One thing for sure, Chamila was not murdered for singing vulgar songs, it was because he had become tooooo popular, threat to other singers. They felt insecure 😮. 😮😮. Tamkanat's review is otherwise quite valid
بیہودہ بیہودہ ہی ہوتا ہے، چاہے اُردو میں ہو، پنجابی میں ہو، انگریزی میں ہو۔۔۔ ہر زبان میں جو vulgarity پھیلائی ہوئی ہے، سب کی مخالفت کرنی چاہیے۔۔۔ لوگوں کا ایسے گانوں اور فلموں سے پیار اُن کے لیے صحیح نہیں ہے اور اس بات کو وہ کبھی نہیں سمجھیں گے۔
You are absolutely right.Wo kehty hen na k dho b dia aur sukha b dia asliyat dikha kr sb ki. 😂 Aur jahan tk rahi bat,western dance moves ar Nergis dance moves ki,to ye difference hum chah kr b khatam nhi kr skty.. han koshish ki ja skti hy..q k heer ranjha sb ny dekhi,sb ny pasand ki..per apny gher ki lerki heer bannay lagay to ghairat jag jati hy..sirf isliay k heer kisi ki beeti the aur uska tamasha enjoy kia ja skta tha??? Sad but harsh reality of our society
Yaar yeh tum log itna sach bolnay.lagay hu our culture isn't used to it. لوگوں کے منہ کڑوے ہو رہے ہیں۔۔۔listening to so much truth in one go....😊😊😊...keep it up .
And yes there is vulgarity n people have the right to call something vulgar. If lyrics of a song are sexist, promotes cheating n extra marital affairs, murder, child abuse, violence, terror amd so on it is vulgar. It should be labelled as vulgar. A rap song can be vulgar, a folk song can be vulgar, a pop song can be vulgar, a hindi song, english song, arabic song or bengali song can be vulgar. Beyonce can be vulgar and mahira khan can be vulgar. Class or status does'nt decide vulgarity. What decides vulgarity is the content of the song, film or dance. Making obscene sexual gestures and making others and children around you uncomfortable is vulgar. Ab chahe woh gestures koi american kare ya koi indian , african, pakistani ya japanese.
Well said Vulgar would be vulgar if we talk about it or not, if it would be done by Muslims or non Muslims, but our industry has responsibility to show some decent dramas movies songs etc
الفاظ کا چناؤ اور ادائیگی کا اسلوب ایک واضح فرق لاتا ہے. ایک ہی بات الفاظ کے فرق سے بہت بدل جاتی ہے. مثال کے طور پر "کھانا تناول فرمائیں"، "کھانا کھائیں"، "ٹھونس لو کھانا"...
ap ny bht sy zawaye mix up krdye, m sirf ye kehna chahnga k behouda fiqra , behouda he hota hy , chahy english m ho ya urdu ya ksi ar zaban m , hn pakistan m hmary zehno m ye daal dya gya hy k punjabi zaban m tmeez ar shaistgi ne , eastern punjabi sunyen , wo baat krty hye bhe itny he muhazab lgty hen jesy hum urdu bolty hye shyd uss sy bhe zyda
I don't know what;s wrong with you! Logically speaking, any language is sweet as long as it's spoken SOFTLY. Urdu is usually spoken softly, plus persian words make it even smoother. Punjabi is sweet too. But only when it's not too LOUD. So, the language is not the problem. The way it's spoken is the problem.
I'm from Punjab, India. Your explanation is so intelligently put that hopefully people can understand this. My favorite singers are Amarjot, Noor Jehan, Naseebo, Reshma, Asha Bhosle , Sunidhi Chauhan... because that's MY PREFERENCE I hate these "soft docile teekhi awaaz". Music is such a personal thing and yet we judge people on it. Also just in addition Chamkila was daring but imagine the fearlessness of Amarjot for singing these lyrics I admire her way more than Chamkila.
What you have said might be right , I can not comment on it as I am not a Punjabi speaker... So I hv not experienced it ... But but but vulger is vulger in any language... Ziada tar gany gandy aur vulger hoty hain. Inka maqsad he yhi Hy. ( Behes sy phly thori history aur research krlijay ga) Ab wo Shakira ho naseebo ya lata whatever. ..
Sorry don't agree with you on this, i actually went and browsed some of his songs ...those things are beyond vulgur...downright incest , bahu, bhabi no one is spared... that content would be cringe no matter what the language
how will you translate in Urdu the naseebo famous song... jadun sonwan mahi de nere honwan.. manji de wich dang pherda.... please translate in urdu (manji de wich dang pherda) 😜
Jiya Jale from Dil Se.. is a narration of the nuptial night aka SUHAAG RAAT with lyrics by Gulzar Sb, composed by AR Rehman and vocals of Lata Mangeshkar Jee. If we also consider the way it was filmed it can easily be considered as something very obscene yet most of us love it. Madam Noor Jahan gave us Mujhse pehli si mohabat and she also gave us Mein Amb Choopan Lyi Gyi. A singer sings what the audience likes. If we love Kosa kosa dudhh that's our choice and not Naseebo's. If she wont sing it, someone else will. Killing a singer only shows that a society is too toxic and hates acknowledging the fact that they have a sick mindset which they love having yet cannot accept it and end up blaming the singer for it. As for Punjabi vs Urdu, both are languages with good and bad words, the bottomline remains on the way these languages are used. Damagh saaf, sab saaf.
I disagree not completely but partially. His songs were not only considered vulgar because of the language (Punjabi) or his social status. Part of it was because he sang about sensuality between relationships that went against societal norms. It’s easy to digest the same lyrics about two lovers than it is about, for example, bhabi-devar etc. I have no idea if that got him killed, but it’s not only about the “lens” you keep mentioning. It was more than that.
