Watched Mr Gibbins on twitch the other day play the Minnesota. He made fun of the 40 sec reload by reading The Silmarillion to the audience between volleys. It was hilarious.
I can only hope if PointyHairedJedi plays it, that we'll see a return of the Stonway Gazette readings he use to do when watching the old 13kph T95 replays.
- confederate triggered halsey instead of kracken - its not because its a test ship but its a bug that doesnt show achievements in replays *shotgun loading in the background* ehh, right, double shifts for the rest of the year? Jolly good sir!
CVs : running in circles at the back of the map. DDs : running in circles in the cap. Planes : flying in circles over the smoke screen. Minnesota : BECOME THE CIRCLE
I'm sure WG will soon rectify that with the introduction of the Novgorod, give it a speed of 32kts add on some 20" guns and all over 500mm armor plating and put it at tier 8 since it's slow and vulnerable to he spam.
@@bohba13 yup but they were monitors not destroyers or anything the like. also they are not in the game. and unless im very mistaken had a slight ellipsis shape
Actualy Jingles: 1 The captain skill is not for kraken is for conf. 2 He can earn medals, otherwise the skill wouldn't have worked, this is just a replay bug that dosen't shoe you the medals, but you can see them in chat.
a bit about the Tillman designs (according to drachinifel at least): he didn't like to give the USN much money (as did the entire congress) and since they came every year with a bigger ship he just asked the design team to build the biggest (and best) ship possible. The only restriction being of course that they still can cross the panama-canal (beam restriction). The idea was that after building those ships nothing needed to be done since they already had the best ships (not realizing of course that everybody else would build just the same and even bigger ships than them).
@@E350tb To be fair, we tend to forget that the US Federal Government back then didn't have near complete power to tax, so building a fleet that alone cost more per year than the US government used to spend on everything a few decades earlier was worrisome to many. Tillman and people like him, for all their kookiness, were making an honest attempt to give the US a powerful enough navy without bankrupting the Federal Government doing it. They weren't wrong either, because despite the US economy booming during the 1920s, having no great war debt to service, and no great expansion of the US government to pay for, the Federal government was still bankrupting itself paying for the US Navy, and so was as desperate for the naval limitation treaties as the British.
@@genericpersonx333 yep, they had to pass a Constitutional Amendment to allow the income tax before passing Prohibition, because the US government made almost all it's tax income from excise taxes on alcohol. Really.
@@genericpersonx333 Till man died in 1918. So I don;t know what the economy booming in the 20s has to do with the US Navy. Simply put, the guy( Tillman) didn't want to spend a lot of money on the Navy...
No no no, those special sounds are in reserve for USS Wisconsin! These guns shoot hot dish, and the engines are forever doing the midwest special slow goodbye.
Kansas and Minnesota are not Tillman designs, they are the 1923 South Dakota class and modernised South Dakota class respectively. Vermont is a modified Tillman-IV sans one turret.
@@WielkaKasza Minnesota needs the buff to 50 calibre especially with all the power creep battleships coming, the Kansas at tier 8 can stay with 45 it's firepower is already too much (I weep for tier 6 cruiser players who get in a game with several enemy Kansas's). Hizen? is getting twelve 16inch guns and there are rumours of Russia and the UK lines getting their four quad 16inch gun designs in the future.
@@Ushio01 Kansas is specifically in need a buff. She currently stands as the worse T7 battleship. God forbid comparing her to actual like-tier vessels.
@@Ushio01 I really feel like they put two shit ships out there just so people have to grind through them to get to the ACTUAL star of the line with the decent 12 457mm guns...really feels like a 'buy free XP to skip to the tier 10' grab sort of thing.
@@luketfer Lets be honest a lot of tier 8's and 9's have the FXP to get through the torture feel to them. Izumo before it's buffs. Ibuki (it's just a Myoko that sees tier 10's!) Baltimore when it was tier 9. Seattle (god it sucks it's like a Neptune but nerfed to death with no smoke, torps or secondaries/AA!) Admiral Hipper and Roon!
@@Ushio01 I actually enjoyed the Admiral Hipper when I was playing through it...the Roon, however, I will agree with, it's odd turret layout makes it a very wonky ship to use if you're not kiting...and kiting is about the only thing it's good at. I would argue that the Lion should be included in that list after they raised its citadel. However I often find that the tier 8s are usually solid ships but the tier 9s are FXP bait since they're usually, at best, minor upgrades to the tier 8s and at worst basically sidegrades.
@@luketfer I just listed a few examples the Monarch and Lion would be others I would include the Iowa (my opinion it's too long and suffers in agility compared to the NC and especially the premium Mass and Alabama) at least the Georgia has 18inch guns rather than the boring 9 16inch of so many ships.
My man Halsey perks when scoring a Confederate, not Kraken. Which is why he's so great on Des Memes. Very easy to take 20% HP from the various lolibotes and light cruisers early in the game. :)
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaactualy jingles, that cruiser there 10:13 was an Azuma not an Alaska. They're quite different Jingles. Yes sir! I'm ready for my quadruple shifts in the salt mines!
Really he would not be able to do that to an Alaska, but you don't watch videos from Jingles for the technical accuracy. You watch them for the commentary.
One more thing about the Kansas, there’s a big square block of ship on each side, right at the thickest part of the ship. Apparently that’s where they’ve stuck the engine, because I’ve had mine knocked out on multiple occasions by aircraft torpedoes striking there.
@@Almond19912 i would expect similar aa to the colorado in effectiveness (77-90 area), but they might update them so the new broken german carriers don’t absolutely annihilate them constantly. The ships are already about as historical as me ruling the senate in starwars.
They have. Also if you look closely at the kansas on this side you'll see the funnel and engine are bassically exposed without armor. Its a design that wouldve never been possible.
@@reaperking2121 The whole line is Wargaming forcing blueprinted ships, wrapping them in object 279e level fake sauce, adding Colorado toppings, and them putting them into an arbitrary mold oven. The only reason this man did well is people don't quite know where to shoot the ship yet, that and the guns behaved.
Jingles: “with turning circles measured in Post Codes rather than hundreds of metres” Arizona, New Mexico and Colorado: 640m North Carolina: 760m Iowa: 920m Montana: 950m Jingles I have no idea what you’re on about
The history and research you put into this video was amazing. I'm always amazed at how much you know about all Naval history and bring to these videos. Well done Jingles!
