mTOR, Protein 🥩& Cancer: new science MIT's David Sabatini
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.ย. 2024
- Many people claim eating protein will raise mTOR and kick-start cancer in the body. Is this scientifically accurate?
We review new papers from David Sabatini (AKA the mTORman).
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Here's a link to the studies mentioned herein! bit.ly/mTOR-science
Any way to get this study without paying for a subscription to the journal?
Thank you!
I have changed my life so much for the better since finding this channel. Ken Berry, Thomas Delauer, Dr. Berg you all have such good info. It's too bad that everybody can't wake up and see the light on this subject. But I have seen the results already and I'm a believer, this is my new lifestyle! Thank you Mike!!
Jack Morris great that you are aware!
How many years do the relevant experts have to laugh at this ' information ' before you lot realise it's pseudoscience ?
"Dr" Berg is a chiropatric, pseudo science, and this channel has a lot of misinformation.
Most cancers thrive on glucose. Very few thrive on ketones. I would be much, much more concerned with overall carb intake than protein intake. Though if you're eating insane amounts of meat every day, some of that will get converted to glucose, and any cancer cells will jump ahead in line to gobble it. So if you're doing carnivore, you better be *using* all that protein you're eating. Work out. Lift weights, etc. Don't be sedentary. The body is smart. It will convert that excess protein into glucose. But yeah...biggest factor imo is how much carb a person is eating, especially refined sugar. Cancer loves SAD diet.
You can eat fat. You don't have to eat insane amounts of meat. Then there's fasting .
@@emh8861 For sure. I'm just thinking of these carnivore people who swear that gluconeogenesis is 'demand driven.' No evidence for that that I've seen. The body will turn some of that protein they're eating into glucose. Nature isn't wasteful :P and glucose is a valuable resource.
@@tommycharles4666 all cells thrive on glucose. The difference is Meat raises your risk of cancer, high carb foods like fruits are anti cancer
@@mikebrigandi_ That's complete nonsense. You can't just make blanket statements like 'meat raises risk of cancer.' I guarantee you, the basis of your claim is epidemiological studies. Those studies are basically worthless. They can't show causation and can't differentiate between junk food eaters and healthy high fat eaters. Also, there is nothing in fruit that is magically 'anti cancer.' Like many vegans, you're just making unsubstantiated claims. In fact, fruit contains no micronutrients you can't get from animal sources. And the animal sources are more bioavailable. There may be some value to the phytochemicals contained in the peel of the fruit, but that would have to be determined on a case by case basis. But you can't simply say, 'fruit is anti-cancer.' That is a silly statement with no basis in fact.
Tommy Charles GNG, is reportedly demand driven, and it would be logical. It is an expensive way to make sugar, so necessary for the brain perhaps, but, for a fat adapted person it doesn’t make sense to make sugar from protein for fuel when body fat is available.
Also, the mtor-cancer link seems to be tissue specific. I mean, muscle cancer is quite rare, as opposed to breast/prostate/whatever-non-muscle-organ cancers we are seeing all the time. So if you look at the effect of exercise for instance, it activates mtor in muscle cells. But it downregulates it in other tissues like the liver (at least in rodents). And that effect continues even after refeed post-exercise! So I'd argue that pairing fasting and exercise, and then eating *after* exercise might be an interesting strategy to downregulate mtor where we want it chronically low and upregulate it where we want it high sometimes (muscles and immune system).
Dodji Seketeli thanx you have great knowledge. Sense!
I like it
Yep, it's all about modulating mTor. downregulate (fasting) then upregulate (exercise / leucine activated via protein meal), though when you upregulate, mTor in other organs like the liver, heart etc have mTor upregulated (as in active), they (those organs) were just downregulated by fasting before exercise and that protein meal, so this fluctuation mitigates mTor hyperactivity or sustained mTor activation which contributes to illness.
Great info, thank you. Would love it if you could do a video on sweeteners and their affects on the body. Including D-ribose as its known to not raise glucose levels but does raise insulin. Is it safe to use as a sweetener etc. Thanks again
I believe if something tastes sweet it will raise insulin. Most digestive processes start in the mouth with taste buds getting stomach ready .
Athletes ,and bodybuilders in particular, eat high protein diets with meals every 3 hours. On top of that they use massive doses of growth hormone and anabolics.
So if stimulating chronic mTOR and IGF-1 will cause cancer, wouldn't we see an epidemic of cancer in pro builders? They usually end up having heart or kidney problems, but cancer does not seem to be more common than the average person.
