If you catch yourself saying "I have no friends and am lonely...I have a boyfriend/girlfriend", it's time to ask yourself "is this relationship toxic". Along with the possibility that the lack of friends is caused by the partner isolating you, you should be wondering why you don't you see your partner as an uniquely close friend. Why do you feel lonely in their company?
Loneliness, male or female, can be healed by friendship in the first place. If you are socially unable to build solid friendship ties, then romance won't help, it will just desorganise your life.
the strange part is that there are people who deserve no love but still get love, and then there are people who deserve to be loved but get no love. الموضوع ارزاق في النهاية.
Genuinely I simply don’t understand how you can compare the experience of being lonely and having a boyfriend and having options to easily get another boyfriend , compared to being lonely and having no options for a partner. do u not think there is a difference? I am confused I feel like men and women are talking about 2 different things when it comes to loneliness
When it comes to issues where women clearly have it much harder than man like SA, we can very easily point that out and it’s necessary to point that out because the group that has it harder with an issue needs to do different things and needs different help than the other groups. It’s really hard for us to acknowledge the issues where men have it harder than women
It’s impossible for women to understand and that’s why they keep misinterpreting loneliness because they don’t actually know what it is. Their version of loneliness isn’t actually loneliness it’s not having the guys they want, when real loneliness is literally having nobody. Male loneliness is real loneliness.
That can happen to men too, but thats just a different topic altogether, of course women can be lonely but you cant deny male loneliness is not an epidemic @@shans1986
@@jayservices9692 have you ever considered the fact that all women dont automatically get swarmed by men? not that that type of attention is socially fulfilling either, but I hate when men seem to forget that especially among unconventionally attractive girls or women its the same experience of having no romantic relationships or even barely any friendships. sure overall this is a bigger issue for men, but can we please acknowledge that men cant claim the experience of loneliness all for themselves? lol
I agree with the message of this video, I noticed a profound difference in the friendships I have with my female friends and male friends (speaking in general of course as I do have outliers in each group). In the female friendships we often have more vulnerable conversations about issues we face as well as insecurities, and it’s similar to conversations I would only have with a partner. The male version of this also exists too but manifests a bit differently, in more of a brotherhood pov. I believe the focus of male loneliness shouldn’t focus on sex and women. It should focus on our relationships and general life outlook.
the reality is that most will either fail or settle for someone. it will rarely be ideal, and will often be the opposite of ideal. the 'individual' is irrelevant to nature. on average women will always have easier access to sex, but they will still crumble under many other factors that may not be of concern to men. one thing worth critizing women over is the common assumption that women have universal empathy, unlike men, while in reality it is much more selective and limited.
As a woman who has experienced profound and hellish loneliness, isolation and friendlessness, I just find this conversation so exhausting, but I like your channel so I'll comment. I've still never dated and I'm in my mid 20s, but what brought me out of this loneliness was not dating, it was learning to be vulnerable with people, learning emotional intimacy with myself, investing in building strong friendships, getting a good therapist who understood ways in which i had been marginalised growing up, spending less time indoors in front of my screen, helping others in my community (which made me feel valued and a part of something). I've grown up a lot in the past few years and I now have reached a place where I can see the fruits of my labour. I feel really loved and valued by my friends and I finally understand what real love and care for another person is. I'm finally able to be authentic with people and I'm able to help others who struggled the way I struggled. I feel sorry for my teenage self who thought that all I needed to solve the way I felt was to get a romantic partner. I know so many women who go through deep loneliness and isolation and I know so many women who absorb the pain, stress and trauma of the men in their lives who don't seek actual constructive help in learning to connect, heal and be vunerable with others and it leaves these women exhausted and broken. I could write so much more about how these types of men would rather blame women for their issued than the inherant alienation that comes with capitalism but I need to get on with my day. Love your videos btw❤
As a guy who was ghosted countless times after it became obvious that I just want to be friends and nothing more, I can confirm that girls aren't any less entitled to love
all humans whi are capable of beinv a good friend are entitped to love. I never said entitled to a spouse. I said entitlted to love. Humans are social creatures. We all need friends who give us love so that we can give them love and that we can then combine our love to show the world what fdriendship and love are....however...many men dont ever experience these friends or friendships sadly...oh well... i guess... :/
It's scary how easy it is to avoid life. Im in my mid 30s. Always been alone. It's been sharply painful every moment. I dont think im entitled to someone, but i do know i cant keep going much longer alone.
@arec9581 I feel like if something was going to happen, it would have happened by now. Part of me is afraid of getting better because it would amplify regrets. I'd think "I could have lived this way all this time?" And my wasted youth would hurt more.
@@Tesla_Death_Ray the only suffering you can feel is right now in the present moment, by how much you think something sucks. You lived through what you perceive is horrible, but your still alive and well enough to change, so like why not. healthygamergg videos help alot, he has videos on regret/starting late
You are entitled to love. The woman in this video has been hurt at some point in her life and is projecting the idea of contingent love. Every human being is entitled to non-contingent love. I hate that I have to make this caveat, but of course that doesn't mean you are entitled to any particular person's body, or time, or attention. But you, as a human being, are absolutely deserving of love, just because you exist.
It's specially sad when women are blamed for men's lonliness, plus blame won't solve anything. Just as men have standards, women also can and do have standards. I don't think it is because women's standard is high, but it might be because men can't meet them due to different issues. Maybe I have these opinons b/c I didn't grow up in the west and so maybe the cultural differences maybe had an impact on my perspective.
If around 90 percent of men can't meet the standards then clearly the standard is too high. And it's not to blame on the women, it the way society evolved with Instagram and tinder.
Well the standards are high, when you are expected to be more successful than the woman. That's quite unrealistic as having financial success is most of the times out of your control entirely. and depends highly on your culture and environment.
There’s a lot of misogyny coming from the manosphere but women are not blamed for men’s loneliness. We blame structural causes for women’s issues and blame the individual men for men’s issues in general. Women are not blamed for men’s issues and we can’t really blame women for anything in polite. Just as men have standards? Men really don’t in anyway that looks like women’s standards, especially when for lonely men, you actually have to have some options in order to have standards.
@@minabotieso6944 Nobody cares about politeness. And whether or not the issues ever get to be addressed, means that the issues between broads, will one day be settled by Blokes with using Wiolence against broads.
17:45 I think this is the impasse. I think society wants women to want romance more (and women don’t want it) and society wants men to want friendship more (and we don’t want it).
@RomCh-ek7wr well I think they do want friendship with dudes, but that friendship is exploitative because it’s effectively the friend zone. I feel that they either know or refuse to accept that more friendships (without sex) would leave men dissatisfied but don’t care and that feels exploitative to me. I really enjoy Patrice O’Neal’s descriptions of this topic, the black doctor Phil is hilarious hahaha. No doubt, I actually like Schopenhauer more then Nietzsche these days. I’m really a nihilist unfortunately and just have this picture of Nietzsche from years and years ago haha
@RomCh-ek7wr I don’t even think I’m looking for an unconditional love, just transactional love on fairer terms. I’m not looking for a wife necessarily atm but I’d love some women to date. Maybe later I’d like an unconditional love haha
@KazuhiraMiller-e4z GGGGGRRRRIIIIFFFFIIIITTTTHHHHH!!!! I think you’re right, but I think men do the same thing in that they lead women on by pretending they’re friends or pretending that they want a relationship.
I had to basically fight my friend J. to become more involved with my girlfriends, and although I could tell he was lonely and deeply struggling, he had an extremely hard time opening up about that. He comes in and out of our lives frequently, but we always love having him there. We love and value him. But he has a hard time being a regular presence to connect with, despite our efforts. I wish he was around more. My brother also never leaves his room, only when his three best friends since elementary school invite him out. Now that his friends are moving to different life stages (getting married, etc.), he's not connecting with them nearly as much. I really would like to see the male population actually DO something about this loneliness. Make an effort without giving up immediately if the results weren't perfect. Like my friend Kate said, "I don't care about your past. It's horrible and I'm glad you understand how it effects you, but you're still hurting. When you hurt, I hurt too because I care about you. So what are you going to do about it?"
I think that it boils down to no one really cares. We each have our own lives and differents paths we have to go through doesn't matter if you are a woman or man
I believe a lot of it comes down to purpose. We compare ourselves to everyone else constantly. We've moved from a community-based society, to a free-for-all. I also believe we are just maladapted to the modern way of living. Having the same expectations of life pre-internet era now, is not a good strategy. Before we only knew the people in our towns, and we had many more cultural / religious expectations to fulfil. Now in western society none of that exists. You can lose a potential partner because they enter a long-distance relationship with someone on the other side of the globe. So if all expectations / standards are gone, and women make their own money, what's left? It's fight club. "We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war; our Great Depression is our lives." We need to create our own Great War, but that's too much work for most men. It's easier to complain about our lives than to do anything about it, because there's no incentive. It's no one fault, I just believe that no one could ever keep up with the rate of development of our modern society. Furthermore, I also believe that the bottom of the barrel screams louder than the rest of us combined.
Great points and explanations behind them. She doesn’t get it. I would only add we need to stop talking about this in terms of individual responsibility. It’s useless. In the video she talks about an individual being deserved a relationship, you talk about it being no one’s fault. None of that matters, this is a societal issue with societal causes and needs societal solutions.
I agree with most of this. But again it doesn't account for the overrepresentation of loneliness and unhappyness by being partnerless that men experience as opposed to women. It's no individuals fault I agree, but the specifics beg to be examined I think. So we can build better systems etc.
@@celine_mariebut you do leave all of this up to the individual men. Our society refuses to hold women accountable for anything. This is women’s society and world too. Women talking about this issue don’t care about the issues of a shrinking and aging population, solved by more relationships and people having children. The conclusion that it’s ok that women just don’t like men and won’t be with them in the future even more is not sustainable.
@@minabotieso6944 Individual responsability is crucial, but you need to recognize you are who you are because of the environment around you, yet the existence of the environment depends on each individual.
They dont start wars they start blaming women instead and being violent to tehm😂 im glad we can experience the nature of men. Men are losers honestly, learn compassion and emotions, you will be happier. Men dont deserve anything because you are not able to create love, with nothing. Women are
Most people aren't saying that women shouldn't have agency, that men are "entitled" to a woman's love, or that women don't have the right to not date/marry men. "True love" is meaningless. It's just a strong emotional connection. What we want is to structure society in such a way that incentivizes people to be able to love each other and enter healthy relationships. And I think the main issue is that right now, those incentives aren't in place as much as they should be. I think to frame men's loneliness as "entitlement" is missing the point and a bit callous. And by "patriarchy," are you just talking about gender norms?
She's probably the kind of person who watches a video like 50 female privileges by Dr Shaym and simply comes to the conclusion that everyone in the comments is a sad lonely entitled misogynist
What are the proposed solutions to this systemic issue? I understand the arguments but I have never seen a healthy discussion on good solutions that would work for all participants.
@@hyperfocus94 I think that in history, people were much more community-oriented. People lived in smaller communities where most people knew each other. People were also more likely to gather for community-based activities (most commonly religious activities) which promoted social interaction. This made it easier for people to meet others and form friendships and relationships. Nowadays, society is much less religious. People have less social interaction. Many people just stay home and use the internet. Now we're seeing a phenomenon of isolation and loneliness. I'm an atheist. I think organizing social interaction around religion is a bad idea. But I do think religion played an important role in social interaction. I think we need a secular-based way to promote social interaction. I also think loneliness needs to be less stigmatized. We need to have some sort of social system where "lonely" people have a way to easily access social interaction with those who are looking for it. Idk if this is a problem that can be fixed via social policy. Our tendency is always to look for the government to come up with some solution to fix our problems. But I think this is a cultural issue that we need to tackle as members of society. Idk if there's some governmental way to address this issue.
@@hyperfocus94there’s no healthy discussion about solutions for men because only the problematic voices meet men where they are at and any voices openly nice to men are labelled problematic. Even Dr. L from healthygamer has fallen in controversy for his just meager advocacy for men. The healthy voices only focus on men being bad.
@@hyperfocus94”would work for all participants” we have to be able to criticize women and yeah women will be inconvenienced by transitioning our society as there was inconvenience during feminism and other movements. The first solution is to raise awareness for men’s problems like we are doing more of now and doing so with empathy. This video is an example of strawman and little empathy. There is so much friction around giving empathy to struggling men in our society. Feminism has been able to meaningfully weaken patriarchy where it advantages men and disadvantages women but the reverse where women are advantaged and men are disadvantaged is as strong as ever. That’s a mismatch that can’t work. We need to further get rid of the rest of patriarchy. Examples. Women are inherently valuable while men are worthless. Women are inherently innocent and good while the world is cold to men and men are inherently predators. Women expect a lot from men and society while men have to work to meet the expectations of women and society
I live in Sweden. I´ve only been in love for real once. I need my space. I get stressed having someone around me. I mostly care about dogs and the animal bond. I have always been a creative person, both introvert and extrovert. I used to have a lot of friends. I played in bands, did art. Now i live very lonely. My sister died 3 years ago in cancer and i lost my dog fiend this week so i have been crying for 6 days and drinking for 3 days. 2 of my friends have done suicide. To be honest i long for to die. Every day is a fight. I live one day at the time. Recently i started to find all those videos on youtube where people say they are lonely. It´s so tragic and sad. The world is so sick. No one should be alone. We are social creatures and thrive living among others doing fun things.
Sending love to you ❤ it will be okay, life is just an experiment. Go for walk in the sun when you are ready and just smile at the sky. Listen to some lovely music and sit in your feelings and accept them gently. All the light to you
Ge inte upp, livet är så vackert och ibland glömmer vi bort det. För mig brukar det vackra och ljuva med livet, vår tillvaro, uppdagas för mig när jag förstår att ingenting skall tas för givet. Enkla saker som att någonting överhuvudtaget existerar, att väteatomen är balanserad och inte sönderfaller eller att citroner smakar surt. I vår inre reflektion över världen kan vi alltid se det vackra, ibland behöver vi bara koncentrera oss lite mer än andra gånger.
