Orenda 14 fuel pumps - a look inside
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 พ.ย. 2011
- We disassemble a fuel pump from an Orenda type14 turbojet, which is the engine from a Canadair Sabre 6.
Also welcoming the students of SC TAC, section D51 as new recruits to the worldwide order of Jet People. - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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I am far from having any knowledge of your craft ( 68 yr. old truck driver, here) but I was amazed that in the disassembly of this fuel pump, you did not make note of what bore of the seven pistons came from . So as to insure the original fit. I also have to say , I find your videos amazing.
I noticed that too.
This engine was designed in the 1940s, and we used imperial measurements because you did at the time. Most of out other engines were designed in the US, a country which stubbornly refuses to adopt the metric system.
I didn't live in the 40s
theres some really beautiful machining work in there
Thanks for all your hard work... I am a teacher at an A&P training school in the US... I appreciate your video's and show them quite often in the classroom. They are so much better then the stale old VHS video's the industry supplies... The young students relate to new technology... Thanks again.. keep the video's coming!
I'm pleased to hear that a school actually uses my vids. All I ask is that you direct your people to my channel instead of making copies to show in class. That way the views count towards the total for each video.
Cheers !
Way to go Jay. I was most impressed and suprised to see a pump get that sophisticated. But this is aero stuff so nothing should suprise me. Those designers and engineers can be so smart. Keep them great vids coming. Take it easy and cheers.
Great Video! Aninteresting technique to pump fuel, i always wondered how such large amounts of fuel with the necessary pressure get through the fuel nozzles.
Very interesting parts inside there, and as a CNC programmer i have massive respect how this parts were manufactured. Today, there would be no problem for a 5-axis CNC-mill to produce this parts, but for being made in the 40's and 50's, this is a masterpiece of engineering and manufacturing!
Thanks for another great detail in jet tech!
Cool. It's neat to see one open. In my mind I see it like 7 syringes that are being pulled and filled on the input side and then pushed and emptied on the output side. The swash plate is angled to make them move up and down.
I am a hydraulic tech. Two things that I have never seen in industrial hydraulic pumps: Return springs, and the non parallel pistons. The only function I can see for the non parallel pistons, is to use centrifugal force to also help the pistons return to the swash plate. That's a lot of insurance to keep the pistons in place. Other then that, it is just another standard industrial hydraulic pump. Normally only that ring with the holes is used to keep the pistons against the swash plate. Thanks!
Really good stuf JayZ!!
Love watching your vids and its great to see various parts taken apart. In the field I dont get the chance to see this stuff due to the fact that our 2 Speys are so reliable we rarely touch them except at midlife or overhaul and they always go to the pros (like you guys).
Keep up the great work!!!
P.S. You are correct, in the States we are reffered to as Aircraft Maintenance Techs, which is a change from the older A&P (Airframe and Powerplant certifications).
The amount of knowledge, engineering, manufacturing , quality controll that goes in such a device is just amazing, yes and I tought that much , but after watching a video of a MIG-29 Pilot incrementing its speed by just 10kph every other 3 seconds, with some osd'ed telemetry …. my jaw kind of was muscleless thus dropping . Thanks very much for the effort of sharing experience times time times knowledge .
You know what I really appreciate?
You've got hundreds of videos, with probably millions of collective views.
You could make alot of money by cashing in on "non-skipable" advertising,
But you don't.
Good Guy AgentJayZ
wow, finally a live example of displacement pump. Thanks!
Don't know how I just found your channel! Subbed. Amazing! :)
A M P+ Air frame and Power plant Mechanic. Love your work! and I'm about to finish this College term! I haven't have forgotten you! I have been looking for T's and Caps to send ! Thanks for all your videos!
Marco
I love the videos Jay. I almost had a job like yours in the Air Force, but they chose me to do other things, like go to Germany and work in a airport terminal.
Thanks for the videos, I appreciate it
"Beauty. " Great stuff
Such a beautiful precision machine even that fuel pump is. Fantastic.
Beautiful!
That is
a beautiful machine.
Hey, thanks for the name check - twice! Made my day.
@JetMech72 We do some non-destructive testing, but in this case I just pulled an extra drive case from our "long term storage" to get a gear out of it to turn the fuel pump by hand during reassembly.
Thanks Jay!
@tranceaddict704 Exactly... requires a very long answer, and maybe a video in front of a whiteboard.
But basically it is a way of making an engine with two turbines turning at their own optimum rotational speeds able to use three compressors ( Fan, LP and HP) all turning at their own best speeds.
Its a two-spool turbojet with the LP turbine also driving a planetary reduction drive in front of the lp compressor, which then drives a bypass fan.
