but nothing was happening. I just restarted the level from the checkpoint being able to do that in Origins and beat it without it.
The PC version can have the songs replaced with a simple file swap
For some reason I feel like the original prototype tracks sound better than the updated prototype soundtracks. The newer versions sound like a downgrade in my opinion.
Ice Cap Zone's sound exactly like the one in the prototype or at least close enough.
But yes, I agree that Carnival Night and Launch Base should've use the unfinished prototypes as the basis instead of the finalized ones used in the Sonic & Knuckles collection.
(EDIT: So the music was based the demo tapes instead of 1993 prototype, that explains why Carnival Night and Launch Base didn't sound right)
Otherwise the rest of the unaltered soundtracks remains intact.
Serious downgrade 😡
They sound like unfinished tracks. I don't like them
personally I think that the instrument sounds they choice are vastly inferior to the prototype ones. the prototype ones sound like a sound you'd get from the 90s while the new renditions are too modern and electric sounding.
Was going to say the same thing. How did they somehow make the prototype tracks worse?
All they had to do was to add a few instruments and it would have been golden, like in Sonic 3 A.I.R. This sounds closer to the crappy MIDIs than the real proto versions.
Even SilvaGunner understood this with his spoofs
I WISH I NEVER LISTENED TO THE PROTO VERSIONS….. ugh these are bad lmao
You had one job, Sega.
At least these are actually better than the midi's.
Lol, all except for Ice Cap sounds worse than the original prototype versions.
“No copyright law in the universe will stop me!”
Do what you want cause a pirate is free, you are a pirate!
The New Music Sounds Closer to the Version of the Sonic and Knuckles Collection on PC than the original Sonic 3 Prototype on Genesis. Except Ice Cap act 2, that sounds the same.
I grew up with the Sonic and Knuckles Collection so if anything, these "new" songs actually make me feel MORE nostalgic lol
@@DisasterMillennial Though I prefer the prototype tracks, I’m glad you’ll get some enjoyment out of the tracks.
The pc version had the pre-MJ tracks so yeah these were the finalised prototype tracks in the end
I mean, the prototype compositions were likely unfinished anyway
@@HulluHapua did you not hear them?
The best compromise would've been to hire Tee Lopes to compose new tracks for the affected stages. I have full confidence that he would have put together some bangers. As things stand, these versions of the songs just don't do it for me at all...
Agreed. Even the original prototype tracks sound way better
You know who is the one responsible for "remastering" these tracks according to Sega? Jun Sennoe apparently.
He did an amazing job with ninja turtles so they should have.
@@benraven9087 wow real shocker
@@brucewatkinson5254 Actually, he's better known as the song writer and guitarist of Crush 40, as well as the composer of Sonic Adventure 1 & 2.
If you ask me, there is a lesson in this: Never work with a celebrity without a way of ensuring you can always use your own content.
I will deeply miss Launch Base Zone, i think that in the original it nailed the atmosphere of the zone and also the song represented the feeling of "you're very near of the end, maybe it's the end? We'll find out"
I also think the original Ice Cap Zone was the best as well. It had this very dark feeling of being at a glacier that is dangerous. The new version doesn't capture that feeling sadly.
@@Xxandrew01 I agree.
Launch base Is a mid game zone so...
@@isaacramirez2143 not in the original Sonic 3 release..... so.....
@@NineTails87 but lauch base was planned as a mid game zone so...
Part of what is hurting the new mixes of these tracks is the lack of a wide stereo sound.
The one that pains me the most is carnival night act 2, if you listen to the intro the prototype sounds so much WIDER
For some reason, ice cap act 1 is the only one I feel has a better stereo image
Indeed. They somehow made the new songs sound WORSE than the prototypes.
And even with ice cap, it's essentially pre-sonic 3 since act 1 sounds identical to act 2
Agreed, the mix sounds crowded with everything up-front and center, and compression (or low-pass filtering?) seems to have chopped off the crisp high-end frequencies expected from Genesis synth.
Both issues rob the tracks of clarity.. I think the resulting off-putting tone is the real culprit here, exaggerating the disparity between these tracks and the prototype ones.
@@shadowledastray
Yes i also totally thought they needed more high end, these tracks would all sound better with a slight boost in the highs
I am not good at music studying but I think what you said about wide stereo is called reverb? If these tracks are played in live set, reverb is super important for creating the atmosphere that studio can't recreate
Man that ice cap song slaps so hard. Beautiful stuff to this day.
