This recording was presented at an FAA Safety Seminar I attended many years ago. Also there, the main presenter, was Captain Al Haynes, United 232. What an incredible night. These 2 gents in the MU-2 were just as calm and professional in the face of damn near certain death as Captain Haynes and his crew.
I've listened to this 20 times in the last year. What a superb job by the pilots and the controller. Really, just beautiful communication. This should be a training audio tape to beginning pilots to remain cool when it seems hopeless.
This company would kill several pilots before finally going out of business. Two pilots in an MU-2 in Terrace after an engine out with flaps down because taking off with flaps reduced tire wear (but made engine out procedures more dangerous). Two pilots in Comox after diverting there in a Navajo for an emergency landing due to inflight fire. Another Navajo crashed after going below IFR safe altitudes into Kamloops killing one pilot because the company MU-2 made it after cancelling IFR. A funny quote I found about the company. Well they are rather useful for determining how the weather at YCD is. If Jazz misses, you most likely can still get in. If NT Air misses you most likely cannot. But if Nav Air misses, there is not a hope in hell of getting down in one piece. :D "Vrrrrr, pop pop pop pop, irch irch" "Was that Nav Air?" "I dunno, can't see the runway through the fog from the hangar here." You can hear it in these pilots too. Trying to get a message to draconian management that their cancelled cheques aren’t going to make it to the destination and that there might be some damage to the props or engine on a flight they would have been brow-beaten if they refused to do it... in an ill equipped plane (no wx radar for IFR is insane) in what very well could have been the last moments of their lives.
Taking off with flaps in MU2 is standard procedure due to high wing loading, it is not a measure to save tires! If you took off 0 deg flaps you would hugely increase take off distance and climb not to mention to be at a safe single engine speed you would need to be at approx 150kts kias. I'm guessing you don't fly mu2's and rely on here say and rumors.
I flew over 1000 hours in an MU2 .... and I have been in ice with the MU2 ... I have been coated in ice and that airplane does not like to carry ice !!!! These 2 videos give me chills.... the pilots and the controllers were amazing ... what these pilots were dealing with is just incredible .... One amazing job ....
Great job to both pilots and controllers. In 47 years of professional (military and commercial) flying, I've never experienced anything (save combat) that scary! Kudos to you real pros.
well, there was this one time in the early 80's when we lost a Twotter in a crack in the sea ice at the true north pole. THAT was a fun shift, all on HF too.
On another note, we descended to 3500 above SL, about 5 to 15 seconds from ground/lake impact and if not for the heroics of two IFR terminal controllers that night, Jim and his brother, who came over from a different sector and helped by transposing the radar image onto a topographical map and directing us over a valley, we would not be here, forever indebted, thanks guys. Also thanks to whoever posted this transcript, and all the encouraging posts from my fellow aviators. Moray Isaac
@num1tailhooker High, totally agree, had two icing incidents with the MU2. Most pilots do not realise, that the aircrafts are rated and homolgated by the FAA to fly OUT of icing, not into or stay in for a longer period. b.r. Wolfgang
The starboard engine was them unfeathered and restarted, then I attempted a second time to restart the port engine, which was successful. Interestingly, post incident inspection showed cracked bleed lines running to the engine inlets, all cockpit indications showed green, valves open but bleed air was getting dumped overboard which resulted in ice build up on the engine inlets and reduced air intake performance.
Wow. I've been out of the business for 15 years now and this has my heart going. I have a very good idea of what was going on in the control room, great job guys. Great comm by the a/c too, exceptional in circumstances like these! Now when I get a pang for "the good ol' days", I'll just come listen to this then go sit quietly with a cup of tea. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. Hangar flying from now on.
As there was an emergency declared during this near disaster I assume this was a healthy airplane before someone decided to not turn around after encountering at least moderate ice? Did someone just decide to get themselves into a bit of a pickle here?
