I don't understand why these reports would not be automatically sent from the authority. Just register your address and email. How is this not already done?
There's no way your transponder will lose its configuration because the battery was disconnected. Otherwise it would lose its configuration every time you shut off the master - which disconnects your battery. It's not like a car stereo where it requires constant battery voltage to maintain internal settings. Older GPS units like the GNS530 used an internal battery to maintain data, but modern avionics use EEPROM/Flash ROM which maintains state without power.
Unfortunately flash losing data when power is removed is a very real failure mode. EEPROM can do the same. It's more common after a lot of repeated read/write cycles, but it can also happen as chips just get older. All of these chips have a spec for how long data will last without power, but old chips won't always meet the spec. I can see GA aircraft having issues after sitting for a longer period of time, or inconsistent behavior where gaps between use are just enough to cause issues with a weak chip. Hopefully avionics are designed well enough to detect configuration corruption and present a very obvious error when that happens.
flash chips are supposed to last tens of thousands of write cycles. So unless some other part of the transponder is so brain-dead that it programmatically re-writes the configuration data without the intervention of a human being, I would have a hard time believing that the write cycle limit would ever be reached.
This issue appears to be related to how the skybeacon product gathers transponder data, which it does by decoding electrical noise generated by the traditional transponder when transmitting. A transponder change could require "adjustment", which is done in the skybeacon app. I did not really pay attention to the video, but I believe the skybeacon firmware was also updated. This is something every pilot should pay attention to... always run the latest firmware.
The ADS-B report site is down this morning. "We are experiencing technical difficulties with the website and are working on a resolution as quickly as possible. We apologize for any inconvenience. Please check back..."
I once forgot to turn on the nav lights to which the ads-b out (uavionix sky beacon) is wired for power and by the time I took off and hit the downwind the tower told me they weren't getting my ads-b. That was at KMYF. In fact, it has happened twice. I'm surprised you got that far without anyone saying anything!
Thanks for this- valuable information. My ADSB unit periodically throws some errors and there seems to be frick-all information available about potential root causes of each failure bucket.
What always frustrates ma about failure messages in avionics is that the system knows exactly why its posted an error message, but theres no way to find out what it is. Had one recently garmin 345R intermittently no internal GPS. Actual fault? Antenna coax too short. Obviously a problem since installation. Who would have guessed.
That’s mostly correct, after getting the issue resolved you must do a performance verification flight, requiring another filing. Once the ADS-B team gets the satisfactory report, they will allow you to keep filing for every flight you wish to fly until the list is updated.
The FAA needs to hire some of the extended car warranty people ! Not only will they find you they use every means possible I.E. email,phone,mail and smoke signal.
Stuff like ADS-B is trivial functionality that should be part of the main display unit and able to check itself. It should notify if there is an issue and not be a bureaucratic discovery process. ATC itself should also have been automated 40 years ago which would have saved the Potomac accident and would also immediately spot an aircraft without transponder and launch missiles to take you out :) GA is in a tragic sorry state. It's unimpressive. Not only should these things be fixed but they should be made available in ways that doesn't cost 100k to install. We have this bureaucratic idiocy that ancient analog dials that are super dangerous to fly by are deemed 'certified' while an uncert Garmin G3x is deemed unclean in the wise eyes of the FAA. And obvious rule to implement is that planes with analog gauges are free to install a G3x or Dynon without certification because that is obviously vastly safer. Flying with synthetic vision in zero visibility vs analog is like night and day. We should not learn ways to compensate for the sorry state, the sorry state should be cleaned up and it's so easy to do if only FAA wasn't headless chickens. Mosaic is something a few good men hash out in a literal afternoon. While Elon is overtaxed and volatile, in a moment of clarity he's one that could instill a sense of urgency in a few choice FAA minds.
I was a really early adopter of ADSB in my 172, I had it installed in 2018 before the 2020 mandate. Shortly after my install, they detected that the transponder was not switching to ground mode automatically every time at the end of my flight. They sent me a letter in the mail showing that report, and I was able to get it fixed easily. I always thought they sent out those notices.
So it means there's receiver a response on the SSR system, ie you mode A/C/S transponder. TCAS (Traffic Collision Advisory System) is a system installed on the aircraft, not an ATC thing
I had the same issue as this 310 owner. The FAA guys working the ADS-B desk are very knowledgeable Avionics guys. Turns out it was a simple settings issue that the fed knew right off the top of his head with Dynon products.
So on my next checkride, if they ask about the transponder check requirement, I should now answer that I get one of these reports prior to each flight?!?!?
It’s somewhat of two different animals, however you may impress a DPE on a check ride if you show your 91.413 transponder check along with an ADS-B out performance report (if you are flying in ADS-B out required airspace)
Flash memory (‘doesn’t reset when power is removed) has been ubiquitous for 25 years, so, unless the transponder is older than that, the likelihood that the settings were wiped out by disconnecting the battery seems very low to me. Are there any ADS-B transponders that predate flash memory?