HARD TIMES
Slaps? NERD
Honestly I really hope 2 things happen.
1. The modding community steps in a restores the old tracks.
2.(This is a huge stretch) Sega comes to an agreement with all other parties regarding the og music and in turn sells a dlc pack called the S3&K Music pack, and hopefully officially acknowledges that MJ did have some hand in the Original soundtrack.
I see the former being far many times more likely. Maybe the modern could use DJ SpinDash’s version used in Sonic 3 AIR.
I hope 1 thing happens: People don't buy this crap! So simple
@@Simon-zo1vf Clown emoji
@@Simon-zo1vf it's crap just because three songs from one game were replaced? gtfoh kid
@@Simon-zo1vf 🤡
Not really a fan of the new renditions. Looks like they are primarily based on the PC port instead prototype renditions. Ice Cap for example has the same melody instruments in both act 1 and 2 unlike the prototype and Launch Base Act 2 doesn't sound so powerful.
Carnival Night Act 1 on PC always sounded unsynchronized for me, something I haven't found on the original prototype track, which sounds even better. It's a shame this wasn't brought up in the new rendition
I agree
they chose to “remake” the PC songs instead of simply enhancing the prototype songs that fans have made sound better than this for years already…. Carnival night 1’s tempo is the proof they decided to just go with the PC version
The PC Collection versions were closer to the final version of said tracks. The Prototype ones are unfinished and had some channels muted.
Me too
It’s a shame
I do like the prototype version tho
I am CRUSHED to see this. Sonic 3 was nothing but bangers, one of the best video game OSTs of all time
Bangers? NERD
@@joshuarichard6827 The songs are great (The prototypes and originals at least). There's no need to call them a nerd.
This collection is seriously neutered without those tracks. Ice Cap zone's music is in my top 3 videogame themes of all time. The Carnival Night zone music is iconic and funky, and Launch Base's music fits the stage so well. It feels like a different game without the original Genesis music.
I completely agree
agrree
And the new choices are *AWFUL!*
Even the old prototype versions were better.
That was quite possibly one of the worst things Sega could've done.
@@lunatic0verlord10 ice cap act 2 survived
Come on, that’s a stretch. I love Jackson tracks, but these prototype tracks are just as good. The video here doesn’t play enough of the songs in order to gain full context of their sound. The carnival night prototype lines up with the vibes of the music from Balloon Park. These tracks make sense and they are good.
The remastering of the Carnival Night tune totally killed it. They got rid of the classic Genesis stank. The stank man, THE STANK!
not remastered AT ALL, you're using that word incorrectly
Sounds like a GBA port
Literally why even bother. If it doesn’t have that absolutely FILTHY Genesis twang, then don’t even try
I miss the STANK, motherfucker. I miss it hard. That's what made those Zones iconic AF.
The best part of carnival night music? 🥛💥
Carnival Night doesn’t sound like a carnival. You’re telling me that Sega could afford to put a crappy Mickey Mouse game in the first Genesis Mini, but can’t get the license for their music tracks back?
The original Ice Cap is a banger and one of my favorite tracks in the series. It's a shame to see it replaced, but the reasoning makes perfect sense. Hopefully we get some mods on the PC version to readd the old track.
give it a week, we'll have our orginal music back
I honestly think the Jackson family wouldn't even care if they kept the original tracks in, probably just Sega being a little too cautious.
@@Benjamillion Fuck SEGA and their bad business decisions they've made since 2003.
@@Benjamillion Nah they literally can't use it. They can't even use a smidge of it or they will be hit with a huge lawsuit. The music industry is a LOT more petty than it used to be.
Pretty sure they said they'll make the game unmoddable music-wise so people can't add the original/proto tracks back
The originals sound so energetic and can really portray the feelings of these zones so well. The new music sounds super bland, like it can fit any random scenario, but just not well
It's probably because you're used to hearing the original music in the zones, that the prototype ones feel out of place. But i do think they fucked up the proto ones bad.
It's just your nostalgia that got used to the tracks. Theres no such thing as "portraying the feeligs" of the zones.
I agree. To me, Ice cap 1, 2, and Launch base 2 all sound like variations on the same theme.
It's just not the same - that first time you pop into Carnival night and that lame ass track plays....it lacks so much energy.
Las originales son las mejores.
