You’re a pastor that is in conflict with the early Church Fathers and the early Church. Are you thinking they misunderstood or that the Apostles misled them?
Couple of honest questions then. The first MAIN question is "cannot two things be true?". Sodom and Gomorrah is about all sexually immoral acts. It /is/ about about the acts you described and it /is/ about acts of homosexuality with the men selling themselves out to one another. Well- Sodom is. In Romans Ch.1, Paul describes the history of Sodom and immorality to the Greeks (really all of Ch.1 for full context, but v. 26-27 specifically on Sodom). In 2 Kings 23 it describes the word "Sodomites" from the town of "Sodom" and why it's called what it's called, due to the acts of men laying with other men and often doing so as a worship to other idols. Question 2- If Romans 1/Paul's letter is false, and so is 2nd King's (more than likely Jeremiah at Ch. 23) identification and definition of the city; how and why? (I could add Ezekiel 16 as an honorable mention maybe in terms of Sodom's description, the origin of "Like mother, like daughter", describing Sodom's history of prostitution.) EDIT: I wanted to add that I absolutely love it when people are willing to dig into the word really deeply and study it. But I want to warn that, especially as a pastor and a person in a position that people of faith listen to, it can be very dangerous to misrepresent the word of God. While I don't think this is your intention at all, the video /does/ come off with a message of a way for someone not of any faith to excuse themselves or 'debunk' their acts to those /of/ faith.
@ministermattocks7570 One of, yes. Did you read the entirety of Ezekiel 16? Verses both before and after that describe detestable acts before idols such as prostitution. It's important to know verses in context so that we don't end up cherry picking what we only want to see.
@@skeptic.pastor "Strange flesh" is clear. And when we read the Holy Bible as a whole, homosexuality is always shown to be an evil thing. It's never said to be good. Not in Romans, not in Leviticus, not in Jude, and not in any other book.
@@skeptic.pastor its also not rape. Yada means get to know and can mean sex ONLY in the context of heterosexuals as hebrew had a seperate word for same sex acts.
As long as you jump right over (KJV) Romans 1:21-32 and Jude verse 7, I guess you could possibly come to hold this view. This teaching is very misleading, right down to the end of the video. For anyone dabbling in or struggling with this particular sin (or any other, for that matter) Jesus blood can wash it away. Call on the savior as laid out in Romans 10. Don't do mental gymnastics to try to fit your particular pet sin. Jesus came to save everyone that would put their faith in Him and accept His free gift (Ephesians 2:8 and many other places).
@@akbluefox8506 "Don't do mental gymnastics to fit your particular sin" is a wonderful way to put it. Homosexual acts get a lot more hate and condemnation in society than a lot of other sins, but all sins (besides blasphemy) are equal in the eyes of the Lord. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Regardless of our sins, He will put them as far as the East is from the West from us.
NOT SO. Romans 1 if u read it all is Paul having a go at the heterosexuals he knew who used same sex acts in their idolotry cults which is unatural for straights.
Ezekiel 16:49-50 Says the Sins were arrogance, self-indulgence, lack of conviction/being unconcerned (All things that so far fit Postmodernist America), not helping the poor and needy (people talk about it but don't really do much usually), prideful and detestable acts (often interpretted as general wickedness and sexual immorality). Sure, not being hospitable is bad, but it is not the only thing going on here, nor is the forcefulness of the immorality. I think this attempt to argue that the sexually immoral acts (as they are explicitly called out to be in other parts of the Bible and are likely alluded to within "detestable acts" in Ezekiel) is a bit of a red herring to defend a lot of what was wrong in Sodom and Gommorah that we are emulating today which includes reckless sinfulness, not being convicted of said sin (in this case defending it) and self-indulgence (not to mention the pride of thinking we can just ignore what Hebraic tradition and all of Christendom has included as interpretation of Scripture in favor of an explicitly cultural/wordly interpretation that has never held any merit at all but has been pushed for only the past decade).
