One important thing to note here. When adding a VFD, in many times the motor will need to be replaced as well. The motor needs to be Inverter Duty rated to operate with a VFD. If you use a non-inverter duty motor it won't cause immediate damage but it will in the long run lessen the life of the motor quicker due to the harmonics which can damage the motor windings. I see it all the time in HVAC applications where they replace Vortex dampers by adding a VFD to control fan speed to duct static pressure and motors burning out after only a year or two. Ideally, if you replace an HOA or Soft Starter with VFD, make sure the motor is Inverter Duty and if not, the motor should be replaced as well.
Yep I told guy that they needed inverter rated motor instead of general duty motor for evaporator fan motor that burnt out after about two years from being run on VFD. He didn't believe me because said the engineer wouldn't have designed it if it didn't work. Next motor only lasted about same amount of time. Some people think if you're not a licensed engineer you don't know anything. Oh well because I've seen lots of things engineers designed that could of used the advice of a technician that's worked in real world for awhile.
How can you tell if a motor is inverter duty rated?😅 I had a water pump with a 1,5kw 3 phase motor and connected it to a vfd, it will be running at about 15hz constantly as it’s for aquarium use. The nameplate doesn’t reference anything specific 😢
As an engineer who has worked on industrial drives for various applications , this is the only channel which explains these concepts very effectively. Keep sharing these knowledge and also would love if you could share the logic in which parameters are set in the control board.
Keep at it young man, you will never know it all (70 y/o still learning) look at syn RN motors on ABB website. Tessler was a clever bugger! Good luck friend 👌
VFD's are also great for power savings if you have long piping systems with low head pressure required, thus saving on friction losses with higher fluid velocities. One of my primary jobs for awhile was analyzing pumping systems to determine the feasibility of retrofitting VFD's using power savings to build a business case. Saved millions at a water utility company for both water and waste water systems
No studies required if we are talking about replacing any contactor/soft start with a VFD. The flexibility of a VFD is unparalleled and absolutely required for any control over a system. It can certainly improve power requirements in the long term but be sure to include a line reactor before the VFD it this is going to be heavily deployed. Harmonics can hurt a plants power factor immensely. A soft start is on and off, I would rarely recommend, only if that is its sole purpose.
@@shearzy3152 Not necessarily. VFDs also have a much higher power loss. Also because I live in Australia they have a reduced lifespan due to high heat in summer when not airconditioned (though this was in 2012 so tech has probably improved on both fronts). Some waste water piping systems with short runs, high head don't have much energy saving through reducing fluid velocities. Sometimes a pump's performance curve is perfectly ideal for a particularly system with a soft starter so installing a VFD actually cost more in energy due to power losses. I did this work between 2008-2014 and I do data science now rather than electrical engineering so haven't actually seen VFDs for 8 years. Schneider was my prefered
@@deadspeedvthis right here. I am a Rotating Equipment Specialist for Oil/Gas. Mostly pumps. If the pump curve is ideal for the system then you can just run it, otherwise yeah VFD.
These videos are really amazing, I'm a mechatronics student and a hobbyist and always try to rescale the instruments seen on the industrial area to a more home-friendly or toys applications, by watching how the industry works I can also learn to adapt my prototypes in a robust and straight-foward way. Thanks!!
Hi Jonathan, Thanks a lot for your kind compliment! We are always extremely happy to hear such positive feedback! If you ever have any questions, feel free to reach out to us. Happy learning!
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Your videos are totally helpful. I'm a last year student majoring in Control Engineering & Automation. Your channel helped me understand a alot about industrial devices, programing, communication protocols,... Moreover, your channel is one of the best channels for me to learn English. Huge thanks for this channel and the creative team! Hopefully, there will be more better videos in the future
Great simple explanation. I use VFDs with a pressure sensor on vacuum systems at tunnel car washes. As more people use the hoses the system ramps up. Saves money for the owners and wear and tear on the producer and motor.
Back in the day, a soft start was used to reduce the current inrush to the motor for about a few seconds. They are still out there , especially for large direct drive compressors in the refrigeration and HVAC applications. Great video!, but I'm an old coot that rembers those days.
Awesome video! I will just comment on one point to clarify. @1:03 - "A soft starter is generally used in applications where there is a large inrush of current that could damage a motor" The arrow appears to come from the electrical grid into the motor. It is the motor that creates this inrush (drawing on the grid) and as a result can have adverse affect on the electrical grid and other equipment (like a voltage drop dimming the lights). Soft starters are used to protect the integrity / strength of the grid voltage, avoiding dips during motor starting. Soft starters are horrible for motors if starting under any loaded conditions, this is because the torque generated by the motor when operated on a soft start is a squared function of the voltage drop. 50% drop in voltage to start the motor means 25% available rated torque! A 'no load' or 'reduced load' condition would be okay but needs to be reviewed. Both VFD and Soft Starts can be used to protect the grid strength, just a difference in how they do it. Thanks for the video!
Thank you for your comments. It is the motor demand that causes the inrush of current when the motor starts, unless a VFD or soft starter is used to limit the inrush current. When designing a motor control system (starter type, motor type and size, motor protection, etc.), the entire installation environment must be analyzed. How much load on start? Load on stop? Torque requirements? Horsepower requirements? Is speed regulation required? Answering these questions and applying the correct devices will provide for long motor life.
Keep in mind, depending on brand, some soft starters can only start a motor 2 times in an hour. Also, they reduce motor voltage on startup which causes them to draw VERY high amperage through the soft starter.
I'm recent graduate from the control and automation engineering. However I need to learn more and more tasks and your videos are helping me lots of. Thanks for your collaboration. I'm from México City so, at the same time that I reforce my knowledges, I practice the English language.