Even the prototype songs sound bad, michael jackson really helped this game's ost lol
I'm so used to associating MJ track with launch base. Like that's a strong nostalgic memory for me.
I knew this was gonna sting. But hoo boy. Ice Cap gets hit the hardest. The prototype song just doesn't invoke the same sense of danger that the original Ice Cap Zone song does.
yeah
Right. 🥺 yeah.
Launch base zone pissed me off the most SMFH
That's gonna be hard disagree from me. Carnival Night got hit the hardest.
I actually like the new Carnival Night zone songs. But dear god, that new Ice Cap zone song is god awful.
Losing Ice cap just crushed my soul in every piece scattered through out the infinite universes.
Yeah
Same it’s the only one that really is worse
there is a chance to get the mj music as dlc except ice cap because it's not by mj and the og creator of ice cap zone music/hard times died
Just wait for the modders to step in.
BREAKING NEWS: local Sonic fan becomes W. D. Gaster after hearing the wrong tunes /j
For someone who grew up with both PC & genesis version of the game i'm loving the throwback to the PC version tracks
That being said i hope somebody can mod the Genesis tracks back in lol
...or the prototype tracks. These new ones somehow sound worse than the PC Midi's using a good soundfont.
Sonic on PC? 🤮
The new song versions used in the prototype was basically downgraded even more, which honestly disappoints me and could even distrup the feel of the levels
The new tracks sound alright however ice cap got the short straw. I will be looking for a mod to restore IceCap
Is because some track didn't use YM2612 instrument such as Carnaval Night and Launch Base
The “remastered” tracks I definitely remember, since I did have the Sonic & Knuckles Collection as well, but maaaaaaan it really saddens me that the Genesis versions are gone. Those songs were a huge part of why Sonic 3 & Knuckles is my all-time favorite Sonic game. Playing through these Zones on Origins for me doesn’t even make me happy anymore.
....why do I actually like the prototype versions better then the “new” versions? Sure they are essentially the same but I feel like the prototypes had more of the genesis twang to em. The new ones feel like muddy fan remakes. All they literally had to do was add some extra musical notes to the prototypes to make them sound less empty. It’s a shame because I actually really enjoy the beta ost. Somewhat even more then I do the OG ost
Edit:Lemme make it clear that I don’t hate the OG tracks. I just feel like some of the beta genesis tracks are more catchy like the entirety of carnival night. Still though the OG is great and it’s a shame we couldn’t get them in this release because of some stupid MJ copyrights Or whatnot
They based it off the shitty MIDIs. Check out the remastered versions from Sonic 3 A.I.R., they sound great.
@@25kamul trust me I’ve already seen em and they are pretty awesome. Such a shame this collection couldn’t do the same......hell didn’t they use the genesis sound font to uh well “recreate” the originals. If so then why’d it come out like this? And not something similar or even better then A.I.R’s I just don’t get it. They definitely already knew that people hated the Midi versions but actually liked the genesis tracks so why use the Midi tracks as a reference???
You smoking
@Sonic Frontiers Defender understandable. I mean these aren’t......horrible? But for me atleast compared to the OG beta tracks these are somewhat lackluster. Imma still buy the game tho lmao
@Tree1579 I highly disagree. The Prototype music just doesn't sound nearly as good as the original.
The "remastered" versions kinda sound like a downgrade, especially Carnival Night, but I think it still sounds great
Their just midi versions
Origin's Carnival Night Act 1 music has been stuck in my head all day. The following Act 2 music sounds rough though. Lol
Does the game's music sound this flat and compressed when actually playing the game?
Remastered = crap, this is where the Albernic Handheld shines! 😁
Carnival Night's old track to me is no longer about gladiators, it's already more towards the circus. Sonic's case, based on the level & BG design, it looks more like Las Vegas, hence the new soundtrack
PS : I grew up with the PC version. Didn't had the chance to play Sonic 1 & 2.
Exactly, I actually really like the prototype Carnival Night....why couldn't they have just used that one???? Like how could you have messed this up 😭
One big reason for me to get Sonic Origins was because I never got to play Sonic 3 but heard some of the music and loved it. Now that factor is gone and I don’t see myself spending 40$ on this. Michael Jackson’s Ice Cap Act 2 just sounds amazing. Was looking forward to that.
Seriously?! There was no reason to make them more like the terrible MIDI versions from the S&K collection! They already sounded perfect!
I don't know... I like most of it especially Carnival Night act 2 and Launch Base act 2.