😂😂😂😂👍👍👍👏👏👏بہت اچھے ڈاکٹر صاب۔ اینا غصہ۔ اوئے ہوئے اچھا مٹی پاؤ۔ ایویں شوخی لوگاں تے تسی۔ آمنہ حیدر نال کدوں نظر آؤ گے سوال جواب کردے ھوئے۔ واللہ بڑا چنگا لگایا سی۔ بلکہ ساڈی خواہش ہیگی کہ تسی پرمانینٹ انہاں دے نال گلاں باراں دا سیشن کرو۔
رضیہ سلطانہ مووی کا، جلتا ہے بدن، گانے کی دھن اتنی خوبصورت ہے لیکن اشعار اتنے بے حجابانہ ہیں کہ دوبارہ سے سننا چاہ کر بھی انسان سن نہ پائے۔ Lyrics بھی اثر انداز ہو کر انسان کی صحیح اور غلط کی پہچان ختم کر دیتے ہیں اور دھن بھی طبیعت میں ہیجان پیدا کر دیتی ہے۔ ایسی موسیقی سن کر انسان غلط کاموں کے لئے اپنے من میں جواز پیدا کر لیتا ہے
Punjab's aversion to their mother-tongue from the 50s through to 90s was part of the "state" tacit design to promote Urdu at the expense of regional languages. Upward social mobility and financial well-being, unfortunately, became associated with people shunning their language and heritage. In our Sindhi household, the reverse is true. We frown upon people not speaking their mother-tongue at home. Punjabi youth, the sons & daughters of this great province have reclaimed the language with pride and I am so proud to see this phenomenon unfold. Love your content and wish you the best.
جو چیز آپ فیملی کے ساتھ دیکھ نہیں سکتے سن نہیں سکتے بول نہیں سکتے۔وہ غلط ہے ۔اسے آپ تنہائی میں سنیں۔دیکھیں۔یا بولیں۔وہ گناہ کے زمرے میں آتی ہے ۔اب اسے کسی بھی زبان میں کنورٹ کر لیں۔یا کوئی بھی گا رہا ہو۔یا اہکٹ کر رہا ہو۔ولگر ہی ہے۔
Have recently found you, Proud of you speak punjabi and even more so for talking about cloud of darkness over it by the powers in Pak to take away punjabi nations pride and with it our dignity. Thank you
This is another classist take. Just because you had not heard of him doesn’t make him any less of a star. You can literally search ‘the highest selling punjabi artist’ and see if he was popular or not. Just because someone did not perform in concert like settings in cities doesn’t mean that he wasn’t famous. He performed internationally and was a massive success of his time.
Who told you that punjabi language is low the case is not of language but of the content and high pitch of voice and the way it is spoken by some people.Other wise punjabi is understandable language more than other regional languages
میرے ساتھ ایک واقعہ ہوا اردو اور پنجابی کو لے کر۔ لاہور نیو ہسپتال میں میرا دوست حادثہ ہونے کی وجہ سے وہاں داخل تھا۔ میں نے لیڈیز ڈاکٹر سے پنجابی میں بات کی انہوں نے مجھے کہا تم مجھ سے بدتمیزی سے بات کر رہے ہو۔ اور وہی بات میرے دوست نے اردو میں کی تو وہ آرام سے سن رہی تھی پھر میرے دوست نے مجھے بتایا کہ یہ پنجابی بولنے والوں کو بے وقوف اور بدتمیز سمجھتی ہیں ۔
My dear I agree with all of the time but not on this one Vulgarity in any language is vulgarity khalaas Well I love naseebo lal and I like Lata as well I don’t watch shakira or Beyoncé for me they are too vulgar I think the best jokes are in Punjabi which will loose its humour if translated in Urdu
Teri hikk te malaya'n aaya'n Bapu sada gum ho gya teri maa di talashi leni Menu shiker dopehray naodi nu jeth takda Kuri pataka steering nu hath paondi Jeeja lak minr Jeeja ve tenu chaska pe gya sali da, seenay lag ja saliye sadu tu akh bcha ke ni Translate above songs to any language and let's see if they are vulgar or not. Chamkila objectified women in most of his songs. It's not about romanticism. Also, there are two types of language, even Punjabi has two types "Litrature and Street language". You can compare Shiv Kumar Batalvi and Chamkila although it's injustice to Shiv, but to get the idea. Shiv Kumar Batalvi was a famous Punjabi poet and wrote in Loona "Ik chhaati (Breast) meri haad (4th month of Desi Year) tapanda dooji tabda jaith (3rd month of Desi Year), ni mai agg turi perdes ni sayyo mai agg turi perdes (Loona said this when entering her doli)" this stuff is not vulgar but emotional and has a deep meaning. Please stop fooling Punjabi people who never even had a chance to read a single word of Punjabi Literature, are even unaware that it actually exists.
Hmmm for me Lata or Gulzar's lyrics are vulgar too. And Naseebo Lal before she was not popular used to sing v vulgar songs which if translated into Urdu were equally vulgar.
Sometimes when we are mindlessly listening to a song, without knowing the lyrics or sometimes when we can't follow the lyrics of a song and it feels to be good and then we happen to read its lyrics and we are like WHAT was I listening to. Point being just because something has a soothing effect or said in a melodious way, doesn't mean it is necessarily good. We need to be mindful of what we are listening to and if we get to know it has bad lyrics we shouldn't listen to it anymore. Because whatever we see or hear has an effect on us. .
There is some substance to her opinion, but she overblew it by the mastery of her tongue (her strength) and quite a bit of twisting of facts. Hip vs ch.... comparison is dishonest. Breast vs boobs has the same connotation though both are english words, although a huge difference when it comes to mannerism. I totally agree with the comment by iqbaliainful, in a very polite and "shusta" urdu
I respectfully disagree with your commentary.. what I understood by watching the film is that the problem was not Punjabi or the vulgar lyrics. The problem was vulgar lyrics related to sali, jeeja, devar etc. Did you ever listen a song in Urdu/Hindi translated like “tumhara kanwara bhai ne Mje dekh lia nahatay huay.. Mai nahati rahi aur tumhara kanwara bhai mazay leta raha” ? It is equally disrespectful and vulgar in Urdu.. having said that, the problem was never the language. It was lyrics itself
Lady it has got nothing to do with Urdu or Punjabi.. vulgarity is not limited to one language it's our moral values based on our religion. Who says Shakira,Lopez are clean or every song by Lata, Asha is clean or even Gulzar or Javed Akhtar are writing just literary content, I consider Kajra Rey by Gulzar as a very vulger song and the song you mentioned from Razia Sultan too was vulgar no doubt about it..... Popularity of anything does not clear it for being a good thing, secondly Chankila was not criticized by any Urdu speaking person but by his own fellow Punjabis
You are so right! So many people in my family who were born in Lahore don't like to speak Punjabi or don't even know how to! I love Punjabi and really learned it from my Father's family who were born in Kenya so was not effected by Urdu mania! Don't misunderstand me, I love urdu par Gughataan Punjabi ach ee saj deayaan nay!