That is amazing to hear, Ericka! Thanks for sharing your positive feedback with us! You are doing a great job! Keep up the learning curve. Let us know if you ever have any questions along the way! Just to let you know, that we also have a free course on PLC Hardware bit.ly/2XnnUrF Happy learning!
thanks for this video, you just closed safely an argument between me and my manager on some simple application which i decided it'd need only a soft starter but he said it needs a VFD with MC 😁😁😁, i win only by your video, thank you.
Some just prefer VFD on everything. Meh... I see a lot of our pumps, conveyors, separators going to VFD's. Yep believe it or not we still have some Alpha Laval separators still on wye/delta starters :)
@@galyien I'm one of those who like to cut expenses, most of motor driven applications just need start/ stop ramps, overload protection, and that's existing by default in soft starters which are way cheaper than VFD's
Your fan animation will be subject to induced vibrations at higher speeds due to blade geometry. Suggest a VFD and through the versatile settings limit maximum RPM to a value below the tested unstable zone or find a fan supply source with a design department consuming far less Red Bull.
Haha... Yeah. The fan blades don't look too optimized, carbonated energy drink was a factor. :) In all seriousness, the animation was pretty well done. Helped me understand the difference between VFD and soft start.
Softstarter will draw current between 300% to 500% at the startup, so whether the source supply can handle or no, that should also be considered. In this context VFD has the advantage
VFD always has the advantage, a properly sized VFD can handle the inrush and has speed, ramp up, ramp down control. Among hundreds of other parameters. Softstarts are only used when the load is running consistently with minimal occurrences of on/off state. From a controls perspective, VFDs are king, especially with EIP control nowadays.
Im now further in to my Automation education. These movies i have been watching for some weeks. Let me tell you ! Very formal and very easy to follow. English isnt my main language, but listening to the very calm and easy to hear voice, and looking at the pictures and examples REALLY makes this a whole lot easier to grasp and even learn than any of my teachers ^^. This is very good if you are just starting up with Automation. Kudos ! Greeting from Sweden :)
That's amazing to hear! Thank you so much for sharing such positive feedback. If you have any questions along the way, please do not hesitate to contact us at any time - we're happy to help!
What a great video Can you please update a video for parameters of both VFD and Softstarter. What are all the most important parameter setup to be known?? How to setup speed reference and speed control ? Etc
Just get the manual of the Vfd and it will have all the info. Typically a vfd you set motor parameters (Volts, current, power, poles, rpm, min and max frequency). Then wire switches to connect a common terminal to digital inputs. Program digital inputs to do what you want with motor (fixed speed or use analog reference for speed such as 0-10v or 4-20mA signal from a controller or a potentiometer. Motor ramp speeds and curves. These are common uses, but there are 100s of more settings.
Thank You For such a nice Explanation ! Never imagined so much Technology involved in Startup. We take it for granted ! Just a flick of the switch I used to think. Changed my perspective.
Speed Control is the real driver for the VFD since they cost more with an internal rectifier, DC bus (fiilter), and inverter. While the Soft start is typically just a 6 thyristor package (a gate controlled diode) or basically just an inverter.
I would add that a soft starter or VFD is also used to save mechanical wear on what you are driving...conveyors, piping, etc. Anything especially with a lot of starts/stops per hour.
As a senior applications engineer in the circuit board drilling industry, I've worked with some impressive frequency converters. Drilling machines have to control air-bearing spindles from 0 to 180,000 RPM. The drill bits are as small as 0.0020" diameter. Typical diameter is between 0.0100" and 0.0250". These converters are closed loop via a tachometer mounted inside the spindle. By carefully controlling the voltage and frequency, a spindle can be accelerated to 180,000 RPM in about 6 or 7 seconds. Decelerating the spindle is also done in about 6 seconds using regenerative braking into a large ceramic resistor. To hold the spindle at 0 RPM, a small DC voltage is applied to the spindle.
Thanks a lot, Ahsan. Happy to hear that you are enjoying the course videos. In that case, you will probably enjoy our free course on PLC Hardware as well bit.ly/2XnnUrF Happy learning!
It is a very good video with good examples, Only, I have a small disagree, the reason for using a soft starter is not for protecting the motor. In my particular point of view the soft starter is to avoid the electrical system or feeder of peak currents, the standard or nema motors are 99% capable (and designed) to be started across the line, Without any problems to the motor, Anyhow it would be a benefit, to start and stop a motor with a controlled ramp, for the mechanical (load) and electrical systems.
Ever hear of a period? A soft starter is to protect the motor from excessive wear from sudden full on starting. It may have an effect at protecting a feeding electrical system (if that’s what you’re trying to say) but the electrical systems are designed and rated to supply the full load regardless of the starting component.
@@JR-ep5fq And how about the voltage Drop? That is always a $ problem. You have to select bigger wires Thats why the oldie methodology for starting motors like: slipping rings, autotransformers for reduced voltaje starters, delta wye starters. Etc. Etc. That old tec was to avoid line voltage Drop,; when you start huge hp motor across the line. I agree that a vfd will help to protect the motor, the load and the electrical system. And the VFD give us the posibility to manage the motor speed .
