Top 10 Area Control Games
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ค. 2024
- Rodney Smith of Watch It Played & Stephen Buonocore of Stronghold Games join Tom in listing their Top 10 area control games!
00:00 - Introduction
02:00 - Stephen’s #10
02:59 - Tom’s #10
03:58 - Rodney’s #10
04:39 - Tom’s #9
05:58 - Rodney’s #9
06:53 - Stephen’s #9
08:32 - Rodney’s #8
09:15 - Stephen’s #8
10:17 - Tom’s #8
10:59 - Rodney’s #7
12:01 - Tom’s #7
13:10 - Stephen’s #7
14:13 - Tom’s #6
15:29 - Rodney’s #6
16:23 - Stephen’s #6
18:32 - Stephen’s #5
19:55 - Rodney’s #5
21:12 - Tom’s #5
22:10 - Stephen’s #4
22:54 - Tom’s #4
23:31 - Rodney’s #4
24:25 - Tom’s #3
25:08 - Rodney’s #3
25:43 - Stephen’s #3
26:17 - Rodney’s #2
27:27 - Stephen’s #2
29:15 - Tom’s #2
30:35 - Tom’s #1
31:54 - Rodney’s #1
32:52 - Stephen’s #1
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Having Rodney on anything makes it way better, but it doesn't compensate for the lack of editing with pictures of the games.
Watching Tom internally freak out and try to politely tell his guests their lists are garbage... this was one of the most entertaining lists I've watched. Thanks!
It was fun for us to watch it up close too :)
+matthlowder it's hard to tell if Tom purposely shakes things up or if he really is just kind of a jerk, either way it's entertaining
I think part of the problem is Tom does Top-10s all the time, so he has had to develop very strict definitions to keep all the lists distinct. Steve & Rodney aren't constantly producing Top-10 lists, so they naturally have looser guidelines.
I thought the same thing. Some personalities, make distinctions naturally as well.
I think the problem is more that Tom always self imposes these strict definitions, but never seems to tell anyone else what those restrictions are.
Tom should give guidance to the cohosts if he's going be so hung up on his definition of area control.
I wish I could give this comment more than one thumbs up.
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Rodney, Tom, Steven (xxx triple overlap, xx double overlap)
10 Twilight Strugglexxx, Bootleggers, El Grandexxx
9 Small World, Revolution, Medina
8 El Grandexxx, Lancaster, Hannibal
7 Cyclades, Liberte, A Game of Thronesxx
6 Carcassonne, Mission Red Planet, Blood Ragexx
5 Blood Bowl (Card Game), Dominant Species, Amun-Re
4 Forbidden Stars, Wallenstein, Nexus Ops
3 Blood Ragexx, Age of Empires III, Twilight Strugglexxx
2 A Game of Thrones, Twilight Strugglexxx, Struggle of Empires
1 Kemet, El Grandexxx, War of the Ring
Great video but I missed seeing the game art/box.
Ya I miss that a lot.
Very true, I listen passively and I will peek over when something sounds interesting. I'm used to seeing the box and titles.
Yes please put the art and the pictures inside the videos. I almost stopped watching, because they are that important in my opinion.
same here.
agreed
so happy to see Rodney with the dice towers top ten
This was a fun thing to do :) Something you won't normally see from me!
+Watch It Played it was kind a strange seeing you rating games, but i liked it 👍🏼👍🏼
I liked it :)
Also, I loved your picks for top 5 in this list. You have my kind of taste in area control games
What happened to the production value in this video? No recap in the end and no graphic at the bottom except for the actual # they're discussing.
* Appears twice
** Appears three times
Stephen:
10. El Grande**
9. Medina (a Stronghold game!)
8. Hannibal: Rome vs. Carthage
7. A Game of Thrones: The Board Game*
6. Blood Rage*
5. Amun-Re
4. Nexus Ops
3. Twilight Struggle**
2. Struggle of Empires
1. War of the Ring
Tom:
10. Bootleggers
9. Revolution
8. Lancester
7. Liberte
6. Mission: Red Planet
5. Dominant Species
4. Wallenstein
3. Empires: Age of Discovery
2. Twilight Struggle**
1. El Grande**
Rodney:
10. Twilight Struggle**
9. Small World
8. El Grande**
7. Cyclades
6. Carcassonne
5. Blood Bowl: Team Manager - The Card Game
4. Forbidden Stars
3. Blood Rage*
2. A Game of Thrones: The Board Game*
1. Kemet
Tom, you should have said non-war game area control because yeah, most war games are area control.
what happened to the pics of games you used to show while giving the countdown? Also no written lists appeared at the end of the video! :(
I love that Tom's refuting of the fairly rational, well presented explanations of why the games on the other lists ARE area control basically boils down to "well, I don't think they're area control."
