Intel Core Ultra: A Deep Dive

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
  • This week Intel gave lots more detail about its upcoming Core Ultra (aka Meteor Lake) processors. In this brain dump, I cover most of that information :)
    [0:00] Intro
    [01:00] What is Meteor Lake?
    [03:45] CPU Tile in Intel 4: P-cores and E-cores
    [05:21] GPU Tile in TSMC N5: Xe-LPG
    [10:38] SoC Tile in TSMC N6: LPE-cores and NPU
    [21:20] IO Tile in TSMC N6: PCIe 5.0 and TB4
    [21:55] Questions I Gave Intel
    [22:25] Singulated Die Test and Known Good Die
    [23:58] Release Day: December 14th
    [25:29] Cat Tax
    -----------------------
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    -----------------------
    Welcome to the TechTechPotato (c) Dr. Ian Cutress
    Ramblings about things related to Technology from an analyst for More Than Moore
    #intel #meteorlake #foveros
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ความคิดเห็น • 278

  • @Wobbothe3rd
    @Wobbothe3rd 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +89

    ARC performance integrated on mobile is a BIG DEAL. Even if its just A380 performance, that would be a massive change for laptops.

    • @saricubra2867
      @saricubra2867 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +17

      It also shows how bad the discrete graphics market is.

    • @HuntaKiller91
      @HuntaKiller91 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      more like 1650 or even on par with radeon 780M,but im gonna see which one has lower power draw for laptops/handhelds

    • @julfy_god
      @julfy_god 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      amd already done that with their 7040 apus though

    • @tipoomaster
      @tipoomaster 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I want someone to make a Steam Deck/Ally competitor with it

  • @overthinkingtech
    @overthinkingtech 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +23

    I think there's a title in there with a meteor dinosaur pun. Something like "Intel's new meteor lake destroys their old chips like the dinosaurs they are." It's probably too wordy.

    • @wile123456
      @wile123456 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Or it could be negative because with the amount of delays for this and previous chips, by the time it's out, it's already as ancient as the dinosaurs

    • @aDifferentJT
      @aDifferentJT 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Meteor lake causes Raptor lake extinction

    • @j340_official
      @j340_official 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Meteor lake destroys monolithic DUV dinosaurs.

    • @patfre
      @patfre 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      The fact that meteorlake is supposedly gonna be using half the power of raptorlake while being the same performance makes this concept very believable. I would like to see AMD compare do this kind of efficiency

  • @VarkaTheDragon
    @VarkaTheDragon 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

    I think maybe you need more 30-minute green screen deadlines to adlib content like this - this was top notch! Great balance of off-the-cuff and detail focused, with all the right post-production fact checking done out of band to not mess with your flow! Keep it up!

  • @PEANUTGALLERY81
    @PEANUTGALLERY81 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Oh man, you could’ve done a meetup while at Malaysia. It’d be a banger of a time. We have plenty of hardware engineers here, and I’m sure there are many fans of the channel

  • @bobpritham2660
    @bobpritham2660 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +102

    I hope Intel EUV gets better over the time to compete with TSMC.

    • @__aceofspades
      @__aceofspades 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +23

      Intel and analysts are predicting that Intel 18A will surpass TSMC in 2024. As we've seen with the A17 pro TSMC N3 has been a bit of a dud.

    • @tringuyen7519
      @tringuyen7519 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@__aceofspadesIntel would need to finish the “Intel 3” process before claiming that its 18A process will surpass TSMC’s 3nm. Apple A17 on 3nm are shipping now!!!

    • @HDRPC
      @HDRPC 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +21

      Yield of Intel 4 is 50% better than TSMC N3B.
      Intel 4 has same density as TSMC N3B.
      Intel 4 has same performance as TSMC N3B.

    • @flashmozzg
      @flashmozzg 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

      @@HDRPC You need to compare with N3E though.

    • @porksandbean
      @porksandbean 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      Intel already got backside power working.

  • @tech8438
    @tech8438 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    Finally.. someone is taking a serious stab at power efficiency. lately things have had a trend of just *throw more power at it* for performance :/
    Just want a desktop CPU/GPU that are not 300+ watts :|

    • @C4rb0neum
      @C4rb0neum 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Credits for that go to Apple’s chips though.

    • @tech8438
      @tech8438 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Would never sing apples praise as a company though. @@C4rb0neum
      Good job to their engineers that are not sitting there working on ways to screw over repairability

    • @gregandark8571
      @gregandark8571 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      👍@@C4rb0neum

  • @danchan5620
    @danchan5620 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +19

    so many corrections edited in, Steve is coming for you!

    • @TechTechPotato
      @TechTechPotato  9 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

      ha! I only had the *rented* studio for 30-35 minutes left when I started recording.

    • @TechTechPotato
      @TechTechPotato  9 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

      So it would cost me $500 to reshoot.

    • @TechRIP
      @TechRIP 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@TechTechPotato Now THAT was funny.

  • @spuchoa
    @spuchoa 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    This was the best technical deep dive into Core Ultra (aka Meteor Lake) on TH-cam, great work Doctor Ian.

  • @defeqel6537
    @defeqel6537 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

    looks like Intel is getting interesting again

  • @TypeErrorDubs
    @TypeErrorDubs 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    The definitive Ian review of a new CPU/system? 🎉🎉

  • @esra_erimez
    @esra_erimez 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    It is my humble opinion that Pat Gelsinger will be the person to lead Intel back

    • @Sesarrbg
      @Sesarrbg 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      His salary certainly shows the hopes for that, I believe he was paid more in 2022 than Lisa Su, Jensen Huang and C. C. Wei combined 😃

    • @ChuckNorris-lf6vo
      @ChuckNorris-lf6vo 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@Sesarrbg Haha I wonder how they spend all that lol. Would be cool to know.

