The thing that really turns me off of fanservice is the recurring theme of “against their will”. SOOOO much fanservice in anime is women being exposed, groped, viewed, or straight up assaulted against their will, and it’s always played for lighthearted fun. Even shows where fanservice fun is the entire point focus mainly on girls being unwillingly sexualized, with male consequences (if any) portrayed as a simple punchline. Female characters who are proactively sexual seem to be rare (not nonexistent, but heavily outnumbered by sexy girls who don’t want to be sexualized).
Yes but in most of those cases, the pervert doing those things are gonna get slapped across the face, kicked in the nuts, or send flying and spinning into a nearby wall. Unless the offender is Yujiro Hanma…
That's due to the general air in Japan for several years now. Women got to a point where they were allowed to be something other than a housewife. So the desire for men decreased, they were less necessary. Then being sexually repressed (is that the word?), the men just get more and more into depravity. Which coincidentally pushes women away more. All this made worse by far too many expectations as far as school and poor working conditions, and you've got a looot of guys unwilling to grow up. Small wonder Japan has one of, if not the worst sex and birth rates. Like even when BDSM can become common fashion, with a big kink culture, pps are very dry. Anyway yea, that's why the force and discomfort exists. A woman actually being interested or consenting is "unrealistic" to many Japanese viewers.
YES! This is the main reason why I don't like most fanservice! I feel like a lot of people think people have a problem with fanserbicebecause they have a problem with sexy things in general, when in reality, a lot of fanservice is just flat out sexual harassment or a camera ogling the cast without them doing anything sexual themselves. It comes off as really creepy, especially if you have been sexually harassed yourself (I haven't, but other people have). I have seen some anime where the female character is openly flirtatious/sexualizing herself rather than being sexualized, as well as the pervy camera shots showing that the MC is attracted to his love interest, both of which I have no issue with
This prob why Darkness from Konosuba is so refreshing to see because she was willing and proud horny and both of her characteristics r used for humor and fan service, and audience love her for it. It shows that it's not that impossible and bad to write willing horny female characters.
One of my favorite obscure facts about Evangelion, is that plug suits weren't originally going to be those skintight latex suits. But Yoshiyuki Sadamoto, the character designer, wanted to see the cosplays of girls in the tight suits. He mentions it in his art book, Der Mond. It just further shows how horny that team was.
if i remember correctly theyre like 16-18 (im pretty sure they wouldnt have put a scene of a underage guy raping an underage girl), but its still incredibly fucked up.@@yeetrepublic9142
Really liked the video. It's encouraging to see more creators engaging with fanservice beyond the horny bad/horny good binary that this topic tends to encourage. And thanks for the shout out!
I’m glad you liked it! Your series on Kill la Kill was definitely what inspired me to take a deeper look at the whole topic. You voiced an opinion on that show I agreed with, but couldn’t articulate. So hearing your points allowed me to express my own on what I thought about fanservice as a whole. Though it is honestly crazy how few videos there are actually talking about any of this. Hopefully more people can take deeper looks into the topic or share videos with nuance on it, because without scrutiny it can’t change for the better.
Sexy fanservice makes me cringe, it seems as if the anime/manga was written for/by incels and detracts from its story/artistry. If i wanted T&A, i'd just watch porn.
I genuinely laughed at the _"... how does that even happen"_ in the list of fan service. If there is one thing we know about anime its that it will never let physics get in the way of a good bit of fan service. Be it a breeze that only affect women's clothing to a fall ending up with the male protagonist's face in a crotch regardless of starting orientation or distance.
@quetzalpacheco Same idea. Like when people say anime doesn't portray realistic women. I think about that. Why would people look for realistic portrayals in anime (unless the series claims to be). Though that's just me. Probably because I just think of anime as just dumb fun most of the time and don't think about it too deep most of the time.
I remember watching Kill La Kill and Ryuko being extremely embarrassed when she transformed. Throughout the show she learns to accept Senketsu and embrace her power growing as character. I don't know, seeing a lot of crazy fanservice in anime that just felt forced, it was pretty interesting to see the whole trope flipped on its head. Sits as one of my favourite shows because of it.
I actually kinda like that aspect because it’s deconstructing the fan service trope to show that the average school girl would actually be really embarrassed by wearing an outfit like that. Mostly though that show just makes my breasts hurt every time one of the girls transforms because of the visual of the bust straps tightening hard across the breasts, that looks seriously uncomfortable.
@@cathygrandstaff1957 I think the embarassment should still be there, yes. But, I think it should be her choice to wear the outfit, like "I know its super embarassing, and I will be mocked for it, but I need it" Then throughout the series, she becomes more comfortable in her skin, instead of being forced to accept it.
The last time fanservice seriously put me off was Fire Force. I’m no prude but something about the “against her will” element really turned me off to the point of finding it unbearable. the scenes with Tamaki border on sexual harassment as she is undressed and groped; She cries and feels humiliated. it’s not like it’s fun for her… I’m not usually too bothered by fanservice but I can say this one actually kind of disturbed me
yeah i was actually really interested in the story and the fight scenes were super cool, i enjoyed watching the show but holy fuck i could not make it past tamaki. such a shame.
Yea I usually skip her scenes. Also she isn’t an important character from what I’ve seen so far so I have no problem fast forwarding. The only good scenes with her was like fight toward the end of the last season.
Wonderful video! As a girl, I do kinda feel weird about the whole “fanservice is a goofy moment”- idea, I believe that sex jokes def work but they can’t be the only joke in the show.
yeah, especially when the fanservice is only done to girls that are underage (or look like it)nd against their will. It dehumanizes them and in turn dehumnizes women in real life too
Can confirm 911 jokes are funnier they are unexpected aren't the same old joke they are just obscure references to the twin towers or to 2 planes hitting something in the weirdest reference is pretty unexpected. Unlike sex jokes. Always boring. Always expected. Not very enjoyable.
Ok this feels like the best place to explain the reason why I’ve always hated the “falls and accidentally gropes girl” trope, not because it’s overdone, but because that would be so painful. My first thought would not be to slap someone, but to shrivel up in pain.
So true! Honestly I'd probably start swinging not because of the grope but because hanging onto just a boob for balance seriously would be so painful! What do they think boobs are made of??
RIGHT? If you fall, please for the love of God do not clutch my boob. It is not as stable as you think it is, I am not as strong as you think I am, and we are now both going to hit the floor and frankly you owe me an apology. If you can grab my boob, you can grab my shoulder. Alternatively, fall.
Exactly! I never understood how it was supposed to be any bit pleasant for the female. “Oh I’m gonna trip and fall and my hands are gonna squeeze your breasts so tight they sink into them.” Like ow, no don’t do that. Or the whole “Falling and face plants into underwear.” One? You’re just gonna head but her crotch
The sheer audacity of this man. I was 10 minutes in and thought, okay, that was a good summary, BUT THEN THE VIDEO JUST KEPT GOING This level of depth for a topic like this is fantastic to see, we need more serious discussion on topics like this that are clearly massively popular and influencial in our culture, yet due to the nature of the topic no one is willing to take it seriously and find out why, or more likely, don't want to shame themselves by association with the topic. Fascinating stuff all around, can't wait for your next video 'Top 5 Hentai Artworks That Belong In A Museum'.
The video came up on in my recommendations. I watch anime videos a lot so not surprising. The thumbnail with big anime tiddies and the word FANSERVICE across them got my attention. The first 5 seconds made me like Lextorias' sense of humour. And then i got sucked into the level of genuine informative CONTENT this man has produced. Jesus christ. I love video essays about "weird" topics!
When reading the title and seeing the thumbnail I did not expect something so deep and thoughtful and yet so engaging. Its simply stunning how nuanced and deeply you were able to portray a topic like this and it seriously made me think. I also now understand, that I just didnt get kill la kill. Major props to your jurnalistic work. You, my man, have a gift. Please dont ever stop with content like this
The fake ad juke was glorious, subbed. Also I've ran into nude calendars locally as well, some for firefighters raising money for their station and one for college girls into the outdoors raising money for... body positivity? It was entirely organized by women and was very weird to hear my friends proud of participating in it. Lots of people sexualize things, not always on purpose, for many reasons like to raise awareness or popularity and it speaks to the darker aspects of human nature that it's seen as okay at all let alone certain situations.
I took 3-4 years of classes and got certified until deciding to not follow up on firefighting. The calenders being one of the reasons why I quit. Even my own family would make odd comments on my ‘figure’ Some of the guys are ok with it, but eugh
I think it says a lot that you have people absolutely hounding over the women in series like Attack on Titan and Chainsaw Man, despite them having comparatively little fanservice. This is of course due a lot to their tone and target demographic being different, but I think lessons can be learned from this about how fans appreciate strong and interesting characters with big tits more than just big tits.
"Comparatively little fanservice" in chainsaw man?? Chainsaw man has ALOT of fanservice... it's just the fanservice is different than fanservice in other mangas.
@@freedom1667 i can only think of 2 chapters that might be considered fanservice in CSM which is the end of that whole bat devil arc and reze's bomb devil design but even then, except for reze's devil design, everything else can be considered as part of the plot since it ties into the character of denji and how he is.
