Air conditioner outdoor coil repair
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2024
- This covers an outdoor coil with a large leak. I isolate, repair and pressure check the coil.
This video is part of the heating and cooling series of training videos made to accompany my websites: www.graycoolingman.com and www.grayfurnaceman.com to pass on what I have learned in many years of service and repair. If you have suggestions or comments they are welcome.
If you are a homeowner looking to repair your own appliance, understand that the voltages can be lethal, the fuels are highly flammable and high pressures are used. Know your limits.
*Great and Easy to instal **Fastly.Cool** Low noisy*
Nice taste in music - diggin’ the Bryan Adams while you brazed it! 👍👍
nice video here , reminds me in MIAMI fl when i was working people so desperate to find leaks where dipping the whole cond unit in their pools to find the leak , it found them ok . thanks for sharing this .
Customers are funny people, as you know. I had to make a repair like this on an R22 unit or replace the system or the coil. Told the customer the unit was old and didn't make sense to buy a coil for a 20 year old unit when she was probably going to have to replace the system in a year or two. I made her aware that I'd have to remove the fins around the repair, ok no problem. This was a condenser that you can see coil really well. When it was done and running well she complained that it looked like something from "Sanford & Son". She considered replacing the coil but I talked her into changing out the system and knocked the cost of the repair off, minus the cost of the R22. Like I said, customers are funny people.
They are. I have had them be angry that I replaced the electronics in an electronic air cleaner without changing the box. They wanted a shiny new box.
GFM
they dont know a/c and how it works ,,,, i been retired ac tech for a long time , i remember working on a/c systems as old as 35 years and still going ,,today we have salesmen not repair techs , they want to replace and run , have fun . peace; just saying .
It was certainly unusual. I was wondering if it would fail under pressure, but it was ok. Thanks for the comment.
GFM
Very nice. Lots cheaper and easier to repair the coil rather than replace it.
Cool video GFM, I was wondering if u can do a step by step video on how to properly put pressure in the system when checking for leaks Thanx
amazing, nice work here, completed just the right way
Thanks for the support.
GFM
I like it! I was thinking to repair the coil one day...This is it.
Thank you!
Quite welcome.
GFM
Never let me down, been appreciative for some time
Thanks for the support.
GFM
Nobody attempts to fix coil leaks anymore since the Refrigerant has gotten so expensive. We just replace the whole coil. The customer wouldn’t believe you ever fixed it anyway when a new leak springs up elsewhere in the already weak coil.
Thanks for the video. Very informative.
It is a short term expensive fix. If it leaks replace. You are doing your customer a dis service if its out of warranty because its going to leak somewhere else.
Said by a true parts changer.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman said by a licensed MASTER in multiple states with 30 years experience in residential and commercial silly. TACLBOOO71265E and a BSBA. Good Luck.
@@drewbello8721 Also licensed and can come up with a number of letters after my name. I also taught this for 9 years.
The coil seen in the video was from a 5 yr old unit that was originally diagnosed by a parts changer and has been in use for over 5 yrs since. I have done this repair many times.
The decision to repair or replace is one that should be done on the specific job.
Blanket diagnoses, as you appear to have done, get you out of a tough job, but do a disservice to your customer.
GFM
Just what I needed man!!! I like your expertise in this and the video helped me out on a job saved thousands. Thanks again!!!
great work.i use nitrogen to find leak in a condeser .i use 450 psi and i found the leak.i use 200 psi and no leaks!!!!
George Siatos hello
Pretty common, need to use those high pressures.
GFM
The unit was one I had in my scrap yard. The cost would be $600 to 800. Whether it should be done to such an old unit depends on the situation.
GFM
A week vhn
Hey thanks a bunch for the video! Understood a lot of what to do..and what not to do ;] cheers!
Welcome
GFM
stay brite 8 works better for this application in my opinion. Heating that extremely thin copper weakens it too much. Braze connections are much cleaner, without the worry of getting flux into the system, but stay brite 8 is way easier to fix leaks. Not opening the battle of braze vs stay brite here, but in fixing leaks there is no question what's used the most often and best, stay brite, IMO.
To each his own.
GFM
Uncommon place for a leak. Maybe it had an over pressure situation, if it was a condenser. They usually leak at the steel partitions or headers.
Good job
It looks worse than it is. I will be firing this unit off and I think the head will be ok. Thanks for the comment.