    • @tringuyen7519
      @tringuyen7519 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@ChuckNorris-lf6voLisa Su, Jensen Huang, & CC Wei are paid more in stock options. They’re compensated more when their companies do better. What’s up with Intel?

    • @ChuckNorris-lf6vo
      @ChuckNorris-lf6vo 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@tringuyen7519 So it's a "natural" model or imbalanced?

    • @Sesarrbg
      @Sesarrbg 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@tringuyen7519 the comparison includes bonuses and stock options and such. It's basically a rule of the stock market regulator to publish the true compensation. I looked it up on a site called simply wallst

  • @powerpower-rg7bk
    @powerpower-rg7bk 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +25

    13:30 This isn't about yields, rather there simply isn't a GPU die in the package from the sound of it. With the display controller on the SoC die, it may still be able to drive a display but without any sort of 3D acceleration (codecs are still on the SoC die so there could still be some acceleration there). This is an interesting cost/power saving move and curious how the end products will play out here.
    More interesting in terms of power consumption is if a system can boot with only the SoC + IO die in the package. This would be horrible for mobile/desktop usage but would be interesting in the embedded sector depending on the power consumption. I just haven't heard of anyone asking this, much less the answer.
    19:00 Curious if this NPU works in the same data formats as Intel's AMX extensions found on their larger cores. Similarly if the Xe graphics can leverage the same data structures. The advantage here would be that properly formatted data in memory could be processed by either the CPU with AMX, GPU or NPU. Needing to convert the data structures between styles takes time (latency) and additional power not spent on the raw execution of said data.
    The advanced binning techniques are what I was hoping to see. This should be a good leap for mobile users as one of the dimensions Intel bins for is raw power consumption. I do feel for the low end desktop users (with Lunar Lake since Meteor Lake not coming to desktop) that will be getting seemingly the worst of every metric with potentially some units disabled. On the flip side, this should improve the highend desktop a bit as it'll be easier to pair up known good dies that support high clocks. This also likely means the death of the KF line of SKUs at the high end. The phrase you get what you pay for will be in full play here.

    • @peanutnutter1
      @peanutnutter1 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Intel have now said that Meteor Lake is coming to desktop - PC World interview.

    • @powerpower-rg7bk
      @powerpower-rg7bk 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@peanutnutter1 Weird since they're also saying that it is a 2024 release which would overlap with Arrow Lake which is getting a desktop release as well. Perhaps they're doing some segmentation with Meteor Lake at the lowend and Arrow Lake for the highend desktop with a simultaneously release? The general rumors about Meteor Lake on desktop is that it would haven't been mostly a lateral move with higher IPC but lower clock. However Arrow Lake was to boost IPC and clocks higher making it a clear candidate for desktop.

    • @peanutnutter1
      @peanutnutter1 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@powerpower-rg7bk yeah, it doesn't make sense really and they'd need a new socket too.

    • @powerpower-rg7bk
      @powerpower-rg7bk 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@peanutnutter1 They do have a new socket planned, LGA 1851. Just everything using it was pushed back into 2024 for Arrow Lake's desktop debut. Before this flip flop, Meteor Lake was scheduled to use LGA 1851 in late 2023. So they have the infrastructure for the desktop ready, just things are now seemingly delayed.

  • @coltmarshmallow
    @coltmarshmallow 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +24

    The NPU is cool. I haven't looked at Intel's SDK for it but having delt with redhat and terraform dropping open source support this year and pivoting because of it, that's my only worry is they will turn around later on the attractiveness to work on.

  • @EthelbertCoyote
    @EthelbertCoyote 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Nice to see that Intel still does testing right with the per chip tests

  • @jeremyjedynak
    @jeremyjedynak 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Great video on the details of the new architecture!

  • @mrTeamanlol
    @mrTeamanlol 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    nice content, love the presentation style. 👍

  • @Pushing_Pixels
    @Pushing_Pixels 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Great video Ian. I love this kind of content.

  • @leandrodrace
    @leandrodrace 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    near future is looking good, thanks for sharing!

  • @jaymacpherson8167
    @jaymacpherson8167 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Holy tasty spuds! A Meteor Lake presentation with fine detail that is understandable. 🤙🏽

  • @zblurth855
    @zblurth855 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    whoa this is a cool architecture! thanks for the break down

  • @PEANUTGALLERY81
    @PEANUTGALLERY81 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Ok, about that singulated die sorting, the key idea there I believe is that it ensures only perfectly good dies gets soldered onto the interposer, or that correctly binned dies gets soldered together. After a tile goes on an interposer, that process can’t be reversed. Better testing ensures Intel does join a tile where one memory channel is crippled with a compute tile that can hit really high clocks.

    • @TechTechPotato
      @TechTechPotato  9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Yup, KGD gets hardware when it's stacked

  • @cpaulis
    @cpaulis 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    best summary of the Meteor Lake that I have seen so far...

  • @POSTONBEATS
    @POSTONBEATS 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    thanks man i got a better understanding of meteor lake chips

  • @PeterDrage
    @PeterDrage 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Awesome video, I think Meteor Lake when it comes to Desktop will be the point I finally update my desktop. I just wish it offered more PCIe lanes that I will lose coming from x299.