@@icantthinkofagoodnameso1954 [Disclaimer: I'm currently reading it and am therefore only around chapter 55] At first I thought you were 'wrong' in some way. Of course CM doesn't show naked skin - except reze's pool scene - but it is kinda explicit in terms of teasing and intimacy... and I think some people would call this fanservice. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that it is all connected to the plot. Denji's 1st motivation was to touch boobs. Why? Because he is a teenage boy. This is the premise we start with, the motive that keeps Denji going. And later Power, a demon without the same perception of feelings and sexuality as humans have it, uses this to teas Denji. Makima on the other hand uses it to manipulate Denji. Reze's nudity is part of Denji's development as a character and as a teenager and also part of her character. And let's not forget eyepatch girl that also uses it to motivate Denji and as a comedic element. So yeah, I would not only say that the fanservice is non-explicit, but would go further and say that it is well used and integrated in the plot and story :)
@@grey_m0nkey218 I take issue with your use of the word "kinda." CSM is VERY explicit about the sexual tension between characters. Whether or not someone counts this as "fanservice" depends on their own definition of the term. It may not be nudity, but I agree that the teasing scenes do give the audience a boner. I'm going to talk a bit on how the teasing and secual tension helps the story. The story centers around Denji, a somewhat good natured and derpy teenager, being thrust into a very dark and grueling adult world. Many of those adults take advantage of him as a teenager, utilizing Denji's horny and impressionable nature to try and manipulate him for their own ends. This leads to the large amount of sexual tension as Denji slowly explores his own sexuality, desires, motivations, and many other factors as he grows up. This is literally a coming of age story being told in the most gritty manner possible, and a teenager learning to accept and deal with their horny nature is a necessary part of any of these stories. This is especially true for Denji, who, up to the beginning of the story, has had very little to observe in terms of people on which to model his own take on relationships. Now he is suddenly getting many different role models, love interests, and what not shoved into his face, and we get to witness his struggles with such things. And this isn't even talking about the other half of the story about the nature of devils, fear, and the supernatural elements of the world of CSM. What a fantastic story.
Maybe this is just me, but I usually dislike fan service in animes because a lot of times it’s women in embarrassing/ humiliating situations - it’s never done to make them feel cool or be in power (I’ve only seen it to be the case in rare situations). I would feel so much comfortable if they were fine with it and enjoying themselves. Many times they’re shown as innocent beings who’re not realising they’re turning the guys on by accidentally flashing them their underwears etc. Honestly, I just want the women who’re doing fan service to do it because they want to and feel like it, and I want their characters to have their own arch’s and be well developed and not there just for fan service. Erza from fairy tail was my favourite character because of this while I hated Lucy.
That’s exactly why I like fan service. I’ve always wanted to walk a chick like she’s a dog and I know there’s other chicks into it. Just not mine I haven’t told her about my demeaning kink because she’s super Christian and I’m not.
I think when you were contrasting Kill la Kill to Fire Force you hit the nail on the head for me for what makes me totally chill about fanservice vs not liking it. As a woman who's watched hundreds of series, I went through a phase where I didn't mind fanservice at all because I was so desencitized to it, to it being incredibly annoying, to now trying to look at it in a more balanced way. The two things that break fanservice for me is consent and tone. Fan service for comedy or in romance shows is perfect. Not when it interrupts really impactful moments. But consent is the biggest element to me now. Consent is why I loved Dress Up Darling and why characters like Yoruichi from Bleach are amazing. Consent is why I thought Food Wars was genius when I first saw it. And consent is why I don't want to put up with ecchi shows that cheaply disrespect their characters.
It’s not about the cartoons-and if they were just cartoons, you wouldn’t care to be defensive over it. It’s about what impact it can have on a select audience to repeatedly show them that it’s okay and even funny to basically sexually assault women. It’s also that, I dunno, maybe people might be sensitive to things like rape and sexual assault being treated like a joke? Y’know…the way it often is in real life? Something something art imitates life, life imitates art? Just a thought. And I mean, yeah, I dunno. I believe if you’re someone who is serious about your art and the story you’re trying to tell, there is such a thing as disrespecting/undermining/compromising your own vision with cheap gimmicks.
Good video! I AM a bit disappointed that you don’t get into the probably the biggest reason people hate fan service: consent and intent. Literally nobody complains about Julia or Faye from Cowboy Bebop dressing sexy. They presumably chose their own outfits and are grown ass ladies expressing their own sexuality. Even Dress Up Darling is about a girl choosing to dress sexy. But 90% of anime fan service is done in spite of the characters wishes in ways that often parallel uncomfortable ways girls/women are sexualized against their wishes in real life. It’s not fun for female watchers or even just like me who wishes to see boobs without feeling like I’m party to SA. Ugh. Edit: spelling/autocorrect
@@hoangquanle3310 I mean, yeah, that but also she’s a huge dork and a sleezeball! The ‘femme-fatale’ trope can be a little overused in of itself as just an excuse for fan service of its own kind… But I mentioned Feye because Bebop is SO good at character
I wouldn't say that's the _biggest_ reason, in the sense of it being the main reason for the majority of folks who dislike it. Not even by a long shot. Now, I'll concede that it's _the most important_ reason for a certain demographic that needs to constantly virtue signal lest they get thrown under the bus by the company they've chosen to keep. But for the rest of us normies, it's really about the incessant immaturity of the whole thing. A constant barrage of ridiculous, unrealistic, contrived situations leading to sexually awkward moments may have appeal to the younger crowd, but it's humour on the same level as poop and fart jokes. Which I'd hope anyone has outgrown by the time they're out of high school.
Can I just say that the fanservice for male characters is totally different than the female characters that I wouldn't really call it fanservice? You'll never see a male character get accidentally "groped" and feel humiliated for it. Or male parts jiggle and a close up of their skintight bums while their faces blush? It ain't sexy, it's just a trip to the local gym lol. I want better fanservice for male characters, truly.
Yeah, some people love to argue that men are equally sexualized because some appear shirtless or muscular like in dragon ball, as if that's supposed to cater to women in any way
It's because people express their satisfaction differently due to nature. Women typically have visually softer bodies, of course grow in such a way due to potential motherhood, leading to maternal instincts and how babies react to their mothers bodies, which naturally follows us (and gets exaggerated) into adulthood. Men's bodies on the other hand are built differently from women, since the natural stereotype is that we're typically the iron walls since we're stronger. Now imagine that kind of jiggling around on a man. That wouldn't be taken in a way that can be read as maternal baby fat that a woman has and by extension perfectly fit for parenthood. That would be taken as a man being lazy or unfit.
The male fanservice you want is generally relegated to yaoi hentai. Oh, and bara. It's less common, but, when it does appear, it's like there's an unspoken rule of how it's either non-existent or dialed up to 100. There's no chill. In reference to mrdoctorjr: If you'd quit bringing up something like DBZ, we'd get somewhere. Shows like Free!, Diabolik Lovers, Black Butler, Dramatical Murders, Fushigi Yuugi, Yona of the Dawn, and Hakuouki are more honest examples, and they've been cropping up more and more. It appears to mirror the increase of female manga/anime viewership in Japan. Anime, game, and manga producers want to make money, and try and organically react to fluctuating consumer base in order to make said money.
Fun fact… I got my mom into anime when she was really sick one time, and I set it her up with my crunchy roll account with a few recommendations. She ended up eventually watching “food wars” and it is now her favorite anime 😂😂
A while ago I thought of a joke idea of a magical girl show where everyone's powers were based off of kinks and fetishes. But your discussion about Kill La Kill really makes me want to pursue this as an actual story idea, as I feel like there's a lot of potential.
My problem with a lot of the fanservice i see is that it's basically assault treated like a joke, and when you identify with a female character to see them being treated like that and made fun of... It's not funny, it reflects how you're being viewed as a whole, and it sucks. sure it can be fun and cool, but most of the time it isn't
Shoujo, Seinen and a couple of other Anime genre’s do the fanservice where that doesn’t happen to the Female character where she’s not an assault joke, they either have agency in their sexiness or the show don’t have any at all particularly Seinen Anime’s, so it sounds to me you gotta stop watching what’s popular or mainstream and try venturing out.
This is my problem with a lot of anime as well. I want to like anime, but it makes it really hard to like. Now that I'm learning about some of the different genres, I'm going to try and branch out. Shout out to Skye2993 I'm going to take your advice.
The closest parallel i can think of is how jump scares are percieved in horror media. While there is more developed opinions around jumpscares i think its due to it not being tangled up with cultural hangups. I will note that theres plenty of points where eva has had criticism over it fanservice despite most of it being plot relevant or grounded. For example in episode 23 where rei is being corrupted by the angel the fanserice there is used to show the very personal violation happening in the scene.
The jump scare analogy is great. I think big scare moments in modern horror movies would classify as a type of fanservice. So that’s an excellent parallel
@@FrogEnjoyer17 There are always deliberate decisions in the presentation of a scene that can even make plot relevant occurences fall under fan service.
As someone who doesn't watch any anime, you've gotten me to watch a full video about anime and be properly interested in it for every frame. Bravo to you, sir.
i’m not a massive anime fan but i’m a woman and some people in my school happen to be anime fans. I find fan service frustrating because of how the people in my school behave in relation to it. i’ve been asked very invasive questions about my body in relation to anime or some kids in my school even think it’s okay to “accidentally” grope me and other girls. that’s what I find frustrating about anime.
Like Lextorias said in one of his other videos, I believe the one on waifus (paraphrasing here); anime is not to blame for what people who like it do, and this applies to most things in life. Responsible adults who like anime and are functioning members of society exist, and we're proof that those freaks who act upon their most primal, primitive instincts do so because of their own personal issues, not because of anime.
The "1000 year old loli dragon" trope absolutely needs to die. Personally I find the sexualizing of characters that either are or appear to be pre puberty viscerally the worst. Teenage characters that are drawn with more adult sexual characteristics are more of a gray zone, but good god can't everyone at least agree not to do fan service that could only possibly appeal to child predators??