Well, business as usual with an aircraft with deicing equipment. Nobody takes care or knows that this aircraft - even nearly all Business jets - are certified to leave icing conditions until you made your own experience. Would not blame the captain, to my knowledge no icing was forcasted or observed. If it would have gone wrong, the NTSB for sure would have blamed him for not performing a 180 to avoid.
@@airnautic No icing forecast? Did you see the GFA for that day? Tell you what, if there's cloud, and the OAT is below 0C, chances are damned good there'll be ice. You've only to look at the thermometer and the leading edges to figure it out. I would describe my experience in icing conditions as "vast" and I've never got myself into a jackpot like this. Seriously, dealt with the proper respect and caution, there is practically no reason at all for stuff like this to happen in icing conditions.
As I already mentioned- was not my flight so I don´t know the MET briefing.Most of the time, when climbing for the normal flight level for the MU2 FL210 I encountered clouds below freezing. In 95%of the encounters no icing was observed. There is more to check.I suppose, that the aircraft was hampered by a non working prop deice on one side- causing vibrations and likely a not working throat heat either one or both sides. Which is not uncommon to a MU2 that the bleed line is broken after the valve. There is no indication for a working/non working throat heat.What ac are you flying?
@@airnautic Types? Anything I'm paid to under 12,500 lbs. This happened in the Canadian Rockies, in the Okanogan area. In reasonably dense cloud around there, below freezing, you can expect ice. In fact it's always wise to expect ice in those conditions and plan accordingly. I'm just tired of these stories of pilots saving the day when it was actually their poor judgement that got them to the point that that became necessary in the first place! In my 46 years of flying, I can honestly say that I've never had bad weather call me on the radio and say "Hey, it's beautiful here, don't be worried, there's nothing ugly happening at all, why don't you come for a visit?". Whenever I found myself in shitty conditions it was entirely due to my actions. Actually, there was one exception; On a clear cool day many years ago, smooth as glass, we were cruising along (fortunately no passengers) and got hammered by CAT, and by hammered I mean we saw stars. That is the one instance where I can truthfully say I had no inkling of what I was getting into as far as weather phenomena went. We had our belts done up but I still cut my head on the overhead vents which I calculated my spine had to stretch about 6 inches for my head to reach (obviously all kinds of things stretch and compress during that sort of thing but I find the notion that CAT can stretch you like a rubber band to be a satisfying image). I suspect one of the reasons you haven't had to deal with much ice in the Mitsu is it climbs like a bloody rocket.
When he went to 4000 fpm he was out of control...ROM and ATC knew this...this had a happy ending because two professionals kept the cool and focus. Good job men!
Congratulations guys on the professionalism and what a great example to all pilots about how to respond and think in emergency situations. Super job and thank you for helping to make me think about being a better pilot. Bill
Also and most importantly, this A/C did not have the optional pilot selectable ignition modification. It was the only A/C I have flown, and authorized by the MOT and the FAA at the time, to operate in icing conditions without it, if I had that option, the engines could have relit and the emergency would not have become so dire. The company retrofitted the A/C shortly after
Great job from all involved. Kept cool and flew the airplane. ATC did a wonderful job communicating to the pilots in a calm voice, and gave information quickly a
I'm a 16,000 ATP with worldwide experience, and get shivers when I listen to this, as it could have been any of us. Terrific job by all involved, this could have been tragic. Excellent Captain, Excellent ATP overcome aircraft shortfall.,
We descended into the cloud layer we had been above which further exasperated the icing problem. The critical problems occurred as the engines failed due to ice ingestion from the prop hubs as we descended into warmer air. The starboard engine failed and was feathered as per emergency checklist... while descending at 4000 feet per minute the port engine failed after and a restart was attempted, but unsuccessful due too severe first stage impeller damage from ice ingestion.
@airnautic; Good to be able to talk to you! I'm an ex RVN door gunner and ex ATC (Army). I can tell you from experience that to crash and burn is not a good thing. You did a miraculous job taking care of business. Kudos.