The problem with the Minnesota is that it doesn't have 'good guns'. Sure it's got 12 of them but she uses the same shells as the Kansas...which are worse than the Colorado's due to terrible krupp values (more shatters) and very meh AP pen. Notice how in this match the Minne was top tier, largely left alone in the case of HE spam and there wasn't a CV. But the Minne in a tier 10 match and she suffers more so than any other ship.
Oh Jingles, never change. A) That's an Azuma, not an Alaska. Alaska might have bounced that salvo. B) He got all the achievements, you can see it in chat. They just aren't displayed, a known replay bug. Minuette isn't a test ship, she's (currently) a special ship, since you need to basically whale her, or be very lucky.
@Magni56 Sadly whilst they're turning circle is decent, they loss the speed retention with only the premiums (like the Arizona etc.) that came out before the change retaining it.
.....The hell is going on in the chat? And anyone thinks that WOWS just started down the WOT line of development, introducing ships that were only concepts at the best of times?
*looks at Russian tech tree and Russian premiums* What do you mean "just started"? How much worse could WOT possibly be that you think WoWs "just started" doing that?
@@tobiasreinhold7642 Well, I havent played either in years, thank the gods. But last i checked, WoT was pulling entire tech trees on the basis of "This is what they wo9uld have made...probably" WOWS at least has schematics, no?
And to think of all the British navy classes they could impose. Personally i would make tier 11 a new generaton of battleship: the Pre-Drednaughts, and contemporary cruisers, Run up to tier 15 then introduce Wind mechanics and Ships of the Line at tier 16 (I would actually run backwards in time: so you can have ships of the line at 16 scrapping with early Ironsiders and HMS Warrior from tiers 15)
ayyy i'm actually from minnesota, so when i saw this ship being added i was pretty hyped. seems like it's pretty good, so i'm glad we've got some good reprisentation
They are. There were follow on designs from the South Dakota right up until Washington, these seem to be them in an imagined modern form, even the tier ten has at least as much in common with them and the considerations for 18" guns as with the Tillmans.
Minnesota and Kansas are the 1920s South Dakotas. They were supposed to follow the Colorados. 12 16-inch guns. Heavy armor. 23 kts speed. I don’t have a clue what Vermont is. Florida is what North Carolina would have been with the original quad 14-inch guns.
Because they ARE the South Dakotas. Kansas is South Dakota as designed, and Minnesota is South Dakota that's recieved an egregious refit much like the other American "Standard type" battleships. Jingles really sounded quite uninformed throughout the entire... *half* of the video where he talks about the designs.
@@trancybrat98 The guns are not historically the 1920s South Dakota's guns. They should be the 16/50 Mark 2/Mark 3 guns. Kansas and Minnesota use Colorado's guns in triple turrets and a made up Mark 7 mount.
Jingles I reset my US BBs when I first heard about these ships, and actually I had quite a lot of fun replaying the "Doom Slugs". I have played since CBT so I remember how difficult they could be, the Colorado especially. I was genuinely surprised at how I felt after replaying them. For example I used to remember the Wyoming fondly, and hated the New York but this reversed. The New Mexico is still a very capable ship. I even got caught up between two DD torp spreads in the NM but survived due to the ship's maneuverability and strength of the torp protection. I thought I was dead, and when I came out still alive my div mates exclaimed "How are you not dead!?" to which my response was "I dunno, didn't feel like it". Finally I remember the original Colorado, and it's why I got Yamato before Montana but with the buffs it has received I found that not only can those 8 16in guns lay down some hurt, the slow speed can actually be an advantage. I had one match on Trident in the Colorado where a Gniesenau had been shooting at me the entire game, but missed every salvo because they appeared to be so used to shooting faster BBs as every shot fell in front of me. They even missed a shot at about 7km because of the slow speed. After this the Gneisenau gave up and switched to someone else. On the subject of the Kansas and Minnesota I have this to say: Kansas does not work in its current state for the reasons you specified. Guns are too slow, too inaccurate, and takes too much damage. Only thing you didn't mention was that the way the Kansas' upper structure is layed out, there are a lot of flat edges that can and will catch AP shells, and allow them to do full damage. The Minnesota is a challenge, but since you can mount the reload mod, it can be used to some effect as the reload drops from 40 to 35 sec, and the better accuracy means that you can do significant damage. I don't have the Vermont, but I was almost deleted by one in my Montana so... do sort of want. Also I was born in Burlington, VT so I was a sucker for that ship when it was announced.
Friendly reminder that Kansas has the same DPM as a colorado, and objectively worse when you factor in accuracy and penetration. Kansas is worse then most T7 battleships.
The Kansas is actually worse than a some tier SIX ships. Warspite and West Virginia '41 both are actually better ships despite having 4 less guns. Both have better AP pen than the Kansas and only about 14k less DPM than her...despite being 2 tiers lower and 4 guns less...
The accuracy implies it's a short range delete machine. The armour implies it is a short range deleted machine. The engine implies it never wanted to go fighting anyway. The playerbase suggests More guns More power... unless you know what you are doing.
@The Mighty Jingles You should have named this one "Fist of the North Star State"! ...I'll go back the salt mines now. Edit: Kansas and Minnesota are nominally the South Dakota class (of 1921), which were historically cancelled as part of the Washington Treaty. Kansas being mostly "as built", and Minnesota being a hypothetical '45 retrofit. Vermont though, is definitely a "Tillman"-inspired design.
Nice vid Jingles and well played Maukadragon! I'm interested in the Kansas, will be sure to get her alongside the NC when I get up there someday. (still working on New York)
Having lived in Minneapolis, Minnesota for fifty-five years, I would like to take this special opportunity to thank you, Mr. Jingles, for offering us a game with the USS Minnesota front and center.
I trudged through the Kansas to get enough experience to grab the Minnesota when it was finally available. I had some good moments one shotting broadside ships with her. I am a fan of lots of guns.
I enjoy New Mexico on WoWS: Blitz. Yeah, I know, mobile bad, I don't care, I really enjoy it. It's like playing the Kansas, Minnesota, and Vermont, but at the Tiers they should be
me as a WoT player.. remember the old T95 13km/h? I loved it! because if people barely play it and you do not mind the slow speed, not a lot of people are knowing the weak spots! but then this is WoWS and IFHE and many more are a thing.
