As a woman, I agree there are way too many women in positions that men should be in within the church. The men have become weak or were never strong to begin with in their Christian authority. It's disheartening.
Yes and no. As a man in his mid thirties I’ve volunteered to step up and lead many of things including a few different start up ministries in my last church that was open to lady preachers only to be shut down several times. But when the women started ministries it was always received with open arms. Men of the past might have been weak. But men of today are often not the same but they are just often told to sit down you had your turn.
”This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;“ 1 Timothy 3:1-2 KJV Women are not supposed to hold any position in the church
@@michaelclark2458 Get out of churches that allow women to preach. That is the issue. Let's pour our time, effort and money into churches and organizations that have a proper understanding of the roles of men and women.
@@hisservants8003 I did. I served faithfully there for 10 years. When I first went they did not allow lady preachers. That came later. I was the main objector to it being introduced. A cursory read through Revelation 2-3 teaches clearly that some are called to faithfully remain and obey in a church who is becoming apostate. But there also comes a time when you must leave. Shortly after the birth of my son I started looking. I didn’t want him exposed to it. If it was just me and my wife I may have stayed longer to rebuke the false doctrine of lady preachers. I loved them enough to stay and be a true witness longer than I would have if I hadn’t previously built connections and fellowship.
I didn't hear anything in this episode about Billy Graham or Andy Stanley. Would love to hear more specifically about their association with Charles Finney. Thank you.
lol my TH-cam is on auto-play. This intro came on and it caught my attention. I said “I need to subscribe to this guy!” And picked up my phone and lo and behold it is RRM. Fantastic work guys haha I’ve been subscribed and watching for about a year now, and you’re still keeping it fresh and interesting. Praise God for the work He is doing through this ministry.
Great discussion men. I spent most my life in an SBC church, mostly in small town Kentucky and a few years at an ABA church, so I understand everything you men spoke of. You men give me hope for the future of Christianity.
Woman, here 🙋♀️. I so totally understand staffing the church with all men. And I, myself, recently (on good terms) stepped down from a paid leadership position as Children’s Church Director. I go to a nondenominational charismatic church that has ties to the Assembly of God denomination. Our pastor is a woman who knows the Word & is a great person. Our lead prayer minister is a wonderful woman. I respect both of these God loving women, but it just doesn’t sit right in my gut that they are in these pivotal roles. Leading the men of the congregation in Word & prayer. It’s off putting.
Praise God for Godly women wanting to please God rather than other women and or ignorant men! Now as far as you stepping down from this position, I am not o sure that anything was that wrong with it as you were working with children and directing all that. As a Godly man I don't see you as head of the church in this position or preaching in the pulpit every Sunday morning and trying to teach men every Wednesday night??? Not too sure about this decision BUT I can tell you that the women "headship" you are under is DEFINITELY NOT BIBLICAL! I pray that The Holy Spirit continues to lead you in every way and HE continues to fill the voids you may have. Bless you Sister! ;-) In JESUS' NAME!
I was very interested in hearing the commentary about Charles Finney, Billy Graham, and Andy Stanley. Alas, not a word about them during the entire conversation. Clickbait.
Well, the conversation was more of an explanation of how these particular individuals, along with a plethora of others, have operated their Lord’s Day worship service in a way that has completely missed the mark in terms of how God has instructed His people to worship on Sundays and to draw near to Him. These particular names are huge names that have contributed to the disfunction of the modern evangelical Lord’s day worship service, so the discussion was actually explaining why/ how that is.
@@caitlynyoung1402, the discussion indeed had value, but it was not as advertised: “SEEKER SENSITIVE HERETICS: CHARLES FINNEY, BILLY GRAHAM, & ANDY STANLEY”. I like this channel, but they should do better.
Agreed, there is plenty of evidence available to justify the title of this video. Too bad it wasn’t organized and presented as advertised. Lots of people need to know the truth.
An evangelical family member, upon hearing that we were catechizing our young children, said, “Isn’t that a Catholic thing?” We had to inform that individual that the Catholic Church started catechizing their people because the Protestants did it first. The lack of church history knowledge is sad. The ignorance surrounding the use of confessions is another common issue.
wait, what? Catechizing was a Protestant thing first???? Please can you give me a good source on this??? I am in seminary but haven't taken my church history classes yet and would love to understand this!
PRAISE OUR LORD JESUS!!! Grace and peace Pastor Joel! Thank you so much for this episode it was such a blessing from our Great Lord Christ!! I found it really helpful when you were all talking about how the seeker-sensitive church is very individualistic and consumerist, and that its liturgy is man-focused instead of God-focused. It really explained something I could not put my finger on, but knew was wrong in seeker-sensitive churches. It has given me content that I can share with my seeker-sensitive church going friends, a great gift from God! I am wondering if you may please elaborate further on why Charles Finney, Billy Graham, & Andy Stanley are seeker-sensitive heretics. Especially Billy Graham, as he is held very highly by many evangelicals when he should not be. Soli Deo gloria!! Prayers to you and your family and church my dear elder brother in the Lord!
Nobody in America owns property, they just rent it from the government. Try doing something with 'your' property that goes against the zoning laws, or decide to not pay the property tax because you don't like most of it going to the local child indoctrination centers, and you will find out fast who REALLY owns your house and land!
I agree that the current government is evil, but I have mixed views on how property tax ought to be handled with good government. It's true that with property tax, there is no true ownership. On the other hand, it's actually the government that secures your property rights through force. If a group of robbers came to your house, you could call the police to fight them for you, and that's the government. Without government, you'd have to fight off roving bandits and foreign armies by yourself, which is practically probably not possible for individual people to do. So practically speaking, the only one who actually owns the land is the one who secures his access to it by force. That usually means government. So, in a certain practical sense, government is the only entity that ever really owns land, and the citizens just rent it. The government is actually providing a service for you in recognizing and securing your land, so it kind of makes sense that citizens ought to pay a tax for that service. The only other way I could imagine that it could be would be if every landowner personally served in the local militia that secured property rights, and then there would be no need to pay land tax. Otherwise, if there were no land tax, the landowners are receiving a service from the government that they aren't paying for.
I know It's not something to laugh about but I couldn't contain myself hearing Joel say in such a calm voice "purple haired female lesbian pastor". He said it in such a normal tone as if it's nothing out of the ordinary for the current times we are in.
The section on obligation, duty, and tradition is slightly ironic coming from reformers who hold certain sets of beliefs that would perplex the Patristic Fathers and the pre-Schism church. That said, I agree with the sentiments deeply. I’m learning a lot from you fellows as an Orthodox Church. May God bless you and your families.
