How To catch a MASTERS Maphacker
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 มี.ค. 2024
- A viewer played a game vs a suspicious Player.
Harstem investigates and judges fairly.
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This guy has been hacking long enough that his MMR has stabilized on his "enhanced" level. That's why his fundamentals are bad and his responses are off - he isn't reacting like a Masters player with hacks, because he is a Diamond player with hacks.
not even diamond. he doesn’t know how to wall properly against a ling rush and forgets to hold position. i would argue that he is plat at best
@kennyawho6444 definitely. His wins come from macro games or cheeses most likely. The moment someone cheeses him his responses go out the window.
I mean i also fail to get a proper wall in every game and even Hero just forgets to set units on hold position in it. Also he atleast go for something like a build, plat players dont do that that often. I would argue for low diamond or at max high plat@@kennyawho6444
@@kennyawho6444 grandmasters also sometimes mess up walls tho. I watched tons of Mana challenges and his opponents sometimes blunder big time. I mean they fail defending cannon rushes in like 40-50% of the time it's hilarious :D.
a plat at max
Lancer also looked right at the medivac in the fog of war twice before he caught your tank push
I said that in the chat but harstem didn't notice it ._. Looked at the oracle before he killed it too when it was at the middle right of the map
Edit: the oracle one happened at 4:15
8:25 and 8:30 for those of you that are curious
Haha this is too funny. Please consider doing a series like this :D Detective Harstem solving SCII crimes.
It seems like there's a repository of suspects too. Maybe more of a spotlight can get these players banned?
It'd be interesting but eventually (immediately) it just becomes a witch hunt
It's like CSI, just dyslexic
@@Alex-pq2fv I'm with you on that one. Next thing everybody will become a suspect, and that's no fun. 80% of my opponents are smurfs, I don't need to add maphackers to the list
lol.. I need to read more before I post, I saw that too.
For people having clocked Lancer at game 1, I think there are a few things going on that makes Harstem very reluctant to declare it immediately:
A) Reputation. Pro player/content creator going around accusing people of maphacking is a bad look. I'm sure Harstem very much wants to avoid that.
B) Tilting reasons. Sometimes people just get lucky. If you get it in your brain that 'maybe they're hacking', losses might get a lot more frustrating. I'm sure Harstem also wants to avoid that.
I agree the first game is super sus. But I'm also not surprised that someone like Harstem needs firm proof to declare anything.
Lancer maphacking and still not breaking 5k mmr is pretty impressive.
Clearly an issue of race. If he just map hacked and always 12 pooled, he'd win!
Well, not really: cheating doesn't make him good at the game…
if I maphacked I'd still suck
5kmmr is insane to hit what do you mean
@@dustincintron1682 that makes two of us
This is honestly really interesting to watch for several reasons, and gives a deeper insight into how you analyze games from a new perspective (not necessarily aiming at the win). Also love the IODIS series, but this is refreshing. I see a lot of constructive comments, but I think it's good that you gave them a benefit of the doubt several times, and it's always easier to judge in hindsight. Still very entertaining to watch. Would love to see more, even if people aren't actually hacking!
"Are they hacking, or do I suck?" when?
There's not much analysis going on here. It's literally just catching them looking at fog of war the moment an enemy unit moves towards him at that spot.
Great series idea!
Harstem initially denying the Maphack Claims, based entirely around Lancer making dumb decisions, forgetting that maphackers are typically going to be less skilled than their MMR would insinuate they would be. If anything, for me, a player making really bad plays and decisions, especially being as high as Lancer appears to be, would only be more sus than if he was also making smart decisions.
Its wise of Harstem. Its better to assume innocence. As he said it himself, in a replay you can always see suspicious things which can be explained in a lot of ways. Random dumb luck is one of them.
@@benjamindeh873 agreed - once is random happenstance, twice might be dumb luck... three times is starting to establish a pattern
and lets be real - we have seen harstem catch cheeses or other stuff through sheer dumb luck or actual mistakes where he went "what are these units doing over here - oh what is THAT?!" XD
@@benjamindeh873of course you should assume innocence, but you also need to weigh evidence correctly even if it's weak evidence. Someone playing worse than their MMR suggests is, if anything, weak evidence in favour of it being a cheater. This is of course only circumstancial evidence, but it is evidence in the direction of guilt rather than a neutral or opposite direction.