Are there any studies showing a direct relationship in humans between mTOR, IGF-1, protein and cancer?
Thanks for the great videos!
Good point, can’t think of many pro bodybuilders that have gotten cancer
Jamie Davison thanks for the info. Source?
I came to this video to see the link between high protein and cancer because I just watched the video where one doctor who is also promoting fasting told in his video that there is very strong evidence between cancer and high protein 🤭 and for a second I was a little suprised. I am not sure did I knew it…or have heard about it. But to be honest athletes having a cancer more really don’t come to my head. Like you said it more remind me of heart problems but definitely not cancer 🤔
Well I think it also has to do with lifestyle as well. A lot of bodybuilders and athletes live extremely active lifestyles. Add that to not carrying much fat, and having better regulation of insulin and IGF-1 (to help with the muscle growth they just damaged) and I think they don’t have those sort of problems. I think that exercise is extremely important in regulation of all these things (considering we were hunter gatherers which require a lot of physical exercise). Most westerns have a sedentary lifestyle so the reduction of hormones that are “used for hunting and gathering” might be a good thing considering most North Americans don’t really exercise
a lot of pro bodybuilders die at a young age so they don't live enough to develop cancer
Listening to Dr. Bikkman on the subject of mTor, he said it stays elevated longer with carbs rather than protein. I trust him. With protein, the growth factor of insulin stays low . I believe he eats few if any carbs. Good presentation, Mike. Thank you
Would you agree, then, that if you are putting on muscle (naturally), are lean, and maintaining high insulin sensitivity, this would indicate that you are not chronically activating mTORC1, regardless of what you are eating?
Question... If somone were eating frequently, constantly activating Mtor, over what period of time could a person begin to have health problems like autoimmunity etc?
Weeks? Months? Years?
Timestamps for what im referring to:
2:42
3:16
Brilliant Mike! Thanks dude. You’re a star, you are saving lives for sure! And improving life quality for many as well 💪💪💪💪💪💪🙂👍🏼
Thank you Mike for doing this much needed video, correcting the overblown misconceptions about the dangers of mTOR activation. As with all other attempts to vilify a nutritional component, the only fair, balanced, and accurate way to assess the dangers or efficacy of something is to subsume it within an appropriate nutritional context. For example, I can "prove" Vitamin C is toxic by continuously infusing enough of it into a subject to induce diarrhea. By that logic, vegans should give up all the rich vitamin C vegetables and fruits. Obviously it would be foolish to think this when viewed through a more realistic nutritional lens. Vitamin C in whole fruits and vegetables don't exist in the concentrations necessary, and are limited by the large fiber quantity of fruit to be toxic. Similarly, within the framework of a diet that is punctuated by significant bouts of fasting, coupled with a low insulin state (i.e. through low carb diets), the likelihood of mTOR from protein causing cancer is unlikely. If more nutritional reporting actually contextualized whatever nutrient was being spoken about, instead of simply making an assessment as to the supposed dangers or benefits of that nutrient in isolation, we would not have erroneously demonized things like dietary saturated fat, dietary cholesterol, LDL, and we would not now be demonizing protein.
Additionally, it should be noted that IF mTOR activation due to protein was really a significant and likely contributing cause to cancer, then countries with very low per capita protein consumption should have very CONSISTENTLY low cancer rates. Conversely, countries with high protein consumption per capita should CONSISTENTLY have the highest cancer rates. This does not bear out when looking at the totality of the evidence. Just do two Google search: 1) Protein consumption by country 2) Cancer rates by country. You will see results that are all over the map. If the mTOR theory of cancer held true you should be able to draw a relatively straight line between per capita protein consumption and cancer. Yet there are countries with high per capita protein consumption that rank lower in per capita cancer rates, and vice versa.
Thanks!!!
Excellent observations!
Thanks, super interesting and informative. More is better on this info.
That's just great, now your corrupting the youth with Keto Vaping pens. 🤨
Tübermensch 😂😂 Actually it’s a testing technology but yeah looks like a vape! 🤷🏽♂️
@@Highintensityhealth haha I had to bust your chops..yesterday you were poking yourself with a needle, today a vape pipe - I couldn't resist.
😉 Keep up the informative content! 👍🏻
I literally had a dream last night about mTOR! I am very surprised!
bnsgokugreat Is that right? Wow!!
@@Highintensityhealth I was explaining mTor to some of the classmates in my dream :)
bnsgokugreat Lol.
