In my first complete campaign I played with: + Panzer General + Liberator + Master of Bitzkrieg - No overstrength + AA Veteran - Inefficient supply - Trench slog Took the West Coast on turn 16 with about 35k in prestige. Of all the negative trait, I would say Trench Slog is the easiest one to get away with, just make sure to get a lot of engineers which are one of the best units in the game anyway so why not? And a LOT of artillery. By final scenario I had 8 Hummels, 6 engineers and 3 flame tanks. City defenders just melted. Next game I will DEFINITELY swap out Liberator with Trophies of War because not only do you get more prestige you actually get enough enemy equipment to use it while it is still worth using.
Is trophies of war that good? Someone else told me the same thing. It is y understanding that the units HP at the time of encirclement is converted into prestige. If so, how many encirclements and how much prestige are you net positive in a typical scenario?
@@ESG1 I would say TOW is definitely much better in terms of prestige. I mean one capture of an enemy cav unit probably generates about as much as all of the extra prestige in a scenario from liberator. Especially if you know the scenario well like the early Poland campaigns where you know roughly when it's safe to encircle and how much extra time you have to play with. I'm a little concerned that as the scenarios get tougher, it will be harder to take the time to capture and also risk damage from splitting units. It greatly helps to include Deadly Grasp, Master of Blitzkrieg, Perim control, Flexible command. They really all work together but that is also a lot of commander traits.
I prefer Trophies of War to Liberator. You can absolutely generate more prestige with Trophies of War if you play to maximize surrenders. Deadly Grasp and Flexible Command both add tremendous synergy, allowing you to quickly surround enemy units and then surrender them.
@@ESG1 Difficulty level doesn't have any impact on prestige from hex or unit capture. Difficulty prestige modifiers only apply to the per-turn prestige.
on hardest difficulty i find Green Army is the most punishing negative trait, i would rather use Trench Slog which is not that bad, just use units that ignore entrenchments against cities (there are both infantry and tanks that can do that), that is the easiest negative trait you can choose
I think it all depends on your play style. I have been getting easy victories so far with green army so I don't see it as a hinderance. We will see if the Soviet's can stop me.
@@ESG1 soviets dont have stars on units, but later UK/US units have 3-4 stars which means if your units dont have at least the same amount of stars on every unit, battle becomes too hard, i think every single negative trait is better than green army :-)
@@fixpontt I agree, I think Green Units is one of the worst negative traits and depending on the other difficulty settings may be a complete deal breaker. Unit experience has huge impact on how much damage you take.
I'm going to try out with perimeter control next. I think killer team isn't so important unless you start in a later date. You can get those 3 heroes from Poland campaign. I always play with elites but I have so much more prestige since I play on regular difficulty. Elites kill greens so easily. Overall I feel elites are much better (but very costly, you can spend 400 on elite replacements for tanks) in Panzer Corps 2
Elites are most likely not viable at higher levels. I have yet to test it but it seems like you would run out of prestige and that would stop your offensive. Deffinetly better in a prestige rich environment.
@@ESG1 You can absolutely use elites at the highest levels . . . I'm currently playing a "Europe on a Shoestring" play through where you don't get any prestige per turn and still have enough prestige to use elite replacements for nearly all units. The trick is to minimize damage to your units which is done with a combination of: Defensive advance - keeping your advancing units covered with artillery/AT/AA support Baiting the enemy - lure them into attacking your defended units Maximizing unit experience - experienced units take MUCH less damage Minimizing combat - by using surround and surrender
I have played diffrent set ups on generalism now. No refill during battle is deffinitly the hardest negativ to play with, id say. Concerning your build i still like it, even though there are quite some draw backs. Right now i would guess that playing without green army seems stronger to me. I find that i can safe way more prestige with elite/upgrade play styles, since i have to refill less. 2 star troops are a completly diffrent unit than none stars on generalism. Also i like the strategic flexibility of free upgrading. I just started a campaign with allmost no negatives on barbarossa and i am with about 5k prestige banked at moscow now. Talking of which, i am guessing u will run into trouble there, since u will need a lot of refills in battle there, which are same price as elite refills after battle... Basicly i am saying, playing elites safes lots of prestige during battle, just as supirior equipment does. You have to spent to much during battle and in the long run your none stars will keep losing more and more strength points vs. stronger units. I am big fan of hex control, anything else is just a nice bonus. Tank and Infantry general is very nice too, as is iron grip. Killer team strongly deminishes in return later on. The general traits have the draw back, that the exp is split between troops but the are nice for the free overstrength on former 3 point troops. What i really liked a lot was the anti air upgrade, since a couple of fighters is enough. In general every unit, even anti tanks have a good use. I also like the storch a lot now! Anyways, so much to write really. Moscow is the bench mark. I know that it is allmost impossible to winn without refills during battle and that air units do not hlp much because of bad weather and you have to fight a lot in city terrain. So artilery and nfantry/pioners are most important units in the game.
Thanks for the great info! Good to hear that you like my General set up. We'll see how it goes in Moscow. I need to get a prestige bank going to tackle the problems you are talking about. Thanks for the comment!
I am watching to see, if I want to purchase this game. My expertise is for HOI4. There it is absolutely necessary for Germany to act fast, furious & focused for the reasons you give. Hesitation & procrastination only lead to defeat. Interesting that this concept is also in PC2. Certainly it is an historical imperative
I would suggest buying it. I know you are a HOI4 Germany player like myself and we seem to share similair interests. It is extremely enternaining for myself, especially in these times.