I never watched fire force, but based on what was shown here I don't think any subversion of trope could've saved that tamaki character. her entire thing apparently is existing to be harassed "by accident" over and over again. so even in the scenes where this somehow makes her win a fight and makes her opponent look ridiculous, she's still being harassed and humiliated and dehumanised. she's the most exaggerated example of why I've been so turned off by anime for a while and still am very cautious with what I watch. they have to include a woman being harassed for laughs at least once in so many shows and it gets fucking old really quick.
Very true, I watch anime with my girlfriend sometimes and honestly it just ruins the show for both of us when there’s this sort of really uncomfortable fan service. I gotta go through anime beforehand before we watch it cause it’s just so awkward lol
@@velvetra29 ok tamaki is a very sore spot on the anime but other than her it's still an excellent show. every show has it's strengths and weaknesses and tamaki just happens to be one of its weaknesses. keep in mind it has many strengths.
@@flogchamp9530 Feels like i have to eat a pizza that have olives on top of it. It's so annoying that either i have to discard those olives by myself, or just suck it up and eat the pizza with the olives. It's a darn good pizza, but the olives may ruin my experience.
The most offputting part of fanservice for me is when it’s inappropriately done to extremely underage looking female characters… and the quickest example I can give is No Game No Life
@@arcadesrstillcool3778 I was able to ignore it because I had a lot of fun with the concept of that series and the animation was beautiful... but holy heck do i understand why people give up on it :(
K-ON. I love that show to no end but the way Sawako acts around these high schoolers is incredibly uncomfortable and I don't know how it got past the censors.
@@arcadesrstillcool3778 underaged charachter*, no more no less, only 1. Though yeah too fanserviced, like all the time Seph was on the screen and whenever. I only watched it cuz the concept was neat, it being determined by games and you didnt know what to expect. Believe it has fanservice aswell for it being targetted/output to japan n not westerners, we see fanservice often in top anime so it shows its working and people are degenartes. Having sexual desires are normal n sex sells, social media proves it by showing off their body with recent popular dances. im sry to inform thats just how the world works
You do a good job touching on a lot, the history was good to learn, and I liked the examples you used. A point I was hoping to see explored more was Fanservice as Sexual Assault. You come close to it through other points but I feel it's a big part of the discussion and issues surrounding the topic. F as SA usually comes up in darker "I'm 14 and this is deep" shows like Gantz and Mirai Nikki, but also is most of the fanservice in Berserk which is a fascinating example because it's an actually deep metanarrative comprised entirely of shallow elements. Even when F as SA serves the obvious purpose of villainizing a villain, it's often indulged to the point of gratuity and might as well have been any other crime for all the narrative weight and lasting impact it usually has. Where Berserk is able to distinguish itself is with narrative weight and acknowledging that only twisted and perverted people become monsters to begin with, which is enough to mostly validate the subtrope despite also making almost every apostle and monster a sexual organ with a face.
I never watched Fire Force, but from what was described in the video that one scene got me thinking. 16:30 What if, after her clothes get burned, the male character took off his jacket to cover her? To help Tamaki gain some comfort in her state of vulnerability.
@@RsVs2304disagree. It would actually be yet another example of pandering to the male fantasy of women needing mens help. And perpetuates the harmful stereotype of women being weaker than their male counterparts.
I think it also bears mentioning that a lot of the arguments against fan service aren’t against sexuality in media, but rather specifically, the objectification of women, and portraying sexual harassment as something that is funny or light hearted. I see a lot of people not realizing that watching someone being objectified, can make the viewer feel objectified.
I don't really like how one sided it is, though. A woman can be shown wearing revealing clothing and that is considered "objectification", but a man can be shirtless, musclebound, even actively groped or sexually abused (hit to the nuts etc) and there is just silence about that.
Not really. This is one of those situations where discussing something from within the fandom does a disservice to the complexities. In Japan, the concept of "service" predates anime and is everywhere throughout the culture. For example, before Cutie Honey we have idols, who are packaged and presented in a very similar way as anime. Especially in the 1970s, it was common for most female stars to present "fan service" in the form of nude or gravure photography. In the 1960s the film genre called "Pink film" started, where almost every woman had nude scenes, even if they were a major actor/protagonist. Within the world of adult entertainment, prostitution, etc, it's always been common practice to refer to these things as "service". The word is wildly used this way in Japan. "Fan service", is a slang that developed somewhat alongside anime, but denotes services which are done complimentary, or for free for the fans. And in Japanese we use this word all the time to refer to risky/suggestive things. Even 30 years ago it's normal ask a girl to give you "service" as a euphemism for perverted stuff. Explaining "fan service" in this way hyper focuses this to anime industry, when this is a wider, older and much more engrained cultural phenomenon in Japan. This is not anime, this is Japanese culture.
Very interesting, thanks for sharing! Viewing things from only within their respective community easily leads to overlooking broader issues about the general culture (here, the sexualization of young girls and women).
A culture that treats women badly , I bet most of those actors and idols doing those nude shots were most likely only doing it because it was that or there career being over.
This does a great job at providing the context we need to understand why anime is the way it is. And I’m glad you brought this up cuz anime culture didn’t pop up in a vaccume, it’s, to some degree, based on the cultural norms and understandings of the Japanese people. I think looking at it from the anime prospective can also be very helpful. Anime is the main by which man foreigner are introduced to certain cultural aspects of Japan, including the bad sides. And to focus on the anime prospective allows us to see it’s impact beyond the Japanese boarders.
First video I've seen of you, but it's like I'm watching an Ordinary Things video about anime. You have a very nice voice to listen to, don't devalue the information you're providing with unnessecary jokes, still manage to put some humor into it, and most importantly: did a lot of research.
Great vid! My main issues that I see with fan service is the impact it has on the story, the objectification of women, and the fact that it usually features underage girls. I'd love to see a part two of this vid focusing on the later since you talked extensively about the first here.
100% agree about tamaki. almost quit the show over her first "pervert" scene. i know other people get semi nude but they never "accidently" have hands laid on their genitals as a joke.
@@toosmoofoyou there's times when lucky pervert BS can be funny and entertaining, but overuse and poor timing can really ruin a show. I happen to agree that the use in the examples detracted from what would have been a much better scenes otherwise
@@Phynellius It's just a matter of opinion anyhow, I don't mind it because I don't have a problem with it seeing as I'm fine with that type of humour. Different people view it different ways.
My issue with fanservice is that its usually teenage girls that get sexualized against their will, its rapey, mysoginist and pedophelic. I don't know if your examples fit into this but im fairly certain they do.
It's not pedophilic in the slightest. It's understandable to be put off with these tropes, but labeling fiction with something as serious as pedophilia is dangerous.
@@notpeace I see how labeling things as that might be removing the actual danger in real life, but there are a lot of pedophilic tendencies in many anime (ex. loli)
on kill la kill: i used to have a classmate who at some point told me it was "embarassing to talk about anime in public" when i was chatting with another friend while waiting for his train. two months and a dose of kill la kill later the same guy was, in the same place, screeching about clothes being social oppression. everyone could hear him and he did not appreciate being reminded of his previous stance. still cracks me up to this day and it's one of my best high school memories.
i think the cyberpunk anime really emphasises the point you made at the end. it has nudity and sex, not being afraid to show the female character's tits, or the male character's bare asses, but it does so in a way that doesn't feel pandering. it just makes the show seem like it was made for adults, and made to be analysed with an adult's level of intellectualism.
Imaishi is really good at using fanservice correctly. He also did Panty & Stocking which has a lot of fanservice and it makes sense there because the entire show is a vulgar Sex Comedy, and the two main protagonists know they're sexy, have active sex lives (Panty has sex with 1000 men) and sexualise themselves on purpose.
I've seen people use the term "perv pandering" to specifically refer to the sexual type of fanservice. I always preferred that term. It feels more accurate because as a fan, often those sorts of scenes feel like a disservice to me.
So I watched Kill La Kill because in one of Sega's Twitter Takeover events, Shadow the Hedgehog said it was his favorite anime. I'm glad that I did watch it, it's pretty deep if you dig past the surface
Your explanation of how Fire Force perpetuates fanservice negativity is perfect! I'm all for fun ridiculous fanservice, sexual expression, and sex positivity but when it's literally ruining the character's legitimacy within that world it's being done wrong. The other thing that becomes problematic in a lot of anime is when women are portrayed as unintelligent, always needing to rely on the male protagonist, or just not being capable in almost any capacity.
@@joshs7160 Yeah, no. Undermining any and all development of a character for the sole purpose of acting as a vehicle for fanservice is just poor writing.
I mean... Women being portrayed unintelligent and always relying on the male lead is a problem in general... Unfortunately it's not just an anime thing
"...You should be in jail!" I did like to see someone try big boy! Either way goo analysis video, I always didn't liked when fanservice becomes intrusive to the story or the only thing a character is good for on the entire run, but people just go all way against it like we are in the middle ages or something
My dad walked in when me and my brothers were watching fire force, but as opposed to any of the female fan service, he walked in on the nude calendar episode. This was henceforth known as “The Fire Force Incident”
Very good video! Your description of the bad guy in Fire Force working through his weakness reminded me of Master Roshi in DBS realizing his pervyness was holding back his power and trained to overcome it.
@@lukasbade5919 i’m mixed on this because i mean anime is just art but also like the art is portraying the human physique so like but again i’m mixed on it
@@desklamp8591 But much fanservice is not being artistic about the human physique. It is not being used to convey meaningful themes, such as the fragility of the human body, or how deep rooted insecurity is born seeing our naked skin and always being uncomfortable with it, how scars and burns and imperfections can make you hate the body you have. It doesn't even try to convey the idea that the human body is beautiful in all its forms, and we should appreciate it as much as we can. No, instead, it is juvenile. It's about butt shots, panty shots, thighs, breasts bouncing, clothes being removed or torn off. It is surface level horny baiting that isn't trying to be anything more. Most of the time, anyway.
