Heard someone describe it perfectly when they essentially said, "I'm a designer because I enjoy design. I don't need or want a computer to design for me. You and your programs are tools Adobe. You're a hammer and nails. Stop trying to be more than that."
I think the quote is true for designers who design for themselves or whoever values the creative process. But companies are companies. They design to produce a product, nothing more. A graphic designer is a tool for a company to create their product. In the future, if it turns out that the content manager can create most/all of their stuff with AI, then that's a more effective tool than hiring us designers. The quote is kinda gatekeeping Adobe as a tool for designers, when it could theoretically become a more useful tool for people above us.
@@rikard.h If you're concerned about accessibility, I personally think that canva is far better tool than Adobe's generative AI. It'd simpler, cheaper and faster with all the templates and everything for a non-designer. Adobe, as a tool, will not work for them. It is expensive and complicated beyond some basic moves for the designers themselves that we have to learn the functions! Aside from all this, the idea of generative AI, regardless of industry, is problematic at so so many levels. as designers, artists and just creative people it is our responsibility to save the value of our craft and not let ourselves be "just tools" and not living breathing people to the dance of this capitalism. AI is going to come, no matter what, and will go far beyond what we can humanly regulate. Just like privacy went out for a toss with internet and recent tech. People will comprise and choose to not acknowledge for the sake of convenience. It does not make it right. But this does not mean we let them do whatever without at least trying to be somewhat sensible about the use and regulations.
I think it's good that design school prepares us with all of the important tools that will be used in this industry. Very few areas will continue design without AI. So if you attend design school to help your career (rather than inspire your creative spirit or whatever), I don't see the complaint right now...
CHAPTERS 0:00 cold open (can of soda) 0:50 adobe partner 2:49 #adobefartner 4:19 design content creators 13:32 adobe max 24:00 sneaks 28:17 project remix a lot 37:01 project perfect blend 40:30 adobe company monopoly 46:32 project know how 50:42 adobe ai 53:51 presentation 58:26 adobe alternatives 1:00:13 security 1:01:27 final thoughts 1:08:06 content creation 1:17:50 the kelliot song and font of the week
This AI shit is literally so wild, I had a professor my last semester of college last year openly encourage students to use AI and even gave a demo on how to use it for their work. It felt so strange being the only one in the class who stuck to my guns and didn't use AI for any of my assignments- and to think this was a professor I had in the past who used to lecture for hours about needing to comply with copyright & being anti-plagiarism..... I also used Affinity for like 90% of my school work and literally none of my professors clocked it LOL
thank you i feel INSANE that everyone seems suddenly so fine with generative ai????? i am a college student and so many of my classmates use ai (mostly for writing but some use it in design classes) and it is so off putting???
As someone who graduated with design degree this summer I have to say your podcasts is the best what could happend to me. I never looked for carrer/ industry advice with my professors- the adivce they given were great ... for someone who has rich mom and dad. I turned to internet for advices and i feel like i have been fooled by "content creators that cosplay as freelancers" as Kel put it. When those ppl i put trust in started embracing AI I was really confused where i stand on this matter. Your podcast is really important for working class designers like myswlf. I feel like it truly helps me gather everything i learned and shape me as a designer ❤
"He doesn't give a shit in such a way that is so refreshing" is the best way to describe Draplin. Glad to hear he wasn't afraid of poking at the Adobe beast.
I'm glad they're calling out other creators because I swear Adobe Express is SOOO BAD. People in my feed are constantly promoting it which is in turn making me lose respect/trust for these people because I know they're selling out :( There are so many better tools to use
the amount of cheers and the attitude from the presenters was just cringy. You are totally right. It felt dystopian. Almost like Design Hunger Games and we are the districts bowing and cheering to the capital.
I am writing this 13 minutes into the video because i FEEL the anger too. Their push for AI is understandable because their idea of "something new" means something stolen. Soooo many ideas are blatantly taken from accessible-to-everyone type companies like Canva and Womp, and showcase it like they've invented it. They continue monopolize the graphic design industry so hard that its disgusting. And then charge what theyre charging monthly?? Truly gaslighting gatekeeping but definitely not girlbossing.
my illustrator is suddenly not letting me move things with my arrow keys and my photoshop crashes daily but sure let’s add a bunch of shitty ai features no one asked for! 🤪
thats where companies like procreate come in, where their ceo has publically stated that they are never going to incorporate ai into their design software and that ai bros can go fuck themselves lol. there are still some companies out there that deserve our money.