*Interestingly a VFD itself is subject to huge inrush current when first connected to the mains*. This can happen with absolutely no 3PH motor (load) connected to its output terminals! This is because the VFD's first job is to convert the 50-60Hz single phase line voltage to filtered DC. The filtered DC powers both the low voltage logic circuitry and the high voltage 3PH variable frequency output voltage. This requires large Electrolytic Caps on the input side of the VFD. It's these large caps that cause the high startup (inrush) current when first connecting to the mains. Typically, VFD manufacturers employ MOV's in series with the Mains input to help reduce this high inrush current. MOV's alone are not a cure all because MOV's are pitifully slow when cooling down to room temperature (Hi Resistance) state. Because of this the manufacturer of my VFD plastered warnings all over page (1) of the Users Manual. These warnings stress avoiding repeatedly Connecting and Disconnecting the VFD to the Mains Input. They further stress long cool down periods prior to reconnecting to the mains. In fact, all the VFD's I've encountered don't even employ an ON/OFF switch! Considering all the impressive things a modern VFD can do I was initially surprised to not find a Power - On/Off switch on them. Not any longer though as I understand why. In first testing my VFD I guarded against high inrush current by manually switch shunting a current limiting resistor. subsequent to a power outage. This is because there are few thing in a shop that are more dangerous than high power motors unexpectedly stopping and starting! Wakodahatchee Chris
I don't know what happened but my last paragraph should have read like this: In first testing my VFD I guarded against high inrush current by manually switch shunting a current limiting resistor. I'm designing an automatic circuit that will automate inrush current limiting while also disconnect the VFD from the Mains subsequent to a power outage. This is because there are few thing in a shop that are more dangerous than high power motors unexpectedly stopping and starting! Wakodahatchee Chris
Thanks giving is deserved to you in abundance sir.Because you prove "and motivate meeks and weaks into professionalsprofessionally that "Knowledge is to serve
Soft start is for any situation where dol is a problem. Eg causing lights to dim or vee belts scorching on start up. Soft start is miles different from a VFD
Not trying to be picky but going way back when VFDs were a rare and costly we installed soft starting to protect the machine as a starter is harsh on big machines Currently VFDs have reached a price point were the only traditional starters we have in use on on the boiler feed water pumps as it’s so hot it would be challenging for a VFD Even the standard starters our much starter now as they have and led that blinks codes to set the overload
Karen Politely the ambient temperature and humidity our above the rating even with a NEMA 4 enclosure as they all require a non-condensing atmosphere which is difficult in steam environment and in this case we remote the VFDs to a temperature/Humidity controlled room
I recently installed a soft starter on my central A/C to reduce inrush amps for a whole house generator I will install in the future. It reduced the inrush amps from 120A to 40A.
@@briannuckley2 I just measured inrush amps, I do not believe a soft start would reduce running amps. It learned how much power was needed to start the compressor and fan over a few starts. It started at 120 then down to 80, 60, 40 something like that over a few starts, I can hear it click first and it delays the compressor I think after the fan starts. Soft starter learns what is actually needed to start.
My lathe, two milling machines, shaper and drilling machine are controlled by VFDs, only the lathe having a dedicated unit, the other 4 machines sharing two VFDs with each having a three position 3-phase selector changeover switch to direct power to a single machine of choice, power switched off of course. What a pleasure being able to select the correct speed depending on circumstances and what type of metal used and rate of removal. The hassle of stepped pulleys and belt changing a thing of the past. The drilling machine and lathe are now an absolute pleasure to use as speed is now instantly controlled to suit depth of cut with metal being used.
I'm working for almost 24 years as an electrical maintenance supervisor in a manufacturing plant thats why I appreciate your video for teaching the young engineers how this stuff works.
Affective Energy saving can be done with vfd by reducing the motor speed in many applications. & in term of energy saving, vfd cost pay back period is only within months.
Thank you for the excellent video, For applications such as overhead cranes long travel motors, is better to use VFD if I want to start with a smoother acceleration? Is there any series you recommend for such application which may sustain in summer season (hot temp.)? Also, is it possible to run two motors with only one VFD if sized correctly and sync. together? I appreciate your help
Thank you for your question. To achieve a smoother acceleration with your Variable Frequency Drive (VFD), you can adjust the program settings and parameters as outlined in your operator's manual. Additionally, it is possible to run multiple motors using a VFD as long as it is appropriately powered and sized. Your vendor should be able to assist you in determining the correct VFD size for the number of motors you intend to use. Regarding the heat rating, it is crucial to examine the IP and heat rating specifications of both your VFD and the specific motor in question. If feasible, consider providing proper ventilation or installing the VFD in a cabinet with cooling mechanisms, and ensure that the motor is adequately cooled to prevent it from exceeding temperature specifications. We hope you find this information helpful in your learning journey with RealPars!
VFD usage requires use of motor and cables designed for VFD operation. Use of non-VFD motor shortens the life of motor significantly. Therefore you cannot replace soft starter with VFD unless you are willing to take big hit on motor life.
Thank you for your question. The answer can be complex and varies depending on your location and the specific equipment you intend to control. Initially, the controller's housing casing should meet food-grade standards to withstand cleaning, including exposure to water. An IPXX waterproof rating is typically required. It would be advisable to consult with your local food equipment supplier regarding suitable controllers for your application. Many manufacturers in the food industry offer specialized controllers, such as Siemens. For further information, you may explore options with them.
If I select the best motor control I will select VFD because can control the speed and current, compare to the soft controller when you start the motor controller motor start at maximum current to meet the required speed to run the motor.
at a time how many motors can be controlled by a vfd, for example is it 1vfd per motor or I can have 1 vfd for 3 motors? thanks in advance and really very good video, clear and easy to understand explanations-which is hard to find. great job!
Typically, you would control only one motor per VFD. However, you can connect multiple motors to a single VFD IF the following guidelines are followed: www.rockwellautomation.com/en-us/company/news/blogs/controlling-multiple-motors-with-one-vfd.html. You will need to provide proper over-current protection for each motor.
Both those examples a soft start could work just fine with. The water pump had a reservoir and could be cycled on and off as it filled and depleted. Same with the fan. As the system built heat the fan cycles on with more airflow than necessary to cool and cycles off once it reaches the low end of its spectrum. . Take the reservoir out of the first problem and use the vfd to vary line motor rpm to maintain line pressure. . Duty cycle is also an important concept for electric motors. How long it can be run is an important aspect to choosing the appropriate controller.
