Subscribed! Sometimes TH-cam recommends good channels. Now i want to get my Commodore Computers from the attic. Collected several Amiga 2000, 500, C128 and C64 15 years ago.
When cleaning with IPA, you should put a paper towel down then use the brush over the paper towel to collect the debris and actually remove it. Otherwise you are not really cleaning, you are simply moving around the debris all over the board.
I think the biggest selling point of the clear video is the pot adjustment. Commodore used several board rev. several different manufacturers with varying quality differences. This allows you to adjust the picture to each individual c64.
Wow nice product showcase, I wasn't even aware people were tryin' to make somethin' like this to get a better picture out of the 64's. I guess I want a better picture out of whatever I play these days but I am still torn on it as well , old CRT scanlines or RF haze and such is what I grew up with and sometimes that's ok in it's own way so it's hard to want somethin' to be perfect especailly when you may not have a chance to change it, either way it looks good in the end though doesn't it.
Yeah, same here. I kind of prefer the original look of the video output (that's why I don't use any picture enhancing hardware for the upscaling, too). But it is amazing that people still come up with new devices for the good old C64.
Great video as always Jan - you've thoroughly demonstrated the product well. I don't mean to be rude, but I'm not sure if "so much for" is the expression you want to be using. It's usually used in a disparaging context where something has failed or not worked e.g. "So much for my power adaptor not exploding". The videos you've previously used it in may better suit something like "that's all for" or "that's it for". I hope that this doesn't come across badly as I'm genuinely a big fan and I can't fault your command of English at all aside from this very very minor point. Keep up the great work my friend 🤘
👍Thanks Jan for the video. I only recently received my lumafix board which I haven't even tried out yet, maybe I'll do a comparison between the two solutions. There goes some more $$ that the missus hopefully won't notice 😁
I put a LumaFix in my C64C. It got rid of the jail bars but it made the picture too blurry with too much ghosting. I think I actually preferred the jail bars.
Yes, the results with the LumaFix are pretty hit and miss from what I've heard. Seems to vary a lot depending on the board/VIC-II revisions. This supposedly works better (didn't try the LumaFix though).
You should try to reverse your soldering iron tip cleaning - place it back in the holder with solder on it and then clean it before you use it again. The solder left on it helps prevent the tip from oxidising while you aren't using it.
Ah, that makes sense. I usually tin the iron again after use (when I stop soldering for the day) but I was not aware that I was cleaning it before putting it back.
Thanks for the video! I did the mod and it’s working. A bit hard to see any difference on original Commodore monitor. I will hook the C64 to a big tv and make the adjustments.
Yeah, it was really difficult to show. The ClearVideo definitely makes it clearer, especially some color combinations, but it looks way better on a CRT (which in turn is really difficult to get on camera...).
It was very difficult to show, the upscaler/capturing made things a bit worse. It looked cleaner in reality, especially for other colors than blue. Take a look at the fuzziness of the colors in the test pattern, much better with the ClearVideo.
@@JanBeta I think you should have used the 1084s instead of the LCD screen for adjusting. The LCD introduces it's own idiosyncrasies that the CRT won't for optimising/adjusting the signals.
It is really hard to picture the output image on a LCD monitor with a camers :-) I have tried it several times, but all I h´get are moire pattern with my DSLR and a telephone picture with the iPad. So, I think, in real life the quality improvement of this device is much better visible. I have noticed, that the LumaFix64 slightly blurrs the picture due to the 47pF coupling capacitors. I want to put some more research in this topic soon after I have finished other projects. I would like to try other values and I might make a version, that gets along without any caps in the signal path.
Yes, definitely difficult to capture this. CRTs can be worse though so I didn't even try that. The device allegedly works best for CRTs and it already was really good with my strange upscaler/monitor setup. Looking forward to any research you are going to do. :)
When did this shitty trend of removing the moire filter glass from the camera sensor take hold anyway? Back in the day, the anti-aliasing glass was standard, then i guess around 10 years ago some scammy shops opened up which would for like $400 extra resell you a camera with that thing removed, which was always a terrible idea, because i mean, what do you need a sharper picture for, if it's risking being a completely unusable picture anyway? Then the camera manufacturers jumped on the bandwagon, like "uh, we can just leave the $0.20 part out and charge $200 extra ourselves", then they went like "ah we'll make the premium feature standard and save money anyway" and then they went like "hey we can charge more again if we put it back on, maybe get some people to buy another camera". This is how you create semblance of progress without substance.
I find the whole route to get a picture pretty complex. Upscaler and lumafix. I watch my C64 now with a S-video cable from Ebay, either via my surround receiver that has S-video input, or on a Samsung 214T, a great 21" monitor I got for 5 bucks at goodwill with 1600x1200 PVA wide angle high contrast panel, decent upscaling and S-video input. I also don't see comb-issues I see in your picture.
It is always a pleasure to see your reviews with our beloved c64. Did you do the comparison test with svideo cable or only with composite a/v? It would be interesting, removing the RF Tuner, if the chroma leak is eliminated. In your video I do not see significant differences (in best), the image seems slightly more blurred. However, I do not like drastic changes to improve the known side effects of the VIC II. Certainly not everyone now has a crt display, ClearVideo64 or the old LumaFix, made to improve the low yield on LCD TVs ( worsened by denoise and 3d comb filter, I think) I have an C64 Breadbin (labeled W.Germany), on CRT in the past I didn't notice these artifacts, now maybe the aging of the components increases it?
