The race for semiconductor supremacy | FT Film
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 เม.ย. 2024
- The US is bidding to regain a leading role in advanced chip manufacturing, to de-risk critical supply chains, and to combat China's rise as a technological superpower.
#semiconductors #microchips #Intel
00:00 - The race for semiconductor supremacy
02:28 - Chips Act
04:32 - Arizona
06:33 - Tomorrow’s workforce
08:59 - Intel
10:29 - Dawn of the silicon age
12:57 - De-risking
14:10 - The rise of TSMC
16:14 - The flashpoint
19:11 - China
21:40 - The consultant
25:07 - Artificial intelligence
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Intel said "Without the Chinese market, there is no point of building the chip factory expansion"
😂. Yup. Pat is just a politician. Speaking both sides to get his money
Just justifying the CCP regime, no decouple
Both China and US buy from Taiwan. World peace.
Can we get a source on this quote and when it was timed? Things have changed a lot the funding and change in tune around regulations makes a massive difference
@@dennisp8520 Simple logic, with the US sanctions on chip export to China which is 51% of US chip export market share. So without Chinese market, who are you going to sell the chips to? Qualcomm just announced massive layoff, TSMC announced the Arizona chip factory construction delay. Micron just disclosure their 40% revenue decline YOY. And now Huawei just launched their own 5nm chip smart phone... US is so f****k'd. What else can US trade with China other than corn or some beef?
Intel lost coz it kept employing MBAs and finance to run the company, it's doing better now that engineers are back at the helm.
It's engineers who understand the market that do it best, not bean counters who worry more about short-term profits over long-term sustainable growth.
Did I read that many Governors are trying to please their voters by lowering the requirement of passing basic Mathematics in their high school classes and with such policy they think they want to lead the world in the 21st Century? They certainly excel in using Woke-ism to publicize their FREEDOM!
their entire economy runs on short term profit seeking big corps. some people win big while the underlying productive output slowly wanes. it slowly destroys the real economy
The same problem as Boeing..
Bean counters replacing Engineers..
@@peterclarke3020 Yeah, that's where innovation dies, MBA and finance grads are nothing but hasslers for short term profit taking.
Intel did the same mistake as Blizzard. Maximizing profit by cuts in development and by increasing investment in marketing instead. That reduces quality of products in a few years as we saw with both companies. Then all of a sudden they lose market shares.
You can't cut the workforce in IP-intense businesses such as software development and hardware manufacturing if you want to maintain a dominant position.
The FT saying that Intel lost its edge in the last 5-8 years is a joke. They missed every single structural shift in the industry in the last 20 years, beginning with the change into mobile devices. It’s perfectly defensible for the US to protect its security with support to onshore production of chips but to see Intel’s CEO, who still has not delivered on any of his promises to shareholders, posing as the great strategist while he milks public money is a bit rich (he pulls the same act in Europe)! It suffices to look at the performance of Intel’s stock and compare it to its peers.
yep, i was waiting for the part saying "Intel fucked-up transitioning to 10nm and gave the lead for years to come to TSMC...", but it never came lol
I fucked up and can’t compete, please help me to beat down the competition!
The RABBIT 🐇& the TURTLE 🐢 fable in reality.
❤
Indeed. Intel, just another corporate grift. Not to mention Ronnie Raygun deregulating every aspect of business in the US and watching almost all the manufacturing go to SE Asia. So, what the hell did you expect USA?
How USA is so comfortable monopolising heavy industries,but quickly criticise and scared when other countries monopolies such industries.
Ip theft, chyna steals so much
The USA isn’t monopolistic of heavy industries at all? There just increasing capacity to meet their own market needs.
@@dennisp8520 The US invades, sanctions, topples governments using CIA in countries all over the world to maintain it's corporations' monopolies of heavy industries.
This seems to bother nobody
If the monopolies are from democratic countries, US won’t be as concerned. Xi’s CCP ideology is not compatible with the west. There is no way China can get the top technology from west unless China becomes democratic like Taiwan. Semiconductor industry requires multi-country collaboration effort. No one country can pull this thru by itself.
The factory is just a building with expensive equipment. The essential components are those highly skilled chip engineers that is willing to work long hours in the lab and on call 24/7. I am not sure that there are enough such engineers in the US. TSMC will have bring tens of thousands of them from Taiwan. US domestic students are not interested in hardware engineering. We will see how the US and Arizona attract and accommodate these foreigners.
Well said ! TSMC is facing exactly the issue you mentioned at this moment in the US
On the other hand, Japanese fab is progressing according to their plan because Japanese engineers are hard working
So far it's not looking good. The union workers already protested and rejected the workers from Taiwan. They don't want more people from Taiwan to "take their jobs".
This.
Why don't you speak louder that the American want to root out of your semiconductor industry? 😅
"US domestic students are not interested in hardware engineering". That is true, but I think they are not aware of it and have been focused on Computer science. This is a tragedy. I think Bidens effort in US manufacturing presence encouraged many US colleges to rethink about their curriculum and provide hardware engineering majors. They are hard as hell to understand, usually only Asian people are smart as hell to understand them easily. Hardware engineering is basically three majors into one major.
The immigration policy needs a complete revamp. We educate foreigners in our top universities and kick them out without much options to remain in our country. What an idiotic thing to do. Anyone who wishes to work hard and contribute to our country should be given the opportunities to do so.
Education is a service trade of the u.s. just like exports. It would be really problematic if U.S. suck all the engineering talent of the world. Those countries would start to think it might not be a good deal for them to work with the u.s.
short-termism..and now you don't even have enuf engineers for the foundries
That's a short term solution, but America is in general too stupid to build advanced chips. They will need to improve their entire education system to compete with East Asians in the STEM fields...
Floks, TSMC tried to set a new site in US, and what happened? US workers are protesting on the management and the whole process is slowing down. The fact is that having chips made in the US is much more expensive in Taiwan. You cannot find skilled TSMC alike workers in other place with the same cost out of Taiwan. Face it. Not to mention the management of Intel is a disaster!
Taiwan and Japan don't have Union to slow down the project.TSMC is going to build a 2nd fab in Japan. And US TSMC fab is still not sure when it is going to be completed.
its a problem that can be resolved as well if they really want to proceed with their plans. they could automate more processes to reduce the human labor cost, or they could produce thrice as much.
@@cruucruu5584But this approach will be protested
@@cruucruu5584 It is not true. TSMC as great company as it is has probably automated and optimized everything it can. It is facing the same engineer shortage issue back home in Taiwan. Americans generally are not willing to work long hours and get less pays if they were to work in finance or software companies. I am just not optimistic about the semiconductor fab development in the US.
with enough money that problem is easily solved
The US and Europe should have started reindustriasing their semiconductor industry a long time ago
Manufacturing is hard work, Americans and Europeans don’t want to work hard anymore, they prefer working as a lawyer and on the wall street where you can get instant money selling lies.
And now its to late…
The high-end semiconductor industry is pretty much entirely reliant on the European firm ASML, their lithography machines are required by TSMC for their 7nm process.
@@Steven-vo4eebut ASML is heavily reliant on American core technologies. That's why the US can order them not to supply EUV machines to China even though this is not good for ASML in the long run. Imagine the Dutch or any European government ordering an American company around.
@@adon8672 The EU does “order around” US companies, Microsoft (browser bundling) and Apple (lightning connector to USB-C) immediately spring to mind.
Fascinated by AMD s effort currently. I think Lisa Su s joining into AMD was quite transformative
They are coming out with some nice products.
The number of highly cited scientific papers (Japan Education Ministry)
2008 to 2010 US (36,910) vs. China (9,011), but after 10 years
2018 to 2010 US ( 36,680) vs China (46,350)
While China increased more than 5 times, the US remained the same.