One of the hardest parts is also when clients believe this crap about gen ai and say “can we just generate a bunch of media designs with AI” 😮 Like the fuck we can Karen. 🤬 my response “sure! If you want the world’s worst designs and want to waste my time even more…” AI is not as advanced as clients think and it’s starting to hurt my heart :(
as a 3d vfx artist, elliots comment on blender was spot on. blender has an amazing involved community and is basically ran and improved by the users itself. truly shoutout to blender, do better adobass
i've spent hundreds of hours in illustrator because i love making art with it, it's really upsetting to see adobe trying to automate the entire design process
what's crazy to me is that the AI generative fill in photoshop has got SO BAD, that content-aware fill is now working better than the new AI tool. And don't even get me started on the 'select subject' tool, it's now selecting more backgorund than actual subject. WTF is this adobe.
im so glad someone else noticed this bc it has been not working well for me either! ill adjust the tolerance and it still selects the most random shit????? in addition to whatever I was trying to select.
I literally had a mock up photoshoot for a class, and literally all I needed to do was extend my solid pink backdrop to cover the whole background, and after like 12 horrible attempts I just gave up and did it myself. And that's the most basic command ever, I tried everything I was like, make the entire background pink, extend the background, fill the corners with pink... NOPE
The fact that Illustrator and Indesign still don't really talk to each properly is a mystery. I was there when Adobe bought freehand and didn't even bring in all the cool features. A tail as old as time... :(
I’m so glad to see yall two talk about the Adobe partner stuff going about; it feels like so many creators I follow are taking sponsorships from them and it’s a little disconcerting with the massive ai push Adobe is doing. Love listening to yall in the car! (Don’t worry I typed this comment when I got home 💛)
Adobe once started as a small group as well and cared about their audience, so it isn't about being a company of a small friendly people it's about how are you gonna grow and maintain the same spirit of that first group
If things keep going the way they’re going and sometime in the far / potentially not so far future the design space is ruined, i just know clips of this podcast will be used in a dramatic documentary series about adobe and AI
I’m so glad you guys are not being sponsored by adobe I’ve been feeling so sad seeing my fav illustrators and graphic designers raving about adobes ai features
Designers need to unite, we need to have our voices heard and not to feel afraid of a big company who acts like it is doing us a favor!!!!! WE ARE DESIGNERS, NOT PHOTOSHOP AND ILLUSTRATOR PROFESSIONALS, DESIGNERS!!! There is life beyond ADOBE!!! Lets goooooo
capitalism dictates that theyll just look to the next bidder. i know i sound like a tankie, but ai "art" is the ultimate commodification of human effort for corporate profit. good enough is good enough to the ceos making hand over fist overclcoking water cooled gpus for midjourney generations. you need unionization not individual protest but we have gutted said means of community
Also I'm new here, don't know if you guys have already talked about this, but I sort of understand when you say "only 4 people who understand us". People either seem to be completely blind to whatever is going on, or straight up defend Adobe. Their favorite argument seems to be that Adobe changed the industry (we're talking 20 odd years ago), and there are no other alternatives, so suck it up :(
As a non-native English speaker, I believed 100% in the Adobe ad at first. I was like, 'WTF, I’m going to close this video right now.' Then you revealed the truth. I ended up subscribing, haha. I hate AI!
It would be great if there were some content creators who do a like for like project in whatever alternative next to the Adobe app, so we can see both projects getting done. Personally, I'd start by switching from InDesign to something else, as that's a client intensive workflow for me.
I'm so glad you guys are talking about this! As Kel said, it not only feels like gaslighting, it is. Seeing so many creators supporting this shitshow really made me confused. That was a relief. Great content as always! 🧡 PS you both has no business looking this good in this episode 💅
i have spoken alot privately as mainly a concert photographer but also a graphic designer on the amount of AI features that adobe is trying to push. YOU CAN REMOVE OBJECTS WITHOUT AI. IT IS POSSIBLE. it's so infuriating actually to even think about mainly.
i think another aspect adobe isn't ready for is the fact that some companies are enacting "no ai" policies. i work for a magazine and we cannot us it, per our new policy. the ONLY thing that can be useful is using photoshop ai for masking or extending the background of an image. but even then so, most of the time it doesn't even work properly and you have to fix the work that it did. soooo disappointed that adobe is moving in this direction
all of these features are perfect for designers who can't design lol. one of my old clients (Big Pizza) took their design in house with such a designer and I can see her using that make a sketch into a flyer feature. very sad to see this is what they're catering to
What's so depressing is, that the Halloween party generative reformating feature will actually help me at me job 😭😭😭 and correct, my job does require no actual design skills and yes they do constantly type out "wow you work so fast" "can we get this design in 12 different sizes by end of day?" 💀🏳️
I think the remix feature can be great in the early stages of a project if you have a client who barely knows what format they want their information in. Make one layout, remix it, show client and let them pick their fav, if they picked a remix version just re-work your original file manually. Time saved.
it truly is so disheartening to see sooo many people adhering to ai so blindly and excitedly…. a few days ago i was so angry about it that i started crying truly… its good to know im not raging alone 😭🤝
I genuinely don't think there is a "better" alternative to Adobe if you're a full-time designer working with clients and vendors; holistically speaking.