It's an easy out to blame your loss on something outside your control like "the opponent was hacking" or "the race the opponent played is overpowered" and ignore the mistakes you made. And more often than not you'll lose because you made a mistake, not because the opponent was actually hacking or the game was imbalanced. That's the mindset you need if you want to improve yourself.
@@Thund3rstormyes but not if you want to find out if people are cheating
Cheating in a videogame you're playing for fun is one of the lamest things imaginable lmao
Especially in sc2. Like what maphack really only helps you with not having to scout
Edit: i dont think maphack makes you that much better. The main parts of sc2 are micro, macro and strategt. Sure, with a maphack you will have an advantage with strategy (you know their build, their rotations etc) and it probably helps a lot vs cheeses. But in a straight up macro game i dont think you could beat players that are that much better than you. Even if you see a push coming, you still need to micro. Even if you see what your opponent is doing, you still need to macro/react accordingly. I doubt a 5k player could beat a 6k player consistently if he had maphack. Or a diamond player a master player. Sure, you would have better odds vs people that are your skill but i really don't think it wouod change THAT much. It just doesn't help you with multitasking, decision making or micro
@@mEtil5656 wat? no
Thinking master people are playing for fun ... they are just like meth addict
@@genesises what else does it help you with
@@mEtil5656I would say less so in sc2. Sc2 cheats are quite a lot milder than some cheats in other games.
so he's been a confirmed cheater for almost a year and he is still actively playing... that's reassuring
Because that was 1 replay on a third party website.
I maphacked for about 6 years and never got banned... on my main account. I still play on it, but I don't hack anymore. Blizzard doesn't care.
@@SPQR_14cretin
@@SPQR_14 garbage human
@@SPQR_14 Glad you stopped hacking, but would you mind sharing why you cheated in the first place? Just curious to understand what someone would gain from it or what the thought process behind it was.
I think it's very strange to expect people to actually make good decisions with full information if they make terrible decisions with partial information.
Usually people who are hacking do so because they are trash, and them hacking doesnt unkake them being trash, you can still tell they are trash
This was fun as hell. I can imagine Harstem creating a new series called: "Is He Hacking?" or something, where you and the chat investigate replays together to determine if a guy is hacking or not. (There's probably not enough actual maphackers on the ladder for this to be viable but this was still fun)
witch-hunt? Please don't
@@VirtuelleWeltenMitKhan You can investigate hacking without it turning into a witchhunt. This is the internet, so it won't, but he didn't say anything about harassing the guy.
It's creepy seeing this because it makes you think. How many smarter people do this and just use the extra minimap info to cheat rather than actually clicking to look at things in fog.
Imagine being such a looser to not only cheat but also loose knowing exactly what's coming towards you way before. Outrageous.
Someone's mad they lost to a cheater
@@HobbyDev-dh9oy Why would one not be mad? Sure, its a game but someone doing anything unfairly is typically annoying at the very least
loser, lose
@@DasSnek yeah video games require our most valuable resource, time.
And not even having the balls to gg.
Cheating, losing and no gg.
Lowest tier of scum
11:15 "He did a good job hiding it." Nope, he's just bad even with maphacks. You're assuming he would make good plays with free information but you're forgetting he wants free information because he can't make good plays.
Edit: Harstem didn't mention some maphacking evidence.
raf74hawk12 mentioned that at 0:25 the hacker clicks right in front of the stalkers after losing vision. Small thing but suspicious.
defeqel6537 noticed at 4:00 the stalkers are moved into position right before the oracle shows up.
mEtil5656 pointed out an oracle peek at 4:15.
WillyMosesP mentioned the medivac peek at 8:25 and (same one) 8:30.
Anyone notice any more examples?
His point is - you can't blame someone for one random click especially as media person lol, that's why he found more replays.
I actually played a while ago and scouted terans drop with xelnagas tower after which he said that i'm cheater and then predicted every single move that i did and just destroyed me. And i bet he was thinking like "everyone is cheating so i will too" about himself, don't be that man.
Yes, harstem missed him looking at the oracle at 4:15
@@mEtil5656Thanks, I'll mention this
@@mEtil5656 Thanks, I'll mention it.
@@mEtil5656Harstem didnt miss it he was seeing it and looking at it at 4:37 he just didnt wanted it to be real at that point that he maphacks.
8.27 --> Is your medivac there? I would think so. This guy is definately a hacker.
The reason why he is making strange moves is because he is probably a low master or diamond player that gets higher with his hacking.