36:01. The discussion about truth, reality and AI is one of the greatest concerns for today's Christians. We have a terrible formula thrown upon us today: AI technologies + man's sinful nature = the destruction of truth. It's becoming increasingly difficult (if not impossible) to know what's real and what is not. I see this all the time, on FB, Pinterest, YT, etc., where I suspect only a small minority of the photos/videos I see are real and/or truthful. This is a HUGE concern for Christians. Jesus IS truth, yet we are inundated with falsehoods every day. Our churches and our weekly services must be the exact opposite of what our culture is becoming. Church should be REAL when our world is not.
The Billy Graham Center at Wheaton College is an incredible world Class Archive of Hostorocal evidence of over 100 years of testimony of missionary 👪 including :NATE Saint, and Jim Elliot who were martyred for the Kingdom of Christ. Elisabeth Elliot has been a powerful writer whose prose has effectively inspired and discipled thousands of Christian men and women. "FOR CHRIST AND HIS KINGDOM."
@@danjohnson887 It appears to be a common typo in that both the i and o on the keyboard are next to each other. Instead of mocking someone, why not politely bring it to the commenter's attention so they can edit it?
Definitely click bait. You had the opportunity with that title to expose dangerous doctrines taught by those three wolves and you opted instead to discuss liturgy and the role of women in the church, and never mention them.
Ever since I heard talk of Finny being heretical I have searched out many hours of his matarial and am yet to find a single thing. To credit finny with errors done by others a century later is a most dishonest misrepresentation. To do so is to bear false witness.
Finney has a most confusing soteriology. Billy Graham has a more consistent message. I'm neither pure Arminian, Calvinists, Dispensational. I do grieve over the state of Evangelical Christendom in general. Led to Faith in Christ by Lutheran Camp counselor almost 50 years ago this summer 1974 . God opened my heart and mind to the Bible through Billy Graham, Hal Lindsey. Jack Van Impe. Had dark experiences in both Charismatic, Calvinistic, and IFB circles. Too much emphasis on 'Altar Calls' as guilt trip
Correct me if i'm wrong but I sense a Calvinistic bent in OP . Don't get me wrong, I'm not one to 'throw anyone under the bus' as far as their individual salvation, but I'm disturbed by certain Calvinists who judge me as 'unsaved' because I don't adhere to 5pts.
Hello! I was listening here on YT and switched over to Spotify and I believe last week’s Friday episode was re-uploaded in place of this episode on Spotify.
Should be fixed but you'll have to download the new episode. Had to delete the old one. Here is a direct link: podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/theology-applied/episodes/THE-FRIDAY-SPECIAL---Seeker-Sensitive-Heretics--Charles-Finney--Billy-Graham---Andy-Stanley-e2ft2fe/a-aavl9fi
@@ChristianTrinity411 Actually it does. If Hollywood loves a preacher of the gospel, then something is terribly wrong with his preaching and witness. The world will hate those who are truly standinf for Christ & the gospel. One who is truly light in the world will be despised by the darkness. Now go read your Bible.
"Emotional Manipulation". I was converted with "emotional manipulation" and continue to feel deep, real, unquestionable emotion every time I sing, pray, read the Bible, and listen to sermons. Do I rely only rely on emotions? Of course not. Emotions change. But when I'm not 'feeling' it that doesn't mean I say "Oh, I guess I'm not feeling it anymore. Time to move on from Christianity". Seems like the reformed tradition really hates emotions. You all also seem to think that those who feel emotion are devoid of truth, doctrine, true biblical understanding, and are self-centered. The emotions I feel stir me toward evangelism, they lead me to want to share the Gospel, they ignite my passion for God. Side Note: Do people from the reformed/cessationist camp ever stop to actually consider that their character and personality comes across as extremely prideful? Not just talking about this channel. Pay attention to all the different channels and you'll see what I'm talking about. I'm convinced reformed circles attract a certain type of personality. You'll understand when people engage with the comment section :)
wow like you 1 to 1. I am so glad that you wrote that. Like you just gave voice to my thought which i could not put into words. I agree with you completely :D
Feeling emotions toward Christ and His gospel is simply not the same thing as the emotional manipulation being discussed here. Manipulation means or at least implies that you wouldn't be correctly having those reactions without the manipulative aspects.
I don't think they're trying to assert that having an emotional response in worship or prayer or reading God's Word is wrong or fake at all, or that it's even mutually exclusive with what's true. They don't seem to be saying that an emotional response is always manipulated. But they're pointing out that particularly in modern worship, there is a formulated push to manipulate an emotional response that isn't genuine or tied to a true knowledge of Who God is and the message of the Gospel. Emotion is a natural part of your relationship with God, and the congregation's relationship with God and each other. With that said, it should come about to emphasize, and as a result of, our knowledge of God and what He has done for us. Not from the hype of the crowd, a combination of musical chords, lights and smoke, and the rest.
it’s weird that people say that reformed folks are prideful but reformed preaching is the most God centered and holds God’s sovereignty to the highest degree
I'll just ask this here. I was just watching today's sermon about Ezra and while listening, it was made private and I couldn't continue. I also noticed an earlier Ezra sermon is now private. I'm wondering what happened here. And the website is a month behind 😢
Hey @Burnak7383 - I’m replacing this weeks with a higher quality as the stream today was real bad quality. I temporarily made the stream file public for you to try and finish it up but I’ll be replacing it as soon as an export is done. Last weeks is up - the file from Sunday had worship on it and needed to be replaced as well. I’ll double check that it’s on the playlist. Also, thanks for letting me know about the website - I’ll take a look! - Nathan
Every Billy Graham sermon I've heard was pretty hells fire and biblically sound. He's on record of saying he would've been happy if even 5% of people who attended his crusades were truly saved. That doesn't sound very seeker-confident to me.
There is absolutely no extended conversation about Billy Graham amd the international Seminary Movement his leadership has birthed in tge last 80 years at: Fuller Theological Seminary (Pasadena, CA ) and Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary (Boston, Massachusetts. Very misleading.
45min into this and turning it off. I've waited as long as I can and still have not heard Charles Finney, Bill Graham, or Andy Stanley's name even mentioned. So am thinking it was a clickbait headline built on a lie to get someone to open the video. Now it's just gone over the edge. Should've known it would when I saw AD Robles on as a guest. The only other thing I'll say, FWIW, is that it's just the kind of talk from AD and Joel agreeing with him that churches should even hire any females, even as a Secretary, that gives the Egalitarians fodder for their canons.