@Dylan MacBride The 2nd I mean stealth mentioned an "FM makeover" so the guy who added the music propably knew about the prototype
These tracks came from the same guy who made the Sonic 4 OST and apparently those songs were supposed to emulate the genesis/mega drive games.
@@hammerbro4782 Sonic 4 is easily one of Jun's weakest soundtracks. I was kinda hoping h'ed make original music but oh well.
@Nicktai I think the problem is Jun is great with using real instruments but with Genesis games, he tries too hard to sound Genesis like..
There's an illusion that the new version seems worse, due to the lower volume. Yall should have did something about that.
There is no meaningful volume difference. The new remastered tracks are songs that sound like they were ripped from a flash game
@@tawmifm they where not remastered.
The Carnival Night newer version def sounds worse
There is no illusion here. The """""remastered""""" versions lack any sort of punch and sound muddy compared to the original proto tracks. Only exception is ice cap which is mostly the same it seems. I can assure that this isn't just due to volume difference.
@@mellon1427 yeah. They totally massacred Carnival Night Zone
Not having the music is a deal breaker for me. I rather pull out my old sonic 3 cart.
My problem with them is that they sound like they barely use the sound capabilities of the genesis. They sound more like a third party game than something coming directly from Sega. Of course they were prototype songs
@Sonic Frontiers Defender compare it to say Sonic 2 or the rest of the tracks from Sonic 3 and knuckles. They sound incredibly basic for the sound chip
@Sonic Frontiers Defender Even the Sonic & Knuckles collection sounds more "genesisy" if you use a mid 90's Yamaha sound synth (even one that is done in software like the one that came free with Final Fantasy 7 PC)
Man I've never lost so much hype for a game in such a short amount of time. I was hoping the new music wouldn't be that different from the og but it's just not my cup of tea. The music is one of the biggest parts of S3&K for me and them changing it out just kills the whole thing for me. It feels weird to say but I may actually pass on this just for the music. It's really that jarring and bad for me, and I was more hyped for this than for Frontiers. Hopefully they fix it in the future. With dlc or something.
Don't expect a dlc or something unless they are able to reach an agreement with whoever controls Micheal Jackson music
At best we'll only get them via mods on PC
I totally feel you my man. I know it's only 3 tracks, and it's crazy that it's turning me off from the whole thing... but I cant deny how I feel
This is literally out of Sega control lmao. They wouldn't have changed it if the music wasn't own by Michael Jackson. They had no choice but to make new music.
@@bluenitethewarrior9332 Exactly, is either that or never re-release Sonic 3 ever again, i am sad these songs arent in it, yeah. but i would rather have them change it if it means i can play Sonic 3 again
@@bluenitethewarrior9332 I would agree but the new songs just aren't that good. Majority of the people who play this are saying they'd even prefer the prototypes to the versions Jun made. Ice cap zones song, for example, just doesn't match the same feeling the original gave. It's just too happy.
Sega were a bunch of idiots for not copyrighting those song's back in the day.
As a person who own the pc port disk. Steam version the ps3 collection and origins i agree
They're good, but, well, I'll always prefer the Ice Cap theme we know and love.
same
The ice cape zone just destroys my heart ! I still have that song in my mind. I can’t believe the newer generations won’t be able to experience that song. The new songs on the other tracks sound cool . Tbh the ice cape zone new one is not bad it’s just not even close to the original. I’ll find a way to play the old one over this man I’m so sad about that
At least we have TH-cam.
"I can't believe the nrwer generations won't be able to experience that song."
All Sega Genesis and copies of Sonic 3 did not self destruct in 2005. Also, emulators exist
@@blabbilizer Sonic 3 AIR, Sonic 3 Complete, Sonic Mega Collection/+, Modders for Sonic Origins, TH-cam: Allow us to introduce ourselves
But this IS the original version of ice cap
@@blabbilizer
Yeah but sonic origins is basically meant to be the definitive way for new fans to get into the classics meaning their impressions of the games will come from here
The original soundtrack was in the Sonic Mega Collection for the PS2, despite not being on the PC releases in the late '90s.
I would've expected the new songs to sound more Genesis and Sonic 3nK style, while keeping their general melodies, and more bass and extra (non-Jackson) sound samples, like the Ice Cap "swoosh", Carnival Night "ch ch" sounds, etc.
These sound way more PC style and worse than even the proto S3 versions.