GFM
I understand there is a class action suit against Goodman for defective coils on indoor air handler units. They won't admit blame and many of the HVAC contractors who installed the air handler units are refusing to replace defective units I guess because Goodman won't cover the costs for some of them and they don't want to lose money. I have been paying for labor associated with this while my unit is under warranty. Now I will have to have entire unit replaced, or coils replaced because my unit keeps breaking down due to the bad coils leaking refrigerant. I am so over it!
+Rosemary Thomas The class action is true. Whether the coil could be repaired or must be replaced, I don't know. Goodman has had the parts only warranty for many years. Not one I agree with. Thanks for the thoughts.
GFM
This is old news but the Class Action Lawsuit against GOODMAN MFG has been dismissed and thrown out of court.www.classaction.org/goodman-amana-lawsuit
www.classaction.org/blog/goodman-amana-hvac-cases-dismissed-what-happened
I really hate having to cut the fins out, because it alters the coil in a way that takes away the coil's ability to transfer heat, and god help you if you have a fixed orifice, because the altered condenser will naturally raise the head pressure slightly, causing you to have to undercharge to get the right superheat. I know that replacing the coil is not always an option, and I myself like to keep old and classic AC units fixed up and running right since they're so reliable, but I hate having to remove sections of fins to fix coils, unless it's a small section on a very large coil. I think you did one of the best coil fixes i've seen in a while, but having to fix a coil, rather than replacing it with one that would work just goes against my grain.
I sort of look at it the opposite way. The reduction in heat transfer is so low as to be negligible. Somewhat like a very slight amount of dirt in the coil. In the unit this was done on the entire unit was replaced and was only 5 years old. In any case, coil replacement is a very expensive job. I hear you on doing clean work. It is just a different way of looking at it. Thanks for the thoughts.
GFM
What kind of unit was that coil from?
John Smith Its from a 2 ton Carrier split.
GFM
I believe it’s actually illegal to cut into a condenser coil fin area. You cannot legally modify or alter equipment certified by ASHRAE. Also if you are a dealer/ vendor it’s a violation of your agreement with the provider. You should also read up on the non disclosure agreement you have with the vendor and manufacture. Unless you’re a Goodman dealer then You can do whatever you want.
@@GrumblesM4 I didn't know that modifying a system would be illegal, but that's interesting if it's true. Could you possibly provide a link to where you found that information? Thanks
sad to say i have a leak on the side of the evaporator, might be the fitting but the metal frame seems to be right over the leak, i put some soap and water on my finger and butt it up against the frame and the tubing, and the bubbles are coming out of the hole in the metal frame, any tips or tricks to dealing with this, its a evaporator coil on a 7 yr. old package unit. ive tried to take coils apart and know the frame doesnt move, so if the frame is straddling the leak what would you do. i do have expertise in hvac soldering, but im out of the business and have never run across this before. i did start ups, compressor changes, leak repair, remove and replace every part, but never actually attempted this particular job. new coil is not a option
Great video, Thanks.
+hondagoal Merry Christmas.
GFM
Thanks
Very nice and helpfull..May i ask you something..??With what are you presure it??thank you..
The best gas to use is nitrogen. It is inert and can pressure up to whatever pressure is needed.
GFM
Thanks a lot,I understand what you mean!!!
sem like this I repair before good
I like your video
Thanks for the support
GFM
wow...nice video tutorial
did you flow nitrogen while braising ?
COOL BEANS, THANX GFM, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK
hey nice vid , what do you recommend i use to fix a small hole in a window unit small coil. can i use the yellow propane tank and silver solder for copper plumbing? , i wrapped some soft copper wire over small hoile and heated some pipe solder over it and it covered the hole , or should i use a 5 to 15% silver rod in the future instead? , and also it leaked all the gas after hole was accidentally made it was r410 a , i just didnt really want to spend the same or more than ac cost , thought i could put a piercing valve and fill with some 134a i have , ive seen other people do it , not sure how good it cools , but i guess i can get a cheap ac refill set of guages with hose and compressor for r134 , r410 , r22 for about $82 and 22oz can of r410 for $76 and use kit for any future refills and repairs. let me know thx
I always use 15% Sil Phos. I do not recommend the use of 134A in a 410A system.
GFM
Why braze it and risk softening the tube and surrounding tubes ? Why not use low temp Solder like StayBrite so you can get the heat on and off of it much quicker and still leave a good solder seal ?