With the ClearVideo, you actually lose the RF and composite signals, you only have Luma/Chroma aka s-video. I certainly like to keep my machines original, too. The jail bars belong to the VIC-II in a way. Still it's interesting and cool that there are people working on the C64 nowadays and come up with these neat devices. ;) I found that the older VIC-II revisions have less jail bars usually. The worst I've seen are the ones used in the cost reduced versions of the C128. And obviously the bars are a lot more apparent on modern monitors than on CRTs that have a natural blur of sorts.
I always find just lowering the contrast on the TV/Monitor helps a lot.. When I use my SONY LCD I put the settings to standard, when I use vivid picture settings the image becomes a bit fuzzy and the lines show up more.. I also have a setting for noise reduction that improves the image.. The CRT I use I just lower the Contrast and Saturation so my scan-lines are more visible.. I will always get the jail bars on my C64 but I don't mind them as I was only used to RF signal when I was a kid in the 80's. It is a shame that Commodore never used RGB, the BBC Micro, Spectrum 128 and Amstrad CPC used RGB but these were created in the UK, Commodore was the USA and the United States did not have RGB..
Yeah, one of my upscalers does some picture processing that completely eliminates the jail bars. I actually prefer the original picture, too, as it's a feature of the C64. But I love the fact that people are still tinkering with the C64 and making new improved stuff.
Tried the simple modulator replacement myself, my experiences was that the Lumafix circuitry just adds noise or blurriness so did not use them - looked better without it. Huge difference from getting rid of the RF though.
Yes, this works really well. I probably could have gotten a better picture with more fine tuning even. Also, recapping the board would probably help, too.
pretty much anything that replaces the RFM will give a better output. Except this one circuit I tried... I have it here, I don't remember where it came from but it's basically two transistors, one diode, + some caps and resistors.
@@JanBeta That is bad. I just thought it was from Germany, as the website had German flag and was in German. The issue is, that anything above 10,57 Euro, are slammed with additional sales tax of 25 percent. And at this price, the danish state, charge an additional import tax of just under 22 euro on top of it all. All in all, a clearvideo64 will cost me just under 71 euro in total. And that sucks. 😒😒😒
JAN BETA, What TTL/CMOS 74XX series chips would be equivalent to a CIA,PIA, PLA chips? I means that would have the same functionality and can do the same functions.
JAN BETA, 1.) Some arcade games use 2 clock signals that are clock inverted signal and clock phase signal, any reasons why? 2.) Any reasons why arcade games use different RAM "access times"? 3.) The ROM's chips data width size doesn't equal when your "subtract" the address start and address end range. Any reasons why they would want blank unused space in the ROM chips not having any code? Is the blank space used in the ROM chips used for compiling the ROM data contents?
An improved LumaFix, nice! But seeing that you have to remove the RF modulator, why not go the extra step and install c0pperdragon's component video board instead? I built one of those myself and just the built in scan doubler makes it worth while and still get to keep the original composite and s-video output. If the mod's default colour palette isn't to your liking, then there's an editor that's been available for a few months now.
@@officermeowmeowfuzzyface4408 Got any examples? I'm genuinely curious and I can check it out easily enough. If it's a case of pixels where there shouldn't or no pixels where there shouldn't then it may be possible to fix in firmware.
These specific pots? Naah. These have a plastic gear, and the brass screw is insulated from everything else. There would be some capacitive coupling, but the distance is really ample that it doesn't matter.
Yes, makes sense to use a plastic screwdriver, I have to get a proper one sometime. As Siana points out, I think in this case it doesn't make any difference.
You only need plastic screwdrivers for variable inductors. The iron in the screwdriver affects the flux during adjustment, then removing the iron changes the adjustment again.
Great video, Jan! The IC extractor tool is quite expensive and is about £40-£50 on Amazon. I inadvertently broken a pin off my 8565 R2 VIC II chip trying to put it in a LumaFix board. it was a tight fit so I ordered two more VIC chips. Has this happened to you in the past?
Oh, I definitely have broken some pins. I have a special talent to do it on EPROMs for some reason but I also have at least one VIC-II with a broken leg. The new IC puller is gold if you are working with ICs regularly. It also doesn't bend the pins so it's easier to re-insert the chips after removing. ;)
They are Behringer MS-40. Can't really recommend them but I got them for very cheap some years ago. There's definitely way better sounding monitor speakers out there though.
Nice one Jan. I can’t help but wonder if you lost some sharpness with the mod, but there are 4 trimpots, so I bet you could keep adjusting and get a better picture overall. Or maybe it’s just my eyes!
JAN BETA, when you use the "dead test cartridge" which IC chips is this testing or what are you using the dead test cartridge to test? you also use a "diagnostic Test cartridge" also to test what IC chips? I'm confused what is the differences of the dead test cartridge and the diagnostic test cartridge and what are you using them for when troubleshooting?
Dead Test only has some basic tests but works with a lot of faulty parts so that's the way to go for black screen/dead machines. The diagnostics cart has slightly more sophisticated tests but needs a loopback cable harness to be able to perform all tests. Plus, it only works if most of the C64 is fine. Both are invaluable tools for troubleshooting in my opinion.
@@JanBeta thanks for the help 1.) When looking at C64 schematics can you give an educated guess by looking at the data buss, address buss where the bank switching is because I "Can Not" tell where the bank switching is at on the schematic? 2.) Why would you want the I/O interface like a PIA or CIA chip to do timing? timing signals for what purpose in the I/O signals? 3.) PLA chips does only the chip selects for the C64 ROM chips and RAM chips? or does the PLA chip does other things like what in the C64? 4.) What kinds of CIA & PLA test do you think the diagnostic tests does? If you didn't have the diagnostic test card how would you do diagnostic tests on the CIA & PLA chips using an oscilloscope and what else?
