The problem with high thrust is loading on the bearings which were designed to carry a load perpendicular to the shaft. Premature wear is likely. Learned that from a guy who rebuilds outdrive marine engines.
I find it to very doubtful that the people engineered these motors have no idea about shaft wear, I think it mostly come down to improper propeller attachment for such motors (even though these considered universal motors)
@@dexterjsullen The bearings that can handle thrust forces are tapered roller bearings. That's what's used in wheel bearings on cars and trucks. I learned about this problem from a man who rebuilt marine propulsion (outboard motors)
Bearings which are designed to carry loads perpendicular to the shaft are called thrust bearings. One can be added onto a carrier block at the output shaft while the motor can maintain its rotational inner bearings so that everything stays in line
I personally think this test was underrated. When the control strap was stretched tight, the test was no longer valid. But it did set a lower limit. Meaning it has more thrust than this test obtained. See? It has more thrust power than shown, plus it was past the test limits of the scale being used. Probably what is needed is a 100kg digital load cell scale. Why? Because the spring moves too far, and let's the propellor approach the ground. A very careful examination of both propellor diameter and pitch, (like the Wright Brothers did with their propellor in a wind tunnel like device is needed to see what effect forward travel has on the thrust.
Hello Paul, thanks a lot. I have intentionally limited the travel due to the "nature" of the test, unfortunately I don't have room and tools for this test. The other thing to take in count is the hook point that increase a little bit the value but, doing the math taking in count the arm moment" I have obtained 40 kg (the scale showed 42 kg of thrust but is difficult to see in the video)
actually don't because most applications are pusher, not a tractor, and shielding of the propeller isn't factored in. Also, static thrust is really only of interest to lift engines and maybe a small time during nil wind flatland type takeoffs. Also, a proportion of the blade is likely to be stalled if it's a sizable pitch, better to know thrust and power rating at a velocity typical of the flight envelope but obviously, that is harder to determine..
@@WhatAmIGonnaGet Right, because everyone knows they tell you the max thrust of the engines as soon as you board. Did you think your snarky comment was clever?
Hi Luca, congratulations on your testing :) Just a little niggle, Ah (Ampere hours) is a unit of electrical charge, not current flow. Drop the 'h' ;) Your results correlate nicely with mine. Assuming your lipo packs operate similarly to mine (Voltage sag) you are consuming 8.6kW of power (128A x 67V) for 35kg of thrust with a 36x14" prop. To compare I consumed 7.9kW for 33kg of thrust with a 36x12" wooden prop. The main difference in power consumption most probably being my 12" pitched prop to your 14". At 40kg thrust I estimate you were consuming 9.6kW of power (143A x 67A), did you happen to put your hand on the motor casing after finishing the test? I would be interested to know how hot the motor was at that load? For me temperature is not a problem but I have only ever loaded our motor to 8kW. It would also be good to know your actual Voltage to the ESC, then you will know the true power being consumed. With future testing, hopefully Mark Lee will share some test data with us soon (that's a hint Mark!!!). It would be great to observe a 12090 motor being run right up to destruction of the coils.
Hi Brendan, glad to receive your feedback (I don't have the original video to fix the error on the current unit). I am happy that we obtained a good consistency in our test and also that the brushless has been built with a very high quality and has been standardized very well. Regards the temperature, I brought with me the temperature sensor the day of the test but unfortunately I broke it. I remember that was impossible to touch it for more than 1sec so was probably at 120°C or more. The engine was at full throttle for 3min and then up and down between the tree power steps showed in the test. Probably I will do another test to simulate a take off: 2min full power, 1min 70% taking measure of the temperature and then the throttle enough to have 17kg of thrust that could be little more than the thrust needed for level flight.
120°C, wonder what the temp was in the coils? Sounds like you might be are at the power limit of the motor, I'm thinking you wouldn't want to leave it on full-throttle for too long. Luckily for us we only want full-power for a short period of time :)
My adventure...Well a couple of months ago I tried a flatland launch and it was bad :( I couldn't keep the glider in a straight line and ended turning sideways to wind. Bent a HG downtube and dinged my pride ;) I went over the attempt afterwards and figured out a few things: the motor-boom leg was too short so the prop hit the ground, my harness electrics are too low on my body so when I'm running aluminium is hitting the back of my legs, my launch technique is wrong - I was tilting my body forward (like a running non-powered HG launch) which gave me less control with power. I am now halfway through modifications to hopefully address all these things. I also bought another glider for normal HG, very distracting :)
Hello Luca, first of all, a great video and alot of informations that you share. Thank you very much for that ! One question left. Mybe I have overseen it somehow ? What ESC did you use ? Or do you have even a link to the Website? Thanks in advance !
