It may not be satisfying for some, but we got 10 plays in (3 players) last year and had a blast! The game has its issues, but is still a good time, and led to very tense games where we were all trying to work out how to pull off a winning turn while trying to prevent anyone else from doing it first. The Hades and Hephaestus expansions were fun as well.
This was such an amazing review from the production to the very detailed and nuanced review. Really enjoyed this. I am hopeful Lords of Ragnarok is better. Debating if I’ll get the boats expansion or just the base.
Every game should be well thought out, test played and polished at the time it´s released. When hearing you talking about the 4 victory conditions, I´m thinking ok just modify the game; 1 random quest per player, or 4 different settings... The problem is that you as player shouldn't experience the flaws of game rules, to fix them for yourself in order to make a game playable or entertaining. I had this experience with GWS Cursed City which has, out of the box, a terrible written rulebook and flawed game mechanics. For 160,-$ thats not enough.
Yeah a lot of big Kickstarter games justify their stretch-goals with tons of miniatures, but the miniatures often barely matter to the game. I played a few that my friend's picked up and they just feel kind of clunky, like they were designed to satisfying backer rewards and not designed to be a fun satisfying game.
this is one of the sadder aspects to kickstarter! I get it that they're trying to appeal to more gamers, but I feel like it's an initial impression vs delayed disappointment in the game, which isn't worth it! Totally wish the gameplay delivered on such a stunning game like this one
You nailed this. I wanted to love this game, and instead it feels like they tossed in everything and the kitchen sink. Cool ideas that just needed to be refined and tied together better. (Oh, and gut that questing system, because its sucks.)
YES that analogy is on point! idk why losing your champion for 3 turns made it to the final part, but we really weren't a fan of questing and practically no one played into quests!
Rules on my table 1 - The Hero who lost a Fight by a Monster = We put Tolkien of FEAR on him = 5 Turns without Attack same Monster 2 - Blessing Draft = ONLY who build can CHOSE the blassing, the rest pick up a random Blessing from hand.
I just picked this game up at about half retail so was pretty excited to give it a try. I now feel like half retail sounds about right, even not having played it yet. I guess somebody really needs to sit down and re-design some of the gameplay to make it feel more gratifying.
In my dozen or so plays, we never once had a fully built monument. Players won mostly from controlling 2 lands. I agree with all of your critiques but the more I play Lords of Hellas, the more I appreciate what it does. Sure it's bloated with all these mechanics and systems that don't quite add up but that bloat became part of the game's charm. Lords of Hellas is a 4/5 for me and I'll usually play it once or twice a year because of its theme, miniature quality, and unique blend of RPG elements and area control. It would get more plays if not for the better area control games on my shelf (Kemet, Forbidden Stars, and Eclipse).
You hit it right on the money about bloated content, or rather too many mechanics that just ends up being convoluted and pointless. They have another game that is guilty of this too.
i think it's good there's more than 1 way to win and to have 4 ways to win helps a player whose getting very unlucky with killing monsters or taking terrority for example. At least building the monument gives that player another option to win. Otherwise if building the monument was easy or benefited the builder, everyone would be doing for that victory instead of trying for one of the other conditions. It's good to see there's risk involved in any of these conditions and keeping an eye on other players movements to see what they maybe up to and what condition they're thinking about going for. Not to mention this sounds like great replay value, but you can make it a house rule at the start and just declare 1 or 2 victory conditions
@@TimChuon we can start with your Yu-Gi-Oh then. 😁 Did you keep them? The CCGs I still play are Magic and Vampire: the Eternal Struggle. I also played (Android) Netrunner, but haven't caught up on the post-FFG sets nor do I have a playgroup for that anymore. These games are keeping me from starting another one, which would have been Arkham Horror card game.
House rule win condition, build the most monuments. 😆 The game looks great, but if there is too much going on you can only give your attention to part of it.
@@TimChuon no need for apology! Just a shout to say it will help your channel. Its becoming a defacto standard, so when a channel doesn't have them I notice.
I would be curious to know what you would recommend for a better comparable game. It sounds to me that this kind of game might not be for you. You seem to be looking for like a war simulation game, which it is not. And i truly understand that the mechanics of this game is not for everyone. It's an hybrid of many things, there are some theme disconnect at times, and yes i would also love to have the monument built longer on the board lol. Great review, you covered many things properly, Personnally the game is better for 2 or 4, and when i say 2, we houseruled that we play with the unit of 2 races and with the rules of the 4 players... so cheated ;-) We play with the big map, so just 2 is annoying to remove some of it.