I watched chumkila this sunday, I absolutely loved it and I didn’t find it vulgar…. Heheheh ❤… what was in it , these type of jokes or ground realities we all have in our lives…. Bs jo chizain jeslous karain un p baatain or some kind of labelling….
Greetings from Quetta Pakistan. Thank you for opening up this debate. Love to see the youth speaking up on these topics in Pakistan. More power to you Tamkenat. But please pardon me as i woud disagree with you on your overall comments.I believe Gulzar sb's song's lyrics which you translated in Punjabi and sang in such a way can be written in Punjabi by a master Punjabi poet with same subtlety as in Urdu while also keeping the sensuosness alive. Moreover, Gulzar sb is born in a Sikh family (orignal name Sampooran Singh Kalra) having Punjabi as his mother tongue, moreover, though he is known as Urdu poet but he is also a leading figure in India in translations of literary works from regional languages of India into other lingua franca and vice versa. So i believe if he writes something in Punjabi he would do it with the same asthetic brilliance. Therefore, in my opinion in this case its the combination of language with musical notes and music sensibility that separates vulgarity from art and aesthetics not the lens; absence of one of these can make a whole lot of difference. Furthermore, comparing love song lyrics with the lyrics of Chamkeela songs which points to incest cannot be justified. And no one in the world can say that "Hips dont lie.." song is not obscene. Regards
Whats the point of comparison between two languages. as far as the chmkila's public reppo concerned. It's related to personal preference & class like what background you come from . so ultimately you would drawn to your personal choice. Vulgar is vulgar be it chmkila or bharkela 😂😂😂😂
Vulgar stays vulgar BUT its true that our perceptions based on our biases tone up or down vulgarity.Some lyrics morally corrupt you subconciously,others do the direct harm
girl you're reviewing this movie with your own lenses of urduphobia...i don't understand punjabis being the majority and still playing victim 😒 i think you forgot that during PTV era, every province had their specific time slot which showcased their language and cultures..alot of punjabi, sindhi, baloch and pathan artists rose to fame so idk what are you blabbing about.. talking about vulgarity, all the item songs despite being in urdu are still seen as pretty vulgar whereas on the other hand there are alot of punjabi songs with beautiful lyrics that are picturized very well too... last thing, you can't mold the story of that Indian singer's life into your ethnocentric notions... knowing well that things are pretty different in india like caste based discrimination and that's what happened with that singer and not what you're yapping...!
Jo baat hai. Hum sab ko azeeyat mein rehne ki adat hai, even if we enjoy something (say in private, say a not-so-clean stand up for example), we get suspicious of our own ideas of fun and fail to admit we like something infront of other people, to safeguard our own sense of self. Everything is subjective at the end, and art is for specific consumption. If you dont like it, dont consume it. Move on.
I agree with some extent when it comes to Punjabi it seems more open but still lyrics seem vulgar even in English songs , there r many English songs whivh I could never listen bcoz of openly mention body parts or sth like tht..
It saddens me to hear both if my favourites persons Mohd Hanif and Tamkinat...Great writer and great artists to get down to serious Urdu bashing to prove defend promote or propagate Punjabi language . Sindhi, Saraiki, Balochi, Hindko, Pushto all have such deep beautiful language literature and music and these never need to win, listners or viewer's , over by demeaning or malighning urdu speakers performers etc. I'm afraid we will have to go back to the controversy, settle it and then return to resenting that Urdu was declared our national language it would get centre stage when there was only one channel. There is a huge and rich body of punjab work to delve into without rejecting or resenting urdu
Sonu Nigam had a different take on this. In one of his shows He had mentioned that slowing down a song and music can make the feel of the song really different. He had given example of lag ja gale and had jokingly said why is she asking for a hug? I tried to find the video but was unsuccessful. I agree with his point . Punjabi songs if not sad tend to have an up tempo that may affect our perception. That said I agree Naseebo lal ji is an asset of Pakistan. Keep up the good work beta. Love your take on things.
I am biggest fan the voice of nasebo lol never care about her lyrics her talent her simplicity her voice always appealable but as usual Pakistan wasted his assest.beyond of all nasebo proved herself by singing with abide parven❤ And tamknat you are also proved herself with full worth and speak boldly ur content also very innovative
Yes I agree with you that we listen concerts and videos WhatsApp comes from like Korea and Japanese and what's the culture is but we shouldn't like promoting it in our society like and it should be like a normalised in our society but it is not right thing to do and there something wrong valugirty happen you should take action
Totally disagree with you dear. It’s not the language difference. It’s the choice of words. You can’t translate and equalize or unequalize the lyrics. Just like people every language has its own personality. Just like not every garment looks good on everyone. Same way you have to use certain quality of lyrics in certain language to not sound ‘vulgar’. You can sound sensual in Punjabi without sounding vulgar like Chamkeela.
So I was apprehensive about watching this video as we have very different religious views but girl you are so right! And I stopped listening to songs as soon as I started understanding the lyrics even before I studied religion in depth. I am shocked at how vulgar urdu songs are played loudly in front of the kids and even in front of tehzeeb dar elders. Islamically it all is wrong but Pakistani double standards are just something else. Even though I am Urdu speaking I encourage my kids to learn Punjabi and Saraiki as we live in a saraiki speaking area.
Saadat Hasan Manto was charged for vulgar writings, in Lahore Bigh Court, for his short story Thanda Gost He said in the court in his defence, judge sahib you hv. never changed a butcher, who hangs a naked bakra with his all organs visible to men and women, but neither you ever objected to this obscenity nor the public at large has ever done so, secondly jusge sahib you must hv read my story after reading this, were your sexual instinct subsided or it sparked Reulr the case was dismissed. So it is the way you take the thingd
The way you took it out on Urdu speakers, shows you are as judgmental as those who judged Chamkeela! Sorry to say but you have to admit that Urdu has always been given preference because it is our National Language!! The whole world loved Nasibo-lal and Abda-Pervin together in "Tu Jhoom". That says it all!