    • @denverbasshead
      @denverbasshead 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      It's not coming to desktop though.

  • @linamishima
    @linamishima 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Excellent video, thank you! I’ve been hesitant about hybrid core designs, but it looks like going all-in properly and supporting various use cases within the design might just make them sing. Of course, the real challenge is how operating systems interact with them - a possible interview and consultancy idea is to talk with the scheduler engineers at MS or within the Linux kernel community 🤔 The other big takeaway for me as an engineer was the testing setups, I suspect this is going to be a big area of growth within the industry as this shifts left a lot of challenges - will be interesting to see how this affects working with external fabs, will the benefits of trust in product promote such arrangements, or will the external fabs take issue with heavy shift-lefting and come up against resistance when ultimately needing to shift all the way left back to the designers?

  • @martigrey5872
    @martigrey5872 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Base die is 22nm for the active one right? The one with L4

  • @XDSDDLord
    @XDSDDLord 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I know this isn't a constructive comment, but damn is it satisfying seeing all of these technologies we've been hearing about for so long, all coming together like this.

  • @shaunlunney7551
    @shaunlunney7551 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    was waiting for your perspective on it! Lets see intel in the EUV space, looking forward to the Intel TSMC battles ahead!

    • @fluphybunny930
      @fluphybunny930 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      His perspective is to parrot the specs.

    • @shaunlunney7551
      @shaunlunney7551 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@fluphybunny930 ...And give us his perspective on them. Ian's been around a long time and I value his insight into performance and potential mis-steps in a design.

  • @Kiyuja
    @Kiyuja 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    This is so interesting. I wouldnt buy a new CPU right now as I JUST upgraded but this is cool. Rumors say Intel will go really wild next gen and I'm waiting to see what the mad scientists have cooked up again (huge IPC gain, removal of HT, massive efficiency but also reduction in clocks??)

    • @MaxIronsThird
      @MaxIronsThird 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake and Panther Lake will be crazy, and they're all on the same LGA1851 socket.

    • @Kiyuja
      @Kiyuja 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@MaxIronsThird let me tell ya, PGA like on my AM4 sucks. I believe my old I7 2600 was PGA and holy hell am I happy that this arrangement is dead by now. I personally just hope Intel figured something out other thab just throwing more cores at the problem. This is what kinda breaks AMDs neck right now. V Cache is nice for gaming and I hope Intel got something similar coming. Removing of HT can be risky but worth a lot. We sacrificed a lot of power to get HT in the first place. Hope Intel doesnt fall for the more cores more better trap...

    • @MaxIronsThird
      @MaxIronsThird 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@KiyujaPanther Lake is supposed to introduce Rentable Units, as a substitute tp HT.

  • @user-iq334
    @user-iq334 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The only tech/hardware channel that the guy knows about what he's talking.

  • @TheObiwantoby
    @TheObiwantoby 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Waiting to see if function by function, power storage basis if this can get close to the M1 M2 line. I am not convinced this thread director works all too well. All day battery life without trying would be ideal.

  • @ViktorFerenczi
    @ViktorFerenczi 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    What will be the DDR5 memory bandwidth? That will be the limiting factor while using the NPU, because of streaming in the quantized weights of large models from RAM. Cache sizes? Will the CPU cache be shared with the NPU?

  • @bdbgh
    @bdbgh 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Pretty surprised that a new process node is being developed in Malaysia,or is it just the assembly? also, hope you had a good time visiting Malaysia.

  • @davidgunther8428
    @davidgunther8428 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I wonder if the SoC tile's media decoders and display engines are copied directly from ARC. They're on the same 6N process, correct?

  • @cacheman
    @cacheman 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    So I assume these won't have AVX-512? Does that mean that we'll have to wait for AVX10.2 to be ready for client chips to jump back on?

  • @shmookins
    @shmookins 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Crazy how fast and smart these machines are getting that the chip can 'sleep' between keystrokes while typing and between 16 frames of video while playing a video.
    And I still can't get over how shocking the "5 nodes in 4 years" statement is. What a gangster move.
    I am very excited to see what happens in the Angstrom era with CPUs, GPUs and the new hardware accelerators for AI made available in these coming chips.

    • @user-sj3qz9yo3f
      @user-sj3qz9yo3f 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Was very skeptical too on the '5n/4y' map, but they delivered 7 and 4 on time so it's much more credible now. To me, it's ASML and Intel worked together somewhat on the maturity of EUV so Intel can get the EUVs to work on its new nodes much quicker. The meteor lake project is massively complex, so I'd say Intel is on good track in its coming back fight.

  • @vasudevmenon2496
    @vasudevmenon2496 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Are you using a pre release laptop from Asus or MSI? Hoping Intel fabs turns out to be great and would love to see competition between tsmc, Samsung, global foundries, Intel and IBM

  • @Vladek16
    @Vladek16 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    are they going to use that tile design in desktop cpu too ?
    I wonder what an hypothetic "15900k with foveros tiles" would look like :o

    • @Pushing_Pixels
      @Pushing_Pixels 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      They might be able to create a design with a second CPU tile, for 12P / 16E + 2 E-LP on Soc (assuming they can get the scheduling to work properly with two tiles). If the power efficiency is as good as they suggest that would make a great desktop processor. The power consumption on 12th and 13th Gen desktop was out of control, but the performance was there. I would be happy with similar P and E core performance, but with more reasonable power consumption. Throw in the new GPU and NPU and it would be a winner.
      Even if they just released this design as an i5 I think it would do well.