I can't comprehend how anyone like this can live with such little empathy, with such little capacity to think themselves out of their skin, like, not having the cognitive way to abstract themselves of their life and knowing that their version of reality, is that, just one of almost infinite other realities where not everyone is gifted to or just don't have the context to love. I really can't. Of course, male loneliness is way more complex that just blaming the other gender, that's for sure but hearing these takes... Damn. It's surreal at best. (Ironic. I see that lack of empathy does not make you lonely. Here is the example.)
The thing is they can talk about loneliness, but when it comes back to women and how women are suppose to "fix" them, it makes me want to puke. What about friends? Family?
Saying that men should not have the ideal of having a partner / wanting a partner is like saying "i hope everyone is enlightned". its also an ideal. If you dont want people having entitlement/an ideal, stop having an ideal about them......
Lies upon lies, this video goes to show only one thing. Women should not be making explanatory videos about men’s issues. Just as much men shouldn’t do about women.
You will experience love when you see your highest values present in another, and when they see that in you. Otherwise, you're generally just partnering on the basis of economics or sexual inclination.
Those guys need to walk! I think 20 km per day for at least 10 days should be a good start. People need movement, people need to be active and experience discovery to fight their inner demons and connect with the real world. Basically all they have to do is follow a track, then the physical activity + mental stimulation will lead to healthy introspection that will SOLVE most of their issues (and they will also make a lot of friends). The benefits of long distance walking are incredible! Don't believe me? Check out all those Compostela vlogs. Works for both men and women. Walking with an animal, like a donkey for example, is also EXTREMELY beneficial (like Robert Louis Stevenson) for people that need to work on emotional connection issues. So yeah, Americans reading this, come to France, come see the most incredible landscapes in the world and have fun walking ;) Ultreia!
There are guys who feel entitled but that's largely due to the previous generation - pretty much everyone got married, so it's this paradigm, faulty as it is, still prevails. Now these old customs are falling and no one is there to make men understand that things have changed, a lot. So there's a massive amount of confusion and pain and these men must now figure it out. That's life but new problems with no blue print. It's so sad to see both men and women have to trawl through all this shit without any guidance. It should be expected that outrage, sadness, confusion ends up being a byproduct at some point in a persons life.
I have never said women are not entitled as well. I specifically said it was an ungendered thing. I'm curious though. Why do you count how many people hit on you? Conducting a study?
@@jamad-y7m Yeah, this guy is lying. I am probably a couple of decades older than him, but I have never counted women "hitting" on me. I do not even count how many women I have slept with. I do know how many girlfriends I have had over the decades, which is 20 women.
Interesting. Women can definitely be entitled. I'm wondering what you consider as being "hit on". There is definitely a social idea in the US that women are the objects of sexual desire and men are the subjects of sexual desire. Maybe being bound into the role as the sexual subject bothers you and maybe you should explore.
Dear Celine Marie, you covered some very true points towards the end of your talk. Why on earth, did you choose this title for your video and did say what you said in the first 6 minutes of your video then?! As you pointed out male loneliness is a lack of connection, which is in my oppion at least partially true, why do you accuse men of feeling entitled to be loved or worse having a woman for sex? Every adult man knows that good sex and a loving relationship is about connection. The problem in romantic man and women relationships lies in my oppinion somewhere else: As a man you are doing constantly wrong because you can not be both, a high income provider and a overly sensitive family man. (and in addition care for yourself). The hypocrisy of women is that they don´t realize that they can choose whatever they want and a man can not. He has to be everything in this contradictory set of standards. I was also told by a female feminist friend that the patriarcy is hurting men too. Yes, probably, but the most fearsome defenders of patriarcy are women. Do you really think men choose those horrible jobs or working enviornments where you have to be emotionally numb to survive longer then two days because we like it? No, we do that because we have to provide otherwise our chances for a romantic relationship or a family are minimal. If a woman has to chose between a man with more personal qualities and a man with status and money, she will most likely choose the man with the money and status. (You may now say that she "loves" him, no she loves what he provides) At that point women are perpetuating patriarcy. I would love to be released from my patriarchal duties and be more vulnerable, emotional and take care for my children, but I am not. I am at a point where I just leave. I don´t see myself as a member of this society any more. I can deal with it, if a women tell me I have to earn 100k to be suitible for a relationship but this constant lying and gaslighting is unbareable for me. Women say they want equal rights. They miss that this also means equal responsibilities. And I am not willing to be a toy of their ever changing demands any more. Maybe you should immerse yourself into the topic that a man is always wrong. No matter what you do, you will fail a certain expectation. And while we are on it, you could also try to understand why a man always feels replaceable in a personal or societal/job enviornment. As I said at the beginning, you did mention a lot of valid points in the second half of your video, but you failed at noticing most of mens societal and mental challenges which also cause loneliness.
I doubt I will ever be in a relationship, I'm 46 and have never been on a date. However I'm not lonely anymore but I also have intimate friendships with men and more with women, I would say my closest friends are with women, we're not that super close but we share a lot. I'm happy with who I am but I don't think I will ever have the social status to date.
Bad partner ≠ loneliness Bad partner = abuse/bad choice Having no one = loneliness Humans are biologically programmed to be miserable if they cannot reproduce but this of course is not an excuse for unethical or illogical behavior. Talking to male friends will never be enough and women’s eventful urge to want children will never leave. But I do agree love is rare. Most people just mate they never love.
I think part of the issue is that men aren’t taught how to talk about their emotions, or when they are, how to discuss them with other men. For women, two close friends will sit together, sometimes over a beverage or meal, and casually chat about their lives and how they feel about varying subjects. For many men, this format of discussion doesn’t feel like a productive exercise. This may be because men view the world differently than women, and so the same tools to teach and build emotional maturity and management between men may not be the same methods that are effective for women. This is something I think is under-appreciated-we assume the strategies to teach emotional intelligence that work for women will also work for men, which may not necessarily be the case, and may be part of why so many men don’t volunteer for therapy, even if they acknowledge their faults.
Another point, what we call love is actually a misunderstanding. When regular, ordinary, average ppl get together due to their own lackings and limitations there has to be something emancipatory about it or it's just a crappy relationship, so what do average ppl do? Call it love, attempt to make it special. Love is a trick.
For me its simple. Women have a support system with friends and family. For some F-ing reason whenever men talk about loneliness they blame it on the women. The women is at fault for not liking them. This makes zero sense to me. I don't care if a women or man gets many partners or none at all, loneliness is an individual issue. Blaming it on dating is BS
What helps me as a male is to just act like my male friends are female friends sometimes. Just start talking about your emotions or more vulnerable things, and you both feel a sense of relief. the more your beans spill, the more THEIRS DO TOO. be confident. Its a game of earning respect and recognition with guys, and if you are confident and vulnerable, their beans will SPIIILLLLL. but if you are cringe and awkward, then they feel uncomfortable. But if your ccoOOLL about it, then they feel THEY need to be cool about it also. Its like you break the system of masculinity by being competitively vulnerable and will eventually reach a point where the cool guy mask wears off (and you kiss each other, mwamwamwamwah! {just KIDDING}) and you have deeper more better connection. which means you both can talk about deeper more meaningful things aND WILLL feel less inclined to blame OTHER PEOPLE FOR YOUR OWN SUFFERING
2:00 I don’t think lonely men feel entitled to love, I think we feel entitled to trying to find love and to dating/experimentation/sexuality which is a lot more reasonable. Should one really believe they they’re not entitled to at least some sex and dating at some point in their life?
No one is entitled to sex or love because it requires someone else (in your case a woman/women) to engage with you sexually and romantically. No one should have to engage with someone in an intime way if they don’t want to; so no, we aren’t entitled to sex or romantic love.
nobody is entitled to those things...also, since you are dealing with humans not inanimate objects, it implies that someone MUST be at the receiving end
@@ohnoohnono that doesn’t make sense within our current society. Someone is on the other end of every entitlement and we regularly say we’re entitled to many things (by that I mean we agree that society is wronging those who aren’t provided with these things). For instance, in our society we are entitled to food, water, often times housing, basic education, many say we should even be entitled to medical care and higher education. We’re also entitled to fair treatment/non-discrimination, we have whole lists of enumerated rights and entitlements to participate in government, etc. why then should sex and romance be separate from this? By that I mean, why can’t someone who lacks sexual and romantic options not say “society is failing to provide me something which I ought to be due as a member” when so many other people in similar situations (that impinge on others) can?
@@DeathSquared7 because it is indeed not food, shelter, education, safety but accessory.. In order to get that you need to enter another person's life and that depends on the singular person
@@ohnoohnono I think education and romance are probably equally important. I don’t think there are nearly as many suicides over not being able to get an education as there are over lack of romantic options. That is one of the aspects that make me think education is more of an accessory then romance. I see how it depends on an individual person but it’s also depend on large scale societal factors like everything. Also, groups are just clusters of individuals. For instance, if you want racial equality you have to force things onto individual racists.
4:25 this is fucking incomprehensible to me. It’s not that I expect women to date me cause of anything, it’s that I expect women to want me they way I want them
I think that you two are responding to two different concepts. She’s addressing the anger and frustration that comes from men who are lonely, that suggest that it’s somehow women’s fault that men are experiencing loneliness, because those same women aren’t willing to date them.
@@bluerain1719 I listened to what she said again and she’s saying that women don’t want to date average men cause heterosexual relationships are more beneficial for men then women. I guess I have to think about that awhile.
For women, loneliness and depression are always a temporary and optional thing and entirely situational as was the case for you, but in almost all cases there is an option there for things to get better and they always do. Men on the other hand, being lonely and depressed is just a part of our condition and we are moulded by it, it is not just an option or a temporary thing but a fact of life and we are often told to just suck it up because society doesn't give a shit about us. It's not a matter of entitlement but acknowledgement that our lives have little value in the eyes of most people, yes you had a boyfriend and were still incredibly lonely but that is not what men talk about when we are discussing loneliness, women have stronger support networks and men commit suicide at far higher rate for a reason and it is all linked to the facts I just outlined.
But all humans need love it's a fundamental part of our survival without it we die saying someone is entitled to love is like saying a person is entitled to water it's a true because it's a need not a want this take comes from a place of privilege and lack of understanding it's like watching a white person say racism isn't that bad
There are no more male exclusive spaces. We can’t even have the Boy Scouts be only for boys anymore. Plus, it’s hard to make friends as an adult with working constantly. The best solution would be to join a club for something you like or a gym that gets you around other dudes who you can talk to and form a friendship.
1:16 as a man, no man will even know what it feels like to watch over your shoulder all day everyday for you whole life from potential violence though, LOL
Interesting video but I think you get something fundamentally wrong, which is not surprising, as you as a women trying to understand how men feel about sex, is like a rich person trying to understand how a poor person feels about money. If you have enough, by that I mean, if you know you could always have sex, when you want to, you dont really feel the need for it, but if you always struggle to get it, you want it even more. And the other part is, that as a man, sex gives me much more than pleasure, it gives me reasurence, worth, acceptance, a feeling of being good enough and having sex takes away the feeling of lonelyness. For women there are probably different actions that give them these feelings, like a friend or partner listening to them or giving them presents or sth like that. For the video you made about feeling lonely, while having a boyfriend. For the lonely men it is like it is for a person of a third world country hearing a poor person in a first world country moaning about being poor. Of course this person can be poor and has big problems, but they are just in another dimension. A person from a third world country would say, why do you have to be hungry, there a doves on the street, eat them, while in the first world country we would never do that.
hi, issue with sex and veiw about is like this, imagine if roles were reversed and you as boy have hard time to climax and girls have it easier. Now imagine if you get aroused and everything and she is done before you and then went sleep. Now you are left what? .. now you have dilema wake her up and she will be angry with your demands or do it yourself. This si how a lot of guys view sex just do the deed and be done with that. It should be in different way first take care of her and then think about your climax if it comes with it great. If you find good partner she would think same and then all its fairy tale. what im saying is that this individualism when i need it so i want it is killing sex as whole idea.
Women want connection/emotional intelligence and it is scarce to find in a man. While a man thinks women being able to get sex whenever she want is important to women. As a man thats why you don't understand how a woman can be lonely it's b/c we don't need sex like that. Women try to manipulate men to be more "caring" by using sex and it doesn't work because women are delusional about the male species as a whole. Most women are looking for a man to have a mind like a woman in a male body. Also men are very visual and there are a lot of women that are ignored because of outside apperances. Men if they get desperate will hump anything but those women are not getting men wanting long term commitment or marriage proposals.
As a man I find your views pathetic. It's weird to me that you might not realise how if you need sex to feel reassured and accepted then you have deep psychological issues. It might seem weird, but take it from someone who has experienced it, having sex with a woman won't make you feel better about your life. If you can't feel satisfied by yourself then you are not a real man. You can't depend on a woman's pussy to get your self worth. Are you really that brittle? I've personally enriched my life with so many things such as the arts, .y career that I love, friends and nature that I don't really believe women have anything to offer me anymore. If you gave up on your expectations and focused on what aspects of your life are dependent on yourself and not other people you would feel much better. This dependency men have on sex to feel like they are worth it is what makes us weak.
the flip side of entitlement is that which they are to commit to, without the commitment one is willing to give, no one is entitled to anything, except perhaps the most basic of things like food and water and at most a shelter, regardless of how traditional or liberal the relationship dynamic is, it still comes with one willingly being involved in such a relationship, and how and whether it turns into something as love is but negotiation between the two of them, and if both parties have all they ever need provided by the society, such as food and water and basic income, incentive to get into a relationship drops, even when the split is 50/50 unlike traditional ones where things like housework is mostly done by women in the household, and likewise they had to rely on having a husband to have a place in the society and to survive without being a prostitute
It's so exhausting for women to always bring up andrew tate at the start of a conversation about men's issues. He's an online grifter that most men, especially older, have never even heard of. At this point I'm convinced it is women hate-watching and citing him that still necessitates he be part of the conversation. And I'm supposed to continue keeping an open mind about your observations and analysis of men's issues after you thought it somehow productive to feature him at the beginning of your video. Men don't listen to women's content in this style because it's insulting and alienating.