I read that aminoacids activate mTOR, I wonder if l-cirtruline not being a proteic aminoacid will also actvate mTOR.
Should I stop taking amino acids???? 😳 I’m trying to stay healthy Leto, organic, supplements intermittent fasting.
I like BCAA intra or postworkout.
"Intermittent feeding" 👍
Angie S I love this term.
thank you for clarifying this. It was just what I was looking for.
So we shouldn't take hmb..?
Interested in the autophagy class you mentioned. Recent history of colon cancer with chemo and radiation so I probably have a lot of garbage floating around my cells. You mentioned a link to that but I didn’t see it.
Sorry, should have posted, here you go! courses.highintensityhealth.com/autophagy-enhancer-masterclass-fall
Just tried to register for this class and was denied. Said the class was over and could not register. Are you repeating the class?
Diane Lakata Hi Dianne! We had lots of calls in the Fall, one more live call this month but either way you have access to 20 plus video and such.
Will there be opportunities to ask questions?
Collagen an important ingredient for building sinew, tissue has got me a little confused. Some say gelatin is not sufficient way in which to get collagen, yet an Australian sports research showed that taking gelatin, then intense exercise showed increased levels of the tissue builders in the blood stream. Gelatin is fairly cheap, but these collagen supplements are very expensive when you consider you need to take on permanent basis, when you get older.
Doesn’t Sauna upregulate mTOR? Is this a risk
Great video. Thanks for the great information. Can you also do a video on glutamine and cancer cells proliferation.
great content...but did you put the link to Dr David Sabatini's paper? I couldn't locate it 🙂.
Nice chunk of info !👍
Great content as always Mike, thanks! Off topic question if you have a minute. Where'd you get that shirt your wearing? I have shirts like this that I love and are wearing out but the place where I used to get them doesn't sell them anymore. Been searching for a while now.
Not sure! There are so many colored shits like this!
@@Highintensityhealth Colored shits? I thought only the vegans had colored shits. :)
Finally, some clarity on this topic from the ketogenic/IF perspective.
Great video Mike! 👍
MCT coffee in morning won't activate MTOR? found out that they both have protein, surely this will break the fast minutely, so to truly fast, just water?
An IV of steak? Hmmm, I am intrigued.
Does the nutrient mix of an individual meal make a difference. Say if you had a steak, but increased your fat/oil intake with that meal and almost eliminate vegetable matter....
My husband, in perfect health otherwise, has mRCC. He's had 2 out of 4 Optivo/Yervoy treatments. We just found out his Genomic findings are MTOR-F1888L and VHL-R113. I have no idea what this means. But, I'm wondering if he should stop eating meat altogether? Are you familiar with Everolimus and Temsirolimus? Oncologist is recommending this combination if the first line doesn't work.
I’m an avid athlete both strength and endurance. I do intermittent fasting, mainly 16:8 for longevity purposes and fat burning. I know autophagy and AMPK are very important for leongevity...but I need to balance it with recovery and protein synthesis. My question is: I take HMB, a derivative of Leucine, which helps protein synthesis and mTor so I can recover with less protein consumption. Is this product good for my goals? And how do I supplement it like timing-wise with fasting? Thanks
I'm like half awake, I'll bet this makes more sense in a few hours..
Biosense breathe ketone meter is awesome also.
Thanks for the mtor talk.
What about Dr Berg who fully advocates the carnivore diet?
Maybe the statement that animal based protein fuel cancer is true but not from an mTOR/autophagic perspective alone, but also from the perspective of what also accompanies animal protein.
A purely plant based diet is considered a routine kind of fast as well and as such would be easier to get to autophagic stimulus.
Plant proteins are different as well in terms of there accessibility seeing they are not as bio-available as animal protein.
My opinion is that there may be more room for error with a clean plant based diet all things being equal.
David Sinclair (20 yr old biological/50 yr old chronologically) quit meat and eats only once a day. He noted a huge reversal in his Epigenetic age since following this. You really should read the Harvard professors papers on increasing lifespan. If he could away with eating a steak once a day he would. How about you do dna methylation epigenetic aging test leaving meat out of diet for a month?
if you can spend 10- 12 hours without feeling hungry and you can function normal...then you are definitely burning fat. when i was eating carbs.. after 7 hours i feel like shit and i have to eat cause at hour 8 or 9 i would have a very low blood sugar. i used to eat beef and rice. stopped the rice replaced it with eggs and more butter. but i am very active. i do home painting.. electrician etc.. i basically burn all the caloried i eat and the day i am not working i am training in the gym
Really appreciate this review, as well as the responses. More importantly the response by @alphacause
4 years ago makes a lot of common sense.
