“I think there’s something inside human beings, we need myths, and we need rituals. And we need them so badly that we will come up with bad ones if we don’t have good ones.” Eric saying this is precisely my belief, and why I’m choosing to use fiction as my written vehicle for the things I want other people to experience, but also to experience it myself as the story I’m writing unfolds. I love that story is the most relatable avenue to sublime truths, and I think Christians need to recapture this method of not only expressing, but even *teaching* the Gospel. And it doesn’t have to be done through strict, didactic allegory.
Just now putting together that Dane Ortlund is your brother. Wow, I’m slow😂 anyway, Gentle and Lowly was one of my favorite reads of the summer. Also, loving this conversation!
Gentle and Lowly ...I hope it becomes a classic. I am yet to fully understand it, even though I can follow the ideas. Our advocate and our intercessor...my gosh.
Enjoyed you guys geeking out about The Office! That discussion about angels, paganism, cosmology - how interestingly bizarre. Thanks for sharing this conversation, its been very enlightening and fun. Keep up the great content, very grateful.
Do you know who else is into zombie talk? Jonathan Pageau. Maybe the three of you could have that conversation together. Excellent discussion. I’ll be here for more.
... I too have a couple of brothers (my older brother died some 10 years ago, and - 2 sisters, so - four of us left, and here in Northern Protestant Europe - Scandinavia - the faith in Jesus Christ has almost ceased to exist, and - I'm the one single believer among us four - and the rest of my family on both sides, I suppose. My two sons, both grown men, aren't in Christ - yet! My wife seems to embrace some degree of our faith. I pray for them all every single morning... And - will continue to till my last breath. Thank you Kind regards Kim
This has been really helpful because I've been thinking a lot lately about liturgy and tradition. It sounds terrible to say, but I've somewhat thumbed my nose at singing at church, communion or other "traditional" things the church has done. I've always been so individualistic with thoughts like "God is just as present at home as he is in church" or "what is the significance taking communion?". Eric nailed it for me when he talked about taking the bread and wine and just trying to remember that Jesus died for us. It has struck me lately that something is missing. Eric made an EXCELLENT point about Super Bowl or Christmas. We DO have secular traditions. What traditions, as a Christian do I have and what do they mean and what do I get out of them? I recently heard an Anglican say that when they take communion they bow down and hold onto a rail. I haven't been able to stop thinking about this. It just seems so meaningful. The act of bowing down just says so much about who God is and who I am in relation. I big part of me craves that. It makes sense to me why in Europe they build huge beautiful churches with statues and stained glass windows. When you go to church you really GO TO CHURCH. In the west we are so individualistic that we put chairs in a high school or movie theatre. I'll stop typing now. This has just been so helpful and Eric really nailed it when he talked about Orthodoxy and Catholicism pulling people away. I feel it even tho I'm strongly in the protestant, evangelical camp. Thanks!
Alex I can really relate to your comments. I think a ton of people are feeling this longing for more substance, rigor, rootedness, etc. in our worship. This is something I am really interested in pursuing in future videos: how do we best meet that need?
I relate to your comment, too, Alex. But the good news is that you CAN be both Anglican and evangelical (see John Stott, J. I. Packer, Wesley, Wilberforce, etc). I got confirmed at an Anglican Church last year and I feel like the best of my evangelical upbringing has been met with both the richness of the ancient liturgies and Reformation-based theology. Hope you might find that encouraging.
Thanks for this! I started reading Everything the Bible Says About Angels and Demons, wanting to learn more about demons. Learning so much more about how God has used angels was a pleasant surprise. It definitely makes me happy as well. 🙂
This is good convo, not through it all but one of the most exiting knowledge wise experiences in my faith was seeing how obscured but regularly present the heavenly hosts are early in creation. I've since then tuned into other teachers of the word. In my most mundane earthly understanding I've tuned into the bible as a communication to the pagan pantheistic truth that was regularly present throughout the world. In my more fantastical understanding I think about hidden histories and the conflicts that other created beings had with God that we echo. I think what's exciting is how much validity it gave to ancient perceptions I traditionally viewed as just being false tales completely fashioned from nothing but the imaginations of man.
Good point. Do you like Mike Heiser? The fact that Christians DO believe that other "gods" exist cuts Dawkins at the hamstrings. We don't deny their existence. We rebel against their influence, their works, and their ways by the power of the Holy Spirit.