@NoWattz without counting gear teeth, it appears to rotate at main rotor rpm, so 7800 or so at full power setting.
Great video as always. Did a bit of reading to figure out how an axial piston pump works. It boggles my mind how many types and variations of pumps there are.
They are tested to 2000 psi. and run at between 50 and 1000 psi. Unlike a hydraulic pump, they do not work against much resistance. What they are expected to do is have very precisely controlled output flow, and working against CDP, which will vary between 5 and 100 psi.
@AgentJayZ I'm working on editing the video of the testing right now.
@tranceaddict704 The PW1000 is a new engine, but not a new design. The Garrett ( Allied Signal -> now Honeywell aerospace) TFE731 was a geared turbofan introduced in 1972. It's still flying today in thousands of aircraft.
Very similar to the hydrostatic transmissions seen in our bigger riding lawn mowers of today
Nice, thx! :)
variable displacement axial piston pump. cool.
Many car A/C compressors use this type of pump, not all have a tilting swash plate though, most have a fixed displacement, but some newer ones are variable, to help compensate for changes in engine RPM without effecting A/C performance.
I had the same thought! This design has been adopted for variable displacement AC compressors like the Zexel type. The swash plate is magnetically controlled.
@117nathanmyers you're ready to watch the next video now... it's the one I uploaded Nov 28
Nice vedio
amazing btw how is the life span of the gerar pump and the regulator type. İS it the same.
All the piston rotate, as they do the feet slide across the swash plate. The swash plate changes angle, as you said, depending on the rpms of the engine. The greater the angle, the greater the feet are depressed, and the pistons are depressed more into there respective cylinders, the more fuel is compressed and forced out of the output side. When the feet slide past the harshest point of the swash plates angle, they begin to push back up using the spring in the center, and at the same time, drawing fuel into there respective cylinders. When the swash plate is flat(no angle what so ever), the feet don't have anything to slide against, the spring keep all the pistons out of the cylinders and no fuel is drawn in. For safety precautions, if the swash plate's control cylinder on the side of the pump breaks, there's a preloaded spring right above it to keep the swash plate at its harshest angle so it has full output. Did I get that right?
matt trembly sounds right to me.
Yes, correct, but the control piston is more likely to seize than break. I've never heard of one breaking, but if it gets stuck, the other pump in the pair can handle all fuel the engine will ever need.
Actually you sound more normal than a lot of folks in the states. Lol. I don’t live far from Greenville, in North Carolina.
Thanks for sharing ! what a mind boggling job u got there...how many years does it takes you to learn all that ?
@AgentJayZ. Hey Jay, I was reading about the PW1000G and I was wondering if you could explain how it's supposed to be so much more fuel efficient
@cganz1234 When your Speys need work, or if you need parts, call us.
There's a Spey in our test cell right now.
The workings of this type of fuel pump comes described in detail in the book "Rolls-Royce - The jet engine", fourth edition. :) It starts at the end of page 99. Old book, but explains well. :)
you sound alright jay
Careful, there. Many have disagreed...
I've worked on many diesel injector pumps and was wondering on this pump are the pistons matched to their respective bores or does it not matter? What pressure do this pumps run at?
@tranceaddict704 When the opportunity arises, I'll get on it.
It's confusing to have so many different names for aircraft mechanics around the world.
Down here in Australia the names are similar to Canada.
I'm a Aircraft maintenance engineer with a large Aussie airline and only work on engines on the wing and airframes (B737, 747, 767, 777, A330, 340..& a Concorde once!). After first year training we split and some go off to the work shops and the rest to the hangers.
How would the pump or system react if there was a single spring failure? Is there a feedback path to compensate? Also, I only hear a mild Canadian accent. :-) Greetings from Apache Junction, Arizona.
Any chance of doing a video in front of the whiteboard?
On reassembly, would each piston have to be replaced in its original bore, or wouldn't it matter? Great videos!
They are put back where they came from on reassembly. On first assembly out of all new parts, they are "selectively fit", or matched for as tight a fit as will still allow smooth motion.
JayZ...your accent....its quite normal...to my ears...you could pass easily for someone halfway around the world..here in New Zealand !...that is untill you the about...but I guess you have heard that plenty of times right?
'That is until you the about....' what does that mean?
2006mct42 it probably means "until you *say* about…". Now, was that such a difficult leap of imagination?
How does the fuel gets pressuring is achievable
@oisiaa It has no value unless you need one for your Orenda turbojet in your Sabre 6, and then it becomes one of those parts you can't fly without. Almost irreplaceable.
Similar operating theory to a variable-displacement, load sense, hydraulic pump found in industrial truck and heavy equipment applications. They are notoriously sensitive to contamination, but are also used in a closed system. I wonder how the fuel filtering is on the engine that uses this pump.