My biggest issue with sexual fanservice in anime are more the ones where the "women" are incredibly infantilized (or straight up are young girls)... which, unfortunately is most of them.
Yea I personally wouldn't mind fanservice if it was done to both genders equally like in Food wars But its mostly female characters and especially underage characters which is why it can be both very annoying and sometimes uncomfortable to watch
@@Moon1tan this! most fan service is misogynistic bullshit. if it’s done to both genders properly, and it isn’t stupid, infantalising, or any of the other million bad things it could be then it’s fine. the food wars bit is a good example.
Personally I think that the “anime is trash and so am I” thing is not about fan-service and nudity, but about the bottom of the barrel filth storytelling that floods the medium, like Asterisk War, or Slave Harem in the Labyrinth of another world
It has the same energy as "you watch anime? But cartoons are for children!". I've been laughed at for FMA being my favorite anime. I made them watch this show about human experimentation, existentialism and genocide. All of a sudden "cartoons" weren'T just for children anymore.
@@MinqApoc Gundam would like to disagree. God damn war crimes and senseless death galore. Yeah, definitely for children. Sure you got weird points in the original series, but if you show nothing but war even the audience would become desensitized. Gotta break up pacing.
@@MinqApoc Not sure if I would equate them or use them in comparison. "Anime is thrash and so am I" comes from within the community and it's a refusal to change or even think about the problem. It's by refusing to take fanfiction with maturity (often seen as "taking the joke too seriously") that a lot of anime give an accurate impression of being made to pander to immature people and otaku give an accurate impression of being immature.
1:34 In the west, we wholeheartedly accept violence and brutality, but we censor sexuality. In Japan, it is the opposite. they are cool with sexuality but heavily censor violence. While there are exceptions on both sides, you'll quickly notice the general trend, especially with the always angry face protagonist found in the west.
Uh, you would be mistaken. Violence is generally uncensored in the majority of shonen that gets broadcast in Japan. The determining factor to the level of graphic violence is which broadcast slot the property is aired in. This is very easy to observe when anime is localised - let's stick with an American audience (as different countries have different broadcast standards/tendencies) - the infamous "4Kids dubs" of Pokemon, Yugi-oh and One Piece should be proof enough, buy even older series like Sailor Moon and Dragonball/DBZ were heavily censored (unless they were aired during Toonami's Midnight Run, the precursor to Adult Swim).
@@StudyofSwords I mean like they do though have you seen the Resident Evil 2 Remake or Any violent game I don't even remember the anime about the cockroach people They do censor it But it's just random sometimes Or all the time I don't know you just have to look for it but i do know its especially in video games. Its to the point that Japan audiences usually buy American versions of the game just two get around that.
@@lonelywolf5659 This is really interesting, becuase you end up seeing somewhat similar occurences when it comes to eromanga/anime ("hentai" if you will), where owing to censorship laws (as well as publishing conventions) the "uncensored" versions of these properties are re-edited outside of the Japanese market.
Great video my man. When I saw your poll a while back Fire Force was actually my first thought. Because personally I almost always love fan service it's fun and well hot. I think for most complaints about it people either need to just relax, attractive characters or that type of humor is fine to exist, or just accept that the show isn't for them. However that big moment with Tamaki was among the first times I ever truly disliked a fanservice scene. I thought about how it took me out of the moment. Honestly it really reminded of how Marvel movies constantly inject comedy into the wrong scenes killing tension and the mood. I think the key to fanservice in most series is to think of it as comedy. If comedy wouldn't fit in this scene why the hell would tiddies? Dragon Maid can have fanservice everywhere because the show is just for fun and lightheartedness. A serious shonen needs to be smarter where it puts fanservice just as it would with comedy. Or it needs to be a primary plot point like you mentioned with Kill la Kill, Food wars, or High school DxD one of my favorites. So yeah thank you for a more nuanced video on the topic that wasn't the usual tiddies good or tiddies bad there's no middle ground I usually see. Keep up the great work.
It's ok for Dragon maid cause if's fun and light hearted but Fire Force is super serious? Did you even watch the show? Over half the show is joking around and being goofy. Serious moments are more sprinkled in than the silly fun parts. Every character has some similar comedic aspect to them that is played up during fights etc as well yet Tamaki's is bad. Be honest at least and say I didn't like it cause people on the internet said it's a bad thing.
@@thisisobviouslybait Bro relax. I never said Fire Force was super serious. I even like the Tamaki scenes in most of the rest of the show. They are funny and work great for the slice of life moments or for some of the big set up jokes. Overall I really like Fire Force. But you can't pretend that Fire Force doesn't have serious scenes and overall is trying to build some serious stakes for its ever growing conflict. Just like almost any other shonen. It having jokes like Arthur being a dumbass doesn't suddenly make it comedy. When Arthur is dumb in a fight, while funny, is played straight and serious. It is funny while being tonally consistent. His fights are rarely put on pause to make his jokes, they flow. Tamaki having her mentor betray her, children dying, and her to be beaten only to suddenly have "oops tripped into boobs" is not tonally consistent. The serious emotional payoffs of Shinra being Tamaki's new hero are disrupted by a joke. The action and emotion are put on pause so we can flounder around for a joke. Tamaki vs Assault the joke doesn't pause the action or emotion. The entire scene is a set up for the joke and it ends when she beats him. It isn't just randomly placed in the middle of a fight. Overall with Tamaki that early moment is the only scene I have a serious problem with. Shes great for the majority of the rest of the show. Dragon maid on the other hand is almost a purely light hearted slice of life. Jokes and fanservice can fit almost anywhere. But during its few serious scenes like Tohru's dad trying to take her away they don't interrupt it with jokes or fanservice. These interruptions are what I take problems with. Not the fanservice itself. Love tiddies.
@@thisisobviouslybait Yes. Arthur's jokes like suddenly remembering he's left handed doesn't pause the action or the drama. The fight starts and continues with him losing and building tension till he realizes what he's doing wrong. Then he proceeds to win. It's funny and concludes the action. The scene doesn't pause the fight for Arthur to scratch his head and pace around wondering why he's losing for him to then go "aha". The action and joke flows. Tamaki's early scene comes to a screeching halt to make tiddy jokes. It has to work organically and flow with the rest of the scene. Arthur's work because they flow well. Even later Tamaki stuff flows well. That first Tamaki scene with her mentor and the children just doesn't work well.
Agreed 100% with everything in the video. Not to get rid of fanservice, just on how to use it well. One thing I should note though is that a ripped guy character being shirtless isn't necessarily considered fanservice to women (or bi/pan/straight women I should say). Things such as a man's voice, hands, personality, and pose and the ways those elements are used are what I would argue constitute fanservice for women, or at least to a higher regard. A good example of this would be Yang from Piofiore: Fated Memories with his voice specifically being pointed out as the reason otome players gravitate towards him (and ignore his murderous tendencies LOL). There's also the fact that a lot of the time in shonen scenes where a guy becomes shirtless, when it's not a display of power/awesomeness for the boys watching to feel powerful or to see that this guy is strong, it's typically in the context of comedy where we're meant to laugh at him or at the scene/situation as a whole, not to be excited or aroused by him.
I don’t think that’s true since you are discussing shirt ripping as a comedy meme; but it was so common that that it became the trope so that now it is done in comedic way. But honestly; I can’t think of a single movie with a real person, or an anime that does what you suggest and does it for comedy. Also as an asexual robot; other humans are gross. Why all the shirt ripping and nudity at all? Also stop heterosexual couples in stuff while you are at. Humans; ick.
I agree about the shirtless dude not necessarily being fanservice material aimed at women! So many people bring up shirtless dudes, when the topic of overt sexualization of female characters come up. Shirtless men in mainstream media are rarely there to be gawked at. I'm glad you brought up Piofiore, because otome tropes are a good example on how fanservice aimed at a female audience really is. Sure, there are shirtless scenes and tight, sometimes downright ridiculous outfits (for example whatever Loki wears in Kamigami no Asobi), but there is so much more! Fanservice aimed at women is just as diverse and fanservice aimed at men.
The problem about fanservice is that this kind of fanservice is often *for* men. So are women really being empowered? Or are men just applauding for women being naked and trying to rationalize it?
Exactly, the female characters who are pure fan service are never empowered. They get their clothes "accidentally" ripped off, or a guy stumbles and falls into their insanely large boobs, they get groped and touched against their will, and it's always clearly shown that either the female character is embarrassed while a male character is ogling her or that she actually likes this disrespectful treatment. It only serves the male audience, there is no empowerment for women when it comes to fan service.