@aleksandrac9335 Older men need to be part of the conversation when speaking of men's issues. These are your elders, fathers, and grandfathers. If you don't care, your opinion is irrelevant.
@@aleksandrac9335 What about male suicide and deaths of despair? What about female loneliness? Is that not an issue as well? What a nasty thing to say. I truly hope you get better.
@@celine_mariesure that's ideal, imo that's too much to ask today. Also if you don't acknowledge yourself first no matter how much other people do you still won't be content with yourself, I think that may be one reason famous people commit suicide. If you get the right friends or partner they can help you acknowledge yourself though.
"Acknowledge yourself first" is often unrealistic. Many, many people have been traumatised or damaged in such a way that they need someone else to model what true empathy, and even love, looks like before they're able to do it for themselves.
/@Hemlocker completely agree. Humans are social creatures. We need acknowledgement that we csn get and then that we can give back to another human being or groups of hukan beings
@@jasonhaven7170 If you only knew how liberal and progressive I was... You seem like a left brained idiot who doesn't know how the natural laws of the world work
18:56 dude, who the hell hasn’t been taught how do express their emotions? I think that’s bullshit. I just don’t want more touching or more empathy with friends. Is it not ok not to want that?
It seems the society doesn't prepare men to have the emotional tools they need to foster connection beyond transaction. What emotional skills and logic that women are practically given, and debatably are more naturally attuned to, men sorely lack, but because even though socialisation is maladaptive it still produces profit, there is no motivation to address it. And if men truely innately lack emotional depth compared to women, they won't, I won't. I don't blame women for my social deficits, or felt entitled, because it seemed stupid to hold entitlements, I blame my deficits for my deficits, like autism, hereditary depression and alexithymia. It makes your explanation far more obvious. I'm glad someone said it, and didn't scapegoat anything. It's a shame most men probably collectively lack the social intelligence to figure it out themselves. I still don't really get it even though you just spelled it out. I know that because of my deficits I will probably never have any "real" connection, not even with my own mother, because I am touch averse and can't read social cues, because I lack the ability to empathise with any depth to myself (alexithymia) or others (maybe because've the double empathy problem), and this is likely exacerbated because I was socialised male. But at least this video can give me greater clarity and a female perspective which I have always made extra effort to value, because I don't get to here those as often, and all perspectives are useful. I am so sick of men blaming women for shit when we are all just human, pointlessly gendering everything when we are all just human. We divide ourselves from eachother, and learn to repress the self into a neat box, hiding everything that doesn't. And that is what is not only expected but aspired to. And the next generation will probably repaeat those mistakes, and the last friends i'll have will be the ones I made in primary school, which are fading fast, because they move on, and I don't, and I don't go anywhere or change anything like you said, and learned to expect rejection to the point where I developed RSD, because of the trauma from years of rejection, because I lack the ability to fit in, the rare occasion I meet people like me I hold disdain, or/ and envy of them, and they might of me. People say "find your tribe" but when I find them I think of eliminating them from the gene pool. My therapist told me I can express my own emotions quite well, and that is the cruel irony, that I do actually posses the language, from philosophical education and years of depressive rumination to say close to what I think & feel, but I can't change it, even after years of getting therapy, I just feel that the more cynical view is the truth, so I go with it. What is pessimistic to others are just accurate predictions that manifest regardless. Indecision is often all that stops me, but now I'll distract myself with another pointless bullshit video and try to forget it all again. maybe I shouldn't watch this stuff. I guess at least this comment will help with engagement or some shit so here you go...
I think your take on mens' loneliness is very confused; men have no issues establishing close friendships with other men - the issue is that they rely on infrastructure that is becoming ever more scarce, such as hobby clubs, organised team labour, neighbourhood ties, etc. The problem is that because of these becoming scarcer, men are lonelier - not that men are intriinsically less able to understand each other. At the same time systemic constraints tend to disregard the upholding of male-centric infrastructure to favour women-centric infrastructure for reasons that are obvious to everyone. This perspective fails spectacularly at addressing the fact that women are also increasingly unhappy, something that has been established years ago by a number of studies and that leads me to believe you have not reflected as much on this topics as you perhaps should have (of course, you are entitled to reflect on anything without being particularly informed, but this of course reflect on you). You can look at studies mentioning the Nordic Paradox, where it seems that past a certain degree of equalization of rights seem to get unhappier so to say; this inevitably is also tied to intersex relations. Additionally, all available data seems to show that even in advanced Western societies, women by far and large have less children than they would like, including childless women. So what does it all mean? It is not that men are "failing at relationships", it seems that women are also getting a bad deal overall too. Some of your suggestions are frankly bizarre, such as the idea that women being more conflictual in their friendships is somehow evidence that they are also more empathic (I would argue that in fact, men fight less because boundaries in male-male friendships are clearer and issues are more openly addressed before theyr reach critical stages). Your focus on "being in touch with one's feelings" also seems to imply that men should be more open about their own emotions, something that has been proposed countless times in feminist literature; then again, this proposition falls apart the moment you find out that the emotions that are more meaningful and identity-shaping for men are anger, courage and pride, much less so the typical "good" emotions.
>this proposition falls apart the moment you find out that the emotions that are more meaningful and identity-shaping for men are anger, courage and pride, much less so the typical "good" emotions. Why does it fall apart? The key is to learn to shape your angry, courageous and proud identity without hurting other people because hurting other people is no longer cool or acceptable. It's not feminists' job to figure out the shape of this new identity of men that would feel authentic and fulfilling. I see manosphere and the likes of Tate as just an unsuccessful "mutation" in the evolution of men's new identity. Women have to figure out their new identity too as the world changed and the values we were taught are no longer relevant to our survival and happiness.
@@hyperfocus94you skipped over a bunch of great points like that women are getting more unhappy and dissatisfied with their relationships even as they do better in society. Young women make more money than most young men. Dr. K on healthygamer has talked a lot in multiple videos about us asking people to express their emotions but only the good emotions.
1. The loss of social infrastructure is important I think as well in explaining why people are more and more lonely. That does not explain the male specific outliers though, so it goes under for me what i consider general loneliness factors. I am not sure what you mean when you say we are favouring "women-centric infrastructure". 2. and 3. I am well aware that women are also more unhappy and I think its very important to talk about. And the "paradox" that having all your physical needs met have been shown to not necessarily equate just eternal bliss as we mightve thought previously. However, again this is general and another topic entirely. But one I find interesting nonetheless. If you are making the argument that women were happier when they were forced to marry a man and had no autonomy I'm not sure how to even have that convo.. Obviously an individuals freedom comes above any study about what makes them happier. Women are still free to chose to be "tradwives" if they please, so there shouldnt be a problem on that front. 4. This might sound "bizarre" to you but it's not strange in current litterature exploring the subject. If you want to read more I suggest a paper called "Sex (similarities and) differences in friendship jealousy" by Jaimie Arona Krems et al. I believe it might be fun. 5. Those emotions are probably identity shapers indeed, that doesn't sound surprising to me. I'd love to see some source or literature on this though? If you have any. However this could again be interpreted as a result of patriarchal conditioning. Also, whatever emotions you identify is still considered emoting. I'm not sure why you think "less good emotions" wouldnt be considered important and a part of what the "feminists" are talking about. Hope that answered it all? haha:-)
@@hyperfocus94it seems there is no place for men in a truly feminist world, cause otherwise we would have found a solution for men by now, it’s been how many years
@@LondonMoneyCashEnterprise feminists are not looking for solutions "for men", and the world is not feminist, despite these many years of effort, we'll see what the future holds.
I would say it has to do with men struggling with talking with others and asking for help due to fear of looking weaker and not reliable. Hence men are more inclined to philosophy to try and internally solve their problem on their own.
Because for a man, you are not born with intrinsic value or a purpose for existing, nobody wants you beyond what you are capable of providing and being useful for.
I do not approve of Tate as a person but the clip you showed is an important message. Many men are genuinely struggling. His very last point, about men ending themselves, comes with a high statistic relative to women. 3 men for every women. It gets so dark for many men where that's there escape from it. I encourage you to really think about that and how you have glossed over the seriousness of what men are facing and how they feel. I admire you and what you are doing on here, and agree with a lot of the rest of the video. Not everything, but I just want to post a comment that focuses on how compassion amd empathy for this very real problem is part of the solution.
Why would you think I gloss over the subject? I've dedicated a 20 min video to considering it with a lot of empathy and constructive advice. I'm not sure what makes you think I don't think its important given the context.
@@celine_marie Because I don't see or feel it from this video. I looked for it and wanted to see it, but I didn't. Talking about something at length isn't a display of empathy itself. It's about what and how you talk about the subject. I think the advice that men should seek meaningful friendships is good advice, but the focus on the entitlement stuff is offputting. I wouldn't lead with that if someone told me they were lonely and would like a relationship. It's hurtful and it's an assumptious and not leading with compassion. Most struggling with loneliness aren't entitled to love.
@@celine_marieI don’t see the empathy in stating that men believe they are entitled to a relationship. They want a relationship very badly but they don’t think that and in any case being starved of relationships and human contact makes people a little insane and irrational. I don’t see the empathy in using the most extreme manosphere voices to represent the positions of lonely men. We talk about anything and anyone that is pro man as toxic and problematic
Women seem to take offense of the idea that men have needs, it almost seems like a man who needs something automatically disqualifies him from respect in womens eyes, and makes him seem infantile, this entitlement thing seems to not be present when she discusses hypergamy which is essentially entitlement to the extreme, its not romantic love that is important in this case for men it is the chance of romantic love which as a result of womenzlibz it has been reserved for a smaller group of men leaving others to starve. Its fkd up we think we freed women but really weve doomed them and men without realizing it.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, but I want to offer a different perspective based on personal experience. My mother was diagnosed with bipolar disorder when I was 9, and despite countless treatments-therapies, hospitalizations, ECT, medications-she attempted suicide several times before ultimately succeeding about 15 years after her diagnosis. In the months leading up to her death, she went through a severe manic episode. We, her loved ones, were extremely concerned and reached out to numerous doctors and professionals, begging for intervention, even suggesting involuntary treatment. The answer was always the same: they couldn't act unless there was sufficient legal justification, and her autonomy couldn't be overridden. Mental illness runs deep in my family-her grandmother also likely had bipolar disorder. So, when I hear comments like yours, focusing on men’s higher suicide rates and implying that discussing women’s emotional support systems minimizes male struggles, it feels oversimplified and dismissive. The issue of suicide is incredibly complex. Mental health resources are stretched thin, some illnesses are untreatable, and we haven't yet found a way to prevent all suicides. If someone truly decides to take their own life, it's often impossible to stop them, even with support or intervention. Of course, loneliness among men is a valid concern and should be addressed, but reducing the conversation to just suicide rates ignores the full picture. The challenges with mental health-whether for men or women-are not just about empathy or loneliness but involve deep, systemic issues. It feels dismissive to reduce the broader, complex struggle to something like “men have it worse” when mental health issues affect so many people in so many ways.
i think they also don't realize that in history, not EVERYONE got married. Many people were indeed single. Most men fully understand that they don't want a woman who wants to change them. But then can't understand why a woman wouldn't want to make herself smaller to be with a man. I'm 34 and settling is just not an option. It's just not worth it to be with someone who isnt as smart as you, isnt helpful, isnt driven. when youre in a relationship like that and you get out, and do any kind of emotional healing work, you can never go back. the problem is many of them dont want to grow mentally and emotionally. its actually very strange.
I'm gonna say that to the male audience. Don't think that it is to blame girls for not liking you despite of you having good intentions and sometimes they rather being with bad types. It's the same with you. If you can pick a hot girl you don't even wanna know about that one that really likes you but that you find unatractive. Don't put yourself as a victim and get complaining about women. If you really want, you gotta sacrifice. Go on a diet. Go to the gym. Go get a nice hair cut. Take a treat of your beard. Study something not just you like but that can make you interesting. Learn about places that you can meet people that might like you. Don't think girls own you something because you were nice to them. Don't be some glued type of guy. Don't keep pushing something you see isn't going anywhere. People own you nothing. Get yourself interesting for others and your chances will grow. If you don't get nothing, just keep getting better and always keep in mind this: no one owns you nothing. If you are not willing to change your life to get what you want the most, you don't deserve it yet.
I also think it is way harder to make good friends than to get a girlfriend. Sadly most places were men got good friends in the past were the military, or friends with whom you shared great long term projects. I think men usually connect when cooperating with each other with a common goal. I don't think there are long lasting friendships without having had such an opportunity when you were at highschool. Girls can connect with each other just by talking about meaningless and mundane stuff. I think it is a talent to connect with others just for the sake of it.
I wanna thank the newest comments for saving me about 21 minutes of gaslighting and blaming. You are part of the problem here and as always with out fail of course you blame the men for the problem that isn’t their fault.
as some others already expressed. a lot of great points have been raised. I have to admit however that the framing of 'men's entitlement' does rub me a bit the wrong way. it seems to me that entitlement is a rather loaded term, something accusatory about it. you could say that it's quiet challenging to empathize and connect with somebody they experience as being entitled. maybe similar to the guys from the past video that seemed to strongly reject somebody that saw as being entitled. that being said I'd see it too often that people confuse their desires for covert expectations. people really do got to humble themselves,, for their own good. we also need more hope and a less atomized culture (imo it's less about "patriarchy" and more so about individualism) or that's at least what I think what do y'all think?