What are your thoughts about the retrotink? I haven't seen many reviews on how it does when used with C64's video output. It seems it still does produce a white vertical line on the left side of the screen. Any other issues?
Hello Jan, I have a magic desk cartridge problem. (512k and 1MB) may be someday you would want to make a video about how to burn 512kb / 1Mb games on a magic desk cartridge or make compilations. how about that? I would really like that. Thanks and keep up the good work.
When I saw the horizontal bars, I immediately thought scanlines! But, the RetroTink does not currently offer this. I suspect this might change in the future. So, your horizontal bars are the result of something else? I usually only see vertical bars.
Wait, the RetroTink does not normally generate any scanlines at all. Are you connecting it through your OSSC? This has been recommended, but I didn't actually try it when I had the RetroTink.
There is an s-video mod for the VIC-20 but not much more. It doesn't have an RF modulator built in so the quality should be about as good as it gets with that mod in place.
There is a Lumafix 128 that is available on ebay if you want the version of this modification where you don't have to remove the RF modulator. I cant post a direct link as I think links in comments are flagged by TH-cam. Edit: if links work, here's a link to the item: www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-LumaFix-128-Now-For-the-Commodore-128-128D-Computers/383247753467
I see you already watched the other video in the meantime. ;) Yes, it gets a bit too hot to be comfortable. Will probably run for years but it's definitely a good idea to provide some cooling.
The cardboard stuff actually works pretty well for shielding RF, used one to shield my disk drive from the CRT that was sitting on top of it. ;) Seriously though, most of the time you don't need any shielding at all.
@Ken Mason there is an issue with lead/zinc, the elements aren't very compatible with eachother in an alloy. The tiniest bit of zinc in a pot of lead (regardless of tin content, as opposed to a pot of tin with lead content) starts producing "oatmeal." I learned this from casting projectiles for reloading firearms cartridges, while preparing the alloy. Many kinds of canned food uses zinc in the can manufacturing to seal the crimp line around the bottom, since some use that as a crucible and end up having problems, like I did... The only way I found to remove the oatmeal (zinc) was by washing/fluxing the alloy with copper sulfate, which pulled the zinc out and replacing them with copper molecules. Although if you have a lot of tin in it, it will also pull tin out but at a much slower rate than zinc. Anyway, the important take-away is that lead with zinc impurities makes it "age" fast and begins crumbling in 5-10 years. Ruby Fluid states "Recommended Alloys: Tin/lead, tin/silver, other tin alloys" which makes sense, but they didn't say "Lead/Tin". The first element named in an alloy is the majority of the alloy, so tin/lead alloys are similar but not the same as lead/tin alloys. Make sure you're using high tin content solder with that.
@@robbyxp1 thanks, but the only difference between a Masked ROm chips and PROM chip is the price because both can be programmed at the factory so no difference only the price? I'm confused on the differences between H&V sync signals compared to XY deflection vector signals what are the differences between them? Arcade power supplys only use one filter cap rated at 27,000uf any reasons why a big capacitance for arcade games?
The mask ROM doesn't have to be programmed, the chip is manufactured in large quantities with the programming already physically on it ("masked"). The (E)PROMS are empty and have to be individually programmed, so it takes longer if you want to make large quantities.
Hi, The size character on the screen of mt C64 have different sizes,the ones below are slightly larger than the ones above, can you help me, pleaese, Jorge Garcia.
That's a strange fault, might have something to do with your monitor? Especially modern monitors sometimes have trouble displaying the C64's signal correctly. Otherwise it might be a timing/oscillator problem on the C64.
Oh, the LumaFix is a different device for a similar purpose. The most significant difference is that the ClearVideo gets rid of the RF modulator altogether.
Yes, it was incredibly difficult to show the difference. I actually think the picture quality improved but it's not very apparent from the screen capture. Plus, it looks way better on a CRT.
I tried to desolder U12 on my breadbin last night......it didn't go so well. I definitely desoldered some of the pins and now instead of 439 bytes free in basic I just get a black screen. If I piggy back it while applying enough pressure, it will come back........to 439 bytes. lol But I ran a program that identified U12 as being the bad ram chip. Anyway I only have a super, super cheap soldering iron and solder braid. I did use flux and it helped, but still it's a pain. I had no idea how hard this was. I wish I could justify a $200 desoldering station, but I can't. lol Anyway last night I ordered a kit that has a better soldering iron and a manual solder sucker. Hopefully between the two I can get it out. I actually have 8 new ram chips and 8 new ram sockets. I just need to get them in there.
@Mr T. Guru agreed except first remove as much solder as you can from the flanges so you can bend them straight first. It only works when they're straight.
Are you one of those people who use lead-free solder and then complain that they can't get anything done? Are you sure that the soldering iron you ordered is actually "better"? I think, send it right back, it's probably junk, all of those kits priced around $16 or less with everything in them have a mains iron which seems like it's temperature regulated, but it's not, the knob is marked with temperatures on it which are all lies, it merely adjusts power, and it's not thermally balanced, because it stems from a design intended for active control, it's not pleasant to use when you are experienced and it's even worse when you're not, and since it goes between much too hot when it's not on the metal and much too cold when it's actually in use, you risk lifting pads and damaging a board. Get a proper 936 or so, doesn't cost much, or better yet a Ksger T12 if that's not too much hassle, and get a cheap solder sucker separately. And get good solder. GOOD solder. Your life will change. When things don't go well, you just add your good solder and then suck it off. I don't know what it is about old solder, but it seems to crystallise somehow with time, and you want to add some fresh one on top, but you for sure don't want it to be one of the modern, difficult to melt types. Apropos cheap things that do something... ZD-211 desoldering iron. $12 or so? Not durable, doesn't live very long, generally about until the second or third time you need to clean it out, so you should be able to complete a few projects with it. Sits right in the middle between having to handle a bit too many things at once, the soldering iron and sucker and so on and having to be swift and precise at it, and an actually expensive desoldering station. Apropos cheap solder suckers: what i did was to just cut the sheath off mine (ZD-190) and 3D printed a flat knob instead of the angled one, so i can reset it by whacking it against my hip or the desk or something. Because while it's by no means big, my thumb still won't reach comfortably to the top of the plunger, my hands are too small. I think some of the $1 ones you get from China have a flat knob to begin with, so you don't even need to 3D print anything. Now naturally if i could afford an Engineer SS-02, that would be nice, but alas. Anyway with the mod my hand was no longer in such a cramped position and closer to the tip and i could be much better with it.
