Are Dovetail Grooves Strong Enough for Microjig Dovetail Clamps? Let's Find Out!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2020
- In this video I test the strength of dovetail grooves when used with the Microjig matchfit dovetail clamps. I have used the microjig clamping system for a long time in my shop and I get a lot of questions on just how strong they really are. For the testing I used a few different testing methods and three types of wood to ensure we covered all the basis. Enjoy!
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Microjig Clamps: amzn.to/3lSTAC6
Microjig Dovetail Bit: amzn.to/2F1T3gg
Microjig Setup Gauge: amzn.to/2YWOQRO
Woodpeckers Router Table and Lift: amzn.to/2Eb7p9Y
Safety Start and Stop: amzn.to/2IH8hbS
Push Blocks: amzn.to/3jDXMn5
Armor Tool Bench: amzn.to/2IH85ta
Canon T6i DSLR: amzn.to/2EgiiHx
External Lavalier Microphone: amzn.to/32N91Tu
Canon EF 28-135mm f/3 Zoom Lens: amzn.to/2H1HaWw - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
![Matchfit Microjig Dovetail Clamps [**Gifted/Ad] [video 499]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uiT6F-K26Tg/mqdefault.jpg)
Awesome test! I think the ash failed because the failure plane should be about 45° which looks like it may have been in line with the grain direction. Had it been in the opposite direction, I bet it would have been stronger.
I bet you’re exactly right. I thought about the same thing after I watched the video. Would like to try it with the opposite direction! Thank you!
I'd love to hear how that turns out. Like you said, it's an unconventional, and unlikely clamping method, but must be done for science!
@@PenaltyBoxWoodshop Hey Jess no worries you have 37,000 other and I know youre busy. Like t share my dovetail method with yu sometime.
These clamps are great as long as you realize their limitations. None of the later tests here were legitimate due to clamping methods, but still interesting.
WARNING! I just built a workbench top using the Microjig 360 Workbench plans (which need improving). While doing so, I did experience dovetail groove failure when I left the clamp in a groove without it securing wood - dangling in the groove. I happened to brush against the clamp and the result was a broken groove - the wood split. No more clamping at that area of the dovetail groove. So, don't leave a dovetail clamp in a groove without having it pushed snug against the table or a piece of wood that you want clamped. I still love the dovetail clamp concept.
Thanks for this video! I had been wondering about the strength of this system and your tests really answer all my questions.
Great video! I've decided to go to this system for my shop. Now, after seeing this I won't have any concerns. Thanks!!!
Awesome!!!!!
Love these tests in the name of science!! Glad I found this channel!
I totally agree. Every situation I've seen where these fail are unconventional scenarios where someone just grabs one and pulls in a direction that's not 100% supported like where you had a huge gap between your work piece and the cleaning surface. I personally love the dovetail system
Yep! I haven’t had one fail in a conventional manner yet
Just found this. I’ve been using the microjig system for a cpl years… while the routs are probably not going to fail outright like here, in MDF they do compress AND abrade over time and eventually get too sloppy to use. The solution is to make the clamping surface easily replaceable or use something like Baltic birch. In MDF I flood the channel w a cpl doses of thin CA glue which really does seem to help
Super interesting. Thanks for going to the effort to make this ❤
Jess great to see your video and as always I learn something everytime I watch! This was a great test of MicroJig products and they are high quality as you just proved. My Microjig clamps & other products are an important element of my shop. I know these Vids are a lot of work and all I can say is thank you Jess! By the way I sent you an email last week would love to hear your comments on!
Hey Rich! Read your email and was hoping to have some time to sit down and respond this evening! Thanks for your support and kindness and always!!!
😎👏👏👏 Thank you sir for your tests and great video! Just got myself dado matchfit and dovetail clamp pro set! Cant wait to try it out! Thanks again for your time and video!!😎👍👍
You’ll love it!
Thanks for this demo. You gained a sub my friend.
Great video. I always wondered how strong the dovetail joint clamp was and you now made me a believer! Thank you and I plan to buy these clamps and make a sliding table saw jig using them!
Heck yeah!!!!
Good video, I learned a lot! Thank you!
Great test.
These clamps work great as long as you have the clamped material directly above the clamp arm (in the slot)... just like a t-track clamp. The material clamped provides equal pressure down, meeting the pressure up from the clamp arm and spreading the load out towards the sides. Without the supporting material above, the track will blow-out no matter the material used for the base... again, just like a t-track will. They are not designed to be used otherwise, at least under anything but the lightest of clamping load.
