Simple Shadow Navigation Part 1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
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The Pathfinder School,Bush Craft ,Survival skills, Historical Lore, Primitive Skills, Archery, Hunting, Trapping, Fishing, Navigation, Knives, Axes, Fire, Water, Shelter, Search and Rescue
Lovin that old school science, Dave!
Pretty impressive Dave! To add a little input, when adjusting your 15 degrees, just break up your 45 degrees into 3rds to get a more accurate reading instead of guessing say, 30 degrees. You would take your 45 divide it into 3rds and there are your 15, 30 and 45 degree marks for an even MORE accurate reading. Pretty smart Dave. I`m definitely keeping this in my memory bank. Thanks for the input. Keep vids like this coming! It`s taking the guess work out of guessing if you are ever in a survival situation and don`t have a compass....... you do now!
Very cool! Makes full sense to me. 360 degrees in 24hrs translates to 15 degrees/hour. Now I'll never be lost!!
There is much variation in this certain times of the year but like any primitive method it will never be as accurate as modern methods, if you look at my video tracking the arc of the Sun that is the most accurate way but takes a whole day to set up and is only good for about 3 weeks before re-tracking, this is just to help walk a straight line in a semi cardinal direction, for better accuracy you could add 30 degrees in the Winter, and Subtract 30 in the Summer, Spring and Fall, you should be close-
It is known that Vikings landed at and settled for awhile in SE Canada. That makes me wonder if they might have passed on some of their knowledge to indigenous Indian tribes that they traded with. The relationship was tenuous so I don't know if they would have been comfortable with doing anything that might have helped them.
I was just thinking that, but I think the 30 degrees would be a bit more variable depending upon your latitude; you'd need less of a correction in Florida, and more in Seattle on the solstices, and way more in Fairbanks, for example. Right now, however, it's still March, on or close to the Equinox. Only when you get up close to the Arctic Circle (or down to the Antarctic) would it not work very well. For the 48 contiguous States, this should work okay for rough bearings.
After that, I'd say, know your terrain, know your major terrain features, so you have points where you know, "If I head east from here, if I hit a road I've gone too far forward, and if I reach the river, I've drifted too much to the side," etc, like on your other wayfinding videos.
05generic Vikings landed in Newfoundland, that's NE Canada. The meetings they had with the Inuit/Beothuk Indians are said to be violent. I doubt they conversed. Yes Vikings did use shadow navigation as did Natives.
There are legends on both sides that when a particular group of Vikings (Scandinavian travelers/explorers/traders) met a particular group of Inuit, they couldn't communicate through anything but gestures (duh, neither spoke the other's language), but that they managed to convey peaceful intentions, and decided to have a little feast together to try to start learning how to speak. The Inuit shared seal and fish and the like, and the Vikings...had brought dairy animals and shared their milk and cheese. The Inuit thought the milk, etc, tasted good, but after they had gone back to their villages, their stomachs started cramping, because they were naturally lactose intolerant...and so they thought the Vikings had poisoned them.
So when they recovered, they went back to the Vikings and fought them, until the surviving Vikings retreated back to their ships and left. The Vikings had legends of unreasonable Inuit who attacked after seemingly wanting peace, and the Inuit had legends of horrible trickster Vikings who seemingly wanted peace but who poisoned potential allies...and all because of a simple cultural & dietary misunderstanding that not everyone is capable of digesting milk as an adult.
The two sides often met fairly peacefully under other circumstances...but if the Scandinavians kept offering milk and cheese to people who couldn't digest it, then the Inuit and Beothuk, etc, had reasonable cause to think they were being poisoned. (Mistaken, but quite reasonable under the circumstances.)
+ladyofthemasque While the lactose hypothesis is interesting, it is inconsistent with nordic cultural practices regarding travel by sea. If the ships did carry dairy product during long voyages, it was in the form of skyr and/or hard cheeses. These products are made by a process that removes the lactose to levels where lactose intolerant people can eat it in quantity. The Vikings would have consumed the majority of dairy during the voyage. If they did carry goats or sheep, they would drink any product directly with little or none left over. Hungry Viking crews after long sea voyages was probably one reason for their raiding reputation.