"Urdu has always been given preference because it is our national language" is factually incorrect and very simplistic way to analysis a complex phenomenon
Make better word choices, all languages are beautiful. There is decent and no so decent word for everything, use esthetically nice sounding words. Not a big deal. Audience is there for every level of understanding. Any nice tune can become a hit. Music is so much more, labelling will not do justice.
Thank you Tamkenat for exposing our collective elitism with sharpness, clarity and above all simplicity / totally resonate with every word you said - well done girl! 👏👏👏
Agree , naseebo lal and madam k kuch ganay( punjabi again ) .... rooh afza hain 😊😅😅 nayray a zalma way and nurgis dance i dont think shakira has any comparison with her. Thing is our punjabi cinema has no real training, and resources yet they can beat them or atleast give us entertainment
We all have different conditioning and definitions of vulgarity but the ultimate standard is just quran and we should keep it straight no matter what. Roaming around all we will be left with no standard. So all romantic songs are vulger whether hindi, english or punjabi because of lyrics and we should keep it that simple. So same goes for the dance
Aisa to nai hai ke Urdu was considered an elitists language. Punjabi bhi badi pyari or sweet zaban hai. The differenece is just choosing the right wording in any language. A clear distinction is Old Punjabi movies, Poorani Maula Jutt ke time ki nai, Poorai Heer Ranjha ke time ki. Badi pyari or saaf suthri zaban boli jaati thi...or un filmon ke gaanon main badan patake marne wali shairi nai hoti thi. Woh Shikar Dopahar Pipli de Thale, Wanjhalii walariya, Tainun saamne bitha ke sharman, wale gaane the, beshumar pyare gane, jin ke aaj kal remix kerke baida gharaq ho raha hai.. Isi tarah Urdu main bhi bade wahayat lafz mojood hain, Farq istemal kerne ka hai. Main Punjabi hun and I did not like this example of Punjabi language or style suddenly turning something sweet into vulgurity, its the words chosen to express. Gulzar Sb bhii Deene ke Punjabi hain, and I think he would also not like this example.
You are right to some extent but not completely. Your point of view is valid only in case of sensuality but what about lyrics reated to extral marital affairs specially related to mehram relations? Promoting them or normalizing them in so gs of any language would be abd should be considered vulgar. And thn there is a thing called "subtlety. The more subtle any sexual/sensual content the more acceptable it is.
Aap ny theek kaha hum ny lenses lagy huy Hain or har Muslim ko lagana chahy.or is lense sy mujy Shakira b vulgar Nazar aa Rahi he or nargis b.or Jahan tak BAAT he panjabi zaban ki to panjabi mein b mohazzab alfaz Hain .or Urdu mein vulgar .BAAT to istmal karny ki he .
I think u got a new content idea that is translating songs into punjabi, by the way can't we choose better decent words in punjabi those won't sound vulger. another point is that when some text is translated to other languange, it is consider that the not just words are translated but also the frame of mind or spirit (rather the mood) in the text remains the same. so its not just the words but also state of mind. Being a punjabi I really feel disapointed that why in punjabi language, the humor or fun comes in vulgarity? don't we have good decent words in punjabi? are u not presenting punjabi language as bad or ill-mannered language .
You are right it all depends on how a person sees something. It all makes sense. We degraded our punjabi. 😒 I have a medical related question dr. Can i ask you?
Punjabi vulgar song ko sirf punjabi hi vulgar kehte kyun wo punjabi samjate hai.song vulgar hote hai tabhi vulgar kahte hai.dosri language walo ko to samj hi nahi ati.
Vulgar vulgar hota hai chahe wo urdu ho ya punjabi, chahe woh punjabi actor ho ya shakira/beyonce ya rihanna.
Bilkul sahi kaha hei aap ne. Pehle tou filmi ganay bhee gharoon mei zyada nahi sunney dete the.ab sab maaf hei
Exactly 💯
Kya Urdu kya Punjabi Jo wahyiat hai wo hai .phir wo Urdu me ho ya Punjabi me.
So correct.
Yes my view. Lets translate Naseebo lal's vulgar songs in Urdu they will remain vulgar !
True 💯
One thing for sure, Chamila was not murdered for singing vulgar songs, it was because he had become tooooo popular, threat to other singers. They felt insecure 😮. 😮😮. Tamkanat's review is otherwise quite valid
As sushant singh kild buy some bollywood dons
بیہودہ بیہودہ ہی ہوتا ہے، چاہے اُردو میں ہو، پنجابی میں ہو، انگریزی میں ہو۔۔۔ ہر زبان میں جو vulgarity پھیلائی ہوئی ہے، سب کی مخالفت کرنی چاہیے۔۔۔ لوگوں کا ایسے گانوں اور فلموں سے پیار اُن کے لیے صحیح نہیں ہے اور اس بات کو وہ کبھی نہیں سمجھیں گے۔
Dear vulgarity her haal me valgarity h
Urdu ho Punjabi ho ya angarezi ho
Plzzzzzz
Confuse mut kren
Aur justify b mut kren bay hayaai ko....
3:47 Dance chahay Shakira ya Beyonce karay ya Nargis karay, behuda hoga to behuda lagay ga... Simple as that!
You are absolutely right.Wo kehty hen na k dho b dia aur sukha b dia asliyat dikha kr sb ki. 😂
Aur jahan tk rahi bat,western dance moves ar Nergis dance moves ki,to ye difference hum chah kr b khatam nhi kr skty.. han koshish ki ja skti hy..q k heer ranjha sb ny dekhi,sb ny pasand ki..per apny gher ki lerki heer bannay lagay to ghairat jag jati hy..sirf isliay k heer kisi ki beeti the aur uska tamasha enjoy kia ja skta tha??? Sad but harsh reality of our society
😢😢😢
Yaar yeh tum log itna sach bolnay.lagay hu our culture isn't used to it.
لوگوں کے منہ کڑوے ہو رہے ہیں۔۔۔listening to so much truth in one go....😊😊😊...keep it up .
And yes there is vulgarity n people have the right to call something vulgar. If lyrics of a song are sexist, promotes cheating n extra marital affairs, murder, child abuse, violence, terror amd so on it is vulgar. It should be labelled as vulgar. A rap song can be vulgar, a folk song can be vulgar, a pop song can be vulgar, a hindi song, english song, arabic song or bengali song can be vulgar. Beyonce can be vulgar and mahira khan can be vulgar. Class or status does'nt decide vulgarity. What decides vulgarity is the content of the song, film or dance. Making obscene sexual gestures and making others and children around you uncomfortable is vulgar. Ab chahe woh gestures koi american kare ya koi indian , african, pakistani ya japanese.