This is not a good indicator of actual scientific progress. Its more of citation farming combined with blatant data forgery and data manipulation then actual hard proof science we are used to in the West. It really does not matter the amount of citations or the number of published scientific journals, but more important is what actually gets manufactured and innovated because of them and thankfully, despite China's absolutely horrific Intellectual property theft and other disingenuous actions, not much is getting innovated in China.
This is protectionism 101. The US demands free market policy from developing nations but then does this.
Free market policy is different to CCP style tech theft and protectionism. Educate yourself
This is just the world switching from unipolar back to bipolar. Protectionism only happens between the two camps, while free market is demanded between countries of the same camp.
Intellectual property theft must have been like leaving a chocolate cake out in a room full of 5 year olds. Who will steal this and once they do the enemy is revealed and is now 100% trackable.The internet has two functions tied together like railroad tracks. One is military and the other is social, but the two are inextricably connected.
They have done well with their demands for other countries to open up for decades, why change now?
@@yoyolim538 because the US increasingly can't compete
America's problem is their politicians and journalists are too lazy to do basic homework on how the industry works, case in point:
- Up to a month ago American officials thought chip packaging is the cardboard box its shipped in.
- Nobody seem to notice TSMC Arizona's capacity is less than 4% of their overall capacity, making it useless if the plan is to de-risk against Chinese sanctions.
- They still don't understand electronic devices needs more than just the CPU, majority of chips in any device are mature nodes and the device won't work if you miss a single one.
- It seems nobody in industry bothered telling American officials the few US made chips will all need to be sent to China to turn into useful devices.
- They can't seem to wrap their minds around the idea that technology is created, not a finite physical asset to be supplied or obtained, and China's development of 7nm, 5nm, 3nm chips along with DUV and EUV is inevitable regardless what America does.
- Finally they seem content with the fact that the US itself lack the knowhow to build
As for their high paying jobs. Well TSMC are very unhappy with Americans and say they are lazy workers. Production costs in the US are 10x Taiwan. TSMC have been badly burnt.
@@Andrew-rc3vh TSMC has no interest in building Arizona, Americans are making it no secret that the whole point of Arizona is so they won't need Taiwan, even openly talking about blowing up TSMC Taiwan after Arizona is done. They're forcing TSMC to dig their own grave, of course TSMC isn't eager.
@@Andrew-rc3vh You need put your comment on the top, or put exact comment here on separate one, by itself.
From TSMC point of view, it sound stupid to make AZ project success, if the project succeeded the TSMS leverage to US will be lost
@vlhc4642, the American politicians and journalists know nothing about technologies....all they want to bash other countries success, in this current situation, it is China. Don't they ever know that China has more than 1.4 billion people ? There are no shortage of talented people, it is matter of time, the Chinese will catch up what the Western world had created, they will create their own and even better than the Western World.
I work as a supplier for Intel, visiting the Ronler Acres campus in Hillsboro weekly. The capital investments they are making into R&D and fab is incredible.
This... x times this; most people in these videos dont get the amount of investing Intel is actually doing to catch on; I do believe Intel will accomplish wonders in 2025 despite the haters
China must do what they think is right, as it is clear that the USA is doing exactly that.
I don't think US is doing the right thing. Without breaking the Wall Streat, US can never get the technology back. Let's wait and see whether US or the capitalism would win in the end.
There is never a "right" thing to do. It's just acting according to their interests, and ensure that interests between friends align.
True
Do you mean forced transfer of technology ?
@@andyyang5234Your statement is quite honorable..if it can be realized...however..in today's world...rarely will self interest and friend's interest ever align..if ever...one is always trying to be just a little better than the other..no one is content with being equals...
Arizona has a shortage of water a lot of which is needed for chip manufacturing. A better choice would be the Great lakes, ie the rust belt. But these companies, despite being willing to accept government money, don't like paying taxes....
Intel is investing in Columbus, Ohio for its latest plant.
Cumulatively, they seem to plan of $100 billion worth of investments over the next few years.
You are damn right they are NEVER willing to pay any taxes whatsoever. #taxhavens
They will likely have to spend a fortune on ‘water taxes’ instead !
There used to be much semiconductor manufacturing in the San Fransisco Bay area. In fact, that's where it started. I guess it's too expensive to manufacture them there now and that's why they are doing it overseas,
intel paid 4.3b in taxes in 2021 and 4.6b in taxes in 2020. Nobody "likes" paying taxes. But they do it anyway.
The person behind 7nm chip in China is the previous R&D director from TSMC. How are u going to sanction on talent?
But the cost for China’s 7 nm is extremely costly
Time will tell
@@jennychuang808 then wait and see, expert😁😁
By the way, the TSMC Arizona fab is now 2 years behind schedule. /nfc
They were counting their eggs , before they hatched
this is really sick to watch them bragging about using tax payer dollars to promote monopolies
The info is outdated. China had already reduced chips import by 35% and SMIC had just completed the development of it's N+3 process equivalent to 5nm (it's just 2-3 yrs behind SMIC) and China will have a domestic made EUV in 2-3 yrs time. China is on a par with the West on chip design and lead in packaging. It's catching up in warp speed in manufacturing.
Are you sure? Because the 2-3 years lag which you yourself mention is a huge gap of time in leading technological scale in chip manufacturing.
There is no alternative data that confirms that China is fulfilling internal demand of 5-7nm by in-house design and manufacturing processes let alone exporting it in any shape or form.
But I will be curious to see such data.
@@pamtam1 The development of high-end chip manufacturing is slowing down as the processes reaching its limit. The latest 3nm Apple A17 chips, for example, doesn't offer much improvement over its 5nm predecessor, A16.
So even TSMC figures out how to make 1nm chips, 1. The wafers are too expensive 2. the performance gain is low. 3. This is the limit of its technology.
At the same time, China is catching up in this field. We are already certain that they can make 7nm chips at a high quantity, and we are not even sure it is SMIC who produces them. Given a couple of years, they can advance to 5nm or even 3nm. By that time the US will not have any advantage at this field.
How can china have 3nm when it can't get latest asml machines?
@@bobpritham2660
Because ASML is not the only way to produce EUV, just like Lockheed Martin is not the only one who knows how to build stealth planes.
China is making it's own EUV machines. It already got an engieering prototype build using LPP and an EUV factory using SSMB (I suggest U google Steady State Micro Bunching) @@bobpritham2660
the chip act sound like a lot of money(52.7bn), but TSMC alone spend around 35bn in a year, and they have been in the business for over 30 years
so US still have a lot of catching up to do
or they could just work closer with TSMC and all the other Taiwanese companies, makes everything easier
$52bn is just the incentive, over $210bn of investment into new fabs has been announced by the private sector. (in US)
US has no catching up to do, US still is the leader of semiconductor industry, (technology-wise), the first 2nm chip actually was fabricated by IBM, 2.5 years ago, and Intel is on the path of mass manufacturing its 2nm chips next year (2024), and its 1.8nm will be a year after that, (2025), TSMC 2nm production will be 2026-2027.
Yes, but people think manufacturing these chips are so easy. If they read up on history they would know that many countries have tried to become fab centers of the world but have failed to succeed.
@@Freshie55exactly, I live in Taiwan, and our whole country is built on making chips and electronic, all of the biggest companies are chip or electronic maker, the best students go study electrical engineering, if you could get in to TSMC or company like that you will be the pride of your family and be set for life
TSMC is a household name and we often jokingly call it "護國神山" meaning "the godly mountain that protect us"
So if US want to get back in to the chip and electronic business, they will probably need more than just money
And TSMC(and most Taiwanese tech companies) have very unhealthy working environment, they pay very high wages and bonus to keep you work hours as long as possible, we have a saying "十萬青年十萬肝，GG輪班救台灣" , basically mean " 100 thousands young people is 100 thousands fresh bodys, let's keep staying on shift to save Taiwan".And it is not uncommon seeing news about tech companies have people work to the death. I don't think this is a working culture that could work in the US
It's all political plays. US should just build fabs for its military uses. For commercial usage, just hand it to Taiwan. Much cheaper and practical solution.