The flight route had reported cloud tops at FL190 and we were cruising at FL230 that night, the aircraft did not have weather radar and we entered cloud, heavy ice and executed a 180 within two minutes of encountering. The anti-ice systems were on and operable according to cockpit indications. We had a tailwind of 70 plus kts and once the turn was initiated the A/C could not maintain altitude with full power, torque and temp limiters off.
Quite a show. I am happy that I have not had to deal with that particular situation while I've had my own intrigues. Makes for interesting reading and the comm kept me quiet the whole time. Pleased that they made it.
@airnautic Unless you've been in it, it is hard to imagine how fast the ice can pour on. I've seen well over an inch a minute so I'm not surprised at your predicament after just five minutes exposure. Wonderful that your good luck just slightly outweighed your bad luck that day.
A good friend through my childhood and the main instigator to my introduction to gliding lost a good friend of his in a MU2 in Western Australia quiet some time ago. You guys made a good job out of a very bad situation. Had the hairs on the back of my neck stand up listening to this.
When I went thru ATC training many years ago (already), we had the 'pleasure' of listening to the unedited tapes played in the classroom. It leaves an impression to a rookie, no doubt. Hearing this, albeit in an abridged version, it brings me right back to then. I've since had many, many similar, though somewhat less dire, circumstances happen to me while on duty, both in Eastern and Western Canada.They'll never compare to this (I hope). Glad you're still with us, and good job by my coworkers.
@hammerogod High, the problem is not the spoiler, but the very sufficent and therefor very small elevator. Lift vektor pointing down as it should be. But does have only little safety margin for disturbed airflow. Was trained on type std. stall and full power stalls, no bad behavior, still controllable with the spoilers- an absolute no go on aileron aircrafts. Sink rate increases dramatically, but stays full controlable in any direction. Just release elevator a bit to regain flight regime br Wol
I just listened to this the a few seconds ago and I am glad that you and the captain of the flight made it out safe. As it was said the Angles were with you that night. I also will take this as a lesson about the dangers of icing conditions.
That was gripping! Excellent job by the flight crew to stay calm and get those engines going. Excellent job by ATC to keep giving headings and staying in the game! ORD controller...
Amazing! I am always amazed at how calm the pilots sound in life and death situations. I'd been crying at the 4,000 feet per minute report- lost both engines, what an awesome crew this must have been!
No plane that I can think of in the world that is flight into known icing FIKI certified, has "belly heaters" getting ice on the belly is not a thought or a concern, compared to ice, say on your wings that do the lifting. I just flew in moderate ice tonight in an MU2 marquise and it does quite well, just keep speed up and pay attention. Belly ice is a myth......
2:43 (unintelligible) the atc controller says "no acknowledgement necessary" because ATC had already delcared it was an emergency, and as soon as he said he was going down 4000fpm ATC knew he was in serious shit and had a big enough workload, great upload btw
Regardless of the anti icing equipment installed on aircraft, no aircraft can withstand continued flight in severe icing. In addition to the destruction of normal airflow over the aircraft surfaces, ice adds a lot of weight to the aircraft. Even with anti icing, the loss of lift caused by the ice on the wing surfaces and the added weight will result in there not being enough engine power to stay level. If at all possible, never fly in known icing conditions.
Great work! Pretty scary event and it sounds like you guys had pretty calm heads, which in a situation like that is unbelieveable. Glad it turned out well and that you are here to talk about it. Someone was definitely looking out for you!
Good Morning friends, enclosed please find the official report from the PIC of this flight splitted in several parts. Very very good job, Moray, John and his brother! I was the Captain of that flight and would like to add some facts and clear up some misconceptions posted by some. Firstly, I am an ATR rated commercial pilot with 13000 PIC hours in turboprop, turbojet and turbofan aircraft not an owner/operator and had extensive training in the operation of the MU2.
