Here's the value in a "hard magic" system. We can intuitively infer the reason why Ed and Alphonse were tangled in the transmutation because they offered fresh blood from themselves. Something the story never comments on or implies but we can decipher based on others actions and the varying outcomes of any human alchemy.
WHAAAAAAAAAT?!?!?!!? Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood is my favorite anime of all time!!!! That's SO GENIUS!!!!! I never thought of that!!!! 😂Whoaaa!!!!😮😮😮😮
@princessthyemis lol sarcasm or not it's systems like these that helps us believe things like Toph being able to metal bend and the clever outcomes of Light vs Kira in regards to rules lawyering the Death Note.
I believe it actually does? When Ed posits that he may responsible for supplying nutrients and maintaining bodily functions for Al's body, he uses the blood link as a reason to explain why they would be connected like that. However, Ed falling unconscious/being close to death resulting in Alphonse's soul being drawn back to his original body back in the Briggs arc was something that was completely inferred and shown but not told.
@@Birthday888 I didn't even think about that last part! We could comfortably say that Ed is shouldering the nutritional and sleep load of Alphonse, but why didn't I ever realize Alphonse fading away was the result of his "anchor" almost dying? Such a great show.
Aside from HxH and FMA, I loved the magic system of Mistborn where the users use metals as a source of power. I wish we get an animation for that, or at least Comic/Manga version
Allomancy is elegantly designed and explained, but I could honestly take it or leave it. Feruchemy though, is the absolute coolest shit ever. It's so interesting on every level and the limitations and strengths of it are a lot more engaging to me than people getting superpowers by eating metal. Not to mention that the interaction between the two is absurdly broken in the best possible way.
I always felt that the way Worm would oscillate between hard and soft magic was really cool. The way it starts out with very defined rules but noticeable elements that don't line up and then as it progresses things only start to get weirder and less clear until none of the rules seem to actually apply without either extreme deviation or exception. When finally the whole system gets recontextualised and it sort of makes sense, only to get recontextualised again at which point everything finally actually clicks into place.
honestly wards powers kind of got overcomplicated to me if i have to have 3 paragraphs to explain how someone's power works and on what day i start to tune it out
@@wander1139 Admittedly I never tried that hard to understand the intricacies of the way the powers evolved in Ward, I took it in in broad strokes. For instance I think understanding that Scion's death caused the shards to stop being able to operate properly was way more important than actually understanding how a broken trigger worked.
@@tristanlee8495 honestly what kind of ruined it for me is they had 2 many characters who's powers were dependent on specific situations it made it hard to follow what is happening when characters could kind of just have powers or lose powers seemingly on a wim
Another fantastic quality of FMA's magic system is its simplicity. "What if chemistry could be done with magic circles." And then throw the wrench into the middle of the system of "How do you quantify the value of a soul in a system with no loss or gain of energy" and bam you have a hard magic system with a very specific loophole.
@HelloFutureMe Very true! I just wanna make sure you know your old work is still loved and appreciated! I used to walk two miles to work every day when this channel was still small and just listen to you the entire way, rewatching (listening mostly) videos over and over again. Thank you doesn't even come close to letting you know how much I have appreciated you being in my life!
Hunter X Hunter's nen system is my favorite hard magic system ever. It may seem predictable but there are so many rules and factors that can influence a battle's outcome you never can be quite sure, and it puts special emphasis on creativity and personality, so every character's skill will reflect that and be unique.
Even better: they knew the rule against it and chose to ignore it, their own hubris leading to this result. They assumed the rule was due to others not having all the information needed.
That's an ethical law, not a magical law. For example, it's possible to travel at speeds up to, but not past, the speed of light. This is a physical law. The Speed Limit law is one instituted by humans as a self-limiter. Sure, a car's speedometer can go above 100 mph, but no government would ever allow anyone to go beyond 80 because then they become a hazard to themselves and everyone around them.
