Which Attenuator: Harley Benton or Fryette?!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ส.ค. 2024
- Since I wanted to see if I could upgrade attenuators, I wanted to try two different ones. Harley Benton released the new PA-250 at the end of last year, the Fryette Power Station has been out and revered for a while now. I was curious about both, and since the Rivera RockCrusher and Tone King Iron Man II are unavailable in Europe for quite some time, I went with these two options.
For this video I've used no pedals, just the guitar straight into the Marshall SV20H. The unattenuated parts were recorded with the head straight into my Zilla 2x12". I only used the SM57 pointed at the Greenback G12M at the top of the cab, since the unattenuated sound was to loud to record with the ribbon microphone.
Also check part 2 of my attenuator shootout: • Which Attenuator: Tone...
All opinions are my own, I'm not affiliated with any of the parties involded with this gear. Everything was paid for by myself, within return windows and policies of the store. If you want to check out the gear I'm using in the video, check these links:
Harley Benton PA-250
www.thomann.de...
Harley Benton PA-100
www.thomann.de...
Fryette Power Station PS-2
www.thomann.de...
Bugera PS1
www.thomann.de...
Marshall SV20H
www.thomann.de...
Zilla Cabinets
www.zillacabs....
![[TH]FFWS SEA 2024 Fall - Knockout Stage Day 5](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/N2tl9xkQyyU/mqdefault.jpg)
Check the follow-up video I made to get the full comparison:
th-cam.com/video/_Osds3DFVKQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=yOlZ1UCFjutijHfLth-cam.com/video/_Osds3DFVKQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=yOlZ1UCFjutijHfL
I built a reactive attenuator for less than $50 and it works perfectly!
Great if you have those skills! I don't, so I've put my trust into the hands of Tone King with the Ironman II, which I showcased in the follow-up video. I've been very happy with it for the past two years or so 😊
Good vid and it never makes any sense for someone to get pissed at someone else’s opinion
Thanks man! :)
The Marshall without attenuation was beautiful!!
Thanks! Please let me know how you think it sounds with the Tone King Ironman II in my follow-up video.
Yes. But they are so loud. It's my biggest critic to those amps.
The loudest amp ever used was the Marshall major, you could break windows just by the sheer force of the sound.
What speakers you have in your cabinet? Thx
@@RotoSphere Celestion Greenbacks.
I checked with Fryette and they said: "The “Flat” settings make it a purely resistive load. The other settings change the impedance characteristics of the load, not the frequency response directly, though that usually amounts to the same thing."
Then I said: "So the attenuator is going to perform like most other resistive attenuators unless I use the switches?"
They responded: "No, it is still a different method of working than a traditional resistive attenuator. The Power Station is a re-amp, so even with pure resistive settings you gain the continuous control over volume and have a completely consistent load - traditional attenuators actually vary their load characteristics with each “notch”. It is a fundamentally different product than, say, the Hot Plate and its ilk."
Thanks! I initially got this information from Pete Thorn's video and then checked with Fryette before posting this video. They told me something different than you it seems.
you are correct sorry for the confusion... the first response I got was worded weirdly
@@StevenAnthonyGuitar I got more information and posted in the original post: "It is still a different method of working than a traditional resistive attenuator. The Power Station is a re-amp, so even with pure resistive settings you gain the continuous control over volume and have a completely consistent load - traditional attenuators actually vary their load characteristics with each “notch”. It is a fundamentally different product than, say, the Hot Plate and its ilk."
@@truthoriented I have to say I didn't notice that much difference in the flat setting to those cheaper attenuators, be it in sound or feel. Not badmouthing the Fryette, it's a great unit and will have its uses for sure. But for attenuating a my plexi amps, I think the Tone King Ironman II just did a better job.
Thanks for the comparison. I really prefer your tone without any of the attenuators and do not like the Fryette at all in your examples. It sounds positively anaemic compared to the straight amp. Was the riff from Led Zeppelin or Mother's Finest?
Check the follow-up with the Tone King Ironman II, I'm curious how that attenuator sounds to you compared to the amp sound. And the riff was probably Custard Pie by Led Zeppelin, if my memory serves me right.
EXCELLENT! Thanks a lot. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks! Glad I could help. Make sure to also check the follow-up I did on this video though to get the full story :)
I see you went with the iron man from your comments here, im having a Silver Jubilee on order ( gon be my first tube amp) and it might work without attenuator but yeah.thats gonna be known when it arrives. For only attenuation u would reccomend me the iron man ? i dont need IRs or any other tricks the freytte or the OX has , only attenuation, or maybe to look for something different all together?