Well said
Vulgar would be vulgar if we talk about it or not, if it would be done by Muslims or non Muslims,
but our industry has responsibility to show some decent dramas movies songs etc
this wasn't her topic............ wo double standards ki baat kr rahi hai bro (but yeah, u r right)
الفاظ کا چناؤ اور ادائیگی کا اسلوب ایک واضح فرق لاتا ہے. ایک ہی بات الفاظ کے فرق سے بہت بدل جاتی ہے. مثال کے طور پر "کھانا تناول فرمائیں"، "کھانا کھائیں"، "ٹھونس لو کھانا"...
Totally agree “tum gandy nahi ho, tum ghareeb ho.”
Yar ye takay takay k liberals a gaye hain kahan kahan se. Madam ap k opinions ap ko Mubarak hoon
NASEEBO LAAL S VOICE IS AMAZING 🤩💜 YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT 👍🥰 I AGREE 💯 WITH YOU 🏵️YOU EXPLAIN VERY HONEST 💞 KEEP IT UP👏👏❤️🤍💙(09:05:2024)
ap ny bht sy zawaye mix up krdye, m sirf ye kehna chahnga k behouda fiqra , behouda he hota hy , chahy english m ho ya urdu ya ksi ar zaban m , hn pakistan m hmary zehno m ye daal dya gya hy k punjabi zaban m tmeez ar shaistgi ne , eastern punjabi sunyen , wo baat krty hye bhe itny he muhazab lgty hen jesy hum urdu bolty hye shyd uss sy bhe zyda
I don't know what;s wrong with you! Logically speaking, any language is sweet as long as it's spoken SOFTLY. Urdu is usually spoken softly, plus persian words make it even smoother. Punjabi is sweet too. But only when it's not too LOUD. So, the language is not the problem. The way it's spoken is the problem.
I'm from Punjab, India. Your explanation is so intelligently put that hopefully people can understand this. My favorite singers are Amarjot, Noor Jehan, Naseebo, Reshma, Asha Bhosle , Sunidhi Chauhan... because that's MY PREFERENCE I hate these "soft docile teekhi awaaz".
Music is such a personal thing and yet we judge people on it.
Also just in addition Chamkila was daring but imagine the fearlessness of Amarjot for singing these lyrics I admire her way more than Chamkila.
Beautifully explained... Love Punjabi language ... Jindagi beet gaye sekhne me.
What you have said might be right , I can not comment on it as I am not a Punjabi speaker... So I hv not experienced it ... But but but vulger is vulger in any language... Ziada tar gany gandy aur vulger hoty hain. Inka maqsad he yhi Hy. ( Behes sy phly thori history aur research krlijay ga) Ab wo Shakira ho naseebo ya lata whatever. ..
اسی لئے اردو کا جنازہ ہی نکال دیا ہے!
I'm sorry I don't really agree with you. Vulgarity is vulgarity,it doesn't matter what language it's portrait in.
یہ کس نے کہہ دیا کہ اردو میں بیہودہ نہیں لگتا؟ ہم ایسے گانے سنتے ہی نہیں جس میں بیہودگی ہو. شاکیرہ نرگس دونوں کو نہیں دیکھتے
Hum chonkri nae martay thay... Because that is uncivilized. 😂😂😂 This is also on point. 😊
Musarrat Nazir was also a punjabi singer but her songs were classics. Where does Naseebo lal stand judge for yourself.
Sorry don't agree with you on this, i actually went and browsed some of his songs ...those things are beyond vulgur...downright incest , bahu, bhabi no one is spared... that content would be cringe no matter what the language
Amazing 👏. You are always my favorite 😍.
Perfect explanation 👌.
I find all of these songs vulgar. Even if they are in English, punjabi and urdu. However, I do agree with you. Punjabi and urdu stereotyping is real!!
how will you translate in Urdu the naseebo famous song... jadun sonwan mahi de nere honwan.. manji de wich dang pherda.... please translate in urdu (manji de wich dang pherda) 😜
Jiya Jale from Dil Se.. is a narration of the nuptial night aka SUHAAG RAAT with lyrics by Gulzar Sb, composed by AR Rehman and vocals of Lata Mangeshkar Jee. If we also consider the way it was filmed it can easily be considered as something very obscene yet most of us love it.
Madam Noor Jahan gave us Mujhse pehli si mohabat and she also gave us Mein Amb Choopan Lyi Gyi.
A singer sings what the audience likes. If we love Kosa kosa dudhh that's our choice and not Naseebo's. If she wont sing it, someone else will.
Killing a singer only shows that a society is too toxic and hates acknowledging the fact that they have a sick mindset which they love having yet cannot accept it and end up blaming the singer for it.
As for Punjabi vs Urdu, both are languages with good and bad words, the bottomline remains on the way these languages are used.
Damagh saaf, sab saaf.
I disagree not completely but partially. His songs were not only considered vulgar because of the language (Punjabi) or his social status. Part of it was because he sang about sensuality between relationships that went against societal norms. It’s easy to digest the same lyrics about two lovers than it is about, for example, bhabi-devar etc. I have no idea if that got him killed, but it’s not only about the “lens” you keep mentioning. It was more than that.
