I love Hollis hot streak, because I am a gambling enthusiast. But please do Fred Bonaparte’s brain next, I have a test on the French Revolution soon and it would help. Maybe
You've done such good work with the mental worlds you've covered so far... heck, you opened up new ideas I hadn't even considered when watching PlayFrame's walkthrough of this game. Since you've gone over so many of the brains from Psychonauts 2, would you ever consider doing some of the mental worlds from the original game, or even Loboto's brain from the "Rhombus of Ruin"? As for my favorite mental world, it's a toss up between "PSI King's Sensorium" and "Cassie's Collection"... but you did an awesome job with both of them already! If we were willing to look at mental worlds from the original, no contest- my favorite would be Fred's mind (the "Waterloo World" level), with Gloria's Theater being a close second.
But the wedding also has numerous Bad Ideas attending as well, so there is a bit of truth to both the Lucretia attending and him thinking that marriage was a bad idea since it cost him everything when both turned to tragedy
@matthewgillis393 it could also be retroactive feelings about the wedding - the memories of the wedding might turn bittersweet under a more normal (for lack of a better term) significant others death, but in Bob's case, he might have retroactively repainted the marriage as doomed from the start. Essentially, letting the pain of Helmut's death stain and taint the memories of their wedding, and retroactively calling it a bad idea even as Helmuts death and their wedding being completely unrelated events aside from the people involved. "Better to never have loved Helmut at all than feel the pain of his loss" sort of mentality. Don't forget, memories are not immutable, they can and do change and can be tainted by current feelings.
I just wanna point out that the last Bulb Bob says that he "doesn't want to ruin the ceremony" when it's his *own* wedding, Bob's self-esteem is so low that he thinks he was unwanted at his own wedding
I think Truman DID try to help him. Remember the “What is this number? I’m not calling some stranger” line? I think Truman TRIED to get Bob to see someone, he just wasn’t receptive to it then.
So if Bob is controlling the plants with his psychic powers, and one that gives Raz permission to enter his mind, that would mean that subconsciously a part of Bob wants Raz to help him but he's too ashamed to admit it out loud, or maybe he's so depressed he's not even aware of that part. Interestingly, the second memory vault shows Trunan crying as he's firing Bob, so he clearly did feel a lot of pain over having to do it, despite the rest of Bob's mind depicting him as callous for it. Given the tomatoes are what you throw back to damage the boss, and that Helmut's love is ultimately the memory that helps Bob reject the moth, that could also be intentional symbolism.
An addition to Truman, if you hear the audio it sounds like Truman gave Bob a number to either a therapist or support group. I dont see it as Truman giving up, but more recognizing that Bob needed help he couldn't give and firing Bob so he could take a step away and focus on his grief and underlying unhealthy coping issues
Wait what the fuck do you mean you can throw the tomatoes back? I spent the entire fight just spamming psi-shots at the tomatoes and the boss itself while hitting rockets back.
also the bulb bobs help you too, which could also be bob subconsciously supporting you, AND he also doesnt exactly tell you to not give him the seeds, hes a bit hesitant once but otherwise hes just sorta confused, and he also knows the moth is wrong and tries to get himself out of the coccoon
The most amazing part of Bob's Bottles is that it's... the rare RARE portrayal of alcoholism as a symptom rather than the problem itself. If this was done by less experienced, less empathetic, less worldly writer the whole mental landscape would be about the booze. With cartoon booze demons chasing and tempting Bob with a good time. If someone told me in advance Psychonauts 2 would touch on this topic I would've immediately clenched until I saw it for myself. However... no. This is a beautiful exploration of not just how someone wound up deep in substance abuse but WHY. It's incredibly human.
Psychonauts is a step above the usual in terms of treating mental health issues responsibly. I've been psychotically paranoid and I can't think of a better depiction of what that felt like than the Milkman Conspiracy.
@@discordlexia2429 I'm glad you didn't feel insulted by that, actually. Psychonauts 1 definitely felt more like it was laughing at rather than with people with issues, or drawing more heavily from pop culture's portrayal of mental illness. Yet Tim Schafer's writing always ultimately sides with the misfits, so I think even then a lot of people with issues (including myself) were drawn to that game.
@@TheMidnighttea Because of how psychology has changed - When Psychonots 1 came out psychologists *were* there to 'fix' people - our knowledge of psychology has changed - we no longer try to 'fix' people - thus in psychonots 2 came out they did a better job - the game improved because our knowledge of how the mind worked improved. Double fine did their work prior to making either game, Psychonauts 1 was unfortunately a product of the times, but the good thing about time is it always moves forwardy
@@TheMidnighttea It’s true, yes, that the game did laugh at them in some ways, but it’s also because they were making deliberate choices about how to portray the characters; they’ve talked about this, that one of the reasons they went the way they did with the asylum patients is that they wanted to make it clear that the asylum patients weren’t meant to be ‘real’ people. They wanted to make it so it didn’t feel like they were making fun of real people with these mental illnesses, so they made them seem more extreme than reality, and still offer these characters sympathy despite this. So it actually ties into the point @Pacattack25 made, that how we treat mental illness in media has changed. They were doing their best to be respectful of real people in their own ways as well, while now we have more knowledge and experience in how portraying these things works.
Kinda surprised It wasn't brought up but in the second bottle in the ship section, there's a trail of dark thoughts that lead to a figment of a rope. Considering how Bob has been handling everything I think it's certainly... interesting in what it implies...
Another detail that's even more... something, is that the dark thought actually start on the figment of a rope and lead to a figment of a treasure... Maybe as if the Rope could lead to Treasure...
Fun fact about the projections in Bob's mind, if you use Clairvoyance on them they all see Raz the exact same way that Bob does. This proves that they are just his own words projected out of those he loves.
The reason Raz is able to get so much done is because he has a fresh perspective on things. He's also much more aggressive he will do things himself to get you to confront your demons when others would just give up. It's literally a case of Raz being too stubborn to give up on helping an individual.
I think the "dead soldier" comment the Tia flower makes is referencing a thing you do with alcohol called "finishing off a wounded soldier", where you drink the rest of a bottle of alcohol somebody else started on earlier.
29:53 "Dead soldier" is also a slang term for an emptied bottle. And Helmut, being the performer he is, could be associated with tomatoes thrown at the stage for a bad performance, reflecting how Bob likely feels like his poor performance dealing with Maligula is what led to his husband's apparent death. The Helmut-cactus throwing these tomatoes is Bob projecting his self-blame onto the image of his husband, as if Helmut blames Bob for letting him die. The cactus' last line is Bob's subconscious desperately trying to rationalize Helmut's apparent death as him not actually loving him and leaving of his own volition, trying to sever the ties of love to avoid being hurt by the loss. The Helmut-cactus saying something that Bob knows is absolutely not true to any capacity is what brings him to snap out of the lies he's been telling himself.
I think the moth could also be a reference to mothballing. He still wants these relationships, these memories, but he can't bring himself to face them, so he's essentially mothballed his life. He's put everything on hold for some possible future day where they no longer hurt him.
And as for the comment on the Psychonauts not looking after the mental health of their founders, I think it's precisely because they were so legendary in the organization. They couldn't directly ask for help because they felt they needed to maintain an appearance of strength for the people below them, while their subordinates didn't feel comfortable initiating such a conversation with someone so far above them. They also couldn't rely on each other after the battle with Maligula because they were all too damaged to help. Ford's psyche was fractured, the parts of Cassie that cared about other people were locked away, Helmut was just a brain in a jar that everyone thought was dead, Bob was already beginning down his depressive spiral and Compton was far too anxious and self defeating to feel like he could be any help. They were the only ones who could help each other, but none of them were in a position to really help anyone until their own problems were dealt with.
@@christophernugent8492 Oh right, Otto exists. Honestly, I don't think so. He didn't have any problems of his own, but we've seen that he isn't exactly the most empathetic soul. I don't think he has the skills, the interest or the mindset to use his psychic abilities for therapeutic purposes.
@@screamingcactus1753 well i'm sure if he really tried he could find a way, he does seem to care, he's just too focused on other things. even if he is not the most empathetic he's not uncaring he just... felt he had better things to do i'm sure to try and help EVERYONE rather just some people
In defense of Truman, Bob isn't necessarily the most reliable narrator in that specific memory. Truman may have tried to help him, he talks about being handed a phone number. Family members of recovering addicts are advised to keep themselves safe and well, which requires keeping boundaries with the addict in question, and depending on how bad things get may mean distancing oneself. Bob references people getting hurt, he may have become dangerous to work around and thus couldn't stay at the motherlobe in the same capacity. I can't say Truman necessarily handled the situation in the best way, but I don't blame him
Also, if his relationship with his daughter is any indicator, Truman isn't exactly the best at communicating his feelings to others, even when they are the closest of family.
the way the plant moves to place the door on Bobs forhead and turn him around almost seems like an intervention, like something a group of friends would do to try and help him. i get the feeling that the plants are just as impacted by Bobs condition as Bob himself is, and so they want to help Bob, not as a force, but as his friends
Some of my favorite moments in Psychonauts 2 were seeing Bob and Helmut as a couple. When I finished the game, I was worried about what would happen to Helmut when Gristol was put back in his own body. I was overjoyed to find that Helmut was given one of the brain balls and was going on a journey with Bob to find Helmut’s body.
My favorite part of the game is in this level when you get Helmut's seed. You walk down the same aisle Bob did and you hear his vows. I always found it interesting after this world when Helmut reunites with Bob he says "It's me, Bobbi, it's your PSY King" and Bob instantly knows it's him. One of Helmut's mental vaults (the one that shows him meeting Ford) has a poster that just says Helmut Fullbear, not PSY King. I may be wrong but I don't think PSY King is a stage name, it might be Bob's pet name for him
I view that one vine as Bob's subconscious way of asking for help. He figured that Raz wants to help him, but outwardly rejects and even attacks Raz. But then you get that one vine. It's Bob pretty much begging for help, even though he outwardly rejects it.
This video just reminded me that it's a crime that this game didn't win any awards at the '21 Game Awards, especially in Best Narrative and Art Direction
As someone who's dealt with intoxicated people throughout life, I've had a bolt lock put on my bedroom door in the past, because the drunk individual I had to deal with wasn't really violent as he was kinda annoying and I hated him barging in and annoying me. Also I lost a wonderful family friend in a drunk driving incident and because I didn't feel comfortable being around people in that state, I missed my last opportunity to hug the guy, he was a good man and things like that stay with me. But I'm also thankful I've seen what Alcohol can do and made a mental note to not go down that path and stick with drinking soda.
