I know people who wanted a career in the biotech industry that did a postdoc simply because a postdoc allowed them to gain techniques and skills that would allow them to get their preferred job. Most graduate students lack the critical knowledge to pick their the techniques and question they are most interesting to them and highly desirable for potential employees. After a couple of years of doing a postdoc they had no problem finding a job. I know of no faculty member that thinks an industry is a bad outcome. I know for a fact that in evaluating graduate programs both NIH and NSF consider an industry job is a good outcome.
Thanks for your input. There are certainly valuable skills that can be learned during a postdoc, but rarely are those extra skills worth the opportunity cost of additional years spent in academia not learning how industry works.
Wow! I just saw a random recommendation on TH-cam and decided to play it. I watched wonderful content and I have exactly the same thoughts as you. You are very sorted. I am about to conclude my Ph.D. in Chemistry and have realized that I am not the academic material. So I am thinking about alternatives, like intellectual properties, scientific writer or regulatory affairs. Would you mind throwing some light on these or any other additional opportunities in your future videos? (particularly for STEM Ph.D.s)
Thank you for the kind remarks. I'm so glad you found it helpful. And thank you also for the recommendation for a future video. That's a great idea, and fits well with material I already present in my private sector career workshops. I'll put this idea in the queue!
@@TurningScienceVideo I am glad to hear back from you, and thank you for keeping these ideas in the queue. I will wait for the new videos. What about your private sector career worksop? I would like to know more about it.
Thanks for your interest, Maadhuri. Check out my website to learn more: turningscience.com/speaking_engagements/ and you can contact me directly from my website with any additional questions. Happy to discuss further!
@@prince1mad i am a final year PhD student in theoretical physics and planning to enter data science/machine learning. As of now I am learning Machine Learning on my own (through online courses and doing some self-projects), initially, I started it as a job alternative but now I actually enjoy it. I think for STEM people, DS is the best career choice bcz that's what they do in their thesis itself (data analysis). The only difference is that in industry, it's more valuable. Believe it or not but ML is the future. NO other subject can compete with it in terms of money and research. It has entered even in basic sciences: computational chemistry, molecular representations, astrophysics, theoretical physics and what not.
yeah but my training in acadamia was so bad I cant even get an RA positiom in industry. I came from workng in industry into the doctorate and now im unemployable, it really sucks!!!
Really great video, thanks! I have submitted my PhD in biomedical sciences and am waiting for the defence examination. It was not a PhD project I was offered at the beginning and had to suffer a lot to get it done and I think my Masters' project was much more advanced too as a Biotech work. My supervisors are not supportive either as they are busy or retired. So I was wondering if this lack of support causes me a problem to find a job in the industry as I prefer to join the industry and make science applicable. What do you think?
Thanks for the feedback, Mann. I’m glad you found it helpful! While lack of supervisor support is never desirable, it shouldn’t prevent you from building the career you want. Setbacks occur in everyone’s career. The important thing is that you find a way to get what you want anyway. Problems and setbacks happen all the time in industry, so hiring managers want people who can show that they can handle setbacks creatively and with perseverance. Take stock in the results you have achieved, and why they matter. Tell stories about these achievements and what you want to do next with your career to people in industry. Depending on your situation, you might even be able to show that succeeding despite a lack of supervisor support is a demonstration of your perseverance and dedication.
Nice to hear this advice from another physics graduate, thanks. I'm closing in on a phd in plasma physics theory/simulation and I don't know what I want, but I certainly don't want to do a postdoc. Feeling kind of helpless. Do you know common industry avenues for people in that area? Fusion startups seem to be short lived and software development doesn't sound very exciting (nor do I think I can compete with proper CS folk).
I'm glad you found it helpful! You might consider looking in other areas that use simulation, rather than just staying in plasma physics. Don't feel that you need to stay in the same specific technology area as your PhD. This can be very limiting. Your modeling skills, with an ability to understand the science to a degree that most CS people will not, could be very valuable.
@Ostx hey it's been 3 years since you commented this! what did you end up doing? I'm doing my MSc in plasma physics right now and am trying to decide what comes next; I'd love to hear where you ended up.