I still think one of my favorite magic systems comes from Black Clover. Not because its something completely unique, but because of how each mage uses their magic and how that avoids definitive powerscaling. Despite the world being entirely based around magic, the pure power of a person's magic is rarely whats being focused on. Instead, fights usually come down to pure strategy. They're never about magic itself, rather, how each character uses their magic to give themselves the advantage. A character can beat someone who is completely out of their league using superior strategy, even if the power differential is miles away (if you've read the manga you know exactly what I'm talking about.) It makes fights incredibly interesting, because even if one side of a conflict is definitively weaker, they can still gain an upper hand in combat with the tactics they employ. In fact, a vast majority of the time, the protagonists are weaker than the villains they're fighting, and they have to win by using their minds rather than just brute force. This also allows the series to have some of my favorite team based fights. In a lot of shonen, team battles just kind of turn out as "they're all doing their own thing... but at the same time." Instead, Black Clover uses its style of magic to make incredibly strategic team battles where each player is doing their part to help the others. The team battles allow them to feel like actual teams because they're actually helping each other, and using each of their abilities where they're most needed. The series is aware of this too, as it consistently mentions compatibility with your enemy as well as your teammates as a major factor to battles. In a lot of situations, this makes the support mages way more important than the actual attack oriented mages, as they sway the tide of battle for the attackers in ways that could never have been done without them. Without proper teamwork, every major character would have been dead by the 4th arc, without a doubt. Black Clover may be about magic, but it doesn't rely on magic entirely, and instead uses it as a tool to aid in figjts. That's what makes it so interesting despite its very basic execution for a magic system.
I like Wheel of time's magic system where they weave elemental threads to create patterns that produce certain effects. If you get the weave right then you will always get the desired effect but mess it up or pluck a thread out and some really unpredictable things can happen.
I got the books and I can't put them down and I keep re-reading them. So much good suggestions and information that always gets me excited to write and world build.
Fate be like: Touko: I can make this whole apartment float by combining a bunch of bounded fields to a Primeveal Rune and use my one hundred Magic Crest to sustain it. Aoko: AOZAKI KICK!!!
people are so overly sensitive about spoilers it genuinely baffles me that people care so much about that, one of my friends got torn into about spoiling Elden ring when he was warning another friend who was playing it that making a certain choice about 3/4 of the way through the game would lock you out of content you may not have already completed.
This comes off as implying that “hard magic” means “not random” but that’s not right, it means the magic follows well defined rules. Having a 20% chance to backfire is a well defined rule.
Ah hail our supreme overlord mishka you shall live on forever as was your grand desine Been watching since almost day 1 tom and it's not iffy at all it was good
Not true. One attempts to establish stakes intellectually, sort of like building a puzzle for the reader to observe and potentially solve, whereas the other attempts to establish stakes through the story, as the nuts and bolts are less important than the characters, the plot and/or the transcendent.
@@Capt.Thunder That sounds way to prescriptive as to the type of story you are writing in each one. The way the setting specific detail functions can have as much or as little to do with the central story as you want, and that doesn't really change based on broad genre conventions. You would probably have to dig into specific subgenres, like military science fiction or whatnot, to get that sort of distinction.
@@jpickens189 It's about where the focus is when establishing stakes, that's all. Hard magic systems prioritise puzzle-like elements, and they get people invested in it for that reason, either in the passive reveal of the solution (which makes logical sense), or in the active prediction of how to solve the conundrum yourself. Soft magic systems say: That's not important, (these other things) are the focus. Whether hard magic systems get in the way of the story or enhance it is partly down to a mix of personal taste, narrative pacing and novelty factor. If you disagree, give me examples that contradict my point. i.e. a hard magic system that doesn't tie its stakes to how the power system works (I have found instances of this in animé, but it is because it is a bad hard magic system that gives up caring about consistency), or a soft magic system that focuses heavily on the magic itself (rather than using it as wallpaper for the narrative and/or a confetti popper).
@@Capt.Thunder I am not engaging in a discussion about the differences between hard and soft magic systems, I am saying that the only difference between hard magic systems and technology (ie: science fiction) is how much of an explanation we expect in regards to the mechanics that are unique to the world, and that that is a pretty paltry difference. I will say that almost every good story with a hard magic system (look at Hunter x Hunter for example) isn't really about the highly detailed magic system, it is about the characters and their choices, and how those are expressed in a world with magic. There is generally very little room in the world for series that are centrally about solving puzzles, and most of those deteriorate in quality the moment the author starts to get a little bit lazy in their storytelling (ie: Death Note.)