Two things, besides of course thank you for another great informative video: 1) The front door to the greenhouse, the one you go through before starting Bob's intro cutscene, is patterned like a leaf but shaped like a coffin, probably meaning Bob is just waiting to die like his mother did, alone in the greenhouse from drinking. 2) The "Another dead soldier" like in Tia plant is probably not meaning actual soldiers but using it in the older slang meaning either an empty or unfinished can/bottle of beer. In fact almost all of the mom plants lines are references to alcohol. Things like "let me know if this is too hot for ya" (of something to that effect) references liqueur served by itself cuz strong booze on its own can have a 'burn' to it. It'd be another way of proving that the plant monsters are basically the opposite of reality. Truman being a fire-breathing dragon without a heart when the Real Truman cares very much for family as seen with him and his daughter, Helmut being a mean spiteful voice when he was really the kindest and most loving of the Psychic Six and Tia, the mother that died alone in a greenhouse trying to hide her problems from her son, being a loud and encouraging source of a desire to drink.
I'll never forget playing this world for the first time. I was drinking and I remember slowly setting the can down to give this world my full attention when I realized what, exactly, his mother had been doing in the greenhouse. The bottles in the kitchen made it pretty obvious, especially when paired with his drinking as an adult. It made me feel seen in a very uncomfortable way.
There's an interesting note to Bob's drinking; someone pointed out that he's drinking a form of alcohol that's been created from fermenting mushrooms. This is another significant thing, as it's mentioned in-game that Helmut hated mushrooms, to which Bob simply says, "I know." So, it could be seen as him punishing himself for failing to save his husband, and such.
I noticed in the Cutting the Roots memory vault, Truman Zanotto in that picture of him firing Bob does not look angry as Bob portrays in the second bottle or on the island. His face looks like it radiates concern, almost in regret. I think Truman tried what he could to get Bob help (a possible phone number for a therapist [the stranger]), but felt like he had no other choice or didn't bother. I realized that we never heard what Truman said to Bob, but only what Bob said back to him. This means we are missing context of Truman's extent of trying to reach him or even that he was as malicious as Bob claims him to be. I played (and completed) this game on pre-release. I enjoyed every minute! Seeing now that the DoubleFine Team did their homework on these topics grants me more appreciation for their game! I thank you for your explanations and expertise. I would also love to see your take on the organization's flaws.
The more I take in Bob's Bottles, the more I find myself relating to it. Although not one for one, one of the differences being that I never dealt with alcoholism, the stages of depression shown are something I've dealt with. I also appreciate that something as ugly and heavy as depression was represented in such beautiful plant allegories. Honestly, this stage is nothing short of amazing.
My take on the falling out between Truman and Bob is that Truman did try to help, with the phone number to Alcoholics Anonymous and perhaps even giving him extra chances before the firing took place, but Bob refused to be separated from his only coping mechanism, leaving Truman no choice but to let Bob go. Also, the Truman flower's attack can't be countered and can only be avoided, symbolizing how Bob might have accepted the firing as (at least partially) his own fault.
Another thing about the boss fight is how you can reflect their attacks back at them, except Truman's because unlike the other 2 that happened from things beyond his control, him getting fired was for the most part his doing with his downward spiral. It's even shown that Truman did try to get him help and would probibly give him his job back if he got clean.
I love how the the husbands minds are complete opposite interms of mood while helmut's goes from happy (reuniting his friends) To sad (maligula) Back to happy (clarifications) To bob's that goes from Sad (death of his mother and fired from his job) To happy (his love life) And back to sad (The memonstria)
They did compliment each other very well. Bob being in this well of depression and dredging for the scraps of his joy, and Helmut taking back in so much of what he loves that it overwhelms him, they’re two extremes that needed closure. Helmut came to grips with one horrific fear of neglect and betrayal knowing his friends were waiting for him, and Bob realized how the greatest outlet of joy he ever experienced isn’t just a farm for more tragedy.
@@Mecceldorf on the topic of Bob's bottles and Him and Helmut I love how Helmut says "YOUR psy king" giving the feeling like that was a pet name given by Bob
Loved loved loved this stage, felt on par with the asylum inmates' stages from the first game for me. Characters that are just depressingly dysfunctional and yet treated with sympathy and kindness are so rare and I eat it up always. The mood was just so overwhelmingly raw and crushing, wish I could experience it for the first time again! I love all the subtle double entendres that referenced all his problems in the dialogue...my favorite detail is how much bigger Helmut's wedding cake topper is in comparison to Bob, completely dwarfing him, put on a pedestal to an almost unhealthy degree. So when that support network is gone...Bob's gone, too. I also just love how sad and GAY it is, like in Helmut's world you have figments of them together suggesting it, and I thought it was just going to be another one of those "oh yeah we have a ~confirmed gay character~ (only shows it in extreme subtext shoved to the side)" type things, but NO. There's a god damn WEDDING, explicit as explicit can be. Thank you, Double Fine.
i really loved the moment in the final battle where bob snaps out of it because the plant helmet said he didn't love him. I feel like there are times when the bad thoughts have become so ingrained they become like, comically evil and it snaps you out of whatever you're feeling when you're more clearly understanding what you're thinking? Like even though helmet wasn't there, the constant love and support they gave each other when raz helped him remember helmet, THAT'S what helped him. How when Bob was finally in a state of mind to remember what their love was TRULY like and the thoughts that had been plaguing him while intoxicated, caused a complete dissonance. It's crazy how helmet's death was what caused him to spiral but it's helmet's life that snapped him out of it, I'm so happy they got a happy ending because their story was so touching.
One thing that still confuses me about Bob is his relation to Truman - Truman is his nephew, but we never see or hear Bob talk about having a sister or brother, similarly to how Truman doesn't have any photos of his wife and parents around - just Lili (this is understandable since these characters have nothing to do with the story taking place but it still would've been nice to see them). And he obviously doesn't have any memory vaults, pictures, or figments around that could indicate him having a sibling or having a sibling that passed away after having Truman. He seems to be an only child - and a very geeky, band kid at that (the 'late for my recital' bit, helps connect him musically to Helmut since in the PSI King Sensorium he was the symbol of his sense of hearing - very important to a musician). It's also heavily implied that Bob found his mother's body in the greenhouse when she didn't come in for dinner - having spent an entire night and day outside the house, culminating in a very traumatic memory indeed for a young man.
I've just realized that the presence of the photos of Bob's father could indicate another result - divorce. A divorce would perfectly explain why there are no photos of Bob's sibling - each parent kept one kid, Bob was already close to his mom before so he was the one she kept while the other went with dad, her husband leaving her and taking one of her children with him would also qualify as a viable cause for her alcoholism. It would still mean that either a) Bob's father died before Tia's funeral which is why he wasn't there or b) no longer cared enough about his ex-wife to show up to her funeral - preventing Trumen's parent from going as well. More speculation - given the time period the game seems to be set in sometimes, when Bob was a child it probably would've been seen as very shameful for her to be a divorced single mother - let alone an alcoholic and a psychic (which it seems like Bob didn't know about either until his own psychic abilities acted up after the funeral).
@@veilvillage9873 There’s also another option, while that also makes a very good point that it could be divorce, in one of Tia’s houses, there’s a picture of a kid who doesn’t quite look like how bob was drawn in his pictures in the Vaults, implying that it may have been his brother. I can’t find the picture at the moment, but the boy has square glasses and wavy hair, if I remember correctly.
@@StarryOak76 I'll take any excuse to play Bob's Bottles again - once final exams are over that is, it still seems strange to me how we don't know much about Trumen's connection to Bob - I mean, given he has the Zanotto name so it's more likely that Bob had a brother (and possibly a non-psychic one at that). I'll look around once I get the chance, thank you.
Bob always resonated with me. While I never had to deal with alcoholism and not even finding his level too intriguing personally, I could always understand and feel what he would say about himself and made others say for him. As someone who was professionally diagnosed with a major depressive episode and MDD, the feeling of “we talked and hung out because we felt bad” or “because they had connections to someone useful” is something very familiar to me. Not being able to trust new people despite wanting connections, not wanting them to leave but not wanting to come along out of fear of getting hurt again. As well as associating a person with one action or sentence alone (“you’re fired”)… Yeah, I could quite feel that. I deadass cried the first time I walked down the aisle and heard Bob’s speech at the wedding. His relationship with Helmut is just something so wholesome and I’m sure that after he was lost in the battle, Bob felt as if a part of himself got lost alongside him. I think that’s also way he says that “Bob” is dead. It’s like he doesn’t feel like his old self and not deserving of being around others. They all only cared for him because of Helmut anyways, right? While not having had any such strong romantic relationships myself, I still understand the feeling quite well. So, while I may not like his level very much, Bob himself is - emotionally - one of my top favorite characters in the entire game. Thank you for reading and thank you for this great in depth analysis of a beloved character
Fun fact! The term for Barfly in polish is actually Bar moth! I wonder if thats connected to why they chose a moth for his self protection from relationships. I’ve gotta admit my favorite moment in this, beyond, well, all of it… I should say, my favorite _little_ moment of this level was recognizing the song that’s always playing when you boat around in the sea of alcohol. I recognized it as a very famous sailor song, but I couldn’t remember what it was called, just that it’s a famous song… the song’s name, when I remembered it, punched me in the face with how clever it is. What Do You Do With A Drunken Sailor. That’s just such a clever little mean joke that they never point out explicitly, and I love it so much!
I also think it's neat that the moths have a child Bob's voice, showing that his wounded inner chld is trying to protect him, stemming from his own loss with his father. We dont see much about his dad, but clearly that was the starting point with his fear of relationships which we see in his vows about originally seeing his feelings of love as weeds that need pulling. I also love how Helmut's plant was a cactus, the one hardiest for thriving in the isolated desert island environment of Bob's mental world.
One thing I always thought was interesting about this level is the entrance into it. Like you mentioned, the plant lets Raz sneak in and gives him permission to enter Bob's mind, but obviously the plant can't actually move on its own, it's a channel for Bob's psychic talents. This combined with the fact that Bob silently but willingly lets Raz into his mind always made me feel like this was Bob's desire for help that he had difficulty voicing. Subconsciously, he did want someone to reach out to him and that's what the plant's actions are reflecting. It also makes more sense with Raz's push to ask for permission before entering anyone's minds in the sequel, as getting permission from a living plant to help Bob isn't asking Bob for permission, but if the vine is a psychic reflection of Bob's inner thoughts, then it's still Bob giving permission.
Bob's Bottles and Feast of the Senses were on a whole other level, man. Most of the levels were pretty stellar, but those two just succeeded on every possible level and were so beautifully done. Those are my picks for S tier, with the Milkman Conspiracy, Gloria's Theatre, and the Meat Circus from the first game.
First, Bob's Bottle might not have been my fav level, but I certainly appreciate the beauty in how it depicts Bob's decent into alcoholism. - Second, not sure if I thought about it before or not, but yeah... it's hard to ignore the disconnect between a literal agency full of people trained to help people like Bob, but none of them lift a finger to help even though they're living like hermits for years literally a five minute walk from their building and... you know... kinda the entire reason there's an agency in the first place. Granted, at least Truman's implied to have tried to give Bob a number for AA or similar.
It's one thing to pick the mind of a stranger and try to find the source of their problems to point them in the right direction. It's a whole other thing to do the same with a close friend, let alone family. I'm not defending their negligence, but sometimes the more you care about someone the harder it is to give them the help they truly need.