Take SiIvaGunner's CNZ and Mastered Realm's ICZ for example of what they shoulda sounded like.
Even the Sonic and Knuckles collection version doesn't sound this muffled with Windows stock soundfont (let alone with any actual good soundfont).
I can't believe they messed this so much up.
Apparently the Supersonic music sounds even worse... I wonder if they cut out the unused track.
The Jun Senoue versions sound clearer, but also a little more mellow, which is great for listening when you relax, but not for when you're actually playing. I get they were in a tough spot and tried to give us something new to make up for it, but sadly, once Ice Cap was lost, I think the soundtrack was guaranteed to be received poorly no matter what
The mini boss, "Woo C'mon" song is missing too.
Eeesh... no wonder Sega had avoided answering these questions leading up to the release. As much as I was looking forward to this, the replacement music and the price are what's going to keep me from purchasing Origins.
Can’t say I blame ya
cant u mod the tracks in?
Yeah, Sonic Jam still remains the best way to play the four mainline Genesis games. Sound quality was improved over the original releases, you could save your game, and you could play as characters other than Sonic even in the first game. The fact that it has the original soundtracks is definitely icing on the cake.
@@luleta1644 not on console
@@klusterfuk3688 ohh right...
those exist ^^""
my bad.
was never a fan of the "mods will fix it" attitude but in this case which is just legal bullshit im all for it.
but yeah idk if u can mod consoles.
I would have preferred new tracks that capture the spirit of the originals (the biggest loss is Ice Cap Zone), but if that's the trade-off for finally getting the complete Sonic 3 experience on a modern console, then so be it.
That said, I do think replacing the songs with the prototype versions is a neat easter egg for an anniversary-style collection.
I was expecting a remix of Ice Cap having different instruments and different rhythm and notes.
Arent sonic 3 and sonic and knuckles backwards compatible on the xbox SX? If so you could play sonic 3 & knuckles on that. They do have the original tracks from what i remember.
Fr it's like they didn't even try
@@GodWarsX Trying to get the rights to music from singer is difficult and expensive.
sounds less like the proto music and more like the old PC music, which isn't a good comparison for the collection. to be honest I'd have preferred if they had just popped in the proto music as it was and called it a day instead of, well whatever we got was
new Ice Cap kind of sounds like Sonic 4's theme song
Im gonna miss ice cap zones music it just fitted the level so much
We will.
We all do
No it didn't, it sounds like the opening theme to a 1980s sitcom, not only that, but it feels like they just slapped it onto an existing level, oh wait, thats because they did
@@cakelayer Cope.
@@cakelayer “it sounded like they just slapped it on the level oh wait they did” 🤓
I'll never forget the time I rented Sonic 3 for the first time and got to Ice Cap Zone. That song and level combined blew my mind and have always associated it with that game ever since.
Right. That snowboarding intro is unforgettable. I still remember my first play like it was yesterday.
💔💔💔💔💔😫😫😫😫
Same I cranked up my CRTV and jammed it back in the day. That and the Streets of Rage soundtrack
Little strange that the ds classic collection kept the original music
Waiting for mods that bring back the original tracks 💿
I was dreading this. I loved the original ice cap and launch base zone themes, I'm gonna miss hearing those tracks. I can get behind carnival night theme changing but the others are just a heavy loss for me
Yeah I think the Carnival Night prototype theme is just better and much more creative than the MJ one, so I don't mind that one being changed. Too bad the final version in Origins sounds so muffled compared to the prototype version...
How do they not remake them with the same soul at least? The new tracks are garbagio
Agreed. Thank God for modders though.
@@DarkAnomaly How do i get mods on the ps5 version though?
@@CosmicCosmo1 I don’t think you can
The one thing that always bugged me about those tracks in the originally-released Sonic 3 is how the Act 2 remixes sounded less intense than their Act 1 counterparts -- certain instrument tracks were taken out, for example -- when you'd expect it to be the other way around. If nothing else, I'm glad the prototype soundtrack got that aspect correct.
I still prefer the original MJ tracks from Genesis, but the original prototypes are pretty good, and the updated versions are not bad.
I agree I bet as we play the levels we will get use to them. I'm already liking some of what I hear. I love the originals but what they did is a good solution to a hard to fix problem
I prefer the Sonic 3 PC version or original prototype version due to their sound quality sounds better.