I agree with Rodney and Stephen, war games do have an area control element to them most of the time, so they shouldn't be excluded.
I think Tom wanted to exclude them, because otherwise it would have been top 10 war games. I could be wrong, but feel that it is something to this effect.
I actually agree with Tom for the most part on his arguments ........ except for Small World. That is definitely area control/majority.
I would agree that it's area control, but I don't think it's area majority
To take over an area you just have to have a majority, so I'd agree with Nate.
Yeah you get points for every area you control... I would have thought that's practically the definition of an area control game.
An ultra-rare peek inside Rodney's brain for some game opinions! Love it. Now that the cat's out of the bag, can we expect a regular Watch it Played segment where Rodney and Pep shout game rankings at each other until someone flips the table? Fingers crossed.
Ha! We plan to keep the table flipping (and shouting) to a minimum :)
Got a misplaced audio cue at 4:16. Also, no title cards?
It was like getting the hurry-up music during an Oscars speech.
Just messing with Buonocore
ikr? I was expecting Zee and Sam to tackle them right there
My wife thought it was a conspiracy to drown out Steven.
Glad to see Rodney on the dice tower!!
Awesome!! Loved this banter.
So basically, that list was Tom's top 10, and 20 choices he doesn't agree on...
Tom needs this type of dynamic more often. Having people outside his gaming group pushes him more. Not to mention this is the first top 10 in ages where it wasn't full of games I've heard a hundred times before on other Dice Tower top 10 videos.....just sayin'
What's w/ the overlapping voice @ 3:47 & music @ 4:16?
Yes! Rodney finally admitting some of his favorite games! Thanks Dice Tower for making it happen!
Yep - the Dice Tower got the scoop :)
Great discussions, loved it
Rodney! Love you man!
Thanks Larry :)
Yeah, it is really hard don´t like someone like Rodney. He is always smiling :)
I like rewatching those videos, especially this before/after Top 10 War games.
It's a war game, it is about war.It's an area control game, because it is area control.
Tom being on opposite sides of those issues in these two videos.
I would be nervous to partake in this list, Tom is ruthless. Stephen handles himself well for nearly being bullied.
I enjoy these top ten a lot more if you give a visual of the games your talking about.
Me too!!!! I'm new to gaming so many of these games I've never played so looking at the contents, play pieces, boards etc. just adds to these lists and keeps me interested. I usually won't watch the whole list if there are no graphics...
I stopped watching
I agree, I kept tabbing over to see the games they were talking about and was sad to not see a picture, or usually even the name on the screen. Wasn't a video guy hired thanks to the successful Kickstarters?
10) Cuba Libre
9) Wallenstein
8) Mexica
7) Empires: Age Of Discovery
6) El Grande
5) Byzantium
4) Liberte
3) Tikal
2) Dominant Species
1) Twilight Struggle
Dogs of War is one my favorite area control games, in part because the area control mechanism is unusual in that multiple players contribute to the outcome in an area.
That's a good one! Rats, should have had that on my list!
Love Dogs of War! Funny I never really thought of it as an Area Control game, but I guess it is.
Tom meant Area Influence for this list.
"The Area Control mechanic typically awards control of an area to the player that has the majority of units or influence in that area. As such, it can be viewed as a sub-category of Auction/Bidding in that players can up their "bids" for specific areas through the placement of units or meeples." -bgg entry on Area Control
High Command Deck Building Game
Warmachine or Hordes
- Having the majority in a location long enough for you to score it
Eight-Minute Empire Series (Original, Legends, Lost Lands) - because its all about area majority
Twilight Struggle
this was great
Buonocore!!!!!!!! And the Canadian invasion. Get them on more, hahahaa, loved this vid. And that rarest of things - getting opinions of games out of Rodney =9)
So, a point about the discord on what's an area control game: we had two people agreeing nicely, and one inserting strife - looks like you may be the troublemaker here, Tom =8)
what a pleasant surprise to see these guest cohosts!
Hannibal: Rome vs. Carthage actually is an "area majority" game that meets Tom's criteria. Yes, it's also a war game, but multiple cities form provinces, and the side that controls a province is the one who controls the majority of cities in that province. It's once of the most important parts of the game, so yeah, it very much belongs on this list.
I really enjoyed this video. Steven Buonocore had me rolling.
I used to play Smallworld as one and only area control game. But then I play Mission Red Planet, Cyclades, Kemet, I immediately fell in love with the genre.