@@TotsFabulous Well, it's not great news. I defended last year. Spent a year trying to get an industry or government job but got nowhere, so I accepted a temporary part time lecturer gig as a favor from my alma mater (pays less than a grad student stipend, but it's better than nothing). I'm still figuring out what I'm going to do. Don't wanna do a postdoc cause it's a dead-end, but it's all I've got leads for at the moment.
@@Lavabug hey thanks for responding either way. I'm sorry you've been struggling. My own tentative plan is to teach myself machine learning + sql and try to hop laterally into data science. It's not exactly my dream of working in fusion power, but the pay is good, and I've heard physics is a good background for it. Best of luck this year!!
@@TotsFabulous Thanks for the kind words. I'm actually wary of DS now, it seems to be saturated. Many of my cohort and earlier cohorts who got DS jobs after their PhD's were doing fine until this year. Mass layoffs axed their jobs - and they had 5+ years experience in it already. It's REALLY competitive now - 5 stage technical interviews are the norm. It was my backup plan but I just don't feel like I can compete with people who've been doing it for 5+ years and actually like it. If you're in a top school in a major city with industry connections, you might have better luck using their career fairs and partnership programs for an intern position.
If you can extend your time with your PhD advisor, I think that makes sense. But moving to a new location/lab to do a postdoc while you look for a permanent position is likely just a distraction from finding the job you really want.
I am a PhD student in India working on batteries. If I wish to get an industry job in the US or EU, what path should I follow? I was initially thinking of a postdoc there and using the connections built during it, look for an industry job there
Hi Nishad. While generally I do not recommend a postdoc as the best path for pursuing a career in the private sector, the one time that I do think it may be helpful is if you want to move to a new country. Check out this article I co-wrote with more on the topic: blogs.nature.com/naturejobs/2018/03/26/the-autopilot-postdoc/
Glad to hear some good advice here. I got a few questions (appreciate if you could answer!!). So there are many industrial postdoc positions around (like genentech), would you recommend those? I want to develop my career in my own country however bio-tech companies are very few here locally, and most positions requires experience in certain field. Would it be a good idea if I do a postdoc overseas and acquire some experiences before going back to my hometown for career development ? Going to industry here directly sounds a little bit difficult for me. Thanks for the video again ! Ps. I am doing a PhD in Biochemistry, at HK.
Cloudy Mak - Thank you for the great comments and questions. If you want to work in industry, an industry postdoc is better than an academic one, because it gets you out into private sector. But any postdoc is just a delay to achieving your ultimate goal. Why not just go straight for the industry job rather than take a lower paying temporary postdoc? If your main reason is that it’s easier to do the postdoc, you may want to ask yourself if that’s the best criterion for making your decision.
Thanks , I have the same problem. I really want to become stable. Al.ost all.of frinds are at good positions in industry and stable. I am kind of hanging on after phd. Bit confused about what to do after.
Certainly having work experience will be an advantage, but not having work experience before a PhD is more common and will not prevent you from getting a job.
What if I get a postdoc in top universities in the world and in my phd have more than 10 first author peer reviewed publications. But since faculty jobs are very hard to get especially in life Sciences. Kindly advice.
A postdoc at a top university is admirable, but will still be seen my most people in industry as a step down the path of an academic career. It still will not prepare you for the very different world of the private sector.
An industry postdoc is worth considering, as it certainly gets you into a company to start gaining industry experience. I'm always skeptical of these positions, however, because it seems to just be a way to get a PhD for less money than a permanent position.
Thanks sir, i am actually in india for my PhD scholar in physics . After that , i am thinking for an industrial career in UA.please could you give me some advice on how to apply or contact an industry? thanks
Thank god that my PI support me 100% going to industry
That's great to hear you have that support, Samuel.
I know people who wanted a career in the biotech industry that did a postdoc simply because a postdoc allowed them to gain techniques and skills that would allow them to get their preferred job. Most graduate students lack the critical knowledge to pick their the techniques and question they are most interesting to them and highly desirable for potential employees. After a couple of years of doing a postdoc they had no problem finding a job. I know of no faculty member that thinks an industry is a bad outcome. I know for a fact that in evaluating graduate programs both NIH and NSF consider an industry job is a good outcome.