Luca Silvestri I have no special project yet. Just collecting some informations and try to find out which components work best together with the large motors.
hey cool you are not alone ! I invented a new kind of wind turbine and tested it by mounting it on top of my car and driving car at 50 mph on the top floor of MIT parking garage.
hello lucas! excellent video! lotta thanks! could you tell me the size of the propeller please? and also (eventually), his references? also, where did you buy this monster-motor? thanks to care brother ;)
@@siluc415 oh yes pitch is important in relation with airspeed. i got here 36x10 prop will test in september. for me 10-12 pitch is better for paraglider but for hang glider 14 is better agree wiith you. i'm looking forward to your project, we are working on very similar thing with the 12090 brushless, you for hg and i'm for pg application :)
Che diametro ha l elica? Quanti kw produce il motore? Quanti giri fa l elica per una spinta di 40 kg? Grazie.Sono sicuro che questi dati interessano anche ad altri.
I don't have anymore the propeller but I think you can find it in the other comments. I run the motor for only 3 minutes and the temperature was about 100 deg.
@@arcanablood-demon9272 ciao! Lo sto ancora costruendo a dirla tutta. Tutto in carbonio per ridurre al minimo i pesi. Spero a breve di poterlo testare. Tu che stai costruendo?
Such thrust-tests serve only the purpose of comparison of engines, motors and propellers... I think, at higher speeds, propellers deliver less thrust for a given power, even think that static thrust-tests (as the above) are the case, were propellers work most optimally... I think it has to do with the rising aerodynamic drag of propellers themselves, the faster the aircraft flies into the wind, thus making propellers less and less efficient, the higher the aircraft-speed is...
The 12090 is longer stator and magnet than GS model CA120-80 as well hobbyking rotormax 150 . They come from same engineer who are from our company now.
What the type of Motors that I should using it to fly with 100kg...and is it the same programming of normal drone by arduino?? What the cost of one motor
Wtf imagine casually parking your car and some dude is running some jet sounding propeller off his car 🤣
hahahah
:)
Instablaster...
🤣
Motor name..?
Kv..??
Looks like a nice facility with many safeguards in place…
Thankyou for sharing, you have inspired our test rig!
I love how you got it attached to what appears to be a Jaguar
great work and seems another step closer to your goal , congratulations , keep up the good work , great to see another EPPG coming to life :-)
Thanks Calvin, yesterday I did the frame...will be useful for both paraglider and hanglider...I hope:)
@@siluc415 I'm working on mine too. I have my frame, motor, prop, and controller. I am just waiting for my harness to arrive. 👍😀👍
@@siluc415 what are the motor and propeller used please.
And do you think having some sort of duct on the prop will increase thrust?
Thanks, appreciate your effort. 👍👍
The problem with high thrust is loading on the bearings which were designed to carry a load perpendicular to the shaft. Premature wear is likely. Learned that from a guy who rebuilds outdrive marine engines.
I find it to very doubtful that the people engineered these motors have no idea about shaft wear, I think it mostly come down to improper propeller attachment for such motors (even though these considered universal motors)
@@dexterjsullen The bearings that can handle thrust forces are tapered roller bearings. That's what's used in wheel bearings on cars and trucks. I learned about this problem from a man who rebuilt marine propulsion (outboard motors)
Bearings which are designed to carry loads perpendicular to the shaft are called thrust bearings.
One can be added onto a carrier block at the output shaft while the motor can maintain its rotational inner bearings so that everything stays in line
I personally think this test was underrated. When the control strap was stretched tight, the test was no longer valid. But it did set a lower limit. Meaning it has more thrust than this test obtained. See? It has more thrust power than shown, plus it was past the test limits of the scale being used. Probably what is needed is a 100kg digital load cell scale. Why? Because the spring moves too far, and let's the propellor approach the ground. A very careful examination of both propellor diameter and pitch, (like the Wright Brothers did with their propellor in a wind tunnel like device is needed to see what effect forward travel has on the thrust.