This is great! I hope someone can help me with this question though. In the event that a VFD within a circuit board experiences very high values of instantaneous current, can a soft starter be used to control this be connecting it in series with the VFD? (note that the VFD circuit has overcurrent/abnormal voltage shields e.g. varistors, surge arresters, and choke coils) Thank you in advance for the response.
You would never use a soft-starter in series with a VFD. Both can regulate the amount of in-rush current on startup and, therefore, each can provide starting current protection alone.
No you can’t. Both on input and output this would cause problems. On input : vfd can’t start due to low startup voltage coming from ss. On output : ss can’t handle frequencies put out by vfd.
Hi there, Thanks for your comment! You can share our video as long as it remains unmodified, tagged and credited back to us. However, downloading our videos from TH-cam or RealPars platform and re-uploading it elsewhere goes against TH-cam and also RealPars copyright. Thanks for understanding!
What is the cutoff horsepower in which in rush current would be too dangerous for across the line applications? In other words, what is the smallest load that a soft starter would be required? I had a debate with some of the engineers at my work. A civil engineer told me you could get up to 10-15 hp on across the line pumps, but the electrical engineer told me that he would require a soft starter for anything above 5 hp
Thank you for your question. That is a good one, but it is not easy to answer because it is not a one-size-fits-all question. It depends on your engineering requirements and your application. Your wire size, feeder breakers, substation feeds, etc. The drive motor requirements in a steel plant are similar to those in a pharmaceutical plant or packing plant. And the soft starter requirements calculation must be done for the applications if you use them. Therefore, it’s one “Size does not fit all.”
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One important thing to note here. When adding a VFD, in many times the motor will need to be replaced as well. The motor needs to be Inverter Duty rated to operate with a VFD. If you use a non-inverter duty motor it won't cause immediate damage but it will in the long run lessen the life of the motor quicker due to the harmonics which can damage the motor windings. I see it all the time in HVAC applications where they replace Vortex dampers by adding a VFD to control fan speed to duct static pressure and motors burning out after only a year or two. Ideally, if you replace an HOA or Soft Starter with VFD, make sure the motor is Inverter Duty and if not, the motor should be replaced as well.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us, Juan. We appreciate that!
Yep I told guy that they needed inverter rated motor instead of general duty motor for evaporator fan motor that burnt out after about two years from being run on VFD. He didn't believe me because said the engineer wouldn't have designed it if it didn't work. Next motor only lasted about same amount of time. Some people think if you're not a licensed engineer you don't know anything. Oh well because I've seen lots of things engineers designed that could of used the advice of a technician that's worked in real world for awhile.
Before you actually destroy the winding, bearings will be destroyed due to bearing currents. It may however not occur in water pump applications
Fact 💯,case harmonic filter's maybe prevent this issue?
How can you tell if a motor is inverter duty rated?😅 I had a water pump with a 1,5kw 3 phase motor and connected it to a vfd, it will be running at about 15hz constantly as it’s for aquarium use. The nameplate doesn’t reference anything specific 😢
As an engineer who has worked on industrial drives for various applications , this is the only channel which explains these concepts very effectively.
Keep sharing these knowledge and also would love if you could share the logic in which parameters are set in the control board.
That's a great compliment, Nikhil! Thanks a lot!
Can you tell me in chinese what is that ? thank you very much.
that is a great deal of knowledge, hence thank so much for your sharing this
Keep at it young man, you will never know it all (70 y/o still learning) look at syn RN motors on ABB website. Tessler was a clever bugger!
Good luck friend 👌
Instablaster.
I'm enrolled online for Automation, Robotics, and PLC and I have to say this is by far easier to understand. Thank you.
Happy to hear that, Micah! Thanks for your support!
As a Technician this is a valuable information for me, explained in very simple way, subscribed the channel.
Awesome, thank you!
VFD's are also great for power savings if you have long piping systems with low head pressure required, thus saving on friction losses with higher fluid velocities. One of my primary jobs for awhile was analyzing pumping systems to determine the feasibility of retrofitting VFD's using power savings to build a business case. Saved millions at a water utility company for both water and waste water systems
No studies required if we are talking about replacing any contactor/soft start with a VFD. The flexibility of a VFD is unparalleled and absolutely required for any control over a system. It can certainly improve power requirements in the long term but be sure to include a line reactor before the VFD it this is going to be heavily deployed. Harmonics can hurt a plants power factor immensely. A soft start is on and off, I would rarely recommend, only if that is its sole purpose.
offcorse
@@shearzy3152 Not necessarily. VFDs also have a much higher power loss. Also because I live in Australia they have a reduced lifespan due to high heat in summer when not airconditioned (though this was in 2012 so tech has probably improved on both fronts). Some waste water piping systems with short runs, high head don't have much energy saving through reducing fluid velocities. Sometimes a pump's performance curve is perfectly ideal for a particularly system with a soft starter so installing a VFD actually cost more in energy due to power losses. I did this work between 2008-2014 and I do data science now rather than electrical engineering so haven't actually seen VFDs for 8 years. Schneider was my prefered
@@deadspeedvthis right here. I am a Rotating Equipment Specialist for Oil/Gas. Mostly pumps. If the pump curve is ideal for the system then you can just run it, otherwise yeah VFD.
These videos are really amazing, I'm a mechatronics student and a hobbyist and always try to rescale the instruments seen on the industrial area to a more home-friendly or toys applications, by watching how the industry works I can also learn to adapt my prototypes in a robust and straight-foward way. Thanks!!
Hi Jonathan,
Thanks a lot for your kind compliment! We are always extremely happy to hear such positive feedback! If you ever have any questions, feel free to reach out to us.
Happy learning!
still an electrical trainee these are videos for my training keep it up
Happy to hear that, Assios!