Still though, so sad that Smallworld did not make it that much into the top 10. It is an area control for me because some races do have some specific agenda over specific areas and other races can block them from taking advantage there.
Hey Mr. Rodney, glad to see you here 👍
Thanks Sandy, was fun to drop by :)
I wonder what Rodney thinks about Scythe, now that he's even made a Watch It Played video of it. It seems to be right up his alley with area control, asymmetric powers, fighting with imperfect information...
It does, doesn't it? :) I did think it was pre-mature to put on the list, as it's so new and most people won't have played it at this point, but it likely would have made the list. Though it wouldn't have fit the definition Tom wanted us to use here :)
haha Fair enough! But in this case, I think he would have had to agree... those points for controlling hexes at the end of the game are as important as anything else, and the building tiles add even more "area manipulation" into the mix. Scythe may not be pure area control like El Grande but it definitely is one of its core mechanics.
btw This was a great top-ten! I wish you could collaborate with the DT network more often :)
A game that was just recently reviewed fills a spot on this list: World's Fair 1893.
Where on your top 10 would you put it?
+Doma Agape I would put it around 4
Hannibal: Rome v Carthage was an excellent selection
Great Top 10! I find I very much agree with Rodney's choices! I was happy about Kemet, Blood Rage, Carcassonne and, especially, Blood Bowl Team Manager! This game seems so underrated to me. Great choices! I guess I'll have to try Forbidden Stars and AGoT 2nd Edition as soon as possible!! :)
Do the top ten games that could use a legacy version!!!
I think Tom discussed this in a Q&A.
Omg! At 32:01 Rodney drops the F-bomb. You'd never hear that word over on Watch it Played!
My publicist will be issuing an apology :)
Yeah, this is an amazingly rare insight into Rodney's head. heh We already knew he loved Kemet, but it was great to hear him also talk about other games he enjoys. Great video! :-D
Haven't thought about Carcassonne, though i often go for farms. Thanks, Rodney ;) so, my pick is it then, especially when it is one of my favorite games.
This list began cracking when Tom questioned Small World being an area control game (Whaaaaa?!). Then, he grimaces at Cyclades, yet includes Mission Red Planet. I "raged out" and shut it down with the Blood Rage disagreement. This list is a mess.
oh, awesome! wasn't expecting to see Rodney on here, but it's a nice surprise :) I would love to see more collaboration between you guys in the future!
Hey - thanks Kevin, glad you didn't mind my intrusion :)
+Watch It Played definitely not! Big fan of your channel, my friends and I have learned to play many new games using your videos!
P.S. - you should do one for Cosmic Encounters :D
first thought: everyone seems to always get these lists wrong, when it's clear they're supposed to be limited thought experiments.
second thought: wait...tom just probably sends really vague e-mails and doesn't clarify what he's thinking. which is half the fun, i suppose. but there'd probably be less confusion if he went into more detail before shoot?
or people just don't read. ;p
I agree with Tom when it came to misunderstanding of what area control board games are. Stephens' top ten was more of a "here's a list of games with regions on the board."
Great to Have Rodney on though! Fellow Canadian.
Love R Smith in there.
Btw Cthulhu Wars is my fave AC game. Pure area control really.
4:15 lol @ squelching Stephen
I'm surprised no one had Tigris & Euphrates on their list. Now that's an amazing area control game.
2:54 the actual moment Tom's OCD about not sharing future information causes his head to explode.
Rodney Smith you are great, Kemet is also my fav!
Where does Conquistador fall in your estmation? If don't recall right off, A MID- 70 'S Game put out by SPI. Thought Age of Empires looked like a re-issue when got a glimpse of the boards, but 40 plus yrs, so just asking.
Oh God this was funny, I was waiting for them to throw the big dice at eachother
Blood Rage and Nexus Ops contain area control parts, but it's not the main focus in either. In both, you often get the majority of your points from winning (or in Blood Rage losing) battles. In both, you can also get a smaller number of points from controlling areas related to quests.
Not all war games are area control games. In a lot of these games such as Chess, Hordes, etc, you are trying to eliminate pieces from the opponent. Positioning is important, but control isn't as much a concept.
In contrast, in Axis and Allies, Risk, and Cyclades, while you don't need more area to win, controlling these spaces is a huge part of the games strategy. The more space you control in Axis and Allies, the more resources you have, etc.
I'd argue most of the games are area control. The distinction that usually makes sense to me is area control = one player's units in a space, area majority = multiple players' units in a space.
To be fair if you hold an area through all ages and pick up the Quest cards for that area you can pick up quite a few points from area control.
I find it's one of the most effective ways to win Blood Rage. Quests are huge. Find that one weak, already pillaged province no one cares about, and lock it down for that quest.
