No offense but you should do more research, they are not christians, the name of Christ is in the name but its not the same Jesus, their Jesus is literally Satan's brother, they believe god was once a man like us and by following their rules became a god, such disrespectful for the real God in heaven, they preach Jesus died for them but its a lie because you can't be a good "christian" or be saved if you don't follow their rules, for us his death was enough, Jesus' death was meaningless for them (somehow they still think its not), they don't follow the bible either, if the bible happens to contradict the book of mormon they default to their book because is supposed to be the most correct book on earth, (check Galatians 1 6-9). Most of them are really good and nice people, unfortunately they been mislead tto believe their doctrine is true even tough there are a lot of inconsistencies. Sorry if an lds reads this, no disrespect for you personally
I was not expecting the parallels between the Hebrew OT & the BoM, fascinating! Years ago I noticed the BoM index entry for Ishmael noted that he was an Ephraimite . I could NOT find this identifying info anywhere in the BoM nor D&C. So how did the BoM editors know this? Years later I learned (from a BoM institute manual for 1 Nephi 7:2) that the 116 pages revealed that Ishmael was an Ephraimite!
That's awesome, I never realized it doesn't actually say he was from Ephraim in the Book of Mormon, I just assumed it was in there. Thank you for that comment!
Just so awesome! I have watched a few of these and this episode is by far my favorite! Thank you so much Don!! (Coming from an ex-Mormon, but I am sure, not for long!)
I am grateful that the 116 pages are not in the BofM, it is a long enough book as it is & tells the story well enough. We never needed Lehi's information to make the book complete & those pages helped Joseph get good at the translation & also served a valuable lesson to listen to the Lord first & not trust other men, if told not to, no matter how well intentioned. Keniving men would have altered the 116 pages & brought them forth after to create dis-belief. It was for Joseph to learn several lessons from & was known & prepared for him ahead of time. Moses had tablets with the law & when he saw that the people would not live it, he shattered it & went back up & got the lesser law to bring down & that is what we have now. Lessons learned.
Really? What happens to the truths yet to be revealed by the father. Will those be added to the BoM? Consequently, what happens when a new set of plates are revealed with more “history”? Will that be added?
Threesome interview. Can you change the seating? The interviewers one one side facing at a cantor with the one being interviewed on the other side. That way we can see your faces snd the one being interviewed doesn’t have to keep turning his head so much to share your attention. Great subject! Enjoying this very much.
I am not a Mormon (I’m Lutheran in fact), but I’m honestly fascinated by the history of the Mormon church. I’m a bit of a history nerd, and the time of Joseph Smith and others are neat to look into.
How similar is the ability to see what's on the seer stones to how we can't see screen of our iPhones out in the light so its better in a darker environment, which ought to give people the understanding in our own day and times.
Its interesting... I actually came across the book he wrote on Amazon... didnt realize it was a Book of Mormon scholar who wrote it! Definitely need to get it now
There is a blog called the Millennial Star that I used to read. A contributor, Meg Stout, had done research on the animal skin thing. She found that the skin had to be from a water animal like a beaver. Joseph's hat contained beaver skin. This led me to wondering if this water skin involved some kind of energy conduction that enabled Joseph to interpret the plates through the stone without having to actually look at the plates. It may seem far fetched, but it's a thought.
Concerning the use of animal skins, hats, etc. in the process of translation, remember that Joseph was tutored by the Angel Moroni for many hours over the course of the four years while he awaited the time for the beginning of translation. (Joseph Smith History -- 1:54) I'm sure Moroni gave him plenty of instructions on how to best get it translated.
The Book of Mormon is an abridgment of larger records, ( That means like a readers digest version) with occasional commentary by the prophet Mormon, who lived during the time near the end of the Book of Mormon period. The lost 116 pages, Mormon would have abridged just like the rest of the records, and made reference to events in them. Does that clear it up for you?
My personal belief is that Lucy Harris, Martin Harris’s wife burned them ...just my two cents, I have no proof, but it’s crazy how they just disappeared and poor Martin turned his home upside down looking for them. As a woman I understand how some women can be so vindictive as to do something like this. I hope I’m wrong, and that they are safe somewhere and will eventually be found, but maybe not in this lifetime. If Lucy Harris had nothing to do with the disappearance of the 116 pages, I truly beg her forgiveness.
1 Thessalonians 5:21-23 English Standard Version (ESV) 21 but test everything; hold fast what is good. 22 Abstain from every form of evil. 23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. We must do our own investigation of each issue and not be influenced by negative comments or positive I like an impartial investigation and reason if it could come from God.🙂
Some people just don't like making eye contact unless trying to get a point across. If I'm making eye contact with you, you know that I'm being stone cold serious or I've decided you need to know you have my full attention (even though you probably did before).
It sounds to me that after the 116 pages were lost, they couldn’t re-write it and that’s why later on came a different approach from a different Angel. The Ten Commandments were destroyed once and the prophet was able to get them back exactly like the first ones. That even has always bug me, why this prophet could not translate it exactly the same? Sorry, is like a rock in my shoe
The Ten Commandments we’re in the direct control of Moses. The lost pages were not in a direct chain of custody. My guess is God knew what would come of it in the forms of misrepresentation and opposition. We may be missing some of the details, but the rest is still in our hands.
