During the War of 1812. The British actively recruited a couple of Battalion of "Colonial Marines" basically slaves recruiting during raiding around the US coast, they continued to served after the end of the war and eventually many were settled on barbados. I read a number academic articles on the subject
Absolutely fascinating. There were certainly a lot of black men in the Royal Navy. One was a gun-captain at Trafalgar, and was seen 3 time to put a shot clean through an enemies' gun-port. It seems there is a huge amount of research to be done into black men serving at sea and on the land in the 18th. century wars.
I don't wish to belittle the coloured troops in anyway, any one who has served Britain deserves respect. However a Battalion of 700 men with say 3 or 4 coloured men does not make the the unit diverse. Its very close to 100% white. A case of stating the obvious I think most people new their was a few coloured bandsmen.
When you are a black person like me you have different perspective. Eg when they make these films and show only white bands men what message does that give. Leaving about this information is a distortion of history. Another eg of this is there was a all black America tank regiment all last battle against German in Russia, all the films show not one black person. Imagine you grew up in a all black nation, and your ancestor fought for the black nation, but the left it out the movies. How would you feel. What you really saying is history of real people ordinary people don’t count. For the families that find this out is most be good. Some of them families are white now. It about treating everyone a valid humans.
@@historyonthego I'm not trying to belittle anyone's contribution to history. It's the rewriting of history I object too. I understand that there has been a small number of coloured people in Britain for hundreds of years and on an individual basis I understand they have played there part, but on a bigger scale until the end of ww2 the history of Britain is a history of white people. The industrial revolution, driven by white people the invention white people the armed forces 99 percent plus white people. The British Empire for good or bad white people. They are trying to write us out of our own history, sit back and see how that feels. If they made a program about Shaka Zulu and half the Zulus were played by white folks I would imagine you would be furious. So if I watch a Napoleonic film and a battalion comes charging over the hill and one or two are coloured people I have no problem it's historical if half or more are coloured it junk and should be treated as such. We have just ha Anne Boleyn played by a coloured actress it was an insult to our history.
@@historyonthego But the movie is about the American army. There were also, all white tank regiments. If you show black people, you're not showing the all white units. The thing is that 99.99% of them were white. It's just correct to show it that way, because if you show the viewer black soldiers, they will imagine the army as more diverse than it was - Whereas if it's all white, they could believe a couple - Proportionally accurate - of coloureds did exist within it.
@@JohnsonTheSecond What to talking about, there was a battle on the Russian front that had many tank regiments, one of them was all black , because racist American segregated the army. All I'm say is the film had white men representing a all black tank division. That is a blatant lie. The film needed to show the white division alongside the black one. 761st did a amazing job in France. That why Eisenhower or Paton can't remember the general asked for them. American are black and white people do you know that. Its just one eg.
I think Mary Seacole was a provider of hotel type services to officers for profit rather than a nurse, although I'm sure there was some medication involved. History here has been distorted for ideological reasons. Florence Nightingale was a ground breaking nurse and statistician.
Please delete you comment, because what you are saying is totally different to that British soldiers who wrote about her, she was in debt when after the war. she was a great healer and she new how to nurse before nursing became a profession, she attend to men on the battlefield according to times reporter and in her book. Florence was a came from rich family had a very good education and was a white women who was able to push for real changes yea she was great considering she was bed readen for many years.,Mary had nothing against Florence even thought Florence rejected her offers to work as nurse. Mary had a whole life of experience working with the same Soldiers who got posted from Jamaica to Crimea via England. Have you even thought, of the kind of person who would travel across the world to be of service to men she knew. Really some of you who put down Mary have not taken time even to read what Florence’s main nurse said about her. Mary had family in England white family., Every man in Crimea called her Mother Seacole, she was 50 year old women when she went by herself and her business partner to Crimea, he seem to be a English man to.Imagine being rejected by the war department, but still had determination to go by yourself. Please think about what I have said. Truth is what counts . It’s not about who was better, both women deserve praise. Florence was in better position to change hospital for ever, Last thing Florence majored in hygiene, but Mary was practicing that with her mother decades before. Europeans were the last to know about hygiene in medicine. I spent time to learn about Florence again and to learn about Mary.
Well I suppose the British army at the time was like the Royal Navy, which was if you sign up we do not care who you are, what you are. and where you come from and what you have done in the past. So long as you do as you’re told.
Africans recruited from within the empire made up less than 1% of the British army even at the height of the empire. The regiments were clealry segregated and led by British officers. For example, the West Indian Regiment which was based in the Caribean and Sierre Leone was led by British officers. There was possibly more in the navy but not by much. There was a clear racial hierarchy within the British army and admiralty. Africans or Indians would never be able to become officers or in high ranking positions which were reserved for British men which was a good thing.