I just discovered this channel today but clicked on this video as soon as I saw Eric! Eric taught me Hebrew Poetry and Literature back when he was at Briercrest! Cool! This was really cool to see. :)
Re: Angels and Demons, I'd recommend looking at Dr. Michael Heiser's works in that area (he has a few books on those topics). He also has a great video you can find on TH-cam called the Jewish Trinity.
Thanks! I have a video on it entitled "Did Satan's Fall Corrupt Nature?" the video description has further links. Let me know if you have trouble finding it.
One point about Angels, if you are actively seeking out Angels something is wrong to start with, Angel means messenger, Angels are messengers from God. YOU don’t seek out the messenger, the messenger is supposed to seek YOU out. Now that doesn’t automatically mean that just because you think an Angel has sought you out, that it actually was an Angel sent by God. You gotta be really careful about these things.
You might be on to something, it might be the case that there is this part of reality out there that we are not admitting or taking into account. And this part of reality is known to alot of people, and if Christians don’t relate to it properly or even admits it, people might fall back to pagan practices, because at least they admit this reality exists, even though their understanding of it is wrong.
I love your show, Gavin. And your brother is wonderful, as are you. But you guys are trying too hard. You both sound out your longing for the Eucharist, not the communion remembrance. It’s palpable. And angels? They are part of the grace-shot dimensional World. The stars are meant to shine, as part of the Real.
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“I think there’s something inside human beings, we need myths, and we need rituals. And we need them so badly that we will come up with bad ones if we don’t have good ones.”
Eric saying this is precisely my belief, and why I’m choosing to use fiction as my written vehicle for the things I want other people to experience, but also to experience it myself as the story I’m writing unfolds. I love that story is the most relatable avenue to sublime truths, and I think Christians need to recapture this method of not only expressing, but even *teaching* the Gospel. And it doesn’t have to be done through strict, didactic allegory.
Just now putting together that Dane Ortlund is your brother. Wow, I’m slow😂 anyway, Gentle and Lowly was one of my favorite reads of the summer.
Also, loving this conversation!
haha! Gentle and Lowly is amazing. I cannot say enough about it.
Gentle and Lowly ...I hope it becomes a classic. I am yet to fully understand it, even though I can follow the ideas. Our advocate and our intercessor...my gosh.
When I watched this a year or so ago I don’t think I realized everything you were saying here. Now I do. It’s facinating.
"My Brother and I Talk Theology"
Within the first two minutes: "What's the cringiest episode of The Office to you?"
Good to see brothers so passionately discussing subjects related to Christianity.
I loved this conversation and it was a pleasure to meet you, Eric, last Saturday at Windsor Baptist Church, Belfast.
Enjoyed you guys geeking out about The Office! That discussion about angels, paganism, cosmology - how interestingly bizarre. Thanks for sharing this conversation, its been very enlightening and fun. Keep up the great content, very grateful.
Do you know who else is into zombie talk? Jonathan Pageau. Maybe the three of you could have that conversation together.
Excellent discussion. I’ll be here for more.
Jonathan Pageau would indeed be fantastic
I think chats with your brother could be an ongoing series! Keep up the good work.
More of this, please. 💯😊 It's like a debriefing. Balanced. Generous.
More of these, please! I have yet to hear Eric's perspective and it not be profitable! Thanks, guys!
Eric is really one of my favorite people. Thanks, Stephen!
... I too have a couple of brothers (my older brother died some 10 years ago, and - 2 sisters, so - four of us left, and here in Northern Protestant Europe - Scandinavia - the faith in Jesus Christ has almost ceased to exist, and - I'm the one single believer among us four - and the rest of my family on both sides, I suppose.
My two sons, both grown men, aren't in Christ - yet! My wife seems to embrace some degree of our faith.
I pray for them all every single morning... And - will continue to till my last breath.
Thank you
Kind regards Kim
Loving your channel! Keep going this is great!
Thanks Alex!
This has been really helpful because I've been thinking a lot lately about liturgy and tradition. It sounds terrible to say, but I've somewhat thumbed my nose at singing at church, communion or other "traditional" things the church has done. I've always been so individualistic with thoughts like "God is just as present at home as he is in church" or "what is the significance taking communion?". Eric nailed it for me when he talked about taking the bread and wine and just trying to remember that Jesus died for us.
It has struck me lately that something is missing. Eric made an EXCELLENT point about Super Bowl or Christmas. We DO have secular traditions. What traditions, as a Christian do I have and what do they mean and what do I get out of them?