@@jpickens189 Sorry, I think something went wrong somewhere with my reading comprehension. I think that you are generally right, they are similarly intellectual, although in a lot of more modern cases, sci-fi (especially science fantasy) often explains its technology system a lot more vaguely than a lot of hard magic systems unless it is an in-depth exploration of a particular concept that involves said technology (even then, it's often about the impact that has on the human condition rather than the mechanics itself). But it varies a lot, of course, so it can't really be easily generalised. Hunter x Hunter is actually massively overrated when it comes to its power system. The author gives up very quickly on making it make sense, and when it does make sense, he uses it in a very boring way. Cool concept, half-hearted execution at best. I enjoyed the show, it's got an excellent vibe and atmosphere and some memorable moments, but it has some whack pacing and was clearly being made up as the author went along. I would say that from 4th one onwards, JoJo's power system is actually pretty good, even if it gets away with being lazy at times by dialing the nonsense meter up to 11 for hilarious effect. Jujutsu Kaisen also has a more robust power system, although the show isn't to my taste. Most of the really hard magic systems I've seen are from fantasy novels, and you can usually appreciate the effort they went to, but it's not everyone's cup of tea.
As I said on the old video, the Scholomance series uses its hard magic system to great effect. It's very much about the idea of Actions Have Consequences, and if you don't plan those consequences out carefully, it'll backlash onto you in ways you didn't expect, and really don't want, no getting around it.
What's fun about the FMA reference is that throughout the entire series, everyone is entirely wrong about why human transmutation always fails. It has nothing to do with a soul. They're just using the wrong formula. If you listen to the list of ingredients and proportions they say in the show, they're all inaccurate.
Funny I’m making my own story and I hate my magic system but I also love it because it’s just for me complex with reality but also has good reward with big cost
Lore wise i like to play dnd with a hard magic system. I dont tell my newer players they cant cast a spell, but making them a little bit more monstrous when they exceed the limit is fun
i think it is nice to have a hard magic system... but you shouldnt tell the reader or the characters know all the rules. Let them theorize, let them make mistakes
My hard system; Can only shapeshift into vertebrates. Complications; You learn the nitty gritty details to make your body shift until it's muscle memory. Going from vry big to small creatures and vice versa costs way too much effort, like going from 3 lbs. at the gym to the 120 lbs. bar. Go progressively smaller. Every animal shape has itsmoros and cons, and you better know how to exploit them or stumble around.
I describe writing along the line of multiple kinds of romanticisms-one of which is the romance of complications, often masquerading as realism. Hard magic systems can create conflict by throwing a complication into the plot, which means that it can not neatly resolve. I personally am hesitant about this since you can easily fall into the trap of "oops, all trolley problems," which also sends the false message that life is complex because of dilemmas. I think that it's generally a good idea to err on the side of the romance of truth-that the hard magic system contributes to a central theme and truth that your story builds up to. In the case of FMA-that life has no free lunch if you're concerned with ethics.
Just to be clear HxH is not an hard magic system , its a soft magic system with some "techniques" required in order to use it similar to the magic system in Harry Potter series, there are no true limits to what a user of this magic systems can and can not do with it to make it an hard magic system.
You should look at Unsounded, a webcomic I've been reading for years. It's got a very in depth magic system with rules and consequences and the author talks about the creative liberties she takes and the "under the hood" stuff that's actually happening in her blog. It's a good read and fun insight into one person's creative vision!
How do you show instead of telling that the hard magic system is more complex than the characters understand without fully explaining the magic system? (yet)
Huh, reviving dead, really reminds me of fairy tail actually, main antagonist zeref was trying to do that and was cursed as result with immortality and taking lives around him when he values life, he tried to defy laws of magic and got cursed as result
Hard magic systems is algebra. 2x = 4. It's about knowing what's happening with both information and it's absence. Katara water bend clouds and sweat, but hama water bent the water from air and blood itself. Its a means to explain the world. But bumi is the only bender to bend crystals. Is crystal bending a specialty like combustion or lightning?
It is unpredictable though. Truth will take away whatever from you. Izumi and Al's sacrifices make sense, so does that one other character's. But Ed? Dude lost his ENTIRE BODY. He was basically dead if it weren't for Al. I know there's an in-universe reason for his sacrifice but it still feels somewhat arbitrary.
The problem with a hard magic system these days is that in this age of sifi around every corner a hard magic system sure SEEMS like just some science that isn't being treated like science for some reason and it gets worse the more sifi you watch, what really is the difference between a hard magic system and say the dark energy powers in mass effect for example besides that one has explained what it is in slightly dryer language
Here's a question: Can you build a hard magic system that is as indeterminate as quantum physics while still being hard, or does real life actually run a soft system?