I finally got it out. My old solder iron was just crap. The new one works so much better and has a temperature adjustment. I still had to crank it up a bit to get the ground pin out though but I got it and it reports 38911 bytes free now.
Because the VIC-II chip only outputs Luma/Chroma, very different approach than RGB. There’s some hardware using an FPGA that can output RGB but that’s basically bypassing the original graphics chip.
Here's another RF modulator replacement board, from eBay, apparently it gives you an S-Video port and 3.5mm audio jack but it looks like it's only for the C64C, C128 and C128D: www.ebay.com/itm/SuperVIDEO-RF-Modulatorersatz-C64C-C128-D-S-Video-Y-C-AEC-Fix-NEUE-VERSION/173855868474
Jail bars still look terrible each year we have a so called fix and none of them i ever seen completely fix the problem of color banding on text and god awful jail bars
All the c64 emulators ive ever seen i have never been accurate otherwise the SID and VIC2 chips PSU units would fail along with the VIC2 color banding and jail bars
Nice video! And it is great to see another option for our little community 👍🕹️
Thanks Chris! I love that there are still so many options to try for the good old C64. :)
This is a very useful advice for me. My C64 needs this mod, because it is suffering from chroma bleeding very much. Thanks for the video.
Subscribed! Sometimes TH-cam recommends good channels. Now i want to get my Commodore Computers from the attic. Collected several Amiga 2000, 500, C128 and C64 15 years ago.
Thank you & welcome aboard! Time to dust off the glorious machines I guess. ;)
and this channel even has hidden ponies :D
Yes, I‘ve noticed Fluttershy /)
Best thing I ever bought for my C64, light years ahead of the Lumafix
I love mine too
You make the best Commodore videos on TH-cam. I'm always happy to see a new video of yours.
Oh, thank you! Many more to come. :D
When cleaning with IPA, you should put a paper towel down then use the brush over the paper towel to collect the debris and actually remove it. Otherwise you are not really cleaning, you are simply moving around the debris all over the board.
I think the biggest selling point of the clear video is the pot adjustment. Commodore used several board rev. several different manufacturers with varying quality differences. This allows you to adjust the picture to each individual c64.
Yes, every VIC/board combination is different. This should be adjustable for all. :)
Awesome--this looks like what I need on mine... once I replace the blown L1 inductor and have video again.
Makes sense to replace the inductor first I guess... ;)
Wow nice product showcase, I wasn't even aware people were tryin' to make somethin' like this to get a better picture out of the 64's. I guess I want a better picture out of whatever I play these days but I am still torn on it as well , old CRT scanlines or RF haze and such is what I grew up with and sometimes that's ok in it's own way so it's hard to want somethin' to be perfect especailly when you may not have a chance to change it, either way it looks good in the end though doesn't it.
Yeah, same here. I kind of prefer the original look of the video output (that's why I don't use any picture enhancing hardware for the upscaling, too). But it is amazing that people still come up with new devices for the good old C64.
Nice piece of hardware and again a pleasure to watch your video :-)
Thank you sir! So amazing that people still come up with all these new devices for the old systems. :)
@@JanBeta Indeed :-)
Great video as always Jan - you've thoroughly demonstrated the product well. I don't mean to be rude, but I'm not sure if "so much for" is the expression you want to be using. It's usually used in a disparaging context where something has failed or not worked e.g. "So much for my power adaptor not exploding". The videos you've previously used it in may better suit something like "that's all for" or "that's it for". I hope that this doesn't come across badly as I'm genuinely a big fan and I can't fault your command of English at all aside from this very very minor point. Keep up the great work my friend 🤘
Whoops, didn’t know that. Thanks for pointing it out. I’m going to try to change it in future videos. :D
👍Thanks Jan for the video. I only recently received my lumafix board which I haven't even tried out yet, maybe I'll do a comparison between the two solutions. There goes some more $$ that the missus hopefully won't notice 😁
Haha, sorry. :D Would be interesting to compare the two, I heard the LumaFix gives mixed results for people.
@Mr T. Guru I bought a lumafix last year and it seemed to help a little but I ended up removing it and its in a bin with other junk now.
I put a LumaFix in my C64C. It got rid of the jail bars but it made the picture too blurry with too much ghosting. I think I actually preferred the jail bars.
Yes, the results with the LumaFix are pretty hit and miss from what I've heard. Seems to vary a lot depending on the board/VIC-II revisions. This supposedly works better (didn't try the LumaFix though).
I think the jailbars are actually quite sexy and fit the Commodore quite well. Part of the iconic look in a way.
You should try to reverse your soldering iron tip cleaning - place it back in the holder with solder on it and then clean it before you use it again. The solder left on it helps prevent the tip from oxidising while you aren't using it.
Ah, that makes sense. I usually tin the iron again after use (when I stop soldering for the day) but I was not aware that I was cleaning it before putting it back.
Pretty board!