Jingles I think the Kansas at tier 8 is technically a 1920 South Dakota class, which was cancelled due to the Washington naval treaty. It was technically an enlarged standard battleship with a mild speed buff to 23 knots. Its main battery had the 4x3 turret layout of many of the 14" gun armed standard BBs but used the 16" guns from the Colorado...
Jingles, you're missing the fact that the MN's rudder shift is godly though. So the WASD hax is very strong with this ship. Notser was playing this the other day and pretty much sailed it like a Giant, slow, BC. Big guns, big slow ship, very maneuverable AND the turret traverse can still keep up (beat) the rudder shift in this thing.
I bet these things do really well in the right hands. Front-loaded damage is extremely valuable, especially later in a game when people are on lower hitpoints. If you husband your HP early on then it doesn't matter if something like a Scharnhorst gets to fire three times in the time you fire twice, if you can delete him with your first salvo.
I have absolute trust in Jingles' evaluation of these ships. After all, he accurately predicted the the fate of that Alaska as well as the position of the unspotted Grozovoi. He's gotta know what he's talking about. >:3
(17:00) "Yes Alaska.....turn that way" ..🤔....Oohh, Jingles, Jingles, Jingles.... 😂🤣 (It is not like the type of the boat was right above it, you were probably wearing those new sunnies)
Acktually Jingles, the Kansas in based on the canceled 1920 South Dakota class, which were expected to only make 23 knots as well as having the same guns. Hi ho, hi ho, off to the salt mines I go!
tillman designed the ships because he couldnt stand the navy complaining about how small the battleships were. So he went mad in their design to try and shut them up
Congress: 'Every year you ask congress for new and bigger and more expensive battleships, Every year you bring us something big and too expensive and settle for something smaller. Forget the cost. Design us our Biggest and Best battleship: Give that to us and get out of our hair.' Tillman: 'Uh, sure. I believe the design project is possible...' Tillman: Does the Math and calculates the total mass available for Turret/gun, Engine and Size to Speed calculations. Tillman: 'Right so these are just prototype concepts for what we could do if you permitted us the funds to build those 'biggest ships' you asked for' Congress: " " "...... How much?" Tillman: 'first you'd need to allocate at least this much money to build the shipyards big enough to hold these designs, this one has ALL the guns that we can currently build, this one goes as fast as possible with current gun designs and more firepower than we were originally asking for, this one has bigger guns and more of them than the design we asked for, and THAT one.... That one has guns of 24 inch design. If you want to build that one you better set aside at least this much to get started on the gun design. Oh and the 24 inch design can outrun the destroyer design we asked you for last year.' Congress: ".... lets just build the battleships you originally asked for then" A few years later: Congress: "So when are you going to start asking for those ships Tillman drew up then aye?" Navy: 'Well, (checks his notes about the GDP of the last 5 years) you can't afford to pay for them, nor could we support them, they'd fit through the canal well enough. Tell you what: If you set aside this much money to improve our docking facilities in the following 12 ports, we can get started on the upgrades to make handling those ships possible in a few years, then we can place an order to replace every battleship in the fleet with a few of those things, and we can talk again.'
@@Bipedquiped hmmm. The Tillman Design would look like a Graf Zeppelin. With More turrets, and some less armor and more speed but less turning capacity. At least you would be able to accellerate/slow down quickly to evade torpedos
Got the Kansas from the missions, played 8 battles, lost all, de-eqipped her and put the captain in the Colorado. She can sit there with her golden eagle cammo and the next time I play her will be when she's so rusty she's at the bottom of the port in some Halloween submarine theme mode a few years from now
Kansas is based on the canceled South Dakota of the 1920 BB49, Minnesota possibly was part of the same design as the Kansas meanwhile the Vermont is the Tillman 4-2 but refitted in a WW2 setting thanks to Wargaming by eliminating the middle turret for a rear superstructure.
I realize this is an old video, but I thought I'd comment anyway. The first two of the trio is South Dakota (I) class while the biggest (Vermont) is more like a true modified Tillman. I've used all three effectively. In fact, the first ship I sank with the Kansas was a Montana. Yes, they're slow. Kansas and Minnesota both lack in accuracy as well as speed. But a player can adapt to that. The ones willing to adapt are the ones who are most successful. That being said, I have all three ships and no regrets. It's all on your playing style and whether you're willing to adapt - as with any other class of ship. I have great respect for Rear Admiral Jingles. I love his commentaries. But I would guess that his playing style is different than mine. Good luck and good hunting all!
as someone who is currently grinding through the colorado, i can say that even though its not a bad ship im not planing on going for these new heavies.
This is a strong example of "Jingles getting ship names wrong" today. Azumi became Alaska, Ognevoi became Grozevoi, and I'm sure at least three dozen others
As a relatively new player and someone who doesn’t have time to devote to the game exclusively, I find the slow American ships a good way to keep myself from overextending and getting myself shot to hell. As I am getting better at the game I’m not making those mistakes and I’m playing the better ships.
Surprisingly enough I ve had a couple of good battles with Kansas. Played to get some damage mission done for rewards and haven't played it since. It is to be sold as soon as it is possible to be
On firepower as a selling point: One more reason the Kansas is not good is that, due to lower damage per shell, its alpha strike is actually equal to the North Carolina's, while its reload time is considerably longer. Not sure how that is with the Minnesota.
Me being from Minnesota, when I heard that they were adding the USS Minnesota to the game, I spent a lot of time grinding the US battleship line, to say the least.
If memory serves, this game's USS Kansas is based on one of many various prototype designs the naval construction bureau studied in the Inter war years, whereas USS Minnesota is actually a member the 1920 South Dakota Class cancelled by the Washington Naval treaty of 1921. I believe USS Vermont is potentially a Tillman but also, take into account how World of Warships went about 'modernising' these never built designs to reflect how they may have developed in the interwar years or more specifically post Pearl Harbor. All ships in this 'What If' Heavy BB line all look like the USS California rebuild ala Pearl Harbor. So, accounting for this, with the added torpedo blisters and reworked armor layout, it isn't a surprise to me the ships are slower than their base designs suppose the ships could reach. Just my thoughts as a amateur naval historian there. Overall though great expose video on this never built beauty of US engineering.
Nothing wrong with slow battleships. In fact it makes the destroyer players' tears that much sweeter when you ram them. I ran over two of them (and sunk them both) with my Texas in one game. Took no damage from the first collision, barely any from the second but those salty tears that flowed were so sweet.