For my world the magic is hard set there is very little room to manipulate it except one very old wizard figured out a loop hole because when you cast magic you're not just creating something from nothing you're actually summoning the object from somewhere else and fueling it with you're own mana like fireball you're not just summoning an exploding ball of fire from nowhere you're summoning a flame from say a candle and fueling it with raw energy but je found out that you could store massive amounts of mana and use the natural energy of the world to perform never before seen spells
You are my archangel future me. What do you see in eternities snare? But that which is aware, of the fundamental truths, you imbued into your own blucifer. Dont be bluficer. Find your own word. If i have to name you, i will.
To be honest, I've always felt the magic system in FMA seems arbitrary, and the "Law of Equivalent exchange" is BS. The values seem to change on a whim. For example: Ashes of Mother + added components (To make up for any missing in the ashes) + blood + 1 limb (Not intended) + 1 entire person, soul and all (also not intended) = Not a person, but instead some ghoulish creature in the shape of a person. Ok, that was a lot of stuff that went in, and not a lot that came out. And apparently 1 child, soul and body, isn't equivalent to either a fully restored body, or a soul. 5 minutes later: 1 limb = the ability to bind a soul to an object... Ok? Several episodes later, at the climax: 1 soul = a limb. Well, I guess that tracks with the exchange at the beginning... The ability to change the world with freaking magic = 1 person. I give up.
Hxh is definitely the best magic system as we as humans would definitely make a system that breaks down everything on how nen works. Most stories are basically sense ki chakra etc that is a blanket term but nen it's way more on how much imagination you have on a power that fits who you are Some break the system like biscuit being able to get a full night rest for 30 minutes of nene same woth knov on his space sinxe kurapika did say nen can't break the laws of physics or overdo what they have but that's probably the cost of the multiplier that is a big risk that is a big pay off
Eh, maybe for you. I personally don't like the idea that someone could use up their entire life's potential access to nen at once. (Gon in Chimera Ant Arc). There are certain moments in HxH where Nen falls short of explaining stuff, which is why it isn't a good comparison to a magic system like Alchemy
@@mars7304 I have a hard time thinking of anything in the series that couldn't be explained by the rules of nen. I personally love that Gon had the character flaws that led him to make the choice to basically throw his life away.
Jojo is what happens when you replace rigor in your hard magic system with extreme charisma and style, but keep the guile-based fights the system enables. It also absolutely _slaps._
Selling 100K copies because you're big on youtube means nothing to me. Write all the books you want but as a filmmaker who went to college for it, your knowledge is shaky.
![On Writing: hard magic systems in fantasy [ Avatar l Fullmetal Alchemist l Mistborn ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/iMJQb5bGu_g/mqdefault.jpg)
![On Writing: hard magic systems in fantasy [ Avatar l Fullmetal Alchemist l Mistborn ]](/img/tr.png)
![On Writing: the first chapter [ Logan l Avatar l Fault in our Stars l 1984 ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pUJOtTAJHXk/mqdefault.jpg)
Tinky winky click the linky linktr.ee/timhickson what's YOUR favourite hard magic system?
Definitely Nen from Hunter X Hunter.
Ool
A question: is there an audiobook version of your books? I don't have much time reading but I have plenty to listen...
I really loved the magic system in the Kingkiller Chronicles
Here's the value in a "hard magic" system. We can intuitively infer the reason why Ed and Alphonse were tangled in the transmutation because they offered fresh blood from themselves. Something the story never comments on or implies but we can decipher based on others actions and the varying outcomes of any human alchemy.
WHAAAAAAAAAT?!?!?!!? Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood is my favorite anime of all time!!!! That's SO GENIUS!!!!! I never thought of that!!!! 😂Whoaaa!!!!😮😮😮😮
@princessthyemis lol sarcasm or not it's systems like these that helps us believe things like Toph being able to metal bend and the clever outcomes of Light vs Kira in regards to rules lawyering the Death Note.
I believe it actually does? When Ed posits that he may responsible for supplying nutrients and maintaining bodily functions for Al's body, he uses the blood link as a reason to explain why they would be connected like that.
However, Ed falling unconscious/being close to death resulting in Alphonse's soul being drawn back to his original body back in the Briggs arc was something that was completely inferred and shown but not told.
@@Birthday888 I didn't even think about that last part! We could comfortably say that Ed is shouldering the nutritional and sleep load of Alphonse, but why didn't I ever realize Alphonse fading away was the result of his "anchor" almost dying?
Such a great show.