I learned a lot about the historical protestant church practice from this video. If protestants still acted the way they described, I would probably go to church. It came straight from the mouth of Paul that women aren't supposed to have authority over men. If you don't believe that, then you're not Christian.
He's definitely arrogant and close minded. He talks down on everyone that disagrees with him. He demonstrated this very clearly in his video with redeemed zoomer on evolution
What I'm hearing is that many of you are disappointed that the Three were not discussed. Regardless of where they began Finney and Stanley became heretics.The beloved and lauded Billy Graham became openly a kind of universalist in his later years. He expressed this in TV and published interviews. Don't believe me? Do your own research.The scripture is the final judge of whether or not our icons finish well, not our emotions.
Listen at 1:39 min mark...."With the COMING OF THE SPIRIT at PENTECOST, His people BECOME THE LIVING STONES of a new Temple. Huh? This is heresy. The early church did not become 'living stones" or become saved at Pentecost. They were already saved! They were believers being clothed with power as the Lord promised
I agree with you guys on some things, disagree on others, and am grateful for things you make me think about. Do you honestly believe people who don’t agree with you on things like this are heretics? Because that’s beyond disagreement on a Biblical issue, even on one with real consequences. That’s claiming they don’t belong to Jesus. If that’s honestly what you believe, that you’re being definitional and not just insulting, that’s fine. For the record, I’m with you that we’ve gotten away from God-centered worship. But you seem to wield the term “heretic” like the left does the term “Nazi.” It’s really off-putting.
It’s kind of funny hearing a “reformed” baptist calling other Christians heretics. I don’t think y’all should get too comfortable throwing around the H word.
@@benq.3653 them using a term “heretic” so freely is a good warning sign for me anyway. Every denomination (sect) of Christianity guilty of this but so called “reformed” are high up there among some of the most arrogant ones. I can’t speak about the other two guys in the video but I know enough about Billy that I would be very uneasy (to put it mildly) calling him “heretic”.
@@benq.3653 well unless I’m wrong about this but I’m pretty sure when it comes to the sacraments they would be heretical by most Christian orthodoxy. I mean would they let anybody who was baptized as an infant take communion? Or would they require another baptism?
Calling Finney “Seeker-sensitive” if a great way to announce your ignorance or dishonesty. “Finney preached and sometimes the whole congregation would get up and leave. That’s good preaching!” - Leonard Ravenhill ”Finney never made an altar call within the first twenty eight nights of preaching. Most of our evangelists don’t have twenty eight sermons. Twenty eight nights in a row and he never made an altar call. He didn’t preach the love of God. He didn’t say ‘you’re a sinner, God loves you.’ He said ‘God is angry with the wicked every day’ which the Word of God says. He didn’t preach grace, he preached Law. He didn’t preach love, he preached judgment. He didn’t preach heaven, he preached hell. He didn’t say ‘you’re a wonderful person’ he said ‘you’re a rebel’. But he got results.” - Leonard Ravenhill
Very good talk. The only disturbing aspect is the unBiblical infatuation with one of the leading idols of our time in alcohol/wine. If you can practice sound hermeneutics and repent of that sin you guys will be awesome.
Yes, he was. He preached “say the sinner’s prayer”, not the Gospel. Likewise, he and his son both yoked with the most notoriously false teachers who existed/exist.
@@timcummiskey1178 who would excommunicate him? Billy didn't go / attend church, nor did he have a plurality of elders who could hold him accountable or am I wrong?
Even the words " you're going to be disappointed" in heaven when you can't romanticize Jesus by yourself is just so wrong. Do you know the completeness God brings. His restoration and love will not leave someone disappointed in something they thought and were wrong about. You are going to be exactly where and who you were always seen to be. If anything you will be laughing at how silly or wrong some of our ideas on things are lol. Praise Jesus he is the good Shepherd with a good plan
The way you are talking about Christs body is so 😢upsetting. “This part of the body kicked the butt of this part of the body.” Go back to the drawing board guys. Stop judging other peoples worship, there is no worship in this video. So sad. Perhaps the time making this video to sell product to the Church would be better spent on your knees praying for The Church? How can we correct others for selling a Sunday product while at the same time selling a product. I am grieving this video. Love you my brothers but you have a blind spot equal to the blind spots you are pointing out in others.
While Billy Graham did indeed say some things and do some things that brought reproach on the Gospel, he still did a lot for the faith when it came to Evangelism.
Also you weren't converted with emotional manipulation you were converted by the power of God called the new birth because Before Time began God elected you to be saved so you were one of the ones the father gave to the son in eternity past that is proper theology on salvation and knowing that correctly should make you very emotional with thankfulness and humility not Pride the doctrines of Grace ought to Humble you incredibly and make you very thankful that God had mercy upon you and make you in awe of his majesty and character and purpose and ability. The true gospel is god-centered for God's glory not man-centered for man's benefit and Glory
You said the conservative church was only closed for 4 weeks but the right church was never closed you guys need to draw closer to God and you need to read the scripture in Acts that says the baptism of the holy spirit is for all those afar off all those that God will call and God has been calling all men to repentance seek God seek God's perfect will seek to be his disciple seek to be his apostle you're a pastor our pastor still in operation then Apostles are still in operation seek God and be very careful when you talk about men who went to the woods and got on their knees and saw God for the Salvation of souls like Charles Finney least God show you in a bad way to shut your mouth
@@benq.3653 Scots Confession, Chapter 21: "...And so we utterly condemn the vanity of those who affirm the sacraments to be nothing else than naked and bare signs. No, we assuredly believe that by Baptism we are engrafted into Christ Jesus, to be made partakers of his righteousness, *by which our sins are covered and remitted..."* Nicene Creed: "We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins;" Westminster 1646, Chapter 28: Baptism is a sacrament of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ, not only for the solemn admission of the party baptized into the visible Church but also to be unto him a sign and seal of the covenant of grace, of his ingrafting into Christ, *of regeneration,* of remission of sins," It would be incorrect to deny baptismal regeneration as a Presbyterian according to both of these confessions.
@@jamesers99 my comment appears to have been deleted but yes, Presbyterians believe in baptismal regeneration. I had sections from the Scots confession and the Creeds but they got deleted. I hope this will suffice: "Baptism is a sacrament of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ, not only for the solemn admission of the party baptized into the visible Church; but also to be unto him a sign and seal of the covenant of grace, of his ingrafting into Christ, of *regeneration,* of remission of sins..." (WCF, 28- Of Baptism) Baptism saves us. Baptism regenerates us. That's the orthodox reformed view.