Eventually America will shoot itself on foot by restricting advanced chip technologies to China. The recent launch of 5G smart phones with 7nm microchips by Huawei is a case in point. No matter how difficult to manufacturing advanced chips, as long as the chips are made based on physical and chemical principles, China will make them just give it a little bit of time.
Without access to advanced manufacturing equipment and knowledge, China can only improve so far. Using your Huawei’s Mate60 Pro as an example, its CPU is not as good as the one it had several years ago. So, Huawei is behind by 3 or more years. The gap will continue to widen. Apple’s iPhone 15 is equipped with 3 nm CPU TSMC’s latest product. It will take another 5 to 7 years or longer for China to get there. By that time, TSMC will be making 1 nm chips. In the meantime, China will spend enormous amounts of money and resources to catch up. US is trying very hard to make it very difficult for China to catch up. By spending a disproportional national resources to catch up, China is wasting money thru inefficiency and corruptions. Is it worth it? One would wonder what could have happened if China did not challenge US’s position globally.
Let's see in 5-10 years.
@@alalfred3474 The Chip industry in China is progressing much faster than you can imagine. They are trying to build a Lithography factory using a gigantic particle accelerator, called SSMB.
@@niuliu6504 You are correct, for mature chip production for most applications, China is doing great. For advanced chip production, it is and will continue to struggle due to US restrictions. The alternate technology you mentioned requires enormous setup for commercial applications. As I mentioned earlier, US is probably happy that China is spending money and time to develop alternatives while ASML will progress on a faster pace.
@@alalfred3474 Moores law is already effectively dead, the next generation of semiconductors will cost another order of magnitude more to develop while china, with a second movers advantage is hot on the US' heels. What the US cannot get around is physics. There is a finite size you can make a semiconductor before it just stops working because there aren't enough atoms to form a connection, and thats expected to be reached by 2035 at latest. What then?
China is already neck and neck with the US in other fields like quantum, photonic and graphene computing which will be what comes after silicon semiconductors.
This episode looks like a poem dedicated to Kings/Queens. No critical thinking only ura ura ura. “Chips and science act” was touted by a woman as being a crown jewel 💎 of the Biden Administration. Come on you chorus singers 😅
Hey, the viewers are the ones who need to do the critical thinking. This video cannot do the thinking for you.
@@Thephilpw99 Please read twice what you wrote.
It is a positive, BIPARTISAN bill. Sorry your Conald Trump guy couldn't come up with anything better than tax cuts for the 1% - smashing consumer protection and giving payday loan companies full fledged power to charge outrageous late fees...
The only great Trump bill was Project Light speed. Else than that....worst President in y lifetime in everything.
Funded by the Biden administration 🤣😂. Social credit score +10000
You can tell this documentary was made before Huawei's 7nm chip breakthrough.
7nm node's significance is way beyond mobile phones, because it's the sweet spot node for AI chips. Huawei's Ascend AI chips will power China's AI industry
The 5G RF chipsets made by Huawei also meant they are now completely independent of the US in their core sector of communication infrastructure.
Okay wumao 🐀
@@MithunOnTheNet^_^没脑子 😅❤ 老鼠🐭 蟑螂🪳💩
Highly delu- social credit boosting comment.
As long as you believe in your own propaganda, I’m sure there is cause for celebration. Monday 25th sept at the Huawei product launch: no mention of the Mate 60 pro. Why is Huawei and the govmt so tight lipped about the supposed resounding success of Chinese engineering? Because it relies on help from Taiwan to circumvent the US export controls. This will end soon. So for now because it can’t be manufactured in great qty due to this reliance, you have to travel to Nanjing to get this at the original price, you have to pay in cash and activate it on the spot. It’s more an act of defiance and publicity stunt than a major breakthrough and definitely not tech independence.
@@MithunOnTheNet does being racist help make you look smart?
I don't think that ASML was mentioned once. But without their litho machines not much would happen.
So is this a lack of understanding is the actual production chain? Or does it but serve the strategic interest of a program like this? Or is it sheer nationalism, assuming that the world only knows USA interests and companies directly serving those?
Due to the failure of the United States to suppress Taiwan's technology in 2002, EUV was successfully developed in Taiwan, and the era of artificial intelligence began. In 2022, two Japanese companies, Nikon and Canon, will monopolize the global lithography equipment market. At that time, ASML was still a small company surviving on orders from TSMC.
Intel established the EUV LCC Alliance to develop lithography machines using American dry methods and adopt American lithography machine technology. Major manufacturers such as Motorola, AMD and IBM were allowed to join the alliance, but TSMC was excluded from the EUV LCC alliance.
Subsequently, TSMC cooperated with ASML and used the immersion lithography technology developed by TSMC to conduct research and development at F12B, the TSMC R&D headquarters located in Hsinchu Science Park, Taiwan.
At that time, there were two EUV R&D units in the world, but the Intel EUV LCC alliance failed. TSMC spent 1 million wafers in testing at the F12b wafer fab, and finally successfully created EUV to produce advanced chips.
The United States has not invested a dime in the research and development of modern EUV, and not a single American engineer is involved in research and development. Immersion lithography technology is TSMC’s technology. If the United States did not have Taiwanese technology and Nvidia was founded by Taiwanese, could the United States still become a world hegemon?
The problem is that the US economy is based on "printing money" instead of producing the things to exchange for money. To assist with that proposition, Corporations have to off-shore assets off the books, so that the capital markets can deal with stocks that have as high a capital-asset ratio as possible, so that each Corporation is comparable to a black box into which capital is assigned, and more than was put in, comes out the other end.
It's fine. Treat semiconductor as oil and Taiwan as another Saudi Arabia. Tie semiconductor to dollar is doable.
Someone has to provide money and commodity based isn't a good thing. And the U.S. economy is based off way more than printing money.
The assertion that the U.S. economy is solely built on "printing money" and offshoring assets to manipulate capital markets oversimplifies a complex economic landscape. While the Federal Reserve has employed expansionary monetary policies to support economic growth, the U.S. economy is far from a one-dimensional entity. It boasts a diversified economy that encompasses manufacturing, services, technology, agriculture, and more. While offshoring is a strategy employed by corporations to optimize operations, attributing it solely to manipulating capital-asset ratios ignores the multifaceted reasons behind such decisions, which can include market access and supply chain efficiency. The stock market plays a significant role, but it doesn't encapsulate the entirety of economic activity. In reality, the U.S. economy's dynamism arises from a combination of factors, making it a far more intricate and multifarious system than the simplistic portrayal presented in your statement.
@@GoGoPooerRangers Couldn't have said it better myself.
Yes.
Wonder what happens if China insists that Intel make their chips in China if Intel wants to sell to China.
Will Intel will set up Fabs in China?
Probably not, as they are the recipient of major grant money from the US government. If they set up a fab in China, that would not only make them look as a traitor to the US government, but also - to the people of the US, as most know by now that chips is as much geopolitical and national security, as it is about capitalism.
China actually is very likely to make such an ultimatum, if they have secured a comparable quality chip, made in China. They know Intel can't accept, so they have a great reason to shoo them off and clear the way for a chinese chip maker.
That's why Intel, is going to have such a challenging era ahead. I'm super glad the current CEO is at the helm, he is a hardcore engineer, learnt how to lead from Andrew Grove, who is one of the GOATS, but they do depend on China quite a bit and that's a touchy subject for all concerned..