I think the show (or maybe the 2003 anime) even shows a DNA helix during the scene. Some great, quiet storytelling
My magic system is HARD! because it doesn't skip arm and leg day.
That’s…mean. Welp at least my magic system still has me and my dog in tact 😂
lmao
Aside from HxH and FMA, I loved the magic system of Mistborn where the users use metals as a source of power. I wish we get an animation for that, or at least Comic/Manga version
I loved mistborn... It was my very first trilogy
We're gonna have a movie apparently
Allomancy is elegantly designed and explained, but I could honestly take it or leave it. Feruchemy though, is the absolute coolest shit ever. It's so interesting on every level and the limitations and strengths of it are a lot more engaging to me than people getting superpowers by eating metal. Not to mention that the interaction between the two is absurdly broken in the best possible way.
I think Sanderson has a lot of great examples of hard magic systems and how they interact with eachother is chaos
I was about to say, I felt like I'd seen this before 😂
I always felt that the way Worm would oscillate between hard and soft magic was really cool. The way it starts out with very defined rules but noticeable elements that don't line up and then as it progresses things only start to get weirder and less clear until none of the rules seem to actually apply without either extreme deviation or exception. When finally the whole system gets recontextualised and it sort of makes sense, only to get recontextualised again at which point everything finally actually clicks into place.
Woohoo! Worm reference!
@@Paradox484 wildbow fans always get so excited to see references in the wild its great
honestly wards powers kind of got overcomplicated to me if i have to have 3 paragraphs to explain how someone's power works and on what day i start to tune it out
@@wander1139 Admittedly I never tried that hard to understand the intricacies of the way the powers evolved in Ward, I took it in in broad strokes. For instance I think understanding that Scion's death caused the shards to stop being able to operate properly was way more important than actually understanding how a broken trigger worked.
@@tristanlee8495 honestly what kind of ruined it for me is they had 2 many characters who's powers were dependent on specific situations it made it hard to follow what is happening when characters could kind of just have powers or lose powers seemingly on a wim
Another fantastic quality of FMA's magic system is its simplicity. "What if chemistry could be done with magic circles." And then throw the wrench into the middle of the system of "How do you quantify the value of a soul in a system with no loss or gain of energy" and bam you have a hard magic system with a very specific loophole.
The problem was not knowing it cost more than an arm and a leg
I.....I...Love that old video, though.... I love all those old videos. I watched them when they came out 😢
All Hail Our Supreme Leader Mishka!
Hey, we are always our own hardest critics, right? I love the videos still! Just a few wording differences.
~ Tim
@HelloFutureMe Very true! I just wanna make sure you know your old work is still loved and appreciated! I used to walk two miles to work every day when this channel was still small and just listen to you the entire way, rewatching (listening mostly) videos over and over again. Thank you doesn't even come close to letting you know how much I have appreciated you being in my life!
@@drasilvos8461 That's very kind of you to say!
~ Tim
Hunter X Hunter's nen system is my favorite hard magic system ever. It may seem predictable but there are so many rules and factors that can influence a battle's outcome you never can be quite sure, and it puts special emphasis on creativity and personality, so every character's skill will reflect that and be unique.
A Practical Guide to Evil’s Names somehow turn genre tropes and stories into a hard magic system, and somehow it _works._
Man I really need to finish reading APGtE
It's also got another magical hard magic system that Catherine is just too magically illiterate to understand.
@@tristanlee8495 you really do, book 5 is my favorite and book 7 is probably the best
Even better: they knew the rule against it and chose to ignore it, their own hubris leading to this result. They assumed the rule was due to others not having all the information needed.
obeying all the magical laws they know, well atleast if we dont care about that one tiny detail that you are not allowed to transfigure humans.
That's more like a... guideline, than an actual rule.
That's a country law not a magical law
That's an ethical law, not a magical law. For example, it's possible to travel at speeds up to, but not past, the speed of light. This is a physical law. The Speed Limit law is one instituted by humans as a self-limiter. Sure, a car's speedometer can go above 100 mph, but no government would ever allow anyone to go beyond 80 because then they become a hazard to themselves and everyone around them.
@@bluesbest1 German autobahns actually do have limits way above 80mph
I still think one of my favorite magic systems comes from Black Clover. Not because its something completely unique, but because of how each mage uses their magic and how that avoids definitive powerscaling.