This is a purely fictional battleship, the Last BB named for Minnesota was BB-22 a Connecticut-class pre-dreadnought class battleship that was on the verge of retirement at the start of WWI, she was so old that she sailed as part of the Great White Fleet in cerium navigating the world.
Yep, you can do well in them but notice one thing. This BB player pushed the entire match.. he didn't hang back, he didn't play "safe" he went for it with every knot of speed he could squeeze out. THATS how BB's should be played!.
Jingles I play my lower level battlships as often as my highest ( level nine so far ) , in fact my favorite battleship is still USS Arkansas beta and I play it every time I come onto the game.
I have been getting all the US Battleships, but I have to say the St. Louis Class is where I enjoy playing the game. I would love to see the game upgrade it to tier 4
Actually, Jingles the Kansas seems to be based on what a modernized South Dakota-class battleship of 1920 (not to be confused with the 1939 South Dakota-class) would look like. The 1920 South Dakotas were laid down in 1920 but scrapped because of the Washington Naval Treaty of 1922. Presumably the Minnesota and Vermont are evolutions of this design. Her boilers were used to modernize other battleships. So they're not Tillman Battleships, more like Standard II battleships.
Well, in fact the Kansas is based on the 1920s South Dakota design and the Minnesota is what the 1920s South Dakota design would have looked like if it would have got the same WW2 upgrades the other older dreadnought type BBs had got after they were raised and repaired from the Pearl Harbor attack. The Vermont is based on the Tillman designs however with a more realistic approach considering its speed.
actually, the Kansas and Minnesota are South Dakota (1920's) class battleships had they been finished and modernized. The Vermont appears to be Tillman IV-2 with turret 3 missing
Watched Mr Gibbins on twitch the other day play the Minnesota. He made fun of the 40 sec reload by reading The Silmarillion to the audience between volleys. It was hilarious.
Wait what? That is a genius idea. That is also quite sad
I can only hope if PointyHairedJedi plays it, that we'll see a return of the Stonway Gazette readings he use to do when watching the old 13kph T95 replays.
Instead of taking a lunchbreak, Flamu played Minnesota. He had no difficulty eating lunch and playing that ship at the same time.
Did he get as far as the Children of Hurin?
Instablaster.
In this video:
- Azuma was called Alaska
- Ognevoi was called Grozovoi
Not even 4k monitor is helping.
just technical glitches I guess
- confederate triggered halsey instead of kracken
- its not because its a test ship but its a bug that doesnt show achievements in replays
*shotgun loading in the background*
ehh, right, double shifts for the rest of the year? Jolly good sir!
Par for the course, I would say.
Off to the salt mines we go!
Ah USS Minnesota, the closest approximation of a circle in WoWS
CVs : running in circles at the back of the map.
DDs : running in circles in the cap.
Planes : flying in circles over the smoke screen.
Minnesota : BECOME THE CIRCLE
I thought incest was a southern thing?
I'm sure WG will soon rectify that with the introduction of the Novgorod, give it a speed of 32kts add on some 20" guns and all over 500mm armor plating and put it at tier 8 since it's slow and vulnerable to he spam.
The Russians made literal circular ships.
@@bohba13 yup but they were monitors not destroyers or anything the like. also they are not in the game.
and unless im very mistaken had a slight ellipsis shape
Actualy Jingles:
1 The captain skill is not for kraken is for conf.
2 He can earn medals, otherwise the skill wouldn't have worked, this is just a replay bug that dosen't shoe you the medals, but you can see them in chat.
3. The grozovoi is an ognovoi ;-)
@@samuelodonnell2399 4 The Alaska is an Azuma :))
@@dantunsoiu7177 5. You're all about to eat 12 gauge and/or .44 Magnum revenge
Never a video without Jingles being Jingles. It keeps us focused and that's why we love watching him.
either he does this on purpose now or he is getting senile
Hmmm when the USS Minnesota is on fire, you could say that things are “mostly peaceful” on deck 🤣🤣🤣
As someone from Minnesota, I can confirm that
@@carterk5060 That's different.
lolololololol
a bit about the Tillman designs (according to drachinifel at least):
he didn't like to give the USN much money (as did the entire congress) and since they came every year with a bigger ship he just asked the design team to build the biggest (and best) ship possible. The only restriction being of course that they still can cross the panama-canal (beam restriction). The idea was that after building those ships nothing needed to be done since they already had the best ships (not realizing of course that everybody else would build just the same and even bigger ships than them).
From my limited research of him, I’m not sure Pitchfork Ben was the sharpest tool in the shed.
@@E350tb To be fair, we tend to forget that the US Federal Government back then didn't have near complete power to tax, so building a fleet that alone cost more per year than the US government used to spend on everything a few decades earlier was worrisome to many. Tillman and people like him, for all their kookiness, were making an honest attempt to give the US a powerful enough navy without bankrupting the Federal Government doing it. They weren't wrong either, because despite the US economy booming during the 1920s, having no great war debt to service, and no great expansion of the US government to pay for, the Federal government was still bankrupting itself paying for the US Navy, and so was as desperate for the naval limitation treaties as the British.
@@genericpersonx333 yep, they had to pass a Constitutional Amendment to allow the income tax before passing Prohibition, because the US government made almost all it's tax income from excise taxes on alcohol. Really.
We should be glad WoWs didn't go for true Tillman designs.
The Graf Zepplin would be dwarfed by those massively overbuilt battlecruisers.
@@genericpersonx333 Till man died in 1918. So I don;t know what the economy booming in the 20s has to do with the US Navy. Simply put, the guy( Tillman) didn't want to spend a lot of money on the Navy...
The Horn: "Oh hey'there bud"
The guns when firing: "OPE!"
And the engines are just fast enough to "sneak right past ya'."
Ah! Another Midwesterner, hows it going bud?
No no no, those special sounds are in reserve for USS Wisconsin! These guns shoot hot dish, and the engines are forever doing the midwest special slow goodbye.
As someone who recently moved to MN, that made me laugh a lot
MO has a lot of that talk, just not city wise.
Also, would you pass the ranch? :)
@@sparda169leon sure thing bud! What kind of pop you want?
Kansas and Minnesota are not Tillman designs, they are the 1923 South Dakota class and modernised South Dakota class respectively. Vermont is a modified Tillman-IV sans one turret.
The South Dakotas were part of the 1916 Building Program, and were cancelled as a result of the 1921 Washington Treaty.