@@jamesers99 "Baptism is not only a sign of profession, and mark of difference, whereby Christian men are discerned from others that be not christened, but it is also a sign of *Regeneration or New-Birth,* whereby, as by an instrument, they that receive Baptism rightly are grafted into the Church; the promises of the forgiveness of sin, and of our adoption to be the sons of God by the Holy Ghost," (39 Articles, Article 27). "Baptism is a sacrament of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ, not only for the solemn admission of the party baptized into the visible Church; but also to be unto him a sign and seal of the covenant of grace, of his ingrafting into Christ, *of regeneration, of remission of sins,"* (WCF, Chapter 28, Of Baptism). "...All these things are assured by baptism. *For inwardly we are regenerated, purified, and renewed* by God through the Holy Spirit and outwardly we receive the assurance of the greatest gifts in the water," (Second Helvetic Confession, Chapter 20). "And so we utterly condemn the vanity of those who affirm the sacraments to be nothing else than naked and bare signs. No, we assuredly believe that *by Baptism we are engrafted into Christ Jesus, to be made partakers of his righteousness, by which our sins are covered and remitted,"* (Scots Confession, Chapter 21). The reformed view is baptismal regeneration.
Worship can be anytime, however GOD never changes! How can you pick and choose which laws you have to follow? Do not commit adultery is more important than have no other gods before me? Do not steal is more important than remember the sabbath (which GOD established in genesis). I don't understand.
I agree that we don’t have thoughts that are original in the sense of brand new, but we don’t have to have the same thought patterns that others have who constructed the confessions. I line up very closely with John MacArthur and I see these things in scripture. Yet I don’t hold to all of his views as I disagree with him on a couple of points. As we need to give a defence for what we believe to others and the Lord I don’t believe we just phone it in with tradition and let our witness and testimony be co-opted by tradition, that’s very Roman Catholic and not very discerning.
Obviously, Right Response, you have never actually read Charles Finney. I have an entire shelf of his books. He is the reason why I am still a devoted Christian. Finney was a moderate Calvinist ....I am no Calvinist, but was tempted for a while, but now Anglican Catholic, unlike Finney who became a Congregationalist. You really turn people off when you lie about the great revivalists from the second great awakening. By the way, Warfield and Hodge would be horrified by your "New Measures".
I definitely have. He advocated Christian perfectionism, had a wonky view of the Trinity, and was infatuated with denying original sin and substitutionary atonement. All of which are basic and fundamental Christian beliefs.
HAHAHAHA. Clearly you know nothing about Finny. He was anything but a dazzling orator. When Charles Spurgeon saw Finny preach in London, he remarked that Finny was anything but a dazzling orator, but his reasoning was impossible to refute. You can read it in Spurgeon's "Lectures to My Students." It was a brief passing statement. Sorry, don't have the book handy to give the page. Besides this, if you actually read his autobiography or his theology or his lectures on revival, you would see that he always sought to quench any emotional outbursts during his meetings. He is definitely not in the category of the other men mentioned here. "Seeker sensitive," you have to be kidding. He shook people to their core making them see their need for salvation because of their lost state and most of the people he preached to were "good church people," mostly Presbyterian Calvinists. LoL
Praise God for Billy Graham and all the millions of people who came to know Christ through his ministry.
As a woman, I agree there are way too many women in positions that men should be in within the church. The men have become weak or were never strong to begin with in their Christian authority. It's disheartening.
Yes and no. As a man in his mid thirties I’ve volunteered to step up and lead many of things including a few different start up ministries in my last church that was open to lady preachers only to be shut down several times. But when the women started ministries it was always received with open arms. Men of the past might have been weak. But men of today are often not the same but they are just often told to sit down you had your turn.
”This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;“
1 Timothy 3:1-2 KJV
Women are not supposed to hold any position in the church
@@michaelclark2458 Get out of churches that allow women to preach. That is the issue. Let's pour our time, effort and money into churches and organizations that have a proper understanding of the roles of men and women.
@@hisservants8003 I did. I served faithfully there for 10 years. When I first went they did not allow lady preachers. That came later. I was the main objector to it being introduced. A cursory read through Revelation 2-3 teaches clearly that some are called to faithfully remain and obey in a church who is becoming apostate. But there also comes a time when you must leave. Shortly after the birth of my son I started looking. I didn’t want him exposed to it. If it was just me and my wife I may have stayed longer to rebuke the false doctrine of lady preachers. I loved them enough to stay and be a true witness longer than I would have if I hadn’t previously built connections and fellowship.
I totally agree! Where are the biblical males? Where are the Bible only churches? Why are there 'new testament only ' churches?
Putting Charles Finney, Billy Graham, and Andy Stanley in the same category is wild.
it's valid tho
Click bait, of course they never discussed any of them.
Webbon is pandering.
I had the same thought. There are miles of difference between Billy Graham and Andy Stanley.
Doesn’t Andy Stanley think Muslims will be saved then?
Wild is probably not the correct adjective! Maybe an extremely UNJUST comparison!
I didn't hear anything in this episode about Billy Graham or Andy Stanley. Would love to hear more specifically about their association with Charles Finney. Thank you.
Same. What happened? Thanks.
This is a continuation from a previous episode on those men specifically I believe.
@@samueljimenez7420could you link us to it?
lol my TH-cam is on auto-play. This intro came on and it caught my attention. I said “I need to subscribe to this guy!” And picked up my phone and lo and behold it is RRM. Fantastic work guys haha I’ve been subscribed and watching for about a year now, and you’re still keeping it fresh and interesting.
Praise God for the work He is doing through this ministry.
Really appreciate that!!
Thanks!
Thank you!!
Save your money! This smug lot don't need it. They're mistaken about how hard it is for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle.
Great discussion men. I spent most my life in an SBC church, mostly in small town Kentucky and a few years at an ABA church, so I understand everything you men spoke of. You men give me hope for the future of Christianity.
Truly appreciated
Thank you for being bold and including Billy Graham.
Woman, here 🙋♀️. I so totally understand staffing the church with all men. And I, myself, recently (on good terms) stepped down from a paid leadership position as Children’s Church Director. I go to a nondenominational charismatic church that has ties to the Assembly of God denomination. Our pastor is a woman who knows the Word & is a great person. Our lead prayer minister is a wonderful woman. I respect both of these God loving women, but it just doesn’t sit right in my gut that they are in these pivotal roles. Leading the men of the congregation in Word & prayer. It’s off putting.
Very good to hear. You deserve respect for standing up for what is right. Even when it costs you.
Glory be to God for giving you eyes to see and ears to hear.
I am so happy to hear that the Holy Spirit is leading you to follow His word, not the culture. Bless you sister.