Despite the world being entirely based around magic, the pure power of a person's magic is rarely whats being focused on. Instead, fights usually come down to pure strategy. They're never about magic itself, rather, how each character uses their magic to give themselves the advantage. A character can beat someone who is completely out of their league using superior strategy, even if the power differential is miles away (if you've read the manga you know exactly what I'm talking about.) It makes fights incredibly interesting, because even if one side of a conflict is definitively weaker, they can still gain an upper hand in combat with the tactics they employ. In fact, a vast majority of the time, the protagonists are weaker than the villains they're fighting, and they have to win by using their minds rather than just brute force.
This also allows the series to have some of my favorite team based fights. In a lot of shonen, team battles just kind of turn out as "they're all doing their own thing... but at the same time." Instead, Black Clover uses its style of magic to make incredibly strategic team battles where each player is doing their part to help the others. The team battles allow them to feel like actual teams because they're actually helping each other, and using each of their abilities where they're most needed. The series is aware of this too, as it consistently mentions compatibility with your enemy as well as your teammates as a major factor to battles. In a lot of situations, this makes the support mages way more important than the actual attack oriented mages, as they sway the tide of battle for the attackers in ways that could never have been done without them. Without proper teamwork, every major character would have been dead by the 4th arc, without a doubt.
Black Clover may be about magic, but it doesn't rely on magic entirely, and instead uses it as a tool to aid in figjts. That's what makes it so interesting despite its very basic execution for a magic system.
What about World Trigger?
@@Joshua_N-A I've never seen it, so I can't comment on it
I like Wheel of time's magic system where they weave elemental threads to create patterns that produce certain effects. If you get the weave right then you will always get the desired effect but mess it up or pluck a thread out and some really unpredictable things can happen.
I got the books and I can't put them down and I keep re-reading them. So much good suggestions and information that always gets me excited to write and world build.
Fate be like:
Touko: I can make this whole apartment float by combining a bunch of bounded fields to a Primeveal Rune and use my one hundred Magic Crest to sustain it.
Aoko: AOZAKI KICK!!!
Type Moon work on who can find the way to best break the rules behind they're own magic to victory
Wasn't expecting a Type moon reference. This got my sides tho lmao
A wizard did it🧙♂️
I love it when people will be in the comments like SPOILERS when this literally takes place within the first few seconds of the show, lol
SPOILERS FOR THE FIRST FIVE MINUTES OF EPISODE ONE OF A SHOW THAT CAME OUT TWENTY YEARS AGO
people are so overly sensitive about spoilers it genuinely baffles me that people care so much about that, one of my friends got torn into about spoiling Elden ring when he was warning another friend who was playing it that making a certain choice about 3/4 of the way through the game would lock you out of content you may not have already completed.
FULLMETAL ALCHEMIST YAAAAAY!!!!!
Rate that HxH was in the background. Nen deserves all props.
This comes off as implying that “hard magic” means “not random” but that’s not right, it means the magic follows well defined rules. Having a 20% chance to backfire is a well defined rule.
Ah hail our supreme overlord mishka you shall live on forever as was your grand desine
Been watching since almost day 1 tom and it's not iffy at all it was good
The only difference between hard magic systems and technology is the degree to which each is explained to the audience.
Not true. One attempts to establish stakes intellectually, sort of like building a puzzle for the reader to observe and potentially solve, whereas the other attempts to establish stakes through the story, as the nuts and bolts are less important than the characters, the plot and/or the transcendent.
@@Capt.Thunder That sounds way to prescriptive as to the type of story you are writing in each one. The way the setting specific detail functions can have as much or as little to do with the central story as you want, and that doesn't really change based on broad genre conventions. You would probably have to dig into specific subgenres, like military science fiction or whatnot, to get that sort of distinction.
@@jpickens189 It's about where the focus is when establishing stakes, that's all. Hard magic systems prioritise puzzle-like elements, and they get people invested in it for that reason, either in the passive reveal of the solution (which makes logical sense), or in the active prediction of how to solve the conundrum yourself. Soft magic systems say: That's not important, (these other things) are the focus.
Whether hard magic systems get in the way of the story or enhance it is partly down to a mix of personal taste, narrative pacing and novelty factor.
If you disagree, give me examples that contradict my point. i.e. a hard magic system that doesn't tie its stakes to how the power system works (I have found instances of this in animé, but it is because it is a bad hard magic system that gives up caring about consistency), or a soft magic system that focuses heavily on the magic itself (rather than using it as wallpaper for the narrative and/or a confetti popper).