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Your videos are totally helpful. I'm a last year student majoring in Control Engineering & Automation. Your channel helped me understand a alot about industrial devices, programing, communication protocols,... Moreover, your channel is one of the best channels for me to learn English. Huge thanks for this channel and the creative team! Hopefully, there will be more better videos in the future
Thank you so much! We truly appreciate your support!
Excellent presentation. In addition, use of a VFD for a conveyor drive helps because we need max torque and low speed
Thanks a lot for your support, Sid!
Thanks for showing video and your explainations.
Great simple explanation. I use VFDs with a pressure sensor on vacuum systems at tunnel car washes. As more people use the hoses the system ramps up. Saves money for the owners and wear and tear on the producer and motor.
Thanks for your support!
হাগগগ
Back in the day, a soft start was used to reduce the current inrush to the motor for about a few seconds. They are still out there , especially for large direct drive compressors in the refrigeration and HVAC applications. Great video!, but I'm an old coot that rembers those days.
Thanks for your comment, Dale! Great to hear your thoughts and knowledge on this topic!
Awesome video! I will just comment on one point to clarify. @1:03 - "A soft starter is generally used in applications where there is a large inrush of current that could damage a motor" The arrow appears to come from the electrical grid into the motor. It is the motor that creates this inrush (drawing on the grid) and as a result can have adverse affect on the electrical grid and other equipment (like a voltage drop dimming the lights). Soft starters are used to protect the integrity / strength of the grid voltage, avoiding dips during motor starting. Soft starters are horrible for motors if starting under any loaded conditions, this is because the torque generated by the motor when operated on a soft start is a squared function of the voltage drop. 50% drop in voltage to start the motor means 25% available rated torque! A 'no load' or 'reduced load' condition would be okay but needs to be reviewed.
Both VFD and Soft Starts can be used to protect the grid strength, just a difference in how they do it. Thanks for the video!
Thank you for your comments. It is the motor demand that causes the inrush of current when the motor starts, unless a VFD or soft starter is used to limit the inrush current. When designing a motor control system (starter type, motor type and size, motor protection, etc.), the entire installation environment must be analyzed. How much load on start? Load on stop? Torque requirements? Horsepower requirements? Is speed regulation required? Answering these questions and applying the correct devices will provide for long motor life.
We use soft starters to start pumps slowly to protect PCV piping from breaking.
that's a uhhh pretty good opinion Michael?
that's not the actual purpose of soft starters though. but cool
That's good explanation for understanding VFD and softstarter , especilly to beganner likeme. Thanks
Glad it was helpful!
The way realpars presents videos is really commendable.
Thanks for your support, Awais!
BEST EXPLANATION FOR VFD AND SOFT STARTERS, HANDS DOWN, THANK YOU,
Thanks for the feedback and suggesiton, Yasser!
Keep in mind, depending on brand, some soft starters can only start a motor 2 times in an hour. Also, they reduce motor voltage on startup which causes them to draw VERY high amperage through the soft starter.
these aren't transformers yk they are just transistor, valves
so these don't cause high current to draw
I'm recent graduate from the control and automation engineering. However I need to learn more and more tasks and your videos are helping me lots of. Thanks for your collaboration. I'm from México City so, at the same time that I reforce my knowledges, I practice the English language.
That is amazing to hear, Ericka! Thanks for sharing your positive feedback with us! You are doing a great job! Keep up the learning curve.
Let us know if you ever have any questions along the way!
Just to let you know, that we also have a free course on PLC Hardware bit.ly/2XnnUrF
Happy learning!
VFD also have the added advantage of being able to converting single phase to 3 phase.
Is it possible in Siemens vfd pm240 series.
Please guide me
yes it is possible, we are also converting single phase DC to three phase AC.
@@ravisaroj28 single phase DC ?
only up to about 3HP
after 3hp you will need three phase input power
This video is very effective and most useful for an engineer.. Thank you very much sir.
Glad it was helpful!
we are getting skilled with the knowledge you giving us. thank you.
Amazing compliment, Robby! Thank you!
Did contactord ever amplifier
thanks for this video, you just closed safely an argument between me and my manager on some simple application which i decided it'd need only a soft starter but he said it needs a VFD with MC 😁😁😁, i win only by your video, thank you.
Thats amazing, Ibrahim! What a great compliment. Thanks for sharing that with us! Happy learning!
Some just prefer VFD on everything. Meh... I see a lot of our pumps, conveyors, separators going to VFD's. Yep believe it or not we still have some Alpha Laval separators still on wye/delta starters :)
@@galyien I'm one of those who like to cut expenses, most of motor driven applications just need start/ stop ramps, overload protection, and that's existing by default in soft starters which are way cheaper than VFD's
Your fan animation will be subject to induced vibrations at higher speeds due to blade geometry. Suggest a VFD and through the versatile settings limit maximum RPM to a value below the tested unstable zone or find a fan supply source with a design department consuming far less Red Bull.
Haha... Yeah. The fan blades don't look too optimized, carbonated energy drink was a factor. :) In all seriousness, the animation was pretty well done. Helped me understand the difference between VFD and soft start.
The way of explaining is awesome...🤟
Thank you so much!
Softstarter will draw current between 300% to 500% at the startup, so whether the source supply can handle or no, that should also be considered. In this context VFD has the advantage
VFD always has the advantage, a properly sized VFD can handle the inrush and has speed, ramp up, ramp down control. Among hundreds of other parameters. Softstarts are only used when the load is running consistently with minimal occurrences of on/off state. From a controls perspective, VFDs are king, especially with EIP control nowadays.
This channel is GOLD
Thank you very much!
I like the IGBT's in the VFDs. When i found defective VFDs that are thrown away i like to remove these IGBTs and use them for my own projects.
wow thanks for recycling and help the earth.
Im now further in to my Automation education.