Even quicker! Had an SCLD event (super cooled liquid droplets) in an MU2B60 which left the elevator u/s. Within seconds of encounter I was in a full power dive. By busting tourque limits (-10 engines) and red line (speed), I regained control shortly before impact in a valley. On the other hand, a C421 would never have made it due to the real big icing! b.r. Wolfgang
Wow. Love happy endings. Glad they got the engines re-lit. All I can say is that I wish they had expedited down to the safe altitude for icing that was given at FL130 instead of continuing to pick up ice on the slow way down. But that part at 4000 fpm was that scariest, although vectors through a valley is no picnic either. I thought ATC had some serious terrain info when they told you to only change heading 10° climbing out of that valley. So that was single engine ops after the relight? Wow!
Kudos to you guys, must have been REALLY scary. You remained cool, did a wonderful job all the way down (so to say). I also have 13k hours, mostly bush time though, but never been in such bad stuff (yet). Fly safe and thanks bunches for sharing. It WILL help others down the road.
Having flown Garrett powered airplanes before they have always been a problem in ice. With no bypass they first stage gets iced up easily. MU2's especially had problems with ice. I would never fly an garrett powered airplane in ice or on bush strips for that reason. Probably why no current production corp aircraft use the Garrett/Honeywell.
Wow, amazing to listen to. Wasn't sure why my dad (former hobby pilot) sent this to me until I heard the words "Mable Lake". We've vacationed there for the past 33 summers. I am not a pilot and don't understand any of the technical stuff you guys are talking about, but I was wondering why the airstrip at Mable Lake or Vernon Airport weren't options for an emergency landing?
MU2 has a supercritical airfoil. When ice build up, drag is inreased more than on conventional airfoils- so more power and more speed is required to keep it flying. Never encountered belly ice on high angle of attack, but on wing and elevator, what nearly killed me once. b.r. Wolfgang
I have a hard time buying that the MU-2 is a great aircraft. Yes, for what it was it was very high-performance; however, it just doesn't fly well with an engine out or with even a little ice accumulation. The wing is small, most of the fuel is at the wing tips which does not do a lot for odd attitude recovery or stability. But, I will rest my case with a crash rate of greater than 25% as of 2004. This is according to the Baltimore Sun newspaper. Mitsubishi built 755 MU-2s, as of 2004 183 have crashed killing 196 people. I will say that in the last ten years the safety record has improved dramatically. The experts say this is due to increased mandatory training requirements. Bear in mind that there are only 270 of MU2s flying now. I wonder what happened to the other 300 of them?
@jjsandersheli Turbine inlet heat (hot air from compressor) Prop blades (electric heat) leading edge of wing, elevator and rudder (pneumatic tubes) heated windshield (hot air from compressor) pitot and static heat (electric) b.r. Wolfgang
This recording was presented at an FAA Safety Seminar I attended many years ago. Also there, the main presenter, was Captain Al Haynes, United 232. What an incredible night. These 2 gents in the MU-2 were just as calm and professional in the face of damn near certain death as Captain Haynes and his crew.
I've listened to this 20 times in the last year. What a superb job by the pilots and the controller. Really, just beautiful communication. This should be a training audio tape to beginning pilots to remain cool when it seems hopeless.
We do study this. I've listened to this at Confederation College a few times.
This company would kill several pilots before finally going out of business. Two pilots in an MU-2 in Terrace after an engine out with flaps down because taking off with flaps reduced tire wear (but made engine out procedures more dangerous). Two pilots in Comox after diverting there in a Navajo for an emergency landing due to inflight fire. Another Navajo crashed after going below IFR safe altitudes into Kamloops killing one pilot because the company MU-2 made it after cancelling IFR.
A funny quote I found about the company.
Well they are rather useful for determining how the weather at YCD is.
If Jazz misses, you most likely can still get in.
If NT Air misses you most likely cannot.
But if Nav Air misses, there is not a hope in hell of getting down in one piece.
:D
"Vrrrrr, pop pop pop pop, irch irch"
"Was that Nav Air?"
"I dunno, can't see the runway through the fog from the hangar here."