@Mark Zuckerberg I thought we all came from Africa? We just arrived at different times. Also ancient Egyptian was the preeminent empire for 3000 years, ours only lasted a few hundred. Seems a quite big achievement to me.
@Mark Zuckerberg Thanks for the reply, I do however have some questions. Firstly, how long does a person, or people, have to inhabit a place before they are considered of that place in your opinion? And have the British always been on this island or did we not arrive from elsewhere? Secondly, I believe our media is one of this country's historic achievements so is it all lies or just about human evolution? Plus, who's media should I believe? Lastly, what are the parameters that gauge which civilisations achievements are better than others? Is it date? Are more recent ones greater than ancient ones? These are just questions and not meant as an attack.
@Mark Zuckerberg OK, sorry you've given me so many more questions, I'll just cover a few. How do you judge what English stock is exactly? Is it then lineage back to 927? What are the criteria? How long does one have to be in a place to become of that place? I.e how long would a family (and successive generations) have be in England before they cease being an immigrant and become English. What's the cut off point exactly? Was it not the same scientists who discovered the movement of the germanic peoples that also explained humanities origins in Africa and our migration from there? Is it not the same western media that tells you both facts? You doubt one but not the other, I would ask why? Maybe you have studied anthropology yourself? Last one. European influence is definitely fundamental to the modern world and I think the English language especially is something we on this island should be rightly proud of but, sorry, there was no altruism involved in this continents period of hegemony over the world. States do not build empires for the benefit of others, they do it for their own aggrandizement and for greed. We were not the first to do it and will not sadly be the last.... And also.. . Did we not start those wars we so courageously fought in? We're definitely the best at Blowing the shite out of each other for sure, we can add that to our list of European achievements.
According to her autobiography Mary Seacole was a hotelier and restuaranter who set up in the Crimea to serbe British officers, not a nurse. It's good to hear of genuine black heroes, they are I think more likely to impress than the fake ones usually invoked. I did read once that there were 10 West Indians and one West African on Victory at Trafalgar. It would be nice to know more about them and the others that presumably were enlisted on other ships.
As far as I'm aware black sailors were much more common than black soldiers and unlike with the army where they were recruited mostly as musicians, the navy recruited them into exactly the same jobs as white sailors.
@@TheJon2442 If you mean she sold them brandy and fine wine your correct. Her autobiography is free to read online and she never claimed to be a nurse.
Interesting, but not that surprising. Served with a Barbadian myself - great guy and very good soldier. However, at less than 1% of the strength of a unit (in the majority of cases) their presence does not make these units "diverse" in the way it is being couched these days - or that John is trying to portray at some points. What was much more diverse was the HEIC Army (later the Indian Army) where the majority of the troops fighting for the British were Indians. FYI: The father of Alexandre Dumas (author of The Count of Monte Cristo) was born in what is now Haiti to a French aristocrat father and black slave mother. Thomas-Alexandre Dumas Davy de la Pailleterie reached the rank of General in the French Army during the Revolutionary Wars (he had moved to France with his father as a teenager and was sent to a military school). Also, Mary Seacole was a sutler - not a nurse - and she did not work alongside Florence Nightingale. Her own biography doesn't even claim that!
I was alive when PC language was introduced under Reagan. I immediately _knew_ that if it took, it would lead to everyone editing to fit the New Narrative regardless of facts. It's irritating.
@@douglasherron7534 He was a fan of apartheid South Africa. He liked how they used terms to make Blacks feel psychologically inferior, such as the terms "White" or "non-White" on census forms. So they introduced their own hyphenated, conditional sub-American terms & for some reason beyond sanity it took. White, non-White American, African-American Human, sub-Human. African-American didn't replace the N-word. This was the 1980s & that word had already lost much of its power the decade before, in part at least due to the show "All in the Family." It replaced allowing Blacks to determine for themselves what they should be called. I've learned over the years some very, very hard lessons. One of which is that the VAST majority of people lack any self-awareness or the ability to see how the consequences of what they do now lead to worse things in the future. This is one example of many.
@@douglasherron7534 Reading social psychology has taught me a lot, though you have to read between the lines. Ask any American why they're supporting Mitch McConnell's efforts to block Heroic First Responders from getting needed medical aid. No one is: except if one has the power to stop a crime & doesn't, over & over daily for years, isn't that complicity? From 2018 through 2019, no less a governing body than the U.S. Congress itself told us that peddling one's influence for a quid pro quo while in office was a conflict of interest SO CRIMINAL, it's even illegal for a president to commit it. So right there, you have people in government and MSM themselves telling us that lobbying is not only happening, but that it *is* 100% illegal. And it isn't even a secret that this is *the reason that* he's doing what he's doing. So why don't any American even seem to _want_ to stop him? I'll answer this only if you ask me to.