Either they comply like Tesla did or they lose out on that market. And we both know money talks so any talks of decoupling is moot.
Leaving China can hurt, but companies do take the hit and leave. Google comes to mind.
Good point
@@andyyang5234 Google lost the battle with Baidu and fleed as a loser. Lol
Glad they touch on education and emigration. We need to attract these smart individuals and let them live their lives here without threat of deportation. This is the American way
Racist policy in US like those from Donald has been driving talents away
what a fan boy
america prints dolars and buy everything hahahahah
It's not these people being deported. These people don't have h1b vida to stay.
The American way is to to destabilize their home country with wars, sanctions, or CIA operations to make it unlivable first, before offering them and their family a "better future" in America.
It's the good old Imperialism way America learned from it's predecessor British Empire.
The accomplishment of China in developing 7nm semiconductors, especially vital for mobile phones, is truly remarkable. It reflects their dedication towards achieving greater self-reliance. I have hope that the USA will similarly strive for independence from Asian nations such as Taiwan and South Korea.
true
Produce at scale then we’ll talk, apple dominates in china more than huawei now too
The suppression by the US could be a motivation for Chinese scientists and engineers.
China’s production of 7nm semiconductors sounds impressive on the face of it, however their process is flawed and incredibly wasteful.
Its main purpose is headlines rather than production.
@@abdiganiadenApple is in trouble in China, their products are now AFAIK prohibited for use by those who work at any level of Chinese government.
The team who made this video clearly has no idea what is going on in China and now is welcomed by the launch of fully made-in-China Huawei advanced chips.
It will take 50 years to be any level of comparison to US grade chips. Unless they copied everything. Many of the advanced chip making requires heavy knowledge in physics and optics because all chips are made thanks to a Dutch made litho machine. The only way china is able to make the new
@@ShopperPlug
No US company can mass manufacture 7 nm chips. A Chinese company recently is mass producing 7 nm chips. I don't know where you get that 50-year time frame.
If copying is so simple as you said, why are so few companies accomplishing the same thing? Please don't tell me that all companies in the world are honest.
@@ShopperPlug china is already capable of making DUVi lithography machines equal to the dutch. they're only a few years out from making EUV. Also. when you've been blocked from buying what you need. Patents and copyright are forfiet. china will steal and copy all it needs to satisfy its own domestic market and theres nothing anyone can do about that.
Financial Times is a British newspaper that is in lock-step with the policies coming out of Washington DC. America all i8s good; for China, all is bad!
@ShopperPlug You talk like the US invented chips, if you want to talk about copying everything you don't need to leave the US. Chips, cars, cinema, you name it anything that's 'American' and you'll know it was stolen. 😂😂😂 So the nerve to criticize China, when the OG plagiarist what YOU.
Given the recent worker strikes against the big three automakers, I'm not sure about the prospect of semiconductor industries
As long as Pat Gelsinger is in charge, Intel has a good shot at returning Intel to leadership. Pat works incredibly hard. My first job out of grad school was at Intel and Pat was my group GM. The job I had was basically what we would call DevOps now and there were times where I either needed to be in at work very early (6am) or left quite late (9pm). No matter if I was coming in early or coming in late, Pat's car (a very modest Volvo) was always the first car next to the front door. Point is, Pat works extremely hard and he inspires that in others. Intel has good times ahead as long as Pat is there.
agreed. smaart person
Pat may work as hard as he wishes. The problem is.........the ENTIRE company must be willing to work hard. Can you say the same for the ENTIRE company ????
Can't the Asian competition just put in more hours if that's all it takes?
One does not live to work but the other way around!
America just doesn’t have the human capital for these projects but also not the attitude to fix it
Because Americans are bz creating more obstacles to rivals
A consequence of calling good students as "nerds".
not just that i think. it's an overemphasis on profits (capitalism) / stock prices. leaders within many technological engineering company often has little to no technical understanding of the actual manufacturing process.
Technological supremacy does not come from chips, themselves. It comes from fostering a culture of innovation and policies that are startup friendly. Something the US has been doing very poorly at in recent years.
U.S. is very startup friendly just not for high-cost manufacturing such as semiconductor.
The us is great at developing new tech. Then outsourcing production to developing Asia.
@@afroabroad True due to cost, environmental regulations and labor.
Given the posture with China, the chips tech will retain in Taiwan, S. Korea and lower teer technology plus packaging going to Malaysia, Vietnam, etc.
The future of making smaller and smaller chips is not determined by TSMC or Intel but by a Dutch company called ASML, they determine how small the chips are delivered by de foundries. It all starts at the wafers and the machines of ASML determine the amount of nanometers.
You mean wafer fab machines and China has started developing their own.
ASML no more leading, China Kicked them out, couldn't have happened to a more arrogant company.
EUV does allow for smaller chips but if it is to be adpoted and supported by industry, they need the big players like TSMC to make use of it. There are still technical hurdles to overcome for EUV to be widespread and older nodes are actually very reliable
@@yellowChupacabra When they minaturize the circuitry more, it does more than allow for smaller chip sizes. It allows for higher possible clock speeds and/or lower power consumption. So you get an improvement in performance. That has historically been one of the main factors driving improved microprocessor speeds and lower power consumption over time.
@@jeffstrehlow2623 the main driver has been to push the speed of the chips themselves. Recently however it seems that that trend is now shifting: Speed alone is not the only deciding factor, and existing chips are already plenty fast (in most cases anyway). What matters today is the manufacturing process, including things like failure rates and they types of features supported. Also things like chiplets and SoC means that older nodes still have value
The USA had been leading in chips manufacturing & has now been caught up by others and this shouldn't be or deserve to be put down using the US military.
At this point it is impossible to stop the Chinese dominance in high tech products including the most high tech chips ever made....The worst part is that everything the Chinese are making is very affordable compared to what is produced in Europe or America. This will mean Chinese global tech market domination including markets in poor developing nations of Africa
Complete and utter fiction. The US is streets ahead and will remain so. China is failing as we can see in real time
Thanks, wumao bot
@@errgo2713 does being racist make you sound smart?
@@lagrangewei
That's the problem, some are so filled with hate they are blinded. It consumes us when we can't see past our ignorance and are secluded in our own bubbles.
Something the US tends to forget is that Africa could one-day be a great market for these products
Wolf speed plant in Siler city NC will be up and running in 2-5 years. I'm working there now
Tell me more..I’m also in NC
The title should be: The race to maintain semiconductor supremacy.
if we are serious about de-risk
then there are SO MANY BOTTLENECKS,
like Qualcomm being the control of the these new chips, like Japanese moulding compounds, ASML.
How do we de-risk one BUT not the other?
I hope that we can can catch up before the critical point is reached. I don't want to see war in my lifetime...especially between two powers in the 21st century.
It doesn't seem to me that in life you can get second chances, the moment you lose grasp of an opportunity it becomes incredibly hard to seize it back again. I don't like what the future is looking like
Lol. War is driven by USA not china. Has china ever invaded anyone in past 30 years? US invaded Iraq twice, afghan, Syria, Vietnam, Korea, etc. Covertly overturn govt. Chinese don’t like wars. China has been invaded by Japan, and UK-France-Spanish-etc the western colonizers. Who is the one with battleships thousands of miles away from homeland to circle around China coastal lines provoking? Who has hundreds of military bases around the world that pentagon is having a hard time to keep track of and cannot account for all its spending? We US taxpaying footing the bills. US here is more likely to have internal wars than external. Sadly. Divided country. Homeless. Gun violence. Wealth gaps. Then global warming. China doesn’t want to fight… it’s US wants to maintain its exceptionalism
@@marklee8819you’re not a US taxpayer you’re a wumao.