😂😂😂😂👍👍👍👏👏👏بہت اچھے
ڈاکٹر صاب۔ اینا غصہ۔ اوئے ہوئے
اچھا مٹی پاؤ۔ ایویں شوخی لوگاں تے
تسی۔ آمنہ حیدر نال کدوں نظر آؤ گے سوال جواب کردے ھوئے۔
واللہ بڑا چنگا لگایا سی۔ بلکہ ساڈی خواہش ہیگی کہ تسی پرمانینٹ انہاں دے نال گلاں باراں دا سیشن کرو۔
BTW both songs and dances are vulgar....totally vulgarity.....Allah pak hidayat ata fermay Ameen
رضیہ سلطانہ مووی کا، جلتا ہے بدن، گانے کی دھن اتنی خوبصورت ہے لیکن اشعار اتنے بے حجابانہ ہیں کہ دوبارہ سے سننا چاہ کر بھی انسان سن نہ پائے۔
Lyrics
بھی اثر انداز ہو کر انسان کی صحیح اور غلط کی پہچان ختم کر دیتے ہیں اور دھن بھی طبیعت میں ہیجان پیدا کر دیتی ہے۔ ایسی موسیقی سن کر انسان غلط کاموں کے لئے اپنے من میں جواز پیدا کر لیتا ہے
کوئی کجھ وی بولے
تو آپنی بولی بول
بول پنجابی بول
پنجابیا
بول پنجابی بول
That’s so true when I was a kid Punjabi was forbidden because it was considered illiterate only urdu
Best explanation ever. Thanks aloot habibti❤
Punjab's aversion to their mother-tongue from the 50s through to 90s was part of the "state" tacit design to promote Urdu at the expense of regional languages. Upward social mobility and financial well-being, unfortunately, became associated with people shunning their language and heritage. In our Sindhi household, the reverse is true. We frown upon people not speaking their mother-tongue at home. Punjabi youth, the sons & daughters of this great province have reclaimed the language with pride and I am so proud to see this phenomenon unfold. Love your content and wish you the best.
جو چیز آپ فیملی کے ساتھ دیکھ نہیں سکتے سن نہیں سکتے بول نہیں سکتے۔وہ غلط ہے ۔اسے آپ تنہائی میں سنیں۔دیکھیں۔یا بولیں۔وہ گناہ کے زمرے میں آتی ہے ۔اب اسے کسی بھی زبان میں کنورٹ کر لیں۔یا کوئی بھی گا رہا ہو۔یا اہکٹ کر رہا ہو۔ولگر ہی ہے۔
Have recently found you, Proud of you speak punjabi and even more so for talking about cloud of darkness over it by the powers in Pak to take away punjabi nations pride and with it our dignity. Thank you
Rubbish
Chamkila ka kisi nien naam nhi suna tha
Ager itna popular tha to 80s mien bhi concerts to hoty thay
To yeh bahir q gata tha istrah
This is another classist take. Just because you had not heard of him doesn’t make him any less of a star. You can literally search ‘the highest selling punjabi artist’ and see if he was popular or not. Just because someone did not perform in concert like settings in cities doesn’t mean that he wasn’t famous. He performed internationally and was a massive success of his time.
Who told you that punjabi language is low the case is not of language but of the content and high pitch of voice and the way it is spoken by some people.Other wise punjabi is understandable language more than other regional languages
میرے ساتھ ایک واقعہ ہوا اردو اور پنجابی کو لے کر۔ لاہور نیو ہسپتال میں میرا دوست حادثہ ہونے کی وجہ سے وہاں داخل تھا۔ میں نے لیڈیز ڈاکٹر سے پنجابی میں بات کی انہوں نے مجھے کہا تم مجھ سے بدتمیزی سے بات کر رہے ہو۔ اور وہی بات میرے دوست نے اردو میں کی تو وہ آرام سے سن رہی تھی پھر میرے دوست نے مجھے بتایا کہ یہ پنجابی بولنے والوں کو بے وقوف اور بدتمیز سمجھتی ہیں ۔
Very Well explained! ❤
Vulgarity is vulgarity in both urdu & punjabi so dnt normalise this agenda
My dear I agree with all of the time but not on this one
Vulgarity in any language is vulgarity khalaas
Well I love naseebo lal and I like Lata as well
I don’t watch shakira or Beyoncé for me they are too vulgar
I think the best jokes are in Punjabi which will loose its humour if translated in Urdu
Teri hikk te malaya'n aaya'n
Bapu sada gum ho gya teri maa di talashi leni
Menu shiker dopehray naodi nu jeth takda
Kuri pataka steering nu hath paondi
Jeeja lak minr
Jeeja ve tenu chaska pe gya sali da, seenay lag ja saliye sadu tu akh bcha ke ni
Translate above songs to any language and let's see if they are vulgar or not. Chamkila objectified women in most of his songs. It's not about romanticism.
Also, there are two types of language, even Punjabi has two types "Litrature and Street language". You can compare Shiv Kumar Batalvi and Chamkila although it's injustice to Shiv, but to get the idea.
Shiv Kumar Batalvi was a famous Punjabi poet and wrote in Loona "Ik chhaati (Breast) meri haad (4th month of Desi Year) tapanda dooji tabda jaith (3rd month of Desi Year), ni mai agg turi perdes ni sayyo mai agg turi perdes (Loona said this when entering her doli)" this stuff is not vulgar but emotional and has a deep meaning.
Please stop fooling Punjabi people who never even had a chance to read a single word of Punjabi Literature, are even unaware that it actually exists.
Filth is filth
No matter what the language is
What the culture is and what the medium is
Vulgarity is vulgarity
پنجابی شاعری بھی بہت اچھی ہوتی ہے۔ مثال کے طور پر :
تیری میری پاک محبت
وچ نہ پایا خاک محبت
بیہودگی بیہودگی ہوتی ہے چاہے وہ اردو میں ہو یا پنجابی یا انگلش میں۔
Hmmm for me Lata or Gulzar's lyrics are vulgar too. And Naseebo Lal before she was not popular used to sing v vulgar songs which if translated into Urdu were equally vulgar.
Madam,here u show ur absolute jahalut.
No logic at all....ofcourse selection of words matter.
Sometimes when we are mindlessly listening to a song, without knowing the lyrics or sometimes when we can't follow the lyrics of a song and it feels to be good and then we happen to read its lyrics and we are like WHAT was I listening to.
Point being just because something has a soothing effect or said in a melodious way, doesn't mean it is necessarily good.
We need to be mindful of what we are listening to and if we get to know it has bad lyrics we shouldn't listen to it anymore. Because whatever we see or hear has an effect on us. .
Only Tamkenat can do this.......
She is epic
I also realized if you translate the songs that look vulgar. But in punjabi they are just naughty
Punjabi is very sweet language but what is vulgar is vulgar whether it’s in English, Urdu or Punjabi .