They're on the avionics bus anyway, with no keepalive or anything. The 335/345 have config modules that retain all the settings, so you SHOULD be able to just swap one without even going through the config. The technician should anyway, just because the config modules can get damaged. Always, always, always verify the settings. When it was reinstalled, it's output should have been tested, including mode S/ADS-B messages, as per the current FAR 91.413 requirement. Always, always, always verify the output. Getting a PAPR is a good idea. For a SIL error, the controller might never know there was a problem. The ADS-B messages will still be going out. Their first clue will probably be their red note.
Uniden Bearcat proved that Eeprom chips are unreliable. I have a KT78 and encoder in a box with all wiring and plugs, an antenna, and a 1/2 inch hole that's plugged. Let me know if C ever has any value again.
So, I am VFR only and my biennial transponder check is not current. The closest shop that performs these checks is inside a Mode-C veil. Does the ADAPT form need to be filled out before I fly to the shop or is there some other method of approval? I went to the performance monitor site and everything seems to be working fine.(Although I'm not sure this test has anything to do with the Mode S capabilities of my transponder.
If your ADS-B information is working properly, then no need for an Adapt form to be filled out. In the AFD, you should be able to find a TRACON number to call to get permission for the flight.
I don't understand why these reports would not be automatically sent from the authority. Just register your address and email. How is this not already done?
That would be nice!
It always was a half baked product. It took 20 years to implement, and they had to obsolete the open source GDL90 hardware in the process.
There's no way your transponder will lose its configuration because the battery was disconnected. Otherwise it would lose its configuration every time you shut off the master - which disconnects your battery. It's not like a car stereo where it requires constant battery voltage to maintain internal settings. Older GPS units like the GNS530 used an internal battery to maintain data, but modern avionics use EEPROM/Flash ROM which maintains state without power.
Unfortunately flash losing data when power is removed is a very real failure mode. EEPROM can do the same. It's more common after a lot of repeated read/write cycles, but it can also happen as chips just get older.
All of these chips have a spec for how long data will last without power, but old chips won't always meet the spec. I can see GA aircraft having issues after sitting for a longer period of time, or inconsistent behavior where gaps between use are just enough to cause issues with a weak chip.
Hopefully avionics are designed well enough to detect configuration corruption and present a very obvious error when that happens.
flash chips are supposed to last tens of thousands of write cycles. So unless some other part of the transponder is so brain-dead that it programmatically re-writes the configuration data without the intervention of a human being, I would have a hard time believing that the write cycle limit would ever be reached.
This issue appears to be related to how the skybeacon product gathers transponder data, which it does by decoding electrical noise generated by the traditional transponder when transmitting. A transponder change could require "adjustment", which is done in the skybeacon app. I did not really pay attention to the video, but I believe the skybeacon firmware was also updated. This is something every pilot should pay attention to... always run the latest firmware.
The ADS-B report site is down this morning. "We are experiencing technical difficulties with the website and are working on a resolution as quickly as possible. We apologize for any inconvenience. Please check back..."
That happens often
Have they been added to the No Services list?
What’s the website?
@@marcericdavis 😂
@@shooterreadyschannel9254 adsbperformance.faa.gov/PAPRRequest.aspx
I once forgot to turn on the nav lights to which the ads-b out (uavionix sky beacon) is wired for power and by the time I took off and hit the downwind the tower told me they weren't getting my ads-b. That was at KMYF. In fact, it has happened twice. I'm surprised you got that far without anyone saying anything!
Where’s Paul?
According to the article that I read, he retired due to some changes to AVweb's ownership.
@@johnalexander2349Nooooooooooooooo
@@johnalexander2349 WHAT?? Why am I still subscribed here then 👀
Thanks for this- valuable information.
My ADSB unit periodically throws some errors and there seems to be frick-all information available about potential root causes of each failure bucket.
What always frustrates ma about failure messages in avionics is that the system knows exactly why its posted an error message, but theres no way to find out what it is.
Had one recently garmin 345R intermittently no internal GPS.
Actual fault? Antenna coax too short. Obviously a problem since installation. Who would have guessed.
I was floored when he said his ATC friends just turn the ADS-B data off. WTF was the point???
Displaying a text box with all the available Adsb / mode s data beside each contact would massively clutter the screen.
Perfect example of “I’m from the government and here to help” scenario. And I thought service at the DMV was bad!
How about a link to the ADS-B report guys?
Ah thanks! We will get that added
SIL 0 is a GPS or integration issue where the transponder is saying "I'm not 100% sure my GPS position data is valid"
I was sited for flying after filing as you indicated. I was told that the filing is only to be used to fly for the purposes of repairing the ADS-B.
That’s mostly correct, after getting the issue resolved you must do a performance verification flight, requiring another filing. Once the ADS-B team gets the satisfactory report, they will allow you to keep filing for every flight you wish to fly until the list is updated.
The FAA needs to hire some of the extended car warranty people ! Not only will they find you they use every means possible I.E. email,phone,mail and smoke signal.
I hate that Garmin has become so prevalent in the Avionics space. G1000 launch was a disaster, aviation customer support was non existent.