My boss wanted me to do Adobe Max to see if there was anything valuable that I could return to the team with...I was SO disappointed during the keynote and I purposefully chose online sessions that weren't centered around AI and most of them still were.
considering the cost per ticket, I would have been furious if I paid $2k to be told ai is soooooo slaaaaayyyyyyyyyy and I should simply accept it. convinced adobe max is some sort of money laundering scheme.
I’m new to GD and I was dragging my feet learning adobe because it was overwhelming and now I’m glad I didn’t learn it and I can just stick to other programs 😅
"It’s estimated that a search driven by generative AI uses four to five times the energy of a conventional web search. Within years, large AI systems are likely to need as much energy as entire nations. And it’s not just energy. Generative AI systems need enormous amounts of fresh water to cool their processors and generate electricity." - Nature Amusing ourselves to death, its so damn depressing.
It seems like it's marketing to non-designers (esp that sketch thing) but why would somebody who's not a designer spend hundreds of dollars on a subscription to this when there's tons of free alternatives?? and those are usually better + easier to use. I'm not a graphic designer but for an internship I had to used express, which is geared towards non-designers, and it's so lacking in comparison to canva. even just moving around items when you're zoomed in becomes much harder bc of an automatic sidebar popup
Thanks for talking about this. I am just as upset and deeply concerned as you both are. My day job is in design for an -undisclosed awful company- and Adobe's generative AI has unfortunately become a massive part of my day to day job. This is 100% being sold to non-creative people to take all of the creativity and joy out of the creative people's jobs, so that we can make more and more and more stuff for the same pay.
Im so glad my algorithm led me here. I have been feeling isolated as well. I have fellow creatives who were excited abt certain AI features that are taking away things from us
I've decided to stop making new years resolutions but top of my goal for 2025 is to stop my subscription for adobe. Im just waiting unti expires in April next year. Definitely looking into transitioning to other programs
First of all, I want to thank you guys for making me feel not as alone on my stance against generative AI, becuase I've really felt like I was the only sane person tbh. Thank tou for your content and the community you are creating! But I want to talk about point that you've made on 56:58. I think that people that are getting the bag from adobe, that are using their gimmicky shite are not the people who are really enjoying the process of designing nor do they care about industry. They just whant to get it over with and make money, not create something that they love, or even simply enjoy the smallest bit. But I guess you are not talking to those kind of people and that was implied 🙃 Anyways, love ya guys.
no its not you I cannot find it and Elliot is on do not disturb on his vacation and I refuse to disrupt his peace. he sometimes gets unreleased fonts and forgets theyre not public lmao. when I find it, I will report back!!!!!
i'm on it for two years now, and it really earned my heart. You miss some features like 1% of the time, but it's more user friendly like 99% of the time. easier to use no joke!! Especially in comparison to like InDesign, i hate that shit...
has anyone else tried affinity? I have the trial on my personal laptop because adobe is too expensive for just working on passion projects… I want to love affinity but I need it to be soooooo much better. It’s missing a lot currently :(
The only Adobe software I use is Substance Painter, which I used before they bought it and still only use because I still have my perpetual license... I'm heavily sideeyeing Marmoset Toolbag atm tho, partly bc I just don't want to support Adobe and other subscription only companies. Subscription models are, in my opinion, just not viable for me as a hobbyist who maybe will earn a few extra bucks in the future with it
Love this convo, as a graphic designer that enjoy the process from sketch to excution, I literally took the time to teach my self 3D and Motion graphic (in Blender). Why?, because I much rather learn #1 a new skill and #2 how to make EVERYTHING myself as oppose to type (x,y,z) and have it generated for me. Also looking for better alternatives that are not as heavy ai inspired. Any thoughts?