We can agree to disagree. But it definitely isn’t a story about homosexuality. You are not seeing same gender relationships but gang r**e. Those are two very different different things.
@skeptic.pastor as I've already clearly stated, Ezekiel explains there were even more reasons than the one you are fixated on. Disagreeing with this is disagreeing with Scripture. If you read what I wrote, it's very clear I never said it was only a story about homosexuality. And your video misses a huge amount of context that Ezekiel provides on why they were punished. Because Leviticus 18:22, 20:13, and Romans 1:26-27 condemn those acts as well (along with various others), we know they are also a sin. Ezekiel mentions part of the punishment was for vile acts which is largely interpreted as all kinds of sexual immortality. Trying to argue was no element of one specific type of sexual immortality because it is culturally expedient is almost universally accepted as incorrect as it has traditionally, and likely always, has been interpreted as PART of why they were punished. It also seems likely that your use of this falsehood is meant to muddy the waters on the subject because of cultural appetite. My suggestion is to tread carefully because the Bible often implies small amounts of deception (the yeast of the pharisees as well as descriptions in Jude and 2 Peter and other passages throughout Scripture) are where the seeds of false teachings stem.
@@jourdinthedragon I appreciate you kind and gentle reminder/encouragement about being cautious with misrepresenting the word of God. No one here is trying to argue because this is a subject matter about homosexuality specifically, we're trying to caution against reading the word of God in a way that one can twist it to fit themselves and see/not see what they wish rather than as it's written, as this can be so so so dangerous... Especially if one is a pastor that people look to for guidance. We're on the same team here, same God @skeptic.pastor . These comments are out of concern, care, and love.
for people questioning two angels walking up to the town, the Hebrew word for Angel is malach (malachim in the plural) and it simply means, "Messenger" and does not always refer to a celestial being, but someone who is bringing a message from God or spreading his word. So a better descriptor of these two people, would be more akin to traveling missionaries in ancient times.
I do agree, but I worry about how you’re your message is perceived. Read Leviticus 18:22-24. Homosexuality is a sin. It’s clarified in other Old Testament scripture and it’s clear as day in the New Testament. I agree, the main sin here seems to be specifically rape. But that doesn’t mean that homosexuality is not a sin. 2 Peter 2:6 we see that the fate of the ungoldy will be the same as Sodom and Gomorrah. In 1 Corth 6:9 we see that people who don’t repent from homosexuality will not Inherit heaven. We can’t fully rule out that homosexuality wasn’t apart of the decision for gods destruction of these 2 cities. However, even if it wasn’t, we know their fate is the same. Interpreting this account in genesis the way you are could lead some people living in sin to continue doing so and to find justification in your words. I hope I don’t come across as disrespectful. I understand this is a delicate subject and people lost in homosexuality deserve respect. It’s not my place to place judgement but it is my hope that they find repentance and union with God. It’s very hard thing navigating this subject and showing others the truth without hardening their hearts. I commend you in your effort and I hope you can understand where my point of view is coming from. God bless you!
Also I would like to add, that the Old Testament specifically states that a man should not lie with a man like he does a woman. In the New Testament, the disciples of Jesus mention homosexuality as sin several times. The word they used in Greek was arsenokoitai. It translates literally to man bed. The word during this time period was used to refer to men that have sexual relations with other men. You can ascertain this by looking at the context of which this word is used in other Greek literature of the time period. Outside of the Bible, it meant homosexuality. Why wouldn’t it mean that within the New Testament as well? There are many things that are not 100% clear and debatable. Homosexuality being a sin is definitely not one of them.
Leviticus is a dead law, so God said almost 40 times or did God lie???? Also it doesn't mention homosexuality but male same sex acts in idolotry. So u lied there. Also it wasn't rape in sodokm but not helping the poor n needy (ezek 16;49) so ur wrong there also. I hope u repent of lies in Gods name.