@@brettmajeske3525 See for yourself... Exo 32:16 And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables. Exo 32:19 And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses' anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount. Exo_34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and *I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.* Deu 5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: *and he added no more.* *And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.*
The missing 116 pages are likely written from Lehi's perspective and explain how he was a prophet. Only David kills a giant of a man in honourable combat in a holy war whereas Nephi killed a drunk rich man in the street and then robs his house.
Except they never robbed Laban's house. Nephi and his brother's offered their family's possessions in exchange for the plates. Laban said no and then sent his guards after Nephi and his brothers and ended up stealing Nephi's stuff as they escaped.
@@ConservativeSamizdatKilling a drunk man, then putting on his clothes and pretending to be him while taking his brass plates . Sounds like murder & robbery to me. Even if Laban said no to selling you his brass plates and chased you out who forgot to take your families wealth with you when you ask Laban a 2nd time. Nephi 1 Chapter 4 "18 Therefore I did obey the voice of the Spirit, and took Laban by the hair of the head, and I smote off his head with his own sword. 19 And after I had smitten off his head with his own sword, I took the garments of Laban and put them upon mine own body; yea, even every whit; and I did gird on his armor about my loins. 20 And after I had done this, I went forth unto the treasury of Laban. And as I went forth towards the treasury of Laban, behold, I saw the servant of Laban who had the keys of the treasury. And I commanded him in the voice of Laban, that he should go with me into the treasury. 21 And he supposed me to be his master, Laban, for he beheld the garments and also the sword girded about my loins. 22 And he spake unto me concerning the elders of the Jews, he knowing that his master, Laban, had been out by night among them. 23 And I spake unto him as if it had been Laban. 24 And I also spake unto him that I should carry the engravings, which were upon the plates of brass, to my elder brethren, who were without the walls." Uncomfortable trues are meant to be uncomfortsble. Bibicial figures aren't perfect besides Jesus. Noah got drunk, Moses accidently killed a guard and Peter said he did not know Jesus. It makes them human and in need of a saviour.
You guys lost me with the hat. JSH and other doctrinal scriptures state Joseph Smith used the Urim and thumin to translate, not seer stones put inside a hat.
They were aware of that, but like most of us they were under the impression that the Babylonian invasion took place sometime after they left Jerusalem. Like Don explained in the video however, was that the Babylonians had already invaded once and sacked the temple. They took the ark of the covenant and other things from the Temple, and installed Zedekiah as ruler. Don explained that later, some time after the time of Lehi's family leaving, the Babylonians were gonna come back a second time to finish the job so to speak; To destroy Jerusalem, and take the rest of the inhabitants captive off to Babylon.
The BOM has the same tropes and sub-themes as the OT. Such as an exodus, use of animal skins. AFAICT, that can either be taken as prooof the bom's authenticity or in-authenticity.
The Book of Mormon people are the same people as from the Old Testament, and they had the records of the people up to the time they left Jerusalem, so it only makes sense that they would do similar things.
I'll blow your mind. The stolen 116 pages have not been seen by public eyes since they've been recovered. Yes recovered. A young native american boy heard about the theft of some writings about his ancestors. Sneaks into the house of the guy who purchased the manuscripts both original and altered version, and steals then. He then takes them to the elders of his tribe and to this day they are still in possession of both manuscripts.
No offense no anyone who truly believes, and if you don't have enough faith you shouldn't reads this as it could sway you away. When you see see this from another perspective this is all coincidence and grasping at straws (like the animal skin thing). It resembles the stories from the bible because JS used the bible (we knew he read it so many times) as a base so of course there were gonna be parallels. He never attempted to re write the lost pages because he was afraid if he did it the lost pages could appear and contradict the first attempt and would prove it was a scam, I say this with the knowledge that he was dictating a story he had been preparing and writing in his mind for several years but had no clear form, so small details and barely used names would escape his mind and couldn't possibly remember them to make another copy of the 116 pages, he would contradicted himself and everyone one would've seen what a conman he was. Another thing he should have come across while researching this stuff is that TBOM wasn't written chronologically, after the 116 pages were lost he started dictating mosiah trough the end, after that he started with finished with nephi to before mosiah, so he wrote what was supposed to be the start at the end, when the first books of bom have prophecies that later came true, its because he wrote what happened first and the he wrote the before times with a prophecy of what he already knew were gonna happen
Thanks for that last detail. I think I've heard that before, where Joseph translated Mosiah to the end, and then went back to Nephi. I say that's cool because if that's the case, he would have referenced the Liahona in 1 Nephi before he translated it; because the Liahona was mentioned in Alma 37:38.
@TurtleSoup isn’t that the literal definition of an anachronism? That is generally most definitely not a good thing for a document that is literally the foundation of a religion that is sworn by its members to be HISTORICAL & FACTUALLY accurate. That was the original claim. No moving goal post. Don’t enable those who have glommed on to their power after Joseph Smith’s death by snowballing this BS any further. Shame on them for putting how many generations through such a charade.
When looking at the Book Of Mormon does anyone also consider the book "view of the Hebrews" written about the same time as The Book of Mormon? The Book "View of the Hebrews" was about the history of the Hebrews in America. The author's name was Ethan Smith . . .
Except scholarly research shows that there is very little resemblance between the Book of Mormon and The View of the Hebrews. That claim has been completely debunked.
Did he lose 116 pages? That's okay, it's just the BOM -- just don't give him anything important to keep track of. I think it's under the Seer Stone, next to his Jupiter Talisman and Mars Dagger. They keep all those things in the "Filthy Evil Powers of Darkness" room, don't they?