You can hear it in these pilots too. Trying to get a message to draconian management that their cancelled cheques aren’t going to make it to the destination and that there might be some damage to the props or engine on a flight they would have been brow-beaten if they refused to do it... in an ill equipped plane (no wx radar for IFR is insane) in what very well could have been the last moments of their lives.
Taking off with flaps in MU2 is standard procedure due to high wing loading, it is not a measure to save tires! If you took off 0 deg flaps you would hugely increase take off distance and climb not to mention to be at a safe single engine speed you would need to be at approx 150kts kias. I'm guessing you don't fly mu2's and rely on here say and rumors.
Wow!
I flew over 1000 hours in an MU2 .... and I have been in ice with the MU2 ... I have been coated in ice and that airplane does not like to carry ice !!!! These 2 videos give me chills.... the pilots and the controllers were amazing ... what these pilots were dealing with is just incredible .... One amazing job ....
Great job to both pilots and controllers. In 47 years of professional (military and commercial) flying, I've never experienced anything (save combat) that scary! Kudos to you real pros.
well, there was this one time in the early 80's when we lost a Twotter in a crack in the sea ice at the true north pole. THAT was a fun shift, all on HF too.
On another note, we descended to 3500 above SL, about 5 to 15 seconds from ground/lake impact and if not for the heroics of two IFR terminal controllers that night, Jim and his brother, who came over from a different sector and helped by transposing the radar image onto a topographical map and directing us over a valley, we would not be here, forever indebted, thanks guys. Also thanks to whoever posted this transcript, and all the encouraging posts from my fellow aviators.
Moray Isaac
Glad you two made it home safe and sound.
WOW! Major props to pilots and ATC. I said several dirty words listening to that one!! Praise God for the wonderful ending!!!
Amazing job by the crew and ATC. Talk about intense!
Man I hope they all had a beer after that one, god blessed those guys
@num1tailhooker
High, totally agree, had two icing incidents with the MU2.
Most pilots do not realise, that the aircrafts are rated and homolgated by the FAA to fly OUT of icing, not into or stay in for a longer period.
b.r.
Wolfgang
The starboard engine was them unfeathered and restarted, then I attempted a second time to restart the port engine, which was successful. Interestingly, post incident inspection showed cracked bleed lines running to the engine inlets, all cockpit indications showed green, valves open but bleed air was getting dumped overboard which resulted in ice build up on the engine inlets and reduced air intake performance.
Wow. I've been out of the business for 15 years now and this has my heart going. I have a very good idea of what was going on in the control room, great job guys. Great comm by the a/c too, exceptional in circumstances like these! Now when I get a pang for "the good ol' days", I'll just come listen to this then go sit quietly with a cup of tea. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. Hangar flying from now on.
Thank you.
Still my favorite emergency recording of all time.
As there was an emergency declared during this near disaster I assume this was a healthy airplane before someone decided to not turn around after encountering at least moderate ice?
Did someone just decide to get themselves into a bit of a pickle here?
Well, business as usual with an aircraft with deicing equipment. Nobody takes care or knows that this aircraft - even nearly all Business jets - are certified to leave icing conditions until you made your own experience. Would not blame the captain, to my knowledge no icing was forcasted or observed.
If it would have gone wrong, the NTSB for sure would have blamed him for not performing a 180 to avoid.
@@airnautic No icing forecast? Did you see the GFA for that day? Tell you what, if there's cloud, and the OAT is below 0C, chances are damned good there'll be ice. You've only to look at the thermometer and the leading edges to figure it out.
I would describe my experience in icing conditions as "vast" and I've never got myself into a jackpot like this.
Seriously, dealt with the proper respect and caution, there is practically no reason at all for stuff like this to happen in icing conditions.
As I already mentioned- was not my flight so I don´t know the MET briefing.Most of the time, when climbing for the normal flight level for the MU2 FL210 I encountered clouds below freezing. In 95%of the encounters no icing was observed. There is more to check.I suppose, that the aircraft was hampered by a non working prop deice on one side- causing vibrations and likely a not working throat heat either one or both sides. Which is not uncommon to a MU2 that the bleed line is broken after the valve. There is no indication for a working/non working throat heat.What ac are you flying?