Beautiful airport at 11 minutes. Where is that?
Telluride, CO
Stuff like ADS-B is trivial functionality that should be part of the main display unit and able to check itself. It should notify if there is an issue and not be a bureaucratic discovery process. ATC itself should also have been automated 40 years ago which would have saved the Potomac accident and would also immediately spot an aircraft without transponder and launch missiles to take you out :) GA is in a tragic sorry state. It's unimpressive. Not only should these things be fixed but they should be made available in ways that doesn't cost 100k to install. We have this bureaucratic idiocy that ancient analog dials that are super dangerous to fly by are deemed 'certified' while an uncert Garmin G3x is deemed unclean in the wise eyes of the FAA. And obvious rule to implement is that planes with analog gauges are free to install a G3x or Dynon without certification because that is obviously vastly safer. Flying with synthetic vision in zero visibility vs analog is like night and day. We should not learn ways to compensate for the sorry state, the sorry state should be cleaned up and it's so easy to do if only FAA wasn't headless chickens. Mosaic is something a few good men hash out in a literal afternoon. While Elon is overtaxed and volatile, in a moment of clarity he's one that could instill a sense of urgency in a few choice FAA minds.
So, what's the point of creating a red list anyway, what's the no services mean???
When they start enforcing the rules, it might mean you can’t fly inside the mode C vail and get any ATC services
It simply means they made an attempt to notify you, but you either did nothing or never received the notification.
I was a really early adopter of ADSB in my 172, I had it installed in 2018 before the 2020 mandate. Shortly after my install, they detected that the transponder was not switching to ground mode automatically every time at the end of my flight. They sent me a letter in the mail showing that report, and I was able to get it fixed easily. I always thought they sent out those notices.
They try to but the US mail isn’t always the most reliable.
If your plane is recorded in flight by flight aware and is correct, would that be an indication it’s working correctly?
Unfortunately no. FlightAware uses multiple different types of data sources to provide flight tracking.
Why didn't the avionics alert the pilot that a safety and compliance feature was inoperative?
So "radar contact" from ATC does NOT mean they see your ADS-B signal but rather a signature on their radar scope? (TCAS?)
So it means there's receiver a response on the SSR system, ie you mode A/C/S transponder. TCAS (Traffic Collision Advisory System) is a system installed on the aircraft, not an ATC thing
I had the same issue as this 310 owner. The FAA guys working the ADS-B desk are very knowledgeable Avionics guys. Turns out it was a simple settings issue that the fed knew right off the top of his head with Dynon products.
The FAA ADSB team might be one of the best groups to work with.
So on my next checkride, if they ask about the transponder check requirement, I should now answer that I get one of these reports prior to each flight?!?!?
It’s somewhat of two different animals, however you may impress a DPE on a check ride if you show your 91.413 transponder check along with an ADS-B out performance report (if you are flying in ADS-B out required airspace)
Flash memory (‘doesn’t reset when power is removed) has been ubiquitous for 25 years, so, unless the transponder is older than that, the likelihood that the settings were wiped out by disconnecting the battery seems very low to me. Are there any ADS-B transponders that predate flash memory?
They're on the avionics bus anyway, with no keepalive or anything. The 335/345 have config modules that retain all the settings, so you SHOULD be able to just swap one without even going through the config. The technician should anyway, just because the config modules can get damaged. Always, always, always verify the settings.
When it was reinstalled, it's output should have been tested, including mode S/ADS-B messages, as per the current FAR 91.413 requirement.
Always, always, always verify the output.
Getting a PAPR is a good idea.
For a SIL error, the controller might never know there was a problem. The ADS-B messages will still be going out. Their first clue will probably be their red note.
Uniden Bearcat proved that Eeprom chips are unreliable. I have a KT78 and encoder in a box with all wiring and plugs, an antenna, and a 1/2 inch hole that's plugged. Let me know if C ever has any value again.
Is this during extended squitter use or is it with UAT or both?
Both
are you going tto make a video on the american airlines MAC over the potomac
So, I am VFR only and my biennial transponder check is not current. The closest shop that performs these checks is inside a Mode-C veil. Does the ADAPT form need to be filled out before I fly to the shop or is there some other method of approval? I went to the performance monitor site and everything seems to be working fine.(Although I'm not sure this test has anything to do with the Mode S capabilities of my transponder.
If your ADS-B information is working properly, then no need for an Adapt form to be filled out. In the AFD, you should be able to find a TRACON number to call to get permission for the flight.
@ Thanks, I appreciate the information.
Yes, I use the ADAPT form to penetrate the DTW BRAVO each year to attend a big camping Flyin, have transponder but no ADS-B
Is this really a video about “something was wrong with my plane and I had to fix it”? Maybe I’m missing the point.
yes. another thing that can go wrong and how you might deal with it.
Transponders do fail, even the best.
Bet if youd busted some regulation faa would have managed to find you.
Dont they have phones?
I guess we all need to become avionics technicians just to keep our junk flying.
ADSB is a crutch - Eyes out and live, FAA is regulatory not experts...