Although it's nice to see empowerment through sexualization every once in a while, I wish that wasn't the ONLY form of empowerment that gets talked about when it comes to anime. As a woman who's male friends watch a lot of anime, I'm very picky with what I watch because the way women are generally depicted in shows. Not just the sexualization, but the lack of meaningful stories, the lack of detail on the woman experience, the lack of the woman perspective on relationships. I don't want the only shows that empower women to be through extreme fanservice that they are aware of, although those shows themselves are good. I agree with including fanservice in a good way, and a big part of that is through the equality of it and "not just the hot girls" like you said for food wars, and fanservice that also fits the tone of the story. BUT! I dislike the disregard of it being male pandering because definitely, most of time, it's only for men, or maaayyyybe wlw. As a woman, seeing jiggly boobs, even in a "good" way, throughout the entire show without anything coming from the opposite sex, is unappealing. It's fanservice for male fans, not fans in general. I'm not against nudity in shows, live action or animated. But for say, live action fantasy shows showing misogyny through overused explicit rape scenes, I still don't appreciate it. I think this video essay would have been a lot more insightful if it delved deeper into a woman's perspective on anime. Throughout the entire thing, women's perspectives and psyche are talked about as a hypothetical, a concept, a mystical idea that takes aot to understand, but not a simple, real thing that can be put off by these shows. If you ever do a part two, I'd love for you to feature a woman who is an anime enthusiast where the two of you can have a discussion on this topic. Is extreme but self aware sexualization always empowering? Even if the fanservice is good for plot, is it still fun for a woman to watch a bunch of jiggling boobs on screen? Definitely feel like this was a huge missed topic.
Well said. There’s a lot more that can be said about fanservice combined with the role of female characters and how the fanservice only serves to further diminish weak writing of girls and women in these narratives written by men. If you need any recs for anime with little-to-no fanservice, you’re welcome to ask btw.
this is not a flashed out answer to your comment but, i think he covered just a part, if not a fraction of what "good" fan service can be and only that, and what we should hope for in general is that MORE people on yt talk about fan service, sharing their opinion on it and make the topic florish, and is why maybe his essay may seem restrictive, but only because there is so much to say about it and he covered the most obvious part of fan service to make a point, which to a nice extent, he did, and you made a very fair point don't get me wrong, but i feel like this video doesn't necesserily cover the entirety of fan service but rather how it is seen in it's most common form. edit: I just realized i ended up making a somewhat flashed out answer lol.
@@johnsaltfresh5946 yeah I see exactly what you're saying, and I thought about that as I was writing, but I still wanted to make the point because I see that the "it empowers women" for the good fanservice stuff comes up a lot, not just in anime. I was just thinking it'd be really nice and refreshing to see a different approach to the subject.
@@tpfang56 exactly what I'm thinking!! I feel like I see the same point about it sometimes being empowering brought up way more often than any other perspective, and not many people addressing that it still is men writing sexualized women, even if it's in a good way. Also, send em my way!!
I'm guessing "wlw" is an acronym for "women [who] like women" (though you could just say lesbian) and "aot" is a typo of "a lot" rather than Attack on Titan
agreed. it’s so hard to find an anime that isn’t glossed with the same air of misogyny, with the women always being saved by the men and being sexualised. characters being saved by others or being sexualised doesn’t have to be misogynistic and derogatory, but it always is because you’re reminded that as a woman you can never have the power or agency a man has.
YES. Guys don’t even *usually* conceptualize this because they don’t deal with seeing that kind of stuff everywhere, subconsciously telling you that you are not worth as much as a man. They can still watch it and have it be an escape. But when I watch an anime to “try and escape”, I’m just reminded yet again about how messed up things can be just because you’re born with a different organ. I like anime but this is actually what really puts me off of it. I want to use it as an escape too but when all you see is just more of what you hate in the real world, there is none. The ones that actually provide that for me are far and few between, and even then in some of those I find there are sometimes moments I have to look past to keep enjoying it.
@@HardFreckles I'm a guy and some of us definetely do realize it..and it's just as off putting for me as it is for you. Men and women are both stereotyped in most anime, usually the writer is male. I tend to prefer female writers in anime, they do a better job with both genders in my experience.
the best fanservice I have ever seen was probably in cyberpunk edgerunners. The naked scenes were so tastefully done. No woman/man abuse, no comedy, no punchlines. I even doubt its actually fanservice and more like mature scenes not intended for children cause they wouldnt understand the show anyways
Man, all the nudes in the show didn't seem nude to me at all because of the way they portrayed it. It was not exaggerated, just a girl walking naked having casual conversation. No over-the-top booba physics/animation, no unnecessary high-pitched moans. It really is made for an audience that won't dwell on those things too much and make a big deal out of it
@@psalm8306 wait what about the jumpscare-esque out of nowhere girl squirting while riding the guy in POV (first episode i think)? Was that not over the top for you?
it seems like fanservice in the way game of thrones does nudity. it's just there. they're just naked. the show doesn't oggle them or have many close up titty shots, characters are just naked because they were asleep, or in the bath. just like normal people.
As a person who does not watch anime (but has many friends who do), I find these videos very informative and interesting. I never realized that their was rampant sexual "fan-service" in anime (the only "fan-service" I've ever really noticed has been in movie franchises like the MCU and Star Wars, and is not sexual in nature).
This dive isn't deep enough. The root/source of the term fanservice is simply "service", or サービス as a loanword. While it does retain its original meaning, it has also become slang for "a little something something" or something "on the house", i.e. extra service. Go Nagai also had a manga older than Cutie Honey AFAIK called Harenchi Gakuen that was quite erotic. Also when talking about this topic, it becomes muddied and hard to figure out which parts are genuinely intended to be erotic and which parts are "done as a service to please fans", so now the word has lost its meaning, at least in a lot of circles. Like, I wouldn't call porn, softcore or not, or any kind of work intented to be erotic as "fanservice". The easy way to tell is if a front page or afterword panel or an extra panel added to a tankoubon release is of the characters doing a beach episode. Now that would be fanservice. A, "what people outside Japan would describe as ecchi" series, would be something like Ichigo 100% or Nana to Kaoru? Those two aren't "fanservicey", they're just straight up lewd. Finally, the "... how does that even happen" scene is a well known trope in Japan called lucky sukebe ラッキースケベ.
I think a lot of people can get put-off by fanservice, not because they're put off by all nudity in media, but because when they're watching a TV show, they're not looking for titillation. A lot of things like HBO shows or prestigious films have sexual content that's technically more explicit than what you get in most anime fanservice, but it doesn't feel like its purpose is to give the men watching it a boner. A lot of anime on the other hand, while not technically showing sex or explicit nudity, feels way more like its just trying to serve the same purpose as porn. Close ups on jiggling boobs or panty shots just feels like a strange distraction a lot of the time. It's worth saying it's not all anime though. Something like the Ghost in the Shell film has explicit nudity but it doesn't feel gratuitous at all compared to the shonen animes shown in this video.
my main problem with fanservice it that when done too much it just ...degrading ? like come on that shit clasified has mollestation , voyeurism and all , some time it can be okay but too much it loose it lewdness and "hhaha boobs" to just become insulting to me (as a viewver who enjoy watching a show if i want the other kind of show i have my links) and to the people that identify to the character (anyone who like them AS character )
My feelings exactly about Tamaki. I had to drop the series because It just became straight up degrading… like sorry I don’t find sexual harassment funny 😭 and it’s so overdone it’s not like a few scenes it’s like a thing, it’s her powers… it’s kinda disturbing
19:30 - This moment alone makes me want to watch the anime. But as you mentioned before, this is an exception to the rule of how fanservice is used in that anime.
The tonal dissonance comes from the fact that the creators don't expect horniness to distract from the herioic fantasy of the story; they expect that it's supposed to enhance it, which is mostly only possible if you see the character more as a sex object and a trophy to be won, rather than a person who has just suffered trauma and is emotionally distraught. The problem is that you have more empathy for her than the creators expected, but that's not your mistake. 😕
This is a very confusing claim. Why exactly is objectification and trophyism required for horniness to enhance a heroic fantasy in a given story? I don't understand why that's the case. Could it not just... enhance the heroic fantasy? I'm asexual, so I don't understand exactly how all this works, but wouldn't part of the allosexual heroic fantasy include having a super hot sidekick as opposed to one that... isn't hot? I don't see how the sexy-ification of characters requires trophyism (though I do see how it could be a frequent problem).
These stories are the individuals craft we cant change the way they view their characters so unfortunately this will continue for as long as we know anime. Humans complain but change rarely ever occurs. And its all our faults but we still wont do anything about it either, we are the reason the world is this way yet we complain so much. Its quite ironic. We live in the hell we created, there is no one but ourselves to blame.
This is not true at all. I can still see a character that is extremely sexualized and still treat them seriously. This is on the person, not the media.
Man i would really like to sit down with someone like him and just talk for hours idk if on internet or irl just the realization of another existence being capable to talk about any topic for undefined amount of time is just beautiful to think about. Really good prodution and editing, the sheer amount of work that went into this must have been huge big up. keep it up.
Fanservice is just like any other trope. It isn't innately positive or negative, it entirely depends on its execution. In some cases it can be a side notion, in other cases it can define the entire nature of the work for better or for worse. Some works would do better without it and some wouldn't make any sense if it was removed. For such a crass topic, it is surprisingly nuanced.
Welcome to my collection of high-quality media discussion and critique subscriptions. Engaging script, comedic digressions sprinkled in without feeling like they subvert the tone, and overall just a level of earnest passion about the discussion, regardless of the face-value absurdity that accompanies fan service from every angle. Good freaking job; I can't wait to watch more.
For me fanservice is intrusive when it becomes distracting, but it doesn't simply have to be tonally incongruent to do that. The more attention and time the direction of a scene pays to the fanservice, the more likely it is to pull me out of the show.
I haven’t finished fire force and i trusted this guy to not show me the name of the guy and he blurred the name out and avoided face contact and i gotta thank him. He’s worked so hard on this video and i gotta subscribe for the in depth explanation.
So something to consider about Tamaki from Fire Force. I'm pretty sure shes meant to be the trope of the "Iron Butt Monkey." This is a trope that comes with a lot of pain and hijinks to the character in question while not getting much in the way to development. The best example I can think of that most people know is Daxter from Jak & Daxter.