Adobe's direction is not good atm - wasn't since years if not a decade if you ask me - but they did not start it, they just filled the demand as they usually do. Despite the fact holding the monopoly in the creative field, Adobe is not very creative when it comes to implementing or creating new features. Canva is not a win for graphic design. If you want to discuss the downfall of creative work as we know it, you should start with Canva because it did add a big chunk to the downfall, even before AI was a thing. And btw, Canva is pushing AI too, just not with the same budget power as Adobe. The Problem is not Adobe or Canva in particular, but the "Designers/Artists" itself. They create the demand and the market. Sites like 99designs were bad for design and creativity, but they grew because "designers" used them. Canva did become a problem for creative work, but "designers" did use it and made it big. Adobe, our loved / hated truffle pig, saw a decrease in users and started the direction they are on rn: Simplifying their apps to reach more people, which led to the current state... unstable apps, features which simplify the process but decrease creativity for professionals or artists. I don't think the direction is to boycott Adobe, but rather to urge for a split inside the apps. Canva is not the solution, it's part of the problem. Give us a simple, stable professional Adobe app with all key features + without the shenanigans and put all the other simplified and experimental stuff into a reduced starter app or even as plugins, which can be activated if needed. If y'all want to stop AI, then stop use it. And yes, there are many people using it. Adobe wouldn't invest in it if this would not be the case.
OOp! saying the quiet part outloud, we love to see it~! #NoMoreGenAI EDIT: Is adobe cloud a thing even anymore? I thought they murked that service so that they could use the server space to pollute our environment more to make AI stuff?
Adobe, to remain competitive in this new AI era, need to also have AI tools. But at least you can use AI as much or as little as you want and need. Having those tools conveniently integrated into Photoshop and Illustrator is easier for the users, vs. having a 3rd party workflow. This isn't just an Adobe issue - all creative software either is, or will have AI.
God, that resize flyer with ai was so silly, i saw a bunch of reels about it, but the example they used was so dumb, like the elements were not that difficult to arrange lol. This feels like adobe is no longer for designers, but this is a terrible decision, cause a client looking for a cheap design is NOT paying an adobe subscription to use your silly flyer resize.
Rn i feel like the Jack of all traids but a master of none is the best place to be. To know how to make tangible/Analog/physical design. To know how to work the graphics. But also sculpture and drawing and sowing and electronics .etc
I would also say social media is, making it look like you get a word like Banana and Cake then make a logo Banana Cake ... thumbs up, green tick....designers were all laughing at Canva now look at the madness hehe
Heard someone describe it perfectly when they essentially said, "I'm a designer because I enjoy design. I don't need or want a computer to design for me. You and your programs are tools Adobe. You're a hammer and nails. Stop trying to be more than that."
I think the quote is true for designers who design for themselves or whoever values the creative process. But companies are companies. They design to produce a product, nothing more.
A graphic designer is a tool for a company to create their product. In the future, if it turns out that the content manager can create most/all of their stuff with AI, then that's a more effective tool than hiring us designers.
The quote is kinda gatekeeping Adobe as a tool for designers, when it could theoretically become a more useful tool for people above us.
as a writer, i completely relate [about the overusage of generated content over creativity]!
@@rikard.h If you're concerned about accessibility, I personally think that canva is far better tool than Adobe's generative AI. It'd simpler, cheaper and faster with all the templates and everything for a non-designer. Adobe, as a tool, will not work for them. It is expensive and complicated beyond some basic moves for the designers themselves that we have to learn the functions!
Aside from all this, the idea of generative AI, regardless of industry, is problematic at so so many levels. as designers, artists and just creative people it is our responsibility to save the value of our craft and not let ourselves be "just tools" and not living breathing people to the dance of this capitalism.
AI is going to come, no matter what, and will go far beyond what we can humanly regulate. Just like privacy went out for a toss with internet and recent tech. People will comprise and choose to not acknowledge for the sake of convenience. It does not make it right. But this does not mean we let them do whatever without at least trying to be somewhat sensible about the use and regulations.
Literally this. The end.
just got an uni assignment to create an image with generative ai .. ........ yesss design school
Same here. Last semester and it was the most horrid results. We still had to edit these ai images but still, I was so disgusted by it honestly
Whaaat
What school?
this is saddening wtf
I think it's good that design school prepares us with all of the important tools that will be used in this industry. Very few areas will continue design without AI. So if you attend design school to help your career (rather than inspire your creative spirit or whatever), I don't see the complaint right now...
CHAPTERS
0:00 cold open (can of soda)
0:50 adobe partner
2:49 #adobefartner
4:19 design content creators
13:32 adobe max
24:00 sneaks
28:17 project remix a lot
37:01 project perfect blend
40:30 adobe company monopoly
46:32 project know how
50:42 adobe ai
53:51 presentation
58:26 adobe alternatives
1:00:13 security
1:01:27 final thoughts
1:08:06 content creation
1:17:50 the kelliot song and font of the week
This AI shit is literally so wild, I had a professor my last semester of college last year openly encourage students to use AI and even gave a demo on how to use it for their work. It felt so strange being the only one in the class who stuck to my guns and didn't use AI for any of my assignments- and to think this was a professor I had in the past who used to lecture for hours about needing to comply with copyright & being anti-plagiarism.....