@@sisyphus_strives5463no need to catch up, the US is comfortably in front
@@marklee8819 China in it's history has never started a foreign war.
They don’t tell you that the majority of applications don’t need leading edge technology.
Hahaha
You are right. Majority of applications in most sectors do not need leading technology but then that is precisely the opportunity cost you pay to be the leader.
The extent to which you are at the cutting edge, you can keep on leading the world, the moment you slip up, you will always be able to use “majority of applications” along with rest of the world but you will NO longer remain an economic, military, diplomatic, powerful leader.
You know, if Biden and Trump agree on anything, it must be important
Excellent documentary , thank you for putting this together
At the center of all of this is people: Scientists, Engineers, Technologists, Technicians, etc… What no one is talking about is with the advances of new technologies and communication systems, we may restart a native industry, but may outsource the gray matter. These new plants are highly intelligent and automated, but the gray matter behind them may end up outside the US. Let us all be forewarn.
The USA has a history of offshoring businesses to low wage countries and losing that business technology to the country that they offshored the business too. This situation is a documented problem in international business. The USA economy is failing because of offshoring for cheap labor and because of that, I don’t think the USA government should not ask the citizens to fight a war with a country that now want that technology. Don’t think for one second that China has already made a deal with Taiwan to take over that island without destroying it if they give them what they want.
As a Taiwanese, I think what you said about Taiwan makes a deal with China is very funny
Do your homework, mate
Typicap wumao 😂
The US already said publicly that they will launch a missile to blowup TSMC if China takes over Taiwan. This tells us how much the US values Taiwanese lives.
50 cents is in your account, Xitler is proud of you.
Okay CCP propaganda 🐀
All the old timers are suddenly experts in semicon and its ecosystems. 😂
The question that everyone should be asking is why does the US think that it has the high moral ground and the audacity to say which countries should be able to improve their societies and their economies for the betterment of the people in those countries. If history is of any guide, it simply doesn't and it shouldn't.
yeah why is china in tibet, then? :))
If you have ever been to America and China you know that the US literally does have the moral high ground against them. Chinese culture has been so ruined by authoritarianism that only lies and fear propagate among the people. They have become incapable of anything other than lying cheating and stealing because of their oppression by the CCP.
Great post.
@@strigoiu13 China was in Tibet long before the USA was founded...
If the US today would start to invest in the types of engineering education that are needed, they might be able to compete by 2045.
Agreed but we are too busy fighting each other 🤦🏻♂️
you Chinese wumaos are the best.
😂😂😂we need decades to catch up to China
The US is comfortably ahead and just trying to make sure it remains ahead for the foreseeable future.
Science and engineering are very hard work, and there are too few native Americans who are willing to earn hard money.
These experts avoided mentioning Huawei's breakthrough in manufacturing 7nm chips. Interesting. Since the introduction of the Huawei Mate60 pro, the market value of ASML went down, Qualcomm went down, the US chip industries cut staff. I wonder why.
Fake news.
I haven't heard about the Mate Pro in weeks now. It just seems they made some with leftover chips as a propaganda stunt.
@@tijldeclerck7772 relook your sources of information. It's in the news everywhere in Chinese. My bet, you didn't know Huawei announced 8 new products from matepad, watch, TV,.....
@@tijldeclerck7772 Not my problem if you are not up-to-date.
@@cuttingedgetechsongsmovies9662 CNBC reported that the Huawei Mate60 could take 10 million units of sales off Apple.
US is clear that Taiwan is only in their interest until they obtained semiconductor technology onshore. China could obtain Taiwan since they have long in close relationship; except lately which is triggered by American bating Taiwan to be independence. Hope both of these economy giants would not go into war due to semiconductor. If Intel is able to manufacture 18A process in 2-3 years time as global foundry, it would definitely shift the focus of Taiwan important. Taiwan understood the importance of TSMC, and continue to build a lot of new R&D centers in Taiwan to research the next nm after 2nm.
Arizona's planned max capacity is only 4% of TSMC output and dies still need to be sent to Asia for packaging, Taiwan isn't stupid and ain't gonna dig their own grave.
if American officials think Arizona fab will help them survive Chinese sanctions they're gonna have a very bad time.
Read up on your history. Taiwan and America have been allies for longer than even the Japanese.
Taiwan and Korea rely on technology that is designed and manufactured in the Netherlands. That said, Taiwan and Korea have the people with the skills that the US has applied to the to-big-to-fail, of the financial markets.
Dutch used to steal spices now they create machines for carving patterns on silicon
yes the EUV myth. the reality is the problem is about the light source and EUV machine still has problem with it light source. the advantage EUV has on paper is not realised yet. company are really just using EUV to get used to the technology rather than because they "need" to... this EUV myth is what cause Japan to fly under the radar... because Japan doesn't have "EUV", US assume it is of little value... but the Chinese knows their potential...
Why do Americans need to combat China's rise as a technological superpower? Even if they want to combat it, I don't think it's possible to stop it. Isn't it better to work together with China and be friends?
And now, in 2024, China is in massive financial trouble, and is unlikely to continue as a manufacturing and economic superpower.
Its good that many others manufactures come to market to drop prices….
7nm chips are also being produced in China. I guess you just forgot to tell that
*key word "forgot" 🤭*
FAKE
with less than 50% accuracy rate,maybe true.
Thank you Lena for making a difficult complicated financial situation so simple and clear👍👍👍
Imagine if America stopped antagonizing china and Russia. We could all go back to trading peacefully 😢
Ok wumao.
yes trading other coutries assets like russia is trying again to do :)) too bad we did not buy it this time!
We all want to avoid paying more for electronics, but at the same time don't want our devices to be implanted and backdoored by our competitors, even though we do it to our supply chain and theirs as well, in the form of key-like register, core and debug instruction backdoor functions and intra-processors.
High level of accuracy👏
US chip making cost is about 30~50% higher than Japan, Korea and Taiwan. US government cannot compensate the vast gap.
The CHIPS act is just too little money and a little too late and very misalocated money, even the new US industrial policies are just too short to compete on Global Scale, TBH much more money and funding directed towards productive goals is needed as the same level of subsidized quality education and easy emigration to attract quality talent just to catch up with China.
The video said that China has been spending a CHIPS-act amount of money every year, but emphasized on "fruitlessness". The fact is that all such big investments will be abused to some extent, just like what happened to China's investments on green technologies and EVs, but we have seen the impact of those investments now.
😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😮😢😮😢😮
It seems that Chris Miller has been sleeping for the past five years!
A useful sharing , thanks!
TSMC is facing difficulty in Building factory and finding competent suitable engineers in U.S.
Intel was already OUT.
China has already embarked on its quest to be at the cutting edge of chip technology. The good news is that China is taking the know-how out of Taiwan rather than going into Taiwan to capture it. Granted, this is a little bit too difficult for politicians to understand as it is longer than a five year process.
Fair game to them then. Lives lost is not the answer. Whoever strategizes more effectively without violence deserves to take power. The West needs to get with the times, we have a huge cultural problem. Our people are more self-absorbed, distracted and lazy than ever before. Vapid consumerism reins supreme. We glorify all of the wrong things. I don't see how the west wins this one, given how our society is currently working.
I agree with you. I also think that, in the west, the younger generation's general career path is one of not working at all. Society may now be dumbed down to the point where people with degrees do not have basic language skills and are unable to do mental arithmetic but the youth of today do realise that working for a living is a futile pursuit. Work, for the masses, will never get them a mortgage for a home where they can build a normal family life so why bother? @@WalterSamuels
Every country is a gangster untill China enters any technological field/area and overcomes the sanctions imposed by USA and its puppet countries. China has proven time and time again the old saying “necessity is the mother of all inventions”, from chip technology to space and modern warfare China is on its way to be a self sufficient country. I am an Indian but I respect and admire Chinese advancement and growth in every field of today’s modern world
My younger brother was an international student at ASU from 2009-2013. He graduated the first of his class, and simply flew back home after the graduation ceremony by a few days. 😅
Yet somehow, economic migrants with no skills whatsoever, are being housed and fed for free, by America and the UK all the time.