Praise God for Godly women wanting to please God rather than other women and or ignorant men! Now as far as you stepping down from this position, I am not o sure that anything was that wrong with it as you were working with children and directing all that. As a Godly man I don't see you as head of the church in this position or preaching in the pulpit every Sunday morning and trying to teach men every Wednesday night??? Not too sure about this decision BUT I can tell you that the women "headship" you are under is DEFINITELY NOT BIBLICAL! I pray that The Holy Spirit continues to lead you in every way and HE continues to fill the voids you may have. Bless you Sister! ;-) In JESUS' NAME!
Your church has no pastor and those women do not love God or else they would not be in those positions
I gotta grow a beard and look like a dandy to fit in with these reformed dudes now ... maybe buy some $300 shoes and a polyester jacket
I was very interested in hearing the commentary about Charles Finney, Billy Graham, and Andy Stanley. Alas, not a word about them during the entire conversation. Clickbait.
#metoo
Came to the comment section to say the same.
Well, the conversation was more of an explanation of how these particular individuals, along with a plethora of others, have operated their Lord’s Day worship service in a way that has completely missed the mark in terms of how God has instructed His people to worship on Sundays and to draw near to Him. These particular names are huge names that have contributed to the disfunction of the modern evangelical Lord’s day worship service, so the discussion was actually explaining why/ how that is.
@@caitlynyoung1402, the discussion indeed had value, but it was not as advertised: “SEEKER SENSITIVE HERETICS: CHARLES FINNEY, BILLY GRAHAM, & ANDY STANLEY”.
I like this channel, but they should do better.
Agreed, there is plenty of evidence available to justify the title of this video. Too bad it wasn’t organized and presented as advertised. Lots of people need to know the truth.
An evangelical family member, upon hearing that we were catechizing our young children, said, “Isn’t that a Catholic thing?” We had to inform that individual that the Catholic Church started catechizing their people because the Protestants did it first. The lack of church history knowledge is sad. The ignorance surrounding the use of confessions is another common issue.
wait, what? Catechizing was a Protestant thing first???? Please can you give me a good source on this??? I am in seminary but haven't taken my church history classes yet and would love to understand this!
I've heard quite a few evangelicals say the same. It's disheartening.
PRAISE OUR LORD JESUS!!! Grace and peace Pastor Joel!
Thank you so much for this episode it was such a blessing from our Great Lord Christ!! I found it really helpful when you were all talking about how the seeker-sensitive church is very individualistic and consumerist, and that its liturgy is man-focused instead of God-focused.
It really explained something I could not put my finger on, but knew was wrong in seeker-sensitive churches. It has given me content that I can share with my seeker-sensitive church going friends, a great gift from God!
I am wondering if you may please elaborate further on why Charles Finney, Billy Graham, & Andy Stanley are seeker-sensitive heretics. Especially Billy Graham, as he is held very highly by many evangelicals when he should not be.
Soli Deo gloria!! Prayers to you and your family and church my dear elder brother in the Lord!
Nobody in America owns property, they just rent it from the government. Try doing something with 'your' property that goes against the zoning laws, or decide to not pay the property tax because you don't like most of it going to the local child indoctrination centers, and you will find out fast who REALLY owns your house and land!
Extremely frustrating, ain't it. The government is not your friend and has no true good intentions for you.
Or even your neighborhood HOA!
I agree that the current government is evil, but I have mixed views on how property tax ought to be handled with good government. It's true that with property tax, there is no true ownership. On the other hand, it's actually the government that secures your property rights through force. If a group of robbers came to your house, you could call the police to fight them for you, and that's the government. Without government, you'd have to fight off roving bandits and foreign armies by yourself, which is practically probably not possible for individual people to do. So practically speaking, the only one who actually owns the land is the one who secures his access to it by force. That usually means government. So, in a certain practical sense, government is the only entity that ever really owns land, and the citizens just rent it. The government is actually providing a service for you in recognizing and securing your land, so it kind of makes sense that citizens ought to pay a tax for that service. The only other way I could imagine that it could be would be if every landowner personally served in the local militia that secured property rights, and then there would be no need to pay land tax. Otherwise, if there were no land tax, the landowners are receiving a service from the government that they aren't paying for.
Where was the part about Graham & Stanley? Listened and didn't hear them mentioned, did I miss it?
I know It's not something to laugh about but I couldn't contain myself hearing Joel say in such a calm voice "purple haired female lesbian pastor". He said it in such a normal tone as if it's nothing out of the ordinary for the current times we are in.
😂
Praying for you gentlemen to come home to Rome💪. Jesus established one church. The Catholic Church. Deus Vult 🔥
The section on obligation, duty, and tradition is slightly ironic coming from reformers who hold certain sets of beliefs that would perplex the Patristic Fathers and the pre-Schism church.
That said, I agree with the sentiments deeply. I’m learning a lot from you fellows as an Orthodox Church. May God bless you and your families.
36:01. The discussion about truth, reality and AI is one of the greatest concerns for today's Christians. We have a terrible formula thrown upon us today: AI technologies + man's sinful nature = the destruction of truth. It's becoming increasingly difficult (if not impossible) to know what's real and what is not. I see this all the time, on FB, Pinterest, YT, etc., where I suspect only a small minority of the photos/videos I see are real and/or truthful. This is a HUGE concern for Christians. Jesus IS truth, yet we are inundated with falsehoods every day. Our churches and our weekly services must be the exact opposite of what our culture is becoming. Church should be REAL when our world is not.
The Billy Graham Center at Wheaton College is an incredible world Class Archive of Hostorocal evidence of over 100 years of testimony of missionary 👪 including :NATE Saint, and Jim Elliot who were martyred for the Kingdom of Christ. Elisabeth Elliot has been a powerful writer whose prose has effectively inspired and discipled thousands of Christian men and women. "FOR CHRIST AND HIS KINGDOM."
What is "Hostorocal" ? LoL
@@danjohnson887Was going to go to the dictionary on that one too.
He clearly just misspelled historical
@@danjohnson887 Dah, Dan, it was a typo "Historical" , didn't you observe that ?
@@danjohnson887 It appears to be a common typo in that both the i and o on the keyboard are next to each other. Instead of mocking someone, why not politely bring it to the commenter's attention so they can edit it?
Definitely click bait. You had the opportunity with that title to expose dangerous doctrines taught by those three wolves and you opted instead to discuss liturgy and the role of women in the church, and never mention them.
Ever since I heard talk of Finny being heretical I have searched out many hours of his matarial and am yet to find a single thing.