Just wanna say, the history of Ginnax is so wild, thank you for giving a very small sample of it. For an added bonus: if I remember right, before anime, they primarily worked in bootleg and fan games. I’m pretty sure this included the legendary Titenic, but that might be wrong lol also, yes, ALL of these games were pure, unadulterated, completely nude servings of service
this was a really nice video! i watched it with my brother, and it sparked us having like a 2-3h conversation about all sorts of stuff. not only that, but the video itself is very well written and engaging, and was well worth the watch :)
Dude, I laughed so hard at that Nord VPN Sponsor bit that you just gained a new Subscriber. Also great job on the video. I love learning the history and thought process behind movies/shows, directors, writers, composers, etc. Keep up the good work!
Man this video gave me so much to think about regarding anime fan service. Like you just glossed over it but that fact that magical girl anime often seem to cross the line into some form of nudity frustrates me and it starts to make sense considering the lines you can trace from them back to cutie honey. You also had a pretty strong stance about how fan service can be used well or poorly, which was provoking. But it still felt like a bit of a generalization. Like there’s probably been thousands of attempts in writing and video to address why some people (ie in America) are more comfortable seeing extreme violence and gore than skin or nudity. But it still felt like a bit of an oversimplification to say the whole community is being immature by not liking nudity in anime.
That’s something I’ve been wondering, why is it that America specifically has such a weird view on sex and nudity in general? Like it can’t just be because of the laws. Does it have to do with how Christianity and Christian values have seeped into every nook and cranny of it to where even if you’re not religious and do jerk off- you still have that sense of “it’s only okay in THESE specific circumstances”? What’s the root??
I haven't finished the video but I think some of the worst fanservice is when a female character is being seriously sexually assaulted and the "camera" starts framing everything like a straight up hentai It's trying to narratively portray something bad but it just can't help drool all over the scene
that and when they later in the series decided to make outfit unrealistic sexual (like a mini skirt that does not cover your but) and/or change a cool character into a idiot or sexual object. I forgot the anime, but I remember my favorite character going from badass to assshots in 2 to 3 seasons.
I'm probably beating a horse that has been dead for years now but this is exactly my problem with Goblin Slayer. I am not against depicting fucked up narratives in media. But sensitive topics like sexual assault need to be handled with care. "The" scene in Goblin Slayer was anything but that. The scene was uncomfortably prolonged more than it needed to get their message across with so much unnecessary detail. And the direction as well as the way the woman was animated in a way that feels more sexualized than horrifying. And I do went and go to read ahead in the manga and it isn't getting any better. Woman SA is an integral part of the plot and world-building it's almost like women exist just to be damsels in distress to be saved by the male characters while having the most horrific moment in their lives sexualized.
@@njcheddar It does bother me, but what bother me more is that all the girls are fighting to be the love interest of the goblin slayer. I am tired of this anime idea.
From what I've seen, sex and nudity in anime is never seen as intimate or a sign of trust. Sex is depicted and silly, lewd, and depraved. It's treated both as a punchline and as a gesture. Personally, I think sex and nudity in anime should be like the James bond films where they only happen if there is an actual scene of intimacy/intercourse, which never happens in anime.
I agree. I feel like Shoujo anime tend to treat sex and nudity with more care and nuance, and actually use it to move the plot or relationship forward.
Maybe this is just because I mostly watch old anime but like, every anime I watch has nudity used as symbolism for intimacy or vulnerability. Hell, some of the scenes are so famous they were ripped off by other equally famous western made movies shot for shot.
There's another anime I would have loved for you to touch on. The story revolves around wearing panties on your face and trying to spread awareness of sex in a world that forbids it. The entire point of the story is to show what healthy sex is. The villains are people who are doing nonconsensual sexual acts.
As a "not cis male" anime watcher my biggest problem with it is when it's very obviously non-consensual (like Tamaki). ESPECIALLY when the characters are clearly minors (middle and high schoolers often get this treatment) And seeing characters of my own deographic getting hypersexualised in these ways is extremely dehumanizing and feels very rapey. One example is the bathroom scene in Konosuba S1, I've genuinely never felt so uncomfortable watching an anime scene, and I've seen some messed up shit. Having a very real problem get used for laughs is degrading. But I've given up on shows like Fire Force solely because of the fanservice. I don't expect many male anime watchers to fully understand just how awfully this content can affect us, but I'd love to hear it be acknowledged as this kind of media trivialises things like assault and objectification.
@@SM-fs8vt S1 Ep9, In summary: MC purchases some kinda succubus service and is promised to be visited that night. He falls alseep in the bath and wakes up to one of the female characters, who's about to take a bath as well. He mistakes her for the succubus. I mainly just remember her being visibly uncomfortable the entire scene :// not even in a funny haha way
This was an excellent video. It really enforced what I had already thought of fanservice and its nice to see others share the opinion. If the fanservice is included with intent (I.e Food wars, Kill la Kill, Darling in the Franxx, Kakegurui, ect.) it doesn't really take from the work/show. Pointless and Overwhelming fanservice can really kill a scene. Its all in how its done. Kill la Kill remains one of my favorite Animes just because of how fan service is used along with its deeper meaning and storytelling. So what they show a bit to much, its purposeful and intended. Thank you for putting the work into this, this shall be added to my repertoire when trying to convince my friends to watch Food wars and Kill la Kill XD
@@Chaunwilkerson How? Would you force someone into watching what they don't want to if they're not into seeing frequent suggestive scenes? That's like pressuring me into watching Euphoria when that sexualised teen drama crap isn't my jam. As a straight girl, I'm not into fanservice of either sex. That doesn't mean I can't distinguish good stories that have fanservice in them. I'm just saying, if a show was filled with guys in Magic Mike XXL clothing, I'd close my laptop. It's just not for me, and that's okay. To summarise, be respectful of your friends' boundaries. If they're sensitive to gore, don't recommend a gory anime to them, even if you know it's good. Same with suicide, r*pe, etc. That's why I love & appreciate ppl who say "IF you like stories that have X thing/can handle it, then I'd recommend it.", instead of telling you to just "GO FOR IT IT'S AMAZING" without giving *any* heads up.
@@spaghetto9836 Oh, I misunderstood what you where saying for the annoying "no one's making you watch it" or the "If you don't like it don't watch it" arguments people use whenever you criticize something they like.
37:37 - THAT!!!! He's completely right, the number of characters that looking underage in some of these shows is skincrawlingly too often. Why the heck do they get drawn like that?
The problem with fanservice is the most of it is just sexualing children. It very rare to see a female character how is an adult that does not look like a child. Many people seem to not want to acknowledge this and just want to make excuses. People keep bring up kill la kill but the main character was a teenager girl that did not want to were the outfit. It kind of send a message that a girl has to sexualize herself just to get power.Japan have very lack law when it comes to SA. I
Tamaki's inclusion was supposed to be to make fun of overt, intrusive sexualization where it shouldn't be. Like how Mark Twain used the N-word a lot in Huck Finn to "depower" the word through repetition. But that kinda just felt like an excuse to do it a lot because he wanted to. So same thing here, really.
I'm so happy that you talked about Kill La Kill. Loved that anime, especially because it's not that standard fanservice, but things like Satsuki absolutely owning her appeal and nudity.
Fan-fucking-tastic video. Editing was top notch and the message to stop anime (and media in general) from being viewed negatively for including adult/sexual themes is fantastic. Good job dude!
Something I notice in all the clips featuring Tamaki is that she seems pretty mortified by being exposed in these ways. But, if this really is a curse that she's been afflicted with for God knows how long, shouldn't she be used to it by now? Shouldn't her coworkers? I think it could have present some interesting opportunities to have her be numb to her curse or even just begrudgingly used to it. At the very least, I think it would have gone a long way towards allowing the fanservice to exist without being so tonally dissonant. Honestly, that kind of compulsory embarrassment which is so common in anime fanservice scenes is a good example of the immaturity you refer to near the ending. The Ur example of this is the "walk-in" trope, where a character - usually a male - walks in on another - usually female - character and reacts extremely and often violently embarrassed. What always gets me about such scenes is the compulsory aspect of it, as if it were impossible for a person to react any other way. It's so ubiquitous that, when it is subverted in any way, viewers (myself included) almost always express relief that something different finally happened. It ultimately just comes down to how thoughtless most creators' treatment of sexuality is. They really seem to struggle with integrating sexuality into their characters in non-cliché ways, and allowing that integration to be informed by their a character's personality, rather than (what I can only assume) are deep-seated cultural notions about propriety and decency - i.e. Tamaki can't be too blasé about being exposed, or else certain viewers might become judgmental or disapproving, but that's opening a bag of worms I am not well-informed enough to open. Really, it's just disheartening to think that so many creators just seem unwilling to do anything interesting or unique with this subject matter.
Umm, no, at least that part about her trope as a cursed comic relief character, they are supposed to hate their fate and their resolution should be that they find a way to get rid of the curse, or find a way to no longer have to be around the things that cause the curse.
@@artorhen Well, that's what I get for talking about an anime that I haven't watched. Though, what I had in mind doesn't preclude Tamaki hating her fate. I was thinking of something like hating one's job or life situation, and the resulting coping mechanisms (both healthy and unhealthy) that inevitably result as a person tries to deal with something like that according to their personality and circumstances.
@@rayos_vt yeah, that to some level is lacking as well in her character development. And she doesn't have much of a final resolution either, in her situation, since it's not about being naked that is the problem, but rather that she gets sa'd by people due to her curse, it doesn't work for her to accept it and do nothing about it, that would pretty much tell the audience that there is no solution to lecherous behaviour and also encourage it, and that is pretty much her final resolution then she steps back and still doesn't have any cool moment when she actually fights anyone.