Not entirely true, at anti-aging doses, rapamycin “eliminates hyperimmunity rather than suppresses immunity” or, more figuratively, it “rejuvenates immunity”
mutant whey is good for body builder
Thank you so much for this information. I am from 🇸🇦
Does consuming large amounts of animal protein cause acidic conditions in the body that create bone fracture?
No. The whole idea that the body becomes 'acidic' is dumb. Mike has another video on here w/ his wife where post MRI, they found that for a 40 year old woman... whose been carnivore and exercising regularly for 1 year... her bone structure/rigidity was similar to that of a 17 year old.
Cancer uses glucose and glutamine to metabolize , keto diet inhibits HIF-alpha one
How is tit that fasting is known for increasing human growth hormone HGH wich by its turn increases IGF-1 , how come you saying that fasting decreases IGF-1 ?
Thank you again :)
Very very helpful!
I like the KISS protocol.
What has been introduced, or upped massively in the last couple hundred years where all these diseases have blown up.
Well it certainly ain't Red meat and saturated natural fats.
Does the device only work for iPhones or is there an Android app as well?
Hi there! It does :-)
Is any of this tied into the N02 - Urea cycles. . .?
I recently learned that " In terms of insulin and leucine, if we compare those … insulin had a much greater effect on mTOR, turning it on. The insulin effect also acted much longer, on the order of three to four hours. Leucine certainly will turn mTOR on, but it has a lesser effect. I think, relatively speaking, at the risk of putting a number on it, it was about 30% less, and then it did it for only about 45 minutes to one hour."
Also " What we’re seeing here is we can activate mTOR with protein, specifically leucine load … But if we activate mTOR with leucine, it’s kind of on and then off about an hour later. If we activate mTOR with insulin, then it’s going to be on for three to four hours. People can leverage this in whatever direction they want."
Exercise 100 minutes a day and eat as much meat as you want. Your body will use the protein. Eat a carnivore diet and live a sedentary lifestyle? That's probably as bad as SAD diet. Some of that excess protein becomes glucose, which just sits around in the blood, providing perfect conditions for rouge cancer cells.
@@tommycharles4666 But what if we eat more carbs and be active? It's still worse right? I think eating a carnivore diet and being moderately active is acceptable :)
@@bnsgokugreat Insulin response to the protein will lock some of the glucose up, but not all of it, I don't think. So at least with high carb, ambient glucose levels in blood would be lower, in theory. Until the beta cells burn out, anyway. I just wouldn't do carnivore myself without also being physically active. Just me, though. My guess is that someone doing carnivore but being sedentary will have high fasting blood glucose, which is what cancer cells would love to see.
Definitely it’s about eating less frequent and less carbs
So too much meat is bad and you can probably get away with it in moderation....groundbreaking...
Define moderation lol
how do you get jacked on no mTor
Thanks for this explanation, concerning two sides of the coin
not all non veg same .. most Indians eat non veg but avoid beef and pork . and eat rarely..
So to clarify, in a world where it is all but impossible to avoid a regular, high level of exposure to multiple carcinogenic factors, we should eat in a way that we have to utilize fasting on a regular basis to (hopefully) decrease the cancer stimulating effects of the food we are eating?
Also interesting how u bring the vegan discussion in and say “many vegan foods” drive mTOR also when really you really mean “junk food” vegan or not.
Well all vegan foods contain one specific thing that separates them from meat.... carbs. And carbs are a sugar. And in order to get anywhere close to the same nutritional benefits of a vegan food... you'd have to consume it in large quantities. The end result is large amount of carbs which have a much large impact on mtor and insulin.
Nate Co not following your logic sorry.
@@naturodoc All vegan foods consist entirely of mostly carbs. Carbs are sugar. In order to get the recommended nutritional requirements after taking into account the actual bio availability of those foods, you'd have to consumes lots of calories. That equals lots of carbs, that the body converts into glucose.
It doesn't matter if the vegan food is 'junk food' or not.
OK. our opinions on this subject differ but thanks for your thoughts
Yep. The most nutrient dense plant foods like starches, nuts, and legumes are all pretty high in carbs.
Mike , can you give us that link ?
HI Mark--what link?
To the study on mTORC1.
I found it already and printed it out. Others may want to see it and have it also. I am a health coach in an Integrative Family Medical practice on Post Falls.