Well, why didn't Smith rewrite those lost pages since he supposedly had the power of a seer and prophet? Why didn't he re-translate the pages from the Golden Plates (BOM)? Truth is he didn't remember what he previously wrote. And so since, he didn't want to get caught in a lie what did he say: D&C 10 1. He claims to have temporally lost his power, for the Lord punished him for giving up those pages. "And you also lost your gift at the same time, and your mind became darkened." vs 2 So he could not re-translate those pages. Humm 2. O wait, he is then, in the next verses, given back his powers to translate the "rest" of the BOM. vs 3 "Nevertheless, it is now restored unto you again; therefore see that you are faithful and continue on unto the finishing of the remainder of the work of translation as you have begun." 3. He is worried that if he re-translates the words, the lost pages will show up and incriminate him as a false seer. So he blames it on others by saying if he re-translates it and it doesn't match the lost pages then it is becasue someone altered the words. "10 And, behold, Satan hath put it into their hearts to alter the words which you have caused to be written, or which you have translated, which have gone out of your hands. 11 And behold, I say unto you, that because they have altered the words, they read contrary from that which you translated and caused to be written; 12 And, on this wise, the devil has sought to lay a cunning plan, that he may destroy this work; 13 For he hath put into their hearts to do this, that by lying they may say they have caught you in the words which you have pretended to translate. How to fix the problem? Just say the next part, Nephi, will be an abridgement of what was in the lost pages (book of Lehi). 39 Yea, and you remember it was said in those writings that a more particular account was given of these things upon the plates of Nephi. 40 And now, because the account which is engraven upon the plates of Nephi is more particular concerning the things which, in my wisdom, I would bring to the knowledge of the people in this account- 41 Therefore, you shall translate the engravings which are on the plates of Nephi, down even till you come to the reign of king Benjamin, or until you come to that which you have translated, which you have retained; Smith a true seer? Nope.
So if Joseph had the "gold plates" and the 116 pages of the translation were lost, why not just go back to the plates and render another translation which, would have proved Joseph was a prophet. The plates weren't lost, only the translated pages. The reason he couldn't was because he was a false prophet and, the BOM is a book of fiction.
The reason he didn't re-translate was because what ever person (or group of people) who stole the original 116 pages could manipulate it and at a later date use it to prove inconsistencies to the re-translation. Making a case that Joseph is a fraud.
@@rksnote9635 since you or no one else has ever proved this apologist Theroy, it's nothing more than an excuse for Joseph's lie. I suggest you read more on the life of Joseph Smith, other than the protected church version, your eyes of understanding of his true nature might be opened. He was not a pious man as the watered down church history portrays.
@@gm6856 I've been a member since I was 9yo, served a mission, and in other church callings, and like you believed the garbage the church was feeding me until, I started diving deeper into church history and found it isn't as rosy as the church portrays. They teach he, Joseph, TRANSLATED from the GOLD plates, when actually he put a rock in a hat and buried his face in the hat and , the words appeared. That's not translation or how translation works. NONE of the witnesses ever physically saw or held the plates, unless they were covered, so they actually really never saw the plates. Those who held them said they weighed 50 to 60 lbs. Not possible if they were GOLD. According to the dimensions given by Joseph, that amount of gold would have weighed over 300lbs. These are just a few of the things overlooked by the church, there's MUCH more about Joseph that doesn't wash.
@@gm6856 it wasnt until recently that the apologists started claiming that the plates werent made of gold, I'm 59, and when i was a kid growing up in the church, it was absolutely taught that the plates were made of gold, no alloy, no green tint etc. so, you are wrong in your analysis. as for the witness who described a green tint, he only saw a corner of the so called plates as they were being passed through a window, they were covered in cloth. As to the other witnesses, none ever saw the plates unless they were covered, Joseph repeatedly said they would die if they beleld them uncovered. You should really do some better research. Joseph used the same stone in the hat trick to treasure seek and dupe people into believing he could find buried treasure, years before he used the same stone in the hat trick to translate. In fact he was found guilty in Bainbridge of fraud, long before he decided to form a church based on a fraud. See the pattern here? As far as the bible is concerned, do you know the Jesus nor his apostles never wrote any thing, in fact they couldnt even read or write? You see, all the new testament accounts were passed down through oral histories, not written at the time of the events. In fact it wasnt put into written form until 50-70 yrs after the death of Christ, and was written in Greek, not Aramaic, the language of Jesus. So how accurate do you think an oral history is after being passed down from one person to the next for 70 yrs? Are you really naieve enough to believe that its all true, that these miricles arent exagerrations of what really happened. If Jesus was the son of God dont you think it would be the most important thing in the history of mankind that He, Jesus, should be the one too write this gospel down so there would be no question that it came from God?