A. Psychonauts has to be one of my newest favorite games ever. This series helped introduce me to that love and actually a potential interest in psychology and helping people. While I dunno if that is the career path I will take, this has helped me learn about the troubles and ordeals people go through every day. B. The main overarching point and the moral I can see with the Psychic Seven is this: People don't heal or improve themselves alone. It's with other people. And yet, that's the hardest part with some of these cases, Bob Zanatto especially. We see it with ALL of the Psychic Seven. Ford Cruller shattered his mind and was a mentally broken man after losing Lucrecia, yet Raz is able to help him put himself together again and fix his past. Bob needed the support of people in his life, yet was isolated because of Truman and his own flesh and blood hurting and neglecting him, yet Raz was able to show him that there is SO much more that can be done, so many people who are able to show love and kindness to him. Compton and Cassie needed one another, they were strong together. Psi King, with Raz's help, was literally able to make himself whole again. And this is such a powerful message through the entire Psychonauts, including the antagonist and Raz, and I am truly in awe that your videos do such an amazing job in their analysis.
Notice how Bob's mind opens on a totally barren island, with no way to leave. He literally can't travel to the rest of his own mind. And notice what vehicle we use to break that barrier: the Psy door. This is the only time that door remains a physical object within a mind. It's literally the connection with another - empathy, symbolized in that door - that is crucial to accessing all these buried seeds
Thinking about bobs comment of “why are you all attacking me” lead me to believe that Truman didn’t just fire Bob, he might’ve tried to hold an intervention to try to help Bob, but after the news he was being fired, Bob just saw it as an attack
Only note, when the Tia plant says "just another dead soldier," during her attack it also means "just another empty bottle." A dead soldier is slang for an empty beer or liquor bottle, usually in reference to a night of binge drinking. So it's double meaning referencing her dead husband and her binge drinking (maybe triple meaning if it's Bob projecting his thoughts on her, since Helmut was also a 'dead soldier' in a way.)
I wanted to point this out: just like you said, Bob is psychically controlling the vine. This means that, deep down, he wants help, and probably always did, he just didn't know who or how to ask for it. This is why the vine let's Raz in. Because it's not being controlled by Bob consciously. It's basically just a reaction. When he was startled by the presence of someone, something he hadn't seen in years, his first reaction was to get rid of them. After Bob calms down a bit, his true feelings start to show: he truly craves help.
I love how before you even go into his mind, He can't outright ask you for help, he threatens you and sends you away, but the vine acts as him as well,asks you to help and lets you inside, Like how so many people will turn others away despite wanting to beg for help, but finding themselves unable to bring the words to their mouth, and when your finally inside his mind, He begs you not to leave
Fun fact, in my home country, there are several flowers commonly brought to or planted on graves... Carnations being one of them, Dahlias being another... And Marigolds are also often planted around graves - I believe last we visited Grandpa's grave, mom planted some Marigolds for him. And Granny had a slew of white and white/red carnations at her funeral. (Dahlias were out of season at the time I believe, plus granny didn't like them). So the fact that the three flowers present on the level also just so happen to be typical eastern european flowers associated with graves and grief is also an interesting paralel.
beat psychonauts 2 at least a dozen times, and this is still the one level i can't play without crying. the vows always get me, if i even make it that far without tears TwT
As a child of an alchohol addict for some time, this level hit so close to home. It's not easy seeing a loved one (or a fictional stranger for that matter) drowning their sorrows away to the detriment of their health. It's depressing but was handled in such a true-to-life way and I will always hold so much love for how respectfully the psychonauts team approaches its subject matter.
You should consider checking out the Rhombus of Ruin, it's a VT Psychonauts game and if I'm not mistaken you get to go back into Sasha's mind. However I think Dr. Loboto's mind in that game is the most interesting.
In regards to why the pscyhonauts didn't give Bob more empathy I think its important to mention that, sometimes, the people who are closest to you can be some of the most blind to your troubles. As for Truman, Bob's alcoholism is heavily implied to have physically harmed people. He was a *literal* danger to, not just himself, but to the other people at the motherlobe. Thats the reason he gave Bob a phone number. It was to give him help. Raz is also rather liberal with entering people's minds where as the psychonauts have a culture of being conservative with doing as such. And since the psychonauts try to get explicit permission from people to enter their minds I can assume that Bob didn't *give* that permission as we hear him specifically say "Help? I don't need help!" I think they did try to help him as much as they could but he just refused it because of the moth wanting to stop him from feeling anything at all.
They say repeatedly that Bob has no support systems... but he Did. We might only hear one half of the conversation, but its pretty clear that Truman was trying to get Bob some professional help. He only reason he fired bob because he was trapped in a terrible situation where he had to think of the safety of the company and Bob himself as well. But its not like Truman gave up on bob either. He sends letters and pics of his neice all the time. Signs that hes trying to reach out. But.... bob filters that all, and warps Truman's character down to two words. He Had a support system. People who cared and wanted to help.... but at the time, he pushed them all away. Edit: spelling
29:24 A person once told me about meditation, "I didn't get into this for being a nice person." A lot of people enter into psychology in general trying to pin down their own demons. A few of them remain right bonkers, too... Also, having psychic powers doesn't make you a good person. They could feel pushed into the job.
It’s likely a blend of the two in my opinion! They’re made to look a lot more like Tomatoes than Prickly Pears sans the spikes and in the fight he says “I’ve been hit with bigger tomatoes than that” it makes me think that the choice to make them appear as tomatoes was still intentional even though you’re right they probably also take inspiration, less on the symbolism side of things, and more on the botanical side of things from prickly pears. That’s just my opinion though!
Regarding Truman and the Psychonauts 'neglecting' Bob, I don't think they did (or at least willingly). we don't know how the organization's changed over time but I think Truman did whatever he could for Bob until there was a point he felt he had to take drastic measures, measures which pretty much failed. We only know Bob's side of the conversation and through his feeling of betrayal come to a certain conclusion over the situation, which isn't unreasonable as you'd hardly think rationally in that position. In the memory vault of the incident it looks like Truman's on the verge of tears as he fires Bob, so I don't think he wanted to do it but felt he had to to force him to get help as he was likely using "the job" as an excuse to avoid confronting his issues. As I said, Truman's attempt to force Bob to get help pretty much failed, but while in his greenhouse with only Raz, likely the first person he's had two way contact with in years (I suspect Truman might have sent him letters, which included pictures of Lillie, that Bob never replied to), his subconscious desire for help finally broke out as he wasn't able to hide behind being a member of the Psychic 6/7 and founder of the Psychonauts.
I remember when I first played the level a thing that got to me is that the moth sounds very child-like. It kinda made me think it's a defense mechanism he developed as a child and never grew out of. I dunno-
In the memory vault in the picture with small Bob laying in bed looking out the window it seems like the outline of the curtains pain a bottle and the house looks like bottle's lable. It's most probably just overthinking but it is a nice detail
Also, sorry for double commenting - I think I know why the Psychonauts organization was less empathetic than Raz. Think back to your own parents, grandparents etc. etc. "Depression? HAH! Get a job, that'll fix you right up." "ADHD? You're just lazy, grow up!" The heads of the psychonauts may represent that older generation. Coz even when I went to a psychiatrist for my depression as a teen? My depressive symptoms were dismissed by the MUCH older doctor, who just claimed I wanted to get drugs and am lying about my symptoms. My mother, who read a lot about psychology dismissed my self-isolation as me being an introvert. And even my current doctor, who couldn't be anywhere older than her 40's legally cannot diagnose me with ADHD coz I am over the age of 18 because my country has the USSR mentality of "ADHD is only prevalent in children, and by the age of 18 it stops." instead of understanding "masking" as a concept. Despite me flagging for all symptoms of ADHD in an adult. That's why RAZ can help. He's looking at this as a youngster. As someone from our age who understands struggling more than the adults who struggle. Coz they all think "I'm fine! I just need to focus on work. I just need to focus on family. I'm not allowed to struggle." Our generation saw the flaw in that mentality and instead allows ourselves to struggle and ask for help. Which is why I think it's in a sense social commentary that we as Raz can do more to help everyone, than the grown up Psychonauts. They are outdated and believe that an adult can't struggle.
I broke up with my girlfriend a month ago, we've been keeping in touch and we are still the best friends in the whole world; but sometimes it just hurts a lot to think that she just doesn't love me in the way she used to. And yesterday was one of the worst days; bescause i got drunk for the first time and I understood why so many people are looking forward to get shelter in alcohol, but then I felt overwhelmed by all the things I started to remember and WHY I got drunk. After all that I remembered Bob Zanotto, and I understand him a lot better. Finally I saw this video, it really help me a lot, thank you so much for everything, I love your videos by the way haha; but seriously, thank you! For everyone reading this, don't look after shelter in alcohol, drugs, sex or any of those things; the fallen gets harder everytime. (Sorry for bad english)
I think one of the greatest strengh of Bob in Psychonauts 2 is how, no matter how bad is situation may be, the game does not try to pin the blame or part of the blame on the fact that he was in a homo relationship. It would have been easy to create a character or a level based on homophobia, fear of invading spaces or other common psychological events reccurent among the LGBTQ community but the restraint the dev team showed really makes the relationship feels like more than just a subject they wanted to tackle.
I just love how the plants help Raz into his mind despite his outburst. perfect show of how subconsciously people want help despite outwardly being against it
the trees in you see when you first encounter the moth are (to me at least) clearly showing the "choice tree" where you have 3+ lines going verticle and random lines going horizontally connecting one to another, you then pick one of the verticle lines and follow it down moving across to the next line each time you come across a horizontal line. these have often been used as way to make choices or descions. sort of like flipping a coin. im not smart enough to word what they would symbolise in bobs mind
@@ThoughtBubbleYT Yeah, But when you have a crazy imaginative mind like me, Then imagine if the bosses from "Psychonauts 2" Like "Bob's bottles, Contins Cook Off and Cassie's Library" had "Astro Bots: Rescue Mission" Boss music in them
Great video! This is an incredibly well constructed video essay! One thing: Halmut throwing tomatoes is probably a reference to his theater persona. Halmut was a performer. People throw tomatoes at bad performances. So this warped version of Halmut who didn't love Bob is throwing tomatoes at Bob, basically booing him.
I’m surprised that the fact that the moth was found on the face of a statue of Bob, like a mask which I think(?) has something to do with protecting yourself), wasn’t brought up.
32:27 I think your opinion on how the people around Bob reacted to his addiction is not only uncharitable but also inaccurate. We can see from the memory of Bob getting fired that Truman attempted to get him help. But Bob refused. He refused the offer, and he refused to even take responsibility and deflected everything on everyone else. It is unethical to try to force help on someone if they're not willing to accept it, but more importantly, it's damn near impossible. And I'm speaking from firsthand experience. As damaging as it was to fire Bob because of his addiction, it was doubtlessly the only option Truman had. The fact of the matter is you can't help someone who doesn't want help and the longer you try before they are ready the more likely it is that you and others are damaged by their path of self-destruction. It isn't pretty. It isn't fun, and Lord knows it isn't easy. But the devastating truth is that sometimes there is nothing you can do.