Appreciate it !!
For just attenuation, the Ironman all the way!
@@StevenAnthonyGuitar Thank you for the reccomandation man !
Just for home playing, the Harley Benton is fine.Thank you
For home playing I would even get the cheapest Harley Benton. Once you start recording or rehearsing/performing with a band I'd go with a Tone King Ironman II though.
@@StevenAnthonyGuitar I have to ask as I can't try for myself what would you say would produce better results for home playing. The cheapest Harley Benton attenuator and cranking the amp or a transparent overdrive (klon, bluesbreaker types) and just running the amp really low, getting the gain from the pedal. I am asking about both feel and sound. Also I have to mention I really like the overdrive that my amplifier (tweed deluxe) naturally produces and my aim is to color the sound as little as possible.
@@martinmcfly2770 for home playing I prefer the cheapest Harley Benton attenuator over an overdrive. I did both with a Studio Vintage. For a while I used a cheap Timmy clone (Caline Pure Sky) in the effects loop to get a good drive sound at really low volume. Out of all of the pedals I tried (incl. a Tubescreamer, Boss EQ and many others) this worked the best and did a really good job...
... but I still have and use the cheap Harley Benton when I have to play quiet. At those levels you the coloration of the attenuator gets mostly undone by the Fletcher-Munson effect, but it still feels and sounds more like the amp than a pedal. For gigging and recording I wouldn't use it, for that I've got the Tone King Ironman II.
@@StevenAnthonyGuitar Thank you I really appreciate the detailed answer and how fast you replied! In that case I am going for the attenuator. As for gigging it is around 12 watts so I think I will be able to crank it, depends on the drummer I guess but it should be possible. And recording isn't in the cards for now so I will be fine.
I like that you did this comparison. However, I’m confused by the Power Station in this because in the other demos I’ve watched of it there was just about zero discernible difference between the Fryette bypassed, and the Fryette engaged and set to unity gain. And if I was able to hear any difference, it was so minuscule that it didn’t even matter. This doesn’t seem to be the case in your demo. Just an observation.
Depends on how you use the switches. I didn't use the flat settings, since that makes it a resistive rather than reactive load, which defeats the purpose for me. This is how it sounds in the other settings. No trickery besides that.
Agreed, I have the Fryette and it is excellent. Steven hasn't set it up right or something lol.
0:54 pure amp 1:09 freyette 1:24 harley benton PA-250 1:40 harley benton PA-100 1:56 Bugera
Thanks! 🙂
Ok. I am sitting here with DT 770 headphones and after listening to the comparison in the first 2 minutes, the cheaper PA-100 is the one, which changes the least of your original tone. It keeps the muddiness and that rough, vintage tone. The Fryette sounds good but the signal sounds compressed, cleaner, less vintage and to me it sounds like a totally different amp. The PA-250 sounds closer to the original signal but a bit more airy, a bit cleaner and less rough. At least, that's how it sounds to me. We all hear differently. I did study music and work as a professional drummer. I just stumbled across those amazing attenuators. For sure i have to buy one for my guitar amp in my flat :)
You're right on the money there. Also check the follow up with the Tone King then 🙂👍
I prefer the Fryette Power Station and it's much more safe and reliable if you are using valuable irreplaceable vintage amps. I wouldnt trust the Harley Benton with my vintage amps.
Totally get your point. That's why I'm using a Tone King Ironman II, if you haven't seen the follow-up video ;)
great video... How about the amp's headroom, is it affeced by the attenuator? I had the dr Z attenuator and didn't work for me... I use pedals (OD-DS1-boost) and when using the boost, you couldn´t hear a difference, even if you turn the vol all the way up in the booster. So, do they work using that pedals?
With the Harley Benton the amp seemed to clean up a bit, allowing for some extra room in that regard. The Fryette had so many options that I can't really remember. I went with the Tone King Ironman II and that didn't change a thing, which I prefered.
The power station is supposed to be the best on the market and extremely transparent.
Did you start with the depth and presence at 12 o clock ?
Also the 2 switches are for the reactive load, it changes the sound too.
I think I mentioned this in the video, but I've been all through the settings. With the switches off it's a resistive rather than reactive load, so at that point it doesn't really feel or sound any better than a cheap attenuator. With the switches on the feel and response are better, but the tone is altered. Wether that's for better or worse is subjective, though I didn't like it for my rig. My money went to the Tone King Ironman II as being the best attenuator in the market, literally.