I also used Affinity for like 90% of my school work and literally none of my professors clocked it LOL
thank you i feel INSANE that everyone seems suddenly so fine with generative ai????? i am a college student and so many of my classmates use ai (mostly for writing but some use it in design classes) and it is so off putting???
Even for writing thats pretty sad :/ You aren't alone
The Art World with few exceptions is very much *not* OK with it. The Design World does seem oddly Silent/Complacent/Complicit.
What if we just fill the adobe cloud with anti-adobe propaganda 👀👀
✍️✍️
As someone who graduated with design degree this summer I have to say your podcasts is the best what could happend to me. I never looked for carrer/ industry advice with my professors- the adivce they given were great ... for someone who has rich mom and dad. I turned to internet for advices and i feel like i have been fooled by "content creators that cosplay as freelancers" as Kel put it. When those ppl i put trust in started embracing AI I was really confused where i stand on this matter. Your podcast is really important for working class designers like myswlf. I feel like it truly helps me gather everything i learned and shape me as a designer ❤
that beginning adobe collab skit is hilarious
I was so confused for a second lmao but yes genius
"He doesn't give a shit in such a way that is so refreshing" is the best way to describe Draplin. Glad to hear he wasn't afraid of poking at the Adobe beast.
I'm glad they're calling out other creators because I swear Adobe Express is SOOO BAD. People in my feed are constantly promoting it which is in turn making me lose respect/trust for these people because I know they're selling out :( There are so many better tools to use
Yeah, it doesn’t even have guides and rulers, which are a basic feature that Canva had for a long time. I can’t design without guides.
kel u look so good in this episode wtf
elliot is also serving wowwww
The highlighter…chef’s kiss
Omg ro, hi!
@@roramdinthank you ro ❤❤❤
@@uultramarinehuda beauty rose quartz palette 🙂↕️🫶
not me taking 30 mins to realize it says a-boob-e lmao thanks dyslexia
Better than me. Straight up 40 minutes of me wondering who the hell Generative Phil is 🤣
@@OutlierGraphix 🤣🤣
the amount of cheers and the attitude from the presenters was just cringy. You are totally right. It felt dystopian. Almost like Design Hunger Games and we are the districts bowing and cheering to the capital.
I am writing this 13 minutes into the video because i FEEL the anger too. Their push for AI is understandable because their idea of "something new" means something stolen. Soooo many ideas are blatantly taken from accessible-to-everyone type companies like Canva and Womp, and showcase it like they've invented it. They continue monopolize the graphic design industry so hard that its disgusting. And then charge what theyre charging monthly?? Truly gaslighting gatekeeping but definitely not girlbossing.
my illustrator is suddenly not letting me move things with my arrow keys and my photoshop crashes daily but sure let’s add a bunch of shitty ai features no one asked for! 🤪
letting this episode play in the back while i work on something on illustrator is so vibes
the thing is, because adobe does it, other programs follow the lead, so learning new programs is a moving target.
thats where companies like procreate come in, where their ceo has publically stated that they are never going to incorporate ai into their design software and that ai bros can go fuck themselves lol. there are still some companies out there that deserve our money.
At this point... All these companies deserve to be pirated.
One of the hardest parts is also when clients believe this crap about gen ai and say “can we just generate a bunch of media designs with AI” 😮 Like the fuck we can Karen. 🤬 my response “sure! If you want the world’s worst designs and want to waste my time even more…”
AI is not as advanced as clients think and it’s starting to hurt my heart :(
as a 3d vfx artist, elliots comment on blender was spot on. blender has an amazing involved community and is basically ran and improved by the users itself. truly shoutout to blender, do better adobass
i've spent hundreds of hours in illustrator because i love making art with it, it's really upsetting to see adobe trying to automate the entire design process
what's crazy to me is that the AI generative fill in photoshop has got SO BAD, that content-aware fill is now working better than the new AI tool. And don't even get me started on the 'select subject' tool, it's now selecting more backgorund than actual subject. WTF is this adobe.
im so glad someone else noticed this bc it has been not working well for me either! ill adjust the tolerance and it still selects the most random shit????? in addition to whatever I was trying to select.