What the Vikings did preserve during their voyage was trade goods. One such product was alcoholic beverage. The most likely cause of grief between the Vikings and their Inuit/Native American dining guests would have been the after-effects of a night-long bout of feasting and drinking mead. Those who drink traditional mead find that they grow accustomed to its potent kick. Inuit and other Native Americans have a very low genetic tolerance of alcohol. They would probably get sick before the festivities ended. In the morning, they would wake up with the worst feeling of their lives ... and exact their fire and knapped-flint revenge on the demons from the sea. Native remedies for hangover are the same that they use for "poison."
Where the Vikings settled for a longer term stay, the first sign of trouble would have been a strange disease that caused severe symptoms and die-off in the native population. The most likely cause of the plague would have been nocturnally-active rats that arrived with the Vikings. The rats would have brought disease for which native populations had no immunity. This would have been cause for longer-term conflict between Vikings and the local population.
While teaching my 8 and 13 year olds simple sun navigation N. S. E. W., I realized that right or left arm pointing is very important. I took for granted that they had the same directional skill that I had learn from a kid. The first lesson they got it I thought. A week or so later I quizzed them again and both used the wrong pointing arm and North and South was backwards. Right hand morning to east. Left hand afternoon to west.
Well done Dave. VERY interesting and useful.
Most of all great primitive navigation has its root in being observant of the movement of the sun during the day and the stars at night. Its amazing how many people are not even aware of the celestial movement throughout the day and how it changes during the seasons. In Alaska these changes are quite drastic.
The cool thing about using the sun and your hand to tell time is that it pretty much works for people of all sizes. Generally, smaller people have shorter arms and smaller fingers, bigger people have longer arms and bigger fingers. This keeps the size relationship to the sun proportionally the same. I'm liking the "primitive" navigation videos.
Damn...of all the survival videos I've watched...including ones that has talked about direction- this is a first for me. Good stuff Dave...keep up the great work.
Nice photography Dave. Tried this at 12 noon and was only off a couple degrees. Good info
Thanks for sharing Mate.
You are very informative,
Keep them coming mate.
Regards from the land down under.
Cheers Tony.👍⛏🍺🇦🇺
always learning thanks dave
FUN FACT: the Vikings were one of the few who found out how to navigate during cloudy days/nights using the Icelandic spar. A crystal that allows you to see sun/moon light through clouds.
Hi Dave, thanks for this really useful video. It is pretty accurate as long as I stay as accurate as possible with my feet.
I learn more amazing survival techniques from you. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us.
Your method here will work better at some times of the year than at others. A built-in assumption is that the sun rises due east (and sets due west), which happens twice each year. As mid-summer approaches, the sun rises more and more to the north and sets more to the north. And that effect is magnified the farther from the equator you go. If you are in the far north the sun may dip below the northern horizon just briefly in the summer, if it does at all, and rise just briefly above the horizon if you are in the far south. This north-south seasonal migration of the sunrise/sunset directions is thus a complicating factor in finding directions.
refer to my comment at the top, you are correct
Very interesting system Mr. Dave. I have developed a similar system. I use the sun as the reference point as I am walking. I live in heavily forested area and often all I can see is trees. I have developed a system of an imaginary protractor on the top of my shoulder with a degree scale. I place the sun on the degree setting I am desiring to go the direction I am desiring. If the Sun is in rising in the east and I want to travel north I keep the sun on the imaginary 90 degree mark off my right shoulder. It changes as the day progresses. Thanks for sharing your system.
