Why is Watcher greedy? How did a watcher kill their channel? What did Watcher do? Well, I think Watcher is doing the right thing! Watch to see what I mean!
My issues with them: 1. This was in planning for a long time. They NEVER considered talking to their patreon members before changing the service many already paid for? 2. They really expected patreon members to pay for this service as well, when people were already CHOOSING to pay? 3. The fact is - they are lacking content. Only have 1-2 good stuff that the majority like. Yet patreon members paid and other viewers watched videos they didn't enjoy JUST to give them views. Hoping they'd find their stride one day and NO ONE wanted them to fail. 4. In all the time they were planning this, at best they never considered fans who live abroad/can't afford the service or at worst, they were completely ready to block them out of the community. 5. Until Friday, they were okay with sacrificing a chunk of their community because they overestimated how many people will stick to their plans. The only reason they're making changes now is because they realized, oh shit... we didn't think THESE many people will leave. 6. They AREN'T making content that warrants these expenses. They don't NEED to be making such huge purchases. They're choosing to make huge purchases and want fans to pay so they can make the money back. The content itself isn't anywhere close to the quality in substance, to what they claim to be making. At the end of the day, it's their business and sure, they can run it as they wish and go for their goals. But they're CLEARLY not cut out for business. I don't think they're greedy or bad or anything. Just naive/think they're better than they are. I'm an artist myself and know the whole "artists should be paid for their hard work". I just don''t that's the case here. It's like a chef making a business on simple meals, with a consistent customer base who LOVE their delicious food and tip them/spread the word/bring friends/etc, and suddenly buying all fancy stuff, raising prices for food that only rich people can now eat. Now their old customers can't even enter the place. Do they have the right to do what they want with their business? Absolutely. Still douchey. They took a symbiotic relationship and suddenly decided it's okay to lose so and so people who have been there this whole time, purely based on the fact that they can't afford this.
This was a really well thought out comment and you bring up some really good points! Thanks! There’s a lot to dig through though so I’ll do my best to respond to all the points. 1-3. I agree that in the planning it’s not great to not talk to your patreon subscribers, because it’s similar to stock holders in a business. However, I think the difference with patreon is that you’re supporting the creator without expecting a real influence in how that support is used. I’ve always thought that the supporters on patreon are more supporting the creators of Watcher, not necessarily Watcher as a company (which is why I’ve supported creators in the past as well). 4-5. I honestly think it’s a huge oversight to not think of the fans in other countries and their ability to not be able to pay them. However, I think that there are definitely still workarounds for that particular thing. It’s also hard to say how much of the community you’re talking about is a ‘chunk’. I feel like if it were large enough they would have considered it, right? 6. What kind of content would you expect with the budget that they’re currently using? I would agree that they’re probably not cut out for business either haha It honestly kind of fits into that stereotype about artists. The tough thing is that, generally, if something is good, or rare, it costs more. The example you gave is really good, however, I think that one of the main reason why people would go to that person is because they’re getting an extremely good product for virtually no cost. You tell your friends because you can’t believe that food this good could be so inexpensive. But now, instead of being happy for the chef because he’s getting paid for what the value of the food is, there’s jealousy and contempt because you can no longer enjoy it. I really appreciate you taking the time to write that comment and I’d love to know your thoughts! i think discussions like this are a lot of fun :)
please do not be ignorant remember that they also have fans outside the US.. for some countries 6 dollars is huge (cos conversion rate/weaker echange rate compared to US dollar etc.) for example 6 dollars is like 346 pesos (in my country the philippines) that amount could be use for atleast 3 days worth of lunch plus transpo expenses … so not all of there fans have 6 dollars just laying around..
In my country 6 dollars is 287 pounds, plus taxes it would amount to about 340 pounds. Giving the average income is around 4k pounds, 340 for a single channel subscriptions is completely insane and unrealistic
Honestly I think that’s a good point! I didn’t think about exchange rates and things like that. I think it’s workable though if they were to do location-based subscriptions. But, I think where that gets difficult is that you’ll have people sign in from Mexico (using a VPN) and get to watch it for not a whole lot. Then Watcher would have to do Spanish dubs of their shows so that us silly Americans don’t watch it (because most Americans only speak English), which is doable but just takes more money. Then Watcher could make a Watcher en Español channel and use that money to fund it maybe? Idk. There’s prolly a lot of different work arounds for that. I think that’s a great point though!