It sure is! :)
Thanks for the video! I did the mod and it’s working. A bit hard to see any difference on original Commodore monitor. I will hook the C64 to a big tv and make the adjustments.
I found it looked quite a lot better on a CRT with the mod. But this particular C64 had pretty bad jailbars.
2:00 hey Canada Post!
Yay! :)
@19:47 Frankly, I like the unmodified picture better. :) The color saturation and the hardware blur looks just proper to me. :)
Yeah, it was really difficult to show. The ClearVideo definitely makes it clearer, especially some color combinations, but it looks way better on a CRT (which in turn is really difficult to get on camera...).
@@JanBeta I get it. Thanks. :)
Jan Beta @LGR just did a great video covering how he captures CRTs on camera th-cam.com/video/aJKV7fTJRIc/w-d-xo.html
4:05 johnny number 5
I knew from the beginning that you were a cyborg but still in Beta.
Haha, you got me!
At 19:42, the comparison between unmodified and ClearVideo. Is it just me or does the unmodified look better with less jail bars? Perhaps sharper too?
It was very difficult to show, the upscaler/capturing made things a bit worse. It looked cleaner in reality, especially for other colors than blue. Take a look at the fuzziness of the colors in the test pattern, much better with the ClearVideo.
@@JanBeta I think you should have used the 1084s instead of the LCD screen for adjusting. The LCD introduces it's own idiosyncrasies that the CRT won't for optimising/adjusting the signals.
@@JanBeta I had a feeling this might be the case. Love your videos Jan, keep up the awesome work hey.
Moin.😂 Einstellen wie beim Sehtest: jetzt besser? - ähm... - Und jetzt? - öhmmm... Das Resultat sieht Top aus.👍
Haha, ja, so in der Art. Die Einstellung ist ganz schön fummelig. Ich bin sicher, dass ich da immer noch einiges optimieren könnte mit mehr Zeit.
It is really hard to picture the output image on a LCD monitor with a camers :-) I have tried it several times, but all I h´get are moire pattern with my DSLR and a telephone picture with the iPad. So, I think, in real life the quality improvement of this device is much better visible. I have noticed, that the LumaFix64 slightly blurrs the picture due to the 47pF coupling capacitors. I want to put some more research in this topic soon after I have finished other projects. I would like to try other values and I might make a version, that gets along without any caps in the signal path.
Yes, definitely difficult to capture this. CRTs can be worse though so I didn't even try that. The device allegedly works best for CRTs and it already was really good with my strange upscaler/monitor setup. Looking forward to any research you are going to do. :)
maybe the camera should also be set to 16 colour mode ;)
@@JanBeta #LGR just did a video about capturing CRT video. Good stuff.
When did this shitty trend of removing the moire filter glass from the camera sensor take hold anyway? Back in the day, the anti-aliasing glass was standard, then i guess around 10 years ago some scammy shops opened up which would for like $400 extra resell you a camera with that thing removed, which was always a terrible idea, because i mean, what do you need a sharper picture for, if it's risking being a completely unusable picture anyway? Then the camera manufacturers jumped on the bandwagon, like "uh, we can just leave the $0.20 part out and charge $200 extra ourselves", then they went like "ah we'll make the premium feature standard and save money anyway" and then they went like "hey we can charge more again if we put it back on, maybe get some people to buy another camera". This is how you create semblance of progress without substance.
"past Jan" 😁
Nice video!
Present Jan says thank you! ;)
Nice! Just what I needed. If only I get my C16 to work, too.
According to DHL, the ICs should arrive here today. We'll see if I can find the culprit. ;)
Jan Beta as long as it‘s not the TED. *fingers crossed*
Good stuff Jan!
Thank you sir! :)
I find the whole route to get a picture pretty complex. Upscaler and lumafix. I watch my C64 now with a S-video cable from Ebay, either via my surround receiver that has S-video input, or on a Samsung 214T, a great 21" monitor I got for 5 bucks at goodwill with 1600x1200 PVA wide angle high contrast panel, decent upscaling and S-video input. I also don't see comb-issues I see in your picture.
Great video as always ❤️👍🏻
Thanks Joseph! :)
It is always a pleasure to see your reviews with our beloved c64.
Did you do the comparison test with svideo cable or only with composite a/v?
It would be interesting, removing the RF Tuner, if the chroma leak is eliminated.
In your video I do not see significant differences (in best), the image seems slightly more blurred.
However, I do not like drastic changes to improve the known side effects of the VIC II.
Certainly not everyone now has a crt display, ClearVideo64 or the old LumaFix, made to improve the low yield on LCD TVs (
worsened by denoise and 3d comb filter, I think)
I have an C64 Breadbin (labeled W.Germany), on CRT in the past I didn't notice these artifacts, now maybe the aging of the components increases it?
With the ClearVideo, you actually lose the RF and composite signals, you only have Luma/Chroma aka s-video. I certainly like to keep my machines original, too. The jail bars belong to the VIC-II in a way. Still it's interesting and cool that there are people working on the C64 nowadays and come up with these neat devices. ;)
I found that the older VIC-II revisions have less jail bars usually. The worst I've seen are the ones used in the cost reduced versions of the C128. And obviously the bars are a lot more apparent on modern monitors than on CRTs that have a natural blur of sorts.
I always find just lowering the contrast on the TV/Monitor helps a lot.. When I use my SONY LCD I put the settings to standard, when I use vivid picture settings the image becomes a bit fuzzy and the lines show up more.. I also have a setting for noise reduction that improves the image.. The CRT I use I just lower the Contrast and Saturation so my scan-lines are more visible.. I will always get the jail bars on my C64 but I don't mind them as I was only used to RF signal when I was a kid in the 80's. It is a shame that Commodore never used RGB, the BBC Micro, Spectrum 128 and Amstrad CPC used RGB but these were created in the UK, Commodore was the USA and the United States did not have RGB..