I'm not sure being surprised that blacks served in the army is down to racism - few people are aware of the reality. In addition, Dr Who putting people in the weirdest places is a normal expectation. However, blacks in the Victorian army would be a surprise for many and so perhaps construed as a political casting rather than a casting based on historical evidence, which again would not be racist. It could well be racist but it is not evidentially racist.
That was an absolute eye-opener. I might suggest; however, that my surprise at the levels of 'coloured' British soldiery is not borne from any modern sense of racism but rather an assumption of a more racist and exclusionary attitude of people in our past.
@@redcoathistory A while ago I saw a Sharpe episode that featured a black redcoat and thought, "Oh come on!," thinking it was just some "wokester" pointy-headed producer playing politics. Now I must eat crow. Anyway, thanks to you and your interview subject for this. It was fascinating.
My 1st cousin once removed has got 3% African and don't know where it come from. That his on her father side and I'm related to her on her mother's side - very interesting. Thank you.
i don't see how black british soldiers are "cut" out of anything. From what you said it seems more like no one really cared in the beginning of the 19th century and then later on there were less black soldiers so they were mentioned less. They are reported as black or coloured, they get honors and accolades like other soldiers, they seem to have been respected when they had proven worthy of respect and the instances of "racism" you talked about could have happend to an irish man because he was irish or a french man becaus he was french, attacks on all "others" were pretty normal back then. that they are not really represented in portraits and the like seems also more or less accurate, even thousands of them would have just been a very small part of a force, so why for example paint them? especially if it wasn't special or rare for them to fight for england.
@@redcoathistory Completed as a Master's thesis in 1988 and published as a four-part series in; “Queensland’s Aborigines in the First A.I.F”, Sabretache (Journal of the Military Historical Society of Australia), Pt. I, vol.31 no.1 (Jan-Mar 1990) pp. 18-22. Pt. II vol.31, no.2 (Apr-May 1990) pp.16-19. Pt. III vol.31, no.3 (Jul-Sep 1990), pp.26-29 Pt. IV vol.31, no.4 (Oct-Dec 1990), pp. 36-38
One cool character that I’m always interested in is John Graves Simcoe who commanded the queen’s rangers during the US war of independence. Many of his soldiers were black and one in particular ( a trumpeter called Barney) captured a French officer and saved a Captain’s life in the same action. After the siege of Yorktown, Simcoe made sure he wasn’t returned to his slave masters and even made sure he got a Chelsea pension. Simcoe would later pass laws that led to the abolition of slavery in Canada.
28:55 - Black soldiers on the British side included *Captain Runchey's Company of Colored Men* -- a white-officer led all Black militia unit the size of around 30 or so men I recall, In action on the Canadian side of the border in the actions around the Niagara area at Fort George, and the big battle at Queenston Heights. There were blacks integrated in other regular units also. Many Blacks were in Canada by that time, coming from the United States as refugees and also Loyalist subjects who were evacuated after the British retreat following the American Revolution. Some years earlier on, a large group of Jamaican freedom fighters who were betrayed by a British peace treaty in a Jamaica, had been resettled in eastern Canada before then being relocated in Africa.
It is not often appreciated just how diverse Nelson's Navy was, while officers were, in the main British, the sailors were a cosmopolitan lot, with Danes, Americans, Germans, and even French serving on HMS Victory. There was no colour in the Navy, all would be considered Navy Blue, much as , believe in the US Marines, all men are "green" and part of the Green Machine. The fact that there were black sailors onboard Victory is immortalized on the base of Nelson's Column in Trafalgar Square, where a man of definite African decent is seen pointing to the sniper who shot Nelson. From my own experience of working with Royal Marines, in civvy street, it is obvious that colour plays no part in military life. Regarding the black musicians, I think this is down to the exceptional sense of rhythm that black people seem to possess, certainly far better than most whites! I suspect that is holds true in the Army as well as the Senior Service.
In the 18th century their were 8 whole West Indian regiments of black soldiers in the British Army. My 3 times great grandfather recieved his 1st commission in 1798 in the 8th West Indian Regiment. General Trigge later commented that it gave him "particular satisfaction to say that the 8th West Indian Regiment engaged with a degree of gallantry , and behaved in a manner, that would do honour to any troops" Why don't we hear more about these real black historical figures, instead of made up history of black Queens, and Nurses by people like the "historian" David Olusogo ?