To credit finny with errors done by others a century later is a most dishonest misrepresentation. To do so is to bear false witness.
Psalm 136 models for us a call and response element in our liturgies.
Finney has a most confusing soteriology. Billy Graham has a more consistent message. I'm neither pure Arminian, Calvinists, Dispensational. I do grieve over the state of Evangelical Christendom in general. Led to Faith in Christ by Lutheran Camp counselor almost 50 years ago this summer 1974 . God opened my heart and mind to the Bible through Billy Graham, Hal Lindsey. Jack Van Impe. Had dark experiences in both Charismatic, Calvinistic, and IFB circles. Too much emphasis on 'Altar Calls' as guilt trip
Correct me if i'm wrong but I sense a Calvinistic bent in OP . Don't get me wrong, I'm not one to 'throw anyone under the bus' as far as their individual salvation, but I'm disturbed by certain Calvinists who judge me as 'unsaved' because I don't adhere to 5pts.
you're not saved because you're not a 5 pointer, you're just inconsistent lol
@@jalapeno.tabasco Nevertheless I HATE Calvinism
@@longstreet2740 you hate the idea what God unconditionally chooses who to save?
I thought you guys were going to talk about the three men you have in your subject heading.
Fort those of us new to the channel, what exactly do you mean by "trash world"?
Hello! I was listening here on YT and switched over to Spotify and I believe last week’s Friday episode was re-uploaded in place of this episode on Spotify.
Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We will take a look
Should be fixed but you'll have to download the new episode. Had to delete the old one. Here is a direct link: podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/theology-applied/episodes/THE-FRIDAY-SPECIAL---Seeker-Sensitive-Heretics--Charles-Finney--Billy-Graham---Andy-Stanley-e2ft2fe/a-aavl9fi
@@RightResponseMinistries Thank you, I appreciate it.
Billy Graham has a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame
That tells you all you need to know about him.
@@SavedFromWrathThroughChrist92Actually it doesn’t.
@@ChristianTrinity411 Actually it does. If Hollywood loves a preacher of the gospel, then something is terribly wrong with his preaching and witness. The world will hate those who are truly standinf for Christ & the gospel. One who is truly light in the world will be despised by the darkness. Now go read your Bible.
@@ChristianTrinity411do some research on him then. He was a Judas goat
He didn't say his people were the stones. He said one of them was the rock.
"Emotional Manipulation". I was converted with "emotional manipulation" and continue to feel deep, real, unquestionable emotion every time I sing, pray, read the Bible, and listen to sermons. Do I rely only rely on emotions? Of course not. Emotions change. But when I'm not 'feeling' it that doesn't mean I say "Oh, I guess I'm not feeling it anymore. Time to move on from Christianity". Seems like the reformed tradition really hates emotions. You all also seem to think that those who feel emotion are devoid of truth, doctrine, true biblical understanding, and are self-centered. The emotions I feel stir me toward evangelism, they lead me to want to share the Gospel, they ignite my passion for God.
Side Note: Do people from the reformed/cessationist camp ever stop to actually consider that their character and personality comes across as extremely prideful? Not just talking about this channel. Pay attention to all the different channels and you'll see what I'm talking about. I'm convinced reformed circles attract a certain type of personality. You'll understand when people engage with the comment section :)
wow like you 1 to 1. I am so glad that you wrote that. Like you just gave voice to my thought which i could not put into words. I agree with you completely :D
Feeling emotions toward Christ and His gospel is simply not the same thing as the emotional manipulation being discussed here.
Manipulation means or at least implies that you wouldn't be correctly having those reactions without the manipulative aspects.
I don't think they're trying to assert that having an emotional response in worship or prayer or reading God's Word is wrong or fake at all, or that it's even mutually exclusive with what's true. They don't seem to be saying that an emotional response is always manipulated. But they're pointing out that particularly in modern worship, there is a formulated push to manipulate an emotional response that isn't genuine or tied to a true knowledge of Who God is and the message of the Gospel. Emotion is a natural part of your relationship with God, and the congregation's relationship with God and each other. With that said, it should come about to emphasize, and as a result of, our knowledge of God and what He has done for us. Not from the hype of the crowd, a combination of musical chords, lights and smoke, and the rest.
Emotional manipulation and emotions are two different things. One is biblical one is evil
it’s weird that people say that reformed folks are prideful but reformed preaching is the most God centered and holds God’s sovereignty to the highest degree
Please no back ground music😢😢😢
I'll just ask this here. I was just watching today's sermon about Ezra and while listening, it was made private and I couldn't continue. I also noticed an earlier Ezra sermon is now private. I'm wondering what happened here. And the website is a month behind 😢
Hey @Burnak7383 - I’m replacing this weeks with a higher quality as the stream today was real bad quality. I temporarily made the stream file public for you to try and finish it up but I’ll be replacing it as soon as an export is done. Last weeks is up - the file from Sunday had worship on it and needed to be replaced as well. I’ll double check that it’s on the playlist. Also, thanks for letting me know about the website - I’ll take a look!
- Nathan
Every Billy Graham sermon I've heard was pretty hells fire and biblically sound. He's on record of saying he would've been happy if even 5% of people who attended his crusades were truly saved. That doesn't sound very seeker-confident to me.
His old sermons in black and white are the best. 1970’s after are pretty average
I thought so too but he worked with some demonic people and he taught some iffy things
He got compromised and controlled 😪 i think he started out with good intentions.
Billy Graham was a heretic who taught a false gospel. I recommend the book Billy Graham and his Friends by Cathy Burns.
I don't want to binge-watch any show.
You MUST!
Please stop with the clickbait. You guys didn't even mention these 3 preachers.
There is absolutely no extended conversation about Billy Graham amd the international Seminary Movement his leadership has birthed in tge last 80 years at: Fuller Theological Seminary (Pasadena, CA ) and Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary (Boston, Massachusetts. Very misleading.
Thanks for your comment. Now I won't waste my time trying to find what is their problem with Billy Graham.
Idk if its click bait.. maybe poorly titled.. but it is in context.. it’s talking about the heretics that came from these teachers
Independent thinkers all think the same, awesome.
45min into this and turning it off. I've waited as long as I can and still have not heard Charles Finney, Bill Graham, or Andy Stanley's name even mentioned. So am thinking it was a clickbait headline built on a lie to get someone to open the video.
Now it's just gone over the edge. Should've known it would when I saw AD Robles on as a guest. The only other thing I'll say, FWIW, is that it's just the kind of talk from AD and Joel agreeing with him that churches should even hire any females, even as a Secretary, that gives the Egalitarians fodder for their canons.