Arnie Schwartzenegger I will not use any low temp solder on refrigeration, especially when closing a hole in the pipe. The product is just not effective for this type of repair. Products like staybrite 8 are good solders for tight fitting joints and would probably seal. But when I leave the joint, I don't ever want to come back, so sil phos 15% is what I use. The sil phos product has has been the standard for many years because it is so good at what it does. Just my opinion but backed by 35 years of use in the field.
GFM
Your application for plumbing trade using low temperature flame the solder .
His application for HVAC-R trade using brazing 15% silver that is correct .
Cool video, Thanks !
+M. B. Kiser Heating & Air Conditioning Co. Inc. Welcome
GFM
I wonder what caused it to swell out like that. Do you think it was just weak in that area or what? I have found a lot of leaks where the weak spots like 90 degree bends and in the creases where the line has been put together and also the copper run through the coils are a lot thinner than regular line. I have solder pipe that was so thin it would almost burn a bigger hole before getting hot enough for the solder to melt! Great repair! Take care
Thanks for the video I'm thinking of studying HVAC. I just don't if its hard or not
It is a technical profession that requires understanding of physical laws. It is also not as clean as an office job. You will also need a mechanical mind. According to all the sources I have found, there will be a chronic shortage of HVAC techs for the foreseeable future. The business I am associated with will hire any experienced tech if we can find one. Hope this helps.
GFM
That thing is going to split again eventually, just replace the dang thing and save yourself from having to go back and try to save face with the customer. Nice brace though
good video, thank you...
Hi GFM, what size torch tip did you use for this?
Very interesting
Thanks sir
Welcome
GFM
How did you get your torch to not make any noise? Radio in background could be heard but no torch noises. Amazing!!
I have a torch silencer lol
GFM
I poked a hole in one of my tubes! Crap. It looks like it is easy to access and I think the hole is small. Your vid's have inspired me...I'm going for a solder kit with sil phos 15%. Thanks for the video. If I chicken out...do you live in the Seattle area?!
Tyler Gillispie I can't say I do.
GFM
I should be OK. Watching more of your vids...nice work.
Would you be able to recommend a good small torch? I plan on getting a small kit together and some practice copper lines at my local hardware store.
Tyler Gillispie Sometimes you can use a MAPP gas torch and get high enough temp. I use oxy-acetylene, but it will cost you.
GFM
Probably a stupid question, but can punctures be repaired with this method?
A rusted ¼ hex screw in the exterior frame that didn't really need replaced, was replaced anyway with a new, slightly longer screw by a by a kid with an upgraded 18v drill that "just got away from me", piercing the coil.
He kills me... But he's good kid, and is really upset with himself because he doesn't want me to have to replace the unit. Any advice would be appreciated. Have a great one.
The repair is not hard if it is a copper coil. The video I did covers it. The problem is the unit must be evacuated and then recharged. That requires HVAC tools and experience.
GFM
Hello my window AC unit indoor coil is damaged because I somehow lifted this little black thing attached to a wire when removing my filter to clean it how can I fix it or should get rid of my AC
If it has only damaged the fins and there was no release of gas, you can just continue to use it.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman thank you ☺️
@@destinybrown3066 Welcome
GFM
For low pressure condencer. U show one time i think .
Good video!!! Is there any problem with loosing all of those cooling fins?
Nice work! What size tip did you use for your torch? At what pressure did you regulate the oxyacetylene tanks? If you did have a hole in the coil that was too large to patch up like this, could you cut out that section and braze in another section of tubing? I would appreciate any comments. Thanks!
CheckersBria Probably the best way is for you to look at this playlist. In it I go over the settings and torch . Mostly, if the hole it too large you should consider replacing the coil. th-cam.com/play/PLItXrh64d2JOis_7dD0KVPcW7ivEw_gKn.html Hope this helps.
GFM
Thank you. I'll check it out.
Its coming.
GFM
Yes , I have stranger leak I when I fill my Ac split unit the return pipe gets cold and and intake also gets cold and the freyon runs if can help me what could be the problem
Are completely
How do you fix the fins afterwards?
Something else,what is the appropriate pressure check to use for ??How many psi??
If the coil has been isolated from the rest of the unit, you can do upwards of #400. If the coil is still connected to the rest of the unit, no higher than the test pressure listed on the model plate. Hope this helps.
GFM
grayfurnaceman Yes it does..,thank you again!
what type of rod do you use for this soldering, alumnium or copper rod?
I only braze copper. 15% oil-phos.
GFM
Faster too.