  • @MikeCheck-ce2ri
    @MikeCheck-ce2ri 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    milijoules per frame is actually a great unit of measurement, I’ve never heard that used anywhere else

    • @noer0205
      @noer0205 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Digital Foundry has used it for a good bit of time by now. But yeah doesn't change that it is a very good and simple way to compare efficiency

    • @noer0205
      @noer0205 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Actually I think they do the inverse and compares frame per joule 😅

  • @julfy_god
    @julfy_god 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    seems like that would be a intel's m2 judging by performance, interesting if any better than 7840hs and of course m2 in terms of battery life and such

  • @ShrinivasKattimani66
    @ShrinivasKattimani66 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Is Intel's Core Ultra available for desktops?

  • @supabass4003
    @supabass4003 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    thanks ian

  • @olbtube
    @olbtube 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Very good vid Ian. In your opinion, how is this chiplet strategy going to evolve? Many more smaller chipplets? Chipplets on more stacked levels? Different nodes mixed together? Curious about your answer.

    • @user-sj3qz9yo3f
      @user-sj3qz9yo3f 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Do not think more chiplets - as the techtechpotato video shows, the 'landscape' (4 chiplets, foveros, ) likely remains the same while there can be changes within individual chiplets. For example, total new functions can be placed in the SoC die without need of a new chiplet.

    • @olbtube
      @olbtube 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thanks@@user-sj3qz9yo3f indeed, it offers a lot more modularity.

  • @Stopinvadingmyhardware
    @Stopinvadingmyhardware 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    You don’t have a video of the Xeon 5th Gen.

  • @sinanisler1
    @sinanisler1 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I will build a crazy PC next year for both AI and 3D GameDev
    cant wait with this new CPUs and GPUs in next year....

  • @popquizzz
    @popquizzz 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    NPU on an M.2 would be a marketing genius move. It could literally move the needle for exponential growth in bandwidth needs to the endpoint device, creating a need for higher bandwidth devices at work and home. Not to mention the software development jump to utilize this new hardware. This could be one of those immediate market disrupters. Whereas having to wait to upgrade to a new PC/laptop would be a slower adoption and Intel could cede more market to competition.

    • @D9ID9I
      @D9ID9I 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      There are npus/tpus on an m.2 of different types from Google.

  • @Winnetou17
    @Winnetou17 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Any idea if Meteor Lake will have proper 4 DIMM sticks of DDR5 support ? That is at normal speeds, not 3600-4400 MT/s (if you're lucky).
    I'm still using (writing from it) a desktop replacement laptop, 17.3" which is 2 months shy of being 7 year old. It has 64 GB of RAM, and boy, did I used them. I want my next one to be able to have 128 GB of RAM at decent speeds, so I can use that one too for at least 5 years, preferably 10. With the current generation, if you go for 128 GB, you'll have, in laptops, most likely 3600 MT/s on both 13th gen and Zen 4.
    Though, I know that Meteor Lake is much more about power efficiency and stuff. I don't know if we'll have workstation level laptop with it. I have this feeling that most likely I'll get a Framework 13 laptop with Meteor Lake to still have something in case this dies. Which I'll also be able to use for misc stuff. And I'll probably have to get a 15th gen Framework 16 or something like that. Sigh... so much waiting.... this 6700 HQ still does the job, but I'm constantly drooling at modern 8 core / 16 thread CPUs...

  • @tristan7216
    @tristan7216 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I write real time dpdk code that depends on stable timing. I sure hope this OS controlled thread promotion stuff can be bypassed for high performance code.

  • @nextcurve
    @nextcurve 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great job of breaking the Core Ultra down, my friend!

  • @Squilliam-Fancyson
    @Squilliam-Fancyson 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    New third level of compute cores will only further increase latency in thread scheduling. Not that keen on more input latency. But yeah will have to see I guess...

  • @billymania11
    @billymania11 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I'm now using a Microsoft Surface 9 as my main computer and I must say the performance is stellar. Similar to Apple M cpu powered laptops. It's probably because Microsoft is leveraging Intel's EVO system standards. The future looks good for Intel if they continue their current efforts around balanced system performance.

  • @j340_official
    @j340_official 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    So redwood cove and crestmont are essentially refreshes of golden cove and gracemont, but on intel 4 ? Is it fair to say that if Intel 4 was ready on time, we wouldn’t have seen Raptor lake ? Speaking of desktop did Intel mention meteor lake desktop or Raptor lake refresh ?
    Seems that the GPU is the biggest update in terms of performance. The NPU is new. And also seems like a dedicated focus on power efficiency for the CPU cores.
    Hopefully the next Lake has thunderbolt 5.

    • @heickelrrx
      @heickelrrx 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      it probably ready but can't reach Intel 7 Clock yet

    • @Eleganttf2
      @Eleganttf2 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@heickelrrxI see you're a fellow nerd aswell hekel heheh

    • @tringuyen7519
      @tringuyen7519 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yes, Arrow Lake will support thunderbolt 5. But it’s delayed. Intel delayed its TSMC 3nm (used for iGPU on Arrow Lake) order for 6 months. Think 2025, not 2024.

    • @__aceofspades
      @__aceofspades 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      ​@@tringuyen7519Arrow Lake isn't delayed.. They literally just reiterated yesterday that it was a 2024 launch, and showed it off on 20A silicon. They even showed us a working Lunar Lake demo, the successor to ARL... Intel is ahead of schedule.