🤣🤣 u just nailed it😄 what an explanation 👏
There is some substance to her opinion, but she overblew it by the mastery of her tongue (her strength) and quite a bit of twisting of facts. Hip vs ch.... comparison is dishonest. Breast vs boobs has the same connotation though both are english words, although a huge difference when it comes to mannerism. I totally agree with the comment by iqbaliainful, in a very polite and "shusta" urdu
I respectfully disagree with your commentary.. what I understood by watching the film is that the problem was not Punjabi or the vulgar lyrics. The problem was vulgar lyrics related to sali, jeeja, devar etc. Did you ever listen a song in Urdu/Hindi translated like “tumhara kanwara bhai ne Mje dekh lia nahatay huay.. Mai nahati rahi aur tumhara kanwara bhai mazay leta raha” ? It is equally disrespectful and vulgar in Urdu..
having said that, the problem was never the language. It was lyrics itself
Lady it has got nothing to do with Urdu or Punjabi.. vulgarity is not limited to one language it's our moral values based on our religion. Who says Shakira,Lopez are clean or every song by Lata, Asha is clean or even Gulzar or Javed Akhtar are writing just literary content, I consider Kajra Rey by Gulzar as a very vulger song and the song you mentioned from Razia Sultan too was vulgar no doubt about it..... Popularity of anything does not clear it for being a good thing, secondly Chankila was not criticized by any Urdu speaking person but by his own fellow Punjabis
Or Noor jhan’s song
گورا گورا بدن مٻرا کسٻا ھوٻا
جٻون رٻشم اے رٻشم چے ڀھسٻا ھوٻا
بیہودگی چاہے کوئی بھی کرے یا کسی بھی زبان میں ہو بیہودگی ہی ہوتی ہے...
You are so right! So many people in my family who were born in Lahore don't like to speak Punjabi or don't even know how to! I love Punjabi and really learned it from my Father's family who were born in Kenya so was not effected by Urdu mania! Don't misunderstand me, I love urdu par Gughataan Punjabi ach ee saj deayaan nay!
I watched chumkila this sunday, I absolutely loved it and I didn’t find it vulgar…. Heheheh ❤… what was in it , these type of jokes or ground realities we all have in our lives…. Bs jo chizain jeslous karain un p baatain or some kind of labelling….
Greetings from Quetta Pakistan.
Thank you for opening up this debate. Love to see the youth speaking up on these topics in Pakistan. More power to you Tamkenat.
But please pardon me as i woud disagree with you on your overall comments.I believe Gulzar sb's song's lyrics which you translated in Punjabi and sang in such a way can be written in Punjabi by a master Punjabi poet with same subtlety as in Urdu while also keeping the sensuosness alive.
Moreover, Gulzar sb is born in a Sikh family (orignal name Sampooran Singh Kalra) having Punjabi as his mother tongue, moreover, though he is known as Urdu poet but he is also a leading figure in India in translations of literary works from regional languages of India into other lingua franca and vice versa.
So i believe if he writes something in Punjabi he would do it with the same asthetic brilliance.
Therefore, in my opinion in this case its the combination of language with musical notes and music sensibility that separates vulgarity from art and aesthetics not the lens; absence of one of these can make a whole lot of difference.
Furthermore, comparing love song lyrics with the lyrics of Chamkeela songs which points to incest cannot be justified.
And no one in the world can say that "Hips dont lie.." song is not obscene. Regards
Whats the point of comparison between two languages. as far as the chmkila's public reppo concerned. It's related to personal preference & class like what background you come from . so ultimately you would drawn to your personal choice. Vulgar is vulgar be it chmkila or bharkela 😂😂😂😂
Vulgar stays vulgar BUT its true that our perceptions based on our biases tone up or down vulgarity.Some lyrics morally corrupt you subconciously,others do the direct harm
girl you're reviewing this movie with your own lenses of urduphobia...i don't understand punjabis being the majority and still playing victim 😒
i think you forgot that during PTV era, every province had their specific time slot which showcased their language and cultures..alot of punjabi, sindhi, baloch and pathan artists rose to fame so idk what are you blabbing about..
talking about vulgarity, all the item songs despite being in urdu are still seen as pretty vulgar whereas on the other hand there are alot of punjabi songs with beautiful lyrics that are picturized very well too...
last thing, you can't mold the story of that Indian singer's life into your ethnocentric notions... knowing well that things are pretty different in india like caste based discrimination and that's what happened with that singer and not what you're yapping...!
Jo baat hai. Hum sab ko azeeyat mein rehne ki adat hai, even if we enjoy something (say in private, say a not-so-clean stand up for example), we get suspicious of our own ideas of fun and fail to admit we like something infront of other people, to safeguard our own sense of self. Everything is subjective at the end, and art is for specific consumption. If you dont like it, dont consume it. Move on.
I agree with some extent when it comes to Punjabi it seems more open but still lyrics seem vulgar even in English songs , there r many English songs whivh I could never listen bcoz of openly mention body parts or sth like tht..
It saddens me to hear both if my favourites persons Mohd Hanif and Tamkinat...Great writer and great artists to get down to serious Urdu bashing to prove defend promote or propagate Punjabi language .
Sindhi, Saraiki, Balochi, Hindko, Pushto all have such deep beautiful language literature and music and these never need to win, listners or viewer's , over by demeaning or malighning urdu speakers performers etc.
I'm afraid we will have to go back to the controversy, settle it and then return to resenting that Urdu was declared our national language it would get centre stage when there was only one channel.
There is a huge and rich body of punjab work to delve into without rejecting or resenting urdu
Sonu Nigam had a different take on this. In one of his shows He had mentioned that slowing down a song and music can make the feel of the song really different. He had given example of lag ja gale and had jokingly said why is she asking for a hug? I tried to find the video but was unsuccessful. I agree with his point . Punjabi songs if not sad tend to have an up tempo that may affect our perception. That said I agree Naseebo lal ji is an asset of Pakistan. Keep up the good work beta. Love your take on things.
I am biggest fan the voice of nasebo lol never care about her lyrics her talent her simplicity her voice always appealable but as usual Pakistan wasted his assest.beyond of all nasebo proved herself by singing with abide parven❤
And tamknat you are also proved herself with full worth and speak boldly ur content also very innovative
Yes I agree with you that we listen concerts and videos WhatsApp comes from like Korea and Japanese and what's the culture is but we shouldn't like promoting it in our society like and it should be like a normalised in our society but it is not right thing to do and there something wrong valugirty happen you should take action
Totally disagree with you dear. It’s not the language difference. It’s the choice of words. You can’t translate and equalize or unequalize the lyrics. Just like people every language has its own personality. Just like not every garment looks good on everyone. Same way you have to use certain quality of lyrics in certain language to not sound ‘vulgar’. You can sound sensual in Punjabi without sounding vulgar like Chamkeela.