In my first complete campaign I played with:
+ Panzer General
+ Liberator
+ Master of Bitzkrieg
- No overstrength
+ AA Veteran
- Inefficient supply
- Trench slog
Took the West Coast on turn 16 with about 35k in prestige. Of all the negative trait, I would say Trench Slog is the easiest one to get away with, just make sure to get a lot of engineers which are one of the best units in the game anyway so why not? And a LOT of artillery. By final scenario I had 8 Hummels, 6 engineers and 3 flame tanks. City defenders just melted.
Next game I will DEFINITELY swap out Liberator with Trophies of War because not only do you get more prestige you actually get enough enemy equipment to use it while it is still worth using.
Is trophies of war that good? Someone else told me the same thing. It is y understanding that the units HP at the time of encirclement is converted into prestige. If so, how many encirclements and how much prestige are you net positive in a typical scenario?
@@ESG1 I would say TOW is definitely much better in terms of prestige. I mean one capture of an enemy cav unit probably generates about as much as all of the extra prestige in a scenario from liberator. Especially if you know the scenario well like the early Poland campaigns where you know roughly when it's safe to encircle and how much extra time you have to play with. I'm a little concerned that as the scenarios get tougher, it will be harder to take the time to capture and also risk damage from splitting units. It greatly helps to include Deadly Grasp, Master of Blitzkrieg, Perim control, Flexible command. They really all work together but that is also a lot of commander traits.
I prefer Trophies of War to Liberator. You can absolutely generate more prestige with Trophies of War if you play to maximize surrenders. Deadly Grasp and Flexible Command both add tremendous synergy, allowing you to quickly surround enemy units and then surrender them.
That's what I am told. Does this only apply to regular difficulty? I tested this and on max difficulty it did not net that much prestige.
@@ESG1 Difficulty level doesn't have any impact on prestige from hex or unit capture. Difficulty prestige modifiers only apply to the per-turn prestige.
on hardest difficulty i find Green Army is the most punishing negative trait, i would rather use Trench Slog which is not that bad, just use units that ignore entrenchments against cities (there are both infantry and tanks that can do that), that is the easiest negative trait you can choose
I think it all depends on your play style. I have been getting easy victories so far with green army so I don't see it as a hinderance. We will see if the Soviet's can stop me.
@@ESG1 soviets dont have stars on units, but later UK/US units have 3-4 stars which means if your units dont have at least the same amount of stars on every unit, battle becomes too hard, i think every single negative trait is better than green army :-)
@@fixpontt I agree, I think Green Units is one of the worst negative traits and depending on the other difficulty settings may be a complete deal breaker. Unit experience has huge impact on how much damage you take.
No, no refill in battle is worse. Scenarios like moscow get allmost impossible with it...
@@ESG1 moscow will be the bench mark.
I'm going to try out with perimeter control next. I think killer team isn't so important unless you start in a later date. You can get those 3 heroes from Poland campaign. I always play with elites but I have so much more prestige since I play on regular difficulty. Elites kill greens so easily. Overall I feel elites are much better (but very costly, you can spend 400 on elite replacements for tanks) in Panzer Corps 2
Elites are most likely not viable at higher levels. I have yet to test it but it seems like you would run out of prestige and that would stop your offensive. Deffinetly better in a prestige rich environment.
@@ESG1 You can absolutely use elites at the highest levels . . . I'm currently playing a "Europe on a Shoestring" play through where you don't get any prestige per turn and still have enough prestige to use elite replacements for nearly all units.
The trick is to minimize damage to your units which is done with a combination of:
Defensive advance - keeping your advancing units covered with artillery/AT/AA support
Baiting the enemy - lure them into attacking your defended units
Maximizing unit experience - experienced units take MUCH less damage
Minimizing combat - by using surround and surrender
I have played diffrent set ups on generalism now. No refill during battle is deffinitly the hardest negativ to play with, id say. Concerning your build i still like it, even though there are quite some draw backs. Right now i would guess that playing without green army seems stronger to me. I find that i can safe way more prestige with elite/upgrade play styles, since i have to refill less. 2 star troops are a completly diffrent unit than none stars on generalism. Also i like the strategic flexibility of free upgrading.
I just started a campaign with allmost no negatives on barbarossa and i am with about 5k prestige banked at moscow now. Talking of which, i am guessing u will run into trouble there, since u will need a lot of refills in battle there, which are same price as elite refills after battle...
Basicly i am saying, playing elites safes lots of prestige during battle, just as supirior equipment does. You have to spent to much during battle and in the long run your none stars will keep losing more and more strength points vs. stronger units.
I am big fan of hex control, anything else is just a nice bonus. Tank and Infantry general is very nice too, as is iron grip. Killer team strongly deminishes in return later on. The general traits have the draw back, that the exp is split between troops but the are nice for the free overstrength on former 3 point troops.
What i really liked a lot was the anti air upgrade, since a couple of fighters is enough.
In general every unit, even anti tanks have a good use. I also like the storch a lot now!
Anyways, so much to write really.
Moscow is the bench mark. I know that it is allmost impossible to winn without refills during battle and that air units do not hlp much because of bad weather and you have to fight a lot in city terrain. So artilery and nfantry/pioners are most important units in the game.
Thanks for the great info! Good to hear that you like my General set up. We'll see how it goes in Moscow. I need to get a prestige bank going to tackle the problems you are talking about. Thanks for the comment!
I am watching to see, if I want to purchase this game. My expertise is for HOI4. There it is absolutely necessary for Germany to act fast, furious & focused for the reasons you give. Hesitation & procrastination only lead to defeat. Interesting that this concept is also in PC2. Certainly it is an historical imperative
I would suggest buying it. I know you are a HOI4 Germany player like myself and we seem to share similair interests. It is extremely enternaining for myself, especially in these times.