  • @Wei5397
    @Wei5397 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I am wondering if there is more information regarding Intel's plan of 5 nodes in 4 years. They gave a brief presentation and said that they are on-track with their plan, but it would be very interesting to know what the status is in their fab. It would be very surprising if they can really manage to produce their 20A nodes by 2024, as there are some rumors that TSMC might even delay their N2 HVM to 2026.
    After all, switching from Fin FET to GAA is architectural change and it is really surprising if they really can manage such technological shift in such a short time. It is also quite puzzling if such fast switch is financially beneficial.

  • @primeprover
    @primeprover 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    Feels strange how long it is since we heard of a new process node from Intel. Wonder when we will hear the plans after 18A. Presumably they must have made decent progress on it by now.

    • @delongzhai4887
      @delongzhai4887 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      They showed 3 more process nodes in this year's innovation event after 18A. but shall come manufacturing ready end of 2026, for the very first process node of those three if we expect they stick with 1 year cadence like industry norm.

    • @primeprover
      @primeprover 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@delongzhai4887 all I have found is next, next+ and next++

  • @Techaktien
    @Techaktien 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thank you

  • @XDbored1
    @XDbored1 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    great low power video playback will be 666ms behind, i am sure this is a feature everyone wanted

  • @D9ID9I
    @D9ID9I 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Recent intel laptops are too hot and too power hungry for me. Hope this one can deliver better experience.

  • @oraz.
    @oraz. 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    That's very impressive

  • @mikeb3172
    @mikeb3172 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I'd be surprised if laptops didn't stay in SOC/low power mode all the time, except for initially opening apps. Esp with media engine in SOC.

    • @TechTechPotato
      @TechTechPotato  9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      The question is how much is in the low power mode, and can you go lower. Static power is a pain

    • @18earendil
      @18earendil 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Now, what will be insteresting is when Intel will port this architecture to CPU for x86 NAS. Synology and QNAP shifted to AMD for their current generation of refresh, but once the SoC tile LP E-Cores+ CPU tile E+P-cores scheme get good enough support on Linux and FreeBSD, Intel CPUs will do their great comeback on the NAS and homelab scene. Because those machines are most of the time at idle.

  • @HexerPsy
    @HexerPsy 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    I am worried about the NPU. I hope intel and AMD stay under DIrectML with their implementation, because I would hate there to be a whole CUDA vs OpenCL fight in the CPU space.
    "You need an intel chip for this fuctionality in our software."
    That would get me upset.

    • @mahirabbas3700
      @mahirabbas3700 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      OpenCL allows for usage in linux.

    • @HexerPsy
      @HexerPsy 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@mahirabbas3700 If I am not mistaken, you can run CUDA in linux as well?
      My experience is with blender3D for example - where the optix (RTX based) API gives you the best performance, next being CUDA - and on the AMD side you now have HIP.
      Before HIP you had OpenCL which had terrible performance.
      My point being that the software devs have to tailor their software to multiple specific hardware capabilities. Depending on the install base, it can take a long time for the minority's hardware to be properly supported.
      I would wish, for any AI hardware accelerators, we dont go down the fragmented rabbit hole... Hopefully it will stay under one API.

    • @mahirabbas3700
      @mahirabbas3700 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Maybe, although I'm not keen on increasing Nvidia's market dominance at the moment. Anything but CUDA for a little while, until competition is more healthy@@HexerPsy

  • @movax20h
    @movax20h 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I do hope that these NPUs, and also AMD ones, will have good software support. I.e. I am looking most for some OBS plugins that support them natively. Currently for example background removal, is really limited to Nvidia, and requires complex SDK. Would be nice to be able to use AMX (for simpler things) or NPU (for more intensive stuff) for this instead.

    • @deansmits006
      @deansmits006 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      According to AMD and others, gamers don't care much about efficiency for gaming. I mean, they may be asking people who buy 4090s.....

  • @wingcommanderbob8268
    @wingcommanderbob8268 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    is this going to be purely a mobile product or will there be a desktop release also? curious to see how that newer revision of alchemist does with desktop class cooling and memory vs the cards we've currently got

    • @ThorDyrden
      @ThorDyrden 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      This current design seems to be aimed at mobile.
      For Desktop I would regard some of the effort put into power-saving as overkill when connected to a power-plug. And on Desktop (Gaming) probably 8 P-Cores are the target for high-performance CPUs, as this is, what more and more games are optimized for.

    • @ViktorFerenczi
      @ViktorFerenczi 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@ThorDyrden Plus on desktop it may be more meaningful to put new threads on the P-code and go down from there, so the latency of moving threads from slow to faster cores does not affect the desktop and workstation models.

    • @Pushing_Pixels
      @Pushing_Pixels 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@ThorDyrden If there's one thing Intel desktop needs it's better power efficiency. 12th and 13th gen i7 and i9 were ridiculously power hungry and hard to cool, though the performance was good. Until Intel sorts out its power and heat issues though I wouldn't consider buying them at the high end.

    • @floorgang420
      @floorgang420 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      uArch wise this is 100% different. Massive changes on top to bottom. At this rate just wait for 15th gen desktop.