Great video! Do you have the plexi 1987x? … how you feel the fx loop? I just get one and kind of sound as if the fxs where at the front of the amp. Thanks for your comments and rock on 🤘🏼
I have to admit that I never use an effects loop, also not on the 1987x. Personally I prefer my pedals in the front, so I can't comment on that. But I do love the 1987x and I think it takes pedals very well!
Thomann says the Harley Benton PA-250 is no longer available. No mention of back ordered either. I wonder if they had reliability issues? Some negative reviews on their site with an average rating of 4.2, which is really low for a Harley Benton product in general?
The user reviews were pretty positive as far as I remember, only some negative comments about a non-included power adapter. Mine turned out to have issues though, I talked about that in the follow-up video. So there might've been some trouble with reliability in their most recent batch. When they take it offline, users that've received a faulty one cannot complain about it in the reviews until a new/fixed shipment arrives. That's my guess at least.
Just would use it on my DSL100 as a load box, line out to effects, then separate power amp so HB it is 👍
For that configuration I'd probably do the same. Thanks for watching!
@@StevenAnthonyGuitar 🤘
Harley Benton confirmed "PA-250 Power attenuator" as a RESISTIVE unit, not Reactive
Yeah not surprised. The info was very vague when they came out around the time I get them. Also still had some bugs and issues, and so did mine. Better than their cheaper options, but there's still a lot of better quality if you're willing to pay more.
Thanks for this video. The same riff comparison of all the attenuators was useful.
Was looking into the PA-250 since yesterday and it seems like a solid buy, except for the balanced and unbalanced out that seem to be a bit too hot gain wise, but I will use it just for the attenuation. Would've been nice though.
I still hear a bit of a change in sound with the PA-250, less harmonics or "rich" sounding, but good enough for home practice!
Thanks! The Harley Benton PA-250 cleaned up the sound a bit more somehow as well. I will follow up more on that in a new video tomorrow!
The PA-100 sounds the most realistic/neutral
Although I still own it, I would disagree. It muffles up the sound and you can hear that in the comparisons, at least with good monitoring. But it's fine as a cheap alternative or backup.
@@StevenAnthonyGuitar that's maybe because the PA-250 and Fryette brighten the Signal up. I listen on Neumann KH420 in a measured in room.
@@fritzhieke7209 all of them color the tone in some way. Of course I'm also bringing the feel into the mix, as you experience more difference by actually playing them. The best one I tried is covered in the follow-up video, and that's the Tone King Ironman II.
I've just started seriously thinking about getting an attenuator for my old Laney AOR 50w head because now that I have a Kemper and have started playing gigs, I really want to get the most out of the Laney's tone for profiling and taking it out on stage, I've just never been able to get that cranked tone out of it and I need something that will knock off quite a bit of volume without colouring too much.
Dude, I actually completely agree with you on all fronts here, I didn't like the way the Fryette sounded like it was trying to compensate for the altered highs and lows by scooping out the mids, Imo mids give most noticeable in character in a valve amp so that's a big no for me. The Harley Benton is actually VERY similar to the un-attenuated tone like you said, mids still in-tact, and it would be easier for me to bring the low-end back with an EQ without colouring the tone, just enough to fatten up the sound. Great "straight to the point" video man, you have my like and sub, I'll check out your Tone King video next 👍
Thanks, I'm glad you liked the approach here!
Useful, thx!
Thanks! A follow-up will be online in about half an hour :)
Rivera Rock Crusher is resistive. They claim it does something with a "network" of resistors, but that just means there are multiple partial resistors, and by turning up the attenuation, all you do is add more resistors into the signal path. This is a pure resistive design, and it sounds like sh!t. I know, because I fell for their marketing jargon and I bought one. Absolute trash, no better than Harley Benton or Bugera, just a way more impractical case.
Resistive loads use a simple resistor to turn power from the amp into hot air, and it sounds like butt because the resistance is always constant, which is not how a speaker works. Speakers have constantly changing impedance.
The Fryette is reactive, which means it has an active load inside, something with a bit of inertia or sluggishness, like a fan or something along those lines. The power coming from the amp will be "wasted" on turning the fan, which simulates the impedance fluctuations of a moving speaker, so a reactive loadbox will always sound better than a resistive one.
You're right, but the Fryette still alters the sound too much for my taste. There's a part two for this video where I cover the Tone King Ironman II, which is also reactive but with my amps changed the tone less. That's what I went with.