@@airnautic Types? Anything I'm paid to under 12,500 lbs. This happened in the Canadian Rockies, in the Okanogan area. In reasonably dense cloud around there, below freezing, you can expect ice. In fact it's always wise to expect ice in those conditions and plan accordingly.
I'm just tired of these stories of pilots saving the day when it was actually their poor judgement that got them to the point that that became necessary in the first place!
In my 46 years of flying, I can honestly say that I've never had bad weather call me on the radio and say "Hey, it's beautiful here, don't be worried, there's nothing ugly happening at all, why don't you come for a visit?". Whenever I found myself in shitty conditions it was entirely due to my actions.
Actually, there was one exception; On a clear cool day many years ago, smooth as glass, we were cruising along (fortunately no passengers) and got hammered by CAT, and by hammered I mean we saw stars. That is the one instance where I can truthfully say I had no inkling of what I was getting into as far as weather phenomena went. We had our belts done up but I still cut my head on the overhead vents which I calculated my spine had to stretch about 6 inches for my head to reach (obviously all kinds of things stretch and compress during that sort of thing but I find the notion that CAT can stretch you like a rubber band to be a satisfying image).
I suspect one of the reasons you haven't had to deal with much ice in the Mitsu is it climbs like a bloody rocket.
When he went to 4000 fpm he was out of control...ROM and ATC knew this...this had a happy ending because two professionals kept the cool and focus. Good job men!
Professionals for sure.
Very tense, grim situation, - but everyone kept there cool, no one panicked.
Congratulations guys on the professionalism and what a great example to all pilots about how to respond and think in emergency situations. Super job and thank you for helping to make me think about being a better pilot.
Bill
Also and most importantly, this A/C did not have the optional pilot selectable ignition modification. It was the only A/C I have flown, and authorized by the MOT and the FAA at the time, to operate in icing conditions without it, if I had that option, the engines could have relit and the emergency would not have become so dire. The company retrofitted the A/C shortly after
Great job from all involved. Kept cool and flew the airplane. ATC did a wonderful job communicating to the pilots in a calm voice, and gave information quickly a
Never give up. That's awesome.
I'm a 16,000 ATP with worldwide experience, and get shivers when I listen to this, as it could have been any of us.
Terrific job by all involved, this could have been tragic.
Excellent Captain, Excellent ATP overcome aircraft shortfall.,
We descended into the cloud layer we had been above which further exasperated the icing problem. The critical problems occurred as the engines failed due to ice ingestion from the prop hubs as we descended into warmer air. The starboard engine failed and was feathered as per emergency checklist... while descending at 4000 feet per minute the port engine failed after and a restart was attempted, but unsuccessful due too severe first stage impeller damage from ice ingestion.
I flew the MU-2 for about 1100 hours and I learned to really respect icing in that machine. Glad they made it!
@airnautic; Good to be able to talk to you! I'm an ex RVN door gunner and ex ATC (Army). I can tell you from experience that to crash and burn is not a good thing. You did a miraculous job taking care of business. Kudos.
The flight route had reported cloud tops at FL190 and we were cruising at FL230 that night, the aircraft did not have weather radar and we entered cloud, heavy ice and executed a 180 within two minutes of encountering. The anti-ice systems were on and operable according to cockpit indications. We had a tailwind of 70 plus kts and once the turn was initiated the A/C could not maintain altitude with full power, torque and temp limiters off.
can someone tell my when that happened? Sounds like some time ago.
That's one all around for the good guys and the Big Guy.
Quite a show. I am happy that I have not had to deal with that particular situation while I've had my own intrigues. Makes for interesting reading and the comm kept me quiet the whole time. Pleased that they made it.
Considering all that was going on, the pilots remained slow and calm on the radio. Just amazing.
Wow,.. that was scary! Thanks for sharing
Nice work gentlemen.