I love mine since it is so easy to route tracks just about anywhere, as opposed to t-tracks (more effort and $ to install). My plywood topped outfeed/assembly table is full of dovetail groves.
Very informative! Thanks.
Glad it was helpful! Thank you!
Great video. Appreciate this information
Glad it was helpful 👊👊
great video Jesse. I agree under normal operations, MDF and Plywood would be just fine. Im glad you showed the failures.
Thanks Patrick! It was fun to test out!
thanks- i was wondering and now i know
Great test. Thank you for posting this video. It would be appreciated if you would do a head to head test comparing the strengths of the routed dovetails against aluminium t-track, routed t-track, or slots milled into the base.
That’s a pretty good idea. Thanks
There is a video of that test. I think the maker of micro jig did the test...I just watched it but can't remember where.
Great review. I've been thoroughly unimpressed with the Rockler T-Track system and have been thinking of making the move over. Thanks!
They work really well. Thanks!
Rockler products are crap.
Awesome video dude! I've been wondering how strong these are. Thanks!
Thanks Brando! I wanted to see for myself and now I have no doubt that they are strong enough.
Get that man a beer and a sponsorship, now!; Awesome video.
I like the way this guy thinks lol
I am currently in the design/research phase for building a MicroJig Dovetail Workbench, I see many advantages. And so I really appreciate your testing efforts since strength of materials is a primary concern. Your analysis has sparked more in depth thought and I want to share. First I was surprised to see the wood break out easier than the Baltic Birch plywood but I then thought: 1) your clamp was with the grain and so was possibly testing its weakest situation, I noticed how just a bit of grain severed, thinking that running the clamp across grain would be at least a bit stronger. 2) In my experience with ash it seems to be a bit rigid, possibly because of its open grain. Wondering if maple, that is a wee bit harder and very dense, might hold up better 3) Then in considering grain direction it came to mind that the Baltic Birch is laminated with grain in opposite directions so no matter which way one would clamp there would be cross grain clamping. Birch is a bit softer than ash but like maple dense.
My thinking to this point was to use MDF with a Formica laminate. After watching your video I am now leaning real hard to Baltic Birch with a Formica laminate. Thinking that the Formica laminate will provide a nice smooth easy to clean work surface and might/should add some strength, maybe even considerable strength.
So this test you presented really gave me some great input and thank you for doing so. If you, or anyone, has any thoughts on my above rational I would appreciate, especially as to the advantage of adding a Formica laminate.
Thank you so much for the in depth comment and analysis. I actually agree with the fact that it most likely broke due to grain direction which was something I didn’t think about when making the video. I think your idea of Baltic birch with a laminate top will work excellent!!!!! Thanks for the support and good luck!!!!
Looking into an HDPE assembly table myself. I thought I saw one on one of the micro jig videos. May fit the bill for your requirements also.
It was also unfair on how he placed the hold-downs. On the plywood they were closer to the dovetail grove. In the ash test they were a good bit further away. If the hold-downs were fractions of an inch away from the groove I suspect both would have held up well. You mentioned the grain, and I was watching the test while studying the grain and thought the ash would fail easily. If it had been all vertical grain the results would have been different. Also that was high end plywood! 13 layers. Try the same test with a 3-layer plywood with voids and watch the difference! The quality of the plywood is a BIG factor.
Needed to clamp down the test pieces all in the same place. MDF was clamped in back and way to one side. Plywood had two clamps up front and about halfway between dovetail and legs. Ash clamped more to the leg for one of the clamps.
I spotted the same thing. That bridged MDF wasn't aided by clamps like the BB and ash were.
Interesting test. Thanks for posting this. After making Jay Bate's Matchfit Workhorse, I'm wondering if plywood might have been an option to consider
The second test at 10:29 is a little bit unfair. While you tested MDF by clamping the piece down from the side, you used two clamps on the front side for Plywood. That of course holds back your piece better than MDF from the side. So the testing conditions are not really similiar. But it's a good overview for sure, thanks!
Great test! I have been wanting to test this myself. Thanks for doing this! Now I am curious how a t-slot clamp would withstand the same test.
Glad it was helpful! Yeah. t stops would be a good test as well
I think the second test may be the more accurate. If in the first tests the bottom metal of the clamp is touching the board it is holding down the only way to make the clamp fail is to crush the board. The clamp has to have a small gap between the board and the metal of the clamp. As an example, if you had a 1 inch dado in the bottom for the clamp to slide into. You could crank the clamp really hard but still just lift the hole assembly up. Hard to see if in the video there was always a small gap between the bottom metal piece and the clamped board. Thanks for the test but I am less impressed with my dove tail clamps.