Yeah, one of my upscalers does some picture processing that completely eliminates the jail bars. I actually prefer the original picture, too, as it's a feature of the C64. But I love the fact that people are still tinkering with the C64 and making new improved stuff.
Tried the simple modulator replacement myself, my experiences was that the Lumafix circuitry just adds noise or blurriness so did not use them - looked better without it. Huge difference from getting rid of the RF though.
Yes, this works really well. I probably could have gotten a better picture with more fine tuning even. Also, recapping the board would probably help, too.
pretty much anything that replaces the RFM will give a better output. Except this one circuit I tried... I have it here, I don't remember where it came from but it's basically two transistors, one diode, + some caps and resistors.
Sweet.... Finally a european seller. I have been looking for one here in europe
Oh, Jay is located in Canada I'm afraid. :/
@@JanBeta That is bad. I just thought it was from Germany, as the website had German flag and was in German. The issue is, that anything above 10,57 Euro, are slammed with additional sales tax of 25 percent. And at this price, the danish state, charge an additional import tax of just under 22 euro on top of it all. All in all, a clearvideo64 will cost me just under 71 euro in total. And that sucks. 😒😒😒
@@brostenen what if they sold PCB only, so you source the other parts and assemble yourself?
@@brostenen that sucks you buy a c64 for 70 euro
@@arjanvanraaij8440 No. I am talking about the Clearvideo64. Not a C64. I did calculate the total cost.
Great job.... It's nice.... Thank you for vedio.... 👍 I will go for one.....
Thank you! :D
JAN BETA, What TTL/CMOS 74XX series chips would be equivalent to a CIA,PIA, PLA chips? I means that would have the same functionality and can do the same functions.
JAN BETA,
1.) Some arcade games use 2 clock signals that are clock inverted signal and clock phase signal, any reasons why?
2.) Any reasons why arcade games use different RAM "access times"?
3.) The ROM's chips data width size doesn't equal when your "subtract" the address start and address end range. Any reasons why they would want blank unused space in the ROM chips not having any code? Is the blank space used in the ROM chips used for compiling the ROM data contents?
Mein C64-II hat auch diese Streifen... und ich habe an denen oft erkennen können ober der Rechner noch was macht, oder ob er gecrasht ist...
Zumindest erkennst du daran, ob der VIC-II noch arbeitet. Stimmt. Insofern also sogar nützlich. ;)
An improved LumaFix, nice!
But seeing that you have to remove the RF modulator, why not go the extra step and install c0pperdragon's component video board instead? I built one of those myself and just the built in scan doubler makes it worth while and still get to keep the original composite and s-video output. If the mod's default colour palette isn't to your liking, then there's an editor that's been available for a few months now.
wish it was 100% compatible, it gets some graphics wrong. If it was perfect I'd be all over that.
@@officermeowmeowfuzzyface4408 Got any examples? I'm genuinely curious and I can check it out easily enough. If it's a case of pixels where there shouldn't or no pixels where there shouldn't then it may be possible to fix in firmware.
Shhh, I might have a video coming up about that some time. ;)
I always use plastic non-conductive screwdrivers when adjusting pots like these. The metal in the screwdriver can interfere with the adjustment.
These specific pots? Naah. These have a plastic gear, and the brass screw is insulated from everything else. There would be some capacitive coupling, but the distance is really ample that it doesn't matter.
Yes, makes sense to use a plastic screwdriver, I have to get a proper one sometime. As Siana points out, I think in this case it doesn't make any difference.
You only need plastic screwdrivers for variable inductors. The iron in the screwdriver affects the flux during adjustment, then removing the iron changes the adjustment again.
Great video, Jan! The IC extractor tool is quite expensive and is about £40-£50 on Amazon. I inadvertently broken a pin off my 8565 R2 VIC II chip trying to put it in a LumaFix board. it was a tight fit so I ordered two more VIC chips. Has this happened to you in the past?
Oh, I definitely have broken some pins. I have a special talent to do it on EPROMs for some reason but I also have at least one VIC-II with a broken leg. The new IC puller is gold if you are working with ICs regularly. It also doesn't bend the pins so it's easier to re-insert the chips after removing. ;)
Great product presentation 👍🏻
Do you know if it is possible to use the C64 without the rf modulator? Like the Amiga 600?
You need to make a little replacement circuit for the RF modulator, as parts of the signals are generated in there.
if you don't need a screen, you don't need any video output. But sure, you can use a C64 without a screen.. to some degree.
Hello Jan, What are these loud speaker on your desk ? Could you tell us more about these ? Thanks !
They are Behringer MS-40. Can't really recommend them but I got them for very cheap some years ago. There's definitely way better sounding monitor speakers out there though.
Hey @Jan Beta. Nice video. Nice Chip puller. Where to get this one? Keep up the good work!
Thanks! I listed some of my tools here (including the IC puller): kit.com/janbeta/lab-equipment
Nice one Jan. I can’t help but wonder if you lost some sharpness with the mod, but there are 4 trimpots, so I bet you could keep adjusting and get a better picture overall. Or maybe it’s just my eyes!
Yes, I think I could have adjusted it better if I took more time. It also should look a lot better on a CRT screen.
The camera is actually ruining the image
JAN BETA,
when you use the "dead test cartridge" which IC chips is this testing or what are you using the dead test cartridge to test?
you also use a "diagnostic Test cartridge" also to test what IC chips?
I'm confused what is the differences of the dead test cartridge and the diagnostic test cartridge and what are you using them for when troubleshooting?