What I would do is disable the music, so I can hear the sounds, but in the background, I will play the original tracks. In that way, I can still listen to my favorite Sonic 3 zone's music, IceCap! But I think I will do it for CNZ and LBZ too.
Think you can, just go to the settings and lower music volume to zero
@@Professor_Rock I agree it’s really stuipid
I absolutely hate it! The music in Sonic 3 & knuckles what's so good and that's why I always considered it to be my favorite amongst the other Sonic games. So now what I'm playing this game on Sonic origins I just turned the sound off.
What the HELL happened there?! I’m in the camp that actually thoroughly enjoys the prototype tracks, I love the Launch Base themes and I actually prefer prototype Carnival Night to the final version. So what in god’s name happened?! I’m speechless. It’s like had these great prototype tracks ready to use, and then Sega just shat all over them and we got the Sonic Origins tracks. How did this happen? Jun Sunoe, I trusted you! And we got THIS?! Forget it, I’m getting the PC version and modding in some actually good music.
They really messed up, just like they have been for over 10 years, in all honesty I have lost hope in sonic games...
The new music doesn't feel like it got any love. It feels like its still a rough draft with the levels boosted. The prototypes sound better than the Origins music, while the prototypes feel underdeveloped compared to the classic genesis version.
Everyone: RIP IceCap! And CNZ and LBZ 😢
Me: bro why is the title screen the Sonic 3 title
Imma be honest, specifically in regards to the prototype tracks, I significantly prefer the prototypes themselves over the remixes in origins, especially Carnival Night, which in origins sounds like it takes more cues from the S&K PC collection, which sounds just awful
Yeah, I hope someone mods it so we get the original proto tracks instead of only the released tracks on the Genesis.
@@YujiUedaFan yeah. i was going to buy it on Switch, but now I'm definitely going to be getting it on PC, because I need to mod this out of my ears
I do wish they kept the MJ songs. Ice Cap Zone really fell on "Hard Times" too if you get what I mean.
They could not because of legal issues
@@asocos Indeed, and at the end of the day, it was either replace the songs that would get Sega into legal issues or not add Sonic 3 & Knuckles into Sonic Origins.
Hard Times wasn't MJ's. They just ended up cutting it anyway.
Thank God I’ve got this on the GameCube
SEGA just cannot stop taking L's, like come on, HOW DID YOU MAKE THEM WORST???
Good thing mods exist. (;
the prototype originals sound better than the versions used in sonic origins so not only are they using inferior music from the original sonic 3 release they also felt compelled to remaster the prottype songs to sound worse lol, good job sega.
The ogs are just too iconic it would feel wrong to hear anything else in their place
Prototype versions sound better than the "Remasters"
Agreed
@The Legendary Sanic yeah, the new ones kinda feel muted especially carnival night
I'm more pissed at the fact that they could have reanimated the intro and outro movies for Sonic CD and didn't.
The new tracks all sound generic... with the originals you can feel the level's theme in the notes... but the new ones sound like they could just be interchanged with one another without making much difference, that's a shame.
^ they have that generic indie platformwr vibe
Ah, nothing like a little bit of modding can help!
Those tracks really added a lot to the original games and the vibe of those levels, I think I'll stick with emulation
The new versions of the prototype music sound almost muted compared to the originals (in some cases)
I'm personally fine with this. If I want to listen to the old Jackson tracks, I'll boot up Mega Collection Plus, though I understand that many don't have that option.
While I don’t have that collection, I do have the original Genesis games and a working Genesis 👍
Or TH-cam ofc
@@EPS5000 or the sega genesis collection on pc
I was fine with the prototype replacement songs except the ice cap zone. The Michael Jackson version of that was way better. I wish they could somehow keep that one.
Nothing can touch the original Ice Cap theme from the Genesis version, but besides that... is it wrong that I prefer the prototype/current versions of Carnival Night and Launch Base?
Ice Cap was my absolute favorite track back in the day.
Yes
No.
Ice Cap prototype theme is better than Ice Cap final theme theme in my opinion.
They're not bad but don't really fit sonic so much
I kind of prefer beta Carnival Night but definitely not the other two
same. its a shame that the only decent prototype track sounds like a badly done midi
They destroyed the Ice Cap music. Sounds like it's being played through a mobile phone speaker, very tinny and high-pitched :S
Ye always found carnival night annoying myself
@@HyperBlueWolf That could just be the fault of the video
@Lee Hayman what that the song is supposed to be annoying? Lol
So informative. Thank you! I DID play Sonic origins first recently so I admit that the alternative tracks did grow on me. But mad respect to the og mj tracks
Ice Cap and Launch Base Zone had a couple of my favorite tracks in the Sonic franchise. This is a shame.