A BBC documentary made a detailed analysis of the makeup of Nelson's sailors who fought at Trafalgar . They found that almost half were from Empire territories. Sadly as the British Empire got more formalised in the 19th century, the Royal Navy took on a pure European ethnicity. (The painting 🖼 of the battle scenes would by very stylised)
Fascinating- somehow in latter 19th century we turned up the racism and have yet to fully revert…I understand that while ancients were tribal..they weren’t racist..Romans for example…it’s not rewriting history to give value to other races and call out our white euro colonialism..it’s simply discovering more history..and that’s no reason not to celebrate the simple courage ..sometimes hubris..of the redcoat ..that’s why I like your stuff..
Re. the latter 19th century, you may be right in general terms and/or regarding attitudes in the UK/ Europe, but one has to wonder how much of that was media driven - much like a lot of the garbage we are fed as "news" today. The average British Tommy, Jock, Taffy or Mick had great respect for the courage of their enemies (and colleagues) irrespective of what race/ ethnicity they happened to be.
Douglas Herron in 1914 British soldiers were professionals and didn’t have a hatred for the hun as came later ..hence the Christmas truce..France was different due the Franco Prussian fiasco and need to justify the hubris that drove them to cause the war
@@johnaitken7430 If you are responding to the "ethnicity" part of my previous point I understand what you're saying - but it's not exactly what I meant. I was responding more to the racism part of your comment (while acknowledging that the "tribal" discrimination you mentioned would be considered ethnic these days - but could also be racial). However, doesn't your latest comment confirm the media influence factor too... Where did people learn to dislike/ hate the Germans? Answer: From the newspapers (Britain did not have a Ministry of Propaganda at the beginning of the Great War). The type of enemies I meant was more the Zulu, Sudanese ("Fuzzy-Wuzzies" of the Madhi's army) or even the Afghans/ Pathans (as was sent-up in Carry On up the Khyber via the "Bhurpas")...
Douglas Herron absolutely the media influence..these little comments are neither intended to be fulsome nor as triggers …the video did it’s job by causing some to reflect, and that’s enough
I guess it not about numbers it’s about real people, I’m black guy. When I think of any war. I first say to myself these are real men, with individual stories. Leaving out a black man that was in a regiment will distort the truth of the story when told on big screens. So little black boys grew up in all white societies thinking they not included in the big stories. Showing a white trumpeter in a film when in fact that person was a black man is a disservice. Maybe because you it hard for you to see it from a black persona position . Just try to switch things around in your head. I’m a historian myself and l love that these guys has spend a lot of time researching this. For the families it is gold. We should never minimise the role of any soldier. Recently I watch the Rise of the Ottomans, they didn’t show one black man, when it fact black men weee there at the fall of Constantinople and black men played the kettle drums, that why the British made it fashionable. Africans being very good when it comes to drums. But through our history major armies have employed black men, include Persia. America civil war has many greats of black man in service. At the end of the day just tell the truth about everybody wether the black or white.
I respect all men who have worn the uniform of my country mate. Nothing woke about it, just drawing attention to an interesting and under-researched aspect of the Napoleonic wars. Full respect to these men 👍
You'd think "historians" wouldn't place modern word sensibilities on to the people of the past. The so-called "n-word" would have been used at times no differently to saying "black" today.
Hi mate - that's a real shame you feel that way as I've always enjoyed our interaction. I love and respect all our soldiers and our military history regardless of colour or nationality. Keep in touch mate as I'll be sad to see you go.
During the War of 1812. The British actively recruited a couple of Battalion of "Colonial Marines" basically slaves recruiting during raiding around the US coast, they continued to served after the end of the war and eventually many were settled on barbados. I read a number academic articles on the subject
This is more than worthy of black history month these lads lived and died fighting for kings and queen. This is brilliant
Cheers, Kevin. Yes, it's an important story. Thanks for watching.
Absolutely fascinating. There were certainly a lot of black men in the Royal Navy. One was a gun-captain at Trafalgar, and was seen 3 time to put a shot clean through an enemies' gun-port. It seems there is a huge amount of research to be done into black men serving at sea and on the land in the 18th. century wars.
Fascinating bit of historical knowledge here. It should be told more often.
Cheers, Steven - glad you enjoyed it.
I don't wish to belittle the coloured troops in anyway, any one who has served Britain deserves respect. However a Battalion of 700 men with say 3 or 4 coloured men does not make the the unit diverse. Its very close to 100% white. A case of stating the obvious I think most people new their was a few coloured bandsmen.
When you are a black person like me you have different perspective. Eg when they make these films and show only white bands men what message does that give. Leaving about this information is a distortion of history. Another eg of this is there was a all black America tank regiment all last battle against German in Russia, all the films show not one black person. Imagine you grew up in a all black nation, and your ancestor fought for the black nation, but the left it out the movies. How would you feel. What you really saying is history of real people ordinary people don’t count. For the families that find this out is most be good. Some of them families are white now. It about treating everyone a valid humans.