Dead Test only has some basic tests but works with a lot of faulty parts so that's the way to go for black screen/dead machines. The diagnostics cart has slightly more sophisticated tests but needs a loopback cable harness to be able to perform all tests. Plus, it only works if most of the C64 is fine. Both are invaluable tools for troubleshooting in my opinion.
@@JanBeta thanks for the help
1.) When looking at C64 schematics can you give an educated guess by looking at the data buss, address buss where the bank switching is because I "Can Not" tell where the bank switching is at on the schematic?
2.) Why would you want the I/O interface like a PIA or CIA chip to do timing? timing signals for what purpose in the I/O signals?
3.) PLA chips does only the chip selects for the C64 ROM chips and RAM chips? or does the PLA chip does other things like what in the C64?
4.) What kinds of CIA & PLA test do you think the diagnostic tests does? If you didn't have the diagnostic test card how would you do diagnostic tests on the CIA & PLA chips using an oscilloscope and what else?
Nice video. Is that IC remover tool adjustable for different DIP socket sizes?
Extract TL from 24 to 40 Pin :-)
There's different sizes of the tool. Mine is the version that works for 24-40 pin DIP chips.
What are your thoughts about the retrotink? I haven't seen many reviews on how it does when used with C64's video output. It seems it still does produce a white vertical line on the left side of the screen. Any other issues?
So as you stated it is only an improvement not a complete cure ?
Your mileage may vary but for me it did not completely remove the jailbars. They were barely noticable though.
Hello Jan, I have a magic desk cartridge problem. (512k and 1MB) may be someday you would want to make a video about how to burn 512kb / 1Mb games on a magic desk cartridge or make compilations. how about that? I would really like that. Thanks and keep up the good work.
Might do it. I think bwack did a replica MagicDesk cart recently. Would be fun to tinker with that.
When I saw the horizontal bars, I immediately thought scanlines! But, the RetroTink does not currently offer this. I suspect this might change in the future. So, your horizontal bars are the result of something else? I usually only see vertical bars.
I think it simply upscales to "VGA 640x320" by doubling scanlines. Literally doubling the frequency.
Yes, it's not a "real" upscaler, just a scan doubler, hence the faint lines. (At least that's what I understand.)
Wait, the RetroTink does not normally generate any scanlines at all. Are you connecting it through your OSSC? This has been recommended, but I didn't actually try it when I had the RetroTink.
Nice workaround for the picture. Maybe try to use it with GEOS for the adjustment, because the background color pattern is a pain for a color monitor.
Yes, the GEOS background is a good test. Will try that. :)
@@JanBeta Dann gib mal bescheid bitte ob es funktioniert. ;)
try it on a 1702!
Are you doing anything similar for the vic-20
There is an s-video mod for the VIC-20 but not much more. It doesn't have an RF modulator built in so the quality should be about as good as it gets with that mod in place.
Will it work on A commodore 128 ?
This version won't but Jay is working on a special version for the 128 at the moment.
There is a Lumafix 128 that is available on ebay if you want the version of this modification where you don't have to remove the RF modulator. I cant post a direct link as I think links in comments are flagged by TH-cam.
Edit: if links work, here's a link to the item: www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-LumaFix-128-Now-For-the-Commodore-128-128D-Computers/383247753467
@@LeftoverBeefcake lol no
Hello Jan! Why did you drill some many holes in top of Scart-HDMI adapter? Is it so hot while running?
I see you already watched the other video in the meantime. ;) Yes, it gets a bit too hot to be comfortable. Will probably run for years but it's definitely a good idea to provide some cooling.
@@JanBeta I agree. Thank you :)
Do PCB way make a RF shield that is better than the cardboard commodore foil shitjob?
The cardboard stuff actually works pretty well for shielding RF, used one to shield my disk drive from the CRT that was sitting on top of it. ;) Seriously though, most of the time you don't need any shielding at all.
@Ken Mason there is an issue with lead/zinc, the elements aren't very compatible with eachother in an alloy. The tiniest bit of zinc in a pot of lead (regardless of tin content, as opposed to a pot of tin with lead content) starts producing "oatmeal." I learned this from casting projectiles for reloading firearms cartridges, while preparing the alloy. Many kinds of canned food uses zinc in the can manufacturing to seal the crimp line around the bottom, since some use that as a crucible and end up having problems, like I did... The only way I found to remove the oatmeal (zinc) was by washing/fluxing the alloy with copper sulfate, which pulled the zinc out and replacing them with copper molecules. Although if you have a lot of tin in it, it will also pull tin out but at a much slower rate than zinc. Anyway, the important take-away is that lead with zinc impurities makes it "age" fast and begins crumbling in 5-10 years. Ruby Fluid states "Recommended Alloys: Tin/lead, tin/silver, other tin alloys" which makes sense, but they didn't say "Lead/Tin". The first element named in an alloy is the majority of the alloy, so tin/lead alloys are similar but not the same as lead/tin alloys. Make sure you're using high tin content solder with that.
JAN BETA, why do some arcade games use MASKED ROM chips instead of EPROM chips?
Because they are much cheaper to produce in large quantities, and they can be programmed at the factory and delivered ready to go.
@@robbyxp1 thanks, but the only difference between a Masked ROm chips and PROM chip is the price because both can be programmed at the factory so no difference only the price? I'm confused on the differences between H&V sync signals compared to XY deflection vector signals what are the differences between them? Arcade power supplys only use one filter cap rated at 27,000uf any reasons why a big capacitance for arcade games?
The mask ROM doesn't have to be programmed, the chip is manufactured in large quantities with the programming already physically on it ("masked"). The (E)PROMS are empty and have to be individually programmed, so it takes longer if you want to make large quantities.