I recently heard an Anglican say that when they take communion they bow down and hold onto a rail. I haven't been able to stop thinking about this. It just seems so meaningful. The act of bowing down just says so much about who God is and who I am in relation. I big part of me craves that. It makes sense to me why in Europe they build huge beautiful churches with statues and stained glass windows. When you go to church you really GO TO CHURCH. In the west we are so individualistic that we put chairs in a high school or movie theatre.
I'll stop typing now. This has just been so helpful and Eric really nailed it when he talked about Orthodoxy and Catholicism pulling people away. I feel it even tho I'm strongly in the protestant, evangelical camp.
Thanks!
Alex I can really relate to your comments. I think a ton of people are feeling this longing for more substance, rigor, rootedness, etc. in our worship. This is something I am really interested in pursuing in future videos: how do we best meet that need?
@@TruthUnites can’t wait! 👍🏻
I relate to your comment, too, Alex. But the good news is that you CAN be both Anglican and evangelical (see John Stott, J. I. Packer, Wesley, Wilberforce, etc). I got confirmed at an Anglican Church last year and I feel like the best of my evangelical upbringing has been met with both the richness of the ancient liturgies and Reformation-based theology. Hope you might find that encouraging.
@@claire_leah9274 I’m tempted, trust me! 😉
Thanks for this! I started reading Everything the Bible Says About Angels and Demons, wanting to learn more about demons. Learning so much more about how God has used angels was a pleasant surprise. It definitely makes me happy as well. 🙂
I want to read that! Yeah, it's such an interesting topic, right? Happy new year to you and jake!!!!
This is good convo, not through it all but one of the most exiting knowledge wise experiences in my faith was seeing how obscured but regularly present the heavenly hosts are early in creation. I've since then tuned into other teachers of the word. In my most mundane earthly understanding I've tuned into the bible as a communication to the pagan pantheistic truth that was regularly present throughout the world. In my more fantastical understanding I think about hidden histories and the conflicts that other created beings had with God that we echo. I think what's exciting is how much validity it gave to ancient perceptions I traditionally viewed as just being false tales completely fashioned from nothing but the imaginations of man.
Good point. Do you like Mike Heiser? The fact that Christians DO believe that other "gods" exist cuts Dawkins at the hamstrings. We don't deny their existence. We rebel against their influence, their works, and their ways by the power of the Holy Spirit.
I just discovered this channel today but clicked on this video as soon as I saw Eric! Eric taught me Hebrew Poetry and Literature back when he was at Briercrest! Cool! This was really cool to see. :)
Very cool!
Great discussion! Love how you nerd out on The Office and then on angelology! Keep the great work!! God bless
I recognise that guy from somewhere
that beard is hard to miss, right? Miss you, Kate! :)
Re: Angels and Demons, I'd recommend looking at Dr. Michael Heiser's works in that area (he has a few books on those topics). He also has a great video you can find on TH-cam called the Jewish Trinity.
SO enjoyed this conversation! Is your (Gavin’s) paper on angels available somewhere to the public? Would love to also read it.
Thanks! I have a video on it entitled "Did Satan's Fall Corrupt Nature?" the video description has further links. Let me know if you have trouble finding it.
@@TruthUnitesthank you!
Comment for algorithm.
So Eric is Anglican, Dane is Presby and Gavin is Baptist.. am I on point?
One point about Angels, if you are actively seeking out Angels something is wrong to start with, Angel means messenger, Angels are messengers from God. YOU don’t seek out the messenger, the messenger is supposed to seek YOU out.
Now that doesn’t automatically mean that just because you think an Angel has sought you out, that it actually was an Angel sent by God. You gotta be really careful about these things.
Well said!
Surely angels are worthy for a bit of dulia.
Would you say that pentecostalism is helpful in this quest for a re-entchanted (biblical) cosmology ? (Asking as a Charismatic Christian)
from my vantage point, though I don't agree with everything in Pentecostalism, I'd say absolutely yes.
What denomination Eric belongs to?
You might be on to something, it might be the case that there is this part of reality out there that we are not admitting or taking into account. And this part of reality is known to alot of people, and if Christians don’t relate to it properly or even admits it, people might fall back to pagan practices, because at least they admit this reality exists, even though their understanding of it is wrong.
I love your show, Gavin. And your brother is wonderful, as are you. But you guys are trying too hard. You both sound out your longing for the Eucharist, not the communion remembrance. It’s palpable. And angels? They are part of the grace-shot dimensional
World. The stars are meant to shine, as part of the Real.
Comment for algorithm.