These movies i have been watching for some weeks. Let me tell you !
Very formal and very easy to follow. English isnt my main language, but listening to the very calm and easy to hear voice, and looking at the pictures and examples REALLY makes this a whole lot easier to grasp and even learn than any of my teachers ^^.
This is very good if you are just starting up with Automation.
Kudos !
Greeting from Sweden :)
That's amazing to hear! Thank you so much for sharing such positive feedback.
If you have any questions along the way, please do not hesitate to contact us at any time - we're happy to help!
@@realpars thank you for you response !
And thank you again :) i will make sure to remember that !
What a great video
Can you please update a video for parameters of both VFD and Softstarter. What are all the most important parameter setup to be known?? How to setup speed reference and speed control ? Etc
Thanks for the topic suggestion, Mohamed! I have forwarded this to our creator team. Thanks!
1. FLC of your motor
2. Supply voltage eg. 400V
Maybe you have interest in our products. topstock.aliexpress.com
Just get the manual of the Vfd and it will have all the info. Typically a vfd you set motor parameters (Volts, current, power, poles, rpm, min and max frequency). Then wire switches to connect a common terminal to digital inputs. Program digital inputs to do what you want with motor (fixed speed or use analog reference for speed such as 0-10v or 4-20mA signal from a controller or a potentiometer. Motor ramp speeds and curves. These are common uses, but there are 100s of more settings.
I am from India and I really impressed with your explanation style very easy to understand
Great to hear that, Shailendra! Thanks for your support.
Happy learning, please let us know if you have any questions along the way!
Thank You For such a nice Explanation ! Never imagined so much Technology involved in Startup. We take it for granted ! Just a flick of the switch I used to think. Changed my perspective.
Speed Control is the real driver for the VFD since they cost more with an internal rectifier, DC bus (fiilter), and inverter. While the Soft start is typically just a 6 thyristor package (a gate controlled diode) or basically just an inverter.
yes.
Clearly explained the difference between VFD & SS and its usage.. Thanks
You're more than welcome!
I would add that a soft starter or VFD is also used to save mechanical wear on what you are driving...conveyors, piping, etc. Anything especially with a lot of starts/stops per hour.
Tunnel car wash equipment. Use both depending on the situation.
A VFD handles fluctuating demands and a soft start handles continuous demands
Thank you for your efforts ☺️... I learnt about soft starters and INVERTER DUTY rated motor....
You're very welcome! Happy learning
you don't need inverter duty rated motor even if you have a VFD, you could just use a capacitor. also you can still use if you want inverter duty
Sir you're excellent teacher thanks
As a senior applications engineer in the circuit board drilling industry, I've worked with some impressive frequency converters. Drilling machines have to control air-bearing spindles from 0 to 180,000 RPM. The drill bits are as small as 0.0020" diameter. Typical diameter is between 0.0100" and 0.0250". These converters are closed loop via a tachometer mounted inside the spindle. By carefully controlling the voltage and frequency, a spindle can be accelerated to 180,000 RPM in about 6 or 7 seconds. Decelerating the spindle is also done in about 6 seconds using regenerative braking into a large ceramic resistor. To hold the spindle at 0 RPM, a small DC voltage is applied to the spindle.
Hi Greg,
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience with us. We are always happy to read such comments.
Thanks again and happy learning!
As an electrical engineer this is so satisfying video ever seen. Love from Pakistan.
Thanks a lot, Ahsan. Happy to hear that you are enjoying the course videos.
In that case, you will probably enjoy our free course on PLC Hardware as well bit.ly/2XnnUrF
Happy learning!
@@realpars Sure.
Simple & Easy way of Explanation. Thanks
Great to hear that! Happy learning.
Thanks for getting it with so much of clarity
You are very welcome, Anuraag! Happy to hear that you enjoying our course videos!
It is a very good video with good examples, Only, I have a small disagree, the reason for using a soft starter is not for protecting the motor. In my particular point of view the soft starter is to avoid the electrical system or feeder of peak currents, the standard or nema motors are 99% capable (and designed) to be started across the line, Without any problems to the motor, Anyhow it would be a benefit, to start and stop a motor with a controlled ramp, for the mechanical (load) and electrical systems.
Ever hear of a period? A soft starter is to protect the motor from excessive wear from sudden full on starting. It may have an effect at protecting a feeding electrical system (if that’s what you’re trying to say) but the electrical systems are designed and rated to supply the full load regardless of the starting component.
@@JR-ep5fq And how about the voltage Drop? That is always a $ problem. You have to select bigger wires Thats why the oldie methodology for starting motors like: slipping rings, autotransformers for reduced voltaje starters, delta wye starters. Etc. Etc. That old tec was to avoid line voltage Drop,; when you start huge hp motor across the line. I agree that a vfd will help to protect the motor, the load and the electrical system. And the VFD give us the posibility to manage the motor speed .
Can you please also make a video on complete circuit/operation of UPS, and different types of protection how they work practically?
Thanks for the suggestion, Waseem! I will forward this to our creator team. Hopefully, they can add it to the list! Happy learning!
Contact me for ups
Simple and very clear explanation. Thank you 😊.
Glad it was helpful!
so clear explanation and easy to understand
Glad it was helpful!