@airnautic Unless you've been in it, it is hard to imagine how fast the ice can pour on. I've seen well over an inch a minute so I'm not surprised at your predicament after just five minutes exposure. Wonderful that your good luck just slightly outweighed your bad luck that day.
A good friend through my childhood and the main instigator to my introduction to gliding lost a good friend of his in a MU2 in Western Australia quiet some time ago. You guys made a good job out of a very bad situation. Had the hairs on the back of my neck stand up listening to this.
When I went thru ATC training many years ago (already), we had the 'pleasure' of listening to the unedited tapes played in the classroom. It leaves an impression to a rookie, no doubt. Hearing this, albeit in an abridged version, it brings me right back to then. I've since had many, many similar, though somewhat less dire, circumstances happen to me while on duty, both in Eastern and Western Canada.They'll never compare to this (I hope). Glad you're still with us, and good job by my coworkers.
@hammerogod
High, the problem is not the spoiler, but the very sufficent and therefor very small elevator. Lift vektor pointing down as it should be. But does have only little safety margin for disturbed airflow.
Was trained on type std. stall and full power stalls, no bad behavior, still controllable with the spoilers- an absolute no go on aileron aircrafts. Sink rate increases dramatically, but stays full controlable in any direction. Just release elevator a bit to regain flight regime
br
Wol
nice job holding ur wits about u...keeping ur focus on the ball...real nice...
Great job from the crew and ATC. Valid and accurate information makes a difference!
amazing!,
I just listened to this the a few seconds ago and I am glad that you and the captain of the flight made it out safe. As it was said the Angles were with you that night. I also will take this as a lesson about the dangers of icing conditions.
That was gripping! Excellent job by the flight crew to stay calm and get those engines going. Excellent job by ATC to keep giving headings and staying in the game!
ORD controller...
Holy Shit. That was a 10+ pucker factor
Wow, that was something, thanks for sharing this...
well said sir!
Amazing! I am always amazed at how calm the pilots sound in life and death situations. I'd been crying at the 4,000 feet per minute report- lost both engines, what an awesome crew this must have been!
MU-2's notorious for "Belly" icing at high angle of attack (no heaters for the belly).
No plane that I can think of in the world that is flight into known icing FIKI certified, has "belly heaters"
getting ice on the belly is not a thought or a concern, compared to ice, say on your wings that do the lifting. I just flew in moderate ice tonight in an MU2 marquise and it does quite well, just keep speed up and pay attention. Belly ice is a myth......
Bravo - way to go, guys!!
2:43 (unintelligible) the atc controller says "no acknowledgement necessary" because ATC had already delcared it was an emergency, and as soon as he said he was going down 4000fpm ATC knew he was in serious shit and had a big enough workload, great upload btw
Great team work guys!
Regardless of the anti icing equipment installed on aircraft, no aircraft can withstand continued flight in severe icing. In addition to the destruction of normal airflow over the aircraft surfaces, ice adds a lot of weight to the aircraft. Even with anti icing, the loss of lift caused by the ice on the wing surfaces and the added weight will result in there not being enough engine power to stay level. If at all possible, never fly in known icing conditions.
Great! Thanks for this post.
Great work! Pretty scary event and it sounds like you guys had pretty calm heads, which in a situation like that is unbelieveable. Glad it turned out well and that you are here to talk about it. Someone was definitely looking out for you!
Good Morning friends,
enclosed please find the official report from the PIC of this flight splitted in several parts.
Very very good job, Moray, John and his brother!
I was the Captain of that flight and would like to add some facts and clear up some misconceptions posted by some. Firstly, I am an ATR rated commercial pilot with 13000 PIC hours in turboprop, turbojet and turbofan aircraft not an owner/operator and had extensive training in the operation of the MU2.