Hello Paul, thanks a lot. I have intentionally limited the travel due to the "nature" of the test, unfortunately I don't have room and tools for this test. The other thing to take in count is the hook point that increase a little bit the value but, doing the math taking in count the arm moment" I have obtained 40 kg (the scale showed 42 kg of thrust but is difficult to see in the video)
actually don't because most applications are pusher, not a tractor, and shielding of the propeller isn't factored in. Also, static thrust is really only of interest to lift engines and maybe a small time during nil wind flatland type takeoffs. Also, a proportion of the blade is likely to be stalled if it's a sizable pitch, better to know thrust and power rating at a velocity typical of the flight envelope but obviously, that is harder to determine..
Congratulations, excelente experimento!!!
If this little propeller can produce 40kgs of thrust, I can imagine the power 4 massive jet engines make
When you grow up and make money you can buy a plane ticket and travel on a Boeing and find out.
@@WhatAmIGonnaGet Right, because everyone knows they tell you the max thrust of the engines as soon as you board. Did you think your snarky comment was clever?
Holy crap that's insane!
Ideal way of demonstrating to a old school mechanical engineer 👍
Hi Luca, congratulations on your testing :) Just a little niggle, Ah (Ampere hours) is a unit of electrical charge, not current flow. Drop the 'h' ;) Your results correlate nicely with mine. Assuming your lipo packs operate similarly to mine (Voltage sag) you are consuming 8.6kW of power (128A x 67V) for 35kg of thrust with a 36x14" prop. To compare I consumed 7.9kW for 33kg of thrust with a 36x12" wooden prop. The main difference in power consumption most probably being my 12" pitched prop to your 14". At 40kg thrust I estimate you were consuming 9.6kW of power (143A x 67A), did you happen to put your hand on the motor casing after finishing the test? I would be interested to know how hot the motor was at that load? For me temperature is not a problem but I have only ever loaded our motor to 8kW. It would also be good to know your actual Voltage to the ESC, then you will know the true power being consumed. With future testing, hopefully Mark Lee will share some test data with us soon (that's a hint Mark!!!). It would be great to observe a 12090 motor being run right up to destruction of the coils.
Forgot to ask, how much throttle % were you commanding for 40kg thrust?
Hi Brendan, glad to receive your feedback (I don't have the original video to fix the error on the current unit). I am happy that we obtained a good consistency in our test and also that the brushless has been built with a very high quality and has been standardized very well. Regards the temperature, I brought with me the temperature sensor the day of the test but unfortunately I broke it. I remember that was impossible to touch it for more than 1sec so was probably at 120°C or more. The engine was at full throttle for 3min and then up and down between the tree power steps showed in the test. Probably I will do another test to simulate a take off: 2min full power, 1min 70% taking measure of the temperature and then the throttle enough to have 17kg of thrust that could be little more than the thrust needed for level flight.
@@brendan8978 full throttle, how is going with your powered harness?
120°C, wonder what the temp was in the coils? Sounds like you might be are at the power limit of the motor, I'm thinking you wouldn't want to leave it on full-throttle for too long. Luckily for us we only want full-power for a short period of time :)
My adventure...Well a couple of months ago I tried a flatland launch and it was bad :( I couldn't keep the glider in a straight line and ended turning sideways to wind. Bent a HG downtube and dinged my pride ;) I went over the attempt afterwards and figured out a few things: the motor-boom leg was too short so the prop hit the ground, my harness electrics are too low on my body so when I'm running aluminium is hitting the back of my legs, my launch technique is wrong - I was tilting my body forward (like a running non-powered HG launch) which gave me less control with power. I am now halfway through modifications to hopefully address all these things. I also bought another glider for normal HG, very distracting :)
A great way to adjust your alignment lol
:-) ahahahah I like this idea
What motor, esc, and battery did you use did you use?
great video. thanks. i enjoy. good job. great.
Heavenly father, thank you for giving us your humble servant Nikola Tesla and for polyphase AC current 🙏 amen ☦️
it's great 👍 ! it's amazing idea, i like this video.