GFM
Hey bro, great job. I turn to you from Europe, my external unit came with fins bent, the packaging was clearly pierced and my fins squashed! Just like your bends at 1:21 to the far right of the screen. Do those fins really only protect? Can i use the unit as is? It hasn't been installed yet.
اللهم صلي وسلم على الحبيب المصطفى
Do the fins matter if they are missing in areas?
The choice to remove fins is based solely on financials and part availability.
The loss of heat transfer is in the single digit percentage.
GFM
I have a slab coil that part of a 2.5 ton York R-22 system ....just to see if I could - I tracked down (2) leaks by removing fins - silver soldered and pressured to 200# - held for 2 days......obviously I fixed the leaks which were where the copper goes thru the galvanize end....my question is being this is a 19 year old coil how would one with a lot more experience than me decide if its worth the chance of wasting 5# of refrig by putting this back in service or just buying a new A coil......which kind of puts me a catch 22 position - who knows how much longer the outside condenser will last - even though it worked great before the evap leak.
I would trust it.
GFM
I agree with you on notifying the customer. However, R-22 units cannot be converted to R-410A.
GFM
How much would a repair like that cost?
How much did that repair cost
How do you get the heat down that low? That is oxy acetylene isn't it? And what tip are you using? Going to attempt this repair tomorrow. If I get it right it'll save me a ton of money and problems. Thanks
It is oxy-acetylene. I use a #2 tip. You can adjust heat by lengthening the primary feather. That said, I usually do not do that. Its all in the movement of the flame.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman thanks for the reply. I ordered a 00 tip and waited until it came in. Was successful. The smaller tip made a huge difference. My oxygen regulator sporadically bounces so it usually blows the flame out if I go too low on a #2 tip.
Need heat, the Ali fins wick the heat away big time
@@Froggability That is why the oxy/acet torch.
GFM
We use OXY/LPG almost as hot and LPG is miles cheaper
can over charging a system cause condenser to rupture?
It conceivably could. However I wouldn't know as when I see them they have already failed.
GFM
Naic vedeo sir
Hello sir,,
Quick question I want to mak me a small pressure gauge to put it on my small pouch ., what parts I need . Thank u for use help
gali galindo What are you using the gauge for?
GFM
How much repair coil
There are a number of variables here like size of equipment, whether its R-22 or R-410A, etc. But I would expect a minimum of $500 up.
GFM
How long do the copper solder last?
The brazing compound used here will last the life of the unit.
GFM
grayfurnaceman Do you ever use Stay Brite to make some repairs? I used to use it on everything but now I only use it for reversing valves and other temperature sensitive things. I like how I don't need to do a nitrogen purge, it doesn't burn up the insulation inside air handlers or on line sets, and I can carry my little propane torch into attics with me instead of my MC bottle.
grayfurnaceman I've never had an issue with the solder blowing out or leaking any more than brazing.
How do you pull the fins off?
Needle nose pliers.
GFM
How to you fix the fins after your done ?
Great video, thank you! I'm trying to fix a ~ 1/32" to 1/16" diameter puncture in a copper evaporator coil. I don't have Oxy/Ac torch, and I'm looking at alternative to buying a $200-300 kit for this. They don't rent them any more. Looks like MAPP gas (no oxy) from Home Supply store won't get hot enough. Maybe could rig Oxy/MAPP setup? I wouldn't mind having a setup for other projects, but 2-300 is a but much for tinkering.
I have seen other types of patch products (e.g. epoxy based). Any thoughts, Gary? Thanks in advance.
Braze it. Mapp might work.
GFM
I found a place that rents oxy/acet set for $25. These channels are tin coated, and seem thinner than those in this video, I'm concerned about blowing through it. Any thoughts? Should I try to form/add copper patch or coupling?
Also, I'm reading now that for 410 systems the filter drier may need to be replaced if system exposed to air. it didn't run in this state (pin hole from screw occurred while unit was off - doh!). Also reading that oil might need to be replaced? Ugh. Thanks for your insight. Unfortunately don't have the budget for $800 repair, but have a licensed friend that can do the charging.
Yes, they are very thin. Torch control is everything here. Installing a coupling will just make more mess. The drier will definitely need to be replaced. Replace with an oversized drier. The oil is highly hygroscopic. Means it absorbs moisture. You cannot remove moisture with evacuation. Driers are the best way to remove moisture.
GFM
this is a new unit, so would drier need to be replaced?
never run, that is.
is that brazing done while Nitrojen running inside the tube or does not needed ?
+Al Bundy Yes. It should be always run thru when brazing.
GFM
RK SHARMA