So a pro player like Harstem sees that as "strange moves", but he is just playing WAY above his paygrade :D
he has 3k mmr ahh mechanics
It is. Same with the oracle in game 1 before it got killed
100% this. Harstem thinks he reacts slow, and therefore isn't hacking, but the reason he responds slow is just because his APM and mechanics are poor.
4:15 is when it happened. Harstem missed it but you can see the oracle being very near to where looked
💯 He never had to learn the skills, so why should we be surprised he doesn't have them?
On the very last game he also pulled the probes before the drone was even in vision.
I think it's hilarious that even when it's about catching a cheater people still mainly send in replays in which they win
Please make this a more regular thing Harstem, I enjoyed watching it. I also massively respect your willingness to give the accused the benefit of the doubt. You weren't too quick to please the masses by yelling that you'd caught one, which would have been the easy hype.
I watched it live today and i have to say well done hamster, you really added a lot/made it better by quite a bit with the editing. Great job man :)
yep.. that's the only positive thing about cheaters... they cheat because they're objectively terrible at the games they play. They'll give you a crutch, but they'll never replace skill. Sadly, that incompetence sometimes gives them the appearance of luck in the moment, which means they get to stay in circulation for way longer than they'd otherwise be.
If he was afk for some reason, I might buy the whole "my cat jumped on my desk" excuse if provided, and ONLY if the mouse didn't drag the camera all the way to the middle of the map where a proxy just happens to be. At most it might have gotten bumped to your third or fourth base or one of the extreme corners, maybe a camera location you hotkeyed. May lancer get their ban quickly, they've certainly earned it.
That's not true at all... I was high masters and I hacked for years on my main. Never got banned. I'm "objectively" better than 99% of players at SC2. It was hacks that pushed me into GM with random.
@@SPQR_14 most moral romeaboo
2:55 ladies and gentlemen, we got him.
2:40 😂😂😂 the moment of possible Realization kills me
yeah i like how he reacts and tryhard to stay as neutral as possible but still he's not dumb
How does he know the other guy clicked the stargate? Edit b/c fewer words good.
Oh, never mind, I see now. He's watching Lancer's camera movement and when he's just looking at random bits of the map there is actually enemy stuff there.
also the "lucky split" @4:52 .... "hehehe.... that's so funny"
I was screaming in the chat because he actually looked at the oracle AND the mine drop as well but harstem missed it
Decided to take a break from my coding assignment , and played this guy felt extremely suspicious as he perfectly matched my army movements and dealt with runby's , still ended up winning but what are the odds that a few hours after playing vs him the captain does a video lo and behold! Quite the coincidence my captain!
There was also 4:03 in the video where he clicks his stalkers to intercept the oracle before it shows up
Yeah I saw this too and thought Harstem was going to mention it, he even attack moves them over there
it was already there, you can see it on the minimap. it just breifly turned around and then came back again. He's definitley a hacker but that move wasn't suspicious at all since he could have just been responding to seeing it on the minimap and moving stalkers there in case it came back, which it did
Yeah you are right@@Hephera
I live for harstem's reactions when the evidence gets really bad xD
I think I remember you playing that game. You said while you were playing that there must have been an observer that saw your Raven.
"It's not enough." "No that proves nothing." "I'm still not 100%"
"OK this is blatant map hacking."
At 16:06 (video time) he selects some probes from his main and shortly after sends them do deal with the drone before it's visible in any way.
I love this! Please make this a series. Its so fun to watch you analyze this :)
it's not everyday you catch a cheater with multiple replays to analyze
The only thing he could have done worse is look directly into the opponents main.
the fact that you were unsure he was hacking after watching just the first game blows my mind
He's a public figure. He shouldn't put his image at risk by wrongly accusing someone of hacking. He probably wanted more evidence as confirmation
yea I get that but he clicked on the guys proxy @@pablovirus
It's just innocent before guilty, chill
That's normal
chill cry bb@@aloe7794
1st was absolutely sus, but I see Hartsem’s point in saying it wasn’t egregious enough to commit to a conviction.
He needed a larger sample size that could more solidly eliminate coincidence as an excuse.
Still gets absolute blasted by your widow drop “LOL”(harstem voice)
Me: See's him move two Stalker's to each nexus. "Oh, clearly he saw the stargate."
Harstem: "Did he even respond in any way after seeing the stargate?"
Yeah that's probably a standard move for a normal 5K player, but it's definitely too good for this guy lol.
10:21 Lancer exposed himself! 😂
I need to remember to look at my opponent's main base menacingly every once in a while so if they check the replay They *THINK* I'm maphacking. Then die to proxy DT.😂
saw it live on stream but i am happy you decided to make it a video aswell! gj detective!