Hi Moray, you were both very impressive under fire. Congratulatiuons on a job well done to both you and ATC! Best, Andy Keeney
Even quicker! Had an SCLD event (super cooled liquid droplets) in an MU2B60 which left the elevator u/s. Within seconds of encounter I was in a full power dive. By busting tourque limits (-10 engines) and red line (speed), I regained control shortly before impact in a valley. On the other hand, a C421 would never have made it due to the real big icing!
b.r.
Wolfgang
Wow. Love happy endings. Glad they got the engines re-lit. All I can say is that I wish they had expedited down to the safe altitude for icing that was given at FL130 instead of continuing to pick up ice on the slow way down. But that part at 4000 fpm was that scariest, although vectors through a valley is no picnic either. I thought ATC had some serious terrain info when they told you to only change heading 10° climbing out of that valley. So that was single engine ops after the relight? Wow!
How does this video have 6 dislikes!? Fantastic!!
Sometimes the system works. Nothing like professionals.
Kudos to you guys, must have been REALLY scary. You remained cool, did a wonderful job all the way down (so to say). I also have 13k hours, mostly bush time though, but never been in such bad stuff (yet). Fly safe and thanks bunches for sharing. It WILL help others down the road.
wow, now I won't get to sleep for quite a while!!!
Having flown Garrett powered airplanes before they have always been a problem in ice. With no bypass they first stage gets iced up easily. MU2's especially had problems with ice. I would never fly an garrett powered airplane in ice or on bush strips for that reason. Probably why no current production corp aircraft use the Garrett/Honeywell.
PT6 or bust.
Wow !!!! Well done boys !!!! Inspiration for the rest of us.
Wow, amazing to listen to. Wasn't sure why my dad (former hobby pilot) sent this to me until I heard the words "Mable Lake". We've vacationed there for the past 33 summers. I am not a pilot and don't understand any of the technical stuff you guys are talking about, but I was wondering why the airstrip at Mable Lake or Vernon Airport weren't options for an emergency landing?
MU2 has a supercritical airfoil. When ice build up, drag is inreased more than on conventional airfoils- so more power and more speed is required to keep it flying.
Never encountered belly ice on high angle of attack, but on wing and elevator, what nearly killed me once.
b.r.
Wolfgang
I have a hard time buying that the MU-2 is a great aircraft. Yes, for what it was it was very high-performance; however, it just doesn't fly well with an engine out or with even a little ice accumulation. The wing is small, most of the fuel is at the wing tips which does not do a lot for odd attitude recovery or stability. But, I will rest my case with a crash rate of greater than 25% as of 2004. This is according to the Baltimore Sun newspaper. Mitsubishi built 755 MU-2s, as of 2004 183 have crashed killing 196 people.
I will say that in the last ten years the safety record has improved dramatically. The experts say this is due to increased mandatory training requirements. Bear in mind that there are only 270 of MU2s flying now. I wonder what happened to the other 300 of them?
Scrap metal.
holy. crap. this is by far the best emergency atc video on youtube. and only 1000 views??? i about peed in my own pants.
@airnautic By the by, "exacerbated" is the word you wanted.
Pilots did not follow procedure and turned on both smile heat simultaneously.
wow! amazing
Damn that was hard core.
@jjsandersheli
Turbine inlet heat (hot air from compressor)
Prop blades (electric heat)
leading edge of wing, elevator and rudder (pneumatic tubes)
heated windshield (hot air from compressor)
pitot and static heat (electric)
b.r.
Wolfgang
Holy shitballs they were probably 500 vertical feet from death...
MU-2 can do!
major pucker factor
2:50, unintelligable = "no acknowledgement needed"
somewhere in there he forgot 10,000 feet.
what is the anti icing equipment?
Was Bob Chambers the copilot on this flight?
Yes he was
What does ROM stand for?When did this happen?
Romeo Oskar Mike is part of the registration nr. of aircraft
txs,
but it was not my flight,
captain was Moray Isaac!
b.r.
Wolfgang
No thank you
Nice Job..sounds like a flying by the seat of your pants.
👊
Thats gets your heart rate up :-0
*no acknowledgement necessary.
Thank you.