Seriously guys? 116 pages of the the one true gospel where “stolen” and instead of reproducing verbatim with divine & magical characters being projected from river stones inside a hat? And those characters wouldn’t go away until Joseph understood them correctly? Couldn’t god just hit reset of the Book of Mormon book-on-tape program? It’s just so obvious that if this was divinely inspired then the lost portion could be reproduced easily, rapidly & 100% accurately for such an important book to literary all of humanity. Instead, we get a dog-ate-my-homework excuse and now we are all just bad little girls and boys so we are not worthy of getting back the missing pages. So…here is a pieced together outline of what the entire lost section was. Almost like someone had thought-out this outline once before and then iterated a more detailed version. However, now said person (who is Joseph Smith - for those who are playing along at home) apparently isn’t able to produce the detailed version as before so now the goalpost changes and you get this. Don’t let religious, government & whatever else institutions sell you on this garbage justification of a situation for what it is. Joseph created the narrative (divinely inspired or otherwise) and couldn’t reconstruct it in a convincing manner so he made this excuse up. Sadly people believes it, which may be understandable for his day but not now for all that we know. In the end, this isn’t meant to be mean but more of a recognition that there are SERIOUS issues here and all throughout Mormonism. I grew up Catholic, and even in this sect this issue of people ignoring the problem is disgusting in manner. From putting the accused in Rome into red-hot furnaces alive during medieval times, to the abuse and mass murder of indigenous Canadian school children buried in mass graves and discarded as trash, to finally the Catholic priest that rape children within their very own churches. The Catholic Church knows that AT LEAST 10% of Catholic priests have sexual abused/raped children within their church. This is a known quantity, and they shuffle them around parishes to hide these crimes and weaken the testimony of the abuse so that they will stay silent as no one would believe their claims against a “holy” priest. We all deserve to be treated with respect and our valid questions answered and not just hand-waved away. After all, this is your eternity right? Don’t let some child rapist make you feel like crap about yourself and convince you of some afterlife that enslaves you to suffering and only benefit the institution through your blind obedience. Let’s rise above this together. 🕊️
I don't know about him, but I have attention issues. When I'm talking to more than one person, I will unknowingly focus on one person. It's my brains way of attempting to maintain a modicum of focus, because it's hard trying to form a rational thought, whilst trying to "be polite" and focusing on both people. Ironically enough, when I'm talking to just one person, it's really hard to maintain eye contact with them. It's easier (for my brain) if I look at my hands, or my finger nails, or a wall... lol Don't be so quick to judge. You never know a person's journey or internal struggle.
Maybe he is a bit on the autistic spectrum and feels more comfortable with eye contact with the guy than with the woman. I think you are reading way too much into that interaction. I don’t know if my assumption is true, but I would not assume that he was trying to be rude to her.
I noticed that too, but I don't think it's rude, just how some people talk. I usually end up focusing on the person I'm more comfortable with whether it's the one who is responding more or I know better or maybe the female because I'm female, but other times it's more comfortable to not look at anyone Im talking to, if there is a child I am more comfortable looking at what they're doing (or a window or wall) than some adult's face. But it doesn't mean I'm not listening and responding to them. I'm probably listening and thinking better when I'm not focusing on trying to keep eye contact and feeling weird and uncomfortable. Especially if you're sitting between two people, having to keep swiveling is distracting. I think guests should be on one side rather than in the middle.
I'm from a different denomination of Christianity but I love how accessible your team makes LDS. Thank you!
Thanks for actually acknowledging us as christians rather than attacking us because we are different.
No offense but you should do more research, they are not christians, the name of Christ is in the name but its not the same Jesus, their Jesus is literally Satan's brother, they believe god was once a man like us and by following their rules became a god, such disrespectful for the real God in heaven, they preach Jesus died for them but its a lie because you can't be a good "christian" or be saved if you don't follow their rules, for us his death was enough, Jesus' death was meaningless for them (somehow they still think its not), they don't follow the bible either, if the bible happens to contradict the book of mormon they default to their book because is supposed to be the most correct book on earth, (check Galatians 1 6-9).
Most of them are really good and nice people, unfortunately they been mislead tto believe their doctrine is true even tough there are a lot of inconsistencies.
Sorry if an lds reads this, no disrespect for you personally
@@Valeriamtzp ok mother Mary
@@ztr8up huh?
@@Valeriamtzp huh?
am I the only one who thinks Don looks like an older version of Justin?! This episode is SO awesome btw, can't wait for part 2!!
Don totally looks like an older Justin! 😂
This was so interesting, loved this episode. I'm glad the Lord is the same always and forever.
I was not expecting the parallels between the Hebrew OT & the BoM, fascinating! Years ago I noticed the BoM index entry for Ishmael noted that he was an Ephraimite . I could NOT find this identifying info anywhere in the BoM nor D&C. So how did the BoM editors know this? Years later I learned (from a BoM institute manual for 1 Nephi 7:2) that the 116 pages revealed that Ishmael was an Ephraimite!
That's awesome, I never realized it doesn't actually say he was from Ephraim in the Book of Mormon, I just assumed it was in there. Thank you for that comment!
I enjoyed this episode so much.
Just so awesome! I have watched a few of these and this episode is by far my favorite! Thank you so much Don!! (Coming from an ex-Mormon, but I am sure, not for long!)
Beautiful Hermano, we need you back, there is work to be done and people to love:)
Come home, we need you.
Love that
Bienvenido para siempre❤
Come home. We love you, we miss you, we need you.
I am grateful that the 116 pages are not in the BofM, it is a long enough book as it is & tells the story well enough. We never needed Lehi's information to make the book complete & those pages helped Joseph get good at the translation & also served a valuable lesson to listen to the Lord first & not trust other men, if told not to, no matter how well intentioned. Keniving men would have altered the 116 pages & brought them forth after to create dis-belief. It was for Joseph to learn several lessons from & was known & prepared for him ahead of time. Moses had tablets with the law & when he saw that the people would not live it, he shattered it & went back up & got the lesser law to bring down & that is what we have now. Lessons learned.