*Interestingly a VFD itself is subject to huge inrush current when first connected to the mains*. This can happen with absolutely no 3PH motor (load) connected to its output terminals! This is because the VFD's first job is to convert the 50-60Hz single phase line voltage to filtered DC. The filtered DC powers both the low voltage logic circuitry and the high voltage 3PH variable frequency output voltage. This requires large Electrolytic Caps on the input side of the VFD. It's these large caps that cause the high startup (inrush) current when first connecting to the mains. Typically, VFD manufacturers employ MOV's in series with the Mains input to help reduce this high inrush current. MOV's alone are not a cure all because MOV's are pitifully slow when cooling down to room temperature (Hi Resistance) state. Because of this the manufacturer of my VFD plastered warnings all over page (1) of the Users Manual. These warnings stress avoiding repeatedly Connecting and Disconnecting the VFD to the Mains Input. They further stress long cool down periods prior to reconnecting to the mains. In fact, all the VFD's I've encountered don't even employ an ON/OFF switch! Considering all the impressive things a modern VFD can do I was initially surprised to not find a Power - On/Off switch on them. Not any longer though as I understand why. In first testing my VFD I guarded against high inrush current by manually switch shunting a current limiting resistor.
subsequent to a power outage. This is because there are few thing in a shop that are more dangerous than high power motors unexpectedly stopping and starting!
Wakodahatchee Chris
I don't know what happened but my last paragraph should have read like this:
In first testing my VFD I
guarded against high inrush current by manually
switch shunting a current limiting resistor.
I'm designing an automatic circuit that will automate
inrush current limiting while also disconnect the VFD
from the Mains subsequent to a power outage. This is
because there are few thing in a shop that are more
dangerous than high power motors unexpectedly
stopping and starting!
Wakodahatchee Chris
Great Video for initiators in the field
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks giving is deserved to you in abundance sir.Because you prove "and motivate meeks and weaks into professionalsprofessionally that "Knowledge is to serve
Great to hear that, Thobias! Thanks for sharing!
Totally helped me on my presentation tomorrow. Thank you 100%
Glad it helped with your presentation!
Soft start is for any situation where dol is a problem. Eg causing lights to dim or vee belts scorching on start up.
Soft start is miles different from a VFD
Not trying to be picky but going way back when VFDs were a rare and costly we installed soft starting to protect the machine as a starter is harsh on big machines
Currently VFDs have reached a price point were the only traditional starters we have in use on on the boiler feed water pumps as it’s so hot it would be challenging for a VFD
Even the standard starters our much starter now as they have and led that blinks codes to set the overload
@Karen the heat of the process trashes the VFD circuitry, or a lot of electronics cooling that is expensive to implement.
Karen
Politely the ambient temperature and humidity our above the rating even with a NEMA 4 enclosure as they all require a non-condensing atmosphere which is difficult in steam environment and in this case we remote the VFDs to a temperature/Humidity controlled room
I recently installed a soft starter on my central A/C to reduce inrush amps for a whole house generator I will install in the future. It reduced the inrush amps from 120A to 40A.
Nolaman , did it reduce the running amps ?
@@briannuckley2 I just measured inrush amps, I do not believe a soft start would reduce running amps. It learned how much power was needed to start the compressor and fan over a few starts. It started at 120 then down to 80, 60, 40 something like that over a few starts, I can hear it click first and it delays the compressor I think after the fan starts. Soft starter learns what is actually needed to start.
We are using vlt 2855 , FCD300,FCM300, DANFOSS SOFTSTARTER AND RETRO
My lathe, two milling machines, shaper and drilling machine are controlled by VFDs, only the lathe having a dedicated unit, the other 4 machines sharing two VFDs with each having a three position 3-phase selector changeover switch to direct power to a single machine of choice, power switched off of course.
What a pleasure being able to select the correct speed depending on circumstances and what type of metal used and rate of removal.
The hassle of stepped pulleys and belt changing a thing of the past.
The drilling machine and lathe are now an absolute pleasure to use as speed is now instantly controlled to suit depth of cut with metal being used.
Vfds also offer protections such as overcurrent, u/o voltage etc.
Assalam o alikom. Amir fro i am from s.korea please contact.me.
Great video....easy to understand. Good job.
Thanks for your support, Jim!
I'm working for almost 24 years as an electrical maintenance supervisor in a manufacturing plant thats why I appreciate your video for teaching the young engineers how this stuff works.
Very informative. Process Control engineer from Kenya. Keep up!
Great! Thanks for your support, Robert!
Simplest way of explaining the difference between VFD and Soft Starter. Subscribed your channel
Thanks a million, Mohammed! Great to hear that.
Very clear explanation, thank u for sharing.
Glad it was helpful! Happy learning, Dave
Thanks so much for this information I'm from 🇩🇿🇩🇿
You're very welcome!
Thanks for all of your educative videos! Please make some videos on AC ratings of motors and what is meant by SIL rating of PLCs. Thanks again!
Thanks for the topic suggestion, Bilal. I will definitely go ahead and forward this to our creator team. Happy learning!
Affective Energy saving can be done with vfd by reducing the motor speed in many applications. & in term of energy saving, vfd cost pay back period is only within months.
Nice video explains about soft starter and VFD. Thank you for your clear explanation
Great to hear! You are very welcome.
I follow your chanel from egypt 🇪🇬 👍🏻
Good morning , desde Colombia gracias
Very good explanation thank you so much
Glad it was helpful!
Crystal clear explanation.👏👏
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for the excellent video,
For applications such as overhead cranes long travel motors, is better to use VFD if I want to start with a smoother acceleration? Is there any series you recommend for such application which may sustain in summer season (hot temp.)?
Also, is it possible to run two motors with only one VFD if sized correctly and sync. together?
I appreciate your help
Thank you for your question. To achieve a smoother acceleration with your Variable Frequency Drive (VFD), you can adjust the program settings and parameters as outlined in your operator's manual. Additionally, it is possible to run multiple motors using a VFD as long as it is appropriately powered and sized. Your vendor should be able to assist you in determining the correct VFD size for the number of motors you intend to use.
Regarding the heat rating, it is crucial to examine the IP and heat rating specifications of both your VFD and the specific motor in question. If feasible, consider providing proper ventilation or installing the VFD in a cabinet with cooling mechanisms, and ensure that the motor is adequately cooled to prevent it from exceeding temperature specifications.