Thanks for your input. There are certainly valuable skills that can be learned during a postdoc, but rarely are those extra skills worth the opportunity cost of additional years spent in academia not learning how industry works.
Thank you sir! You guide us confused souls :D
Happy To help! I wish you well!
Wow! I just saw a random recommendation on TH-cam and decided to play it. I watched wonderful content and I have exactly the same thoughts as you. You are very sorted.
I am about to conclude my Ph.D. in Chemistry and have realized that I am not the academic material. So I am thinking about alternatives, like intellectual properties, scientific writer or regulatory affairs. Would you mind throwing some light on these or any other additional opportunities in your future videos? (particularly for STEM Ph.D.s)
Thank you for the kind remarks. I'm so glad you found it helpful. And thank you also for the recommendation for a future video. That's a great idea, and fits well with material I already present in my private sector career workshops. I'll put this idea in the queue!
@@TurningScienceVideo I am glad to hear back from you, and thank you for keeping these ideas in the queue. I will wait for the new videos. What about your private sector career worksop? I would like to know more about it.
Thanks for your interest, Maadhuri. Check out my website to learn more: turningscience.com/speaking_engagements/
and you can contact me directly from my website with any additional questions. Happy to discuss further!
@@prince1mad i am a final year PhD student in theoretical physics and planning to enter data science/machine learning. As of now I am learning Machine Learning on my own (through online courses and doing some self-projects), initially, I started it as a job alternative but now I actually enjoy it. I think for STEM people, DS is the best career choice bcz that's what they do in their thesis itself (data analysis). The only difference is that in industry, it's more valuable. Believe it or not but ML is the future. NO other subject can compete with it in terms of money and research. It has entered even in basic sciences: computational chemistry, molecular representations, astrophysics, theoretical physics and what not.
yeah but my training in acadamia was so bad I cant even get an RA positiom in industry. I came from workng in industry into the doctorate and now im unemployable, it really sucks!!!
Sorry to hear that your experience was so bad. I hope you find a way to leverage the strengths you brought with you from industry.
Thank you so much for maing this video.
You are welcome. I’m glad you found it helpful.
Really great video, thanks! I have submitted my PhD in biomedical sciences and am waiting for the defence examination. It was not a PhD project I was offered at the beginning and had to suffer a lot to get it done and I think my Masters' project was much more advanced too as a Biotech work. My supervisors are not supportive either as they are busy or retired. So I was wondering if this lack of support causes me a problem to find a job in the industry as I prefer to join the industry and make science applicable. What do you think?
Thanks for the feedback, Mann. I’m glad you found it helpful!
While lack of supervisor support is never desirable, it shouldn’t prevent you from building the career you want. Setbacks occur in everyone’s career. The important thing is that you find a way to get what you want anyway. Problems and setbacks happen all the time in industry, so hiring managers want people who can show that they can handle setbacks creatively and with perseverance.
Take stock in the results you have achieved, and why they matter. Tell stories about these achievements and what you want to do next with your career to people in industry. Depending on your situation, you might even be able to show that succeeding despite a lack of supervisor support is a demonstration of your perseverance and dedication.
Instablaster...
Nice to hear this advice from another physics graduate, thanks. I'm closing in on a phd in plasma physics theory/simulation and I don't know what I want, but I certainly don't want to do a postdoc. Feeling kind of helpless. Do you know common industry avenues for people in that area? Fusion startups seem to be short lived and software development doesn't sound very exciting (nor do I think I can compete with proper CS folk).
I'm glad you found it helpful! You might consider looking in other areas that use simulation, rather than just staying in plasma physics. Don't feel that you need to stay in the same specific technology area as your PhD. This can be very limiting. Your modeling skills, with an ability to understand the science to a degree that most CS people will not, could be very valuable.
@Ostx hey it's been 3 years since you commented this! what did you end up doing? I'm doing my MSc in plasma physics right now and am trying to decide what comes next; I'd love to hear where you ended up.