@@historyonthego I'm not trying to belittle anyone's contribution to history. It's the rewriting of history I object too. I understand that there has been a small number of coloured people in Britain for hundreds of years and on an individual basis I understand they have played there part, but on a bigger scale until the end of ww2 the history of Britain is a history of white people. The industrial revolution, driven by white people the invention white people the armed forces 99 percent plus white people. The British Empire for good or bad white people. They are trying to write us out of our own history, sit back and see how that feels. If they made a program about Shaka Zulu and half the Zulus were played by white folks I would imagine you would be furious. So if I watch a Napoleonic film and a battalion comes charging over the hill and one or two are coloured people I have no problem it's historical if half or more are coloured it junk and should be treated as such. We have just ha Anne Boleyn played by a coloured actress it was an insult to our history.
@@historyonthego But the movie is about the American army. There were also, all white tank regiments. If you show black people, you're not showing the all white units. The thing is that 99.99% of them were white. It's just correct to show it that way, because if you show the viewer black soldiers, they will imagine the army as more diverse than it was - Whereas if it's all white, they could believe a couple - Proportionally accurate - of coloureds did exist within it.
@@JohnsonTheSecond What to talking about, there was a battle on the Russian front that had many tank regiments, one of them was all black , because racist American segregated the army. All I'm say is the film had white men representing a all black tank division. That is a blatant lie. The film needed to show the white division alongside the black one. 761st did a amazing job in France. That why Eisenhower or Paton can't remember the general asked for them. American are black and white people do you know that. Its just one eg.
@@JohnsonTheSecond false! 🙄
I think Mary Seacole was a provider of hotel type services to officers for profit rather than a nurse, although I'm sure there was some medication involved. History here has been distorted for ideological reasons. Florence Nightingale was a ground breaking nurse and statistician.
Medication the emptying of tubes attached to gentlemen parts!
Please delete you comment, because what you are saying is totally different to that British soldiers who wrote about her, she was in debt when after the war. she was a great healer and she new how to nurse before nursing became a profession, she attend to men on the battlefield according to times reporter and in her book. Florence was a came from rich family had a very good education and was a white women who was able to push for real changes yea she was great considering she was bed readen for many years.,Mary had nothing against Florence even thought Florence rejected her offers to work as nurse. Mary had a whole life of experience working with the same Soldiers who got posted from Jamaica to Crimea via England. Have you even thought, of the kind of person who would travel across the world to be of service to men she knew. Really some of you who put down Mary have not taken time even to read what Florence’s main nurse said about her. Mary had family in England white family., Every man in Crimea called her Mother Seacole, she was 50 year old women when she went by herself and her business partner to Crimea, he seem to be a English man to.Imagine being rejected by the war department, but still had determination to go by yourself. Please think about what I have said. Truth is what counts . It’s not about who was better, both women deserve praise. Florence was in better position to change hospital for ever, Last thing Florence majored in hygiene, but Mary was practicing that with her mother decades before. Europeans were the last to know about hygiene in medicine. I spent time to learn about Florence again and to learn about Mary.
Well I suppose the British army at the time was like the Royal Navy, which was if you sign up we do not care who you are, what you are. and where you come from and what you have done in the past.
So long as you do as you’re told.
Africans recruited from within the empire made up less than 1% of the British army even at the height of the empire. The regiments were clealry segregated and led by British officers. For example, the West Indian Regiment which was based in the Caribean and Sierre Leone was led by British officers. There was possibly more in the navy but not by much. There was a clear racial hierarchy within the British army and admiralty. Africans or Indians would never be able to become officers or in high ranking positions which were reserved for British men which was a good thing.
@@bp6231 what do you mean by “which was a good thing”
@Mark Zuckerberg I thought we all came from Africa? We just arrived at different times. Also ancient Egyptian was the preeminent empire for 3000 years, ours only lasted a few hundred. Seems a quite big achievement to me.
@Mark Zuckerberg Thanks for the reply, I do however have some questions. Firstly, how long does a person, or people, have to inhabit a place before they are considered of that place in your opinion? And have the British always been on this island or did we not arrive from elsewhere?
Secondly, I believe our media is one of this country's historic achievements so is it all lies or just about human evolution? Plus, who's media should I believe?
Lastly, what are the parameters that gauge which civilisations achievements are better than others? Is it date? Are more recent ones greater than ancient ones?
These are just questions and not meant as an attack.
@Mark Zuckerberg OK, sorry you've given me so many more questions, I'll just cover a few.
How do you judge what English stock is exactly? Is it then lineage back to 927? What are the criteria? How long does one have to be in a place to become of that place?
I.e how long would a family (and successive generations) have be in England before they cease being an immigrant and become English. What's the cut off point exactly?
Was it not the same scientists who discovered the movement of the germanic peoples that also explained humanities origins in Africa and our migration from there?