    • @ThorDyrden
      @ThorDyrden 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@Pushing_Pixels no doupt - the power-consumption and therefore cooling complexity was one of the reasons I chose team red this year.
      So efficiency should be a goal also for the desktop-CPUs... and I would expect the new manufacturing-process will be one step in that direction.
      But I still stand to my initial statement, that some of the measurement to reduce power-consumption we see in this currently leaked chip are too complex to be worth it for a desktop. What is the benefit of saving 10W on desktop, when it increases the CPU-price by 100$ ?
      That will be one of the benefits the this tile-concept. Intel can combine a different SKU aimed for different purposes. E.g. the LPE-Cores in the SOC probably don't have much use in a desktop and make the scheduling complex.
      Also consider - a lot of these new measurements are aimed to improve idle- & low-load powerusage, where current Intel are not bad already - Intel looses to AMD on high-load scenarios.

  • @Speak_Out_and_Remove_All_Doubt
    @Speak_Out_and_Remove_All_Doubt 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    How many people tap the screen to see how long the video was after he said if it's only 10 minutes I screwed up?!! 😂😂

  • @ABaumstumpf
    @ABaumstumpf 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I still wish Intel would finally give us some more small-formfactor and media-station oriented products. Now with the LPE-cores i would like to see something like 4+8+4 with 96/128 EUs but for DESKTOP for once. Why limit desktop to 24 EUs?

  • @ariliquin
    @ariliquin 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    If you want better battery life on laptop maybe run Apple silicon, Intel is still playing catch with Apple and TSMc

  • @Oysterok
    @Oysterok 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    这两年intel的进步在我们中国的硬件爱好者群体中有一个很有意思的描述,电子黄片,太刺激了😄

  • @velo1337
    @velo1337 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    i really hope this can trade blows with the m2 ultra and the upcoming m3

    • @maxjames00077
      @maxjames00077 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      If not than Arrow Lake will definitely

  • @totojejedinecnynick
    @totojejedinecnynick 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    3 types of cores per socket... I wonder which task scheduler is going to handle it on launch day (I hope Microsoft is on top of this). Linux is still struggling with simple P&E - as a result you have thread migration with all cache migration as well and resulting CPU branch predictors just throwing a towel anytime scheduler decides to move load from one type of core onto another (and even worse, another tile). I know ARM managed to figure it out in mobile chips but I keep my hopes low for MS, Linux, BSD...

    • @eliadbu
      @eliadbu 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      sooner or later they will figure it out. This is the future and not just for Intel.

    • @erkinalp
      @erkinalp 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      At this point, just program like the CPU is a distributed system of its own... Parallel algorithms might not work well.

    • @impuls60
      @impuls60 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@eliadbu I've had 2 terrible years with Alder lake so thats what I'm afraid of.. They'll launch it and figure it out on my time.

    • @eliadbu
      @eliadbu 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@impuls60 I have alder laker, the only issues I have is the heat all other work just fine on Win 11.

  • @MaxIronsThird
    @MaxIronsThird 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Meteor Lake is insane for mobile, i hope they decide to launch it to desktop as an early i5 for the new LGA1851 socket, to get mobos ready for Arrow Lake, so we don't get the same shitshow that was AM5 mobos' launch.

  • @El.Duder-ino
    @El.Duder-ino 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Meteor Lake/Foveros is going to be a long awaited next BIG leap for Intel. Competition is good indeed!😉

  • @denvera1g1
    @denvera1g1 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I for one would be estatic to have an NPU and quick sync on an M.2 card.
    I have a weird use case where i need AMD for one software solution, but cant put another software on in with proper support for AMD's VCE, so for best results i need 2 different boxes.
    A 7950x, and a 12100, but to get the NPU built in, it would be like having that correl TPU i remember seeing a while back that i considered for my security cameras.

  • @arech1778
    @arech1778 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I wonder how will the CPU react when I start baking in blender and then launch a light game in foreground. It could slow down the main task as it's in background, so I'm wasting time running a game on full cores while baking gets the slower ones

    • @saricubra2867
      @saricubra2867 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Maybe you are running blender on the graphics card and you don't have enough headroom for other stuff.

  • @sinephase
    @sinephase 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    on-CPU HBM for desktops/mobile when? :P

  • @prgnify
    @prgnify 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    So weird... I would expect them to target AI/ML workloads through their XMX dedicated 'cores' in their GPU - not a new 'architecture' sort of. Still, this whole package sounds awesome - not only for laptops but also from pc-gaming handhelds like the steam deck. Intel showing a very strong full package such as this, their willingness to work with others in the industry (whether sending chips for production at TSMC fabs or their IFS) and competitive performance, I think it is possible that the next generation of Consoles adopt them (work together to develop unique solutions). I don't know how much money does AMD make with those partnerships due to 'intangible' indirect benefits to every other segment simply due to the sheer VOLUME of units moved has to be great (and difficult to isolate in their earnings reports).

    • @ViktorFerenczi
      @ViktorFerenczi 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      A lot will depend on how fast software will start supporting the new NPU.

  • @PClanner
    @PClanner 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Love what they are doing with Battlemage - have invested in Intels graphics and hope they continue to provide a 3rd option that will rival team red/green.
    However, will the Intel GPU require the Meteor Lake CPU to work efficiently?

    • @__aceofspades
      @__aceofspades 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      You can use Arc GPUs with any CPU, however if you use Arc with a modern Intel CPU, you can bond them together for faster encoding and performance.

    • @Wobbothe3rd
      @Wobbothe3rd 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I'm less interested in discrete Arc GPUs than the idea of Arc A380 power integrated into mobile CPUs. Imagine that much power integrated running on a laptop - on battery! This would be HUGE for PC Gaming. Still not quite good enough for raytracing but RT apps would at least run. XeSS could be much more meaningful for low power situations too.