@@ministermattocks7570what does that even mean? There’s literally no difference between a same sex act and a homosexual act? I have friends who were gay and abstain from sex with men. They just abstain from sex. I’m positive that god will have favor with that man. Being attracted to the same sex is not sinful. Acting upon that attraction is sinful. And you can’t argue this. You would have to rewrite the meaning from Ancient Greek. The Ancient Greek was very clear in its term meaning sexual acts between the same sex. A man and a man having sex is a sin. And in regard to levitical law, the moral laws of the Old Testament are still binding. If you argue against that, then holding down a woman and raping her would be totally cool. The New Testament never addresses rape. The argument of the old law being dead is ridiculous. Purity laws and food laws were done away with. It’s very specifically addressed why. The need for separation of Israel from the gentile nations was removed. Those the purity and food laws were no longer required. That does not in any way mean that rape somehow god legalized also. I’ve met plenty of lesbian or gay Christian’s that abstain and are trying to abstain and repent from their sin. It’s no different than me. I can’t just go and have sex with 50 different women as a straight male. Many Christian’s get this wrong and think homosexuality is worse. I disagree. They’re both equally bad sins and can equally be destructive. Am I attracted to women? Yes. Does than mean I try to court them? No. I’m not lying about anything I’ve spoken on. We could argue that one of us may be misinformed. I would not accuse you of lying. However, we could be mis-communicating. I have no problem with you. If you believe in Christ, then we are brothers or sisters in Christ. That said, I’m concerned for anybody that thinks they can go out and just conduct in immoral sex and god approves it. There’s no evidence to support this. And in regards to why sodom and Gomorrah where destroyed, we have a lot of information but no single direct reason. Sins of Jerusalem where destroyed for there sinfulness. What those sins where isn’t 100% understood. Rape was likely a reason why. Sexual immorality likely. At that time, even by your argument, homosexuality was a sin. But yes, not helping your neighbor was also a factor and maybe the lead factor.
@@ministermattocks7570 This is unnecessarily aggressive... This person is being very respectful in their disagreement. Their intention is certainly not LYING in God's name. Let's turn down these flames okay? We're all on the same team here.
Even if this was true (and it is not (see other comments here)) what difference would it make? Elsewhere the Bible clearly says that homosexual acts are sinful.
@@skeptic.pastor Sorry, Jeremy, but you are wrong. I am not sure which passage you are referring to as being a mistranslation or what you mean by "well documented" but the Bible consistently says that homosexual acts are wrong. I know there are alternative interpretations but most people can see they come from not wanting to Bible to say what it does and trying to make it say something else, and that there is no real evidence for them. I'm happy to engage if you want to. I also have a verse by verse deep dive on the topic.
Love your videoes, sadly telling that you have a lot of great content but the only one I've seen with a large number of comments is this one and it's primarily bigots. Keep doing you, your work is extremely cool and interesting!
Matthew 19 12 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ says God prefers same-sex marriage and confirms transgender people are born that way. But he's not a minister of God because he sells the gospel. All of your fake ministers know the Bible is telling them to return the money they were never supposed to take. Both Jesus and Elijah returned as women and will marry each other. Jesus is female, Elijah is male in gender. Trump supporters, false prophets, anyone selling the gospel, and bigots will all soon be taken. Everyone that remains will celebrate 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🎉
You’re a pastor that is in conflict with the early Church Fathers and the early Church. Are you thinking they misunderstood or that the Apostles misled them?
Couple of honest questions then. The first MAIN question is "cannot two things be true?". Sodom and Gomorrah is about all sexually immoral acts. It /is/ about about the acts you described and it /is/ about acts of homosexuality with the men selling themselves out to one another. Well- Sodom is. In Romans Ch.1, Paul describes the history of Sodom and immorality to the Greeks (really all of Ch.1 for full context, but v. 26-27 specifically on Sodom). In 2 Kings 23 it describes the word "Sodomites" from the town of "Sodom" and why it's called what it's called, due to the acts of men laying with other men and often doing so as a worship to other idols. Question 2- If Romans 1/Paul's letter is false, and so is 2nd King's (more than likely Jeremiah at Ch. 23) identification and definition of the city; how and why?