Panjabi literature Naam Hai Sufiana kalam Aur soch ka Aur wo buhaat khubsurat Aur meaningful Hai. Meanings soch zarori hai.
I like u.u r right but punjabi is very sweet language n pujabis r very livly n lovly people.plzzzz dont spread hate.
damn.. i thought naseebo was a vegeterian?.. loll.
Haha tmkint tera plllllla ovy 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
So I was apprehensive about watching this video as we have very different religious views but girl you are so right! And I stopped listening to songs as soon as I started understanding the lyrics even before I studied religion in depth. I am shocked at how vulgar urdu songs are played loudly in front of the kids and even in front of tehzeeb dar elders. Islamically it all is wrong but Pakistani double standards are just something else.
Even though I am Urdu speaking I encourage my kids to learn Punjabi and Saraiki as we live in a saraiki speaking area.
Saadat Hasan Manto was charged for vulgar writings, in Lahore Bigh Court, for his short story Thanda Gost
He said in the court in his defence, judge sahib you hv. never changed a butcher, who hangs a naked bakra with his all organs visible to men and women, but neither you ever objected to this obscenity nor the public at large has ever done so, secondly jusge sahib you must hv read my story after reading this, were your sexual instinct subsided or it sparked
Reulr the case was dismissed.
So it is the way you take the thingd
No its not the matter of urdu or Punjabi. U can have the vulgarity in the fiction of Sa'aadat Hassan Minto and Asmat Chughtai as well
یہ کچھ زیادہ ہی ہو گیا۔۔۔۔
The way you took it out on Urdu speakers, shows you are as judgmental as those who judged Chamkeela! Sorry to say but you have to admit that Urdu has always been given preference because it is our National Language!! The whole world loved Nasibo-lal and Abda-Pervin together in "Tu Jhoom". That says it all!
"Urdu has always been given preference because it is our national language" is factually incorrect and very simplistic way to analysis a complex phenomenon
Make better word choices, all languages are beautiful. There is decent and no so decent word for everything, use esthetically nice sounding words. Not a big deal. Audience is there for every level of understanding. Any nice tune can become a hit. Music is so much more, labelling will not do justice.
Thank you Tamkenat for exposing our collective elitism with sharpness, clarity and above all simplicity / totally resonate with every word you said - well done girl! 👏👏👏
Agree , naseebo lal and madam k kuch ganay( punjabi again ) .... rooh afza hain 😊😅😅 nayray a zalma way and nurgis dance i dont think shakira has any comparison with her. Thing is our punjabi cinema has no real training, and resources yet they can beat them or atleast give us entertainment
Have u heard all his songs..... review ton de rahe ho!?😊
We all have different conditioning and definitions of vulgarity but the ultimate standard is just quran and we should keep it straight no matter what. Roaming around all we will be left with no standard. So all romantic songs are vulger whether hindi, english or punjabi because of lyrics and we should keep it that simple. So same goes for the dance
Aisa to nai hai ke Urdu was considered an elitists language. Punjabi bhi badi pyari or sweet zaban hai. The differenece is just choosing the right wording in any language. A clear distinction is Old Punjabi movies, Poorani Maula Jutt ke time ki nai, Poorai Heer Ranjha ke time ki. Badi pyari or saaf suthri zaban boli jaati thi...or un filmon ke gaanon main badan patake marne wali shairi nai hoti thi. Woh Shikar Dopahar Pipli de Thale, Wanjhalii walariya, Tainun saamne bitha ke sharman, wale gaane the, beshumar pyare gane, jin ke aaj kal remix kerke baida gharaq ho raha hai.. Isi tarah Urdu main bhi bade wahayat lafz mojood hain, Farq istemal kerne ka hai.
Main Punjabi hun and I did not like this example of Punjabi language or style suddenly turning something sweet into vulgurity, its the words chosen to express. Gulzar Sb bhii Deene ke Punjabi hain, and I think he would also not like this example.
Very intelligently put Tamkenat, and I agree with what u said.
You are right to some extent but not completely. Your point of view is valid only in case of sensuality but what about lyrics reated to extral marital affairs specially related to mehram relations? Promoting them or normalizing them in so gs of any language would be abd should be considered vulgar. And thn there is a thing called "subtlety. The more subtle any sexual/sensual content the more acceptable it is.
BIBI ,,,,,,,,RAB TENU SLAMT REKHY,,,
Aap ny theek kaha hum ny lenses lagy huy Hain or har Muslim ko lagana chahy.or is lense sy mujy Shakira b vulgar Nazar aa Rahi he or nargis b.or Jahan tak BAAT he panjabi zaban ki to panjabi mein b mohazzab alfaz Hain .or Urdu mein vulgar .BAAT to istmal karny ki he .
I'm so sorry par mai khud punjab I hun n I'm proud of it punjabi proud them vulgarity vulgarity hoti u r wrong totally
Totally disagree
Vulgur would be vulgar no matter what language one uses.
There is a clear difference between sensuality and vulgarity.
I think u got a new content idea that is translating songs into punjabi, by the way can't we choose better decent words in punjabi those won't sound vulger. another point is that when some text is translated to other languange, it is consider that the not just words are translated but also the frame of mind or spirit (rather the mood) in the text remains the same. so its not just the words but also state of mind.
Being a punjabi I really feel disapointed that why in punjabi language, the humor or fun comes in vulgarity? don't we have good decent words in punjabi? are u not presenting punjabi language as bad or ill-mannered language .
You are right it all depends on how a person sees something. It all makes sense. We degraded our punjabi. 😒
I have a medical related question dr. Can i ask you?
Punjabi vulgar song ko sirf punjabi hi vulgar kehte kyun wo punjabi samjate hai.song vulgar hote hai tabhi vulgar kahte hai.dosri language walo ko to samj hi nahi ati.
Just love the way you promote your mother tongue. Keep up the good work 👍
Nerhy aa song from churiyaan b aik bari example hai
Stop talking about like that remember we are Muslims our deen IS Islam. Urda or pujabi these kind of songs are not for us .