For me its not that theres stuff showing but the unrealistic portal and focus- As a female (and maybe its just me) i feel exceedingly uncomfortable in fanservice scenes-- they are jarring and break immersion but more so i relate to the female characters. Fanservice makes me feel like i am the one on screen being viewed and makes me want to hide. (I did grow up in a fairly religious and modest household which doesn't help). But ultimately i truly hate the weird breast physics and portrayal- again like i am being objectified and that other people might look at me that way Again that might just be me- its not like i speak for everyone but that is my problem with it Edit: i agree with all of your points and i dont think fanservice is inherently bad-- like that dude in fireforce who keeps getting beaten because of fanservice was genuinely funny for me and now i wanna watch kill la kill-- i just thought that might provide some helpful context from a female's perspective
Same as you! I don't like fanservice because I just know its to allure and make a series popular. How girl characters are given so much love and appeal to their designs while guys seem very typical in most fanservice series. And being older than highschool, i feel super uncomfortable with lewdness of like 15 year olds. But in spite of that, Kill la Kill was really great because I understood the satire and importance of fanservice as well as both female and male characters being created with much thought.
i have tried posting a comment several times now lol but I'm gonna hope it works this time. i really enjoyed your video and I appreciate your thoughts on it! i agree there is always a time and place for this, and you made a good example out of food wars. as a girl it's mostly how incessant and tone-deaf fanservice can get that rubs me the wrong way. i like to consume anime/manga as a form of escapism, like lots of people do, but it's upsetting to me that (often nonconsenual) fanservice is inserted Everywhere and Whenever, and is often dished out Only to women. just makes for a wildly uncomfortable experience!! but the fact that it's so common and so normalized makes it hard to curate my experience. i get the argument that shounen is meant for teenage boys but it's not a hard concept to grasp that people of all genders enjoy shounen nowadays. it's the most popular, gets the most coverage; doesn't feel right to alienate a certain demographic with distasteful and rampant fanservice. i'd rather watch fanservice from beach episodes and beauty contests than a girl getting beat within an inch of her life ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I definitely agree with everything you're saying. My opinion in the video will only ever be from the perspective of a man, and I even had more to say in the final parts of the video that I cut out at some point because I didn't feel I had the perspective to talk about it. The medium of anime is still overwhelming gendered and split, with very obvious attempts to gear shows towards girls or guys. And even though the audience for shonen is global and far reaching, they still have an attitude that it's just teen boys watching, and rarely ever consider any female perspective. And so fanservice has evolved unchecked into its own culture and tropes, which usually involve nonconsensual or blatantly dehumanizing scenes for laughs. That's why I can only hope to help start a conversation about this stuff. So hopefully more people like yourself are able to add perspective and get people to listen, and eventually shows can start to see more of those perspectives and broaden the narrow view of female characters they often have. Ideally instead of people just cheering on shows that don't have fanservice at all, we can see shows that do have it, but are respectful towards the characters. It's only by making it more known that these situations are uncomfortable to a large subset of people that we can let creators know to change what they're doing. Because teen boys will always cheer it on because of boobs anyway.
@@Lextorias thank you for such a lovely reply!! you’re already accomplishing your hopes of starting conversations, it’s really cool to see. hoping more people come to find your video very soon!! :y👍
@@INFERNO95 i understand that!! but times change. shounen anime remains the most popular across all kinds of people, not just the guys they often try to gear towards. i don’t think it’s a wasted effort to point out how certain aspects of shounen anime can alienate certain demographics or contribute to backwards ideas around treating women. it also feels gross to pass rampant fanservice as a “guy’s theme”, or to sweep it under the rug like it’s that trivial. i think it’s worth talking about. “romance and cute stuff is a female thing, battles and boobs are a male thing”
Your'e a really funny dude and I feel so sorry that the opportunity was missed for a transition lol, I can't hep the channel out much but I hope you succeed in your channel and in your life, stay safe!
Hey lextorias’ dad
He says hello
Among us
@@Dandaigaa God damn it
@@pizzacrumbles ErIs iS sUs LoL
Sus
multiple times during this video your couch looks like a censor bar for the background footage. Made me chuckle!
wait that was his couch?
The thing that really turns me off of fanservice is the recurring theme of “against their will”. SOOOO much fanservice in anime is women being exposed, groped, viewed, or straight up assaulted against their will, and it’s always played for lighthearted fun. Even shows where fanservice fun is the entire point focus mainly on girls being unwillingly sexualized, with male consequences (if any) portrayed as a simple punchline.
Female characters who are proactively sexual seem to be rare (not nonexistent, but heavily outnumbered by sexy girls who don’t want to be sexualized).
10000000% it's disgusting for the most part and people who unironically sit there drooling at it at are fucking weirdos imo
Yes but in most of those cases, the pervert doing those things are gonna get slapped across the face, kicked in the nuts, or send flying and spinning into a nearby wall.
Unless the offender is Yujiro Hanma…
That's due to the general air in Japan for several years now. Women got to a point where they were allowed to be something other than a housewife. So the desire for men decreased, they were less necessary. Then being sexually repressed (is that the word?), the men just get more and more into depravity. Which coincidentally pushes women away more. All this made worse by far too many expectations as far as school and poor working conditions, and you've got a looot of guys unwilling to grow up. Small wonder Japan has one of, if not the worst sex and birth rates. Like even when BDSM can become common fashion, with a big kink culture, pps are very dry.
Anyway yea, that's why the force and discomfort exists. A woman actually being interested or consenting is "unrealistic" to many Japanese viewers.
YES! This is the main reason why I don't like most fanservice! I feel like a lot of people think people have a problem with fanserbicebecause they have a problem with sexy things in general, when in reality, a lot of fanservice is just flat out sexual harassment or a camera ogling the cast without them doing anything sexual themselves. It comes off as really creepy, especially if you have been sexually harassed yourself (I haven't, but other people have). I have seen some anime where the female character is openly flirtatious/sexualizing herself rather than being sexualized, as well as the pervy camera shots showing that the MC is attracted to his love interest, both of which I have no issue with
This prob why Darkness from Konosuba is so refreshing to see because she was willing and proud horny and both of her characteristics r used for humor and fan service, and audience love her for it. It shows that it's not that impossible and bad to write willing horny female characters.
Kill la Kill was so ridiculous, wacky and fun. That I forgot the characters are all skimpy. Props to the Anime that made Sexy look actually Cool.
its also self aware and almost goes so far to make a statement about clothing in society. It feels tongue in cheek rather than doing it for views.
it was the first anime I ever watched lol I feel so nostalgic thinking back on that..... ima go rewatch it, its been a few years
@@dashman8499 yas
"Plot" vs Plot
@@RiskyRage for me it was the second one :) maybe i should rewatch it too, it's been so long
One of my favorite obscure facts about Evangelion, is that plug suits weren't originally going to be those skintight latex suits. But Yoshiyuki Sadamoto, the character designer, wanted to see the cosplays of girls in the tight suits. He mentions it in his art book, Der Mond. It just further shows how horny that team was.
based W yoshiuky???????///;//;./
that is... disgusting
Bruh aren't they like 14? tf???
if i remember correctly theyre like 16-18 (im pretty sure they wouldnt have put a scene of a underage guy raping an underage girl), but its still incredibly fucked up.@@yeetrepublic9142
Now I'm curious what ideas they had for the plug suits before they made them skintight.
Really liked the video.
It's encouraging to see more creators engaging with fanservice beyond the horny bad/horny good binary that this topic tends to encourage.
And thanks for the shout out!
I’m glad you liked it!
Your series on Kill la Kill was definitely what inspired me to take a deeper look at the whole topic. You voiced an opinion on that show I agreed with, but couldn’t articulate. So hearing your points allowed me to express my own on what I thought about fanservice as a whole.
Though it is honestly crazy how few videos there are actually talking about any of this. Hopefully more people can take deeper looks into the topic or share videos with nuance on it, because without scrutiny it can’t change for the better.
Sexy fanservice makes me cringe, it seems as if the anime/manga was written for/by incels and detracts from its story/artistry. If i wanted T&A, i'd just watch porn.
It's nice to see non-horny fan service!
True
It's too bad that this wasn't able to come out after studio triggers' new cyberpunk show
I genuinely laughed at the _"... how does that even happen"_ in the list of fan service. If there is one thing we know about anime its that it will never let physics get in the way of a good bit of fan service. Be it a breeze that only affect women's clothing to a fall ending up with the male protagonist's face in a crotch regardless of starting orientation or distance.
it does contribute to the plot eventually somewhat
I mean, from what I recall, that is literally a supernatural trait of hers
@quetzalpacheco Same idea. Like when people say anime doesn't portray realistic women. I think about that. Why would people look for realistic portrayals in anime (unless the series claims to be). Though that's just me. Probably because I just think of anime as just dumb fun most of the time and don't think about it too deep most of the time.
lmao i second this
I remember watching Kill La Kill and Ryuko being extremely embarrassed when she transformed. Throughout the show she learns to accept Senketsu and embrace her power growing as character. I don't know, seeing a lot of crazy fanservice in anime that just felt forced, it was pretty interesting to see the whole trope flipped on its head. Sits as one of my favourite shows because of it.
Still makes me uncomfortable how she was reluctantly forced until it, rather than it being her choice and becoming more comfortable on her own will.
I actually kinda like that aspect because it’s deconstructing the fan service trope to show that the average school girl would actually be really embarrassed by wearing an outfit like that. Mostly though that show just makes my breasts hurt every time one of the girls transforms because of the visual of the bust straps tightening hard across the breasts, that looks seriously uncomfortable.