And it’s just not true that men feel they are entitled to a relationship. Yes there is a societal expectation that men find a women and men really want one but they don’t feel entitled unless you go to the most extreme and dumbest possible people ever like she does in the video (while she uses philosophers to discuss her side of the argument. I’m not saying whatabout women; in comparison to women, women talk a lot about their expectations of men, even of just men in general. Men at the very least feel less entitled to good treatment from the opposite sex and relationships than women. At the end of the day we need people to have relationships for society to keep functioning and continue. She doesn’t really care about that
I made it clear that when speaking about entitlement, I was not simply referring to a "male" entitlement, but a general one. Yes, the term is loaded. And fitting, I believe. Atomization and individualism and a capitalist structure of society is important as well, however, patriarchy is considered a foundational tool for Capitalism today. And because of that, its important to examine how we perceive gender to see how its used as a tool for oppression. It is used, by the way, as a tool of oppression for both women and men but in different ways. This is not a "gender war," however as a man it can be harder to acknowledge some of the privileges the currents systems grant you just as it can be challenging for white European people to do the same in a racist context. And I guess it requires, on some level to feel a bit uncomfortable. Entitlement is inherent in systems of oppression. Wealthy people feel entitled to the exploits of workers labor. Men feel entitled to womens bodies and free invisible labor (housework and emotional labor). And white euro people feel entitled to use and abuse other countries land and think our theories and art superior to others.
@@celine_marie If I understood you correctly. Both women and men are being oppressed through sex-specific gender norms opposed by the patriarchy. That being said men are in some way uniquely privileged in a way that women aren't. In extension, by living out their (often times unacknowledged) privileges, men oppress women. it seems to me that in this way male's loneliness is not the concern here but rather their oppression of women. I'm all for creating awareness for women's suffering. I think it's good to point out how one gender rather systematically causes the suffering of another's. I agree that on some level it can (you said require) make others feel uncomfortable, as people have to realize that they are doing something wrong. I think my point was -and thank you for helping me clarify this- that using such a loaded & accusatory term often times creates too many uncomfortable feelings. In this situation it's easier and very tempting to reject those the statements of "this person that's attacking me", in order to protect one's sense of (affirmatively good) self. cathartic most definitely but I think sharing these statements which do come across as gender-war-y and lacking in empathy tends move the needle less for these "oppressed yes but especially privileged" viewers that being said I'm just a random comment, while it was you who put their thoughts out on a video. which gains my respect.
@@celine_mariethe cons of patriarchy for women (pros for average men) have been broken down to a meaningful degree. The cons of patriarchy for men (pros for women) are stronger than ever and your video talks about these exact pros that patriarchy gives women. Cons for women that are gone: Much more women go to university than men and now among young people in big cities, young women make more money than young men. Men don’t feel entitled to women’s housework. As the video discusses, men don’t even have women to do their housework. Men cant feel entitled to a women’s body or a relationship because reality hits them very quick that it isn’t that simple. Pros for women: women can still expect the men to be richer even though the economy sucks, the world treats men more coldly than women. You even mentioned that this is caused by patriarchy but apparently it’s men that have to check their privileges with patriarchy
@@celine_marie Could you explain how your pseudo-marxist views, which depend on labor-value theory, work in a world where a girl can make a bunch of money selling her bathwater?
Hey I really enjoy ur videos! But I didn’t understand when u said people r entitled to love.I honestly think people shouldn’t have to work hard to gain someone’s love and just existing as u are is enough
I get what you're saying cuz people are too damn jaded to even give a person a chance at having a connection The worst anybody can say is a no or ghosting
20:44 see that’s the real story. Women don’t want to date. That’s fine but then I don’t want to participate in society and I think a lotta young men feel that way and are doing that now. Women can choose not to date but it helps create doomers in a major way.
@@stk5536 I’m trying to understand women’s thoughts on this issue but I must respectfully disagree with part of what you’re saying. I agree that lack of third places, socialization, etc. are growing issues that are making people more lonely, but I also feel that there’s a unique difficulty being faced by young men pursuing heterosexual relationships. As a young man I feel and have felt that is simply way too difficult to get positive romantic attention (dates, sex, relationships) from women. I don’t want to list things but the dating app experience encapsulates this nicely. It’s extremely brutal and demoralizing. It seems that whenever men complain about this on the internet we’re told that we should focus on friendship or ourselves or whatever else. I think dates, sex, and romantic relationships are all valid things to want; and it feels that they’re withheld quite arbitrarily (think “ick’s”). What’s worse it feels that discussing the structural/societal aspects of this is taboo (economic incentives, etc.), when discussing the structural aspects of every other kind of oppression is quite normal. All this leads me to feel that it is women that are uniquely at fault or at least uniquely capable (and therefore responsible in some sense) to fix it. Can you empathize with my position?
@@stk5536 I think there is another way. Why can we not shift the dynamic between men and women such that women are attracted to a wider swath of men? The same way we’ve shifted women’s role such that things which would’ve been romantic/sexual death sentences before are far more widely accepted. For instance, women having tattoos, smoking, having jobs, not being virgins, etc. If we brought a man from 1890 he’d likely say he wouldn’t want a woman with any of those qualities but we’ve shifted that. Now those things are way less controversial. And I think we’ve done that by condemning those preferences. Can’t we do the same thing for men? For instance, we should treat women who say “I want a man who pays for things and takes care of me (in a non-mutual way) cause that’s being a man” the same way we treat men who say “I want a woman who knows her place”. We should condemn both as icky, oppressive views that hurt people. Might that eventually reduce this problem?
@@stk5536 it’s not just about being a provider, it’s about the whole male role having to do most of the work during the beginnings of relationships. How do you explain how difficult it is for young men to date?
@@stk5536 I experience it as something women are doing because none of those thing make me want to date less nor do they make it harder for a woman to get a date with me. It seems that these things are making women want to date less. It’s probably just that dating gets easier for men as we get older assuming we develop ourselves. That doesn’t feel fair to me and it creates enormous resentment but maybe that’s how it is (rather then being that women don’t want to date, it’s just that almost no one wants to date young men)?
@@stk5536 that’s the thing though, I think it’s women that want to meet people in person cause they want to be charmed cause without charm they don’t want to get to know a guy. That’s the fundamental imbalance I’m bothered by, I already want to get to know a woman without need of charm. I don’t mind traversing difficult interactions but it feels like women are barely interested if even that.
The present zeitgeist is the child begotten by the marriage between toxic masculinity based on power and pseudo feminism based on naivete. And oh boy the child has just been born recently.
@@lonelystupidwar we still have an idea about love which is more likely " romantic" but it's actually not the same . Our thoughts on love nowadays are just to suffer from one side love exc ... Just ask yourself is it love or just a myth
I hoped you would get to in the video but you didn’t that however individuals feel about what they need and deserve in life, whether they are reasonable or not or actually owed that or not) We live in a society and people are owed many things and need to give certain things for society to function. This is a societal issue not an individual issue. Nobody is owed anything in terms of nature and the universe but I would like society to continue. Individual men are not owed relationships but as a society we need people to be having relationships and kids so everything can function. You have probably heard of South Korea and Japan where things are not functioning because nobody is having kids and they are scrambling to fix it
I think it's time for our society to accept that traditional model of relationship and family is not sustainable and stop trying to recreate it. There are other models of reproduction, parenthood, parenting and families that do not involve forming a traditional man-woman couple.
@@hyperfocus94everyone has traditional minds and bodies. I’m not conservative but yes the traditional model is sustainable. It’s what has always sustained humans. I would like human society to continue and not like an AI robot one. Our current societal model of nobody having kids and supplementing the lack of population with immigrants is not sustainable. Those immigrants are coming from countries which are having a shrinking birth rate too. Women saying we don’t owe men anything is not sustainable. We have the tech for women to have kids without a man and if that was going to save us then it already would have. It has not saved us for many reasons. Clearly it’s too expensive to have a kid today. At the very least a shrinking population is very core to this issue and she doesn’t care about it. It hurts every corner of society.
I find that you need to be "a big enough man" to respect her right not to be interested in you, otherwise working on yourself for the next turn of the merry-go-round....... not taking your pleasant wish to be granted, predestined 🎠🎪🍰
@@celine_marie Also-emphasizing one’s self “maintaining strong boundaries” and not letting their temper “boil over” like black-slop in a kettle, on a heated stove. Thinking of that scene in Star Wars when Luke Skywalker faces down a circling trainer robot that zoots! him with mini-lasers as he holds up his lightsaber and blocks the irritating fire, kind of like an exercise of his fast-twitch impulses. Keep your head, keep your temper, keep up your good standing with others!! That would solve 95 percent “of your man-problem” right there……..
I think women in general recognize the individual humanity of each man. In my experience, I've felt a lack of recognition my many men that I'm also just human. I don't expect men to fit into a mold of masculinity. They are a mix of their experiences and culture and more. In regards to male sexual entitlement...for me it's about some men's attitude toward my body and sexuality as being a placeholder until they find their perfect match. I don't know women that look for a perfect match.
Yeah agreed All these lonely guys who are watching these videos r too dumb to realise that you were lonely in that video They couldve been like "yo I am in Norway too, let's hang" but nope
People used to fall in love and have children and now they don't so much. So something has changed, and that thing could be the end of us I guess. Also one correction, love definitely does come out of nowhere!
Did they fall in love more than people do today? Marriage has been an economic mechanism throughout the whole history of human civilization first and foremost.
@@hyperfocus94 Yeah I think people did fall in love more years ago . Something has changed. It's like people are less humble and naive, and more cynical. It's weird to look back on a past you remember and it seem quaint. (I'm 46 btw)
Good news:) Starting this year there are AI systems on the market that are very convincingly acting as (conversational) girlfriends. They can be configured to have a desired personality, profile, looks, etc. you can easily develop a deep relationship, fall in love, not feel alone anymore. This is an uncharted territory but at least it could save many men from desperation. Within 3-5 years these will be advanced to being truly indistinguishable from the real world. Then, maybe women like Celine who genuinely don’t see the need in getting involved in a relationship will be left alone. Maybe they could even sell their personality to be implemented by AI. Imagine talking to AI Celine whenever you feel like. The same goes for having interesting male friends.
when i was young i thought i would have a million dates and then get happily ever after. now it is as rare as a living donosaur. the scripture is fulfilled: mysterious indeed is the way of God (love?) between a man and a maid. forgot where that is in the bible. psalms?
No they are probably real people but in a reasonable healthy debate you should make the strongest argument for your opponent that you argue against (aka steelman) But she picks the dumbest most extreme people to represent the let’s help men side and she uses a philosopher to argue for her side
No they were pretty genuine from what I gathered. And sure we could consider Andrew Tate "extreme", but he is an extreme figure who has garnered a considerable large following who genuinely engaged with his ideas. So, I see no issue in using his ideas to represent a general sentiment. I didn't use any philosophers to argue any of my points in this video. I used deductive logic as well as my own general knowledge about gender issues which I've been studying for a bit now.
If you catch yourself saying "I have no friends and am lonely...I have a boyfriend/girlfriend", it's time to ask yourself "is this relationship toxic".
Along with the possibility that the lack of friends is caused by the partner isolating you, you should be wondering why you don't you see your partner as an uniquely close friend. Why do you feel lonely in their company?
@@anthonyfarrell7720 lol we both work 10+ hours a day friends aren’t really in the cards right now.
Loneliness, male or female, can be healed by friendship in the first place. If you are socially unable to build solid friendship ties, then romance won't help, it will just desorganise your life.
the strange part is that there are people who deserve no love but still get love, and then there are people who deserve to be loved but get no love. الموضوع ارزاق في النهاية.
I think this is a lot more true then a lot of people would admit.
completely agree.
Those chads who's literally evil just gets all the girls unlike the sub5 male who has genuinely good personality@@Tim_G_Bennett
Love is just given without baclthought of deserving.
People love you not because you deserve it but because they are loving souls in the first place.
Genuinely I simply don’t understand how you can compare the experience of being lonely and having a boyfriend and having options to easily get another boyfriend , compared to being lonely and having no options for a partner. do u not think there is a difference? I am confused I feel like men and women are talking about 2 different things when it comes to loneliness
When it comes to issues where women clearly have it much harder than man like SA, we can very easily point that out and it’s necessary to point that out because the group that has it harder with an issue needs to do different things and needs different help than the other groups. It’s really hard for us to acknowledge the issues where men have it harder than women
It’s impossible for women to understand and that’s why they keep misinterpreting loneliness because they don’t actually know what it is. Their version of loneliness isn’t actually loneliness it’s not having the guys they want, when real loneliness is literally having nobody. Male loneliness is real loneliness.
That can happen to men too, but thats just a different topic altogether, of course women can be lonely but you cant deny male loneliness is not an epidemic @@shans1986
@@jayservices9692 have you ever considered the fact that all women dont automatically get swarmed by men? not that that type of attention is socially fulfilling either, but I hate when men seem to forget that especially among unconventionally attractive girls or women its the same experience of having no romantic relationships or even barely any friendships. sure overall this is a bigger issue for men, but can we please acknowledge that men cant claim the experience of loneliness all for themselves? lol
@@alihomora1806 A 3/10 girl has higher SMV than a 7/10 guy
I agree with the message of this video, I noticed a profound difference in the friendships I have with my female friends and male friends (speaking in general of course as I do have outliers in each group). In the female friendships we often have more vulnerable conversations about issues we face as well as insecurities, and it’s similar to conversations I would only have with a partner.
The male version of this also exists too but manifests a bit differently, in more of a brotherhood pov.
I believe the focus of male loneliness shouldn’t focus on sex and women. It should focus on our relationships and general life outlook.
the reality is that most will either fail or settle for someone. it will rarely be ideal, and will often be the opposite of ideal. the 'individual' is irrelevant to nature. on average women will always have easier access to sex, but they will still crumble under many other factors that may not be of concern to men. one thing worth critizing women over is the common assumption that women have universal empathy, unlike men, while in reality it is much more selective and limited.
As a woman who has experienced profound and hellish loneliness, isolation and friendlessness, I just find this conversation so exhausting, but I like your channel so I'll comment.