Hi Dave, Thanks for working on this. In addition to the variation in accuracy of the 1 hour-per-hand trick, that is accurate at USA latitudes. The further north you go, as an example, the more minutes per hand width. For example, I was bear hunting with a friend in Prince George, British Columbia, Canada in the mid spring. It was getting late (or so I thought), and holding my hand up, I measured hand widths and told my friend "we only have two hours left." "No," he said, "we have a lot more time than that." Well I don;t remember how much time passed before sunset, but it was a LOT more than 2 hours - maybe 3 or more. I'm sure that there is a calculation for this, but it's worth knowing that one hour per hand is only accurate at certain times of the year and at certain latitudes. So if someone only goes into the woods near their home at certain times of the year, this is useful. For a global traveler like myself, not as useful -- yet!
very intresting dave! thanks!
This is fascinating.I will definately be learning this. Thank You.
Thanks Dave this is a big help, i am in the philippines it is tough here because we are close to the equator but in the morning or afternoon it will work great, BlindOwl Outdoors
Wow! I learned a lot! Thank you Dave!
great lesson Dave..safe journeys
great vid Dave, I don,t trust gps you explain it better than the boy scout manual
another great video
Another great video Dave, this series was especially helpful! I drew out my shadow board last night after I watched this and I'll be transferring it to plywood also, way more durable that way. Thanks again sir!
The best shadow compass is at Coral Castle in Miami Dade. It is a sundial with marks for hours at winter, summer, and eguinox Sun tracks of this. Accurate as can be on sunny days
that is amazing dave thank you cant wait to see part 2
Great info Dave!
I read somewhere that shadow navigation works best on February 2nd of each year. 😁
Great video Dave, I taught a variation of this on one of my courses last year. love the stuff you do. keep it up mate. may try to catch up with you at the bushcraft show UK
great technique, just takes a little bit of time to get it right quickly when you need
Simply awesome.
Awsome vid dave. very interesting. never knew about all that but do now thanks again and keep up the good work man!!
This is awesome!
very useful thank you
Very interesting method! Thanks I will have to practice this.
Very good.Thank you very much
I can honestly say that I have never been lost in the woods.......confused a couple of times, but never lost !!!
cheers. will put this to the test and see how it works.
one time my compass actually was wrong... I went camping after work and had a magnetic name tag that I stuck in my bag in the same pocket as my compass. Unbeknownst to me that magnet flipped the polls on the needle so north was south and south was north. I was doing a hike off trail and had written down bearings to navigate through the thick forest. Luckily it only took my the first bearing to realize the sun's position wasn't lining up at all with the compass. I put two and two together and just started using the compass backwards (which was annoying because it lost some accuracy with the weight of the needle the opposite of how it was intended).
Dave, to be specific it's magnetic north for the compass.
very cool method dave. I don't think you could get lost if you tried. And if you did you would be found with a new homestead haha
Very useful I have been wanting to improve my navigation skills. Thanks. how is the canvas tarp coming alone that you said you guys would be coming out with.
good info to know helpful in a emergency no compass
great info as usual
In Kentucky the wind blows from the west most of the time. Is this true for most areas-i.e. the wind generally blows from a particular direction? If so then it might be helpful to know on windy days which often come with clouds. Not an exact science but might be helpful.
Thanks for this video
At 6:08 .. did you say "point-o-meter"? He He! Or did I mis-hear you. I have been fascinated with shadow and direction most of my life, as I walk the woods for a living every day. This is good stuff! It sorta takes the "watch" method, but translates it to your physical person. Keep up the great work! Also, I believe that "point-o-meter" is for determining the slope of your terrain... it is a clinometer needle.
The only question I would have is how do you or would you know which way was north. However you can varify this by looking at trees in the area to find the southern arc due to the trees need for the sun, they will grow my heavily on the southern side. At least here in the northern hemisphere.
great video tho definitely something to practice and see if I can adjust it to my region
very cool good too know I like to put a stick in the ground mark it with a rock then wait ten minutes then mark it agien and that gives you your line
10 min is now where near long enough to be accurate with that method
Thanks Dave,
Impressive end credit rollout at the end. Were you a rapper in a past life?