Damn that's strong
Ciao, pensi che 2 di questi motori possano spingere una persona in immersione? (ammesso che siano waterproof)
Can you please tell me which ESC are you using, and which ESC is best for ROTORMAX 150CC motor. Thanks
Hello Luca,
first of all, a great video and alot of informations that you share.
Thank you very much for that !
One question left. Mybe I have overseen it somehow ?
What ESC did you use ? Or do you have even a link to the Website?
Thanks in advance !
Thanks a lot, which is your project because the company can provide you several versions?
Luca Silvestri I have no special project yet. Just collecting some informations and try to find out which components work best together with the large motors.
You should use a safety chain just in case your rope or scale brakes.
The propeller would be found in Australia
hey cool you are not alone ! I invented a new kind of wind turbine and tested it by mounting it on top of my car and driving car at 50 mph on the top floor of MIT parking garage.
hello lucas! excellent video! lotta thanks! could you tell me the size of the propeller please? and also (eventually), his references? also, where did you buy this monster-motor? thanks to care brother ;)
Это можно применить при вытягивании вмятин в кузове авто. Вначале видео почему-то так и подумал.
Nice. What is your ESC?
Hello, the ampere is a unit of current flow and an ampere hour is the electric charge accumulated in an hour with one ampere. 1 Ah = 3600 Coulombs.
what motor did you use ? turnihy ? what brand what type. what [propellor did you use ?
Hi! I was just wondering what equipment you’re running here. What size prop is that? Thanks!
Prop 36x14, 18s lipo battery, 120090 brushless 80Kv
super video :))))) Thanx :)))
so... is it the rotor blade making most of the noise there? because it sounds just like the gas powered ones
the question everyone wish to know: and for how long can it stay on?✔️
Hi what model of engine and propeller
It is a brushless 15kW called 12090, prop is a 40 inch
Hi, Did you got to fly it? :) is the motor the 80kv version? Do you think that it would lift a 55kg pilot, with a 40inch prop? Thank you
Yes it is 80kv. I am not sure about using 40inch propeller. Probably you will overheat the motor. Try the 120100 or the 15470
@@siluc415 thank you for your answer! Then i will use it with 36" prop. 120100 is 1kg heavier and I don't need the extra power
Hi can you tell us the spec of the motor, esc, lipo? thanks
Damn that makes more thrust than my 76cc twin cylinder
Amazing video. What volts are you using, count of lipos?
18S lipo pack ... what are you thinking to make?
@@siluc415 a private project thanks! :)- Im really looking for a motor like yours, 40kg of thrust but I need low kv, what kv rating is yours?
Cool! What is the name of the battery? ?
Hi, looks great! What size is the prop? Do you still using 18s? Regards, Roland
Roland Falusi Hi, I am using a 36 inch prop and 18s pack😉
@@siluc415 thanks for reply. and what is the pitch of the prop?
Roland Falusi regards the pitch depend on your flying speed and the relative thrust that you need at that speed. In my case the pitch is 14
@@siluc415 oh yes pitch is important in relation with airspeed. i got here 36x10 prop will test in september. for me 10-12 pitch is better for paraglider but for hang glider 14 is better agree wiith you. i'm looking forward to your project, we are working on very similar thing with the 12090 brushless, you for hg and i'm for pg application :)
Roland Falusi of course and at the moment the idea is to create something that I can swap between paraglider and hanglider
Where you buy these
Where did you get this Motor?
What is the voltage and current rating of the motor?
Che diametro ha l elica? Quanti kw produce il motore?
Quanti giri fa l elica per una spinta di 40 kg?
Grazie.Sono sicuro che questi dati interessano anche ad altri.
Italia Cosplay Ciao, elica da 36 pollici e per i giri non avevo disponibile il contagiri ma dovremmo stare sui 4300
Best boos
hi, please what kind of motor and prop are you using??
Ciao,dove hai acquistato questo motore?
Hi Luca, can u tell where did u get all those materials from?
because even i want to buy them and test, the exact same setup of urs
Freerchobby
Hi ! What's the size of the prop ? Did the prop overheat the motor? You have enough thrust to takeoff from a flat ground ? Thx
I don't have anymore the propeller but I think you can find it in the other comments. I run the motor for only 3 minutes and the temperature was about 100 deg.