+Watch It Played particularly if you get the "double quest reward" blessing too.
Blood Rage is area control
Really liked that. What about a top 10 of civ style games next?
It was hilarious to see Tom bursting into arguing and then accepting that he was actually doing area majority list :) yeah, many of the picks are kind of area control. Well, maybe except that auction game, but i haven't played it.
Weird sound effect at 4:18-4:20.
Achievement unlocked.
This is basically what it would be like if I was in a Top 10 list with Tom.
Rodney looks like a scrappy lumberjack who specializes in shimmying up trees to saw off the top. It works. I heartily approve... Tom looks like Indiana Jones' shifty younger brother, who likes to collect artifacts if people hand them to him or he cons them away from people. Buonocore looks like... the head of a board game publishing company...
And we're all wearing red!
Well played Rodney. Well Played. P.S. Thanks for teaching me Euphoria.
My list:
1. Imperial
2. El grande
3. 1960: The Making of the President
4. Endeavor
5. Lancaster
6. A Study in Emerald (1st Edition)
7. Shogun/Wallenstein
8. Rattus
9. Yspahan
10. Samurai
Blood Rage is most definitely an area control game in my mind, it's also drafting! More than a miniature games.
I think this sets a precedent that might allow a Tom, Rodney, Rahdo top ten list! I think Rahdo talked about that in a recent podcast, and I thought it was a good idea!
My favorite area control might be Chinatown, although I am interested to see if people agree that it is an area control game.
If not that, then Power Grid.
I beak all my rules on other peoples channels, but you won't see me doing this on my own content! Was fun to do it here though.
I had Rodney's #1 pegged. I saw play through. I do not know about Steven's Hannibal as I thought that is more of a point to point game. My favorite Area games are war-games Breakout Normandy (1 of Jason's favorites) & Turning Point Stalingrad. BBG ranks them as Area Impulse and when I purchased they we called them Area movement. Maybe these do not fit here but there are no hexes. And Tom you are mean to Steven. I liked his choices.
Holy Cow! top tens with guests ? ( except for Stephen haha) are great! keep em coming! Record at cons? awesome!
Did you change out camera? It seems like the video quality is the best it's been in this video! I can really see the disdain for Buonocore from Tom in crystal clear HD. ;) LOL!
This was super entertaining- even if it’s more than 7 years old!
Wonder if any of them considered Tammany Hall in this Top Ten?
Yeah, if it were my list, Tammany Hall probably would've been my #1. Amazing game.
Don't see how it didn't make any of them, easily Top 5 area control of all time.
full list ?
A few picks that might (should?) have made the list:
Java
Diskworld: Ankh-Morpork
Entdecker: Exploring New Horizons
Fief: France 1429
Triassic Terror
(I deliberately discluded pure wargames like the COIN series)
Glad to hear Bootleggers mentioned. Is the Eagle version different than the Mayday version?
I agree with Rodney Smith and Stephen Buonocore more on what is area control than Tom's narrow definition. Great list from both of them whereas Tom's list was kinda meh (except Dominant Species, Dominant Species is greatness!!!)
So funny watching Tom freaking out though ahahahaa
Fun video! Great to see Rodney on the Dice Tower. One thing though, is it me or is the video sped up just a little?
I haven't played most of these, but I'm surprised Tammany Hall didn't crop up anywhere.
Looking rather Lumberjack, Rodney.
Also I'm so glad to hear Rodney rate games. Watch out, it's a slippery slope.
Not for this lumberjack :)
1. Mission: Red Planet: Was lucky to be a part of the beta testing. I enjoy this game a lot. Needs more plays!
2. Alien Frontiers: For awhile this was in my top 10, it currently is my #11. Great game, love the expansions!
3. Belfort: This sort of replaces Pillars of the Earth for me, although that game did not have area control, that's why this is better, it has more mechanisms.
4. Lords of Vegas: Only played 3 times, but have won each game. I enjoy the game quite well, but doubt I would buy it. 2 people in my meetup have it.
5. Ark of the Covenant: Since Carcassone made it into the video, I will add this game. It is the Biblical Carcassonne.
6. Carcassonne: Hunters and Gatherers: I have yet to play the original Carcassonne, but have played this and liked it.
7. Age of Empires 3: I agree with Tom on this, fun game.
8. Enemy Chocolatier: Simple game, not elegant, but was fun.
9. Star Wars: Rebellion: Not sure if this counts. Controling areas is 2ndary, but has great advantages for either side. I will include an 11th game, to make up for this possible's exclusion.