Great video! I was looking to see how this would hold up in MDF. Yeah, it broke in the MDF, but like you said, it was unconventional. I think for normal clamping use, it should work fine for the application use I plan on using it for.
Yep. I’ve never had an issue when using them normally
Exactly - I’m planning an assembly table/tracksaw cutting station and want to use MDF for the top. A few slots running lengthwise will be great for stop blocks & jigs. Based on this video, I don’t see any problems.
Good job on this video. It was a good evaluation of all 3 types of materials. Yes you could make them fail, but all of the failures happened in a fashion that we should never use this clamps. So in reality they only failed when misused.
Thanks for the video. I just got my first clamps and I’m just starting to use them. Question: I know you showed that MDF failed fairly easily, but have you used MDF for your dovetail tracks on occasion and, if so, what applications? Thanks
Thanks Matt and congrats on getting started! I’ve used MDF and dovetail clamps for sacrificial table saw fences and other various sleds. It’s not that bad but you have to know when you work with it that it can fail easier than others
7:08 Plywood may had performed better because it has cross laminations and was better supported because your bench clamps were installed closer to the slot than you did with the other materials.
That very well may be the case. I don’t disagree
Yeah, the MDF was clamped to the bench way further back, whereas the PLY was clamped very close to the slot ... so not really a like for like test.
Greta test. The only thing i can think of why Ash failed that easily would be the grain direction maybe? If the Ash was plain sawn the layers would be like that of the plywood maybe it would yield better results. However with the glue lsyers of the plywood since its stronger than the wood itself maybe thats why in addition to its layers being horizontal in relation to the clamp force.
Thanks and I agree. The grain direction was a failure point and I didn’t think of it until after then video was shot.
Thanks for this. I've been afraid to try these. Then again, I would be curious to know if aluminum t-track holds up much better than the plywood.
One case I can think of where a gap above the slot would happen is clamping a tool that has feet to a bench. E.g. I have a mortiser that I don't use often. Might be good to attach it to a board with countersunk bolts if planning to use with these.
Great point!
I love my MicroJig Clamps! Great test with confidence building outcome. One question.... I noticed that you didn't do a preliminary pass with a straight bit before running the MicroJig Dovetail. If I'm not mistaken MicroJig recommends always doing a preliminary pass. Perhaps this is just to save wear and tear on the bit, but I'm not sure. Can you think of any situations when it's best to do a preliminary pass with a straight bit (ie. 1/4"-3/8")?
Thanks for sharing this. Was concerned about using MDF but with this info I feel confident it will work for the jig I’m building.
I wonder if you did the ash cross grain if it would have been stronger
The last test pulling clamp up on Ash/ try doing that same test with track running across grain. Looks like the test you did was with track running along grain.
Yea, I didn’t realize it until later but I agree
Great tests though! I just bought the micro jig dovetail clamps and was wondering how well they work. I expected they wouldn't work too well with plywood so was grateful you showed that test!
Thanks! I havnt had any problems with them
Clamps at 6:23 are in a different orientation to the ones at 7:02. Not consistent test conditions.
I coated the grooves with CPES™ - Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer and hardened the Baltic birch board into an almost metal-like holder. It's a specialized penetrating hardener that can extend the life of the grooves considerably.
Oooh. I assume this can be done to MDF/HDF as well?
@@MadLadsAnonymous Check out the people that make the stuff for a more intelligent answer than I can supply. I would presume that the CPES epoxy would penetrate to a certain distance and that part would be strong, but... if the epoxy was not present, that would be where the weak part would start. It's a killer product and it lasts a loooong time!
In any of your conventional clamping testing did the dovetail portion of the clamp contact the clamped board? (Causing a dent in the clamped board).
Great question and no it didn’t at all. It raised up but never enough for that
Great video Jesse. I am slowly building my Microjig clamp arsenal. I have been think for a very long time about the jigs I would like to build that will give me the most clamping opportunities. I am thinking for sure now to use plywood.👍
Thanks friends! I use these things so much I probably should have had a pocket for one made on my apron 😂
I wonder what a laminate top would do to help/ hurt those reults. Id really like to male an MDF table with laminate. I should make test pieces
do you know if the Powertec clamps work in the same dovetail grooves as the Microjig clamps?