I think my favorite line was when helmut stopped bobs kiss stating he had "borrowed lips," which instantly reminded me of Wonder Woman 85 and how awful her actions in that movie were.
Maybe I wrong, but I thinking, you forget mention one unique aspect of this level! It makes nothing for the story, but it perfectly fits to logic of level, it`s the music! And this already happened in the first game, instead of creating new music, creators used already existing. In the first Psychonauts,, it was the "Overture 1812" in "Waterloo World", and it's hard to imagine more suitable music for the battle against Napoleon. In the second game, in Bob`s Bottles, we cross alcoholic seas, exploring islands and hunting for "treasures" at the bottom of the bottles, all of this inside of mind a very drunk person, and the song, chosen for this level can`t be more ideal, especially for person, who know that in the text of song mentioned such words as "drunk", "punishment" and "sailor", because that`s "What do we do with a drunken sailor?" And that's not all, here`s are two versions of the theme, while we are riding on a boat, the melody is fast, cheerful and setting up an adventure, but when we reach the chronological finale of the story, when we step in Motherlobe, the melody become slow, sad, filled by sorrow, she sounds like weeping. And just a funny thing: if you take Bulb Bob, go to the red spikes, but instead go further, stay for little, Bob can mumble and even sing the words to the song.
I had no idea there were internal versions of Lilly, Otto, and Truman on Bobs islands. I’ll have to play the game again and specifically look for them.
I just finished the game, and immediately went off looking for videos about "Bob's Bottles", because it was also the deepest part of the game for me. Tim Schafer is a genius. Great video!
It's absolutely disgusting how underrated Psychonauts 2 is. No big youtubers played it and nobody talked about it. The best part is there's no memes. Cause it has no modern or real life aspects. It's completely in it's own world like these classics were back then. It's such a simple game that does everything perfectly. It's parts are made right from gameplay to flow and story. It all fits and feel the same yet being new. It's perfect cause every piece is made to work perfectly with everything else. There's some including you who make entire videos about every single mind level in this game. That shows the great detail this whole game has. It deserved more attention.
I also think it's really interesting that the moth seems to have the voice of a child, as if his child like self thinks bottling up his feelings and abandoning any and all relationships to "protect" him is the best course of action
Honestly, the moment Bob hears the Helmut Plant say something completly out character and him seeing at as such and breaking free from this self reflection honestly strikes my heart stings, it a small little moment that shows how much Bob cares for him and how much he knows about him that even he knows that what he said was completly false as he begins to break out of his own thorn covers cacoon.
my mom died recently after struggling with a long illness. my dad was devastated. he actually told me that he doesn't know who he is without her in his life. It took half a year before he was in any shape to even return to work again. In my opinion, Bob's reaction to his husband finally returning to him after twenty years of being thought dead was VERY undersold. also, when speaking to the Otto in Bob's mind, I love how obvious it is that Bob is simply projecting his thoughts on his husband onto the mouth of The Smart Guy. That's just so adorable.
Also there's that damn banana figment that was impossible to find until they changed the color! It was literally the last one I had to find and I swear I spent like three hours looking for it! I also left a like and subscribed because I know the struggle, I've been struggling on this platform for 10 years.
I get the feeling they tried to help, but if someone's unwilling to change, you can't do anything shy of brute forcing your way in. Given the organizations motto is not to "fix" people, they didn't think it was right to force their way into his mind to deal with the alcoholism. Justified as it may be, it would likely have deeply affected his trust in them and unless they completely removed his ability to consume alcohol via compulsions, he'd relapse and the spiral would have been even MORE intense. I was a bartender for 4 years and there are some people who you can tell, step by step, what their issue is, what it's doing to them, and how to fix it. But if they aren't willing to take those steps, you can't make them change. Bob became dependent on alcohol to fix his problems, and when his friends didn't stick around, he felt abandoned and drank more and more. Bob was in a vicious cycle of regret and failure and immeasurable self-blame and self-pity, and the alcohol made it infinitely worse. I'm glad the alcohol wasn't the cause of (most of) Bob's issues. It was his coping mechanism. An unhealthy one to be sure, but at least the alcohol didn't lead to all the deaths he felt guilty about, or his husband dying, which is usually how alcoholism is portrayed.
Its crazy to think that the greenhouse/chapel motif came so late in development, it feels like a no brainer given his back story and the association with glass bottles, but then again that's hindsight on my part. I still think its so goddamn cool how they reused the viking ship, cake, and endless hallway bits that were scrapped from previous levels, it in no way feels unintentional, and is a major payoff that hits so goddamn hard. Having them be married, and all the rest of the seven all incredibly supportive, is so much better than a closet or unrequited analogy, because it further emphasizes his level of negative projection he puts on his friends, and focuses his depression as a story of loss.
I found some other fun symbolism as well-- at the end of the level, the previously realistic and quite strong moth becomes nothing more than cardboard, and Bob takes it off of his own face, perhaps symbolizing that he is no longer allowing alcohol to blind his judgement. I won't bring up the Tia "Another dead soldier" line since so others in the comments have already done that. Another thing I noticed just on watching this video-- We can see the Feel Mobile in the background as we walk down the aisle in the last flashback, and after the level is over, we can see Bob and Helmut standing in front of the Feel Mobile at Helmut's stage, talking, which makes me think they probably spent a lot of time there, and that might be where they held the ceremony. These two are so sweet. I also really liked that Helmut stopped Bob from kissing him, reminding him that he was in a borrowed body. It was something I was a little worried about when the scene began and I just thought it was an incredibly sweet touch. I do agree with another commenter about the point that Bob was specifically fermenting mushrooms, which Helmut mentions he hates, perhaps signifying he is punishing himself. (I also wonder if this is a clandestine reference to Helmut's own level, which has many barely-disguised drug references, but I'm still working on my playthrough and haven't yet returned to Helmut's stage for his memory vaults, so I can't speak too much about that yet).
I don't know why there's a sudden influx of psychonauts content. . . And I've never played the game .. . But I could not be happier for everything falling into place and leading me down a rather interesting rabbit hole lined with copies of the DSM-5.
Apparently the water in the centre of Bob's mind could be a reference to the Term 'Wetbrain' which (from my understanding), is another name/similar term for the Decreased mental activity diseases you mention.🤔
I personally think that the tomatoes in the boss fight represent something else. Helmut was a performer, though a failure at that with memories showing empty theaters. Do you know what is one of the most stereotypical food thrown at performers who fail to entertain their audience (in media, at least)? Tomatoes. This is probably more of a representation of stories Helmut shared or were personally witnessed of other people's reaction to the Psychodysse. A terrible thought to think of what loved ones have to go through, but a testament to the inner strength that Helmut has.
I had been looking victorian flower language as of the past few years, and that Carnations represent motherhood, or the tender love of one...I immediately knew when we saw the pink Carnation trail in the water there would be talk about his mother...I can't reeeeally tell what the other flower trails are...but I think the dark red flowers are Dalias, which when they are dark in color (purple or red) bordering on black...represents betrayal...he felt betrayed, because that was the trail that lead to Zanatto...I thiiiiiink the orange ones might be Magnolias, no clue what those mean though...
Regarding forcing help on Bob… while he doesn’t say that he wants help, he was the one controlling the plant (even subconsciously) to let you into his mind to begin with. So it’s not like there was no consent whatsoever.
How could the 10-year old Raz help Bob when none of the Psychonauts could? Each of the Psychic 6 had thier own demons to fight with, especially after the War, they tried to help (as Truman seemingly gave him a number) but thier own minds were too unstable to go beyond like Raz did. Raz is an 19year old with a fresh set of eyes and a clear mind, he dealt with his own demons and being a child, he is rather direct in his approach and trusts in the strength of others and thier original intentions.
This was a great video. I thought you did a fantastic job analyzing this level and picked up on so many details I never noticed. One thing I think you misinterpreted though was the fruit that Helmut throws at Raz during the boss fight. Since they had barbs and Helmut was portrayed as a cactus, I'm pretty sure they're supposed to be prickly pears which are produced by specific cacti. I still think they represent the love between Bob and Helmut, but I think it's more straightforward to understand the symbolism, because the fruit tastes good, but is difficult to enjoy without harming you. Since Bob views relationships as being more dangerous than they're worth, it's a very apt metaphor. Again, excellent video, I look forward to your next piece.
What is your favorite Mental World in Psychonauts 2?! And what Mental World do you want to see next?
I love Hollis hot streak, because I am a gambling enthusiast.
But please do Fred Bonaparte’s brain next, I have a test on the French Revolution soon and it would help.
Maybe
This one because even though he yells at a child just trying to help it's hard not to feel bad for bob
You've done such good work with the mental worlds you've covered so far... heck, you opened up new ideas I hadn't even considered when watching PlayFrame's walkthrough of this game. Since you've gone over so many of the brains from Psychonauts 2, would you ever consider doing some of the mental worlds from the original game, or even Loboto's brain from the "Rhombus of Ruin"?
As for my favorite mental world, it's a toss up between "PSI King's Sensorium" and "Cassie's Collection"... but you did an awesome job with both of them already! If we were willing to look at mental worlds from the original, no contest- my favorite would be Fred's mind (the "Waterloo World" level), with Gloria's Theater being a close second.
Ford’s Fractured Mind. Also, Lucrecia’s Lament, as a chance to study Lucrecia as herself, as Nona, and as Maligula.
bob's bottles, coincidentally haha
i'd love to see you cover the meat circus!
I dont think the Bad mood on the wedding cake is doubt about the marriage itself, Its that the source of the bad mood was Lucretia's table
This is a really great catch, I didn’t even notice that!!
But the wedding also has numerous Bad Ideas attending as well, so there is a bit of truth to both the Lucretia attending and him thinking that marriage was a bad idea since it cost him everything when both turned to tragedy
@matthewgillis393 it could also be retroactive feelings about the wedding - the memories of the wedding might turn bittersweet under a more normal (for lack of a better term) significant others death, but in Bob's case, he might have retroactively repainted the marriage as doomed from the start.
Essentially, letting the pain of Helmut's death stain and taint the memories of their wedding, and retroactively calling it a bad idea even as Helmuts death and their wedding being completely unrelated events aside from the people involved. "Better to never have loved Helmut at all than feel the pain of his loss" sort of mentality.
Don't forget, memories are not immutable, they can and do change and can be tainted by current feelings.
I just wanna point out that the last Bulb Bob says that he "doesn't want to ruin the ceremony" when it's his *own* wedding, Bob's self-esteem is so low that he thinks he was unwanted at his own wedding
Oh.... oh sh*t
That’s like being unwanted at your own birthday party
I think Truman DID try to help him. Remember the “What is this number? I’m not calling some stranger” line? I think Truman TRIED to get Bob to see someone, he just wasn’t receptive to it then.