Amazing !!! Im going to outside to try this right now! What is the maximum angle you can get at noon btw? does it ever go over 90°? And how would you count hands from the horizon line up or down to it in a hilly environment? Its very hilly where I live. Thanks Dave!
Interesting but if above a tropic, you get a lot of variation as to where sun comes up or how far up in sky it rises at noon. I would guess the 30 degree is your correction, but I would think that must vary by latitude and season and time of day. I suspect both you and the Vikings figured that out.
That is extremely useful. I am definitely remembering this. One question. This is in the morning, so in the evening, would I need to have the sun on my LEFT side to find my north? Also I'd like to see how to find directions using the moon. Thanks for all the great videos, Canterbury!
So if you use this with the sun going up you would adjust your degree angle to the left. So do you adjust your degree angle with your feet to the right if your using this method with the sun going down? If you can make sense at what I said.
Steven Ferry I was thinking the same thing! Good question!
thirdeded!
you are correct. you also point your right hand towards the sun when it is rising, but use your left hand when the sun is setting. If you do not do this you will need to take the degrees away from 180 when the sun is setting for it to work out.
so you became the needle on the shadow board ?
Living in the center of USA, my Declination is never over 2*, and generally around 1.
I would like to add that the hole hands fingers toes things only works in certain areas. come summer time here in Alaska you can stand the all day with your fingers under the sun all day long it's not gonna do you any good
I have one of those mc2g compasses. I have had trouble with the bezel ring moving side to side without turning the ring. I actually went to REI store where I got it and tried 3 more still the same result. Just wandering is that normal for this compass
Jeff Ballew I've got an mc 2 , never had any trouble . the bezel shouldnt move on its own .
Hello David, have you used Calcite to find the sun on a misty cloudy day, when it is not visible? I have been watching a video on viking navigation method of using " sunstone which is calcite" calcite which has a property called birefringence. Which when the calcite is held up to the sky during overcast when the sun is not visible the sun can be found and then north can be found. I will search your channel. Think I will find a good size piece of calcite.
Seeing the weather in the video, I thought it would be about orienting yourself when you can't guess where the sun is and there are no shadows. How wrong I was...
Up here in the land of the midnight sun. This method has some drawbacks, as you might guess.
a Norse sun compass can be made with a stick and wooden disc fast enough and surely this would be far better
See Part 2 of this video
wildernessoutfitters will do, thanks
The Vikings used some form of mineral crystal the would let them know where the Sun was in an overcast... anyone have details?
Coming, still experimenting with the Icelandic Crystal
Pygar2 would be a very interesting to see and debate on such unfounded history would love to see the intake of that series and something I would love to practice I like this comment
For those interested the crystal is Optical Calcite also known as Iceland Spar. A clear, rhombic crystal of calcium carbonate.
Pygar2 It was quartz and it diffused the light. They would be able to tell where the sun was by lining it up with the brightest spot of light through the stone.
a while back i saw a amazing documentory of what youre talkin about ,i cant remember what it was titled but the crystal was dubbed "the viking sunstone "
Can you do more hunting videos
hey Dave, unrelated to this video i was wondering were you get your smooth bore muzzleloaders. I cannot find any online.
why 30degrees and not 90?
genius
How is this method affected by the latitude that you are at?
I'm confused Dave. Would not 45° be North? how is 30° North?
Very cool concept. Why is this the first time I have heard of this? haha.
2x15=30?
Because the Sun is no longer on a direct east line 2 hours into the day, there is much variation in this certain times of the year but like any primitive method it will never be as accurate as modern methods, if you look at my video tracking the arc of the Sun that is the most accurate way but takes a whole day to set up and is only good for about 3 weeks
The compass is correct 99.9% of the time. Learn three things. Firstly, other methods as you are teaching. Secondly, learn to trust the compass. Thirdly, do not trust your life on a piece of junk compass. If a person thinks they will someday need their compass for an emergency or proper navigation, and buys a piece of crap instrument, they need to stay in their parents basement. They are too stupid to go outside.