Omg. People r so ignorant.
America & the UK destroyed how many countries???? Asking cuz it’s centuries they r stealing the resources labour ideas wealth & labour from most of the world
If ur worried about housing someone dont worry one day Americans will b refugees as well & maybe our former victims will take us in after they surpass us
I don’t see the link between the 2. There are several immigration lines. One queue does not move faster or slower because of another line.
@@richiesd1 I think there is a link. US should make it easier for the STEM graduates to stay in US and work hi tech jobs, research etc and contribute positively. If you look at the 8 millions that crossed the border in the last 2 years, most of them are a burden to the society.
@@inspyr9 , how do the economic or political migrants prevent the USA from accepting more STEM graduates or skilled immigrants? I think the link that you're making is not logical.
wow, that was really well made
at 21.51, the interview with the consultant was the most interesting. I've seen other videos from CNA on this topic and the experts there had vaguely alluded to systematic issues within China but I think this guy nailed it. The system's inability to accept honest feedback will be a stumbling block that will work more effectively than any sanction. Basically, the system itself is costly and inefficient. Also, I read the other comments about recent successes but other people more informed than myself pointed out why it was inefficient.
That dude can write his own pay-checks, earns many millions a year
21:51
It's same over America the high post cannot listen to honest advice but military industrial advice must take in.
Americans should also honestly accept the fact they don't have the human capital and mentality of producing semiconductor to be competitive. For Chinese companies it's a different story. they have confident to get a one-off bite of the 9.8 trillion RMB government funding and run. Just like how they play the real estate game. Leave unfinished houses to the government and transfer money elsewhere
however he is talking about the past, BEFORE the tech war. what most people don't realised is the number of Taiwanese and Japanese tech leader that has move to China. the Japanese still feel betrayed by US for the plaza accord that made their chip too expensive and cause their companies to collapse, want a "2nd attempt" in a country which has a large enough domestic market to survive US pressure. while the Taiwanese feel betrayed by TSMC over lawsuit to prevent them from working with Korea decided to head to China to craft their own "heaven". these leading engineer are all very egotastic people, they refuse to bow and compromise. and it is very likely some of them are responsible for producing the chip Huawei use on Mate 60. the fact that Mate 60 appears with a chinese chip shows that stabmling block is now a thing of the past. because China has become a haven for asian engineers who felt the that current american system is rig against them. US attempt to strong arm TSMC to build plant in US will lead to more TSMC lead engineer abandoning the company and going to China. they can't stand the US labour policies and feel it is unjust that american are paid more than them when they do a worst job and are less qualified. US unwillingness to use Taiwanese engineers due to union pressure will cause the US project to stall and accelerate China development. many engineers has already quit, but they have to wait for the 2-3 year contract term of not working for a competitor to expires before they can start work...
China can't produce high end chips..
Huawei : .........
Yeah, Huawei has indeed been extremely quiet about this supposedly miracle chip. Why launch in such a lowkey manner, and not even mention its full specs in their event?
@@andyyang5234 because they haven't finish the software. the phone is still being software update to improve it performance, it already 20% faster than when it first appear. they clearly launch it early as a middle finger to the visiting commerce secretery... :) they can finish the software later anyway...
@@lagrangewei :)))) nobody cares about huawei anymore. deal with it :)
The shortage in China is 28nm chips which are old technology products.
the translation of that taiwan consultant is actually wrong. China already produce 20% of the world chip supply, he is talking about highend chip. the translation is missing the world "lower than".
@@lagrangeweithanks, that makes more sense.
The war in Ukraine doesn't need 7 nm, 5 nm, 3 nm or 1 nm or even 14 nm chips. Eventually, appliances and EVs in China will be fitted with NearLink sub-chips in place of bluetooth and Wifi and Hongmeng OS. I could envision the day, when a hydrodam is erected in Africa, all electronics will be HiSilicon and Hongmeng.
1:22 - At least all of the BEST chips are all invented and designed in US but manufactured outside of US to stay in flow with competition. So it's not that bad.
lol myth
TSMC has already run into problems with the local workers in Arizona. Don't hold your breadth for it's success.😅
They don't necessarily determine the ultimate success or failure of the project. Companies like TSMC typically adapt and work through initial issues to establish a productive and harmonious operation. The long-term success of TSMC's Arizona facility will depend on its ability to navigate these challenges effectively and contribute to the local economy and semiconductor industry. It's the US, they have the money and the means to secure the talent, it also helps that it isn't a repressive country like China. oof @ ur subscriptions lol
I thought the Americans support Taiwan because they support democracy and self determination, which is very very noble. Then why would they be worried if the Taiwanese elect a pro-China leader, through a democratic process, and the island decides to deal with China peacefully?? Shouldn’t that make the Americans very happy? Hmm I’m so confused.
The fact is that every president we elect is liked by the United States (including Ma Ying-jeou, when the United States also hinted that Taiwanese should choose Ma Ying-jeou)
The attitude of the United States plays a very important role in Taiwan’s elections.
America is saying they are targeting China, but aiming at their own allies, Taiwan and South Korea.
If silicon, please refer to the SEZ model or special economic zones model deployed in cities like Norsk freight, Bengaluru and Shenzhen though any HVAC & energy related goes via France because altair, etc
How would the world leader in Tech, the Silicon Valley of US fall short to a tiny Chips Tech demand in the near future. Thus make someone from foreign especially Taiwan to notice it and start investing for long term especially TMSC and NVIDIA. Even Intel and IBM cannot compete. What happen here? In the near future these tech chips will use in all sectors including Military weapon especially Drone, city transportation infrastructure and more. Now I know why US is helping Taiwan for military defences.
AMD got cheated by Intel, so they sold all the hardware(fabs) and tech to TSMC. What happens when market makes it profitable to illegally collude with PC system sellers. The other reason is that engineering is not held in high regard in western countries so why should the normal person learn these jobs when they won't get appreciated. Only few western countries like Germany and Switzerland where engineers are still held in high regard. But it might be too late now, the cost of building the fabs will probably take a decade or two to catch up, and that's if they are lucky with no corruption and people are successful from actual merit.
It's becoming so expensive to develop and build a chip, that no one company -- or even one country -- can completely control the entire process from end to end. US chose the most profitable section (chip design) to keep, which left them with giants like NVIDIA and Qualcomm; Europe has the machines; Japan has the chemicals; while TSMC got a low margin but very capital intensive section of the value chain. Realistically none of these can live without the rest, and if we take China out of the picture, it's really an arrangement that benefits everyone.
US is not helping Taiwan. it is merely pretending, if US is really interested in defending Taiwan, every weapon Taiwan paid for should immediately be delivered to Taiwan. however all the weapon Taiwan bought only exist on paper. few if any of the weapon were ever delivered. why? because you can't defend TSMC, it a strategic liability, not an asset. if China feel US will intervene because of TSMC, they will simply bomb TSMC and elimate it from the calculation. then what value is there for the US to intervene after it is already destroyed? so US best move is to avoid China believing US will intervene, that is why US does not deliver the weapon and tried to drag it feet for as long as legally possible. US does not see Taiwan or TSMC as an asset, it see it as a liability. and druming up TSMC as if it is somekind of shield, is as stupid as holding a silicon wafer to trying and block a bullet with it. it not a shield, it a vunerability.