(I could add Ezekiel 16 as an honorable mention maybe in terms of Sodom's description, the origin of "Like mother, like daughter", describing Sodom's history of prostitution.)
EDIT: I wanted to add that I absolutely love it when people are willing to dig into the word really deeply and study it. But I want to warn that, especially as a pastor and a person in a position that people of faith listen to, it can be very dangerous to misrepresent the word of God. While I don't think this is your intention at all, the video /does/ come off with a message of a way for someone not of any faith to excuse themselves or 'debunk' their acts to those /of/ faith.
ezek 16;49 is clear, the sin of sodom was not helping the poor n needy.
@ministermattocks7570 One of, yes. Did you read the entirety of Ezekiel 16? Verses both before and after that describe detestable acts before idols such as prostitution. It's important to know verses in context so that we don't end up cherry picking what we only want to see.
The Epistle of Jude is very clear. There, it specifically condemns the people of Sodom and Gomorrah for going after strange flesh.
You are correct but it doesn’t say homosexuality and what you see in that story is gang r**e not consensual sex.
@@skeptic.pastor "Strange flesh" is clear. And when we read the Holy Bible as a whole, homosexuality is always shown to be an evil thing. It's never said to be good. Not in Romans, not in Leviticus, not in Jude, and not in any other book.
and going after angels is strange flesh, nothing to do with LGBT
@@skeptic.pastor its also not rape. Yada means get to know and can mean sex ONLY in the context of heterosexuals as hebrew had a seperate word for same sex acts.
As long as you jump right over (KJV) Romans 1:21-32 and Jude verse 7, I guess you could possibly come to hold this view. This teaching is very misleading, right down to the end of the video. For anyone dabbling in or struggling with this particular sin (or any other, for that matter) Jesus blood can wash it away. Call on the savior as laid out in Romans 10. Don't do mental gymnastics to try to fit your particular pet sin. Jesus came to save everyone that would put their faith in Him and accept His free gift (Ephesians 2:8 and many other places).
@@akbluefox8506 "Don't do mental gymnastics to fit your particular sin" is a wonderful way to put it. Homosexual acts get a lot more hate and condemnation in society than a lot of other sins, but all sins (besides blasphemy) are equal in the eyes of the Lord. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Regardless of our sins, He will put them as far as the East is from the West from us.
so If I drink a lot of wine I can wash away the gay? does it matter if it is red or white?
NOT SO. Romans 1 if u read it all is Paul having a go at the heterosexuals he knew who used same sex acts in their idolotry cults which is unatural for straights.
@ what about 1 corth 6:9?
@@TheHondarider35924 the modern version u mean where they ADDED in the modern word homosexual even though adding to Gods word is a sin?
Ezekiel 16:49-50 Says the Sins were arrogance, self-indulgence, lack of conviction/being unconcerned (All things that so far fit Postmodernist America), not helping the poor and needy (people talk about it but don't really do much usually), prideful and detestable acts (often interpretted as general wickedness and sexual immorality). Sure, not being hospitable is bad, but it is not the only thing going on here, nor is the forcefulness of the immorality. I think this attempt to argue that the sexually immoral acts (as they are explicitly called out to be in other parts of the Bible and are likely alluded to within "detestable acts" in Ezekiel) is a bit of a red herring to defend a lot of what was wrong in Sodom and Gommorah that we are emulating today which includes reckless sinfulness, not being convicted of said sin (in this case defending it) and self-indulgence (not to mention the pride of thinking we can just ignore what Hebraic tradition and all of Christendom has included as interpretation of Scripture in favor of an explicitly cultural/wordly interpretation that has never held any merit at all but has been pushed for only the past decade).
We can agree to disagree. But it definitely isn’t a story about homosexuality. You are not seeing same gender relationships but gang r**e. Those are two very different different things.