Except WeeGee gave South Dakota's 45-caliber guns rather than the 50-caliber that were ment for them.
Image 16"/50 Mk 2/3(which have a bigger chamber valume than Mk 7) firing Mk 8 AP......
@@WielkaKasza Minnesota needs the buff to 50 calibre especially with all the power creep battleships coming, the Kansas at tier 8 can stay with 45 it's firepower is already too much (I weep for tier 6 cruiser players who get in a game with several enemy Kansas's). Hizen? is getting twelve 16inch guns and there are rumours of Russia and the UK lines getting their four quad 16inch gun designs in the future.
@@Ushio01 Kansas is specifically in need a buff. She currently stands as the worse T7 battleship. God forbid comparing her to actual like-tier vessels.
Oh I hate going slow in battleships, the american grind was painful. Tillman ships are hillarious though.
Also that chat is hilariously stupid.
Vermont is really going to be popular with 12 Ohio guns not the in-between Colorado and North Carolina guns of the Kansas and Minnesota.
@@Ushio01 I really feel like they put two shit ships out there just so people have to grind through them to get to the ACTUAL star of the line with the decent 12 457mm guns...really feels like a 'buy free XP to skip to the tier 10' grab sort of thing.
@@luketfer Lets be honest a lot of tier 8's and 9's have the FXP to get through the torture feel to them.
Izumo before it's buffs.
Ibuki (it's just a Myoko that sees tier 10's!) Baltimore when it was tier 9.
Seattle (god it sucks it's like a Neptune but nerfed to death with no smoke, torps or secondaries/AA!)
Admiral Hipper and Roon!
@@Ushio01 I actually enjoyed the Admiral Hipper when I was playing through it...the Roon, however, I will agree with, it's odd turret layout makes it a very wonky ship to use if you're not kiting...and kiting is about the only thing it's good at.
I would argue that the Lion should be included in that list after they raised its citadel.
However I often find that the tier 8s are usually solid ships but the tier 9s are FXP bait since they're usually, at best, minor upgrades to the tier 8s and at worst basically sidegrades.
@@luketfer I just listed a few examples the Monarch and Lion would be others I would include the Iowa (my opinion it's too long and suffers in agility compared to the NC and especially the premium Mass and Alabama) at least the Georgia has 18inch guns rather than the boring 9 16inch of so many ships.
New 4K monitor, new glasses (4 pairs if I remember correctly), and Jingles still manages to f-up the names of the ships. Oh Jingles, you're the best.
At least Azuma and Alaska kinda look like similar words
@@counterfit5 so do Ognevoi and Grozovoi ...
My man Halsey perks when scoring a Confederate, not Kraken. Which is why he's so great on Des Memes. Very easy to take 20% HP from the various lolibotes and light cruisers early in the game. :)
That sounds so broken
@@Xiphactinus Quiet you! 203mm guns firing every 3.5 seconds is a perfectly balanced and fair mechanic.
he's on my Des Moines as well
@@Xiphactinus the whole game is broken balance wise.
@@Xiphactinus If only Des Moines was the most broken thing about the game...
*Minnesota superstructure looking like an apartment complex*
Clevelands and Chapayevs - "I can milk you."
Lewd.
Smolensk: Happy Vodka noises.
I make happy beer noises in my light Brit cruisers, too! Time for an drawn-out round of Darts! :P
"Minnesota superstructure looking like an apartment complex" Clearly you haven;t seen photos of French pre dreadnoughts.
@@comunistubula4424
You mean "When hotels go to war"
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaactualy jingles, that cruiser there 10:13 was an Azuma not an Alaska. They're quite different Jingles.
Yes sir! I'm ready for my quadruple shifts in the salt mines!
That was a jingles moment
Hearing a shotgun cocking in the background?
@@drakko26 more like a 88mm with AP for anal insertion lol
Really he would not be able to do that to an Alaska, but you don't watch videos from Jingles for the technical accuracy. You watch them for the commentary.
I noticed that error to
One more thing about the Kansas, there’s a big square block of ship on each side, right at the thickest part of the ship. Apparently that’s where they’ve stuck the engine, because I’ve had mine knocked out on multiple occasions by aircraft torpedoes striking there.
Was going to ask as he hasn't mentioned it but Im guessing as WW1 designed ships the AA is god awful?
From playing CV, I've noticed that torp hits to a ship's midsection do tend to knock out the engine fairly regularily.
@@Almond19912 i would expect similar aa to the colorado in effectiveness (77-90 area), but they might update them so the new broken german carriers don’t absolutely annihilate them constantly. The ships are already about as historical as me ruling the senate in starwars.
They have. Also if you look closely at the kansas on this side you'll see the funnel and engine are bassically exposed without armor. Its a design that wouldve never been possible.
@@reaperking2121 The whole line is Wargaming forcing blueprinted ships, wrapping them in object 279e level fake sauce, adding Colorado toppings, and them putting them into an arbitrary mold oven. The only reason this man did well is people don't quite know where to shoot the ship yet, that and the guns behaved.
Jingles: “with turning circles measured in Post Codes rather than hundreds of metres”
Arizona, New Mexico and Colorado: 640m
North Carolina: 760m
Iowa: 920m
Montana: 950m
Jingles I have no idea what you’re on about
I'm pretty sure neither does he.
In his head it all made sense.
ive won turn fights with the colorado in ranked..idk why people hate on her so much.
@@sharpy3453 Mostly due to her speed
@@sharpy3453 Its slow as dicks. I would also say that at its tier, the NM is fine. I did hate the Colorado though.
The history and research you put into this video was amazing. I'm always amazed at how much you know about all Naval history and bring to these videos. Well done Jingles!
The T8 and T9 ships are WW1 South Dakota designs. The T10 is one of the less powerful Tillman ship though
Last time I was this early the us congress still refused to give the navy money
or to Thrump for his wall lol
They'd only spend it on Thai pretty boys and blow. And the odd Marine. Go Army!
So, what, last week?
Trying to catch up on all your World of Warships videos after a couple years of not watching them and realizing everything that’s great about them!
The kind of historical and playstyle videos I subscribed for all those years ago.
TOG II: big, slow, no armor, good gun
-Jingles: I love it!
Minnesota: Big, slow, no armor, good guns
- Jingles: its shit!
Jingles has always said that the TOG II is shit as well. We love it because is has character.