Great video, Captain, a fun watch indeed.
Going to need a detective Harstem series after this banger video!
NEW HIT SINGLE OUT TODAY!!! "LANCER! LAAAAANCCCCER!"
That was actualy funny, I'd like this to be a format ^^
Thank you for editing the search time out Hamster
This is somewhat common. Usually perfect response to cheese, ability to take excellent engagements, etc.
Time to send the evidence to the part-time sc2 intern at Blizzard !
I think Harstem was giving him way more credit lol... lancers dumb calls are to make him look legit.
harstem said "I played lancer the other day" right at the start and I thought "wow, indie ttrpg LANCER by mastiff press? I didn't know harstem was enough of a nerd to play rpgs, let alone such a relatively obscure one."
More videos like this would be great! I appreciate the fair and impartialness until there is more and harder evidence of hacking. It helps to keep people from crying hacker whenever they lose but also helps to identify actual hackers.
I don't play sc2 since 5 years. But you doing really great job!! Keep going mate.
We are being judgmental here. Can a poor adept not change his mind? Are we frowning upon change of heart regards to war atrocities? Shame.
I think it's important too look at the amount of wrong calls vs right calls. Like even in the first game, Lancer had stalkers in position when anything came to harass, which is nothing uncommon/weird, but what makes it weird is that he only has them there when harassment comes, and not when everything is clear
‘A friend of mine’ has maphacked before and apparently you can very easily turn it on/off so you could like turn it on sometimes or maybe when you think it’s actually good training to constantly turn it off more and more
Love this kind of content
He pulled the stalkers back to catch the Oracle when it was in fog of war
Saw this live today was so fun
I should have send a replay of mine 2 years ago, i was Protoss vs a terran.
I had an observer on his army, (in front of the natural expansion on Oxide LE)
I was moving back and forth between his 2 possible third bases, and he was imitating my moves, i won, but after looking at the replay i saw he had no vision for the entire game
10:10 lancer what are you doing lancer? lancer noooooo!
the guy has 1 play style, make basic units and hold. he can just defend and maphack your attacks, due to travel time and successful defense being compounding, that results in wins over time.
he doesnt need to know advanced strategies, or try to figure out how to counter every build or play, he just relies on having knowledge of your movements/positions and tries to be ready.
hes caught off gaurd in rush games probably because he doesnt look at his mini map that often, to react to a rush properly. even if hes maphacking.
anyone whos a casual player understands mini map blindness. his hacks have made him not improve that aspect of looking at the minimap constantly, he just needs to notice when big blips are coming his way.
but in mid to long games, just knowing where every attack comes from, should be more than enough to translate to wins, with most basic unit comps.
hes probably been relying on hacks for so long that the process of learning the game mechanics probably are asking too much of him.
Cowardly hackers don't hack because they are the sharpest spoon in the dumpster....
CSI:SCII
Thank you for your service Harstem. I definitely feel like I've heard this guy's name before, and it definitely seems like he's been hacking for more than half a year on this account already. I can only imagine how much of an impact he's left on so many other players. Thank god he actually sucks and loses often anyways :)
I especially appreciate how hesitant you were to 'convict' and how much you were willing to nuance any evidence until there really was an overwhelming amount of it. No one should get flamed/banned for a single click or two. I wish Blizzard would take steps to avoid transmitting so much extra information to all connected clients, similar to how LoL combatted map hacks.
I really enjoy overwatch cases for cheaters. I love seeing a high level player's perspective on how many coincidences you're allowed to have before it's too suspicious.
I think we still have that old and in bad shape Atlas somewhere, maybe I'll do some map hacking too soon.
That's high tier content.
Its funny that he knows and still loses the worse way possible lol
5:22 no... harstem. this game is legit SUS as all hell. i can almost say with 99.9999% accuracy that he's maphacking
0:31 he have an excellent game sense :)
I see Harstem has finally also become part of the Special Hacking Investigation Team - winter would be proud!
This reminds me of old avilo videos, who often exposed Map hackers.
That 10:37 's look is the reason for why to pay internet, play sc2 and watch your videos everyday
Would be even funnier if he accidently clicked the stargate through fog of war.
It's always funny watching a replay go from "No this is all normal and doesn't indicate cheating" to "oh he's cheating" in one moment.