These critiques are pretty in line with most big KS productions. These campaigns live or die based on how much hype they can generate and an easy way to do that is to keep adding content leading to bloat. It’s why I avoid KS games now unless they’re already successful or clearly on the streamlined/minimalist end like Parks.
$800 for 8 plays.. not worth it. The problem with Kickstarter is buying all in with tons of expansions on a game you don’t know is good and buying expansions that will normally not get played much because the core was enough and adding more content makes it harder to teach and harder to get to the table.
Can You please point me towards a boardgame that does the same but better? I'm all into mechanics and balance and i dont care about plastic. I love "heroes of land air and sea" and i think this is the best area control game ever made (btw. i hate the artstyle of this game).
This is the game that made me stop backing games on KS. I went all in, got all the expansions, sundrop, really considered getting it painted. Then it was just kind of a meh game, not to mention the huge amount of delays all through out production.
Has anyone tried the house rule - changing the 3 monster victory condition to: three/ four glory tokens instead? I feel this makes quests more relevant, and stops people running away with inevitable victory that others can't prevent (esp. at lower player counts). What do you think?
A house rule we use in my group is: if you end building 1 God Statue, and end the next round controlling that region you win, is imposible and it takes a very long time defending it for 3 turns, it's not worth the effort and is the less using winning condition.
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![Shareปลาวาฬ ส่งท้าย SS1 พาเปียโน ขึ้น Ferrari ก่อนไปขาย แลก Nissan l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KAknGkTNIvg/mqdefault.jpg)
It may not be satisfying for some, but we got 10 plays in (3 players) last year and had a blast! The game has its issues, but is still a good time, and led to very tense games where we were all trying to work out how to pull off a winning turn while trying to prevent anyone else from doing it first. The Hades and Hephaestus expansions were fun as well.
I was going to ask Tim about 3p games. Glad to hear it works well with three because that's how I mainly play and occasionally four.
This was such an amazing review from the production to the very detailed and nuanced review. Really enjoyed this. I am hopeful Lords of Ragnarok is better. Debating if I’ll get the boats expansion or just the base.
The storytelling 🥲 brother.
Thanks man 🙌🏽 that was a journey!!
Every game should be well thought out, test played and polished at the time it´s released.
When hearing you talking about the 4 victory conditions, I´m thinking ok just modify the game; 1 random quest per player, or 4 different settings...
The problem is that you as player shouldn't experience the flaws of game rules, to fix them for yourself in order to make a game playable or entertaining.
I had this experience with GWS Cursed City which has, out of the box, a terrible written rulebook and flawed game mechanics. For 160,-$ thats not enough.
Yeah a lot of big Kickstarter games justify their stretch-goals with tons of miniatures, but the miniatures often barely matter to the game. I played a few that my friend's picked up and they just feel kind of clunky, like they were designed to satisfying backer rewards and not designed to be a fun satisfying game.
this is one of the sadder aspects to kickstarter! I get it that they're trying to appeal to more gamers, but I feel like it's an initial impression vs delayed disappointment in the game, which isn't worth it! Totally wish the gameplay delivered on such a stunning game like this one
You nailed this. I wanted to love this game, and instead it feels like they tossed in everything and the kitchen sink. Cool ideas that just needed to be refined and tied together better. (Oh, and gut that questing system, because its sucks.)
YES that analogy is on point! idk why losing your champion for 3 turns made it to the final part, but we really weren't a fan of questing and practically no one played into quests!
Rules on my table
1 - The Hero who lost a Fight by a Monster = We put Tolkien of FEAR on him = 5 Turns without Attack same Monster
2 - Blessing Draft = ONLY who build can CHOSE the blassing, the rest pick up a random Blessing from hand.
An interesting comparison would be with its Ragnarok counterpart once it's completed 😊
I just picked this game up at about half retail so was pretty excited to give it a try. I now feel like half retail sounds about right, even not having played it yet.
I guess somebody really needs to sit down and re-design some of the gameplay to make it feel more gratifying.
In my dozen or so plays, we never once had a fully built monument. Players won mostly from controlling 2 lands. I agree with all of your critiques but the more I play Lords of Hellas, the more I appreciate what it does. Sure it's bloated with all these mechanics and systems that don't quite add up but that bloat became part of the game's charm. Lords of Hellas is a 4/5 for me and I'll usually play it once or twice a year because of its theme, miniature quality, and unique blend of RPG elements and area control. It would get more plays if not for the better area control games on my shelf (Kemet, Forbidden Stars, and Eclipse).