@@kelliotpod 😫 we’re all in the same sinking boat
I literally had a mock up photoshoot for a class, and literally all I needed to do was extend my solid pink backdrop to cover the whole background, and after like 12 horrible attempts I just gave up and did it myself. And that's the most basic command ever, I tried everything I was like, make the entire background pink, extend the background, fill the corners with pink... NOPE
internet won't be able to handle kelliot + draplin collab (desperately need this to happen)
The fact that Illustrator and Indesign still don't really talk to each properly is a mystery. I was there when Adobe bought freehand and didn't even bring in all the cool features. A tail as old as time... :(
I’m so glad to see yall two talk about the Adobe partner stuff going about; it feels like so many creators I follow are taking sponsorships from them and it’s a little disconcerting with the massive ai push Adobe is doing. Love listening to yall in the car! (Don’t worry I typed this comment when I got home 💛)
THESE ADOBE SLANDER VIDEOS ARE EVERYTHING to me 😂
they said it finally. im not willing to give my money to Amazon or Adobe
Adobe once started as a small group as well and cared about their audience, so it isn't about being a company of a small friendly people it's about how are you gonna grow and maintain the same spirit of that first group
If things keep going the way they’re going and sometime in the far / potentially not so far future the design space is ruined, i just know clips of this podcast will be used in a dramatic documentary series about adobe and AI
This is the first time you guys hit my algorithm, very down for what you do. I’m so excited to hear more from the two of you.
1 project on figma makes going back to illustrator feel like you're in the early 2000's
I’m so glad you guys are not being sponsored by adobe I’ve been feeling so sad seeing my fav illustrators and graphic designers raving about adobes ai features
Designers need to unite, we need to have our voices heard and not to feel afraid of a big company who acts like it is doing us a favor!!!!!
WE ARE DESIGNERS, NOT PHOTOSHOP AND ILLUSTRATOR PROFESSIONALS, DESIGNERS!!! There is life beyond ADOBE!!! Lets goooooo
capitalism dictates that theyll just look to the next bidder. i know i sound like a tankie, but ai "art" is the ultimate commodification of human effort for corporate profit. good enough is good enough to the ceos making hand over fist overclcoking water cooled gpus for midjourney generations. you need unionization not individual protest but we have gutted said means of community
Also I'm new here, don't know if you guys have already talked about this, but I sort of understand when you say "only 4 people who understand us". People either seem to be completely blind to whatever is going on, or straight up defend Adobe. Their favorite argument seems to be that Adobe changed the industry (we're talking 20 odd years ago), and there are no other alternatives, so suck it up :(
1:13:02 The second hand Yeti Snowball sitting in front of me really appreciates this
we are both hardcore yeti snowball stans
kel where is your glasses from is it red light tinted to block blue light or its just sunglasses?
As a non-native English speaker, I believed 100% in the Adobe ad at first. I was like, 'WTF, I’m going to close this video right now.' Then you revealed the truth. I ended up subscribing, haha. I hate AI!
It would be great if there were some content creators who do a like for like project in whatever alternative next to the Adobe app, so we can see both projects getting done. Personally, I'd start by switching from InDesign to something else, as that's a client intensive workflow for me.
Adobe as a company just gives those nefarious Elon Musk vibes
adobe is the cybertruck of computer programs now
I'm so glad you guys are talking about this! As Kel said, it not only feels like gaslighting, it is. Seeing so many creators supporting this shitshow really made me confused.
That was a relief. Great content as always! 🧡
PS you both has no business looking this good in this episode 💅
I recently quit using adobe products bc of all the stupid stuff going on with them wtf are they doing man
i have spoken alot privately as mainly a concert photographer but also a graphic designer on the amount of AI features that adobe is trying to push. YOU CAN REMOVE OBJECTS WITHOUT AI. IT IS POSSIBLE. it's so infuriating actually to even think about mainly.
Just started the episode, but I hope Kel mentions the designer who tried to "diss" their portfolio on Twitter.
sadly we recorded this mere HOURS before that happened……
Graphic design twitter sounds like a wild place I couldn’t imagine jahdbdbsbbd
My cursor has been flickering for 4 years but thank god we have generative color palettes
i think another aspect adobe isn't ready for is the fact that some companies are enacting "no ai" policies. i work for a magazine and we cannot us it, per our new policy. the ONLY thing that can be useful is using photoshop ai for masking or extending the background of an image. but even then so, most of the time it doesn't even work properly and you have to fix the work that it did. soooo disappointed that adobe is moving in this direction
all of these features are perfect for designers who can't design lol. one of my old clients (Big Pizza) took their design in house with such a designer and I can see her using that make a sketch into a flyer feature. very sad to see this is what they're catering to
CHAT WHY IS THE AI TOUCAN ON THE NEW PHOTOSHOP LOADING SCREEN THERES NO ESCAPING IT
flop toucan........
What's so depressing is, that the Halloween party generative reformating feature will actually help me at me job 😭😭😭 and correct, my job does require no actual design skills and yes they do constantly type out "wow you work so fast" "can we get this design in 12 different sizes by end of day?" 💀🏳️
Glad I made the switch to Affinity, and looking at open source alternatives.