Ice cap zone just does not fit the feel of the level at all
I know, the mj one doesn't fit whatsoever
IK I think the MJ songs all sound way better
@@Kelis98 that's a funny joke
The soundfont of the original mj version is so clean and really fits an ice level imo
@@arzfan29 Contrarianism is also hilarious
Thank God they didn't touch my hydrocity zone act 2
It's super nostalgic for me because I grew up playing the PC version (it's the very first game I remember ever playing) so I was actually kind of happy to see these tracks return.
Yikes.
Same man. Launch Base is honestly way better in the proto/PC version
@@danielblaise156 how dare he enjoy the proto tracks more, I mean YikES.
I like the tracks but I think these renditions in origins have not come out well at all
@@Freezerboy69 I think they sound better than the PC MIDI renditions, but they are definitely lacking when compared to the prototype versions. I wish it would have been a better 1-to-1 conversion with the same instrument sounds. Also when the 1-up jingle finishes, the level music restarts instead of fading back in/resuming
Having played sonic 3 AIR for so long with the original prototype tracks as my preference, hearing them with these slight differences from the remaster is gonna take some getting used to lol. Still sound good though! (also, the prototype song for launch base was always better than the final version imo)
Same here, except I've been playing A.I.R since October
Agreed. I’m also hoping they also include the prototype super theme but I doubt it.
I miss the originals but I can go back and experience them anytime I want using emulation. Currently playing though the mode where it presents every game back to back on the PS5 version of Origins. The 3D special stages in Sonic 2 were a nice touch.
for me the problem is not the melody itself, it's the lack of instruments
Hopefully at some point they can sort out the music rights issue and update the games.
I didn't know Michael Jackson composed music thought he was a singer/dancer.
Hard times happiest days of my life, hard times gone by
The Prototype music will never slap as well as the Michael Jackson tracks.
Yeah, tell that to Carnival Night.
@@CheddarVG Carnival Night was the slappyiest slapfest to ever slap.
true
@@coolguy5133 The Entry of the Gladiators remix isn't bad, but I personally prefer the prototype music.
@@CheddarVG Well we can't always be a fan of things that fit the best.
Carnival night, Ice cap and launch base will never be the same again 😭😭😭😭😭
They killed the sound effects
And this is why you hold on to old copy of games
For the worse mj music?
Yep, keeping all of the music is definitely more important than having improved gameplay and extra features.
I actually bought the 3 Sonic games on the Sega Genesis Collection on Steam long ago before Origins was announced. I also have both Sonic Mega Collections (normal & plus).
Still hyped for Sonic Origins though, won’t let different music stop me from being excited.
I’m not doubting the fact that it’s because Michael Jackson probably owned the rights to them but like bruh he’s dead. I don’t think he’d mind people using his music. I can’t stand music companies
Going to really miss the Ice Cap soundtrack. The lack of the vocal kicks in Launch Base will take away from the feeling of the zone too ... but hey, I understand. I'm just glad Sega didn't let it stop them remastering S3&K this time.
Today I realize I’ve only been listening to the tracks from the PC port. I didn’t know the original and PC had different sounds
You're missing out on ice cap. The others are fine either way.
Launch base zone act 1 was def reused in Sonic 3D blast you can hear a bit of the final fight in it!
I get the feeling quite a few day one buyers have had a change of heart now due to this news.
Such a shame. Could have been such a great compilation with the OST intact.
The music from the November 1993 prototype sounds way better than the Origins version. They just sound crisper and better, where I think the Origins renditions sound a little muted. Still, that's not going to stop me from buying Origins and I'm sure there will be some mods to help fix this problem.
I personally liked Sonic & Knuckles (along with all of its music) more anyway, so this didn't hurt me. Still a sad scenario though.
I grew up with the PC port so I found a lot of them recognizable. I prefer these versions, but I also like the original launch base
Me too, PC version is what I grew up with. Though sadly I never played Sonic 1 & 2 back then. Not to mention the Carnival Night one just don't feel right when play the old version, old is more like circus. New version is more like Las Vegas if you look at the level & background design for Carnival Night. Launch Base's new track sounds more like if you been to a NASA launch site.