Bob refused the help probably to believing he didn't want or... deserve it
Plus the flashback we actually SEE of him firing Bob has Truman making a :( face as he does so
That’s what I was thinking about!
That number was for a substance abuse hotline.
@@Zuxtron makes sense
I loved that moment of Helmut would never say that. Like 'I might be garbage but he would never have thought that about me."
So if Bob is controlling the plants with his psychic powers, and one that gives Raz permission to enter his mind, that would mean that subconsciously a part of Bob wants Raz to help him but he's too ashamed to admit it out loud, or maybe he's so depressed he's not even aware of that part.
Interestingly, the second memory vault shows Trunan crying as he's firing Bob, so he clearly did feel a lot of pain over having to do it, despite the rest of Bob's mind depicting him as callous for it.
Given the tomatoes are what you throw back to damage the boss, and that Helmut's love is ultimately the memory that helps Bob reject the moth, that could also be intentional symbolism.
We all want to improve our bad situations...sometimes, we just consciously give up. Our subconscious never does, though.
An addition to Truman, if you hear the audio it sounds like Truman gave Bob a number to either a therapist or support group. I dont see it as Truman giving up, but more recognizing that Bob needed help he couldn't give and firing Bob so he could take a step away and focus on his grief and underlying unhealthy coping issues
@@Eventlessloki87 I think that phone number was Truman trying to get Bob to a rehab center for his alcoholism.
Wait what the fuck do you mean you can throw the tomatoes back? I spent the entire fight just spamming psi-shots at the tomatoes and the boss itself while hitting rockets back.
also the bulb bobs help you too, which could also be bob subconsciously supporting you, AND he also doesnt exactly tell you to not give him the seeds, hes a bit hesitant once but otherwise hes just sorta confused, and he also knows the moth is wrong and tries to get himself out of the coccoon
The most amazing part of Bob's Bottles is that it's... the rare RARE portrayal of alcoholism as a symptom rather than the problem itself. If this was done by less experienced, less empathetic, less worldly writer the whole mental landscape would be about the booze. With cartoon booze demons chasing and tempting Bob with a good time. If someone told me in advance Psychonauts 2 would touch on this topic I would've immediately clenched until I saw it for myself. However... no. This is a beautiful exploration of not just how someone wound up deep in substance abuse but WHY. It's incredibly human.
Psychonauts is a step above the usual in terms of treating mental health issues responsibly. I've been psychotically paranoid and I can't think of a better depiction of what that felt like than the Milkman Conspiracy.
@@discordlexia2429 I'm glad you didn't feel insulted by that, actually. Psychonauts 1 definitely felt more like it was laughing at rather than with people with issues, or drawing more heavily from pop culture's portrayal of mental illness. Yet Tim Schafer's writing always ultimately sides with the misfits, so I think even then a lot of people with issues (including myself) were drawn to that game.
@@TheMidnighttea Because of how psychology has changed - When Psychonots 1 came out psychologists *were* there to 'fix' people - our knowledge of psychology has changed - we no longer try to 'fix' people - thus in psychonots 2 came out they did a better job - the game improved because our knowledge of how the mind worked improved. Double fine did their work prior to making either game, Psychonauts 1 was unfortunately a product of the times, but the good thing about time is it always moves forwardy
@@TheMidnighttea It’s true, yes, that the game did laugh at them in some ways, but it’s also because they were making deliberate choices about how to portray the characters; they’ve talked about this, that one of the reasons they went the way they did with the asylum patients is that they wanted to make it clear that the asylum patients weren’t meant to be ‘real’ people.
They wanted to make it so it didn’t feel like they were making fun of real people with these mental illnesses, so they made them seem more extreme than reality, and still offer these characters sympathy despite this.
So it actually ties into the point @Pacattack25 made, that how we treat mental illness in media has changed.
They were doing their best to be respectful of real people in their own ways as well, while now we have more knowledge and experience in how portraying these things works.
Precisely
Kinda surprised It wasn't brought up but in the second bottle in the ship section, there's a trail of dark thoughts that lead to a figment of a rope.
Considering how Bob has been handling everything I think it's certainly... interesting in what it implies...
Hold up... shit I didn't notice that
Another detail that's even more... something, is that the dark thought actually start on the figment of a rope and lead to a figment of a treasure... Maybe as if the Rope could lead to Treasure...
Fun fact about the projections in Bob's mind, if you use Clairvoyance on them they all see Raz the exact same way that Bob does. This proves that they are just his own words projected out of those he loves.
The reason Raz is able to get so much done is because he has a fresh perspective on things. He's also much more aggressive he will do things himself to get you to confront your demons when others would just give up. It's literally a case of Raz being too stubborn to give up on helping an individual.
True
The Stubbornness of a Teenager knows no bounds, I tell ya.
@@MatthewCobalt He is ten, which makes it even funnier
I think the "dead soldier" comment the Tia flower makes is referencing a thing you do with alcohol called "finishing off a wounded soldier", where you drink the rest of a bottle of alcohol somebody else started on earlier.
I've also heard my dad say that "dead soldier" is a euphemism for an empty bottle of alcohol
29:53 "Dead soldier" is also a slang term for an emptied bottle.
And Helmut, being the performer he is, could be associated with tomatoes thrown at the stage for a bad performance, reflecting how Bob likely feels like his poor performance dealing with Maligula is what led to his husband's apparent death. The Helmut-cactus throwing these tomatoes is Bob projecting his self-blame onto the image of his husband, as if Helmut blames Bob for letting him die.
The cactus' last line is Bob's subconscious desperately trying to rationalize Helmut's apparent death as him not actually loving him and leaving of his own volition, trying to sever the ties of love to avoid being hurt by the loss.
The Helmut-cactus saying something that Bob knows is absolutely not true to any capacity is what brings him to snap out of the lies he's been telling himself.
I think the moth could also be a reference to mothballing. He still wants these relationships, these memories, but he can't bring himself to face them, so he's essentially mothballed his life. He's put everything on hold for some possible future day where they no longer hurt him.
And as for the comment on the Psychonauts not looking after the mental health of their founders, I think it's precisely because they were so legendary in the organization. They couldn't directly ask for help because they felt they needed to maintain an appearance of strength for the people below them, while their subordinates didn't feel comfortable initiating such a conversation with someone so far above them. They also couldn't rely on each other after the battle with Maligula because they were all too damaged to help. Ford's psyche was fractured, the parts of Cassie that cared about other people were locked away, Helmut was just a brain in a jar that everyone thought was dead, Bob was already beginning down his depressive spiral and Compton was far too anxious and self defeating to feel like he could be any help. They were the only ones who could help each other, but none of them were in a position to really help anyone until their own problems were dealt with.
Perhaps Otto could have helped.
@@christophernugent8492 Oh right, Otto exists. Honestly, I don't think so. He didn't have any problems of his own, but we've seen that he isn't exactly the most empathetic soul. I don't think he has the skills, the interest or the mindset to use his psychic abilities for therapeutic purposes.
@@screamingcactus1753 well i'm sure if he really tried he could find a way, he does seem to care, he's just too focused on other things. even if he is not the most empathetic he's not uncaring he just... felt he had better things to do i'm sure to try and help EVERYONE rather just some people
@@berdly1734
Yeah, and he plans to create miniature versions of the Astralathe for normal Psychics to use. He learned nothing 🤦🏻
In defense of Truman, Bob isn't necessarily the most reliable narrator in that specific memory. Truman may have tried to help him, he talks about being handed a phone number. Family members of recovering addicts are advised to keep themselves safe and well, which requires keeping boundaries with the addict in question, and depending on how bad things get may mean distancing oneself. Bob references people getting hurt, he may have become dangerous to work around and thus couldn't stay at the motherlobe in the same capacity. I can't say Truman necessarily handled the situation in the best way, but I don't blame him
In the memory vault detailing Bob getting fired, Truman looks as heartbroken as Bob
Also, if his relationship with his daughter is any indicator, Truman isn't exactly the best at communicating his feelings to others, even when they are the closest of family.
@@mavericktitan7874 Good point
the way the plant moves to place the door on Bobs forhead and turn him around almost seems like an intervention, like something a group of friends would do to try and help him. i get the feeling that the plants are just as impacted by Bobs condition as Bob himself is, and so they want to help Bob, not as a force, but as his friends
Some of my favorite moments in Psychonauts 2 were seeing Bob and Helmut as a couple. When I finished the game, I was worried about what would happen to Helmut when Gristol was put back in his own body. I was overjoyed to find that Helmut was given one of the brain balls and was going on a journey with Bob to find Helmut’s body.
and if you check double fines youtube, you can see helmut in his old unfrozen body :-)
I really hope there will be a 3rd game or a DLC where we get the chance to go to get his body back and see them united, they were such a sweet couple.
My favorite part of the game is in this level when you get Helmut's seed. You walk down the same aisle Bob did and you hear his vows. I always found it interesting after this world when Helmut reunites with Bob he says "It's me, Bobbi, it's your PSY King" and Bob instantly knows it's him. One of Helmut's mental vaults (the one that shows him meeting Ford) has a poster that just says Helmut Fullbear, not PSY King. I may be wrong but I don't think PSY King is a stage name, it might be Bob's pet name for him
Makes sense, especially considering he’s a PSYchic viKING.
I view that one vine as Bob's subconscious way of asking for help. He figured that Raz wants to help him, but outwardly rejects and even attacks Raz. But then you get that one vine. It's Bob pretty much begging for help, even though he outwardly rejects it.
This video just reminded me that it's a crime that this game didn't win any awards at the '21 Game Awards, especially in Best Narrative and Art Direction
Too artsy an niche for people to really like
It was definitely robbed, but yeah asked coworkers about it and they never heard of it, too niche
The VGA's were rigged man I swear
As someone who's dealt with intoxicated people throughout life, I've had a bolt lock put on my bedroom door in the past, because the drunk individual I had to deal with wasn't really violent as he was kinda annoying and I hated him barging in and annoying me. Also I lost a wonderful family friend in a drunk driving incident and because I didn't feel comfortable being around people in that state, I missed my last opportunity to hug the guy, he was a good man and things like that stay with me. But I'm also thankful I've seen what Alcohol can do and made a mental note to not go down that path and stick with drinking soda.
Two things, besides of course thank you for another great informative video:
1) The front door to the greenhouse, the one you go through before starting Bob's intro cutscene, is patterned like a leaf but shaped like a coffin, probably meaning Bob is just waiting to die like his mother did, alone in the greenhouse from drinking.
2) The "Another dead soldier" like in Tia plant is probably not meaning actual soldiers but using it in the older slang meaning either an empty or unfinished can/bottle of beer. In fact almost all of the mom plants lines are references to alcohol. Things like "let me know if this is too hot for ya" (of something to that effect) references liqueur served by itself cuz strong booze on its own can have a 'burn' to it.
It'd be another way of proving that the plant monsters are basically the opposite of reality. Truman being a fire-breathing dragon without a heart when the Real Truman cares very much for family as seen with him and his daughter, Helmut being a mean spiteful voice when he was really the kindest and most loving of the Psychic Six and Tia, the mother that died alone in a greenhouse trying to hide her problems from her son, being a loud and encouraging source of a desire to drink.