@@Capt.Thunder I am not engaging in a discussion about the differences between hard and soft magic systems, I am saying that the only difference between hard magic systems and technology (ie: science fiction) is how much of an explanation we expect in regards to the mechanics that are unique to the world, and that that is a pretty paltry difference.
I will say that almost every good story with a hard magic system (look at Hunter x Hunter for example) isn't really about the highly detailed magic system, it is about the characters and their choices, and how those are expressed in a world with magic. There is generally very little room in the world for series that are centrally about solving puzzles, and most of those deteriorate in quality the moment the author starts to get a little bit lazy in their storytelling (ie: Death Note.)
@@jpickens189 Sorry, I think something went wrong somewhere with my reading comprehension. I think that you are generally right, they are similarly intellectual, although in a lot of more modern cases, sci-fi (especially science fantasy) often explains its technology system a lot more vaguely than a lot of hard magic systems unless it is an in-depth exploration of a particular concept that involves said technology (even then, it's often about the impact that has on the human condition rather than the mechanics itself). But it varies a lot, of course, so it can't really be easily generalised.
Hunter x Hunter is actually massively overrated when it comes to its power system. The author gives up very quickly on making it make sense, and when it does make sense, he uses it in a very boring way. Cool concept, half-hearted execution at best. I enjoyed the show, it's got an excellent vibe and atmosphere and some memorable moments, but it has some whack pacing and was clearly being made up as the author went along.
I would say that from 4th one onwards, JoJo's power system is actually pretty good, even if it gets away with being lazy at times by dialing the nonsense meter up to 11 for hilarious effect. Jujutsu Kaisen also has a more robust power system, although the show isn't to my taste.
Most of the really hard magic systems I've seen are from fantasy novels, and you can usually appreciate the effort they went to, but it's not everyone's cup of tea.
I think that it just have to be consistent and everything must be traceable back to the axioms.
As I said on the old video, the Scholomance series uses its hard magic system to great effect. It's very much about the idea of Actions Have Consequences, and if you don't plan those consequences out carefully, it'll backlash onto you in ways you didn't expect, and really don't want, no getting around it.
Really liked the magic system from Faraway Paladin.
Especially when you see the consequences
What's fun about the FMA reference is that throughout the entire series, everyone is entirely wrong about why human transmutation always fails.
It has nothing to do with a soul. They're just using the wrong formula. If you listen to the list of ingredients and proportions they say in the show, they're all inaccurate.
Funny I’m making my own story and I hate my magic system but I also love it because it’s just for me complex with reality but also has good reward with big cost
Lore wise i like to play dnd with a hard magic system. I dont tell my newer players they cant cast a spell, but making them a little bit more monstrous when they exceed the limit is fun
i think it is nice to have a hard magic system... but you shouldnt tell the reader or the characters know all the rules. Let them theorize, let them make mistakes
My hard system; Can only shapeshift into vertebrates.
Complications; You learn the nitty gritty details to make your body shift until it's muscle memory.
Going from vry big to small creatures and vice versa costs way too much effort, like going from 3 lbs. at the gym to the 120 lbs. bar. Go progressively smaller.
Every animal shape has itsmoros and cons, and you better know how to exploit them or stumble around.
I describe writing along the line of multiple kinds of romanticisms-one of which is the romance of complications, often masquerading as realism.
Hard magic systems can create conflict by throwing a complication into the plot, which means that it can not neatly resolve.
I personally am hesitant about this since you can easily fall into the trap of "oops, all trolley problems," which also sends the false message that life is complex because of dilemmas.
I think that it's generally a good idea to err on the side of the romance of truth-that the hard magic system contributes to a central theme and truth that your story builds up to.
In the case of FMA-that life has no free lunch if you're concerned with ethics.
Just to be clear HxH is not an hard magic system , its a soft magic system with some "techniques" required in order to use it similar to the magic system in Harry Potter series, there are no true limits to what a user of this magic systems can and can not do with it to make it an hard magic system.
God I love nen
it's SO GOOD! i'm not even a huge magic system nerd or anything but nen is genuinely incredible. complex, really fun, and so unique.
You should look at Unsounded, a webcomic I've been reading for years. It's got a very in depth magic system with rules and consequences and the author talks about the creative liberties she takes and the "under the hood" stuff that's actually happening in her blog. It's a good read and fun insight into one person's creative vision!