@@alexprach AMD did not sell their tech to TSMC, they merge it with Singapore companies to become Global Foundries which is a competitor of TSMC.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GlobalFoundries
seriously too many people are talking about semiconductor without knowing anything about it history.
A major failure of foresight !
And caring too much about the cents, losing sight of the future dollars.
Americans keeps importing a technical workforce, developing their skills and those same employees go back to their countries taking their skills to their government and then the USA is behind once again, and the American workforce is left behind in skills and work once again from the lack of the USA investment into its own citizens.
correct me if I am wrong but, isn't it because the us isn't a single organ but rather a bunch of different people trying to achieve splendor for their own parties? They will do what they can to get votes and when it comes down to making it big, quick solutions are faster approved. Looking into the internal market and lifting its working class, tech class, and middle class isnt a priority for ages anymore.
Seeing the world with such a childlike simplicity must be comforting.
I have worked with a lot of them in the Semiconductor industry, and most of them have come to the simple conclusion that life is better here for there family and there carrier.
Actually USA did it to themselves AMD would never have sold their tech to TSMC if Intel weren't punished so softly when they colluded to stop companies like Dell from selling systems with AMD chips.
When you make protectionism mean you want to keep prices higher and development slower...
Let's say the world achieved it's goal, and beyond with semiconductor tech do we continue to make more of the same machines, and tech? Or can we really blow the lid off of this thing already?🤞🏿🤞🏿🤞🏿
What America?! You just gonna ditch your long term Taiwanese friend (who never betrayed you) or throw Taiwan under the bus this time? Don't forget America plays a HUGE part in the history for what happened to Taiwan, you really think you can just ditch your friend/allies like this? Hum, leader of the free world??
No one is going to ditch Taiwan, for US, Taiwan issue is far beyond their chip industry, if China invades Taiwan, the one that's going to be ditched is China, the outcome would be obvious, US will get involved directly into the war or they will end their economical ties with China that would end China as we know it today.
😂😂😂
Taiwan isn't going anywhere. No need to freak out.
Being a friend of US, what do you expect 😂😂😂
"friend"? US does not even recognise Taiwan for the past 50 years. US "betrayed" Taiwan the moment US ended the defence treaty with Taiwan 50 years ago and kicked the Taiwan ambassador out of US. Taiwan is not a US ally, the Taiwan relations act is call an "act" because it is not a treaty, the act does not claim US will defend Taiwan, but that Taiwan should be able to "defend itself". is South Vietnam not a US ally? is Afghanistan not a US ally? the correct answer to all 3 is "WAS", the "WERE" US allies but they are not allies today.
furthermore, US is ally to ROC because the Chinese PEOPLE help US fight the Japanese in WWII. however ROC has already surrendered to and merge with PRC when Nanjing fall and the acting president Li Zhongren surrendered, the chinese PEOPLE who fought with the american are really the ones US should remember and honor as friends. Chiang was not the legal president of ROC, he was already kick out of office for corruption, he only claim to be president a month after the surrender has happened so whatever his regime in Taiwan is, it is not actually the same ROC, it is in fact the 3rd government to claim to be ROC after the original Beijing government, then the KMT Nanjing government, and finally Chiang's military government in Taiwan. is the "white terror" of Taiwan really something the "leader of the free world" should associate itself with? you don't know the history of Taiwan. the last thing Taiwan want to associate itself with is the very government US "allied" with.
no ASML mentioned...
hipicricy at the highest level, probably US contributed less than 10% in EVUs, i haven't come across anything except some contribution in light source.
@@OWAIS843 EUV is an American University patent... rewarded to ASML for development.
@@fransezomer there is a lot of difference between university thesis and a real world engineering machine, who in the US can make those mirrors that Carl Zeiss makes? it's much more difficult than every thing else in an EUV.
@@OWAIS843 In regards to the EUV technology you are just cluless, and you have no idea what your talking about, the EUV technology is basically the American technology, it was originally developed by US and ASML joined the efforts later, the early efforts on EUV system was done buy NIST (US), 3 of US DOE national labs (Sandia, Lawrence Livermore and Lawrence Berkeley) and a bunch of other American companies, a consortium of US national labs and the private sector was formed and R&D got started, ASML actually asked the US gov for the permission to get access to the technology, (Canon, and Nikon were eager to get involved too but US gov denied their request), and there was a whole lot of tech transfer and licencing to ASML, which many of them still hold, ASML bought a number of American companies to develop the technology further along the way, including some of the top American lithography equipment makers.
In regards to the American suppliers of the EUV system again you are just cluless, as I said above the technology originally was developed by US, so many parts and components of the system still come from American suppliers, (I can name many of them if you want.)
In regards to the light source, again you have no idea what you are taking about, the EUV system is nothing but its light source, it's the key part of the system and the most complicated one, its the core of the machine, it was the hardest part to design and build, and as you probably know it's designed and built by Cymer in California.
@@OWAIS843 There are a bunch of other companies both in US, Europe and Japan that are capable of making similar optics\mirros in EUV system, and I am not even counting US national labs and the National Institute of Standards and Technology in US, which are essentially the leaders in developing optical surfaces, EUV mirrors are not that hard to make, plus Tinsley Laboratories (US), SVG Lithography Systems (US) and SNL (US) were the ones that developed the initial EUV mirrors, later Carl Zeiss joined the consortium and co-developed the mirrors further with Tinsley Laboratories (US).
IF your economy is dependent on printing money and exporting it, out then you will get into headwinds when you bring production of international products back home.
Expect inflation in America once all dollars outside of US start coming back home.
Why not talk about rare earth metal in additional video? China has monopoly in resources and production. Chips need those to make. Same as Neon Gas, Ukraine and Russia has duopoly. It is a must for chip production too. And India and China has duopoly on basic drug ingredients prodution.
I love people likes you -know very little about this industry. But
Making silly comments
You seem to know as much about rare earth sourcing as you do grammar.
Your comment should be called as the joke of the year.
@@JigilJigil I am not saying there is something wrong about this video. What I am saying is there are other topics about monopoly in other fields related to semiconductor
@@anypercentdeathless I don't know much about rare earth. But I know china has an absolute monopoly on rare earth at the moment. And what do you know about rare earth then?
TSMC will not develop their most advanced chips in the states per national security issues.
I will not be surprised TSMC will be held at gun point to do it in US.
Separatist government will comply to US request, they need US support to survive politically.
@@sneakymove Taiwan has another option to join China. Not all Taiwanese are against unification with China. Your words will drive the DPP to lose the election in Jan.
@@sneakymove That would be akin to suicide for them. TSMC is a silicon buffer to china. Once the US gets new tech manufactured in Arizona, it's game over for TW. The US has no need to protect them.
@@sneakymove Quite opposite. Why the US would want to defend taiwan when TSMC has moved out of the island? Taiwanese homeland security can only be achieved if TSMC stays there.
The USA is known for managing skilled labour and the work force. Management is your core expertise.
we should welcome competition with China...Americans love Chinies people and we have proved that in the past 40 to 50 yrs. On the other hand.... make no mistake about it...if China is allowed to bully its neighbors...and we stand by...this will profoundly impact America. Remember that 2/3 of the world's growth is locked in south and South east Asia.
The US need better Harvard Law graduates to write better titles in their Acts. Like “Make America Great Again Act” etc.
China is now able to independently produce 7NM chips. China's recovery of Taiwan is not for chips. Even before 2027, as the media exaggerates, China will definitely obtain the capability of 3NM chips, so Taiwan is just a common excuse for the United States.
China is a housing Ponzi scheme, not a high tech powerhouse. China’s recovery of Taiwan is a pipe dream.
Hahaha
Hahaha
@@jennychuang808 It won’t be too late to laugh again in 2027, but it’s too early to laugh now
@@user-ez9rw5lm5w
親愛的小明
你完全不明白真相
@@jennychuang808 hahaha. Are you from Taiwan?