Fuel is filtered at every possible step in the process from production to use by the engine, and the pumps have a 400 hour interval between overhauls.
5:15 nah. I'm from upstate NY. you sound pretty normal to me.
OMFG how do you set the correct bearing slop whaddayacallit wit that 3 bearing monstrosity!?
Hi,when you put thise pump together again,can you put the fuel piston into anny sylinder you want? or have you mark them so piston 1 goes into syl 1
tom bentsen The pistons are matched to the bores, so you can either mark them and put them back together the same way they came apart, or use a micrometer to measure new ones for the best fit.
Why is this type of pump an expensive way to pump fuel? Is it the machined parts or something like that? Thank you for taking time to read this and answer my question. I wish I could be the person cleaning your floor and taking out the trash. Would love to learn from the blaster master.
A variable displacement axial piston pump is a complex device with close tolerances, so it is expensive to make, and wears out fairly quickly, compared to something like a gear pump. It's an amazing thing, and does the job very well, but gear pumps with regulators have demonstrated great reliability at lower cost.
So how much would you say this pump is worth?
Are any of the other parts of the engine made from magnesium alloy?
Your accent sounds quite OK to me but then again I´m Swedish so I don´t have a dog in the fight over whose English accent sounds funnier :-)
When they say it's a " geared " turbofan, what exactly does that mean? Forgive my ignorance
I hope you marked each piston with each bore, because the clearances are matched to 0,000 1 mm, or 0.000,01".
You will also notice that the lands in the bores are individually fine honed to these tolerances and individually measured. To change pistons around would be disastrous.
I lied, it is a hundredth of a micrometer or a thousandth of a "thou". Apologies
Hi Jay, it's Ben here from London, Ontario again. What type of fuel is used for liquid fuel gas turbine jet engines? I have heard the term "AP Jet Fuel"... can you tell me what that is?
Jet fuel has a variety of slightly different recipes. It can be pure kerosene, a blend of kerosene and other petroleum products, and an often used substitute is diesel fuel.
The basic idea is high energy content with low volatility.
Gasoline is often listed as an emergency substitute, but because of its high volatility, it is much more dangerous.
You sound normal to me. I live about 400 miles away.
How the flame stays on when jet or wind travel at 4-500miles per hour?
The air is moving much more slowly inside the combustor liners, where the fuel is being burned.
Thats John and Thomas right after each other...intentional? ;)
+dan smith Uh, remind me... and maybe a hint or two...
phew. just watching you work on that super expensive equip makes me nervous. question: have you ever accidentally broken something really valuable when working on it?
I once wrecked a 20K bearing by trying to improve on the instructions on how to install it. Wasn't a good day.
Is there an address we could send cards to you? I have a few buddies (and teachers) who would like to send a card from Spartan out in Los Angeles. For me personally, as a thank you for the great demonstrations.
+Matthew samson Check out the S&S turbines website. I sure hope the students are directed to my channel, and not shown pirated copies...
Oh yea don't worry. More often than not, we watch them for trivial knowledge because the FAA loves recips more than anything, but these videos helped a ton during my turbine engine class.
I'll ask a couple of my buddies and a teacher or two down at Spartan if they wanna write. Thanks for the quick response.
this is the video I wanted to see. and I guess I never watched this ine before. as I suspected. absolute VOODOO inside that metal case hahaha the confusing diagrams do the gadget its due
how much is a jet engine and where i find.
+Giorgi Lucas How much is a car, and where can I find one...
I'm from Brazil and I have a boat in my lake house, but I want to put a motor on my boat, as a GE t58. So I just wonder how much is an engine as the T-58 GE. if no more than $ 1 million, I can buy. (Sorry for my english).
There is a market for used, surplus military engines, but they are hard to find. Expect to pay 10% of your budget for a nice one.
I can't tell you where you'll find yours. You need to search and search.
ok, I will continue to seek here in my country, a motor in civil aviation as a turboprop or helicopter thank you AgentjayZ I am your fan!
NOT something you will just "Grab" at Pep Boys Auto Parts eh ? Good Lord what does that beautiful pump cost ? LOL
Used, in good shape, 25K US. New? unobtainable.
AgentJayZ
That's about how much I was guessing... LOL
I tell my students to subscribe... I don't download and save... I use the net to show...
the video tittle is very misleading, i though you were talking about an engine with 14 fuel pumps...
+JohnJaggerJack They are the fuel pumps from an Orenda 14. What would you call it ?
A look inside an Orenda 14 fuel pump
You don’t sound at all !
Hello spanish
You don't sound funny at all. You could blend right in in the US (well, maybe not South Carolina, those guys do have pretty harsh accents).