  • @lucysluckyday
    @lucysluckyday 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    lol. Low power gaming usually does equate to low performance gaming (so you're probably correct).

  • @POVwithRC
    @POVwithRC 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Can't wait for the first remote exploit which turns the NPU against the local machine it is in for the purposes of on-device cracking.

  • @woolfel
    @woolfel 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

    it's good Intel is trying things "new to Intel", but that sure seems way more complex than Apple silicon design. It will be interesting to see if it actually means a Dell laptop will get any where close to apple's M2 that can run full throttle for an entire work day on battery.

    • @gloriouscat-fishLover
      @gloriouscat-fishLover 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      The thing I really want to see is if performance tanks when running on battery . I think the biggest advantage of macs with m series is that you get almost the full performance on battery.

    • @joechang8696
      @joechang8696 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      there is no secret for any processor-core architecture to achieve any particular characteristic. you just have to choose which one is most desired. From there, you can band-aid to achieve other characteristics, but not as optimal as if that were the original target. At any given "process node" (example 4), there can be performance, density or low power versions. Intel and to a degree AMD, have always targeted max performance, suitable for desktop systems. These can be band-aided to lower power. Recently, AMD did a density version of Zen 4 in the c version. I believe one reason AMD was able to do this is that they have "synthesizable" masks? in that the design logic is translated to actual layout is done automatically. In the past, Intel did manual mask designs, which required many hundreds of people working for several months? This allows squeezing out a little more density and performance? Not sure if they still do this? This made it impractical to do a second design variation of any architecture with different optimization goal.

    • @user-yj1ov9cz9g
      @user-yj1ov9cz9g 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      ​@@gloriouscat-fishLover I think consumption doesn't tank on all laptops with a total consumption of

    • @tringuyen7519
      @tringuyen7519 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Bruh, Apple M3 MacBooks are coming out Q1 2024. Will MTL beat an M3? Intel should be more worried about AMD’s Strix Point.

    • @AndreVanKammen
      @AndreVanKammen 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@user-yj1ov9cz9gOn older thin and lights with Intell 11xxx series performance tanks a lot. We've seen decodeAudio do an mp3 in arround 1 second on power, drop to 7 - 15 seconds on battery. I hope this architecture does better, the Apple silicon certainly does better in this regard, although macbook air also seems to be thermaly throttled. It will differ a lot on the workload you give it.

  • @threesixtydegreeorbits2047
    @threesixtydegreeorbits2047 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    7:41
    A M O G U S

  • @COMATRON.
    @COMATRON. 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    great video - as always. your room sounds terrible tho. there is bass resonance ... cheerz from germany

    • @TechTechPotato
      @TechTechPotato  9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      This is a proper recording studio. The neighbors were being loud.

  • @sean2val
    @sean2val 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Impressive

  • @andytroo
    @andytroo 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    when you're thermally/power budget throttled ; power efficient == performant ; even for desktops the cpu limits overclocks according to power budgets ...

  • @tulsatrash
    @tulsatrash 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I wonder how it's going to run on Windows 10 and Linux.

  • @-szega
    @-szega 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    "500 mJ per frame" sounds a bit much to me - 0.5 J * 60 fps (Hz) is 30 Watts, unless this comparison was done on a desktop card, since it was about "leveraging Arc software improvements".

  • @ecophreak1
    @ecophreak1 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Exciting to see Intel glueing CPUs together

  • @EnochGitongaKimathi
    @EnochGitongaKimathi 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    With all the amazing tech inside Meteor Lake I'm disappointed there is no Thunderbolt 5. Ian reported at Anandtech in August 2021 when Gregory Bryant an executive at Intel leaked a Thunderbolt 5 working prototype demo. It is not that complicated

    • @TechTechPotato
      @TechTechPotato  9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      First TB5 silicon is coming out Q1 2024. That's the controller, not sure when it'll be embedded into the CPUs.

    • @EnochGitongaKimathi
      @EnochGitongaKimathi 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@TechTechPotato Meteor Lake is mobile 1st and most likely mobile only. Imagine a situation where integrated we have Thunderbolt 4 but have to use a discrete controller to get Thunderbolt 5....fail for me
      Intel will probably have to wait until Arrow Lake Desktop to even use the new Barlow Ridge Thunderbolt 5 controllers.

  • @damonm3
    @damonm3 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Of course things/tech get better with time.. but it’s truly impressive what engineers are designing, testing and producing at the bleeding edge of what’s currently possible. I’m not an engineer but sometimes wish I had the drive and motive to have followed though with my half baked plans to study ME. Kinda funny.. last 2 of 3 gfs were engineering students. One EE and one ME… really fascinating stuff. The workload was utterly insane tho. Like 3-4 hours a day in homework/study time. I called them both the weekend girlfriends. And honestly was often times a once a week kinda deal. I randomly met an AMD engineer a decade or so ago out exercising and gave him crap for AMDs ( at the time) really bad power efficiency compared to intel. Of course he was one of the top guys (from what I recall from a brief convo a long while back) at intel and I think was recruited to help AMD figure out their power and efficiency issues. Well it’s good to see that his team (sure there were many others) succeeded in their efforts.. smart people (especially engineers) are just something else. Gets me so excited and engaged to talk about crazy tech stuff with the people who are actually designing it. learning the basics of what goes into design/implementing ideas. Remember that everything that exists was once just an idea. Down to the seemingly minor details. I’ve got a lot of decent ideas but taking them thought to production won’t happen. Wish I had an endless inventor fund for trying to design/test stuff. It would for sure be what I’d do most of the time. I guess that’s what engineers do all day haha. Missed that boat unfortunately…

    • @thatwastakenagain
      @thatwastakenagain 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      just talked w/ an engineer mechcinal and they just do what works not new things for sure I think it depends but the work then the keeping up w/ the work is also why I didn't go into CS now regret it all due to every job needing to keep up or just falling behind

  • @hyp-o-crite-
    @hyp-o-crite- 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    can intel close the gab to nvidia + amd in 2 years?