@@JanBeta oh ok i get it thanks.
Hi, The size character on the screen of mt C64 have different sizes,the ones below are slightly larger than the ones above, can you help me, pleaese, Jorge Garcia.
That's a strange fault, might have something to do with your monitor? Especially modern monitors sometimes have trouble displaying the C64's signal correctly. Otherwise it might be a timing/oscillator problem on the C64.
@@JanBeta Thanks for answer, I am using a S-Video Converter to HDMI for my monitor. I will try to get a monitor that has a composite video port.
that looks a lot like the luma fix i got of ebay a few months ago, it was not called clearvideo64
Oh, the LumaFix is a different device for a similar purpose. The most significant difference is that the ClearVideo gets rid of the RF modulator altogether.
"LIPS" same
Preferred the old one. But really you probably should be showing this on an actual CRT.
Yes, it was incredibly difficult to show the difference. I actually think the picture quality improved but it's not very apparent from the screen capture. Plus, it looks way better on a CRT.
I tried to desolder U12 on my breadbin last night......it didn't go so well. I definitely desoldered some of the pins and now instead of 439 bytes free in basic I just get a black screen. If I piggy back it while applying enough pressure, it will come back........to 439 bytes. lol But I ran a program that identified U12 as being the bad ram chip. Anyway I only have a super, super cheap soldering iron and solder braid. I did use flux and it helped, but still it's a pain. I had no idea how hard this was. I wish I could justify a $200 desoldering station, but I can't. lol Anyway last night I ordered a kit that has a better soldering iron and a manual solder sucker. Hopefully between the two I can get it out. I actually have 8 new ram chips and 8 new ram sockets. I just need to get them in there.
@Mr T. Guru agreed except first remove as much solder as you can from the flanges so you can bend them straight first. It only works when they're straight.
Are you one of those people who use lead-free solder and then complain that they can't get anything done?
Are you sure that the soldering iron you ordered is actually "better"? I think, send it right back, it's probably junk, all of those kits priced around $16 or less with everything in them have a mains iron which seems like it's temperature regulated, but it's not, the knob is marked with temperatures on it which are all lies, it merely adjusts power, and it's not thermally balanced, because it stems from a design intended for active control, it's not pleasant to use when you are experienced and it's even worse when you're not, and since it goes between much too hot when it's not on the metal and much too cold when it's actually in use, you risk lifting pads and damaging a board. Get a proper 936 or so, doesn't cost much, or better yet a Ksger T12 if that's not too much hassle, and get a cheap solder sucker separately. And get good solder. GOOD solder. Your life will change. When things don't go well, you just add your good solder and then suck it off. I don't know what it is about old solder, but it seems to crystallise somehow with time, and you want to add some fresh one on top, but you for sure don't want it to be one of the modern, difficult to melt types.
Apropos cheap things that do something... ZD-211 desoldering iron. $12 or so? Not durable, doesn't live very long, generally about until the second or third time you need to clean it out, so you should be able to complete a few projects with it. Sits right in the middle between having to handle a bit too many things at once, the soldering iron and sucker and so on and having to be swift and precise at it, and an actually expensive desoldering station.
Apropos cheap solder suckers: what i did was to just cut the sheath off mine (ZD-190) and 3D printed a flat knob instead of the angled one, so i can reset it by whacking it against my hip or the desk or something. Because while it's by no means big, my thumb still won't reach comfortably to the top of the plunger, my hands are too small. I think some of the $1 ones you get from China have a flat knob to begin with, so you don't even need to 3D print anything. Now naturally if i could afford an Engineer SS-02, that would be nice, but alas. Anyway with the mod my hand was no longer in such a cramped position and closer to the tip and i could be much better with it.
I finally got it out. My old solder iron was just crap. The new one works so much better and has a temperature adjustment. I still had to crank it up a bit to get the ground pin out though but I got it and it reports 38911 bytes free now.
why not make RGB output? Most people use modern TV screen and have RGB input capability. rgb gives better picture.
Because the VIC-II chip only outputs Luma/Chroma, very different approach than RGB. There’s some hardware using an FPGA that can output RGB but that’s basically bypassing the original graphics chip.
@@JanBeta Thanks for explaining it to me.
@@JanBeta and its not 100% compatible, it gets graphics wrong often enough to be annoying.
Here's another RF modulator replacement board, from eBay, apparently it gives you an S-Video port and 3.5mm audio jack but it looks like it's only for the C64C, C128 and C128D: www.ebay.com/itm/SuperVIDEO-RF-Modulatorersatz-C64C-C128-D-S-Video-Y-C-AEC-Fix-NEUE-VERSION/173855868474
Oh, seems to be a similar approach but without the fancy buffer and stuff. Would be interesting to compare different devices sometime.
Blöd, dass mit Lumafix und ClearViceo kein Kühlkorper mehr auf den VICII passt :/
Eine Möglichkeit ist, den VIC direkt aufs Board zu löten, dann passt auch noch ein flacher Kühlkörper. Finde ich aber eher nicht empfehlenswert.
@@JanBeta Ich auch nicht xD Eine Art Verlängerung, oder ein 90Grad Winkel wären gut..
Jail bars still look terrible each year we have a so called fix and none of them i ever seen completely fix the problem of color banding on text and god awful jail bars
You could try using an emulator if you want a perfect picture.
All the c64 emulators ive ever seen i have never been accurate otherwise the SID and VIC2 chips PSU units would fail along with the VIC2 color banding and jail bars
Nice lips tv 😁
Yay! :D
First comment... yeah :D
you lucky bastard ;)
@@gile849 :))