Curious about 3/4 inch HDPE - with & without upper support above the dovetail. Great 👍 demo.
Yea I should have tried that out as well
Elevated hardwood failure likely from grain structure. Excellent video.
Thanks! Yea I absolutely agree. Surprised me though!
It seems like the alternating grain structure of the plywood provided more support where the ash just did not have that last bit of support
There was no "likely" about it.
I think the second test simulates using regular t-track hold downs in a dovetail groove.
You did not make the recommended "pre cut" with the smaller bit before running the dovetail through?
a decent test but at no time do I push like that on my clamps. good job
I think if you finish the MDF with a 50/50 mixture of polyurethane and mineral spirits if would add quite a bit of strength to the MDF.
Very well may
As long as your using it like its meant to be used and stay away from the edges when possible it probably doesn't even need the extra, the top of the clamp bar will make contact with your part before it ever gets to the point of failure, giving you don't spontaneously trip and grab the clamp lol
MDF is garbage and should never be used.
Grain direction was an important factor for the ash. It may have held up better if you went perpendicular to the grain.
Who makes a workbench out of MDF anyway? I was about to order a bunch of T Track but after seeing this I think I'm just going to route out some dovetails in my existing bench and call it a day.
So my clamps are slipping, any idea why that would happen? Context, I have my dovetail clamp in the dovetail groove (plywood) and it's clamped to the workpiece as tight as I can. When I put sideways pressure on the workpiece (toward the clamps) they slip back. Thoughts?
Uh, I honestly don’t know. I have never had one do that and have no clue why it would. I’m sorry I’m not more of a help
Interesting to see if the waterproof MDF is stronger.
Assuming I go with plywood, what finish do you recommend that won't clog tracks but will give a durable surface? (I suppose you could finish and then cut grooves but then grooves wouldn't be protected.)
If I’m being honest, I don’t really finish my shop project stuff that often. But, they have wiggle room in the groves for the clamps so I wouldn’t worry too much about sticking. Also, you could use wax in the groves for protection and ease of sliding.
@@PenaltyBoxWoodshop OK, thanks
I was thinking about that too, thanks for the response. Probably it will be easier and avoid that problem if the polyurethane is sprayed instead of brushed in.
Curious how the MDF fares clamped mid-board instead of at the end since the failure looked to start at the end of the MDF piece.
Yea, I’m sure it would be more stable but not much more. MDF just isn’t build for that type of strength I don’t think
Considering how many of the setups use the 4"-square groove pattern, the mid-board failure should look pretty much like the end failure.
I can misuse anything to the point of failure. Take my first marriage, for example. The system was not designed to be used like a press. It is a clamp which uses moderate force to temporarily hold materials together. I am sure that you wont need to turn these down so hard that you break the dovetail groove or mark your wood surface with the pad. MIne work fine in MDF for light work and in void free ply for heaver applications. I would not use solid wood due to the greater potential for warping.
I suspect if you retest the Ash with the dovetail across the grain the wood will perform much better. The plywood looks like Baltic Birch and it has more layers than ordinary plywood so I expected i to be a solid performer.
Agreed on all accounts
El sistema microjig son para hacer mas facil la sujecion de piezas ala hora de hacer un armado. en ningun momento estan inventadas para fuerzas tan extremadamente exageradas. para mi concepto es el mejor invento de sujecion que hasta el momento se hayan ideado.
When you were testing the ash, the grove was with the grain. Any natural wood would have broken. The plywood didn't break because of the alternating layers. Nice vid.
Thank you
What type of plywood were you using.. could not tell.. was this the 'commercial' plywood like get at Lowe's/Home Depo ??
You're not likely to find plywood of that quality at a big box store. They're more into roof sheathing and the like. That was very high quality plywood used in the test -- 13 plies and no voids. It ain't cheap but it is quality!
Most of my clamping is what you call unconventional. I don't use tracks at all - they are never where I want them. So when I need to clamp, I just drill a hole through the spoil board and use threaded inserts - the ones with the large disc and three prongs that bite into the wood. By putting one of those below I can drop an M8 screw through and wind it up as tight as I want. screws are far superior to clamps as they don't interfere with the movement of the CNC.
Might just be me but at the beginning before starting the test it appears that the MDF sample has a much looser groove. Looks can be deceiving but I noticed it immediately.