Hardest magic is Mash's power in Mashle
Haha i rewatched the ‘iffy’ video a couple days ago
How do you show instead of telling that the hard magic system is more complex than the characters understand without fully explaining the magic system? (yet)
Huh, reviving dead, really reminds me of fairy tail actually, main antagonist zeref was trying to do that and was cursed as result with immortality and taking lives around him when he values life, he tried to defy laws of magic and got cursed as result
Hard magic systems is algebra. 2x = 4. It's about knowing what's happening with both information and it's absence.
Katara water bend clouds and sweat, but hama water bent the water from air and blood itself. Its a means to explain the world.
But bumi is the only bender to bend crystals. Is crystal bending a specialty like combustion or lightning?
It is unpredictable though. Truth will take away whatever from you. Izumi and Al's sacrifices make sense, so does that one other character's. But Ed? Dude lost his ENTIRE BODY. He was basically dead if it weren't for Al.
I know there's an in-universe reason for his sacrifice but it still feels somewhat arbitrary.
Have you looked at the magic system on The Magicians?
By Feist?
@@dualwieldroxas358 Lev Grossman.
The problem with a hard magic system these days is that in this age of sifi around every corner a hard magic system sure SEEMS like just some science that isn't being treated like science for some reason and it gets worse the more sifi you watch, what really is the difference between a hard magic system and say the dark energy powers in mass effect for example besides that one has explained what it is in slightly dryer language
Here's a question: Can you build a hard magic system that is as indeterminate as quantum physics while still being hard, or does real life actually run a soft system?
For my world the magic is hard set there is very little room to manipulate it except one very old wizard figured out a loop hole because when you cast magic you're not just creating something from nothing you're actually summoning the object from somewhere else and fueling it with you're own mana like fireball you're not just summoning an exploding ball of fire from nowhere you're summoning a flame from say a candle and fueling it with raw energy but je found out that you could store massive amounts of mana and use the natural energy of the world to perform never before seen spells
My Magic system is a blend of a soft and hard sort as my friends read my draft fantasy stories it works
HELLO FUTURE ME HAS SEEN HXH????
You are my archangel future me. What do you see in eternities snare? But that which is aware, of the fundamental truths, you imbued into your own blucifer. Dont be bluficer. Find your own word. If i have to name you, i will.
(Algorithm comment)
My magic system is so hard 🥴😩
To be honest, I've always felt the magic system in FMA seems arbitrary, and the "Law of Equivalent exchange" is BS. The values seem to change on a whim. For example:
Ashes of Mother + added components (To make up for any missing in the ashes) + blood + 1 limb (Not intended) + 1 entire person, soul and all (also not intended) = Not a person, but instead some ghoulish creature in the shape of a person. Ok, that was a lot of stuff that went in, and not a lot that came out. And apparently 1 child, soul and body, isn't equivalent to either a fully restored body, or a soul.
5 minutes later: 1 limb = the ability to bind a soul to an object... Ok?
Several episodes later, at the climax: 1 soul = a limb. Well, I guess that tracks with the exchange at the beginning...
The ability to change the world with freaking magic = 1 person.
I give up.
This is why I’m not the biggest fan of jujutsu kaisen, magic system doesn’t make much sense…
Hxh is definitely the best magic system as we as humans would definitely make a system that breaks down everything on how nen works. Most stories are basically sense ki chakra etc that is a blanket term but nen it's way more on how much imagination you have on a power that fits who you are
Some break the system like biscuit being able to get a full night rest for 30 minutes of nene same woth knov on his space sinxe kurapika did say nen can't break the laws of physics or overdo what they have but that's probably the cost of the multiplier that is a big risk that is a big pay off
Eh, maybe for you. I personally don't like the idea that someone could use up their entire life's potential access to nen at once. (Gon in Chimera Ant Arc). There are certain moments in HxH where Nen falls short of explaining stuff, which is why it isn't a good comparison to a magic system like Alchemy
@@mars7304 I have a hard time thinking of anything in the series that couldn't be explained by the rules of nen. I personally love that Gon had the character flaws that led him to make the choice to basically throw his life away.
Jojo
Jojo is what happens when you replace rigor in your hard magic system with extreme charisma and style, but keep the guile-based fights the system enables.
It also absolutely _slaps._
What?
Man, I remember when I subbed for the How To Train Your Dragon theories.
116th
Huh, very interesting
China will be saved in Jesus name, Amen
Selling 100K copies because you're big on youtube means nothing to me. Write all the books you want but as a filmmaker who went to college for it, your knowledge is shaky.