I've still never dated and I'm in my mid 20s, but what brought me out of this loneliness was not dating, it was learning to be vulnerable with people, learning emotional intimacy with myself, investing in building strong friendships, getting a good therapist who understood ways in which i had been marginalised growing up, spending less time indoors in front of my screen, helping others in my community (which made me feel valued and a part of something).
I've grown up a lot in the past few years and I now have reached a place where I can see the fruits of my labour. I feel really loved and valued by my friends and I finally understand what real love and care for another person is. I'm finally able to be authentic with people and I'm able to help others who struggled the way I struggled. I feel sorry for my teenage self who thought that all I needed to solve the way I felt was to get a romantic partner.
I know so many women who go through deep loneliness and isolation and I know so many women who absorb the pain, stress and trauma of the men in their lives who don't seek actual constructive help in learning to connect, heal and be vunerable with others and it leaves these women exhausted and broken.
I could write so much more about how these types of men would rather blame women for their issued than the inherant alienation that comes with capitalism but I need to get on with my day.
Love your videos btw❤
As a guy who was ghosted countless times after it became obvious that I just want to be friends and nothing more, I can confirm that girls aren't any less entitled to love
Great job coming to a video about lonely men with no relationships to talk about men with relationships being the problem
ya I di agree that men need more friendships. specifically with otther men.
As a woman, I always felt lonely despite having many close female friends. Only being in a relationship with a man helped me feel less lonely.
''Entitlememt to love'' is wild... that's some S tier gaslighting
wait how is that gaslighting
Yeah, ” oh, so your feeling lonley and unloveble, stop being f**king entitled.”
Women have no empathy man
all humans whi are capable of beinv a good friend are entitped to love. I never said entitled to a spouse. I said entitlted to love. Humans are social creatures. We all need friends who give us love so that we can give them love and that we can then combine our love to show the world what fdriendship and love are....however...many men dont ever experience these friends or friendships sadly...oh well... i guess... :/
@@joozack2340 why do you think you deserve empathy?
Yes men are entiltled
Ive been watching videos for years about topics like this, you hit the nail on the head here on our dating generation and why its so confusing
It's scary how easy it is to avoid life. Im in my mid 30s. Always been alone. It's been sharply painful every moment.
I dont think im entitled to someone, but i do know i cant keep going much longer alone.
never too late :D
@arec9581 I feel like if something was going to happen, it would have happened by now. Part of me is afraid of getting better because it would amplify regrets. I'd think "I could have lived this way all this time?" And my wasted youth would hurt more.
@@Tesla_Death_Ray the only suffering you can feel is right now in the present moment, by how much you think something sucks. You lived through what you perceive is horrible, but your still alive and well enough to change, so like why not. healthygamergg videos help alot, he has videos on regret/starting late
@@Tesla_Death_Ray never too laaAAAaaaate
You are entitled to love. The woman in this video has been hurt at some point in her life and is projecting the idea of contingent love. Every human being is entitled to non-contingent love.
I hate that I have to make this caveat, but of course that doesn't mean you are entitled to any particular person's body, or time, or attention. But you, as a human being, are absolutely deserving of love, just because you exist.
It's specially sad when women are blamed for men's lonliness, plus blame won't solve anything. Just as men have standards, women also can and do have standards. I don't think it is because women's standard is high, but it might be because men can't meet them due to different issues. Maybe I have these opinons b/c I didn't grow up in the west and so maybe the cultural differences maybe had an impact on my perspective.
If around 90 percent of men can't meet the standards then clearly the standard is too high. And it's not to blame on the women, it the way society evolved with Instagram and tinder.
Nope, you're wrong. The problem is Vv0m3n.
Well the standards are high, when you are expected to be more successful than the woman. That's quite unrealistic as having financial success is most of the times out of your control entirely. and depends highly on your culture and environment.
There’s a lot of misogyny coming from the manosphere but women are not blamed for men’s loneliness. We blame structural causes for women’s issues and blame the individual men for men’s issues in general. Women are not blamed for men’s issues and we can’t really blame women for anything in polite.
Just as men have standards? Men really don’t in anyway that looks like women’s standards, especially when for lonely men, you actually have to have some options in order to have standards.
@@minabotieso6944 Nobody cares about politeness. And whether or not the issues ever get to be addressed, means that the issues between broads, will one day be settled by Blokes with using Wiolence against broads.
17:45 I think this is the impasse. I think society wants women to want romance more (and women don’t want it) and society wants men to want friendship more (and we don’t want it).
@RomCh-ek7wr well I think they do want friendship with dudes, but that friendship is exploitative because it’s effectively the friend zone. I feel that they either know or refuse to accept that more friendships (without sex) would leave men dissatisfied but don’t care and that feels exploitative to me. I really enjoy Patrice O’Neal’s descriptions of this topic, the black doctor Phil is hilarious hahaha.
No doubt, I actually like Schopenhauer more then Nietzsche these days. I’m really a nihilist unfortunately and just have this picture of Nietzsche from years and years ago haha
@RomCh-ek7wr I don’t even think I’m looking for an unconditional love, just transactional love on fairer terms. I’m not looking for a wife necessarily atm but I’d love some women to date.
Maybe later I’d like an unconditional love haha
@KazuhiraMiller-e4z GGGGGRRRRIIIIFFFFIIIITTTTHHHHH!!!!
I think you’re right, but I think men do the same thing in that they lead women on by pretending they’re friends or pretending that they want a relationship.
I had to basically fight my friend J. to become more involved with my girlfriends, and although I could tell he was lonely and deeply struggling, he had an extremely hard time opening up about that.
He comes in and out of our lives frequently, but we always love having him there. We love and value him. But he has a hard time being a regular presence to connect with, despite our efforts. I wish he was around more.
My brother also never leaves his room, only when his three best friends since elementary school invite him out. Now that his friends are moving to different life stages (getting married, etc.), he's not connecting with them nearly as much.
I really would like to see the male population actually DO something about this loneliness. Make an effort without giving up immediately if the results weren't perfect. Like my friend Kate said, "I don't care about your past. It's horrible and I'm glad you understand how it effects you, but you're still hurting. When you hurt, I hurt too because I care about you. So what are you going to do about it?"
I think that it boils down to no one really cares.
We each have our own lives and differents paths we have to go through doesn't matter if you are a woman or man
I believe a lot of it comes down to purpose. We compare ourselves to everyone else constantly. We've moved from a community-based society, to a free-for-all.
I also believe we are just maladapted to the modern way of living. Having the same expectations of life pre-internet era now, is not a good strategy.
Before we only knew the people in our towns, and we had many more cultural / religious expectations to fulfil. Now in western society none of that exists. You can lose a potential partner because they enter a long-distance relationship with someone on the other side of the globe.
So if all expectations / standards are gone, and women make their own money, what's left?
It's fight club. "We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war; our Great Depression is our lives."
We need to create our own Great War, but that's too much work for most men. It's easier to complain about our lives than to do anything about it, because there's no incentive.
It's no one fault, I just believe that no one could ever keep up with the rate of development of our modern society. Furthermore, I also believe that the bottom of the barrel screams louder than the rest of us combined.
Great points and explanations behind them. She doesn’t get it.
I would only add we need to stop talking about this in terms of individual responsibility. It’s useless. In the video she talks about an individual being deserved a relationship, you talk about it being no one’s fault.
None of that matters, this is a societal issue with societal causes and needs societal solutions.
I agree with most of this. But again it doesn't account for the overrepresentation of loneliness and unhappyness by being partnerless that men experience as opposed to women. It's no individuals fault I agree, but the specifics beg to be examined I think. So we can build better systems etc.
@@celine_mariebut you do leave all of this up to the individual men. Our society refuses to hold women accountable for anything. This is women’s society and world too.
Women talking about this issue don’t care about the issues of a shrinking and aging population, solved by more relationships and people having children. The conclusion that it’s ok that women just don’t like men and won’t be with them in the future even more is not sustainable.
@@minabotieso6944 Individual responsability is crucial, but you need to recognize you are who you are because of the environment around you, yet the existence of the environment depends on each individual.
They dont start wars they start blaming women instead and being violent to tehm😂 im glad we can experience the nature of men. Men are losers honestly, learn compassion and emotions, you will be happier. Men dont deserve anything because you are not able to create love, with nothing. Women are
Most people aren't saying that women shouldn't have agency, that men are "entitled" to a woman's love, or that women don't have the right to not date/marry men. "True love" is meaningless. It's just a strong emotional connection. What we want is to structure society in such a way that incentivizes people to be able to love each other and enter healthy relationships. And I think the main issue is that right now, those incentives aren't in place as much as they should be. I think to frame men's loneliness as "entitlement" is missing the point and a bit callous.
And by "patriarchy," are you just talking about gender norms?
She's probably the kind of person who watches a video like 50 female privileges by Dr Shaym and simply comes to the conclusion that everyone in the comments is a sad lonely entitled misogynist
What are the proposed solutions to this systemic issue? I understand the arguments but I have never seen a healthy discussion on good solutions that would work for all participants.
@@hyperfocus94 I think that in history, people were much more community-oriented. People lived in smaller communities where most people knew each other. People were also more likely to gather for community-based activities (most commonly religious activities) which promoted social interaction. This made it easier for people to meet others and form friendships and relationships. Nowadays, society is much less religious. People have less social interaction. Many people just stay home and use the internet. Now we're seeing a phenomenon of isolation and loneliness.
I'm an atheist. I think organizing social interaction around religion is a bad idea. But I do think religion played an important role in social interaction. I think we need a secular-based way to promote social interaction. I also think loneliness needs to be less stigmatized. We need to have some sort of social system where "lonely" people have a way to easily access social interaction with those who are looking for it.
Idk if this is a problem that can be fixed via social policy. Our tendency is always to look for the government to come up with some solution to fix our problems. But I think this is a cultural issue that we need to tackle as members of society. Idk if there's some governmental way to address this issue.
@@hyperfocus94there’s no healthy discussion about solutions for men because only the problematic voices meet men where they are at and any voices openly nice to men are labelled problematic. Even Dr. L from healthygamer has fallen in controversy for his just meager advocacy for men. The healthy voices only focus on men being bad.
@@hyperfocus94”would work for all participants” we have to be able to criticize women and yeah women will be inconvenienced by transitioning our society as there was inconvenience during feminism and other movements.
The first solution is to raise awareness for men’s problems like we are doing more of now and doing so with empathy. This video is an example of strawman and little empathy. There is so much friction around giving empathy to struggling men in our society.
Feminism has been able to meaningfully weaken patriarchy where it advantages men and disadvantages women but the reverse where women are advantaged and men are disadvantaged is as strong as ever. That’s a mismatch that can’t work. We need to further get rid of the rest of patriarchy.
Examples. Women are inherently valuable while men are worthless. Women are inherently innocent and good while the world is cold to men and men are inherently predators. Women expect a lot from men and society while men have to work to meet the expectations of women and society
I live in Sweden. I´ve only been in love for real once. I need my space. I get stressed having someone around me. I mostly care about dogs and the animal bond. I have always been a creative person, both introvert and extrovert. I used to have a lot of friends. I played in bands, did art. Now i live very lonely. My sister died 3 years ago in cancer and i lost my dog fiend this week so i have been crying for 6 days and drinking for 3 days. 2 of my friends have done suicide. To be honest i long for to die. Every day is a fight. I live one day at the time. Recently i started to find all those videos on youtube where people say they are lonely. It´s so tragic and sad. The world is so sick. No one should be alone. We are social creatures and thrive living among others doing fun things.
Sending love to you ❤ it will be okay, life is just an experiment. Go for walk in the sun when you are ready and just smile at the sky. Listen to some lovely music and sit in your feelings and accept them gently. All the light to you
@@thekajalflaneur Thank you. Sending my love too. Stay strong.
Ge inte upp, livet är så vackert och ibland glömmer vi bort det. För mig brukar det vackra och ljuva med livet, vår tillvaro, uppdagas för mig när jag förstår att ingenting skall tas för givet. Enkla saker som att någonting överhuvudtaget existerar, att väteatomen är balanserad och inte sönderfaller eller att citroner smakar surt. I vår inre reflektion över världen kan vi alltid se det vackra, ibland behöver vi bara koncentrera oss lite mer än andra gånger.
I can feel you, keep it up! it will go better my friend, a hug
@@lucalastorina8786 Thank you!
I can't comprehend how anyone like this can live with such little empathy, with such little capacity to think themselves out of their skin, like, not having the cognitive way to abstract themselves of their life and knowing that their version of reality, is that, just one of almost infinite other realities where not everyone is gifted to or just don't have the context to love. I really can't.
Of course, male loneliness is way more complex that just blaming the other gender, that's for sure but hearing these takes... Damn. It's surreal at best.
(Ironic. I see that lack of empathy does not make you lonely. Here is the example.)
The thing is they can talk about loneliness, but when it comes back to women and how women are suppose to "fix" them, it makes me want to puke.
What about friends? Family?
19:59 And then there are women who mock men who do know how to talk about their feelings and are soft hearted.
I've twice cried in front of a girlfriend. Twice she dumped me soon after.
I rather be lonely than be in a relationship.
If I'm seen as expendable then I rather be alone.
Saying that men should not have the ideal of having a partner / wanting a partner is like saying "i hope everyone is enlightned". its also an ideal. If you dont want people having entitlement/an ideal, stop having an ideal about them......
Lies upon lies, this video goes to show only one thing. Women should not be making explanatory videos about men’s issues. Just as much men shouldn’t do about women.
You will experience love when you see your highest values present in another, and when they see that in you. Otherwise, you're generally just partnering on the basis of economics or sexual inclination.
You couldn’t fathom what it’s like to be a kind, loving, yet completely isolated and lonely man.