  • @kayaogz
    @kayaogz 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Why do you think the GPU is still fabricated using TSMC 5nm instead of Intel 4?

    • @TechTechPotato
      @TechTechPotato  9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      That's what Intel told us. CPU tile on Intel 4, GPU tile on TSMC N5. It's not a thought, this is all information direct from Intel.

    • @kayaogz
      @kayaogz 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@TechTechPotato I was just curious about your opinion on the matter; might that be because of low current production capacity on Intel 4 (and using all that capacity to CPU tiles)?

    • @scottynoes
      @scottynoes 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      @@kayaogz Probably a combination of lack of Intel 4 capacity and the fact that Alchemist discrete chips are already made on N6, so it was likely an easier port. I'm more curious as to why the SoC and I/O tiles are N6 instead of Intel 7.

    • @kayaogz
      @kayaogz 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@scottynoes good point

    • @eliadbu
      @eliadbu 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@scottynoes If I would guess, probably it's better optimized for very low power use case. Intel 7 probably geared for high frequency, 14th gen RPL R will reach 6Ghz on top SKUs.

  • @Punisher9419
    @Punisher9419 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    As long as this scales to Desktop users well with better cooling I don't have a problem with any of this.

  • @WillFuI
    @WillFuI 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    O these cpus get me excited. It’s a shame we aren’t getting it to desktop. To bad these will be in $1000 laptops

  • @ChuckNorris-lf6vo
    @ChuckNorris-lf6vo 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    Good job Intel. Next step, Microsoft fix the OS finally and remove and modularize the bloat correctly. Will probably need A.G.I. for that achievement.

    • @Winnetou17
      @Winnetou17 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Linux FTW!

    • @saricubra2867
      @saricubra2867 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I don't know what bloat are you talking about, because Windows 11 is pretty minimalistic and Thread Director since Alder Lake did the biggest perf increase for day to day use.

    • @ChuckNorris-lf6vo
      @ChuckNorris-lf6vo 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@saricubra2867 The bloat is the modules removed with NTLite you can see them there as well as compare tiny10/phoenixlite to stock windows. If you do not "feel" the bloat on your system, maybe you are just lucky to have a powerful system and stable as well? There is also a lot of driver blaot, each driver comes with too many binaries. So it's a disguising mess. Do you understand the "bloat" - it feels like the system is dirty and performance that should otherwise go toward the user sucess - is wasted. Please note that sub-millisecond latencies also matter. They are like indication of cleanliness of the system.

  • @bits2646
    @bits2646 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Interesting, I thought each tile is from separate wafer, but looks like they're printed on same wafer

  • @mjdevlog
    @mjdevlog 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I hope some sku of it supports my b760m ddr4 motherboard😖

  • @clitmint
    @clitmint 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Can you tell me which Xeon chips Intel has cannibalised these from?
    I was in the middle of trying to figure out which Xeon's the 13th Gen chips were cannibalised from, and then started getting spammed with news of the 14th Gen Refresh chips LOL

    • @TechTechPotato
      @TechTechPotato  8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      None. Brand new chip.

  • @joejohnson8966
    @joejohnson8966 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    25:12 indeed it is.

  • @clitmint
    @clitmint 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    As to the "Power Efficiency" slide you showed there,
    In my view, it doesn't actually make a difference, considering in real world use, people are going to be doing something on their desktop that keeps the "big cores" active anyway. So now you will have an additional layer, taking some small bites of power as well.
    Perhaps even just moving the mouse around clicking and dragging, will keep the big cores active. That'll need testing of course.
    I'm also wondering if this will mean Windows will be geared even more toward Intel CPUs?
    So when Microsoft detects Intel as the vendor, it will automatically just gear it self toward best working with the Intel architecture.
    But then, and this is the very funny part, when Microsoft detects AMD as the vendor, it doesn't do anything for AMD since it still has to also work perfectly with older Intel architecture LOL
    AMD gets screwed over again! Love it!

  • @ChaitanyaShukla2503
    @ChaitanyaShukla2503 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thunderbolt is as ubiquitous as firewire was back in the day.

  • @insnprsn
    @insnprsn 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I need that shirt!

  • @CalgarGTX
    @CalgarGTX 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I think in typical Intel fashion they shot themselves in the foot before these things are even out, should have made a bigger deal of it that it was gonna be strongly positioned as mobile chips imo.
    We had a lot of rumors going on that this was gonna come to desktop and be the raptor lake successor or it was gonna replace arrow lake etc.. then performance numbers started coming that it wasn't that good on desktop anyway and might be cancelled etc... when clearly it's made for efficiency/battery life oriented laptops and *on paper* sounds pretty good on that front.
    (question mark for the thread director upgrades on windows side, we know MS is legendary at being slow to integrate low lvl hardware features like that and would much rather concentrate on putting apple lipstick on what was a functioning GUI)