You hit it right on the money about bloated content, or rather too many mechanics that just ends up being convoluted and pointless. They have another game that is guilty of this too.
Lovely review! Never played. It sounds like one I would enjoy playing but would never want to own.
i think it's good there's more than 1 way to win and to have 4 ways to win helps a player whose getting very unlucky with killing monsters or taking terrority for example. At least building the monument gives that player another option to win. Otherwise if building the monument was easy or benefited the builder, everyone would be doing for that victory instead of trying for one of the other conditions. It's good to see there's risk involved in any of these conditions and keeping an eye on other players movements to see what they maybe up to and what condition they're thinking about going for. Not to mention this sounds like great replay value, but you can make it a house rule at the start and just declare 1 or 2 victory conditions
$800??? Absurd! 😁
Then I realized I play 2 CCGs, so this is not even close.
hahahha! omg don't even get me started on those! i'm scared to count up how much I spent on marvel champions! which rae the two you play?
@@TimChuon we can start with your Yu-Gi-Oh then. 😁 Did you keep them?
The CCGs I still play are Magic and Vampire: the Eternal Struggle. I also played (Android) Netrunner, but haven't caught up on the post-FFG sets nor do I have a playgroup for that anymore. These games are keeping me from starting another one, which would have been Arkham Horror card game.
House rule win condition, build the most monuments. 😆
The game looks great, but if there is too much going on you can only give your attention to part of it.
Wait I'm confused... You asked was it worth it worth a $800 price tag. The answer is obviously no, it wasn't worth it.
Great video, I really miss time stamps, I feel they add something to understanding each part of the vid.
sorry about that Karl! I need to stop forgetting these-just added them in and thanks for the tip!
@@TimChuon no need for apology! Just a shout to say it will help your channel. Its becoming a defacto standard, so when a channel doesn't have them I notice.
Really think you summed up the game well. Lords of Hellas never delievers on a satisying experience.
I just wished it did! glad we're on the same page, but ahhh I wish the game delivered for such an exceptional production
I would be curious to know what you would recommend for a better comparable game. It sounds to me that this kind of game might not be for you. You seem to be looking for like a war simulation game, which it is not. And i truly understand that the mechanics of this game is not for everyone. It's an hybrid of many things, there are some theme disconnect at times, and yes i would also love to have the monument built longer on the board lol. Great review, you covered many things properly, Personnally the game is better for 2 or 4, and when i say 2, we houseruled that we play with the unit of 2 races and with the rules of the 4 players... so cheated ;-) We play with the big map, so just 2 is annoying to remove some of it.
These critiques are pretty in line with most big KS productions. These campaigns live or die based on how much hype they can generate and an easy way to do that is to keep adding content leading to bloat. It’s why I avoid KS games now unless they’re already successful or clearly on the streamlined/minimalist end like Parks.
Lord of Hellas is great for 2 players
You get to build monuments.
$800 for 8 plays.. not worth it. The problem with Kickstarter is buying all in with tons of expansions on a game you don’t know is good and buying expansions that will normally not get played much because the core was enough and adding more content makes it harder to teach and harder to get to the table.
what are your favorite area control games??
ROOT 🔥
Still like Cry Havoc for it's simplicity and speed. And it's theme.
Scythe
Blood rage, Tsukuyumi, Cthulhu Wars
@@edmundcheow760 how did you like tsukuyumi?! I didn’t like it the first time around and thought it was really slow/underwhelming at first
Can You please point me towards a boardgame that does the same but better? I'm all into mechanics and balance and i dont care about plastic. I love "heroes of land air and sea" and i think this is the best area control game ever made (btw. i hate the artstyle of this game).
Spheres of influence is the game your are looking for.
Queen if the bill? Lol don’t be scared. King of the Hill OK to say.
This is the game that made me stop backing games on KS. I went all in, got all the expansions, sundrop, really considered getting it painted. Then it was just kind of a meh game, not to mention the huge amount of delays all through out production.
Has anyone tried the house rule - changing the 3 monster victory condition to: three/ four glory tokens instead?
I feel this makes quests more relevant, and stops people running away with inevitable victory that others can't prevent (esp. at lower player counts). What do you think?
A house rule we use in my group is: if you end building 1 God Statue, and end the next round controlling that region you win, is imposible and it takes a very long time defending it for 3 turns, it's not worth the effort and is the less using winning condition.