I didn’t notice that but anything is possible. I cut them all the exact same way with the same setup
This is like watching karate board breaking. You put two clamps an inch or two from the slot. In the other where could the clamp go? Thru the wood you were clamping. Of course it held up. Ever see a karate guy break a board against the grain? Or stack the bricks without spacing the blocks, they break like dominoes. Granted in most applications there is a board directly against the clamp base but you apparently can not do glue ups . Unless you use some funky clamping like putting the clamps on top rather than the bottom. I have this system and for handwork it’s great an infinity adjustable workbench side clamp. But this test was silly.
The second scenario, or the setup you referred to as unconventional, is actually exactly what microjig promoted as pipe clamp replacement setup, where they have a clamping board mounted vertically on the side of the table and used the clamp to push the clamped object laying horizontally on the table. It is arguably worse than your setup because they rotated the clamp claw 180 degrees, almost like when you applied backward pressure. Is it possible that you could do a test in that setup?
I could defiantly check it out. The fact is though if the clap is clamping some down on top of the dado then it will not break. I’m trying to picture what you are referring too but I’m having trouble understanding. I’ll have to look into it
@@PenaltyBoxWoodshop in this video, go to 3:05. th-cam.com/video/QvGGxucDhzA/w-d-xo.html
@@PenaltyBoxWoodshopDid you see the setup in the video that I referred to in the reply below?
Ohhhh I just saw that. That’s interesting for sure! I’ll need to try that out!
One thing different about your tests, and gives an unfair disadvantage to the MDF is that you did NOT clamp the material near the front, like you did for plywood and ash. I think it would have failed anyway, but you also gave advantage to the plywood and ash tests with that clamping scenario.
Try some penetrating epoxy on that MDF dovetail groove. It will make it stronger, firmer, and wear longer.
Sorry to say that you are not comparing apples with apples, in that not each piece is clamped/held the same. All the hold downs are in different positions, giving a different perspective.
You had more leverage with the MDF because IT had a much bigger base.
Second test you had the clamps right next to the slot wich also resulta in less leverage then with the MDF. Tests were not the same with all the wood
Either way, if your clamping something down regularly, it will not break.
Jesse, I was halfway through my own tests when I found your video. It answered some questions, but raised some more. I have tried to answer them in my own video. As would be expected, the cross-grain groove in hardwood is super-strong. I incorporated a link to your video -- I hope that's okay. th-cam.com/video/OkUGXMGRUNU/w-d-xo.html
Thanks brother! Excellent follow up video!
Try it cross grain… I notice that the dovetail was with the grain.
This is just me being the cheap bastard that I am, but has anyone successfully made any of the dovetail hardware themselves? The green things with the threaded inserts in them.
Clamps holding down plywood were too close to center of plywood under test. They should have been placed at the furthest point from dovetail cut. Test should have included testing on a dovetail cut across ash wood grain.
I'm kind of worried about building a Microjig workbench. It's an investment of time and money that can be accidently destroyed easily in one second. Got to take extra precautions. I really like it, though.
If you look at what you're clamping down on, it's the upper piece and not the piece the dovetail is in.
Have you tried Just For Men's in your beard? Just a thought...
Ordered some today! Can’t wait!!! 😂
Sir your tests are flawed. Take a look at how you clamped the mdf compared to how you clamped the plywood. The mdf only had 1 clamped at the front farther away. The plywood had 2 clamps nearer to the cutout. This might be why the plywood held better. Not bad but like you said, no one would use that system that way.
Thanks for the input! Just did my best to test them the only way I knew how.
Different plywoods use different glues in manufacture be interesting to see if anyone knows which is the strongest plywood
You said “to see if I can’t make it fail.” I thought you were trying to see if you COULD make it fail.
I did. I couldn’t unless I set it up the way that I did to make it fail……
@@PenaltyBoxWoodshop I think you maybe missed my point. After watching your video after your initial comment, I concluded that what you meant was that you were testing the three “to see if I CAN make it fail.” My comment relates to what I thought was some rather confusing grammar, but you know better than I what you meant to say, so let’s leave it at that.
Okay
A dovetail is intrinsically weak compared to a
t-slot.
There was nothing surprising about any of these results. MDF is garbage. I laugh every time I see people putting pocket holes in this crap. The plywood held out the best because it has different grain directions glued together. The solid wood failed because wood is very weak along its grain. You should have tested the wood with the slot cut cross grain to see if it was stronger.
Your test proves nothing. Using equipment in extreme conditions and with movements that are not expected in any job does not help at all. Should be processed by the company.
You used it incorrectly. So dishonest. You should be ashamed.
A dovetail is intrinsically weak compared to a
t-slot.