Those guys need to walk! I think 20 km per day for at least 10 days should be a good start. People need movement, people need to be active and experience discovery to fight their inner demons and connect with the real world. Basically all they have to do is follow a track, then the physical activity + mental stimulation will lead to healthy introspection that will SOLVE most of their issues (and they will also make a lot of friends). The benefits of long distance walking are incredible! Don't believe me? Check out all those Compostela vlogs. Works for both men and women. Walking with an animal, like a donkey for example, is also EXTREMELY beneficial (like Robert Louis Stevenson) for people that need to work on emotional connection issues. So yeah, Americans reading this, come to France, come see the most incredible landscapes in the world and have fun walking ;) Ultreia!
There are guys who feel entitled but that's largely due to the previous generation - pretty much everyone got married, so it's this paradigm, faulty as it is, still prevails. Now these old customs are falling and no one is there to make men understand that things have changed, a lot. So there's a massive amount of confusion and pain and these men must now figure it out. That's life but new problems with no blue print. It's so sad to see both men and women have to trawl through all this shit without any guidance. It should be expected that outrage, sadness, confusion ends up being a byproduct at some point in a persons life.
As a guy who has been hit on by almost 50 women and 11 men, I can say without a doubt that women feel even more entitled to love and segs
I have never said women are not entitled as well. I specifically said it was an ungendered thing. I'm curious though. Why do you count how many people hit on you? Conducting a study?
Lies now we don’t
@@jamad-y7m Yeah, this guy is lying. I am probably a couple of decades older than him, but I have never counted women "hitting" on me. I do not even count how many women I have slept with. I do know how many girlfriends I have had over the decades, which is 20 women.
Interesting. Women can definitely be entitled. I'm wondering what you consider as being "hit on". There is definitely a social idea in the US that women are the objects of sexual desire and men are the subjects of sexual desire. Maybe being bound into the role as the sexual subject bothers you and maybe you should explore.
Wth you counting like that so worrying😂
Dear Celine Marie,
you covered some very true points towards the end of your talk.
Why on earth, did you choose this title for your video and did say what you said in the first 6 minutes of your video then?!
As you pointed out male loneliness is a lack of connection, which is in my oppion at least partially true, why do you accuse men of feeling entitled to be loved or worse having a woman for sex? Every adult man knows that good sex and a loving relationship is about connection.
The problem in romantic man and women relationships lies in my oppinion somewhere else:
As a man you are doing constantly wrong because you can not be both, a high income provider and a overly sensitive family man. (and in addition care for yourself). The hypocrisy of women is that they don´t realize that they can choose whatever they want and a man can not. He has to be everything in this contradictory set of standards.
I was also told by a female feminist friend that the patriarcy is hurting men too. Yes, probably, but the most fearsome defenders of patriarcy are women. Do you really think men choose those horrible jobs or working enviornments where you have to be emotionally numb to survive longer then two days because we like it? No, we do that because we have to provide otherwise our chances for a romantic relationship or a family are minimal. If a woman has to chose between a man with more personal qualities and a man with status and money, she will most likely choose the man with the money and status. (You may now say that she "loves" him, no she loves what he provides)
At that point women are perpetuating patriarcy. I would love to be released from my patriarchal duties and be more vulnerable, emotional and take care for my children, but I am not.
I am at a point where I just leave. I don´t see myself as a member of this society any more. I can deal with it, if a women tell me I have to earn 100k to be suitible for a relationship but this constant lying and gaslighting is unbareable for me. Women say they want equal rights. They miss that this also means equal responsibilities. And I am not willing to be a toy of their ever changing demands any more.
Maybe you should immerse yourself into the topic that a man is always wrong. No matter what you do, you will fail a certain expectation.
And while we are on it, you could also try to understand why a man always feels replaceable in a personal or societal/job enviornment.
As I said at the beginning, you did mention a lot of valid points in the second half of your video, but you failed at noticing most of mens societal and mental challenges which also cause loneliness.
I doubt I will ever be in a relationship, I'm 46 and have never been on a date. However I'm not lonely anymore but I also have intimate friendships with men and more with women, I would say my closest friends are with women, we're not that super close but we share a lot. I'm happy with who I am but I don't think I will ever have the social status to date.
Bad partner ≠ loneliness
Bad partner = abuse/bad choice
Having no one = loneliness
Humans are biologically programmed to be miserable if they cannot reproduce but this of course is not an excuse for unethical or illogical behavior. Talking to male friends will never be enough and women’s eventful urge to want children will never leave.
But I do agree love is rare. Most people just mate they never love.
I think part of the issue is that men aren’t taught how to talk about their emotions, or when they are, how to discuss them with other men. For women, two close friends will sit together, sometimes over a beverage or meal, and casually chat about their lives and how they feel about varying subjects. For many men, this format of discussion doesn’t feel like a productive exercise. This may be because men view the world differently than women, and so the same tools to teach and build emotional maturity and management between men may not be the same methods that are effective for women.
This is something I think is under-appreciated-we assume the strategies to teach emotional intelligence that work for women will also work for men, which may not necessarily be the case, and may be part of why so many men don’t volunteer for therapy, even if they acknowledge their faults.
Another point, what we call love is actually a misunderstanding. When regular, ordinary, average ppl get together due to their own lackings and limitations there has to be something emancipatory about it or it's just a crappy relationship, so what do average ppl do? Call it love, attempt to make it special. Love is a trick.
it’s the same when I hear “American dream”… you succeed when you relish the pain that comes with the desire to survive
For me its simple. Women have a support system with friends and family.
For some F-ing reason whenever men talk about loneliness they blame it on the women. The women is at fault for not liking them. This makes zero sense to me.
I don't care if a women or man gets many partners or none at all, loneliness is an individual issue. Blaming it on dating is BS
You are not entitled to safety either
based
Based based based. Hope you’re doing good brother.
What helps me as a male is to just act like my male friends are female friends sometimes. Just start talking about your emotions or more vulnerable things, and you both feel a sense of relief. the more your beans spill, the more THEIRS DO TOO. be confident. Its a game of earning respect and recognition with guys, and if you are confident and vulnerable, their beans will SPIIILLLLL. but if you are cringe and awkward, then they feel uncomfortable. But if your ccoOOLL about it, then they feel THEY need to be cool about it also. Its like you break the system of masculinity by being competitively vulnerable and will eventually reach a point where the cool guy mask wears off (and you kiss each other, mwamwamwamwah! {just KIDDING}) and you have deeper more better connection. which means you both can talk about deeper more meaningful things aND WILLL feel less inclined to blame OTHER PEOPLE FOR YOUR OWN SUFFERING
2:00 I don’t think lonely men feel entitled to love, I think we feel entitled to trying to find love and to dating/experimentation/sexuality which is a lot more reasonable.
Should one really believe they they’re not entitled to at least some sex and dating at some point in their life?
No one is entitled to sex or love because it requires someone else (in your case a woman/women) to engage with you sexually and romantically. No one should have to engage with someone in an intime way if they don’t want to; so no, we aren’t entitled to sex or romantic love.
nobody is entitled to those things...also, since you are dealing with humans not inanimate objects, it implies that someone MUST be at the receiving end
@@ohnoohnono that doesn’t make sense within our current society. Someone is on the other end of every entitlement and we regularly say we’re entitled to many things (by that I mean we agree that society is wronging those who aren’t provided with these things). For instance, in our society we are entitled to food, water, often times housing, basic education, many say we should even be entitled to medical care and higher education. We’re also entitled to fair treatment/non-discrimination, we have whole lists of enumerated rights and entitlements to participate in government, etc. why then should sex and romance be separate from this? By that I mean, why can’t someone who lacks sexual and romantic options not say “society is failing to provide me something which I ought to be due as a member” when so many other people in similar situations (that impinge on others) can?
@@DeathSquared7 because it is indeed not food, shelter, education, safety but accessory.. In order to get that you need to enter another person's life and that depends on the singular person
@@ohnoohnono I think education and romance are probably equally important. I don’t think there are nearly as many suicides over not being able to get an education as there are over lack of romantic options. That is one of the aspects that make me think education is more of an accessory then romance.
I see how it depends on an individual person but it’s also depend on large scale societal factors like everything. Also, groups are just clusters of individuals. For instance, if you want racial equality you have to force things onto individual racists.
4:25 this is fucking incomprehensible to me. It’s not that I expect women to date me cause of anything, it’s that I expect women to want me they way I want them
I think that you two are responding to two different concepts. She’s addressing the anger and frustration that comes from men who are lonely, that suggest that it’s somehow women’s fault that men are experiencing loneliness, because those same women aren’t willing to date them.
@@bluerain1719 I listened to what she said again and she’s saying that women don’t want to date average men cause heterosexual relationships are more beneficial for men then women. I guess I have to think about that awhile.
ok, since it's not possible, everybody needs to find an alternative
@RomCh-ek7wr that’s what it seems like and that makes me super resentful :/
@RomCh-ek7wr guess so, but then, so is everything haha
For women, loneliness and depression are always a temporary and optional thing and entirely situational as was the case for you, but in almost all cases there is an option there for things to get better and they always do. Men on the other hand, being lonely and depressed is just a part of our condition and we are moulded by it, it is not just an option or a temporary thing but a fact of life and we are often told to just suck it up because society doesn't give a shit about us. It's not a matter of entitlement but acknowledgement that our lives have little value in the eyes of most people, yes you had a boyfriend and were still incredibly lonely but that is not what men talk about when we are discussing loneliness, women have stronger support networks and men commit suicide at far higher rate for a reason and it is all linked to the facts I just outlined.
What is stopping you from creating your own support network?
But all humans need love it's a fundamental part of our survival without it we die saying someone is entitled to love is like saying a person is entitled to water it's a true because it's a need not a want this take comes from a place of privilege and lack of understanding it's like watching a white person say racism isn't that bad
There are no more male exclusive spaces. We can’t even have the Boy Scouts be only for boys anymore. Plus, it’s hard to make friends as an adult with working constantly. The best solution would be to join a club for something you like or a gym that gets you around other dudes who you can talk to and form a friendship.
I love being alone. If I hadn’t met my gf I’d be traveling alone for the rest of my life
Tragic
@@andrewwood3597 how so?
This is the hunger games. Not a place for love
7:44 “wouldn’t expect to be in great shape without going to the gym”
Because the gym isn’t another person who’s supposed to want me too
I absolutely agree with you! Love is rare. If you have it, you are fortunate. That's definitely a lesson you learn when you're maturing.
1:16 as a man, no man will even know what it feels like to watch over your shoulder all day everyday for you whole life from potential violence though, LOL
also ya men need to start nomslizing hugging and genuine, friendly touching.
Interesting video but I think you get something fundamentally wrong, which is not surprising, as you as a women trying to understand how men feel about sex, is like a rich person trying to understand how a poor person feels about money. If you have enough, by that I mean, if you know you could always have sex, when you want to, you dont really feel the need for it, but if you always struggle to get it, you want it even more. And the other part is, that as a man, sex gives me much more than pleasure, it gives me reasurence, worth, acceptance, a feeling of being good enough and having sex takes away the feeling of lonelyness. For women there are probably different actions that give them these feelings, like a friend or partner listening to them or giving them presents or sth like that.
For the video you made about feeling lonely, while having a boyfriend. For the lonely men it is like it is for a person of a third world country hearing a poor person in a first world country moaning about being poor. Of course this person can be poor and has big problems, but they are just in another dimension. A person from a third world country would say, why do you have to be hungry, there a doves on the street, eat them, while in the first world country we would never do that.
hi, issue with sex and veiw about is like this, imagine if roles were reversed and you as boy have hard time to climax and girls have it easier. Now imagine if you get aroused and everything and she is done before you and then went sleep. Now you are left what? .. now you have dilema wake her up and she will be angry with your demands or do it yourself. This si how a lot of guys view sex just do the deed and be done with that. It should be in different way first take care of her and then think about your climax if it comes with it great. If you find good partner she would think same and then all its fairy tale. what im saying is that this individualism when i need it so i want it is killing sex as whole idea.
Women want connection/emotional intelligence and it is scarce to find in a man. While a man thinks women being able to get sex whenever she want is important to women. As a man thats why you don't understand how a woman can be lonely it's b/c we don't need sex like that. Women try to manipulate men to be more "caring" by using sex and it doesn't work because women are delusional about the male species as a whole. Most women are looking for a man to have a mind like a woman in a male body. Also men are very visual and there are a lot of women that are ignored because of outside apperances. Men if they get desperate will hump anything but those women are not getting men wanting long term commitment or marriage proposals.
how about findint this reassurance on other stuff, since in order to get sex you need to get to other people and it's exhausting
As a man I find your views pathetic. It's weird to me that you might not realise how if you need sex to feel reassured and accepted then you have deep psychological issues. It might seem weird, but take it from someone who has experienced it, having sex with a woman won't make you feel better about your life. If you can't feel satisfied by yourself then you are not a real man. You can't depend on a woman's pussy to get your self worth. Are you really that brittle?
I've personally enriched my life with so many things such as the arts, .y career that I love, friends and nature that I don't really believe women have anything to offer me anymore. If you gave up on your expectations and focused on what aspects of your life are dependent on yourself and not other people you would feel much better. This dependency men have on sex to feel like they are worth it is what makes us weak.
You should make a doc with timestamps for the images you use - many of them were really lovely and I'd like to be able to find them!
the flip side of entitlement is that which they are to commit to, without the commitment one is willing to give, no one is entitled to anything, except perhaps the most basic of things like food and water and at most a shelter, regardless of how traditional or liberal the relationship dynamic is, it still comes with one willingly being involved in such a relationship, and how and whether it turns into something as love is but negotiation between the two of them, and if both parties have all they ever need provided by the society, such as food and water and basic income, incentive to get into a relationship drops, even when the split is 50/50 unlike traditional ones where things like housework is mostly done by women in the household, and likewise they had to rely on having a husband to have a place in the society and to survive without being a prostitute
It's so exhausting for women to always bring up andrew tate at the start of a conversation about men's issues. He's an online grifter that most men, especially older, have never even heard of. At this point I'm convinced it is women hate-watching and citing him that still necessitates he be part of the conversation. And I'm supposed to continue keeping an open mind about your observations and analysis of men's issues after you thought it somehow productive to feature him at the beginning of your video. Men don't listen to women's content in this style because it's insulting and alienating.