Is it not the same western media that tells you both facts? You doubt one but not the other, I would ask why? Maybe you have studied anthropology yourself?
Last one. European influence is definitely fundamental to the modern world and I think the English language especially is something we on this island should be rightly proud of but, sorry, there was no altruism involved in this continents period of hegemony over the world. States do not build empires for the benefit of others, they do it for their own aggrandizement and for greed. We were not the first to do it and will not sadly be the last....
And also.. .
Did we not start those wars we so courageously fought in? We're definitely the best at Blowing the shite out of each other for sure, we can add that to our list of European achievements.
According to her autobiography Mary Seacole was a hotelier and restuaranter who set up in the Crimea to serbe British officers, not a nurse.
It's good to hear of genuine black heroes, they are I think more likely to impress than the fake ones usually invoked.
I did read once that there were 10 West Indians and one West African on Victory at Trafalgar. It would be nice to know more about them and the others that presumably were enlisted on other ships.
As far as I'm aware black sailors were much more common than black soldiers and unlike with the army where they were recruited mostly as musicians, the navy recruited them into exactly the same jobs as white sailors.
There's a black sailor, looking like he's commanding a gun crew, on Nelson's Column
Mary Seacole... I think she actually provided 'comfort' services to the rich officer's.
@@TheJon2442 If you mean she sold them brandy and fine wine your correct. Her autobiography is free to read online and she never claimed to be a nurse.
"not proven" means they can't prove guilt but they still think you did it.
Agreed I looked this law up and your spot on
Interesting, but not that surprising. Served with a Barbadian myself - great guy and very good soldier.
However, at less than 1% of the strength of a unit (in the majority of cases) their presence does not make these units "diverse" in the way it is being couched these days - or that John is trying to portray at some points. What was much more diverse was the HEIC Army (later the Indian Army) where the majority of the troops fighting for the British were Indians.
FYI: The father of Alexandre Dumas (author of The Count of Monte Cristo) was born in what is now Haiti to a French aristocrat father and black slave mother. Thomas-Alexandre Dumas Davy de la Pailleterie reached the rank of General in the French Army during the Revolutionary Wars (he had moved to France with his father as a teenager and was sent to a military school). Also, Mary Seacole was a sutler - not a nurse - and she did not work alongside Florence Nightingale. Her own biography doesn't even claim that!
I was alive when PC language was introduced under Reagan. I immediately _knew_ that if it took, it would lead to everyone editing to fit the New Narrative regardless of facts.
It's irritating.
@@choosecarefully408 PC was introduced under Reagan? I was alive then, but at that time the UK was less influenced by US cr@p so I never noticed...
@@douglasherron7534 He was a fan of apartheid South Africa. He liked how they used terms to make Blacks feel psychologically inferior, such as the terms "White" or "non-White" on census forms. So they introduced their own hyphenated, conditional sub-American terms & for some reason beyond sanity it took.
White, non-White
American, African-American
Human, sub-Human.
African-American didn't replace the N-word. This was the 1980s & that word had already lost much of its power the decade before, in part at least due to the show "All in the Family." It replaced allowing Blacks to determine for themselves what they should be called.
I've learned over the years some very, very hard lessons. One of which is that the VAST majority of people lack any self-awareness or the ability to see how the consequences of what they do now lead to worse things in the future. This is one example of many.
@@choosecarefully408 Thanks, didn't know this. You learn something new every day... or at least you should try to!
@@douglasherron7534 Reading social psychology has taught me a lot, though you have to read between the lines. Ask any American why they're supporting Mitch McConnell's efforts to block Heroic First Responders from getting needed medical aid.
No one is: except if one has the power to stop a crime & doesn't, over & over daily for years, isn't that complicity?
From 2018 through 2019, no less a governing body than the U.S. Congress itself told us that peddling one's influence for a quid pro quo while in office was a conflict of interest SO CRIMINAL, it's even illegal for a president to commit it.
So right there, you have people in government and MSM themselves telling us that lobbying is not only happening, but that it *is* 100% illegal. And it isn't even a secret that this is *the reason that* he's doing what he's doing.
So why don't any American even seem to _want_ to stop him? I'll answer this only if you ask me to.
So nice to hear a conversation about skin colour, without a hint of either racism or patronising condescension.
Thanks.
I'm now subscribed.
Thanks a lot. On this channel I just try and tell things straight 👍🏼
Excellent. A lot of new, fascinating information.
Good video, I've subscribed on the strength of this. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for this a fascinating period of military history , was aware of black sailors but not in the Army.
Me too....that's why someone called our nation Great Britain....
I'm not sure being surprised that blacks served in the army is down to racism - few people are aware of the reality. In addition, Dr Who putting people in the weirdest places is a normal expectation. However, blacks in the Victorian army would be a surprise for many and so perhaps construed as a political casting rather than a casting based on historical evidence, which again would not be racist.