The other reason the Truman plant breathes fire is because he... *fired* Bob from the Psychonauts. :P
This is the mental world that grew on me the most. It's so symbolic and beautiful.
Haha, *grew*
@@labrat_09 It's funny cuz he can control plants.
For mine, it was that damn hospital casino. Hm. I wonder why… 🤔
The symbolism in this level is some of my favorite in the game.
I'll never forget playing this world for the first time. I was drinking and I remember slowly setting the can down to give this world my full attention when I realized what, exactly, his mother had been doing in the greenhouse. The bottles in the kitchen made it pretty obvious, especially when paired with his drinking as an adult. It made me feel seen in a very uncomfortable way.
There's an interesting note to Bob's drinking; someone pointed out that he's drinking a form of alcohol that's been created from fermenting mushrooms. This is another significant thing, as it's mentioned in-game that Helmut hated mushrooms, to which Bob simply says, "I know."
So, it could be seen as him punishing himself for failing to save his husband, and such.
I noticed in the Cutting the Roots memory vault, Truman Zanotto in that picture of him firing Bob does not look angry as Bob portrays in the second bottle or on the island. His face looks like it radiates concern, almost in regret. I think Truman tried what he could to get Bob help (a possible phone number for a therapist [the stranger]), but felt like he had no other choice or didn't bother.
I realized that we never heard what Truman said to Bob, but only what Bob said back to him. This means we are missing context of Truman's extent of trying to reach him or even that he was as malicious as Bob claims him to be.
I played (and completed) this game on pre-release. I enjoyed every minute! Seeing now that the DoubleFine Team did their homework on these topics grants me more appreciation for their game!
I thank you for your explanations and expertise. I would also love to see your take on the organization's flaws.
The more I take in Bob's Bottles, the more I find myself relating to it. Although not one for one, one of the differences being that I never dealt with alcoholism, the stages of depression shown are something I've dealt with. I also appreciate that something as ugly and heavy as depression was represented in such beautiful plant allegories. Honestly, this stage is nothing short of amazing.
My take on the falling out between Truman and Bob is that Truman did try to help, with the phone number to Alcoholics Anonymous and perhaps even giving him extra chances before the firing took place, but Bob refused to be separated from his only coping mechanism, leaving Truman no choice but to let Bob go. Also, the Truman flower's attack can't be countered and can only be avoided, symbolizing how Bob might have accepted the firing as (at least partially) his own fault.
Another thing about the boss fight is how you can reflect their attacks back at them, except Truman's because unlike the other 2 that happened from things beyond his control, him getting fired was for the most part his doing with his downward spiral. It's even shown that Truman did try to get him help and would probibly give him his job back if he got clean.
I actually love that final bit when he’s cleaning up his house and he tells the vine to recycle the plastic bottle as well. It just tickles me XD
I love how the the husbands minds are complete opposite interms of mood while helmut's goes from happy (reuniting his friends)
To sad (maligula)
Back to happy (clarifications)
To bob's that goes from
Sad (death of his mother and fired from his job)
To happy (his love life)
And back to sad (The memonstria)
They did compliment each other very well. Bob being in this well of depression and dredging for the scraps of his joy, and Helmut taking back in so much of what he loves that it overwhelms him, they’re two extremes that needed closure. Helmut came to grips with one horrific fear of neglect and betrayal knowing his friends were waiting for him, and Bob realized how the greatest outlet of joy he ever experienced isn’t just a farm for more tragedy.
@@Mecceldorf on the topic of Bob's bottles and Him and Helmut I love how Helmut says "YOUR psy king" giving the feeling like that was a pet name given by Bob
I think looking at Helmut and Bob’s minds side by side paints a really wonderful picture.
@@ThoughtBubbleYT also your right it would be great they would balance out the vibrance of Helmut's would cancel with the bleakness of Bob's
Loved loved loved this stage, felt on par with the asylum inmates' stages from the first game for me. Characters that are just depressingly dysfunctional and yet treated with sympathy and kindness are so rare and I eat it up always. The mood was just so overwhelmingly raw and crushing, wish I could experience it for the first time again! I love all the subtle double entendres that referenced all his problems in the dialogue...my favorite detail is how much bigger Helmut's wedding cake topper is in comparison to Bob, completely dwarfing him, put on a pedestal to an almost unhealthy degree. So when that support network is gone...Bob's gone, too.
I also just love how sad and GAY it is, like in Helmut's world you have figments of them together suggesting it, and I thought it was just going to be another one of those "oh yeah we have a ~confirmed gay character~ (only shows it in extreme subtext shoved to the side)" type things, but NO. There's a god damn WEDDING, explicit as explicit can be. Thank you, Double Fine.
i really loved the moment in the final battle where bob snaps out of it because the plant helmet said he didn't love him. I feel like there are times when the bad thoughts have become so ingrained they become like, comically evil and it snaps you out of whatever you're feeling when you're more clearly understanding what you're thinking?
Like even though helmet wasn't there, the constant love and support they gave each other when raz helped him remember helmet, THAT'S what helped him. How when Bob was finally in a state of mind to remember what their love was TRULY like and the thoughts that had been plaguing him while intoxicated, caused a complete dissonance.
It's crazy how helmet's death was what caused him to spiral but it's helmet's life that snapped him out of it, I'm so happy they got a happy ending because their story was so touching.
One thing that still confuses me about Bob is his relation to Truman - Truman is his nephew, but we never see or hear Bob talk about having a sister or brother, similarly to how Truman doesn't have any photos of his wife and parents around - just Lili (this is understandable since these characters have nothing to do with the story taking place but it still would've been nice to see them). And he obviously doesn't have any memory vaults, pictures, or figments around that could indicate him having a sibling or having a sibling that passed away after having Truman. He seems to be an only child - and a very geeky, band kid at that (the 'late for my recital' bit, helps connect him musically to Helmut since in the PSI King Sensorium he was the symbol of his sense of hearing - very important to a musician). It's also heavily implied that Bob found his mother's body in the greenhouse when she didn't come in for dinner - having spent an entire night and day outside the house, culminating in a very traumatic memory indeed for a young man.
I've just realized that the presence of the photos of Bob's father could indicate another result - divorce. A divorce would perfectly explain why there are no photos of Bob's sibling - each parent kept one kid, Bob was already close to his mom before so he was the one she kept while the other went with dad, her husband leaving her and taking one of her children with him would also qualify as a viable cause for her alcoholism. It would still mean that either a) Bob's father died before Tia's funeral which is why he wasn't there or b) no longer cared enough about his ex-wife to show up to her funeral - preventing Trumen's parent from going as well. More speculation - given the time period the game seems to be set in sometimes, when Bob was a child it probably would've been seen as very shameful for her to be a divorced single mother - let alone an alcoholic and a psychic (which it seems like Bob didn't know about either until his own psychic abilities acted up after the funeral).
@@veilvillage9873 There’s also another option, while that also makes a very good point that it could be divorce, in one of Tia’s houses, there’s a picture of a kid who doesn’t quite look like how bob was drawn in his pictures in the Vaults, implying that it may have been his brother. I can’t find the picture at the moment, but the boy has square glasses and wavy hair, if I remember correctly.
@@StarryOak76 I'll take any excuse to play Bob's Bottles again - once final exams are over that is, it still seems strange to me how we don't know much about Trumen's connection to Bob - I mean, given he has the Zanotto name so it's more likely that Bob had a brother (and possibly a non-psychic one at that). I'll look around once I get the chance, thank you.
Bob always resonated with me. While I never had to deal with alcoholism and not even finding his level too intriguing personally, I could always understand and feel what he would say about himself and made others say for him.
As someone who was professionally diagnosed with a major depressive episode and MDD, the feeling of “we talked and hung out because we felt bad” or “because they had connections to someone useful” is something very familiar to me. Not being able to trust new people despite wanting connections, not wanting them to leave but not wanting to come along out of fear of getting hurt again. As well as associating a person with one action or sentence alone (“you’re fired”)… Yeah, I could quite feel that.
I deadass cried the first time I walked down the aisle and heard Bob’s speech at the wedding. His relationship with Helmut is just something so wholesome and I’m sure that after he was lost in the battle, Bob felt as if a part of himself got lost alongside him. I think that’s also way he says that “Bob” is dead. It’s like he doesn’t feel like his old self and not deserving of being around others. They all only cared for him because of Helmut anyways, right?
While not having had any such strong romantic relationships myself, I still understand the feeling quite well. So, while I may not like his level very much, Bob himself is - emotionally - one of my top favorite characters in the entire game.
Thank you for reading and thank you for this great in depth analysis of a beloved character
Fun fact! The term for Barfly in polish is actually Bar moth! I wonder if thats connected to why they chose a moth for his self protection from relationships.
I’ve gotta admit my favorite moment in this, beyond, well, all of it… I should say, my favorite _little_ moment of this level was recognizing the song that’s always playing when you boat around in the sea of alcohol.
I recognized it as a very famous sailor song, but I couldn’t remember what it was called, just that it’s a famous song… the song’s name, when I remembered it, punched me in the face with how clever it is. What Do You Do With A Drunken Sailor. That’s just such a clever little mean joke that they never point out explicitly, and I love it so much!
I also think it's neat that the moths have a child Bob's voice, showing that his wounded inner chld is trying to protect him, stemming from his own loss with his father. We dont see much about his dad, but clearly that was the starting point with his fear of relationships which we see in his vows about originally seeing his feelings of love as weeds that need pulling.
I also love how Helmut's plant was a cactus, the one hardiest for thriving in the isolated desert island environment of Bob's mental world.
Something about bob's face makes me extra sympathetic to him, and i think it's because he looks like a sad puppy or an old doll
One thing I always thought was interesting about this level is the entrance into it. Like you mentioned, the plant lets Raz sneak in and gives him permission to enter Bob's mind, but obviously the plant can't actually move on its own, it's a channel for Bob's psychic talents. This combined with the fact that Bob silently but willingly lets Raz into his mind always made me feel like this was Bob's desire for help that he had difficulty voicing. Subconsciously, he did want someone to reach out to him and that's what the plant's actions are reflecting. It also makes more sense with Raz's push to ask for permission before entering anyone's minds in the sequel, as getting permission from a living plant to help Bob isn't asking Bob for permission, but if the vine is a psychic reflection of Bob's inner thoughts, then it's still Bob giving permission.
I really like how after Hollis, he always asks for permission first. CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT.
I should point out that 'pub moth' is slang for a drunkard, represented by them flitting from pub to pub as they get cut off.
Bob's Bottles and Feast of the Senses were on a whole other level, man. Most of the levels were pretty stellar, but those two just succeeded on every possible level and were so beautifully done. Those are my picks for S tier, with the Milkman Conspiracy, Gloria's Theatre, and the Meat Circus from the first game.
Finally someone acknowledging Gloria's Theater! That level hit me like a truck full of bricks, just like Bob's Bottles did!