The problem with the Minnesota is that it's American.
The problem with the Minnesota is that it doesn't have 'good guns'. Sure it's got 12 of them but she uses the same shells as the Kansas...which are worse than the Colorado's due to terrible krupp values (more shatters) and very meh AP pen. Notice how in this match the Minne was top tier, largely left alone in the case of HE spam and there wasn't a CV. But the Minne in a tier 10 match and she suffers more so than any other ship.
TOG is a herd animal who loves being in platoons.
10:11 Yes Jingles, everyone remembers the IJN Alaska
It was one of their secret super cruisers
lol......
Oh Jingles, never change.
A) That's an Azuma, not an Alaska. Alaska might have bounced that salvo.
B) He got all the achievements, you can see it in chat. They just aren't displayed, a known replay bug. Minuette isn't a test ship, she's (currently) a special ship, since you need to basically whale her, or be very lucky.
I guess more than 4k would be needed to avoid those mistakes :P
And ognevoi called grozovoi
@Magni56 Sadly whilst they're turning circle is decent, they loss the speed retention with only the premiums (like the Arizona etc.) that came out before the change retaining it.
Hello from Minnesota! Love your content Jingles.
.....The hell is going on in the chat?
And anyone thinks that WOWS just started down the WOT line of development, introducing ships that were only concepts at the best of times?
Well South Dakota was 38.5% complete, so T8 and T9 are more real than most russian BB's, but I know where are you comming from.
*looks at Russian tech tree and Russian premiums* What do you mean "just started"? How much worse could WOT possibly be that you think WoWs "just started" doing that?
@@tobiasreinhold7642 Well, I havent played either in years, thank the gods. But last i checked, WoT was pulling entire tech trees on the basis of "This is what they wo9uld have made...probably"
WOWS at least has schematics, no?
And to think of all the British navy classes they could impose.
Personally i would make tier 11 a new generaton of battleship: the Pre-Drednaughts, and contemporary cruisers, Run up to tier 15 then introduce Wind mechanics and Ships of the Line at tier 16 (I would actually run backwards in time: so you can have ships of the line at 16 scrapping with early Ironsiders and HMS Warrior from tiers 15)
what else are they gona do just not make new content? im pretty sure they covered most of the ships actually built.
10:12 "Yes Alaska, that's right, you turn that way"
It's an Azuma... Never change Jingles, never change.
10:11
Jingles: Yes Alaska
Azuma: Whatt?🙁
Jingles never change.
ayyy i'm actually from minnesota, so when i saw this ship being added i was pretty hyped. seems like it's pretty good, so i'm glad we've got some good reprisentation
Tier 10 is a Tillman offspring, the other two look more like South Dakota class ships two me, especially Kansas.
They are. There were follow on designs from the South Dakota right up until Washington, these seem to be them in an imagined modern form, even the tier ten has at least as much in common with them and the considerations for 18" guns as with the Tillmans.
Minnesota and Kansas are the 1920s South Dakotas. They were supposed to follow the Colorados. 12 16-inch guns. Heavy armor. 23 kts speed. I don’t have a clue what Vermont is. Florida is what North Carolina would have been with the original quad 14-inch guns.
Because they ARE the South Dakotas. Kansas is South Dakota as designed, and Minnesota is South Dakota that's recieved an egregious refit much like the other American "Standard type" battleships.
Jingles really sounded quite uninformed throughout the entire... *half* of the video where he talks about the designs.
@@trancybrat98 The guns are not historically the 1920s South Dakota's guns. They should be the 16/50 Mark 2/Mark 3 guns. Kansas and Minnesota use Colorado's guns in triple turrets and a made up Mark 7 mount.
@@hackerjohnt Vermont is a modified Tillman design (Tillman 1)
Jingles I reset my US BBs when I first heard about these ships, and actually I had quite a lot of fun replaying the "Doom Slugs". I have played since CBT so I remember how difficult they could be, the Colorado especially. I was genuinely surprised at how I felt after replaying them. For example I used to remember the Wyoming fondly, and hated the New York but this reversed. The New Mexico is still a very capable ship. I even got caught up between two DD torp spreads in the NM but survived due to the ship's maneuverability and strength of the torp protection. I thought I was dead, and when I came out still alive my div mates exclaimed "How are you not dead!?" to which my response was "I dunno, didn't feel like it". Finally I remember the original Colorado, and it's why I got Yamato before Montana but with the buffs it has received I found that not only can those 8 16in guns lay down some hurt, the slow speed can actually be an advantage. I had one match on Trident in the Colorado where a Gniesenau had been shooting at me the entire game, but missed every salvo because they appeared to be so used to shooting faster BBs as every shot fell in front of me. They even missed a shot at about 7km because of the slow speed. After this the Gneisenau gave up and switched to someone else.
On the subject of the Kansas and Minnesota I have this to say: Kansas does not work in its current state for the reasons you specified. Guns are too slow, too inaccurate, and takes too much damage. Only thing you didn't mention was that the way the Kansas' upper structure is layed out, there are a lot of flat edges that can and will catch AP shells, and allow them to do full damage. The Minnesota is a challenge, but since you can mount the reload mod, it can be used to some effect as the reload drops from 40 to 35 sec, and the better accuracy means that you can do significant damage. I don't have the Vermont, but I was almost deleted by one in my Montana so... do sort of want. Also I was born in Burlington, VT so I was a sucker for that ship when it was announced.
Friendly reminder that Kansas has the same DPM as a colorado, and objectively worse when you factor in accuracy and penetration.
Kansas is worse then most T7 battleships.
The Kansas is actually worse than a some tier SIX ships. Warspite and West Virginia '41 both are actually better ships despite having 4 less guns. Both have better AP pen than the Kansas and only about 14k less DPM than her...despite being 2 tiers lower and 4 guns less...
The accuracy implies it's a short range delete machine.
The armour implies it is a short range deleted machine.
The engine implies it never wanted to go fighting anyway.
The playerbase suggests More guns More power... unless you know what you are doing.
@The Mighty Jingles You should have named this one "Fist of the North Star State"!
...I'll go back the salt mines now.
Edit: Kansas and Minnesota are nominally the South Dakota class (of 1921), which were historically cancelled as part of the Washington Treaty. Kansas being mostly "as built", and Minnesota being a hypothetical '45 retrofit. Vermont though, is definitely a "Tillman"-inspired design.