True. They often say true things, but sometimes they are nuttier than a squirrel turd lol
I learned a lot about the historical protestant church practice from this video. If protestants still acted the way they described, I would probably go to church.
It came straight from the mouth of Paul that women aren't supposed to have authority over men. If you don't believe that, then you're not Christian.
I’d like to know what is going on with Rachel Denhollander.
Speaking of “just you and me”, does this host ever let anyone else speak more than he?
He's definitely arrogant and close minded. He talks down on everyone that disagrees with him. He demonstrated this very clearly in his video with redeemed zoomer on evolution
lol 😂😂😂😂 Charles Finney !?!? One thing he WAS NOT was seeker sensitive! I’m afraid your credibility has taken a hit….
Definitely
What I'm hearing is that many of you are disappointed that the Three were not discussed. Regardless of where they began Finney and Stanley became heretics.The beloved and lauded Billy Graham became openly a kind of universalist in his later years. He expressed this in TV and published interviews. Don't believe me? Do your own research.The scripture is the final judge of whether or not our icons finish well, not our emotions.
Check out the book Billy Graham and His Friends by Dr. Cathy Burns.
Title was just clickbait
You are better than this brother
Love your stuff but this one was silly
Looking forward to you moving on
The comparison of FInney, Graham and Stanley is spot on !!!
Nice looking group of Pharisees you got there.
Why traditions instead of just Bible?
Ahhhh the good old South Park underpants gnomes reference and business model!
Listen at 1:39 min mark...."With the COMING OF THE SPIRIT at PENTECOST, His people BECOME THE LIVING STONES of a new Temple. Huh? This is heresy. The early church did not become 'living stones" or become saved at Pentecost. They were already saved! They were believers being clothed with power as the Lord promised
I agree with you guys on some things, disagree on others, and am grateful for things you make me think about.
Do you honestly believe people who don’t agree with you on things like this are heretics? Because that’s beyond disagreement on a Biblical issue, even on one with real consequences. That’s claiming they don’t belong to Jesus. If that’s honestly what you believe, that you’re being definitional and not just insulting, that’s fine. For the record, I’m with you that we’ve gotten away from God-centered worship. But you seem to wield the term “heretic” like the left does the term “Nazi.” It’s really off-putting.
It’s kind of funny hearing a “reformed” baptist calling other Christians heretics. I don’t think y’all should get too comfortable throwing around the H word.
😅 makes sense now. I was trying to figure out who are these folks and what’s their angle. “Reformed” kinda tells me all I need to know. Thanks w
Then go be a Catholic. Have at it. There are heresies and they need to be confronted.
@@benq.3653 them using a term “heretic” so freely is a good warning sign for me anyway. Every denomination (sect) of Christianity guilty of this but so called “reformed” are high up there among some of the most arrogant ones. I can’t speak about the other two guys in the video but I know enough about Billy that I would be very uneasy (to put it mildly) calling him “heretic”.
@@benq.3653 well unless I’m wrong about this but I’m pretty sure when it comes to the sacraments they would be heretical by most Christian orthodoxy. I mean would they let anybody who was baptized as an infant take communion? Or would they require another baptism?
Y'all are getting some Arminian hate brothers in these comments, lol. Good discussion men.
Calling Finney “Seeker-sensitive” if a great way to announce your ignorance or dishonesty.
“Finney preached and sometimes the whole congregation would get up and leave. That’s good preaching!” - Leonard Ravenhill
”Finney never made an altar call within the first twenty eight nights of preaching. Most of our evangelists don’t have twenty eight sermons. Twenty eight nights in a row and he never made an altar call. He didn’t preach the love of God. He didn’t say ‘you’re a sinner, God loves you.’ He said ‘God is angry with the wicked every day’ which the Word of God says. He didn’t preach grace, he preached Law. He didn’t preach love, he preached judgment. He didn’t preach heaven, he preached hell. He didn’t say ‘you’re a wonderful person’ he said ‘you’re a rebel’. But he got results.” - Leonard Ravenhill
I had the same realization about "Only You" by David Crowder Band. Not a good congregational song.
Charles finney - the example that Justification is NOT cognitive dissonance
And now they field goal kick bibles in some churches because don’t be too traditional right?
?Where in the Bible does it talk about Liturgy?
I love your podcast
Please could someone define "Trashworld".
The western world 2024
?What is “Trash World”?
Not a lot of scripture to back up their condemnation
Good liturgy is what you think, bad ones are what others think!?
What did Finney teach that was heretical?
Very good talk. The only disturbing aspect is the unBiblical infatuation with one of the leading idols of our time in alcohol/wine. If you can practice sound hermeneutics and repent of that sin you guys will be awesome.
Billy Graham a heretic?
Really?🤔
Guess I'll tune in.
Probably a reference to the Robert schuler interview.
@Pastor_Grant yeah, I think he's talked about that on another show b4.
Yes, he was. He preached “say the sinner’s prayer”, not the Gospel. Likewise, he and his son both yoked with the most notoriously false teachers who existed/exist.
@patrickc3419 just because you disagree with him doesn't make him a heretic.
These are your opinions, not objective truth.
@@timcummiskey1178 who would excommunicate him? Billy didn't go / attend church, nor did he have a plurality of elders who could hold him accountable or am I wrong?
Even the words " you're going to be disappointed" in heaven when you can't romanticize Jesus by yourself is just so wrong. Do you know the completeness God brings. His restoration and love will not leave someone disappointed in something they thought and were wrong about. You are going to be exactly where and who you were always seen to be. If anything you will be laughing at how silly or wrong some of our ideas on things are lol. Praise Jesus he is the good Shepherd with a good plan
The way you are talking about Christs body is so 😢upsetting. “This part of the body kicked the butt of this part of the body.” Go back to the drawing board guys. Stop judging other peoples worship, there is no worship in this video. So sad. Perhaps the time making this video to sell product to the Church would be better spent on your knees praying for The Church?
How can we correct others for selling a Sunday product while at the same time selling a product. I am grieving this video. Love you my brothers but you have a blind spot equal to the blind spots you are pointing out in others.
This is just wicked. Finney was a great evangelist. Shame on you for attacking him.
I seriously doubt that Graham was a heretic
What is trash world? I dont understand.....
While Billy Graham did indeed say some things and do some things that brought reproach on the Gospel, he still did a lot for the faith when it came to Evangelism.
Billy Graham taught a false gospel.