First, Bob's Bottle might not have been my fav level, but I certainly appreciate the beauty in how it depicts Bob's decent into alcoholism.
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Second, not sure if I thought about it before or not, but yeah... it's hard to ignore the disconnect between a literal agency full of people trained to help people like Bob, but none of them lift a finger to help even though they're living like hermits for years literally a five minute walk from their building and... you know... kinda the entire reason there's an agency in the first place. Granted, at least Truman's implied to have tried to give Bob a number for AA or similar.
It's one thing to pick the mind of a stranger and try to find the source of their problems to point them in the right direction. It's a whole other thing to do the same with a close friend, let alone family. I'm not defending their negligence, but sometimes the more you care about someone the harder it is to give them the help they truly need.
A. Psychonauts has to be one of my newest favorite games ever. This series helped introduce me to that love and actually a potential interest in psychology and helping people. While I dunno if that is the career path I will take, this has helped me learn about the troubles and ordeals people go through every day.
B. The main overarching point and the moral I can see with the Psychic Seven is this: People don't heal or improve themselves alone. It's with other people. And yet, that's the hardest part with some of these cases, Bob Zanatto especially. We see it with ALL of the Psychic Seven. Ford Cruller shattered his mind and was a mentally broken man after losing Lucrecia, yet Raz is able to help him put himself together again and fix his past. Bob needed the support of people in his life, yet was isolated because of Truman and his own flesh and blood hurting and neglecting him, yet Raz was able to show him that there is SO much more that can be done, so many people who are able to show love and kindness to him. Compton and Cassie needed one another, they were strong together. Psi King, with Raz's help, was literally able to make himself whole again. And this is such a powerful message through the entire Psychonauts, including the antagonist and Raz, and I am truly in awe that your videos do such an amazing job in their analysis.
Notice how Bob's mind opens on a totally barren island, with no way to leave. He literally can't travel to the rest of his own mind. And notice what vehicle we use to break that barrier: the Psy door. This is the only time that door remains a physical object within a mind. It's literally the connection with another - empathy, symbolized in that door - that is crucial to accessing all these buried seeds
Thinking about bobs comment of “why are you all attacking me” lead me to believe that Truman didn’t just fire Bob, he might’ve tried to hold an intervention to try to help Bob, but after the news he was being fired, Bob just saw it as an attack
This was personally my favorite level.. and honestly, I wish I could see more of the mental worlds that Psychonauts could offer..
I think the card Truman gave Bob was for people who help people with addiction and Truman looks really sad firing Bob in the memory vault.
"I'm not a good swimmer. Are you?"
"No."
"Welcome to The Island then, I guess."
I see what you did there. That was hilarious.
One thing that I think is under-mentioned is how the moth turns into a cardboard mask at the end of the level. A nice piece of symbolism.
Only note, when the Tia plant says "just another dead soldier," during her attack it also means "just another empty bottle." A dead soldier is slang for an empty beer or liquor bottle, usually in reference to a night of binge drinking. So it's double meaning referencing her dead husband and her binge drinking (maybe triple meaning if it's Bob projecting his thoughts on her, since Helmut was also a 'dead soldier' in a way.)
I wanted to point this out: just like you said, Bob is psychically controlling the vine. This means that, deep down, he wants help, and probably always did, he just didn't know who or how to ask for it. This is why the vine let's Raz in. Because it's not being controlled by Bob consciously. It's basically just a reaction. When he was startled by the presence of someone, something he hadn't seen in years, his first reaction was to get rid of them. After Bob calms down a bit, his true feelings start to show: he truly craves help.
I love how before you even go into his mind, He can't outright ask you for help, he threatens you and sends you away, but the vine acts as him as well,asks you to help and lets you inside, Like how so many people will turn others away despite wanting to beg for help, but finding themselves unable to bring the words to their mouth, and when your finally inside his mind, He begs you not to leave
Fun fact, in my home country, there are several flowers commonly brought to or planted on graves... Carnations being one of them, Dahlias being another... And Marigolds are also often planted around graves - I believe last we visited Grandpa's grave, mom planted some Marigolds for him. And Granny had a slew of white and white/red carnations at her funeral. (Dahlias were out of season at the time I believe, plus granny didn't like them).
So the fact that the three flowers present on the level also just so happen to be typical eastern european flowers associated with graves and grief is also an interesting paralel.
beat psychonauts 2 at least a dozen times, and this is still the one level i can't play without crying. the vows always get me, if i even make it that far without tears TwT
The spikey tomatoes reminded me of when tomatoes are thrown at a bad or unpopular performance.
As a child of an alchohol addict for some time, this level hit so close to home. It's not easy seeing a loved one (or a fictional stranger for that matter) drowning their sorrows away to the detriment of their health. It's depressing but was handled in such a true-to-life way and I will always hold so much love for how respectfully the psychonauts team approaches its subject matter.
You should consider checking out the Rhombus of Ruin, it's a VT Psychonauts game and if I'm not mistaken you get to go back into Sasha's mind. However I think Dr. Loboto's mind in that game is the most interesting.
In regards to why the pscyhonauts didn't give Bob more empathy I think its important to mention that, sometimes, the people who are closest to you can be some of the most blind to your troubles. As for Truman, Bob's alcoholism is heavily implied to have physically harmed people. He was a *literal* danger to, not just himself, but to the other people at the motherlobe. Thats the reason he gave Bob a phone number. It was to give him help. Raz is also rather liberal with entering people's minds where as the psychonauts have a culture of being conservative with doing as such. And since the psychonauts try to get explicit permission from people to enter their minds I can assume that Bob didn't *give* that permission as we hear him specifically say "Help? I don't need help!"
I think they did try to help him as much as they could but he just refused it because of the moth wanting to stop him from feeling anything at all.
My favorite piece of subtext in this level is how the submerged bottles in the bog segment are only revealed by Bulb Bob's breath.
They say repeatedly that Bob has no support systems... but he Did. We might only hear one half of the conversation, but its pretty clear that Truman was trying to get Bob some professional help. He only reason he fired bob because he was trapped in a terrible situation where he had to think of the safety of the company and Bob himself as well.
But its not like Truman gave up on bob either. He sends letters and pics of his neice all the time. Signs that hes trying to reach out.
But.... bob filters that all, and warps Truman's character down to two words.
He Had a support system. People who cared and wanted to help.... but at the time, he pushed them all away.
Edit: spelling
29:24 A person once told me about meditation, "I didn't get into this for being a nice person." A lot of people enter into psychology in general trying to pin down their own demons. A few of them remain right bonkers, too...
Also, having psychic powers doesn't make you a good person. They could feel pushed into the job.
Sorry to break the tomato analogy, but Helmut being a cactus, and the "tomatoes" having thorns, means those a probably prickly pears, not tomatoes.
It’s likely a blend of the two in my opinion! They’re made to look a lot more like Tomatoes than Prickly Pears sans the spikes and in the fight he says “I’ve been hit with bigger tomatoes than that” it makes me think that the choice to make them appear as tomatoes was still intentional even though you’re right they probably also take inspiration, less on the symbolism side of things, and more on the botanical side of things from prickly pears. That’s just my opinion though!
Regarding Truman and the Psychonauts 'neglecting' Bob, I don't think they did (or at least willingly). we don't know how the organization's changed over time but I think Truman did whatever he could for Bob until there was a point he felt he had to take drastic measures, measures which pretty much failed. We only know Bob's side of the conversation and through his feeling of betrayal come to a certain conclusion over the situation, which isn't unreasonable as you'd hardly think rationally in that position. In the memory vault of the incident it looks like Truman's on the verge of tears as he fires Bob, so I don't think he wanted to do it but felt he had to to force him to get help as he was likely using "the job" as an excuse to avoid confronting his issues.
As I said, Truman's attempt to force Bob to get help pretty much failed, but while in his greenhouse with only Raz, likely the first person he's had two way contact with in years (I suspect Truman might have sent him letters, which included pictures of Lillie, that Bob never replied to), his subconscious desire for help finally broke out as he wasn't able to hide behind being a member of the Psychic 6/7 and founder of the Psychonauts.
Bob’s level kills me. It’s such a poignant representation of depression and self-medication, and it’s unpacked here really well.
I remember when I first played the level a thing that got to me is that the moth sounds very child-like.
It kinda made me think it's a defense mechanism he developed as a child and never grew out of. I dunno-
In the memory vault in the picture with small Bob laying in bed looking out the window it seems like the outline of the curtains pain a bottle and the house looks like bottle's lable. It's most probably just overthinking but it is a nice detail
its such a masterpiece this game and criminally underrated.
Also, sorry for double commenting - I think I know why the Psychonauts organization was less empathetic than Raz.
Think back to your own parents, grandparents etc. etc. "Depression? HAH! Get a job, that'll fix you right up." "ADHD? You're just lazy, grow up!"
The heads of the psychonauts may represent that older generation. Coz even when I went to a psychiatrist for my depression as a teen? My depressive symptoms were dismissed by the MUCH older doctor, who just claimed I wanted to get drugs and am lying about my symptoms. My mother, who read a lot about psychology dismissed my self-isolation as me being an introvert. And even my current doctor, who couldn't be anywhere older than her 40's legally cannot diagnose me with ADHD coz I am over the age of 18 because my country has the USSR mentality of "ADHD is only prevalent in children, and by the age of 18 it stops." instead of understanding "masking" as a concept. Despite me flagging for all symptoms of ADHD in an adult.
That's why RAZ can help. He's looking at this as a youngster. As someone from our age who understands struggling more than the adults who struggle. Coz they all think "I'm fine! I just need to focus on work. I just need to focus on family. I'm not allowed to struggle." Our generation saw the flaw in that mentality and instead allows ourselves to struggle and ask for help. Which is why I think it's in a sense social commentary that we as Raz can do more to help everyone, than the grown up Psychonauts. They are outdated and believe that an adult can't struggle.
I broke up with my girlfriend a month ago, we've been keeping in touch and we are still the best friends in the whole world; but sometimes it just hurts a lot to think that she just doesn't love me in the way she used to. And yesterday was one of the worst days; bescause i got drunk for the first time and I understood why so many people are looking forward to get shelter in alcohol, but then I felt overwhelmed by all the things I started to remember and WHY I got drunk. After all that I remembered Bob Zanotto, and I understand him a lot better. Finally I saw this video, it really help me a lot, thank you so much for everything, I love your videos by the way haha; but seriously, thank you! For everyone reading this, don't look after shelter in alcohol, drugs, sex or any of those things; the fallen gets harder everytime. (Sorry for bad english)
Bob's Bottle became my favorite mind the first time I played it, closely followed by Ford's fractured mind and then Edgar's!
I think one of the greatest strengh of Bob in Psychonauts 2 is how, no matter how bad is situation may be, the game does not try to pin the blame or part of the blame on the fact that he was in a homo relationship. It would have been easy to create a character or a level based on homophobia, fear of invading spaces or other common psychological events reccurent among the LGBTQ community but the restraint the dev team showed really makes the relationship feels like more than just a subject they wanted to tackle.