Nice vid Jingles and well played Maukadragon! I'm interested in the Kansas, will be sure to get her alongside the NC when I get up there someday. (still working on New York)
Having lived in Minneapolis, Minnesota for fifty-five years, I would like to take this special opportunity to thank you, Mr. Jingles, for offering us a game with the USS Minnesota front and center.
"Yes, Alaska, you turn that way"... it's Azuma Jingles )))
Lot's of actually Jingles moments in this one boys and girls
2:15
“What possessed WG to think...”
The only question they considered when deciding to present these is “will people pay real money for them?”
What an interesting conversation at the beginning for chat.
I trudged through the Kansas to get enough experience to grab the Minnesota when it was finally available. I had some good moments one shotting broadside ships with her. I am a fan of lots of guns.
I enjoy New Mexico on WoWS: Blitz. Yeah, I know, mobile bad, I don't care, I really enjoy it. It's like playing the Kansas, Minnesota, and Vermont, but at the Tiers they should be
8:48 5 hits 4 OPs 1 penetration bitches about poor penetration, never change jingles
Less than 200, this old truck driver caught the gnome early. Love it!
me as a WoT player.. remember the old T95 13km/h? I loved it! because if people barely play it and you do not mind the slow speed, not a lot of people are knowing the weak spots!
but then this is WoWS and IFHE and many more are a thing.
Love my NM and Colo. only found out later though.
Jingles I think the Kansas at tier 8 is technically a 1920 South Dakota class, which was cancelled due to the Washington naval treaty. It was technically an enlarged standard battleship with a mild speed buff to 23 knots. Its main battery had the 4x3 turret layout of many of the 14" gun armed standard BBs but used the 16" guns from the Colorado...
I enjoy playing Texas and Arizona so might go up this line
I as well, hopefully Kansas will get some buffs in the future.
Jingles: new Glasses (several in fact), new High-Resolution Monitor and he still identifies an Azuma as an Alaska... please never change, old Gnome!
He reported that guy in chat for the gangbang comment lol
Yep maybe he was... butt hurt?
He wasn’t down for busting some cheeks.
No sense of humor but still a clown enough to own a Minnesota with that permanent event camo.
@@thepavl certified pun of the day
@@daveg7970 or maybe they're still thinking this is the 19th century.
"I couldn't go back to the horribly slow speed of . . . . . oh look . . . . a TOG II !"
Jingles, you're missing the fact that the MN's rudder shift is godly though.
So the WASD hax is very strong with this ship.
Notser was playing this the other day and pretty much sailed it like a Giant, slow, BC. Big guns, big slow ship, very maneuverable AND the turret traverse can still keep up (beat) the rudder shift in this thing.
"You can like things that are objectively *bad.* " - Like the Tog~?
I bet these things do really well in the right hands. Front-loaded damage is extremely valuable, especially later in a game when people are on lower hitpoints. If you husband your HP early on then it doesn't matter if something like a Scharnhorst gets to fire three times in the time you fire twice, if you can delete him with your first salvo.
Uncle Jingles, I like that ship. I lived in Minnesota for the first 20 years of my life
This one was Jinglesy AF. We sunk an enemy fighter!
10:12 "yes, Alaska..."; good old Jingles :-)
Things that are famous in Minnesota: Mayo Clinic
Doctors there are amazing. Helped remove a tumor from my brain a year ago tomorrow
True but you missed one thing: The Mall Of America.
@@chiefcaptaincole9889 read the description
I have absolute trust in Jingles' evaluation of these ships.
After all, he accurately predicted the the fate of that Alaska as well as the position of the unspotted Grozovoi.
He's gotta know what he's talking about.
>:3
My favorite Tillman was the one with 16 inch belt and 15 18inch 50 cal gun and had 25 knots of speed.
Azuma disguised as Alaska, Ognevoy as Grozovoy... Jingles will never change :D
(17:00) "Yes Alaska.....turn that way" ..🤔....Oohh, Jingles, Jingles, Jingles.... 😂🤣 (It is not like the type of the boat was right above it, you were probably wearing those new sunnies)
Ognevoi became Grosovoi and Azuma turned to Alaska.
That's a typical Jingles video. :D
I'll just call it that it's slow because our winters are longer here...but when you want it to pack a punch...it puts all its ufda behind it!
that opening still catches me by surprise
Acktually Jingles, the Kansas in based on the canceled 1920 South Dakota class, which were expected to only make 23 knots as well as having the same guns.
Hi ho, hi ho, off to the salt mines I go!
"Yes Alaska, that's right, you turn that way"
*is aiming at an Azuma*
tillman designed the ships because he couldnt stand the navy complaining about how small the battleships were. So he went mad in their design to try and shut them up
Congress: 'Every year you ask congress for new and bigger and more expensive battleships, Every year you bring us something big and too expensive and settle for something smaller. Forget the cost. Design us our Biggest and Best battleship: Give that to us and get out of our hair.'
Tillman: 'Uh, sure. I believe the design project is possible...'
Tillman: Does the Math and calculates the total mass available for Turret/gun, Engine and Size to Speed calculations.
Tillman: 'Right so these are just prototype concepts for what we could do if you permitted us the funds to build those 'biggest ships' you asked for'
Congress: " " "...... How much?"
Tillman: 'first you'd need to allocate at least this much money to build the shipyards big enough to hold these designs, this one has ALL the guns that we can currently build, this one goes as fast as possible with current gun designs and more firepower than we were originally asking for, this one has bigger guns and more of them than the design we asked for, and THAT one.... That one has guns of 24 inch design. If you want to build that one you better set aside at least this much to get started on the gun design. Oh and the 24 inch design can outrun the destroyer design we asked you for last year.'
Congress: ".... lets just build the battleships you originally asked for then"
A few years later:
Congress: "So when are you going to start asking for those ships Tillman drew up then aye?"
Navy: 'Well, (checks his notes about the GDP of the last 5 years) you can't afford to pay for them, nor could we support them, they'd fit through the canal well enough. Tell you what: If you set aside this much money to improve our docking facilities in the following 12 ports, we can get started on the upgrades to make handling those ships possible in a few years, then we can place an order to replace every battleship in the fleet with a few of those things, and we can talk again.'
@@glenmcgillivray4707 i wouldhave love to have seen the monstrosity of the final tier ship.
@@Bipedquiped hmmm. The Tillman Design would look like a Graf Zeppelin. With More turrets, and some less armor and more speed but less turning capacity.