10. Murana: Definitely liked it, and needs more plays (but not in a hurry), but a fairly fun game.
11. Memoir '44: yeah it's a war game, my favorite war game, and in general don't like war games much. So this probably shouldn't be on the list, since Tom seemed to want to exclude them. But these are all the area control games I like and have played, that I could think of.
As for others listed:
Blood Rage: I really want to play this game a lot!
El Grande: a game I still want to try.
Area Control is in the eyes of the beholder!! Something like that.
YES! Lancaster Love!
Tom, as a guy married a central Pennsylvanian I appreciate the way you pronounce Lancaster.
Nice.
Alien Frontiers, cmon.. Epic area control! Love it.
War of the Ring may not be an area control game, but it is my favorite (Star Wars Armada/Rebellion) game! :)
I guess Area control is to broad a term to make a small list on and Tom was more talking abour Area influence :-)
Tigris and Eufrates is also something I would expect to pop up on area control, even Cosmic Encounter even tough BGG does put it in that category.
One could even reason worker placement is area control :-)
Sorry, guys, Tom's right: Area Control games are games where multiple players have pieces in the same section of the board, and the person with the most in that area wins (or gets the bonus for) that area. Is it a bad name for this mechanic? Maybe. But this is the mechanic talked about when this term is mentioned.
In games like Smallworld, you're pushing the boundaries to increase your area and multiple players can't have their pieces in the same space so it's not area control.
+Christian Bone disagree, sure majority of areas is a strategy, but many combinations are about controlling specific areas, i.e., mines, hills, swamps, arcane sites, etc. sure u can separate out games that don't hold multiple factions in the same space, but that's creating a micro genre. Most games have conflict to resolve multiple factions in the same space, small world streamlines this. If I know u need hills or ____ then when I reinforce I'm going to put more troops on those sites other players are most interested in. If I have more than you can conquer, you can't take it (majority!)
How does Lancaster (one of Tom's picks) fit this definition at all?
We can debate what the definition of an area control game is, but I think it's important to remember in this discussion is that the name of something ("Area Control games") is not the definition of that thing. That is, saying "It's a game in which you control areas" is not sufficient to classify a game as an area control game, because "A game in which the players control areas" is not the definition of an area control game.
I know Tom dislikes this game, but our game group loves Gangster from Mayfair. Kind of old-school art, but love the take that element. We've played it for years! I'm no t sure if it's even available anymore.
Cool video
Area majority is area control but area control is not always area majority
was the video speed up like 1.2-1.5x?
mimics looks a bit jaggy and jumpy and it's less relaxing than the usual tops
The lack of Chaos in the Old World is a stinkin' travesty!
sounds issue around 4:20-4:40. I laughed at it
Surprised not to see Chaos in the Old World on this list!
Great video guys. It is cool the see Rodney finally giving some insight on games he likes, lol. By the way, what do you think of City of Remnants? It is a mixed bag of mechanics, but area control can be a pretty big thing. Do you guys enjoy that one?
Yes. It played longer than I wanted, but I hope we see the game get a new edition. I think Isaac was tapping into all kinds of clever things in that game.
Yeah, I agree. I don't mind long, epic style games like Forbidden Stars, but City of Remnants I have a lot of trouble getting it to the table because its length is too much for what it is. It would be awesome to get a second edition streamlined and a good bit shorter.
curious if tom would count Cosmic Encounter as an area control game.
I think area control is an overall, general term for a style of game, area majority is a far more focused, and narrower subset of the genre. Like fiction and sci fi. In fiction you would get everything from romance to sci fi. Area control gets you everything from war games to area majority. .... and Medina, apparently?!?
I like a fair few on the lists but I also like Lords of Vegas and The lighter and Newer title from last year The King is Dead. I believe it's a reworking of and older game König von Siam which I haven't played. Also enjoy the occasional game of Runewars but I will leave it to Tom to argue against that 1 :)
The King Is Dead would have been a good pick!
Lords of Vegas is on my list!
Mine are:
Fief, 8 Minute Empire (Legends), Tammany Hall, Belfort, Archipelago. None of these games get love on the dice tower.
I am confused by Tom's definition of area control. Is keyflower an area control game according to your definition ?
I think it's auction/bidding
Tikal and Akrotiri would have made my list along with some of the ones they mention here.
Man, after all these years of making of Top 10 lists, you would think by now they'd realize they should take 5 quick minutes beforehand to define the category.
How is Small World NOT area control though? It's one of the definitive area control games! It's certainly more of an area control game than the war game Sam classified it as.
I thought that another TH-cam tab was playing in the background at 4:17...anyone else thought this?
i taught Rodney forgot about FS, so that was a BIG suprise :D :D