@@markmiller4013 ahh...yes...that's why I pinned the comment to the studies! bit.ly/mTOR-science Thanks good man and thanks for tuning in
I heard that after eating a protein meal, it stops autophagy, how many hours after eating protein does it take for autophagy to kick in again? Karen
022141able that’s a great question I hope we get answers soon 😉
If you are in a fasted state, eating anything will stop autophagy
The large carbohydrate companies (that have their product in almost all supermarket "foods") want you to believe this, that's for sure.
Man I am so confused.
Not all athletes consume meat.
It's funny how anti meat people talk about how bad protein is when it comes to animal foods. Well like they said the get protein from plants also. Protein from plants aren't as usable by our cells. Maybe it's the incomplete plant protein that has more of a negative impact on our bodies.
From The Plant Paradox by Dr. Gundry, I've learned that our bodies recycle protein on a regular basis, our gut mucous in particular. Incomplete proteins from one source will be balanced by those from another source. There is no urgency to consume complete proteins at one sitting.
Dr. Gundry also talks about a particular sugar molecule, associated with beef, pork and lamb which may be inflammatory to individuals whose immune response has been activated because of leaky gut and the lectins which mimics these sugars and then the immune system marks them as targets to be eliminated.
@@HuFlungDung2 Except that it's the sugar/carbs consumed in high quantities that cause leaky gut. Remove those, and your leaky gut issues go away. As far as a 'sugar' molecule associated w/ beef or any kind of meat... he must be talking about a process called gluconeogenesis (quick primer right here -> th-cam.com/video/nJhgOgpuGX0/w-d-xo.html There is no sugar molecule w/ meat. There is a process that can convert meat into glucose. But again... Consuming meat, and having the body convert that meat into glucose is far more controlled than consuming carbs/sugar. The first process would be like an fuel pumps providing appropriate amounts of gas to an engine, while the second process is more like simply dumping a gas onto the engine w/ buckets.
Android too?
Nancy Salvaggio Yep! Google play, Android and apple App Store
🙏
Love all you guys talking about 😁bravooooooo ✅🌺🌺🌺
Great info. Enjoy your vids. Your poor voice. You sound like you need a nice cup of tea for that sore throat. Feel better!
PS, please post info about your experience this year raising/harvesting your pigs. Ive thought about raising a pig in the future and would love to hear about thoughts on your experience, how you fed the pigs, time raised, etc.
Thanks, yeah I was getting something!
I use pea protein
Retro-encabulator!
Brain cancer was reversed on ketogenic diet.
It's funny how people overate with too-frequent feedings for decades and decades, Now, suddenly, we are worried about overstimulating mTOR?
From calorie model to real science. Will we ever survive it? or are we too damaged?
👍👍👍
why would i need to test for ketones ?Oo if i go fasting or cut out carbohydrates, ill produce them ? why would i want to see how many i produce ?
Buddha is quoted : find the middle way.
Too much of a good thing is bad. Dont go carnivore and then try to tweak it with fasting. Dont go vegan and try to tweak it with b12. Eat a little of each good thing.
no, 3 meals..
There are many mistakes here
poops
whole food plant based iis the way to go!
This dude does not know what he's talking about
🤮🤮🤮🤮
Another excuse video for meat .
It's a full time job trying to explain away the mainstream science to suit your low carb bias
the goatie doesnt suit u at all man.. lovexpeace
Dean J Yeah probably time to dump it!
One thing I've noticed about vegans when they watch videos like these....is they can't imagine going more than 3 hours without eating...so because they can't imagine that, they use words like 'extreme' when talking about keto diet or IF. They don't understand that we use a different type of metabolism and that we're not slaves to glucose roller coaster.
And what a brutal inflammation driving Roller Coaster it is!
Im vegan, high carb low fat, and i do intermittent fasting, sometimes 24 hours fasts . Im not always hungry, in fact im rarely hungry
@@mikebrigandi_ And you've 'been vegan' for what...3 months? Get back to me in 5 years about how often you're eating ;). Pulsitile insulin is better than several times a day, it's still going to have an impact on your beta cells, and ultimately, on your blood sugar.
@@tommycharles4666 2 years vegan
@@mikebrigandi_ So about 3 years from severe micronutrient deficiency. I'll be on the lookout for your "why I'm no longer vegan" video on YT ;) Deficiencies don't crop up over night. The body stores vast amounts in the bones, and it can recycle B12 for a while.