Kel you forgot to put the episode number in the title
bless thank YOU
I think the remix feature can be great in the early stages of a project if you have a client who barely knows what format they want their information in. Make one layout, remix it, show client and let them pick their fav, if they picked a remix version just re-work your original file manually. Time saved.
it truly is so disheartening to see sooo many people adhering to ai so blindly and excitedly…. a few days ago i was so angry about it that i started crying truly… its good to know im not raging alone 😭🤝
I genuinely don't think there is a "better" alternative to Adobe if you're a full-time designer working with clients and vendors; holistically speaking.
Thank you both for spearheading this conversation. Such an important topic and y’all are so refreshing to listen to!
My boss wanted me to do Adobe Max to see if there was anything valuable that I could return to the team with...I was SO disappointed during the keynote and I purposefully chose online sessions that weren't centered around AI and most of them still were.
considering the cost per ticket, I would have been furious if I paid $2k to be told ai is soooooo slaaaaayyyyyyyyyy and I should simply accept it. convinced adobe max is some sort of money laundering scheme.
i went to max many years ago and while the atmosphere and hanging out with like minded creatives is amazing the actual event is just kinda pointless.
Kinda glad photoshop got left behind. I am always scared of good things getting ruined just for the sake of 'improvements'
Congrats on the Adobe sponsorship! - If the opportunity presents, could you ask them to keep the ticked checked in the colour dialogue in Illustrator?
I’m new to GD and I was dragging my feet learning adobe because it was overwhelming and now I’m glad I didn’t learn it and I can just stick to other programs 😅
Unfortunately, there's not going to be any way to avoid AI in the future. ALL companies are in a race to develop the best AI.
"It’s estimated that a search driven by generative AI uses four to five times the energy of a conventional web search. Within years, large AI systems are likely to need as much energy as entire nations. And it’s not just energy. Generative AI systems need enormous amounts of fresh water to cool their processors and generate electricity." - Nature
Amusing ourselves to death, its so damn depressing.
It seems like it's marketing to non-designers (esp that sketch thing) but why would somebody who's not a designer spend hundreds of dollars on a subscription to this when there's tons of free alternatives?? and those are usually better + easier to use. I'm not a graphic designer but for an internship I had to used express, which is geared towards non-designers, and it's so lacking in comparison to canva. even just moving around items when you're zoomed in becomes much harder bc of an automatic sidebar popup
Thanks for talking about this. I am just as upset and deeply concerned as you both are. My day job is in design for an -undisclosed awful company- and Adobe's generative AI has unfortunately become a massive part of my day to day job. This is 100% being sold to non-creative people to take all of the creativity and joy out of the creative people's jobs, so that we can make more and more and more stuff for the same pay.
Damn, I've listened to three minutes of this, and I already love both of you immensely.
Me too. I’ve been cringing the whole time. They didn’t make any new tools or fix any of the tiresomely broken ones.
Im so glad my algorithm led me here. I have been feeling isolated as well. I have fellow creatives who were excited abt certain AI features that are taking away things from us
I've decided to stop making new years resolutions but top of my goal for 2025 is to stop my subscription for adobe. Im just waiting unti expires in April next year. Definitely looking into transitioning to other programs
This is my first episode and I totally believed the first part and thought that I can't believe am discovering this podcast the moment it turned bad
lovin kel's energy in this video
First of all, I want to thank you guys for making me feel not as alone on my stance against generative AI, becuase I've really felt like I was the only sane person tbh. Thank tou for your content and the community you are creating!
But I want to talk about point that you've made on 56:58. I think that people that are getting the bag from adobe, that are using their gimmicky shite are not the people who are really enjoying the process of designing nor do they care about industry. They just whant to get it over with and make money, not create something that they love, or even simply enjoy the smallest bit.
But I guess you are not talking to those kind of people and that was implied 🙃
Anyways, love ya guys.
why can't i find pangram pangram plaid anywhere is it just me
no its not you I cannot find it and Elliot is on do not disturb on his vacation and I refuse to disrupt his peace. he sometimes gets unreleased fonts and forgets theyre not public lmao. when I find it, I will report back!!!!!
Which kind of design do you do? Portfolio link?
Needed this! All these adobe agents was starting to make me feel bad for sailing the seas
what are the alternatives your recommend? When I go to work job I have to use adobe though
THANK YOU FOR YOUR VOICES !!!
"I would've taken a Pentagram brand" 😭😂
I fear that Elliot must find the Jade Monkey before the next full moon, or the Adobe curse is going to consume him fully
finally a good podcast for designers
I love you guys Thank you for voicing your opinions boldly out here. I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. F**k Adobe
this has been such an interesting discussion to listen to. what alternatives would you recommend?