Also you weren't converted with emotional manipulation you were converted by the power of God called the new birth because Before Time began God elected you to be saved so you were one of the ones the father gave to the son in eternity past that is proper theology on salvation and knowing that correctly should make you very emotional with thankfulness and humility not Pride the doctrines of Grace ought to Humble you incredibly and make you very thankful that God had mercy upon you and make you in awe of his majesty and character and purpose and ability. The true gospel is god-centered for God's glory not man-centered for man's benefit and Glory
Calvinists being calvinists. They can’t help themselves.
They all have big foreheads.
For their big brains
big brain dawgy
You said the conservative church was only closed for 4 weeks but the right church was never closed you guys need to draw closer to God and you need to read the scripture in Acts that says the baptism of the holy spirit is for all those afar off all those that God will call and God has been calling all men to repentance seek God seek God's perfect will seek to be his disciple seek to be his apostle you're a pastor our pastor still in operation then Apostles are still in operation seek God and be very careful when you talk about men who went to the woods and got on their knees and saw God for the Salvation of souls like Charles Finney least God show you in a bad way to shut your mouth
Infant baptists DO believe in baptismal regeneration, you made an error at 10:49. We believe baptism saves, as the scriptures and creeds affirm.
Exactly. 😂 there is no real regeneration and when they grow up they.deny Christ.
@@benq.3653 Scots Confession, Chapter 21:
"...And so we utterly condemn the vanity of those who affirm the sacraments to be nothing else than naked and bare signs. No, we assuredly believe that by Baptism we are engrafted into Christ Jesus, to be made partakers of his righteousness, *by which our sins are covered and remitted..."*
Nicene Creed:
"We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins;"
Westminster 1646, Chapter 28:
Baptism is a sacrament of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ, not only for the solemn admission of the party baptized into the visible Church but also to be unto him a sign and seal of the covenant of grace, of his ingrafting into Christ, *of regeneration,* of remission of sins,"
It would be incorrect to deny baptismal regeneration as a Presbyterian according to both of these confessions.
We presbyterians believe in infant baptism but not in baptismal regeneration.
@@jamesers99 my comment appears to have been deleted but yes, Presbyterians believe in baptismal regeneration. I had sections from the Scots confession and the Creeds but they got deleted. I hope this will suffice:
"Baptism is a sacrament of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ, not only for the solemn admission of the party baptized into the visible Church; but also to be unto him a sign and seal of the covenant of grace, of his ingrafting into Christ, of *regeneration,* of remission of sins..." (WCF, 28- Of Baptism)
Baptism saves us. Baptism regenerates us. That's the orthodox reformed view.
@@jamesers99 "Baptism is not only a sign of profession, and mark of difference, whereby Christian men are discerned from others that be not christened, but it is also a sign of *Regeneration or New-Birth,* whereby, as by an instrument, they that receive Baptism rightly are grafted into the Church; the promises of the forgiveness of sin, and of our adoption to be the sons of God by the Holy Ghost," (39 Articles, Article 27).
"Baptism is a sacrament of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ, not only for the solemn admission of the party baptized into the visible Church; but also to be unto him a sign and seal of the covenant of grace, of his ingrafting into Christ, *of regeneration, of remission of sins,"* (WCF, Chapter 28, Of Baptism).
"...All these things are assured by baptism. *For inwardly we are regenerated, purified, and renewed* by God through the Holy Spirit and outwardly we receive the assurance of the greatest gifts in the water," (Second Helvetic Confession, Chapter 20).
"And so we utterly condemn the vanity of those who affirm the sacraments to be nothing else than naked and bare signs. No, we assuredly believe that *by Baptism we are engrafted into Christ Jesus, to be made partakers of his righteousness, by which our sins are covered and remitted,"* (Scots Confession, Chapter 21).
The reformed view is baptismal regeneration.
I wonder how much these guys have to pay their local cigar bar to let them record there 😂
finney and stanley sure, but not Graham
Graham especially.
Hoc est corpus meum
Are you guys saved?
Finney was far from “seeker-sensitive.” This is slander.
Billy Graham wasn't perfect, but putting him in the same category with Charles Finney and Andy Stanley is a step too far.
He was a heretic who sought to bring the whole of protestantism back under the control of Mother Rome.
Equating Graham with Andy Stanley is like equating Charles Stanley with Benny Hinn or TD Jakes!! Ridiculous!
Graham was a wicked heretic.
Worship can be anytime, however GOD never changes! How can you pick and choose which laws you have to follow? Do not commit adultery is more important than have no other gods before me? Do not steal is more important than remember the sabbath (which GOD established in genesis). I don't understand.
Billy Graham though? Billy Graham was neither seeker sensitive nor a heretic. You need to check yourself.
He was a total wolf.
I agree that we don’t have thoughts that are original in the sense of brand new, but we don’t have to have the same thought patterns that others have who constructed the confessions.
I line up very closely with John MacArthur and I see these things in scripture. Yet I don’t hold to all of his views as I disagree with him on a couple of points.
As we need to give a defence for what we believe to others and the Lord I don’t believe we just phone it in with tradition and let our witness and testimony be co-opted by tradition, that’s very Roman Catholic and not very discerning.
Talking heads....talking about worship of which it is apparent to me they haven't a clue. Lol
Obviously, Right Response, you have never actually read Charles Finney. I have an entire shelf of his books. He is the reason why I am still a devoted Christian. Finney was a moderate Calvinist ....I am no Calvinist, but was tempted for a while, but now Anglican Catholic, unlike Finney who became a Congregationalist. You really turn people off when you lie about the great revivalists from the second great awakening. By the way, Warfield and Hodge would be horrified by your "New Measures".
I definitely have. He advocated Christian perfectionism, had a wonky view of the Trinity, and was infatuated with denying original sin and substitutionary atonement. All of which are basic and fundamental Christian beliefs.
Get to the point!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHA. Clearly you know nothing about Finny. He was anything but a dazzling orator. When Charles Spurgeon saw Finny preach in London, he remarked that Finny was anything but a dazzling orator, but his reasoning was impossible to refute. You can read it in Spurgeon's "Lectures to My Students." It was a brief passing statement. Sorry, don't have the book handy to give the page. Besides this, if you actually read his autobiography or his theology or his lectures on revival, you would see that he always sought to quench any emotional outbursts during his meetings. He is definitely not in the category of the other men mentioned here. "Seeker sensitive," you have to be kidding. He shook people to their core making them see their need for salvation because of their lost state and most of the people he preached to were "good church people," mostly Presbyterian Calvinists. LoL
Why all the laughs dude? You type rebuttals like a 14 year old. Be better.
It’s baptism of confusion. Copied from Catholics
What did Finney teach that was heretical?
Apparently, they think him heretical because he was highly critical of Calvinism.