No watcher fan is complaining about wanting better quality content. They could be filming on a Nokia and people would watch. Cr1tikal owns a company that matches advertisers with youtubers. In his video, he breaks down the cost of what advertisers are likely paying to be in their videos- accounting for channel size and video runtime. It is a *shit ton* more money than Charlie makes, and yet he’s able to fairly pay his many employees with zero issue. It is not that Watcher *needs* this money. It’s that they *want* more money. Also, no, people don’t have another six dollars for a steaming service. In *top* of like every other streaming service people have, and the fact Watchers audience is mostly teens and college students, no, they cannot afford it. Insanely disrespectful and classist thing to say. Again, they are getting *far more* than enough money. On top of the fact they have a Patreon with a shit tom of subscribers, pretty pricey merch, live shows, and millions of views per video. We have BEEN paying them fairly for their content.
I guess I’m having a hard time understanding what’s wrong with wanting more money? Do you not want more money? Are you willing to work at your job for free? Why aren’t you working at your job for free? It seems like a lot of people want money because they’re complaining about not being able to afford the $6 it costs. Do you think Charlie started that business out of the goodness of his heart? No. He wanted more money. For teens and college students, that’s just an unfortunate part of being at that point in life. If I couldn’t afford to go to the movies, I didn’t. If I couldn’t afford the money to eat out, I didn’t. I mean honestly if I couldn’t afford to eat, I didn’t. You don’t think we’ve been spoiled as a TH-camr audience to expect everything to be given to us for free?
5k per million is not enough to support 25 people living in LA. Their total view count for their channel is 418m views, which, after giving 25 employees 75k per year (which is 35k below the average a single person needs to live there) they’re left with $215k, which again, is not enough to support 3 people living in LA with families.
I personally just feel like everyone is taking this too seriously and blowing it out of proportion like they are evil guys when they just made a dumb business mistake. People are so starved for TH-cam drama they had to jump on someone. Like there is no reason why there is 23 videos about this situation.
i would very gladly subscribe to watcher tv, if only I knew if the price showing up is in usd or aud ;-; like as a fan from australia... i lowkey wanna know if i'm paying the price shown or if the price is secretly higher
@petcopaul I think what makes it so wild is how slighted everyone feels like. . . They aren't greedy for wanting to fund for their projects? I think people forget that while they are the content creators and we're the consumers, they also have a right to make content they want? I saw a lot of comments telling them they like the low budget things better and to sacrifice quality and it just comes off so selfish tbh. They have a crew to think about who I am sure puts more than 80 hours in and the cost of living especially in California just kind of makes it necessary for them to find more funding. Smh people need to lay off, this is such a little thing. Treating this like the Shane Dawson drama and it's just guys wanting to increase their funding to make better content they can be proud of and we can enjoy 🤣
Advertisers are paying AT MINIMUM 15K for a single ad. They are making bank on top of the patreon, merch, live shows, etc. They don’t need more money. This is greed.
It’s not greed. The money is not going in their pockets. They have 25 employees that they have to compensate reasonably (Id assume cost of living in California is expensive), they have to pay for many things to actually create the videos which you enjoy, they themselves have families to take care of. Would you want to be compensated for the work you have done? I’m assuming your answer would be yes. What they are wanting to create goes beyond what they are able to do at TH-cam. They are limited on this platform. So they are thinking outside the box to provide even more content. We are not entitled to their work. This is their job, this is their hard work. They should be paid for the work they create.
@@ariellegrubThey are not limited. They have been providing free content for years, and advertisers love content like theirs. And again, THEY ARE BEING PAID FAR MORE THAN ENOUGH.
Watcher is doing far way more different (a very good one) than those content creators that's milking on them on this issue and like comparing themselves to watcher, like 😮💨...
Imma be honest, I’m not 100% sure what you’re saying here but it sounds like you agree? Haha I think that Watcher’s content quality is way higher than other TH-camrs, especially with how many subs that they have
My issues with them:
1. This was in planning for a long time. They NEVER considered talking to their patreon members before changing the service many already paid for?
2. They really expected patreon members to pay for this service as well, when people were already CHOOSING to pay?
3. The fact is - they are lacking content. Only have 1-2 good stuff that the majority like. Yet patreon members paid and other viewers watched videos they didn't enjoy JUST to give them views. Hoping they'd find their stride one day and NO ONE wanted them to fail.
4. In all the time they were planning this, at best they never considered fans who live abroad/can't afford the service or at worst, they were completely ready to block them out of the community.
5. Until Friday, they were okay with sacrificing a chunk of their community because they overestimated how many people will stick to their plans. The only reason they're making changes now is because they realized, oh shit... we didn't think THESE many people will leave.