Ciao, sei italiano? Stavi costruendo anche tu un paramotore elettrico?
@@arcanablood-demon9272 ciao! Lo sto ancora costruendo a dirla tutta. Tutto in carbonio per ridurre al minimo i pesi. Spero a breve di poterlo testare. Tu che stai costruendo?
Anche io lo sto costruendo, ho fatto già qualche test ! Se vuoi ti mando qualche foto su Whatsapp così ci scambiamo idee e opinioni 3665392569
maybe it's even more, because if you think about it, the motor is pulling not in a linear way
Can I get motor specifications and from where you buy it.?
What about FRC MP 15060 which is very similar on weight and stronger.
I found it very interesting
Where to buy the motor
Motor? Propeller? Battery?
Pls what is the name of that motor where can I get it
Can you compare that with the flight thrust? Some propellers may work better with a bit of flightspeed
Such thrust-tests serve only the purpose of comparison of engines, motors and propellers... I think, at higher speeds, propellers deliver less thrust for a given power, even think that static thrust-tests (as the above) are the case, were propellers work most optimally... I think it has to do with the rising aerodynamic drag of propellers themselves, the faster the aircraft flies into the wind, thus making propellers less and less efficient, the higher the aircraft-speed is...
Can you tell me a motor that can lift 45 kg with one motor? please
what make of motor is that?
wow
What Ah means in this aspect?
What kind brushless motor that use on it ?
Frchobby 12090 80Kv
@@siluc415 really cool, no wonder it's look so powerful. Thank's for the info.
Wow where can I get that motor
✌🏻🔥🔥🥇
Ye will you get same thrush once you are high up amd the air around you is less dense
At the designed cruise speed at 150mt Asl, I have 10 kg of excess thrust.
The engine is it rotomax 1.6 wish ESC do you use
Can you give me type of that brushless motor
That’s a one defacto way to sort your tracking out if I ever seen one.
👏👍
Hello, What tension is it ?
The battery pack is LiPo 18S 22Ah, about 75V fully charged
Where I will get this motor??
how much does such a dynamo cost?, and how much does it cost?🤔
Where do I get it
how many kilowatts of mator ?
How many engine revolutions?
What is the weight of the motor?
What is the screw deameter ?
Screw pitch?
what do you want to fabricate? Let me find the notes
sapresti dirmi che motore hai usato?
12090 80Kv della freerchobby
12090 80Kv della freerchobby
you can do a tripuled aircraft
nice job, is this the hobbyking rotormax 150 engine thanks
It is something close to it, it is called ls12090
Thank you i 've heard about gsmodels.com a chinese company! the reference is CA120-80-13 it is looking close!!
The 12090 is longer stator and magnet than GS model CA120-80 as well hobbyking rotormax 150 . They come from same engineer who are from our company now.
Hi Mark thanks from reply are you from gsmodels? I am looking to buy the ca 120-80-13 but with the redrive and i need more data! May you help?
no, it is Mp12090 motors, not from hobbyking.
Could you please implement this on a non-electric bicycle?
Why not install it behind the car and drive the car using this Fan?
Where I can buy this motor?
Qué regio choy, podrías probar eso en tu lamborghini murciélago?
Why on car's Wheels?
Dam you will loose a limb standing near that
Чтобы поехал ещё осталось зацепить 20 штук
I thought of doing precisely this type of test in 2020, only with a rocket!
I am close to deploy the powered harness
What the type of Motors that I should using it to fly with 100kg...and is it the same programming of normal drone by arduino?? What the cost of one motor
It depends on the wing that you have;)
Che besta!
How much price
Mate I’d have absolutely lmao 🤣 if it had pulled the wheel off 😂
that thing can lift me up from the FREAKING ground
Which motor you used in this
Frchobby 12090 80Kv
That is some scary sounding shit
Which motor is this
Motor name..?
Kv...?
Motor name please tell us
what screw? 28x10?
36x14;)
Ciao! Per cortesia, che motore è quello?
Freerchobby 12090
Wow, that is a way to remove a dent from your car
Can any tell.me which motor is this ans esc used here
It is called freerchobby 12090
Bhai ye mortar ki price kya hai please batao
😉😉😉👍👍👍
Motor details???