Well said!
Really? What happens to the truths yet to be revealed by the father. Will those be added to the BoM? Consequently, what happens when a new set of plates are revealed with more “history”? Will that be added?
This guy is good to listen to. Needs a podcast or something
dude this was amazing
Holy cow! that was an incredible episode. I have to rewatch this a few times over. That was amazing.
I just ordered this book today on Amazon.
I can't believe I watched this 2 years ago
@@PapaKryptosshow was the Book? Is it worth reading?
Definately one of my favorite episodes. And I watched almost all of them!
Dang, I need to get my hands on Bradley's book!
Or just wait until this April when President Nelson gives us the rest of the golden plates . . .
Bwahaha
That's what I have been thinking!
chrisberockin The rest of the golden plates will require you to tithe 25%.
That would be so awesome!
Hong Kong Eats and Adventures ahh so an in-app purchase I see
Love the insights in this episode. Thanks for posting.
Oh boy am I ready to hear this.
Magari M I did. It's very good. There's also one with lds perspectives ldsperspectives.com/2018/01/31/lost-116-pages-book-mormon/
Can't wait for the part 2! Hahaha
Threesome interview. Can you change the seating? The interviewers one one side facing at a cantor with the one being interviewed on the other side. That way we can see your faces snd the one being interviewed doesn’t have to keep turning his head so much to share your attention. Great subject! Enjoying this very much.
Speaking of relics... any else ever wonder if the Liahona is like a royal orb / globus cruciger that you always see kings and queens hold?
Guys thank you for this! My mind was blown!
I am not a Mormon (I’m Lutheran in fact), but I’m honestly fascinated by the history of the Mormon church. I’m a bit of a history nerd, and the time of Joseph Smith and others are neat to look into.
Don is an inspired genius.
How similar is the ability to see what's on the seer stones to how we can't see screen of our iPhones out in the light so its better in a darker environment, which ought to give people the understanding in our own day and times.
Truth be told I think our phones are a corrupt version of a Seer Stone
@@26feironworks79 Bro I have thought this so many times lol
Love hearing Don's insights and research.
Wow,that guy is impressive
Its interesting... I actually came across the book he wrote on Amazon... didnt realize it was a Book of Mormon scholar who wrote it! Definitely need to get it now
There is a blog called the Millennial Star that I used to read. A contributor, Meg Stout, had done research on the animal skin thing. She found that the skin had to be from a water animal like a beaver. Joseph's hat contained beaver skin. This led me to wondering if this water skin involved some kind of energy conduction that enabled Joseph to interpret the plates through the stone without having to actually look at the plates. It may seem far fetched, but it's a thought.
Oh gawd.......
Concerning the use of animal skins, hats, etc. in the process of translation, remember that Joseph was tutored by the Angel Moroni for many hours over the course of the four years while he awaited the time for the beginning of translation. (Joseph Smith History -- 1:54) I'm sure Moroni gave him plenty of instructions on how to best get it translated.
@@allisonalexander2269 It's a long shot.
The covering of animal skin idea, if you think about it, is also a parallel of our spirits being "housed in skin" as well. Our bodies are a temple.
Great insight!
I thought the first 116 pages was the book of Lehi and if that is the book of lehi didn’t he die before mosiah was around
The Book of Mormon is an abridgment of larger records, ( That means like a readers digest version) with occasional commentary by the prophet Mormon, who lived during the time near the end of the Book of Mormon period. The lost 116 pages, Mormon would have abridged just like the rest of the records, and made reference to events in them. Does that clear it up for you?
Is that Tom Holland?
It is I Hom Tolland
Awesome!! Impressive knowledge and ability to interpret the symbolism. Thanks Don!
Im gonna get his book
Love this video❤️
does the church know or have ideas if the lost pages still exists
My personal belief is that Lucy Harris, Martin Harris’s wife burned them ...just my two cents, I have no proof, but it’s crazy how they just disappeared and poor Martin turned his home upside down looking for them.
As a woman I understand how some women can be so vindictive as to do something like this.
I hope I’m wrong, and that they are safe somewhere and will eventually be found, but maybe not in this lifetime.
If Lucy Harris had nothing to do with the disappearance of the 116 pages, I truly beg her forgiveness.
well, the 116 had alotta bible references. goes to show if youre commanded rely not on your own wisdom but heed the commandment
Wow! I only had anti-Mormon suggestions in my TH-cam feed now I found about five or six pro Mormon channels. I love it :-)
Glad you’re here!
Where is the conversion story of this man?
Having a hat made of animal skins would not have been that hard for Joseph to have gotten -- a leather hat would be cowhide.
Might this be a connection to the animal skins of Adam and Eve who were clothed with light before the fall?
Adam and Eve were naked before the Fall
Maybe
I'm skeptical.
Because it's a lie
1 Thessalonians 5:21-23 English Standard Version (ESV)
21 but test everything; hold fast what is good. 22 Abstain from every form of evil.
23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. We must do our own investigation of each issue and not be influenced by negative comments or positive I like an impartial investigation and reason if it could come from God.🙂
Why did God have Jospeh translate 116 pages and then have them be stolen?
He refuses to make eye contact with the pretty lady. Many guys have this fear of the pretty girls :)
Some people just don't like making eye contact unless trying to get a point across. If I'm making eye contact with you, you know that I'm being stone cold serious or I've decided you need to know you have my full attention (even though you probably did before).