It could well be racist but it is not evidentially racist.
Very interesting and well told
Excellent!
Very nice. More in-depth than my endeavours.
That was an absolute eye-opener. I might suggest; however, that my surprise at the levels of 'coloured' British soldiery is not borne from any modern sense of racism but rather an assumption of a more racist and exclusionary attitude of people in our past.
Thanks, Gee. Yeah I was also surprised and that's why I thought it was a fascinating interview well worth doing.
@@redcoathistory A while ago I saw a Sharpe episode that featured a black redcoat and thought, "Oh come on!," thinking it was just some "wokester" pointy-headed producer playing politics. Now I must eat crow. Anyway, thanks to you and your interview subject for this. It was fascinating.
@@britishamerican4321 Cheers brother...Yes I think truth is often more interesting than fiction.
@@redcoathistory Definitely!
Interesting Injoyed listening well done 👌
Cheers, Shawn
Respect to you guys..
Thanks, I've subscribed to your channel and will watch some videos once i get a chance.
Excellent video
My 1st cousin once removed has got 3% African and don't know where it come from. That his on her father side and I'm related to her on her mother's side - very interesting. Thank you.
i don't see how black british soldiers are "cut" out of anything. From what you said it seems more like no one really cared in the beginning of the 19th century and then later on there were less black soldiers so they were mentioned less. They are reported as black or coloured, they get honors and accolades like other soldiers, they seem to have been respected when they had proven worthy of respect and the instances of "racism" you talked about could have happend to an irish man because he was irish or a french man becaus he was french, attacks on all "others" were pretty normal back then. that they are not really represented in portraits and the like seems also more or less accurate, even thousands of them would have just been a very small part of a force, so why for example paint them? especially if it wasn't special or rare for them to fight for england.
A fascinating study. My own research was into the role Queensland's Aborigines in the First World War.
Thanks, Rod. How is your research coming?
@@redcoathistory Completed as a Master's thesis in 1988 and published as a four-part series in;
“Queensland’s Aborigines in the First A.I.F”, Sabretache (Journal of the Military Historical Society of Australia),
Pt. I, vol.31 no.1 (Jan-Mar 1990) pp. 18-22.
Pt. II vol.31, no.2 (Apr-May 1990) pp.16-19.
Pt. III vol.31, no.3 (Jul-Sep 1990), pp.26-29
Pt. IV vol.31, no.4 (Oct-Dec 1990), pp. 36-38
Interesting, thanks
Thanks, jay.
One cool character that I’m always interested in is John Graves Simcoe who commanded the queen’s rangers during the US war of independence. Many of his soldiers were black and one in particular ( a trumpeter called Barney) captured a French officer and saved a Captain’s life in the same action. After the siege of Yorktown, Simcoe made sure he wasn’t returned to his slave masters and even made sure he got a Chelsea pension. Simcoe would later pass laws that led to the abolition of slavery in Canada.
There's a good book on the Queens Rangers by Donald Gara that's worth reading
The hero of Upper Canada!
@@geraintthatcher3076 Cool, cheers
28:55 - Black soldiers on the British side included *Captain Runchey's Company of Colored Men* -- a white-officer led all Black militia unit the size of around 30 or so men I recall, In action on the Canadian side of the border in the actions around the Niagara area at Fort George, and the big battle at Queenston Heights. There were blacks integrated in other regular units also.
Many Blacks were in Canada by that time, coming from the United States as refugees and also Loyalist subjects who were evacuated after the British retreat following the American Revolution. Some years earlier on, a large group of Jamaican freedom fighters who were betrayed by a British peace treaty in a Jamaica, had been resettled in eastern Canada before then being relocated in Africa.
They served on HMS Victory
It is not often appreciated just how diverse Nelson's Navy was, while officers were, in the main British, the sailors were a cosmopolitan lot, with Danes, Americans, Germans, and even French serving on HMS Victory. There was no colour in the Navy, all would be considered Navy Blue, much as , believe in the US Marines, all men are "green" and part of the Green Machine. The fact that there were black sailors onboard Victory is immortalized on the base of Nelson's Column in Trafalgar Square, where a man of definite African decent is seen pointing to the sniper who shot Nelson. From my own experience of working with Royal Marines, in civvy street, it is obvious that colour plays no part in military life. Regarding the black musicians, I think this is down to the exceptional sense of rhythm that black people seem to possess, certainly far better than most whites! I suspect that is holds true in the Army as well as the Senior Service.