@skeptic.pastor as I've already clearly stated, Ezekiel explains there were even more reasons than the one you are fixated on. Disagreeing with this is disagreeing with Scripture. If you read what I wrote, it's very clear I never said it was only a story about homosexuality. And your video misses a huge amount of context that Ezekiel provides on why they were punished. Because Leviticus 18:22, 20:13, and Romans 1:26-27 condemn those acts as well (along with various others), we know they are also a sin. Ezekiel mentions part of the punishment was for vile acts which is largely interpreted as all kinds of sexual immortality. Trying to argue was no element of one specific type of sexual immortality because it is culturally expedient is almost universally accepted as incorrect as it has traditionally, and likely always, has been interpreted as PART of why they were punished. It also seems likely that your use of this falsehood is meant to muddy the waters on the subject because of cultural appetite. My suggestion is to tread carefully because the Bible often implies small amounts of deception (the yeast of the pharisees as well as descriptions in Jude and 2 Peter and other passages throughout Scripture) are where the seeds of false teachings stem.
@@jourdinthedragonI’m not here to argue. We can agree to disagree. Go in peace.
@@jourdinthedragon I appreciate you kind and gentle reminder/encouragement about being cautious with misrepresenting the word of God. No one here is trying to argue because this is a subject matter about homosexuality specifically, we're trying to caution against reading the word of God in a way that one can twist it to fit themselves and see/not see what they wish rather than as it's written, as this can be so so so dangerous... Especially if one is a pastor that people look to for guidance. We're on the same team here, same God @skeptic.pastor . These comments are out of concern, care, and love.
for people questioning two angels walking up to the town, the Hebrew word for Angel is malach (malachim in the plural) and it simply means, "Messenger" and does not always refer to a celestial being, but someone who is bringing a message from God or spreading his word. So a better descriptor of these two people, would be more akin to traveling missionaries in ancient times.
I do agree, but I worry about how you’re your message is perceived. Read Leviticus 18:22-24. Homosexuality is a sin. It’s clarified in other Old Testament scripture and it’s clear as day in the New Testament. I agree, the main sin here seems to be specifically rape. But that doesn’t mean that homosexuality is not a sin. 2 Peter 2:6 we see that the fate of the ungoldy will be the same as Sodom and Gomorrah. In 1 Corth 6:9 we see that people who don’t repent from homosexuality will not Inherit heaven. We can’t fully rule out that homosexuality wasn’t apart of the decision for gods destruction of these 2 cities. However, even if it wasn’t, we know their fate is the same. Interpreting this account in genesis the way you are could lead some people living in sin to continue doing so and to find justification in your words. I hope I don’t come across as disrespectful. I understand this is a delicate subject and people lost in homosexuality deserve respect. It’s not my place to place judgement but it is my hope that they find repentance and union with God. It’s very hard thing navigating this subject and showing others the truth without hardening their hearts. I commend you in your effort and I hope you can understand where my point of view is coming from. God bless you!
Also I would like to add, that the Old Testament specifically states that a man should not lie with a man like he does a woman. In the New Testament, the disciples of Jesus mention homosexuality as sin several times. The word they used in Greek was arsenokoitai. It translates literally to man bed. The word during this time period was used to refer to men that have sexual relations with other men. You can ascertain this by looking at the context of which this word is used in other Greek literature of the time period. Outside of the Bible, it meant homosexuality. Why wouldn’t it mean that within the New Testament as well? There are many things that are not 100% clear and debatable. Homosexuality being a sin is definitely not one of them.
Leviticus is a dead law, so God said almost 40 times or did God lie???? Also it doesn't mention homosexuality but male same sex acts in idolotry. So u lied there. Also it wasn't rape in sodokm but not helping the poor n needy (ezek 16;49) so ur wrong there also. I hope u repent of lies in Gods name.