6. They AREN'T making content that warrants these expenses. They don't NEED to be making such huge purchases. They're choosing to make huge purchases and want fans to pay so they can make the money back. The content itself isn't anywhere close to the quality in substance, to what they claim to be making.
At the end of the day, it's their business and sure, they can run it as they wish and go for their goals. But they're CLEARLY not cut out for business. I don't think they're greedy or bad or anything. Just naive/think they're better than they are.
I'm an artist myself and know the whole "artists should be paid for their hard work". I just don''t that's the case here. It's like a chef making a business on simple meals, with a consistent customer base who LOVE their delicious food and tip them/spread the word/bring friends/etc, and suddenly buying all fancy stuff, raising prices for food that only rich people can now eat. Now their old customers can't even enter the place.
Do they have the right to do what they want with their business? Absolutely. Still douchey. They took a symbiotic relationship and suddenly decided it's okay to lose so and so people who have been there this whole time, purely based on the fact that they can't afford this.
This was a really well thought out comment and you bring up some really good points! Thanks! There’s a lot to dig through though so I’ll do my best to respond to all the points.
1-3. I agree that in the planning it’s not great to not talk to your patreon subscribers, because it’s similar to stock holders in a business. However, I think the difference with patreon is that you’re supporting the creator without expecting a real influence in how that support is used. I’ve always thought that the supporters on patreon are more supporting the creators of Watcher, not necessarily Watcher as a company (which is why I’ve supported creators in the past as well).
4-5. I honestly think it’s a huge oversight to not think of the fans in other countries and their ability to not be able to pay them. However, I think that there are definitely still workarounds for that particular thing. It’s also hard to say how much of the community you’re talking about is a ‘chunk’. I feel like if it were large enough they would have considered it, right?
6. What kind of content would you expect with the budget that they’re currently using?
I would agree that they’re probably not cut out for business either haha It honestly kind of fits into that stereotype about artists.
The tough thing is that, generally, if something is good, or rare, it costs more. The example you gave is really good, however, I think that one of the main reason why people would go to that person is because they’re getting an extremely good product for virtually no cost. You tell your friends because you can’t believe that food this good could be so inexpensive. But now, instead of being happy for the chef because he’s getting paid for what the value of the food is, there’s jealousy and contempt because you can no longer enjoy it.
I really appreciate you taking the time to write that comment and I’d love to know your thoughts! i think discussions like this are a lot of fun :)
please do not be ignorant remember that they also have fans outside the US.. for some countries 6 dollars is huge (cos conversion rate/weaker echange rate compared to US dollar etc.) for example 6 dollars is like 346 pesos (in my country the philippines) that amount could be use for atleast 3 days worth of lunch plus transpo expenses … so not all of there fans have 6 dollars just laying around..
In my country 6 dollars is 287 pounds, plus taxes it would amount to about 340 pounds. Giving the average income is around 4k pounds, 340 for a single channel subscriptions is completely insane and unrealistic
Honestly I think that’s a good point! I didn’t think about exchange rates and things like that. I think it’s workable though if they were to do location-based subscriptions. But, I think where that gets difficult is that you’ll have people sign in from Mexico (using a VPN) and get to watch it for not a whole lot. Then Watcher would have to do Spanish dubs of their shows so that us silly Americans don’t watch it (because most Americans only speak English), which is doable but just takes more money. Then Watcher could make a Watcher en Español channel and use that money to fund it maybe? Idk. There’s prolly a lot of different work arounds for that.
I think that’s a great point though!
it’s refreshing to see someone challenging a popular view point even if watcher didn’t make the best business decision in my opinion I subscribed
@hi89297 thanks! I appreciate that comment :)
🤮🤮🤮
No watcher fan is complaining about wanting better quality content. They could be filming on a Nokia and people would watch.
Cr1tikal owns a company that matches advertisers with youtubers. In his video, he breaks down the cost of what advertisers are likely paying to be in their videos- accounting for channel size and video runtime. It is a *shit ton* more money than Charlie makes, and yet he’s able to fairly pay his many employees with zero issue. It is not that Watcher *needs* this money. It’s that they *want* more money.
Also, no, people don’t have another six dollars for a steaming service. In *top* of like every other streaming service people have, and the fact Watchers audience is mostly teens and college students, no, they cannot afford it. Insanely disrespectful and classist thing to say.
Again, they are getting *far more* than enough money. On top of the fact they have a Patreon with a shit tom of subscribers, pretty pricey merch, live shows, and millions of views per video. We have BEEN paying them fairly for their content.