In the 18th century their were 8 whole West Indian regiments of black soldiers in the British Army. My 3 times great grandfather recieved his 1st commission in 1798 in the 8th West Indian Regiment. General Trigge later commented that it gave him "particular satisfaction to say that the 8th West Indian Regiment engaged with a degree of gallantry , and behaved in a manner, that would do honour to any troops"
Why don't we hear more about these real black historical figures, instead of made up history of black Queens, and Nurses by people like the "historian" David Olusogo ?
I came here after seeing an African soldier serving under Napoleon from the film!
A BBC documentary made a detailed analysis of the makeup of Nelson's sailors who fought at Trafalgar .
They found that almost half were from Empire territories.
Sadly as the British Empire got more formalised in the 19th century, the Royal Navy took on a pure European ethnicity.
(The painting 🖼 of the battle scenes would by very stylised)
Fascinating- somehow in latter 19th century we turned up the racism and have yet to fully revert…I understand that while ancients were tribal..they weren’t racist..Romans for example…it’s not rewriting history to give value to other races and call out our white euro colonialism..it’s simply discovering more history..and that’s no reason not to celebrate the simple courage ..sometimes hubris..of the redcoat ..that’s why I like your stuff..
Re. the latter 19th century, you may be right in general terms and/or regarding attitudes in the UK/ Europe, but one has to wonder how much of that was media driven - much like a lot of the garbage we are fed as "news" today.
The average British Tommy, Jock, Taffy or Mick had great respect for the courage of their enemies (and colleagues) irrespective of what race/ ethnicity they happened to be.
Douglas Herron in 1914 British soldiers were professionals and didn’t have a hatred for the hun as came later ..hence the Christmas truce..France was different due the Franco Prussian fiasco and need to justify the hubris that drove them to cause the war
@@johnaitken7430 If you are responding to the "ethnicity" part of my previous point I understand what you're saying - but it's not exactly what I meant. I was responding more to the racism part of your comment (while acknowledging that the "tribal" discrimination you mentioned would be considered ethnic these days - but could also be racial).
However, doesn't your latest comment confirm the media influence factor too... Where did people learn to dislike/ hate the Germans? Answer: From the newspapers (Britain did not have a Ministry of Propaganda at the beginning of the Great War).
The type of enemies I meant was more the Zulu, Sudanese ("Fuzzy-Wuzzies" of the Madhi's army) or even the Afghans/ Pathans (as was sent-up in Carry On up the Khyber via the "Bhurpas")...
Douglas Herron absolutely the media influence..these little comments are neither intended to be fulsome nor as triggers …the video did it’s job by causing some to reflect, and that’s enough
Nothing new there there where 200 black dutch suriname soldiers during the dutch invasion / glorious revolution in britain .
There are paintings of HMS Victory with Black Guys in the crew
1 in a thousand is not substantial especially with the fact that the British empire was across the world.
I guess it not about numbers it’s about real people, I’m black guy. When I think of any war. I first say to myself these are real men, with individual stories. Leaving out a black man that was in a regiment will distort the truth of the story when told on big screens. So little black boys grew up in all white societies thinking they not included in the big stories. Showing a white trumpeter in a film when in fact that person was a black man is a disservice. Maybe because you it hard for you to see it from a black persona position . Just try to switch things around in your head. I’m a historian myself and l love that these guys has spend a lot of time researching this. For the families it is gold. We should never minimise the role of any soldier. Recently I watch the Rise of the Ottomans, they didn’t show one black man, when it fact black men weee there at the fall of Constantinople and black men played the kettle drums, that why the British made it fashionable. Africans being very good when it comes to drums. But through our history major armies have employed black men, include Persia. America civil war has many greats of black man in service. At the end of the day just tell the truth about everybody wether the black or white.
Im not taking away racist. But, was it actually different with whites. The Irish scots do the same. Like no english were not treated bad. Come on man.
Let us not be woke.
I respect all men who have worn the uniform of my country mate. Nothing woke about it, just drawing attention to an interesting and under-researched aspect of the Napoleonic wars. Full respect to these men 👍
You'd think "historians" wouldn't place modern word sensibilities on to the people of the past.
The so-called "n-word" would have been used at times no differently to saying "black" today.
Im sure they would have said it mate and i try niot to judge them for it but it doesn't mean I need to repeat it in a podcast for the modern day.
Africans not "black".
How do we get all these lads and lasses recognition. How do we promote their story?
I think this is how we start mate. Just share the video and discuss with friends and family.
I am very sad to see you falling into this left wing, anti British crap mate.
Hi mate - that's a real shame you feel that way as I've always enjoyed our interaction. I love and respect all our soldiers and our military history regardless of colour or nationality. Keep in touch mate as I'll be sad to see you go.
@99IronDuke
the culture being force fed is affecting even normal people
Not fair.
secole was not a nurse, she was a hostel keeper
FYI Christian.. Mary Seacole - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Seacole