Oh how about reading Rough Stone Rolling and getting a bit of a different perspective on the motivations for not re-"translating" this section...
Brad Jones solid idea
Who, the guest? If you look into his story I think you'll find he knows about that perspective
part two.....
It sounds to me that after the 116 pages were lost, they couldn’t re-write it and that’s why later on came a different approach from a different Angel. The Ten Commandments were destroyed once and the prophet was able to get them back exactly like the first ones. That even has always bug me, why this prophet could not translate it exactly the same? Sorry, is like a rock in my shoe
The Ten Commandments we’re in the direct control of Moses. The lost pages were not in a direct chain of custody. My guess is God knew what would come of it in the forms of misrepresentation and opposition. We may be missing some of the details, but the rest is still in our hands.
@@heartfacingupward That's okay, but next time, don't give me anything really important to keep track of.
Who says that the first tablets obtained by Moses had the same commandments as the second tablets? That is never explicitly stated in the Bible.
@@brettmajeske3525 See for yourself...
Exo 32:16 And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables.
Exo 32:19 And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses' anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount.
Exo_34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and *I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.*
Deu 5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: *and he added no more.* *And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.*
Interesting
Lost pages? There are no pages at all! How can there be lost pages?
Translated manuscript pages.
The lost 116 pages are available on Amazon so is the unsealed portion.
I'm sorry but those aren't the real sealed portion or 116 pages.
The missing 116 pages are likely written from Lehi's perspective and explain how he was a prophet. Only David kills a giant of a man in honourable combat in a holy war whereas Nephi killed a drunk rich man in the street and then robs his house.
Except they never robbed Laban's house. Nephi and his brother's offered their family's possessions in exchange for the plates. Laban said no and then sent his guards after Nephi and his brothers and ended up stealing Nephi's stuff as they escaped.
@@ConservativeSamizdatKilling a drunk man, then putting on his clothes and pretending to be him while taking his brass plates . Sounds like murder & robbery to me. Even if Laban said no to selling you his brass plates and chased you out who forgot to take your families wealth with you when you ask Laban a 2nd time. Nephi 1 Chapter 4
"18 Therefore I did obey the voice of the Spirit, and took Laban by the hair of the head, and I smote off his head with his own sword.
19 And after I had smitten off his head with his own sword, I took the garments of Laban and put them upon mine own body; yea, even every whit; and I did gird on his armor about my loins.
20 And after I had done this, I went forth unto the treasury of Laban. And as I went forth towards the treasury of Laban, behold, I saw the servant of Laban who had the keys of the treasury. And I commanded him in the voice of Laban, that he should go with me into the treasury.
21 And he supposed me to be his master, Laban, for he beheld the garments and also the sword girded about my loins.
22 And he spake unto me concerning the elders of the Jews, he knowing that his master, Laban, had been out by night among them.
23 And I spake unto him as if it had been Laban.
24 And I also spake unto him that I should carry the engravings, which were upon the plates of brass, to my elder brethren, who were without the walls."
Uncomfortable trues are meant to be uncomfortsble. Bibicial figures aren't perfect besides Jesus. Noah got drunk, Moses accidently killed a guard and Peter said he did not know Jesus. It makes them human and in need of a saviour.
You guys lost me with the hat. JSH and other doctrinal scriptures state Joseph Smith used the Urim and thumin to translate, not seer stones put inside a hat.
He used both.
The term Urim and Thumin was used both for the spectacles and the seer stones.
A testimony should be in Christ only, which leads to conversation. This stuff just makes some sense of restoration oddities
Crazy
Animal skin covering goes back to the garden...
i'm surprised they weren't aware the BOM is built around the Babylonian invasion. must not have read the old testament
They were aware of that, but like most of us they were under the impression that the Babylonian invasion took place sometime after they left Jerusalem. Like Don explained in the video however, was that the Babylonians had already invaded once and sacked the temple. They took the ark of the covenant and other things from the Temple, and installed Zedekiah as ruler. Don explained that later, some time after the time of Lehi's family leaving, the Babylonians were gonna come back a second time to finish the job so to speak; To destroy Jerusalem, and take the rest of the inhabitants captive off to Babylon.
I love Don. But the person on the left and the right are a bit over-enthusiastic. maybe it's an american thing. but it is kind of annoying.^^
It’s a specific evangelical religious thing.
I think it's just their personalities and feeding off of the exchange, not to be applied to the whole of americans
The BOM has the same tropes and sub-themes as the OT. Such as an exodus, use of animal skins. AFAICT, that can either be taken as prooof the bom's authenticity or in-authenticity.
The Book of Mormon people are the same people as from the Old Testament, and they had the records of the people up to the time they left Jerusalem, so it only makes sense that they would do similar things.
I'll blow your mind. The stolen 116 pages have not been seen by public eyes since they've been recovered. Yes recovered. A young native american boy heard about the theft of some writings about his ancestors. Sneaks into the house of the guy who purchased the manuscripts both original and altered version, and steals then. He then takes them to the elders of his tribe and to this day they are still in possession of both manuscripts.
Link?
No offense no anyone who truly believes, and if you don't have enough faith you shouldn't reads this as it could sway you away.
When you see see this from another perspective this is all coincidence and grasping at straws (like the animal skin thing). It resembles the stories from the bible because JS used the bible (we knew he read it so many times) as a base so of course there were gonna be parallels.