"Another dead soldier" is also a phrase relating to an empty wine bottle.
One of the small details I love about this world is that the ocean waves look like a brain.
I just love how the plants help Raz into his mind despite his outburst.
perfect show of how subconsciously people want help despite outwardly being against it
the trees in you see when you first encounter the moth are (to me at least) clearly showing the "choice tree" where you have 3+ lines going verticle and random lines going horizontally connecting one to another, you then pick one of the verticle lines and follow it down moving across to the next line each time you come across a horizontal line. these have often been used as way to make choices or descions. sort of like flipping a coin.
im not smart enough to word what they would symbolise in bobs mind
One of my greatest hopes to see in a Psychonauts 3 is at least a mention that Bob is going to AA.
I played "Psychonauts 2" since my birthday of this year and it has been a crazy ride
It’s definitely a very unique experience!
@@ThoughtBubbleYT Yeah, But when you have a crazy imaginative mind like me, Then imagine if the bosses from "Psychonauts 2" Like "Bob's bottles, Contins Cook Off and Cassie's Library" had "Astro Bots: Rescue Mission" Boss music in them
Great video! This is an incredibly well constructed video essay!
One thing:
Halmut throwing tomatoes is probably a reference to his theater persona. Halmut was a performer. People throw tomatoes at bad performances. So this warped version of Halmut who didn't love Bob is throwing tomatoes at Bob, basically booing him.
I’m surprised that the fact that the moth was found on the face of a statue of Bob, like a mask which I think(?) has something to do with protecting yourself), wasn’t brought up.
32:27 I think your opinion on how the people around Bob reacted to his addiction is not only uncharitable but also inaccurate. We can see from the memory of Bob getting fired that Truman attempted to get him help. But Bob refused. He refused the offer, and he refused to even take responsibility and deflected everything on everyone else. It is unethical to try to force help on someone if they're not willing to accept it, but more importantly, it's damn near impossible. And I'm speaking from firsthand experience. As damaging as it was to fire Bob because of his addiction, it was doubtlessly the only option Truman had. The fact of the matter is you can't help someone who doesn't want help and the longer you try before they are ready the more likely it is that you and others are damaged by their path of self-destruction. It isn't pretty. It isn't fun, and Lord knows it isn't easy. But the devastating truth is that sometimes there is nothing you can do.
I think my favorite line was when helmut stopped bobs kiss stating he had "borrowed lips," which instantly reminded me of Wonder Woman 85 and how awful her actions in that movie were.
Maybe I wrong, but I thinking, you forget mention one unique aspect of this level! It makes nothing for the story, but it perfectly fits to logic of level, it`s the music! And this already happened in the first game, instead of creating new music, creators used already existing. In the first Psychonauts,, it was the "Overture 1812" in "Waterloo World", and it's hard to imagine more suitable music for the battle against Napoleon. In the second game, in Bob`s Bottles, we cross alcoholic seas, exploring islands and hunting for "treasures" at the bottom of the bottles, all of this inside of mind a very drunk person, and the song, chosen for this level can`t be more ideal, especially for person, who know that in the text of song mentioned such words as "drunk", "punishment" and "sailor", because that`s "What do we do with a drunken sailor?" And that's not all, here`s are two versions of the theme, while we are riding on a boat, the melody is fast, cheerful and setting up an adventure, but when we reach the chronological finale of the story, when we step in Motherlobe, the melody become slow, sad, filled by sorrow, she sounds like weeping.
And just a funny thing: if you take Bulb Bob, go to the red spikes, but instead go further, stay for little, Bob can mumble and even sing the words to the song.
I had no idea there were internal versions of Lilly, Otto, and Truman on Bobs islands.
I’ll have to play the game again and specifically look for them.
I just finished the game, and immediately went off looking for videos about "Bob's Bottles", because it was also the deepest part of the game for me. Tim Schafer is a genius.
Great video!
This level was very hard for me to play through, thank you for your insights into connections and references in the level that I had missed
Heck merigolds are also the type of flower we use here in México for día de los muertos to us its a flower that represents eemembrance and mourning
It's absolutely disgusting how underrated Psychonauts 2 is. No big youtubers played it and nobody talked about it. The best part is there's no memes.
Cause it has no modern or real life aspects. It's completely in it's own world like these classics were back then. It's such a simple game that does everything perfectly.
It's parts are made right from gameplay to flow and story. It all fits and feel the same yet being new. It's perfect cause every piece is made to work perfectly with everything else.
There's some including you who make entire videos about every single mind level in this game. That shows the great detail this whole game has. It deserved more attention.
I also think it's really interesting that the moth seems to have the voice of a child, as if his child like self thinks bottling up his feelings and abandoning any and all relationships to "protect" him is the best course of action
Honestly, the moment Bob hears the Helmut Plant say something completly out character and him seeing at as such and breaking free from this self reflection honestly strikes my heart stings, it a small little moment that shows how much Bob cares for him and how much he knows about him that even he knows that what he said was completly false as he begins to break out of his own thorn covers cacoon.
my mom died recently after struggling with a long illness. my dad was devastated. he actually told me that he doesn't know who he is without her in his life. It took half a year before he was in any shape to even return to work again.
In my opinion, Bob's reaction to his husband finally returning to him after twenty years of being thought dead was VERY undersold.
also, when speaking to the Otto in Bob's mind, I love how obvious it is that Bob is simply projecting his thoughts on his husband onto the mouth of The Smart Guy. That's just so adorable.
Also there's that damn banana figment that was impossible to find until they changed the color! It was literally the last one I had to find and I swear I spent like three hours looking for it! I also left a like and subscribed because I know the struggle, I've been struggling on this platform for 10 years.
I get the feeling they tried to help, but if someone's unwilling to change, you can't do anything shy of brute forcing your way in. Given the organizations motto is not to "fix" people, they didn't think it was right to force their way into his mind to deal with the alcoholism. Justified as it may be, it would likely have deeply affected his trust in them and unless they completely removed his ability to consume alcohol via compulsions, he'd relapse and the spiral would have been even MORE intense.
I was a bartender for 4 years and there are some people who you can tell, step by step, what their issue is, what it's doing to them, and how to fix it. But if they aren't willing to take those steps, you can't make them change. Bob became dependent on alcohol to fix his problems, and when his friends didn't stick around, he felt abandoned and drank more and more.
Bob was in a vicious cycle of regret and failure and immeasurable self-blame and self-pity, and the alcohol made it infinitely worse.
I'm glad the alcohol wasn't the cause of (most of) Bob's issues. It was his coping mechanism. An unhealthy one to be sure, but at least the alcohol didn't lead to all the deaths he felt guilty about, or his husband dying, which is usually how alcoholism is portrayed.
Its crazy to think that the greenhouse/chapel motif came so late in development, it feels like a no brainer given his back story and the association with glass bottles, but then again that's hindsight on my part. I still think its so goddamn cool how they reused the viking ship, cake, and endless hallway bits that were scrapped from previous levels, it in no way feels unintentional, and is a major payoff that hits so goddamn hard. Having them be married, and all the rest of the seven all incredibly supportive, is so much better than a closet or unrequited analogy, because it further emphasizes his level of negative projection he puts on his friends, and focuses his depression as a story of loss.
I found some other fun symbolism as well-- at the end of the level, the previously realistic and quite strong moth becomes nothing more than cardboard, and Bob takes it off of his own face, perhaps symbolizing that he is no longer allowing alcohol to blind his judgement.
I won't bring up the Tia "Another dead soldier" line since so others in the comments have already done that.
Another thing I noticed just on watching this video-- We can see the Feel Mobile in the background as we walk down the aisle in the last flashback, and after the level is over, we can see Bob and Helmut standing in front of the Feel Mobile at Helmut's stage, talking, which makes me think they probably spent a lot of time there, and that might be where they held the ceremony. These two are so sweet.
I also really liked that Helmut stopped Bob from kissing him, reminding him that he was in a borrowed body. It was something I was a little worried about when the scene began and I just thought it was an incredibly sweet touch.
I do agree with another commenter about the point that Bob was specifically fermenting mushrooms, which Helmut mentions he hates, perhaps signifying he is punishing himself. (I also wonder if this is a clandestine reference to Helmut's own level, which has many barely-disguised drug references, but I'm still working on my playthrough and haven't yet returned to Helmut's stage for his memory vaults, so I can't speak too much about that yet).
I don't know why there's a sudden influx of psychonauts content. . . And I've never played the game .. .
But I could not be happier for everything falling into place and leading me down a rather interesting rabbit hole lined with copies of the DSM-5.
Apparently the water in the centre of Bob's mind could be a reference to the Term 'Wetbrain' which (from my understanding), is another name/similar term for the Decreased mental activity diseases you mention.🤔
I personally think that the tomatoes in the boss fight represent something else.
Helmut was a performer, though a failure at that with memories showing empty theaters. Do you know what is one of the most stereotypical food thrown at performers who fail to entertain their audience (in media, at least)?
Tomatoes.
This is probably more of a representation of stories Helmut shared or were personally witnessed of other people's reaction to the Psychodysse.
A terrible thought to think of what loved ones have to go through, but a testament to the inner strength that Helmut has.
I had been looking victorian flower language as of the past few years, and that Carnations represent motherhood, or the tender love of one...I immediately knew when we saw the pink Carnation trail in the water there would be talk about his mother...I can't reeeeally tell what the other flower trails are...but I think the dark red flowers are Dalias, which when they are dark in color (purple or red) bordering on black...represents betrayal...he felt betrayed, because that was the trail that lead to Zanatto...I thiiiiiink the orange ones might be Magnolias, no clue what those mean though...
Regarding forcing help on Bob… while he doesn’t say that he wants help, he was the one controlling the plant (even subconsciously) to let you into his mind to begin with. So it’s not like there was no consent whatsoever.
I think Bob actually shows more classic signs of bpd over just regular depression symptoms.
How could the 10-year old Raz help Bob when none of the Psychonauts could?
Each of the Psychic 6 had thier own demons to fight with, especially after the War, they tried to help (as Truman seemingly gave him a number) but thier own minds were too unstable to go beyond like Raz did.
Raz is an 19year old with a fresh set of eyes and a clear mind, he dealt with his own demons and being a child, he is rather direct in his approach and trusts in the strength of others and thier original intentions.
RAZ IS 10 YEARS OLD what in the world are you smoking to make him look like a 19 year old in your eyes
This was a great video. I thought you did a fantastic job analyzing this level and picked up on so many details I never noticed. One thing I think you misinterpreted though was the fruit that Helmut throws at Raz during the boss fight. Since they had barbs and Helmut was portrayed as a cactus, I'm pretty sure they're supposed to be prickly pears which are produced by specific cacti. I still think they represent the love between Bob and Helmut, but I think it's more straightforward to understand the symbolism, because the fruit tastes good, but is difficult to enjoy without harming you. Since Bob views relationships as being more dangerous than they're worth, it's a very apt metaphor. Again, excellent video, I look forward to your next piece.