@@TotsFabulous Well, it's not great news. I defended last year. Spent a year trying to get an industry or government job but got nowhere, so I accepted a temporary part time lecturer gig as a favor from my alma mater (pays less than a grad student stipend, but it's better than nothing). I'm still figuring out what I'm going to do. Don't wanna do a postdoc cause it's a dead-end, but it's all I've got leads for at the moment.
@@Lavabug hey thanks for responding either way. I'm sorry you've been struggling.
My own tentative plan is to teach myself machine learning + sql and try to hop laterally into data science. It's not exactly my dream of working in fusion power, but the pay is good, and I've heard physics is a good background for it.
Best of luck this year!!
@@TotsFabulous Thanks for the kind words. I'm actually wary of DS now, it seems to be saturated. Many of my cohort and earlier cohorts who got DS jobs after their PhD's were doing fine until this year. Mass layoffs axed their jobs - and they had 5+ years experience in it already. It's REALLY competitive now - 5 stage technical interviews are the norm. It was my backup plan but I just don't feel like I can compete with people who've been doing it for 5+ years and actually like it. If you're in a top school in a major city with industry connections, you might have better luck using their career fairs and partnership programs for an intern position.
Would a postdoc be a good option to do in the interim while you search for a jobs and build a network, just so you can pay the bills?
If you can extend your time with your PhD advisor, I think that makes sense. But moving to a new location/lab to do a postdoc while you look for a permanent position is likely just a distraction from finding the job you really want.
I am a PhD student in India working on batteries. If I wish to get an industry job in the US or EU, what path should I follow? I was initially thinking of a postdoc there and using the connections built during it, look for an industry job there
Hi Nishad. While generally I do not recommend a postdoc as the best path for pursuing a career in the private sector, the one time that I do think it may be helpful is if you want to move to a new country. Check out this article I co-wrote with more on the topic: blogs.nature.com/naturejobs/2018/03/26/the-autopilot-postdoc/
@@TurningScienceVideo Thank you very much. I will check it.
Glad to hear some good advice here. I got a few questions (appreciate if you could answer!!). So there are many industrial postdoc positions around (like genentech), would you recommend those?
I want to develop my career in my own country however bio-tech companies are very few here locally, and most positions requires experience in certain field. Would it be a good idea if I do a postdoc overseas and acquire some experiences before going back to my hometown for career development ? Going to industry here directly sounds a little bit difficult for me.
Thanks for the video again !
Ps. I am doing a PhD in Biochemistry, at HK.
Cloudy Mak - Thank you for the great comments and questions. If you want to work in industry, an industry postdoc is better than an academic one, because it gets you out into private sector. But any postdoc is just a delay to achieving your ultimate goal. Why not just go straight for the industry job rather than take a lower paying temporary postdoc? If your main reason is that it’s easier to do the postdoc, you may want to ask yourself if that’s the best criterion for making your decision.
Thanks , I have the same problem. I really want to become stable. Al.ost all.of frinds are at good positions in industry and stable. I am kind of hanging on after phd. Bit confused about what to do after.
Does not having any work experience between undergrad and starting a PhD (in biological sciences) put you at a disadvantage?
Certainly having work experience will be an advantage, but not having work experience before a PhD is more common and will not prevent you from getting a job.
What is industry? Sorry I know nothing about this stuff
What if I get a postdoc in top universities in the world and in my phd have more than 10 first author peer reviewed publications. But since faculty jobs are very hard to get especially in life Sciences. Kindly advice.
A postdoc at a top university is admirable, but will still be seen my most people in industry as a step down the path of an academic career. It still will not prepare you for the very different world of the private sector.
what about industrial postdocs?
An industry postdoc is worth considering, as it certainly gets you into a company to start gaining industry experience. I'm always skeptical of these positions, however, because it seems to just be a way to get a PhD for less money than a permanent position.
Thanks sir, i am actually in india for my PhD scholar in physics . After that , i am thinking for an industrial career in UA.please could you give me some advice on how to apply or contact an industry? thanks
Hello Azem. Contact me through my website, and I'd be happy to set up a time to talk.