He never attempted to re write the lost pages because he was afraid if he did it the lost pages could appear and contradict the first attempt and would prove it was a scam, I say this with the knowledge that he was dictating a story he had been preparing and writing in his mind for several years but had no clear form, so small details and barely used names would escape his mind and couldn't possibly remember them to make another copy of the 116 pages, he would contradicted himself and everyone one would've seen what a conman he was.
Another thing he should have come across while researching this stuff is that TBOM wasn't written chronologically, after the 116 pages were lost he started dictating mosiah trough the end, after that he started with finished with nephi to before mosiah, so he wrote what was supposed to be the start at the end, when the first books of bom have prophecies that later came true, its because he wrote what happened first and the he wrote the before times with a prophecy of what he already knew were gonna happen
Thanks for that last detail. I think I've heard that before, where Joseph translated Mosiah to the end, and then went back to Nephi.
I say that's cool because if that's the case, he would have referenced the Liahona in 1 Nephi before he translated it; because the Liahona was mentioned in Alma 37:38.
@TurtleSoup isn’t that the literal definition of an anachronism? That is generally most definitely not a good thing for a document that is literally the foundation of a religion that is sworn by its members to be HISTORICAL & FACTUALLY accurate. That was the original claim. No moving goal post. Don’t enable those who have glommed on to their power after Joseph Smith’s death by snowballing this BS any further. Shame on them for putting how many generations through such a charade.
@@Nick_BRZ I no way could it be considered an anachronism, I do not think you understand what that word means.
When looking at the Book Of Mormon does anyone also consider the book "view of the Hebrews" written about the same time as The Book of Mormon? The Book "View of the Hebrews" was about the history of the Hebrews in America. The author's name was Ethan Smith . . .
Except scholarly research shows that there is very little resemblance between the Book of Mormon and The View of the Hebrews. That claim has been completely debunked.
What is...
He doesn't even acknowledge the lady, just stares at and talks to the dude. So rude.
I think everyone did a good job.
10:52
12:05
I don't think that relates to anything. The guy himself is a shy type by nature.
He does acknowledge her
Righ'
Did he lose 116 pages? That's okay, it's just the BOM -- just don't give him anything important to keep track of. I think it's under the Seer Stone, next to his Jupiter Talisman and Mars Dagger. They keep all those things in the "Filthy Evil Powers of Darkness" room, don't they?
Well, why didn't Smith rewrite those lost pages since he supposedly had the power of a seer and prophet? Why didn't he re-translate the pages from the Golden Plates (BOM)?
Truth is he didn't remember what he previously wrote. And so since, he didn't want to get caught in a lie what did he say:
D&C 10
1. He claims to have temporally lost his power, for the Lord punished him for giving up those pages. "And you also lost your gift at the same time, and your mind became darkened." vs 2 So he could not re-translate those pages. Humm
2. O wait, he is then, in the next verses, given back his powers to translate the "rest" of the BOM.
vs 3 "Nevertheless, it is now restored unto you again; therefore see that you are faithful and continue on unto the finishing of the remainder of the work of translation as you have begun."
3. He is worried that if he re-translates the words, the lost pages will show up and incriminate him as a false seer. So he blames it on others by saying if he re-translates it and it doesn't match the lost pages then it is becasue someone altered the words.
"10 And, behold, Satan hath put it into their hearts to alter the words which you have caused to be written, or which you have translated, which have gone out of your hands.
11 And behold, I say unto you, that because they have altered the words, they read contrary from that which you translated and caused to be written;
12 And, on this wise, the devil has sought to lay a cunning plan, that he may destroy this work;
13 For he hath put into their hearts to do this, that by lying they may say they have caught you in the words which you have pretended to translate.
How to fix the problem? Just say the next part, Nephi, will be an abridgement of what was in the lost pages (book of Lehi).
39 Yea, and you remember it was said in those writings that a more particular account was given of these things upon the plates of Nephi.
40 And now, because the account which is engraven upon the plates of Nephi is more particular concerning the things which, in my wisdom, I would bring to the knowledge of the people in this account-
41 Therefore, you shall translate the engravings which are on the plates of Nephi, down even till you come to the reign of king Benjamin, or until you come to that which you have translated, which you have retained;
Smith a true seer? Nope.
So if Joseph had the "gold plates" and the 116 pages of the translation were lost, why not just go back to the plates and render another translation which, would have proved Joseph was a prophet. The plates weren't lost, only the translated pages. The reason he couldn't was because he was a false prophet and, the BOM is a book of fiction.
The reason he didn't re-translate was because what ever person (or group of people) who stole the original 116 pages could manipulate it and at a later date use it to prove inconsistencies to the re-translation. Making a case that Joseph is a fraud.
rks note That is the perfect excuse. Just like the South Park Joseph Smith’s excuse to Martin Harris
@@rksnote9635 since you or no one else has ever proved this apologist Theroy, it's nothing more than an excuse for Joseph's lie. I suggest you read more on the life of Joseph Smith, other than the protected church version, your eyes of understanding of his true nature might be opened. He was not a pious man as the watered down church history portrays.