Who cares about what older men watch?
@aleksandrac9335 Older men need to be part of the conversation when speaking of men's issues. These are your elders, fathers, and grandfathers. If you don't care, your opinion is irrelevant.
@@timefades27 male lonliness is not an issue
@@aleksandrac9335 What about male suicide and deaths of despair? What about female loneliness? Is that not an issue as well? What a nasty thing to say. I truly hope you get better.
@@timefades27 women are happier single. We are only lonely when we are trapped by men
I figured you feel lonely when you don't feel acknowledged, acknowledge yourself first.
I agree. But its also beautiful to experience both. That even if you dont acknowledge yourself, others can, etc:-)
@@celine_mariesure that's ideal, imo that's too much to ask today. Also if you don't acknowledge yourself first no matter how much other people do you still won't be content with yourself, I think that may be one reason famous people commit suicide.
If you get the right friends or partner they can help you acknowledge yourself though.
"Acknowledge yourself first" is often unrealistic. Many, many people have been traumatised or damaged in such a way that they need someone else to model what true empathy, and even love, looks like before they're able to do it for themselves.
/@Hemlocker completely agree. Humans are social creatures. We need acknowledgement that we csn get and then that we can give back to another human being or groups of hukan beings
Friendship is better than courtship
a lot of the men in the comments don’t realized they are proving your point LMAO
If you as a women offered every guy sex without social repercussion most would say yes. Some men have literally zero options.
@@Occult_Library_Drive Be less rcist sxist and homophbic. Be more lberal and progressve
@@jasonhaven7170 If you only knew how liberal and progressive I was... You seem like a left brained idiot who doesn't know how the natural laws of the world work
@@jasonhaven7170 I will poke you
18:56 dude, who the hell hasn’t been taught how do express their emotions? I think that’s bullshit. I just don’t want more touching or more empathy with friends. Is it not ok not to want that?
It seems the society doesn't prepare men to have the emotional tools they need to foster connection beyond transaction. What emotional skills and logic that women are practically given, and debatably are more naturally attuned to, men sorely lack, but because even though socialisation is maladaptive it still produces profit, there is no motivation to address it. And if men truely innately lack emotional depth compared to women, they won't, I won't. I don't blame women for my social deficits, or felt entitled, because it seemed stupid to hold entitlements, I blame my deficits for my deficits, like autism, hereditary depression and alexithymia. It makes your explanation far more obvious. I'm glad someone said it, and didn't scapegoat anything. It's a shame most men probably collectively lack the social intelligence to figure it out themselves. I still don't really get it even though you just spelled it out. I know that because of my deficits I will probably never have any "real" connection, not even with my own mother, because I am touch averse and can't read social cues, because I lack the ability to empathise with any depth to myself (alexithymia) or others (maybe because've the double empathy problem), and this is likely exacerbated because I was socialised male. But at least this video can give me greater clarity and a female perspective which I have always made extra effort to value, because I don't get to here those as often, and all perspectives are useful. I am so sick of men blaming women for shit when we are all just human, pointlessly gendering everything when we are all just human. We divide ourselves from eachother, and learn to repress the self into a neat box, hiding everything that doesn't. And that is what is not only expected but aspired to. And the next generation will probably repaeat those mistakes, and the last friends i'll have will be the ones I made in primary school, which are fading fast, because they move on, and I don't, and I don't go anywhere or change anything like you said, and learned to expect rejection to the point where I developed RSD, because of the trauma from years of rejection, because I lack the ability to fit in, the rare occasion I meet people like me I hold disdain, or/ and envy of them, and they might of me. People say "find your tribe" but when I find them I think of eliminating them from the gene pool. My therapist told me I can express my own emotions quite well, and that is the cruel irony, that I do actually posses the language, from philosophical education and years of depressive rumination to say close to what I think & feel, but I can't change it, even after years of getting therapy, I just feel that the more cynical view is the truth, so I go with it. What is pessimistic to others are just accurate predictions that manifest regardless. Indecision is often all that stops me, but now I'll distract myself with another pointless bullshit video and try to forget it all again. maybe I shouldn't watch this stuff. I guess at least this comment will help with engagement or some shit so here you go...
I think your take on mens' loneliness is very confused; men have no issues establishing close friendships with other men - the issue is that they rely on infrastructure that is becoming ever more scarce, such as hobby clubs, organised team labour, neighbourhood ties, etc. The problem is that because of these becoming scarcer, men are lonelier - not that men are intriinsically less able to understand each other. At the same time systemic constraints tend to disregard the upholding of male-centric infrastructure to favour women-centric infrastructure for reasons that are obvious to everyone.
This perspective fails spectacularly at addressing the fact that women are also increasingly unhappy, something that has been established years ago by a number of studies and that leads me to believe you have not reflected as much on this topics as you perhaps should have (of course, you are entitled to reflect on anything without being particularly informed, but this of course reflect on you).
You can look at studies mentioning the Nordic Paradox, where it seems that past a certain degree of equalization of rights seem to get unhappier so to say; this inevitably is also tied to intersex relations. Additionally, all available data seems to show that even in advanced Western societies, women by far and large have less children than they would like, including childless women. So what does it all mean? It is not that men are "failing at relationships", it seems that women are also getting a bad deal overall too.
Some of your suggestions are frankly bizarre, such as the idea that women being more conflictual in their friendships is somehow evidence that they are also more empathic (I would argue that in fact, men fight less because boundaries in male-male friendships are clearer and issues are more openly addressed before theyr reach critical stages).
Your focus on "being in touch with one's feelings" also seems to imply that men should be more open about their own emotions, something that has been proposed countless times in feminist literature; then again, this proposition falls apart the moment you find out that the emotions that are more meaningful and identity-shaping for men are anger, courage and pride, much less so the typical "good" emotions.
>this proposition falls apart the moment you find out that the emotions that are more meaningful and identity-shaping for men are anger, courage and pride, much less so the typical "good" emotions.
Why does it fall apart? The key is to learn to shape your angry, courageous and proud identity without hurting other people because hurting other people is no longer cool or acceptable. It's not feminists' job to figure out the shape of this new identity of men that would feel authentic and fulfilling. I see manosphere and the likes of Tate as just an unsuccessful "mutation" in the evolution of men's new identity.
Women have to figure out their new identity too as the world changed and the values we were taught are no longer relevant to our survival and happiness.
@@hyperfocus94you skipped over a bunch of great points like that women are getting more unhappy and dissatisfied with their relationships even as they do better in society. Young women make more money than most young men.
Dr. K on healthygamer has talked a lot in multiple videos about us asking people to express their emotions but only the good emotions.
1. The loss of social infrastructure is important I think as well in explaining why people are more and more lonely. That does not explain the male specific outliers though, so it goes under for me what i consider general loneliness factors. I am not sure what you mean when you say we are favouring "women-centric infrastructure".
2. and 3. I am well aware that women are also more unhappy and I think its very important to talk about. And the "paradox" that having all your physical needs met have been shown to not necessarily equate just eternal bliss as we mightve thought previously. However, again this is general and another topic entirely. But one I find interesting nonetheless. If you are making the argument that women were happier when they were forced to marry a man and had no autonomy I'm not sure how to even have that convo.. Obviously an individuals freedom comes above any study about what makes them happier. Women are still free to chose to be "tradwives" if they please, so there shouldnt be a problem on that front.
4. This might sound "bizarre" to you but it's not strange in current litterature exploring the subject. If you want to read more I suggest a paper called "Sex (similarities and) differences in friendship jealousy" by Jaimie Arona Krems et al. I believe it might be fun.
5. Those emotions are probably identity shapers indeed, that doesn't sound surprising to me. I'd love to see some source or literature on this though? If you have any. However this could again be interpreted as a result of patriarchal conditioning. Also, whatever emotions you identify is still considered emoting. I'm not sure why you think "less good emotions" wouldnt be considered important and a part of what the "feminists" are talking about.
Hope that answered it all? haha:-)
@@hyperfocus94it seems there is no place for men in a truly feminist world, cause otherwise we would have found a solution for men by now, it’s been how many years
@@LondonMoneyCashEnterprise feminists are not looking for solutions "for men", and the world is not feminist, despite these many years of effort, we'll see what the future holds.
Why do you think philosophy is male dominated?
I would say it has to do with men struggling with talking with others and asking for help due to fear of looking weaker and not reliable. Hence men are more inclined to philosophy to try and internally solve their problem on their own.
Because for a man, you are not born with intrinsic value or a purpose for existing, nobody wants you beyond what you are capable of providing and being useful for.
I do not approve of Tate as a person but the clip you showed is an important message. Many men are genuinely struggling. His very last point, about men ending themselves, comes with a high statistic relative to women. 3 men for every women. It gets so dark for many men where that's there escape from it. I encourage you to really think about that and how you have glossed over the seriousness of what men are facing and how they feel. I admire you and what you are doing on here, and agree with a lot of the rest of the video. Not everything, but I just want to post a comment that focuses on how compassion amd empathy for this very real problem is part of the solution.
Why would you think I gloss over the subject? I've dedicated a 20 min video to considering it with a lot of empathy and constructive advice. I'm not sure what makes you think I don't think its important given the context.
@@celine_marie Because I don't see or feel it from this video. I looked for it and wanted to see it, but I didn't. Talking about something at length isn't a display of empathy itself. It's about what and how you talk about the subject.
I think the advice that men should seek meaningful friendships is good advice, but the focus on the entitlement stuff is offputting. I wouldn't lead with that if someone told me they were lonely and would like a relationship. It's hurtful and it's an assumptious and not leading with compassion. Most struggling with loneliness aren't entitled to love.
@@celine_marieI don’t see the empathy in stating that men believe they are entitled to a relationship. They want a relationship very badly but they don’t think that and in any case being starved of relationships and human contact makes people a little insane and irrational.
I don’t see the empathy in using the most extreme manosphere voices to represent the positions of lonely men. We talk about anything and anyone that is pro man as toxic and problematic
Women seem to take offense of the idea that men have needs, it almost seems like a man who needs something automatically disqualifies him from respect in womens eyes, and makes him seem infantile, this entitlement thing seems to not be present when she discusses hypergamy which is essentially entitlement to the extreme, its not romantic love that is important in this case for men it is the chance of romantic love which as a result of womenzlibz it has been reserved for a smaller group of men leaving others to starve. Its fkd up we think we freed women but really weve doomed them and men without realizing it.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, but I want to offer a different perspective based on personal experience. My mother was diagnosed with bipolar disorder when I was 9, and despite countless treatments-therapies, hospitalizations, ECT, medications-she attempted suicide several times before ultimately succeeding about 15 years after her diagnosis.
In the months leading up to her death, she went through a severe manic episode. We, her loved ones, were extremely concerned and reached out to numerous doctors and professionals, begging for intervention, even suggesting involuntary treatment. The answer was always the same: they couldn't act unless there was sufficient legal justification, and her autonomy couldn't be overridden.
Mental illness runs deep in my family-her grandmother also likely had bipolar disorder. So, when I hear comments like yours, focusing on men’s higher suicide rates and implying that discussing women’s emotional support systems minimizes male struggles, it feels oversimplified and dismissive. The issue of suicide is incredibly complex. Mental health resources are stretched thin, some illnesses are untreatable, and we haven't yet found a way to prevent all suicides. If someone truly decides to take their own life, it's often impossible to stop them, even with support or intervention.
Of course, loneliness among men is a valid concern and should be addressed, but reducing the conversation to just suicide rates ignores the full picture. The challenges with mental health-whether for men or women-are not just about empathy or loneliness but involve deep, systemic issues. It feels dismissive to reduce the broader, complex struggle to something like “men have it worse” when mental health issues affect so many people in so many ways.
i think they also don't realize that in history, not EVERYONE got married. Many people were indeed single. Most men fully understand that they don't want a woman who wants to change them. But then can't understand why a woman wouldn't want to make herself smaller to be with a man. I'm 34 and settling is just not an option. It's just not worth it to be with someone who isnt as smart as you, isnt helpful, isnt driven. when youre in a relationship like that and you get out, and do any kind of emotional healing work, you can never go back. the problem is many of them dont want to grow mentally and emotionally. its actually very strange.
As a man, I think you nailed this.
Cuck
Whats that painting in the thumbnail?
Edit: I found the painting, "целинный совхоз ижевский" by Viktor Popov, 1961
I'm pretty sure it's AI generated.
@hyperfocus94 I actually found the peice, it's by Viktor Popov, it wasnt ai generated, but rather AI expanded, I think
@@aquatttic8795 thank you! I was curious about it myself.
Yes, thats right! It is AI expanded🩷
3:50 i don't see how women are being blamed here? How exactly is it simply a fact and a question !
“Men are entitled to love… why would a women date you” - the pretty girl
Yes why would we?
@@MalesAreDemonsthe name is strange🤔 it is woman that is the creation of the devil for sure! Unpure and evil.
All of us won't be able to procreate that is life
I'm gonna say that to the male audience. Don't think that it is to blame girls for not liking you despite of you having good intentions and sometimes they rather being with bad types. It's the same with you. If you can pick a hot girl you don't even wanna know about that one that really likes you but that you find unatractive. Don't put yourself as a victim and get complaining about women. If you really want, you gotta sacrifice. Go on a diet. Go to the gym. Go get a nice hair cut. Take a treat of your beard. Study something not just you like but that can make you interesting. Learn about places that you can meet people that might like you. Don't think girls own you something because you were nice to them. Don't be some glued type of guy. Don't keep pushing something you see isn't going anywhere. People own you nothing. Get yourself interesting for others and your chances will grow. If you don't get nothing, just keep getting better and always keep in mind this: no one owns you nothing. If you are not willing to change your life to get what you want the most, you don't deserve it yet.
JFC, the word is "OWE", not own.