How bad do you have to be to be map hacking and then lose to a ling flood that you can see coming... twice
Saying there's a chance that he accidentally clicked the minimap right onto the Stargate is extremely generous. Like maybe less than 1% chance that happens. By the second time he's done it, that's gotta be case closed.
less than 1%. way less. accidental clicks happen sure. right on top of a hidden structure? twice in the same spot? vanishingly small chance. at that point likelihood of hacking is like 10x higher than random chance.
Additionally, his blink away from your tank with just the one stalker, even in slow motion, that was waaay too fast after the first tank shot. And somehow he knew to only blink the one first?
It seems like he had detection after all.
Watching this live was so funny
I remember thinking "I bet this guy's map hacking' I watched the replay, and Roasted myself harder than Harstem in IODIS lmao.
cool video idea, imagine cheating and still losing
Pretty sure maphacks aren't truly as useful until you're at a higher level than this where scouting is almost a must in plenty of matchups and players can handle the extra input. Scouting ofc still necessary at master's level but something tells me the other commenters stating his real skill level is around low-mid diamond is more accurate
@@HobbyDev-dh9oyquite the opposite, maphacking is super good at low level, since if you truly know the game, you know what your opponent does and where hus army is simply by scouting and thinking, only at low level where they dont know how to scout nor think is it really good
@@filipbitala2624 I think you are wrong. I'm D3 and I think even I would beat any maphacking silver league player. I'm just going to attack at 9 minutes with 200 supply. What is he going to do about that, he doesn't have the macro to defend it in time. And if I would maphack against a D1 player, I think I would still lose, because their scouting, micro and decisionmaking is so much better.
@@fdcrat if you were maphacking and saw literally everything your opponent is doing, you could always have units that counter his, attack from angles where he isnt, and be back to defend whenever you know his army is back, and btw thats exactly what captain did, he made a timing attack with hid army, and because the enemy was bad he lost at the spot
Haratem can remember sc2 games from 1860 by sOo but cant remember his own games against the greatest maphacker of our time
the fact that his mmr is that high, and still forgets to put a zelot on hold command is a dead give away,
The thing about hackers and making bad decisions is this: if they were skilled and knowledgeable enough to always make pro level decisions AND they were map hacking, they'd be 7k+ MMR, rather than 5k.
Lancer, we’re all laughing at you.
The sad thing about this is once you know these players are out there, you'll always question if the guy who defeated you did it in a fair way. Really takes away from the enjoyment of the game.
@4:00 he clearly attacked the oracle that was coming in the fog of war ?
could be repositionning stalkers. The peak into fog of war is what's really sus.
@@Joffrerap that was one of the few cases where he attack-moved
Im halfway through the video
I’m waiting for the twist
When someone map hacks do they have information about what the opponent has in production? Or does it only give them vision ?
Love this vid
In the first replay within the first 4 mins the only two clicks he does outside of his own base are onto a random unscouted location on the minimap that just happened to have the proxied Stargate! One click could be accidental but two is maphacking 100%
10:39 there it is, finally. you see
Would love to see an entire series where this is all you do, watch multiple replays of people who are suspected of cheating and determine if they really are or not. Name and shame.
He's hacking bro. That's the thing about hackers: they are crappy players. They make decisions that have zero game sense. That's why they hack in the first place. Then they try to do "normal" looking stuff like scout double gas with his probe to try and hide it.
Actually I believe, that he is toggling his maphack, so that he isn't sus throughout the game, but in order to get info in rough scenarios, he turns it on and gathers information. But his game understanding is too low to make the exact right response to what he sees. Also obviosly, he is hiding it by not being perfectly in position.
sees 2 minutes, doesn't watch his vision: NOT HACKING! Great video btw. You guys need to get him banned :D
I have played him some times and never realised honestly xD
Harstem, I know you do custom games with pros sometimes. Would you ever consider a 4 person round robin bo1 maphax league? Maxpax of course is on the invite list
It seems that he also has the auto lost hack.
11:57
the reason he does nonsense with perfect vision and nonsense without perfect vision its because its trying to imitate "normal" behaviour while having the perfect vision
being a middle ground in between those
No, the reason is because he's just not a great player.
@@SPQR_14 yeah, also true asf
I feel like he intentionally makes the exact wrong play sometimes (putting down a battery when opponent isn’t even approaching) as a way to try and hide the fact that he’s cheating. “Why would I do that if I could see his army?? See! I’m innocent!”
A lot of chinese maphackers and smurfs appeared after CN server has been closed
GOT EEEEEM
Imagine Rank Roulette including map hacker replays lol