@@gm6856 I've been a member since I was 9yo, served a mission, and in other church callings, and like you believed the garbage the church was feeding me until, I started diving deeper into church history and found it isn't as rosy as the church portrays. They teach he, Joseph, TRANSLATED from the GOLD plates, when actually he put a rock in a hat and buried his face in the hat and , the words appeared. That's not translation or how translation works. NONE of the witnesses ever physically saw or held the plates, unless they were covered, so they actually really never saw the plates. Those who held them said they weighed 50 to 60 lbs. Not possible if they were GOLD. According to the dimensions given by Joseph, that amount of gold would have weighed over 300lbs. These are just a few of the things overlooked by the church, there's MUCH more about Joseph that doesn't wash.
@@gm6856 it wasnt until recently that the apologists started claiming that the plates werent made of gold, I'm 59, and when i was a kid growing up in the church, it was absolutely taught that the plates were made of gold, no alloy, no green tint etc. so, you are wrong in your analysis. as for the witness who described a green tint, he only saw a corner of the so called plates as they were being passed through a window, they were covered in cloth. As to the other witnesses, none ever saw the plates unless they were covered, Joseph repeatedly said they would die if they beleld them uncovered. You should really do some better research. Joseph used the same stone in the hat trick to treasure seek and dupe people into believing he could find buried treasure, years before he used the same stone in the hat trick to translate. In fact he was found guilty in Bainbridge of fraud, long before he decided to form a church based on a fraud. See the pattern here? As far as the bible is concerned, do you know the Jesus nor his apostles never wrote any thing, in fact they couldnt even read or write? You see, all the new testament accounts were passed down through oral histories, not written at the time of the events. In fact it wasnt put into written form until 50-70 yrs after the death of Christ, and was written in Greek, not Aramaic, the language of Jesus. So how accurate do you think an oral history is after being passed down from one person to the next for 70 yrs? Are you really naieve enough to believe that its all true, that these miricles arent exagerrations of what really happened. If Jesus was the son of God dont you think it would be the most important thing in the history of mankind that He, Jesus, should be the one too write this gospel down so there would be no question that it came from God?
Logic and science have no place here
Seriously guys? 116 pages of the the one true gospel where “stolen” and instead of reproducing verbatim with divine & magical characters being projected from river stones inside a hat? And those characters wouldn’t go away until Joseph understood them correctly? Couldn’t god just hit reset of the Book of Mormon book-on-tape program?
It’s just so obvious that if this was divinely inspired then the lost portion could be reproduced easily, rapidly & 100% accurately for such an important book to literary all of humanity.
Instead, we get a dog-ate-my-homework excuse and now we are all just bad little girls and boys so we are not worthy of getting back the missing pages. So…here is a pieced together outline of what the entire lost section was. Almost like someone had thought-out this outline once before and then iterated a more detailed version. However, now said person (who is Joseph Smith - for those who are playing along at home) apparently isn’t able to produce the detailed version as before so now the goalpost changes and you get this.
Don’t let religious, government & whatever else institutions sell you on this garbage justification of a situation for what it is. Joseph created the narrative (divinely inspired or otherwise) and couldn’t reconstruct it in a convincing manner so he made this excuse up. Sadly people believes it, which may be understandable for his day but not now for all that we know.
In the end, this isn’t meant to be mean but more of a recognition that there are SERIOUS issues here and all throughout Mormonism. I grew up Catholic, and even in this sect this issue of people ignoring the problem is disgusting in manner. From putting the accused in Rome into red-hot furnaces alive during medieval times, to the abuse and mass murder of indigenous Canadian school children buried in mass graves and discarded as trash, to finally the Catholic priest that rape children within their very own churches. The Catholic Church knows that AT LEAST 10% of Catholic priests have sexual abused/raped children within their church. This is a known quantity, and they shuffle them around parishes to hide these crimes and weaken the testimony of the abuse so that they will stay silent as no one would believe their claims against a “holy” priest.
We all deserve to be treated with respect and our valid questions answered and not just hand-waved away. After all, this is your eternity right? Don’t let some child rapist make you feel like crap about yourself and convince you of some afterlife that enslaves you to suffering and only benefit the institution through your blind obedience. Let’s rise above this together. 🕊️
How convenient
LOL -- Is this for real?
when you converse with two people, you look at them alternately. he only looks at the guy most of the time. that's actually rude
I don't know about him, but I have attention issues. When I'm talking to more than one person, I will unknowingly focus on one person. It's my brains way of attempting to maintain a modicum of focus, because it's hard trying to form a rational thought, whilst trying to "be polite" and focusing on both people.
Ironically enough, when I'm talking to just one person, it's really hard to maintain eye contact with them.
It's easier (for my brain) if I look at my hands, or my finger nails, or a wall... lol
Don't be so quick to judge.
You never know a person's journey or internal struggle.
thats all you got from this video?
on second thought I see what you mean haha it is a little odd
Maybe he is a bit on the autistic spectrum and feels more comfortable with eye contact with the guy than with the woman. I think you are reading way too much into that interaction. I don’t know if my assumption is true, but I would not assume that he was trying to be rude to her.
I noticed that too, but I don't think it's rude, just how some people talk. I usually end up focusing on the person I'm more comfortable with whether it's the one who is responding more or I know better or maybe the female because I'm female, but other times it's more comfortable to not look at anyone Im talking to, if there is a child I am more comfortable looking at what they're doing (or a window or wall) than some adult's face. But it doesn't mean I'm not listening and responding to them. I'm probably listening and thinking better when I'm not focusing on trying to keep eye contact and feeling weird and uncomfortable. Especially if you're sitting between two people, having to keep swiveling is distracting. I think guests should be on one side rather than in the middle.
There is a better explanation for this on South Park