The Fryette sounds a tiny bit unnatural to me. Seems to be doing its own thing in a way. The Harley Benton also alters the sound, but in a better way - I can still recognize the basic characteristics of the amp.
Totally agree!
Thanks alot for this video so i need a reactive attenuador , around €220 is the cheapest here at Thomann , good to know so i can get aN ENGL Fireball 100 at home \m/
Well, like I said in the video: Thomann never responded to the question if their Harley Benton PA-250 is reactive or resistive. I think they're having some issues with their latest run, because the one I used in this video started to show overloading and they've removed it from their website.
@@StevenAnthonyGuitar As far as i know that wasnt the only issue . I saw a Test of the youtuber Eytschpi42 . The Line out didnt work as stand alone . It only worked in combo with the attenuator . Thats the main reason they took it off . I dont know if the Harley Benton P 100 got the same issue , but the P100 is a restrictive attenuator which changes the sound too much especially the low end punch gets muddy . Nothing for me cause i love death metal hahaha . So the 240 Watts Harley Benton isnt available , it is reactive as far as my research shows . I gonna end up with the Two Notes Torpedo for around €220 . Greetings from Germany \m/
@@antonwilding9744 the stuff from Two Notes is great! I've tried the Captor X and I own the CAB-M.
@@StevenAnthonyGuitar yeah i saw only great reviews about that gear so far , thats a good sign !
@@antonwilding9744 thanks for letting me know Henning did a video on the PA-250 by the way. I got to check that out.
The Fryette is so much more than an attenuator and I believe you haven't scratched the surface of it. Learn first how to use it, before giving such definitive conclusions. I own a Fryette PS100 and it has been a life changer, so much so I'm considering a second one for stereo applications.
This was an attenuator comparison, so there was no need to explore the other functions in this video, since that wasn't the point of this video. That's why I stated that the Fryette might be more usefull to other people who might be looking for something more than just an attenuator. But this video and the follow-up weren't about that, this was for people just looking for a good attenuator, so that was the focus of this video.
@@StevenAnthonyGuitar honestly the Fryette isn't even an attenuator but a load box that runs into a power amp. So it's not to be compared to other attenuator but other load boxes. I even think you stated something similar in the video so... Doesn't make sense why it's here. The two notes captor in the attenuation mode or rock crusher would've been a better comparison IMO as it's apples to apples then.
@@AtTheSourceStudios when I opened a thread on the Gear Page about which attenuator I should get for my purposes, the most recommended one was this Fryette. It is promoted as an attenuator. I've tried the Captor X, but it is very limited in its attenuation capabilities and I think that's more of a load box IR... with minor attenuation capabilities. Check out the recent video Johan Segeborn did on the Fryette: a attenuator for sure, and he seems to get better results than me. I still prefer the Tone King Ironman II.
There is no comparison. Fryette smokes it.
They shouldn't even be compared!!!
Personally I don't like the way it alters the sound. I went with the Tone King Ironman II (check the follow-up video), which I like better because it sounds the most transparant through my rig. But the Fryette is well made for sure!
fryette all the way
Check the follow-up. I'd say Tone King Ironman II 😉
benton is flat and without chime, Fryette retains natural harmonics, and chime better.
The Benton is flat, but the Fryette changes the sound. I went Ironman!
The cheap & simple one sounded better - quite the disappointment for the fryette engineers.
To be fair: the cheap and simple one also stopped working after one day. Check the follow-up ;)
@@StevenAnthonyGuitar Ok, interesting - I'll watch more of your videos. Have you ever tried the SPL Reducer? On some forums some folks swear by it and claim it's one of the few more neutral devices... which I doubt because it just seems to be a bunch of resistors. It seems the only device of choice is the ironman... at least tone wise.
@@brucetungsten5714 I've read some of the same things about the SPL, better never tried it. My search ended with the Ironman II.
Fryette hands down. Anybody who says Harley Benton doesn't know what they're talking about and tone deaf!!!
I'd say Tone King Ironman II ;)
Talk to us when you have to service the tubes on the Fryette. And don't drop it as it is quite fragile. There are in between choices. The newest gold front Rivera Rockcrusher is getting great reviews too.
@@christebo7305 there's certainly more than one way to skin a cat. It all depends on your needs and your budget!
@@christebo7305 what's so hard about changing tubes in it?
I've done it lots. Also u dont have to bias them as there's no bias pot in it and u dont need one anyways.
U cant change tubes in your own guitar amp either?...wow!!!
Tune your guitar
The attenuator doesn't do that.