We hope you find this information helpful in your learning journey with RealPars!
Thanks brow I am obtain some hint about soft starter and VFD.keep it up.
You are most welcome!
Soft starter not smooth current. It takes lot of starting current depends upon current limit.
VFD usage requires use of motor and cables designed for VFD operation. Use of non-VFD motor shortens the life of motor significantly. Therefore you cannot replace soft starter with VFD unless you are willing to take big hit on motor life.
Thanks for adding that, Borys!
VFD required special cable? care to elaborate more
Soft starter is just a modern view of the Delta - Star principle
The VFD/VSD is a whole other world
Thank you very much... Excellent explanation...
Glad it was helpful!
Very cool. Very well explained, I would like to congratulate you for the initiative.
Thank you very much!
Great video! Clear , concise and at a good level.
Thanks for your support, Montag!
What would be the best device for milking equipment at a dairy? Milking and cooling equipment?
Thank you for your question. The answer can be complex and varies depending on your location and the specific equipment you intend to control. Initially, the controller's housing casing should meet food-grade standards to withstand cleaning, including exposure to water. An IPXX waterproof rating is typically required. It would be advisable to consult with your local food equipment supplier regarding suitable controllers for your application. Many manufacturers in the food industry offer specialized controllers, such as Siemens. For further information, you may explore options with them.
Thanks for the information sharing. Please make and share some Information on starting of HV Motors. Soft starters and Triac working.
Hi Altaf!
Thanks for your comment and your suggestion. I will pass this on to our course developers!
Thanks for sharing and happy learning!
If I select the best motor control I will select VFD because can control the speed and current, compare to the soft controller when you start the motor controller motor start at maximum current to meet the required speed to run the motor.
Thank you very much .
You are really helping me
It's our pleasure! Happy learning
at a time how many motors can be controlled by a vfd, for example is it 1vfd per motor or I can have 1 vfd for 3 motors? thanks in advance and really very good video, clear and easy to understand explanations-which is hard to find. great job!
Typically, you would control only one motor per VFD. However, you can connect multiple motors to a single VFD IF the following guidelines are followed: www.rockwellautomation.com/en-us/company/news/blogs/controlling-multiple-motors-with-one-vfd.html. You will need to provide proper over-current protection for each motor.
@@realpars thanks for your quick response
Great video! Clear and concise !!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for sharing, Glaucio
Hi, I like your lecture. Thanks
You are welcome!
Wow , wow , wow great effort , thank you very much realpars team for these high quality videos :)
Ahmed from egypt
You are very welcome, Ahmed!
It was been very usefull lesson.Thank you very much, your explane iş very good.(in İstanbul)
You are welcome! Glad to hear that.
Very useful presentation tnx realpars.
Thanks for your comment!
Both those examples a soft start could work just fine with. The water pump had a reservoir and could be cycled on and off as it filled and depleted. Same with the fan. As the system built heat the fan cycles on with more airflow than necessary to cool and cycles off once it reaches the low end of its spectrum.
.
Take the reservoir out of the first problem and use the vfd to vary line motor rpm to maintain line pressure.
.
Duty cycle is also an important concept for electric motors. How long it can be run is an important aspect to choosing the appropriate controller.
Great comment! Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.
We always highly appreciate that!
Thanks so much
Very usefull information
Saludes desde Honduras
Glad to hear that, Arnulfo! Thanks for sharing.
Tq soooooooooo much good knowledge in this video please follow this type of topics
You're very welcome!
This is great! I hope someone can help me with this question though. In the event that a VFD within a circuit board experiences very high values of instantaneous current, can a soft starter be used to control this be connecting it in series with the VFD? (note that the VFD circuit has overcurrent/abnormal voltage shields e.g. varistors, surge arresters, and choke coils)
Thank you in advance for the response.
You would never use a soft-starter in series with a VFD. Both can regulate the amount of in-rush current on startup and, therefore, each can provide starting current protection alone.
No you can’t. Both on input and output this would cause problems. On input : vfd can’t start due to low startup voltage coming from ss. On output : ss can’t handle frequencies put out by vfd.
very cool..thanks for your information sir...so i know the difference between VFD and Soft Starter
You are welcome! Glad to hear that.
Very educative content. Please let us know if we shall share this video on our platforms?
Hi there,
Thanks for your comment!
You can share our video as long as it remains unmodified, tagged and credited back to us. However, downloading our videos from TH-cam or RealPars platform and re-uploading it elsewhere goes against TH-cam and also RealPars copyright.
Thanks for understanding!
@@realpars Hello noted we shall use links then. Thank you.
Very nice animation!
I'm glad you like it
Excellent presentation!!!
Thank you!
What is the cutoff horsepower in which in rush current would be too dangerous for across the line applications? In other words, what is the smallest load that a soft starter would be required? I had a debate with some of the engineers at my work. A civil engineer told me you could get up to 10-15 hp on across the line pumps, but the electrical engineer told me that he would require a soft starter for anything above 5 hp
Thank you for your question. That is a good one, but it is not easy to answer because it is not a one-size-fits-all question. It depends on your engineering requirements and your application. Your wire size, feeder breakers, substation feeds, etc. The drive motor requirements in a steel plant are similar to those in a pharmaceutical plant or packing plant. And the soft starter requirements calculation must be done for the applications if you use them. Therefore, it’s one “Size does not fit all.”
Excellent illustration, thank you
Great to hear that! Thanks for sharing, Ahmed!
Great explanation thanks for this video
Thanks for watching!
Realpars you're the best online training that i have ever seen!!!!!!
Thank you, Juan!
Thanks very much for this video.
Our pleasure!
Thank you very much for explanations
Our pleasure!
Explicación magistral.
Si quieren más, que le piquen caña.
Gracias!