@@ministermattocks7570what does that even mean? There’s literally no difference between a same sex act and a homosexual act? I have friends who were gay and abstain from sex with men. They just abstain from sex. I’m positive that god will have favor with that man. Being attracted to the same sex is not sinful. Acting upon that attraction is sinful. And you can’t argue this. You would have to rewrite the meaning from Ancient Greek. The Ancient Greek was very clear in its term meaning sexual acts between the same sex. A man and a man having sex is a sin. And in regard to levitical law, the moral laws of the Old Testament are still binding. If you argue against that, then holding down a woman and raping her would be totally cool. The New Testament never addresses rape. The argument of the old law being dead is ridiculous. Purity laws and food laws were done away with. It’s very specifically addressed why. The need for separation of Israel from the gentile nations was removed. Those the purity and food laws were no longer required. That does not in any way mean that rape somehow god legalized also. I’ve met plenty of lesbian or gay Christian’s that abstain and are trying to abstain and repent from their sin. It’s no different than me. I can’t just go and have sex with 50 different women as a straight male. Many Christian’s get this wrong and think homosexuality is worse. I disagree. They’re both equally bad sins and can equally be destructive. Am I attracted to women? Yes. Does than mean I try to court them? No. I’m not lying about anything I’ve spoken on. We could argue that one of us may be misinformed. I would not accuse you of lying. However, we could be mis-communicating. I have no problem with you. If you believe in Christ, then we are brothers or sisters in Christ. That said, I’m concerned for anybody that thinks they can go out and just conduct in immoral sex and god approves it. There’s no evidence to support this. And in regards to why sodom and Gomorrah where destroyed, we have a lot of information but no single direct reason. Sins of Jerusalem where destroyed for there sinfulness. What those sins where isn’t 100% understood. Rape was likely a reason why. Sexual immorality likely. At that time, even by your argument, homosexuality was a sin. But yes, not helping your neighbor was also a factor and maybe the lead factor.
@@ministermattocks7570 This is unnecessarily aggressive... This person is being very respectful in their disagreement. Their intention is certainly not LYING in God's name. Let's turn down these flames okay? We're all on the same team here.
Even if this was true (and it is not (see other comments here)) what difference would it make? Elsewhere the Bible clearly says that homosexual acts are sinful.
It doesn’t. That is a mistranslation that is well documented. I have a verse by verse deep dive on the topic if you are interested.
@@skeptic.pastor Sorry, Jeremy, but you are wrong. I am not sure which passage you are referring to as being a mistranslation or what you mean by "well documented" but the Bible consistently says that homosexual acts are wrong. I know there are alternative interpretations but most people can see they come from not wanting to Bible to say what it does and trying to make it say something else, and that there is no real evidence for them. I'm happy to engage if you want to. I also have a verse by verse deep dive on the topic.
@@petercheyne I have a video that explains it.
@@skeptic.pastor OK, cool. Give me the link and I'll take a look.
@@skeptic.pastor Cool! Give me the link and l'll take a look. (Sorry if this appears twice. The first attempt to reply didn't show up for me.)
This is all very ill-informed. As a "deep skeptic", you need to doubt not just your doubts as you do here, but also your beliefs.
we must pray for homophobics to repent
You’re saying that homosexuality didn’t exist in olden times? Then how would you classify Publius Aelius Traianus Hadrianus?
its homophobia that is the sin
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
I have a verse by verse video that addresses all the clobber passages.
only modern bibles slip in the modern word homosexual....adding to Gods word is a sin
That Jude verse 7, though 🤷🏻♂️
Love your videoes, sadly telling that you have a lot of great content but the only one I've seen with a large number of comments is this one and it's primarily bigots. Keep doing you, your work is extremely cool and interesting!
🌈🌈👏👏
Matthew 19 12 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ says God prefers same-sex marriage and confirms transgender people are born that way.
But he's not a minister of God because he sells the gospel.
All of your fake ministers know the Bible is telling them to return the money they were never supposed to take.
Both Jesus and Elijah returned as women and will marry each other. Jesus is female, Elijah is male in gender.
Trump supporters, false prophets, anyone selling the gospel, and bigots will all soon be taken.
Everyone that remains will celebrate 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🎉