I guess I’m having a hard time understanding what’s wrong with wanting more money? Do you not want more money? Are you willing to work at your job for free? Why aren’t you working at your job for free? It seems like a lot of people want money because they’re complaining about not being able to afford the $6 it costs. Do you think Charlie started that business out of the goodness of his heart? No. He wanted more money.
For teens and college students, that’s just an unfortunate part of being at that point in life. If I couldn’t afford to go to the movies, I didn’t. If I couldn’t afford the money to eat out, I didn’t. I mean honestly if I couldn’t afford to eat, I didn’t.
You don’t think we’ve been spoiled as a TH-camr audience to expect everything to be given to us for free?
@@petcopaulThey are not working for free. You are not understanding this insanely simple fact.
Are they not working for free for those who watch and don’t pay?
@@petcopaulNo. They are not. Ad revenue, again, is giving them *minimum* 15K for a single advertisement. They get on average 5K per million views.
5k per million is not enough to support 25 people living in LA. Their total view count for their channel is 418m views, which, after giving 25 employees 75k per year (which is 35k below the average a single person needs to live there) they’re left with $215k, which again, is not enough to support 3 people living in LA with families.
Finallyyyy I feel like theyre getting dogpiled for such a minor mistake that didn't even hurt anyone.
Hahahaha no. Have in mind that they also wanted to still operate the Patreon.
honestly this drama was so stupid to me. just subscribe or dont lmao
I personally just feel like everyone is taking this too seriously and blowing it out of proportion like they are evil guys when they just made a dumb business mistake. People are so starved for TH-cam drama they had to jump on someone. Like there is no reason why there is 23 videos about this situation.
I agree. 100%
@@petcopaul wow I’m surprised you don’t have more subs. Subbed
@@Gabriellaella23 wow thanks!!
i would very gladly subscribe to watcher tv, if only I knew if the price showing up is in usd or aud ;-; like as a fan from australia... i lowkey wanna know if i'm paying the price shown or if the price is secretly higher
You are 100% on the wavelength I am feeling right now !!!
I know right?! I still don’t understand why people are making a big fuss over it haha
@petcopaul I think what makes it so wild is how slighted everyone feels like. . . They aren't greedy for wanting to fund for their projects? I think people forget that while they are the content creators and we're the consumers, they also have a right to make content they want? I saw a lot of comments telling them they like the low budget things better and to sacrifice quality and it just comes off so selfish tbh. They have a crew to think about who I am sure puts more than 80 hours in and the cost of living especially in California just kind of makes it necessary for them to find more funding. Smh people need to lay off, this is such a little thing.
Treating this like the Shane Dawson drama and it's just guys wanting to increase their funding to make better content they can be proud of and we can enjoy 🤣
Yeah I agree 100%. They can do what they want. We’re not entitled to what they should do with their lives 😂
They are worth being paid for their hard work! Agreed!
That’s what I’m saying!!
Advertisers are paying AT MINIMUM 15K for a single ad. They are making bank on top of the patreon, merch, live shows, etc. They don’t need more money. This is greed.
It’s not greed. The money is not going in their pockets. They have 25 employees that they have to compensate reasonably (Id assume cost of living in California is expensive), they have to pay for many things to actually create the videos which you enjoy, they themselves have families to take care of. Would you want to be compensated for the work you have done? I’m assuming your answer would be yes. What they are wanting to create goes beyond what they are able to do at TH-cam. They are limited on this platform. So they are thinking outside the box to provide even more content. We are not entitled to their work. This is their job, this is their hard work. They should be paid for the work they create.
@@ariellegrubThey are not limited. They have been providing free content for years, and advertisers love content like theirs. And again, THEY ARE BEING PAID FAR MORE THAN ENOUGH.
There’s a lot that has to happen to behind the scenes to make just one video. If you do the math, the ad revenue isn’t enough.
I’ve been waiting for someone to make this video 🙌🏼
Thanks! Yeah, it’s weird, as I scroll through TH-cam alllll I’ve seen is people just bashing them :/
Stranger things?
Also a great show!
Watcher is doing far way more different (a very good one) than those content creators that's milking on them on this issue and like comparing themselves to watcher, like 😮💨...
Imma be honest, I’m not 100% sure what you’re saying here but it sounds like you agree? Haha I think that Watcher’s content quality is way higher than other TH-camrs, especially with how many subs that they have
The quality of this content is 🤌🏻🤌🏻✨️
Thanks! That really means a lot