Just downloaded Affinity, lol
i'm on it for two years now, and it really earned my heart. You miss some features like 1% of the time, but it's more user friendly like 99% of the time. easier to use no joke!! Especially in comparison to like InDesign, i hate that shit...
has anyone else tried affinity? I have the trial on my personal laptop because adobe is too expensive for just working on passion projects… I want to love affinity but I need it to be soooooo much better. It’s missing a lot currently :(
Every dollar I can take from an American Designer is a win for me
The only Adobe software I use is Substance Painter, which I used before they bought it and still only use because I still have my perpetual license... I'm heavily sideeyeing Marmoset Toolbag atm tho, partly bc I just don't want to support Adobe and other subscription only companies. Subscription models are, in my opinion, just not viable for me as a hobbyist who maybe will earn a few extra bucks in the future with it
Love this convo, as a graphic designer that enjoy the process from sketch to excution, I literally took the time to teach my self 3D and Motion graphic (in Blender). Why?, because I much rather learn #1 a new skill and #2 how to make EVERYTHING myself as oppose to type (x,y,z) and have it generated for me. Also looking for better alternatives that are not as heavy ai inspired.
Any thoughts?
respect and it’s definitely worth it
Adobe's direction is not good atm - wasn't since years if not a decade if you ask me - but they did not start it, they just filled the demand as they usually do. Despite the fact holding the monopoly in the creative field, Adobe is not very creative when it comes to implementing or creating new features. Canva is not a win for graphic design. If you want to discuss the downfall of creative work as we know it, you should start with Canva because it did add a big chunk to the downfall, even before AI was a thing. And btw, Canva is pushing AI too, just not with the same budget power as Adobe.
The Problem is not Adobe or Canva in particular, but the "Designers/Artists" itself. They create the demand and the market. Sites like 99designs were bad for design and creativity, but they grew because "designers" used them. Canva did become a problem for creative work, but "designers" did use it and made it big. Adobe, our loved / hated truffle pig, saw a decrease in users and started the direction they are on rn: Simplifying their apps to reach more people, which led to the current state... unstable apps, features which simplify the process but decrease creativity for professionals or artists.
I don't think the direction is to boycott Adobe, but rather to urge for a split inside the apps. Canva is not the solution, it's part of the problem. Give us a simple, stable professional Adobe app with all key features + without the shenanigans and put all the other simplified and experimental stuff into a reduced starter app or even as plugins, which can be activated if needed.
If y'all want to stop AI, then stop use it. And yes, there are many people using it. Adobe wouldn't invest in it if this would not be the case.
Kel... oh my god we NEED the hair care and styling routine please
tysm I am in an intimate relationship with my mane 'its giving body' thermal round brush :-)
OOp! saying the quiet part outloud, we love to see it~! #NoMoreGenAI
EDIT: Is adobe cloud a thing even anymore? I thought they murked that service so that they could use the server space to pollute our environment more to make AI stuff?
boycott adobe (actully. this time. Stop acting helpless)
inkscape, krita, davinci resolve, affinity suite
@@nostalgiagoredavinci resolve my beloved
Unfortunately Canva added an AI image generation feature...
Adobe, to remain competitive in this new AI era, need to also have AI tools. But at least you can use AI as much or as little as you want and need. Having those tools conveniently integrated into Photoshop and Illustrator is easier for the users, vs. having a 3rd party workflow.
This isn't just an Adobe issue - all creative software either is, or will have AI.
God, that resize flyer with ai was so silly, i saw a bunch of reels about it, but the example they used was so dumb, like the elements were not that difficult to arrange lol. This feels like adobe is no longer for designers, but this is a terrible decision, cause a client looking for a cheap design is NOT paying an adobe subscription to use your silly flyer resize.
i wonder if the future ai bot that writes my ai comments on the ai kelliot also thinks about what would be funny to comment for like five minutes
Rn i feel like the Jack of all traids but a master of none is the best place to be. To know how to make tangible/Analog/physical design. To know how to work the graphics. But also sculpture and drawing and sowing and electronics .etc
1:01:18 adobe smurf account
lmfaoooo
Thank your for making this video ❤❤ i hate AI so much and i hate that everyone is okay with it
my freakin fav episode yet
I would also say social media is, making it look like you get a word like Banana and Cake then make a logo Banana Cake ... thumbs up, green tick....designers were all laughing at Canva now look at the madness hehe
you do know Womp (May 2024) came out after Project neo (February 2024) , right?
I literally used Womp in a video of mine posted in August 2023 😀👍 - elliot
Yayy my two favourite designers
good fucking video
Mad funny that Adobe paid you so little considering how they keep making a good amount of profit every year.