I also think it is way harder to make good friends than to get a girlfriend. Sadly most places were men got good friends in the past were the military, or friends with whom you shared great long term projects. I think men usually connect when cooperating with each other with a common goal. I don't think there are long lasting friendships without having had such an opportunity when you were at highschool. Girls can connect with each other just by talking about meaningless and mundane stuff. I think it is a talent to connect with others just for the sake of it.
I wanna thank the newest comments for saving me about 21 minutes of gaslighting and blaming. You are part of the problem here and as always with out fail of course you blame the men for the problem that isn’t their fault.
It is your fault
as some others already expressed. a lot of great points have been raised. I have to admit however that the framing of 'men's entitlement' does rub me a bit the wrong way. it seems to me that entitlement is a rather loaded term, something accusatory about it. you could say that it's quiet challenging to empathize and connect with somebody they experience as being entitled. maybe similar to the guys from the past video that seemed to strongly reject somebody that saw as being entitled.
that being said I'd see it too often that people confuse their desires for covert expectations. people really do got to humble themselves,, for their own good.
we also need more hope and a less atomized culture (imo it's less about "patriarchy" and more so about individualism)
or that's at least what I think
what do y'all think?
And it’s just not true that men feel they are entitled to a relationship. Yes there is a societal expectation that men find a women and men really want one but they don’t feel entitled unless you go to the most extreme and dumbest possible people ever like she does in the video (while she uses philosophers to discuss her side of the argument.
I’m not saying whatabout women; in comparison to women, women talk a lot about their expectations of men, even of just men in general. Men at the very least feel less entitled to good treatment from the opposite sex and relationships than women.
At the end of the day we need people to have relationships for society to keep functioning and continue. She doesn’t really care about that
I made it clear that when speaking about entitlement, I was not simply referring to a "male" entitlement, but a general one. Yes, the term is loaded. And fitting, I believe. Atomization and individualism and a capitalist structure of society is important as well, however, patriarchy is considered a foundational tool for Capitalism today. And because of that, its important to examine how we perceive gender to see how its used as a tool for oppression. It is used, by the way, as a tool of oppression for both women and men but in different ways. This is not a "gender war," however as a man it can be harder to acknowledge some of the privileges the currents systems grant you just as it can be challenging for white European people to do the same in a racist context. And I guess it requires, on some level to feel a bit uncomfortable.
Entitlement is inherent in systems of oppression. Wealthy people feel entitled to the exploits of workers labor. Men feel entitled to womens bodies and free invisible labor (housework and emotional labor). And white euro people feel entitled to use and abuse other countries land and think our theories and art superior to others.
@@celine_marie If I understood you correctly. Both women and men are being oppressed through sex-specific gender norms opposed by the patriarchy. That being said men are in some way uniquely privileged in a way that women aren't. In extension, by living out their (often times unacknowledged) privileges, men oppress women.
it seems to me that in this way male's loneliness is not the concern here but rather their oppression of women. I'm all for creating awareness for women's suffering. I think it's good to point out how one gender rather systematically causes the suffering of another's.
I agree that on some level it can (you said require) make others feel uncomfortable, as people have to realize that they are doing something wrong. I think my point was -and thank you for helping me clarify this- that using such a loaded & accusatory term often times creates too many uncomfortable feelings. In this situation it's easier and very tempting to reject those the statements of "this person that's attacking me", in order to protect one's sense of (affirmatively good) self.
cathartic most definitely but I think sharing these statements which do come across as gender-war-y and lacking in empathy tends move the needle less for these "oppressed yes but especially privileged" viewers
that being said I'm just a random comment, while it was you who put their thoughts out on a video. which gains my respect.
@@celine_mariethe cons of patriarchy for women (pros for average men) have been broken down to a meaningful degree. The cons of patriarchy for men (pros for women) are stronger than ever and your video talks about these exact pros that patriarchy gives women.
Cons for women that are gone: Much more women go to university than men and now among young people in big cities, young women make more money than young men. Men don’t feel entitled to women’s housework. As the video discusses, men don’t even have women to do their housework. Men cant feel entitled to a women’s body or a relationship because reality hits them very quick that it isn’t that simple.
Pros for women: women can still expect the men to be richer even though the economy sucks, the world treats men more coldly than women. You even mentioned that this is caused by patriarchy but apparently it’s men that have to check their privileges with patriarchy
@@celine_marie Could you explain how your pseudo-marxist views, which depend on labor-value theory, work in a world where a girl can make a bunch of money selling her bathwater?
ok 4 months ago so whatever but why is this matching andrew tate in terms of reductivity? like is this reactive or a theory?
Hey I really enjoy ur videos! But I didn’t understand when u said people r entitled to love.I honestly think people shouldn’t have to work hard to gain someone’s love and just existing as u are is enough
women never do.
"existing as u are is enough" that only applies to women
I get what you're saying cuz people are too damn jaded to even give a person a chance at having a connection The worst anybody can say is a no or ghosting
Strongly disagree with your perspective at the beginning of the video. Philosophy being male dominated isnt an explanation of your viewer stats.
What do you think it is?
Hey love your content, would just say it sounds sometimes that your reading
off a script in your videos. No hate keep up the content its great
I am, its an essay that i write and I do not remember 20 minutes of content by heart. Thank you
Love your video.
Entire video is just this woman throwing gaslighting bullshit about how men aren’t good enough, just skip
Can you credit the painters?
how come she thinks a human has no empathy? men are not human or what
20:44 see that’s the real story. Women don’t want to date. That’s fine but then I don’t want to participate in society and I think a lotta young men feel that way and are doing that now. Women can choose not to date but it helps create doomers in a major way.
@@stk5536 I’m trying to understand women’s thoughts on this issue but I must respectfully disagree with part of what you’re saying. I agree that lack of third places, socialization, etc. are growing issues that are making people more lonely, but I also feel that there’s a unique difficulty being faced by young men pursuing heterosexual relationships.
As a young man I feel and have felt that is simply way too difficult to get positive romantic attention (dates, sex, relationships) from women. I don’t want to list things but the dating app experience encapsulates this nicely. It’s extremely brutal and demoralizing. It seems that whenever men complain about this on the internet we’re told that we should focus on friendship or ourselves or whatever else. I think dates, sex, and romantic relationships are all valid things to want; and it feels that they’re withheld quite arbitrarily (think “ick’s”). What’s worse it feels that discussing the structural/societal aspects of this is taboo (economic incentives, etc.), when discussing the structural aspects of every other kind of oppression is quite normal. All this leads me to feel that it is women that are uniquely at fault or at least uniquely capable (and therefore responsible in some sense) to fix it. Can you empathize with my position?
@@stk5536 I think there is another way. Why can we not shift the dynamic between men and women such that women are attracted to a wider swath of men? The same way we’ve shifted women’s role such that things which would’ve been romantic/sexual death sentences before are far more widely accepted. For instance, women having tattoos, smoking, having jobs, not being virgins, etc.
If we brought a man from 1890 he’d likely say he wouldn’t want a woman with any of those qualities but we’ve shifted that. Now those things are way less controversial. And I think we’ve done that by condemning those preferences. Can’t we do the same thing for men?
For instance, we should treat women who say “I want a man who pays for things and takes care of me (in a non-mutual way) cause that’s being a man” the same way we treat men who say “I want a woman who knows her place”. We should condemn both as icky, oppressive views that hurt people. Might that eventually reduce this problem?
@@stk5536 it’s not just about being a provider, it’s about the whole male role having to do most of the work during the beginnings of relationships.
How do you explain how difficult it is for young men to date?
@@stk5536 I experience it as something women are doing because none of those thing make me want to date less nor do they make it harder for a woman to get a date with me. It seems that these things are making women want to date less.
It’s probably just that dating gets easier for men as we get older assuming we develop ourselves. That doesn’t feel fair to me and it creates enormous resentment but maybe that’s how it is (rather then being that women don’t want to date, it’s just that almost no one wants to date young men)?
@@stk5536 that’s the thing though, I think it’s women that want to meet people in person cause they want to be charmed cause without charm they don’t want to get to know a guy. That’s the fundamental imbalance I’m bothered by, I already want to get to know a woman without need of charm. I don’t mind traversing difficult interactions but it feels like women are barely interested if even that.
The present zeitgeist is the child begotten by the marriage between toxic masculinity based on power and pseudo feminism based on naivete. And oh boy the child has just been born recently.
As Alain De Botton said " love a skill "
@@lonelystupidwar we still have an idea about love which is more likely " romantic" but it's actually not the same . Our thoughts on love nowadays are just to suffer from one side love exc ... Just ask yourself is it love or just a myth
@RomCh-ek7wr nah
I think you are completely missing the mark, but thank you for your content. This really does deserve more discussion.
This woman doesn’t know a thing about men she should be quiet.
Incel take
I'm a female viewer ! :)
I suggest a video about " State Anxiety "
Have you ever heard *Sound of a Woman* by *Kiesza* ~ I Just Love Her^^
I hoped you would get to in the video but you didn’t that however individuals feel about what they need and deserve in life, whether they are reasonable or not or actually owed that or not)
We live in a society and people are owed many things and need to give certain things for society to function. This is a societal issue not an individual issue. Nobody is owed anything in terms of nature and the universe but I would like society to continue.
Individual men are not owed relationships but as a society we need people to be having relationships and kids so everything can function. You have probably heard of South Korea and Japan where things are not functioning because nobody is having kids and they are scrambling to fix it
I think it's time for our society to accept that traditional model of relationship and family is not sustainable and stop trying to recreate it. There are other models of reproduction, parenthood, parenting and families that do not involve forming a traditional man-woman couple.
@hyperfocus94 What the alternatives look like?
@hyperfocus94 What do the alternatives look like?
@@hyperfocus94everyone has traditional minds and bodies. I’m not conservative but yes the traditional model is sustainable. It’s what has always sustained humans. I would like human society to continue and not like an AI robot one.
Our current societal model of nobody having kids and supplementing the lack of population with immigrants is not sustainable. Those immigrants are coming from countries which are having a shrinking birth rate too. Women saying we don’t owe men anything is not sustainable.
We have the tech for women to have kids without a man and if that was going to save us then it already would have. It has not saved us for many reasons. Clearly it’s too expensive to have a kid today.
At the very least a shrinking population is very core to this issue and she doesn’t care about it. It hurts every corner of society.
I find that you need to be "a big enough man" to respect her right not to be interested in you, otherwise working on yourself for the next turn of the merry-go-round....... not taking your pleasant wish to be granted, predestined 🎠🎪🍰
I agree, with confidence and safety comes knowing that someone who isnt into you isnt for you and youre destined for better.
@@celine_marie Also-emphasizing one’s self “maintaining strong boundaries” and not letting their temper “boil over” like black-slop in a kettle, on a heated stove. Thinking of that scene in Star Wars when Luke Skywalker faces down a circling trainer robot that zoots! him with mini-lasers as he holds up his lightsaber and blocks the irritating fire, kind of like an exercise of his fast-twitch impulses. Keep your head, keep your temper, keep up your good standing with others!! That would solve 95 percent “of your man-problem” right there……..
I think women in general recognize the individual humanity of each man. In my experience, I've felt a lack of recognition my many men that I'm also just human. I don't expect men to fit into a mold of masculinity. They are a mix of their experiences and culture and more. In regards to male sexual entitlement...for me it's about some men's attitude toward my body and sexuality as being a placeholder until they find their perfect match. I don't know women that look for a perfect match.
There’s still time to delete this. This is so ignorant; and women have completely lost the plot.
Yeah agreed
All these lonely guys who are watching these videos r too dumb to realise that you were lonely in that video
They couldve been like "yo I am in Norway too, let's hang" but nope
If that worked then clearly these conversations would never come up in the first place
And then she rejects being friends with them
Yes, or to simply experience solidarity in lived experiences we've both been in.
Hey, do you play badminton? The reason I am asking is because I noticed a racket cover on the left side behind you.
Tennis:-)
13:45 ... well, saying I am "not under water" underwater is weird, is it not?
People used to fall in love and have children and now they don't so much. So something has changed, and that thing could be the end of us I guess.
Also one correction, love definitely does come out of nowhere!
Did they fall in love more than people do today? Marriage has been an economic mechanism throughout the whole history of human civilization first and foremost.
@@hyperfocus94 Yeah I think people did fall in love more years ago . Something has changed. It's like people are less humble and naive, and more cynical. It's weird to look back on a past you remember and it seem quaint. (I'm 46 btw)
proverbs 30:18,19
Good news:) Starting this year there are AI systems on the market that are very convincingly acting as (conversational) girlfriends. They can be configured to have a desired personality, profile, looks, etc. you can easily develop a deep relationship, fall in love, not feel alone anymore. This is an uncharted territory but at least it could save many men from desperation. Within 3-5 years these will be advanced to being truly indistinguishable from the real world. Then, maybe women like Celine who genuinely don’t see the need in getting involved in a relationship will be left alone. Maybe they could even sell their personality to be implemented by AI. Imagine talking to AI Celine whenever you feel like. The same goes for having interesting male friends.
when i was young i thought i would have a million dates and then get happily ever after. now it is as rare as a living donosaur. the scripture is fulfilled: mysterious indeed is the way of God (love?) between a man and a maid. forgot where that is in the bible. psalms?
Aww sweet video. Where can I get me one like ya?
you complain about angry guys comments , l wonder if they were trolls pretending to be that , just tryng to trigger you
No they are probably real people but in a reasonable healthy debate you should make the strongest argument for your opponent that you argue against (aka steelman)
But she picks the dumbest most extreme people to represent the let’s help men side and she uses a philosopher to argue for her side
No they were pretty genuine from what I gathered. And sure we could consider Andrew Tate "extreme", but he is an extreme figure who has garnered a considerable large following who genuinely engaged with his ideas. So, I see no issue in using his ideas to represent a general sentiment.
I didn't use any philosophers to argue any of my points in this video. I used deductive logic as well as my own general knowledge about gender issues which I've been studying for a bit now.
@@celine_marie l often see trolls do this...and see women fall for it .
Lots of bad takes