How could it be possible for semiconductor executives to be so stupid in addressing talent shortages? If the US is supposed to have the best higher education in the world, why would semiconductor companies need to import ringers? It is so damn offensive. If there is a shortage of engineers, then assign some of the CHIPS Act subsidies and industry profits to lower or eliminate tuition for students who will be manning these places. It is appalling that the country needs to import anything.
What happened to Rana's hand though, hope she gets well soon
thanks US's sanctions, the commercial, R&D and talent flywheel of Chinese semi and semi tools industry is fully spinning. Huawei now has a 5G SOC manufactured on equivalent TSMC 7NM node. They are putting in Mate 60, pro, pro+, RS, madepad pro, devices and looking to sell 10M+ units. It also has chips for smart TVs, smart cars, TWS headphones, AI training and inferencing (better perf than A100). Top 10 public Chinese semi tools companies revenues have been growing at 20-50% annually. And this is just the beginning.
Hahaha
@@jennychuang808 just wondered what is so funny with the facts.
@@user-km7rp1vy4y
Because this guy has zero knowledge about the semiconductor industry
@@user-km7rp1vy4y
He is boasting how wonderful the Chinese semiconductor industry is ?
But actually cost of the Chinese 7 nm chips is too high and the yield is super low
If you are interested in this topic , you might need at least 10 hours to understand the basic
@@user-km7rp1vy4y
A2: Semiconductor industry experts have long been skeptical of China’s ability to produce 7 nm chips at commercial scale. SMIC’s new 7 nm chip has led many analysts to call for a tempering of expectations; there is still plenty of doubt about SMIC’s ability to sustainably scale its advanced chipmaking. Creating chips at the 7 nm level using DUV lithography is a challenging process that poses two problems: low manufacturing yield and high rates of machine use. DUV machines produce imperfect results when utilized in this way, such that the yield per wafer could be as low as 15 percent. The lower the yield rate, the higher the market cost of the chips, hampering their commercial viability. In addition, because the DUV lithography machine is limited in how finely it can print a pattern onto a semiconducting surface, the machine needs to be used multiple times to achieve nodes smaller than 14 nm. In the case of SMIC’s manufacturing process, the DUV machine could see three to four uses on a single chip before producing a 7 nm result. As the usage of each machines increases, energy cost and maintenance requirements also become an issue.
EUV lithography machines are the ideal tools for producing chips at 7 nm and below. However, the Dutch-based company ASML-the world’s only manufacturer of EUV equipment-has not been granted a license to export EUV machinery to China, pursuant to an intense diplomatic push from the Trump administration in 2019 and 2020. It will be some time before China has the ability to manufacture its own EUV equipment; Chinese firm SMEE, China’s top rival to Dutch-based ASML, is expecting to commercialize equipment capable of 28 nm transistor size by the end of 2023. China, therefore, finds itself wholly reliant on foreign countries to supply them with the means to make advanced chips.
Without advanced EUV machines, SMIC and other Chinese firms need to make use of DUV lithography machines to make 7 nm semiconductors, raising doubts about widespread profitable commercialization of chips like the Kirin 9000s. This suggests that the shipments of Huawei’s new 7 nm powered phone could be limited to a small fraction of its total offering.
Who manufactures the manufacturing machines that manufacture silicon chips?
ASML in Holland.
@@pierosho And who manufactures the components that go into the machines that manufacture the machines that manufacture silicon chips? Must go deeper o.o
@@mrcookies409 the world is deeply interconnected
Many American, like Applied Materials, or others from Japan, like Ebara. Both I have worked on extensible.
@@mrcookies409they source alot in different countries dont push china cause they dont know how to build a EUV
The SC manufacturing needs to be decentralized. But US putting barriers on China importing chips from Taiwan is not a good strategy. I mean, you can't ask Taiwan not to sell chips to their neighboring China, but to the USA is not a fair play. Rather US should invest in SC industries inside the country, and in other part of the world.
There is never fair play in this world. TSMC stopped sales to Huawei completely due to US sanctions.
Did you ever stop to ask WHY the us is restricting these advanced chips to China?
@@evrythingis1 Because China is communist?
@@evrythingis1 yes . Usa hates china progress
Nothing new
China exclusion act which made China even more competitive
China wolf accords which limited China space progress . Now China has its own space program .
Soooooooo that's your 5th loss
@@evrythingis1 yes . Usa is jealous
From Potato Chips to Silicone Chips. Very nice 😊
The war is declared, the race is on. Because of embargo and restrictions China has no option but to invest all they have into it, including education, R&D, science and production of both equipment and Chips.
How it is going to evolve? I don’t know. China may not be able to catch up and surpass the West.., but still they will achieve some progress, and even if it will not be the cutting edge, but from practical application point of view at some point it will reach sufficient maturity level to support very advanced practical applications.
However, if we hope that imposition of embargo will lead to the stoppage of the electronics sector, or collapse of Chinese economy.., I think it came a bit too late.
But it looks like we are entering the new “Space Race”, and it should facilitate a lot of high tech development. My only concern is that our Universities, instead of developing Scientists and Engineers are now busy developing Cultural Warriors.., and it is not a good foundation for the new Space Race.
The rise of the MBA in industry resulted in a drop in scientific and engineering innovation. When accountants took over, the plot was lost.
If China is as aggressive as what you're reporting, why didn't they just invade Taiwan and gain advantage over the chip manufacturing?
Instead, they are now working on advancing their own industry. The US on the other hand, have invaded countries for oil,etc.
Kudos for China for choosing peace
They are actually playing the long game. Invading Taiwan doesn't mean they can gain the technology to produce high-end chips, because TSMC use equipment bought from all over the western world. The proper play is finding talents from Taiwan, let them work for Chinese semiconductor industry, and eventually gain the know-hows of manufacturing the chips.
@@Thephilpw99 exactly, they aren't into war games.
@@intothemoat yes, they're just building up their military and articial isalnds with military posts for funsies.
@@Thephilpw99 Many individuals seem to underestimate the complexities involved in developing and designing microchips, sometimes likening it to building a space station. In reality, chip manufacturing is often considered even more intricate than rocket science. Take, for example, the extreme ultraviolet lithography (EUV) process, which comprises over 400,000 components, an endeavor beyond the capacity of any single nation, including China. The concerns surrounding export restrictions are justified, given that while they possess deep ultraviolet (DUV) technology capable of producing 7nm chips, achieving mass production without substantial investments remains challenging. In addition, efforts to tap into talent pools, particularly from Taiwan and Samsung, have led to legislative changes to facilitate this process.
@GoGoPooerRangers would you not do the same? They have the US who is ready to go to war with them over trade deficit. A country that historically has been in war for 90% of the time.
China is virtually surrounded by US military bases, and the US regularly patrol within their border. Would you not be upping your military game with that sort of threat at your door step?
The life betting prediction
Awaiting an aggression it is wise to prepare - build a fortress. But what if attack does not come?
Overcome one's fear, suppress or convince aggressive comrades and lower your weapon in front of your foe - the only thing that needs to be predicted is whether the opponent is sufficiently evolved, has overcome the inherent aggression - he is only human.
Either you can persuade the opponent (sane one) of your harmlessness. She is only human.
Learning to predict the opponent alone would be "cheaper" than two fortresses - we are only human.
Let's learn/out of the fear!
DID I hear this guy say GROKED? LOL. Robert A would be so proud!
pretty muddled presentation -no context, random sound bytes, hyperbole mixed with facts, back & forth commentary. Confused between promoting US R & D and the current state of manufacturing!
I disagree. I found it cogent well sourced and engaging.
Did we watch the same video?
Welcome to FT 😂
Would love to see your documentary