At least you would be able to accellerate/slow down quickly to evade torpedos
40 second reload....crap Sigma....I cannot WAIT to see Flamu play/review this Ship.
That chat was a wild experience.
10:12 ackchyually Jingles, thats an Azuma
*shotgun loads*
Got the Kansas from the missions, played 8 battles, lost all, de-eqipped her and put the captain in the Colorado. She can sit there with her golden eagle cammo and the next time I play her will be when she's so rusty she's at the bottom of the port in some Halloween submarine theme mode a few years from now
LOL
Jingles talking about terrible ships.
Me: "Okay. Hey Jingles - what's your favourite tank?"
Jingles: "TOG".......
Kansas is based on the canceled South Dakota of the 1920 BB49, Minnesota possibly was part of the same design as the Kansas meanwhile the Vermont is the Tillman 4-2 but refitted in a WW2 setting thanks to Wargaming by eliminating the middle turret for a rear superstructure.
Yes my favorite jingles videos! Forget the swimming crap lol!
"Yes Alaska, you turn that way" .....Watches Azuma turn and get blapped. Ah Jingles, never change!
I realize this is an old video, but I thought I'd comment anyway. The first two of the trio is South Dakota (I) class while the biggest (Vermont) is more like a true modified Tillman. I've used all three effectively. In fact, the first ship I sank with the Kansas was a Montana. Yes, they're slow. Kansas and Minnesota both lack in accuracy as well as speed. But a player can adapt to that. The ones willing to adapt are the ones who are most successful. That being said, I have all three ships and no regrets. It's all on your playing style and whether you're willing to adapt - as with any other class of ship. I have great respect for Rear Admiral Jingles. I love his commentaries. But I would guess that his playing style is different than mine. Good luck and good hunting all!
as someone who is currently grinding through the colorado, i can say that even though its not a bad ship im not planing on going for these new heavies.
This is a strong example of "Jingles getting ship names wrong" today. Azumi became Alaska, Ognevoi became Grozevoi, and I'm sure at least three dozen others
As a relatively new player and someone who doesn’t have time to devote to the game exclusively, I find the slow American ships a good way to keep myself from overextending and getting myself shot to hell. As I am getting better at the game I’m not making those mistakes and I’m playing the better ships.
Tillmen Designs: "Sir how do we make this?!"
Tillmen: "Magic!"
Surprisingly enough I ve had a couple of good battles with Kansas. Played to get some damage mission done for rewards and haven't played it since. It is to be sold as soon as it is possible to be
LOL the Enemy FDG that was singing Wayward Son in all chat..... His name is Kamchatka Survivor.... LOL
On firepower as a selling point: One more reason the Kansas is not good is that, due to lower damage per shell, its alpha strike is actually equal to the North Carolina's, while its reload time is considerably longer. Not sure how that is with the Minnesota.
Azuma starts to turn showing more broadside
Jingles, here in a role as himself: "Yes Alaska, you turn that way....."
The oldman getting older
I just think it's hilarious how the Minnesota was just shrugging off the torpedos. Like they weren't even there.
This whole video is just basically an "Actually Jingles" moment
Me being from Minnesota, when I heard that they were adding the USS Minnesota to the game, I spent a lot of time grinding the US battleship line, to say the least.
If memory serves, this game's USS Kansas is based on one of many various prototype designs the naval construction bureau studied in the Inter war years, whereas USS Minnesota is actually a member the 1920 South Dakota Class cancelled by the Washington Naval treaty of 1921.
I believe USS Vermont is potentially a Tillman but also, take into account how World of Warships went about 'modernising' these never built designs to reflect how they may have developed in the interwar years or more specifically post Pearl Harbor. All ships in this 'What If' Heavy BB line all look like the USS California rebuild ala Pearl Harbor.
So, accounting for this, with the added torpedo blisters and reworked armor layout, it isn't a surprise to me the ships are slower than their base designs suppose the ships could reach.
Just my thoughts as a amateur naval historian there. Overall though great expose video on this never built beauty of US engineering.
Nothing wrong with slow battleships. In fact it makes the destroyer players' tears that much sweeter when you ram them. I ran over two of them (and sunk them both) with my Texas in one game. Took no damage from the first collision, barely any from the second but those salty tears that flowed were so sweet.
I agree with you on this. I’d prefer mobility and a smaller profile to the extra armour. But then I almost exclusively play Destroyers.
This is a purely fictional battleship, the Last BB named for Minnesota was BB-22 a Connecticut-class pre-dreadnought class battleship that was on the verge of retirement at the start of WWI, she was so old that she sailed as part of the Great White Fleet in cerium navigating the world.
Yep, you can do well in them but notice one thing. This BB player pushed the entire match.. he didn't hang back, he didn't play "safe" he went for it with every knot of speed he could squeeze out. THATS how BB's should be played!.
Jingles I play my lower level battlships as often as my highest ( level nine so far ) , in fact my favorite battleship is still USS Arkansas beta and I play it every time I come onto the game.
I have been getting all the US Battleships, but I have to say the St. Louis Class is where I enjoy playing the game. I would love to see the game upgrade it to tier 4
Actually, Jingles the Kansas seems to be based on what a modernized South Dakota-class battleship of 1920 (not to be confused with the 1939 South Dakota-class) would look like. The 1920 South Dakotas were laid down in 1920 but scrapped because of the Washington Naval Treaty of 1922. Presumably the Minnesota and Vermont are evolutions of this design. Her boilers were used to modernize other battleships. So they're not Tillman Battleships, more like Standard II battleships.
Well, in fact the Kansas is based on the 1920s South Dakota design and the Minnesota is what the 1920s South Dakota design would have looked like if it would have got the same WW2 upgrades the other older dreadnought type BBs had got after they were raised and repaired from the Pearl Harbor attack. The Vermont is based on the Tillman designs however with a more realistic approach considering its speed.
Jingles I’m one of those guys I’m happy with these new BBs
JINGLES! are you going to be doing a review of the USS Oklahoma when you get the chance I miss your old ship history and review videos
actually, the Kansas and Minnesota are South Dakota (1920's) class battleships had they been finished and modernized. The Vermont appears to be Tillman IV-2 with turret 3 missing
Actually Jingles, the mid tier US BBs (Wyoming - Colorado) have exceptional turning circles
Colorado is fun when your top tier and you can easily deal with anyone shooting at you