@@cathygrandstaff1957 I think the embarassment should still be there, yes.
But, I think it should be her choice to wear the outfit, like "I know its super embarassing, and I will be mocked for it, but I need it"
Then throughout the series, she becomes more comfortable in her skin, instead of being forced to accept it.
@@cielbie8251 have you even watched kill la kill???
Bad fanservice bad, good fanservice good.
Am I wrong?
A whole deep dive into fanservice without even mentioning Highschool DxD, well played 👏👏
Or even saying the word "ecchi", if I recall correctly.
He does show a youtube screenshot with it in the title near the end. Still did well to only keep it to that
it's a little concerning, that I recognised it even when i didn't expect it@@Ethan-Entah
pretty sure boobs are the point of that show
thats not fanservise thats hentai
The real takeaway from this video is the beginning of the 'Lextorias sitting on a couch' arc.
It'll be the second most famous black couch on the internet
@@Lextorias "don't you mean first?" *remembers*
Should gradually change poses every video
@@Lextorias You should have provided fanservice yourself. At least a shirt with the word on it. 😆
I'm glad this video is doing numbers. Keep it up, man.
The last time fanservice seriously put me off was Fire Force. I’m no prude but something about the “against her will” element really turned me off to the point of finding it unbearable. the scenes with Tamaki border on sexual harassment as she is undressed and groped; She cries and feels humiliated. it’s not like it’s fun for her… I’m not usually too bothered by fanservice but I can say this one actually kind of disturbed me
the fanservice in fire force is such a shame cause it's such a dope story if you just...ignore tamaki as a whole lol
yeah i was actually really interested in the story and the fight scenes were super cool, i enjoyed watching the show but holy fuck i could not make it past tamaki. such a shame.
The Fire Force fan service is wild. While in Soul Eater (made by the same person) I have no problem with.
Yea I usually skip her scenes. Also she isn’t an important character from what I’ve seen so far so I have no problem fast forwarding. The only good scenes with her was like fight toward the end of the last season.
I think a good anime for you to watch with nothing like that is redo of healer
Wonderful video! As a girl, I do kinda feel weird about the whole “fanservice is a goofy moment”- idea, I believe that sex jokes def work but they can’t be the only joke in the show.
Being straight woman, I dont experience the horny, I experience the embarassment, harassment, and sexualization the unwilling girl goes through.
yeah, especially when the fanservice is only done to girls that are underage (or look like it)nd against their will. It dehumanizes them and in turn dehumnizes women in real life too
Can confirm 911 jokes are funnier they are unexpected aren't the same old joke they are just obscure references to the twin towers or to 2 planes hitting something in the weirdest reference is pretty unexpected.
Unlike sex jokes. Always boring. Always expected. Not very enjoyable.
@@Ghost-iv9dd Fanservice also happens to guys who are underage how is it different genuine question
@@Ghost-iv9dd this sounds like satire
I like how his background changes to the time of his video..beginning being sunny and the end being night
Ok this feels like the best place to explain the reason why I’ve always hated the “falls and accidentally gropes girl” trope, not because it’s overdone, but because that would be so painful. My first thought would not be to slap someone, but to shrivel up in pain.
So true! Honestly I'd probably start swinging not because of the grope but because hanging onto just a boob for balance seriously would be so painful! What do they think boobs are made of??
@@4swordsluver they straight up think they’re water ballons
RIGHT? If you fall, please for the love of God do not clutch my boob. It is not as stable as you think it is, I am not as strong as you think I am, and we are now both going to hit the floor and frankly you owe me an apology. If you can grab my boob, you can grab my shoulder. Alternatively, fall.
dude i always hated that shit, like why can’t you watch where you’re going. and WHY DO THEY GRIP SO HARD AND STARE AT HER BOOBS OR PANTIES???
Exactly! I never understood how it was supposed to be any bit pleasant for the female.
“Oh I’m gonna trip and fall and my hands are gonna squeeze your breasts so tight they sink into them.” Like ow, no don’t do that. Or the whole “Falling and face plants into underwear.” One? You’re just gonna head but her crotch
The sheer audacity of this man. I was 10 minutes in and thought, okay, that was a good summary, BUT THEN THE VIDEO JUST KEPT GOING
This level of depth for a topic like this is fantastic to see, we need more serious discussion on topics like this that are clearly massively popular and influencial in our culture, yet due to the nature of the topic no one is willing to take it seriously and find out why, or more likely, don't want to shame themselves by association with the topic.
Fascinating stuff all around, can't wait for your next video 'Top 5 Hentai Artworks That Belong In A Museum'.
Yeah. It was good clickbait that was more than I expected.
The video came up on in my recommendations. I watch anime videos a lot so not surprising. The thumbnail with big anime tiddies and the word FANSERVICE across them got my attention. The first 5 seconds made me like Lextorias' sense of humour. And then i got sucked into the level of genuine informative CONTENT this man has produced. Jesus christ. I love video essays about "weird" topics!
When reading the title and seeing the thumbnail I did not expect something so deep and thoughtful and yet so engaging. Its simply stunning how nuanced and deeply you were able to portray a topic like this and it seriously made me think. I also now understand, that I just didnt get kill la kill. Major props to your jurnalistic work. You, my man, have a gift. Please dont ever stop with content like this
Fun fact, a decent chunk of the buzz/hum impact sounds from Fire Force are just a really warped version of the "Bruh" sound effect
B R U H
ok so like why is fire force my favorite anime i can't watch?
That Sponsor fake out was way funnier that it had any right to be. You’ve got yourself a new subscriber!
I was like, "Oh well, here comes the- THAT'S SO SAD"
Had me in the first half and subbed too 💯
The fake ad juke was glorious, subbed.
Also I've ran into nude calendars locally as well, some for firefighters raising money for their station and one for college girls into the outdoors raising money for... body positivity? It was entirely organized by women and was very weird to hear my friends proud of participating in it.
Lots of people sexualize things, not always on purpose, for many reasons like to raise awareness or popularity and it speaks to the darker aspects of human nature that it's seen as okay at all let alone certain situations.
I took 3-4 years of classes and got certified until deciding to not follow up on firefighting. The calenders being one of the reasons why I quit. Even my own family would make odd comments on my ‘figure’
Some of the guys are ok with it, but eugh
I think Panty and Stocking is a grear example of "Good Fan service" since it's inspired by Adult cartoons and it's a comedic show
I think it says a lot that you have people absolutely hounding over the women in series like Attack on Titan and Chainsaw Man, despite them having comparatively little fanservice. This is of course due a lot to their tone and target demographic being different, but I think lessons can be learned from this about how fans appreciate strong and interesting characters with big tits more than just big tits.
"Comparatively little fanservice" in chainsaw man?? Chainsaw man has ALOT of fanservice... it's just the fanservice is different than fanservice in other mangas.
@@freedom1667 i can only think of 2 chapters that might be considered fanservice in CSM which is the end of that whole bat devil arc and reze's bomb devil design but even then, except for reze's devil design, everything else can be considered as part of the plot since it ties into the character of denji and how he is.
@@icantthinkofagoodnameso1954 [Disclaimer: I'm currently reading it and am therefore only around chapter 55] At first I thought you were 'wrong' in some way. Of course CM doesn't show naked skin - except reze's pool scene - but it is kinda explicit in terms of teasing and intimacy... and I think some people would call this fanservice. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that it is all connected to the plot. Denji's 1st motivation was to touch boobs. Why? Because he is a teenage boy. This is the premise we start with, the motive that keeps Denji going. And later Power, a demon without the same perception of feelings and sexuality as humans have it, uses this to teas Denji. Makima on the other hand uses it to manipulate Denji. Reze's nudity is part of Denji's development as a character and as a teenager and also part of her character. And let's not forget eyepatch girl that also uses it to motivate Denji and as a comedic element.
So yeah, I would not only say that the fanservice is non-explicit, but would go further and say that it is well used and integrated in the plot and story :)
Well WIT's art style did make all the female characters in AOT look way more beautiful than in the manga, but I get your point.
@@grey_m0nkey218 I take issue with your use of the word "kinda." CSM is VERY explicit about the sexual tension between characters. Whether or not someone counts this as "fanservice" depends on their own definition of the term. It may not be nudity, but I agree that the teasing scenes do give the audience a boner.
I'm going to talk a bit on how the teasing and secual tension helps the story. The story centers around Denji, a somewhat good natured and derpy teenager, being thrust into a very dark and grueling adult world. Many of those adults take advantage of him as a teenager, utilizing Denji's horny and impressionable nature to try and manipulate him for their own ends. This leads to the large amount of sexual tension as Denji slowly explores his own sexuality, desires, motivations, and many other factors as he grows up. This is literally a coming of age story being told in the most gritty manner possible, and a teenager learning to accept and deal with their horny nature is a necessary part of any of these stories. This is especially true for Denji, who, up to the beginning of the story, has had very little to observe in terms of people on which to model his own take on relationships. Now he is suddenly getting many different role models, love interests, and what not shoved into his face, and we get to witness his struggles with such things.
And this isn't even talking about the other half of the story about the nature of devils, fear, and the supernatural elements of the world of CSM. What a fantastic story.
Maybe this is just me, but I usually dislike fan service in animes because a lot of times it’s women in embarrassing/ humiliating situations - it’s never done to make them feel cool or be in power (I’ve only seen it to be the case in rare situations). I would feel so much comfortable if they were fine with it and enjoying themselves. Many times they’re shown as innocent beings who’re not realising they’re turning the guys on by accidentally flashing them their underwears etc. Honestly, I just want the women who’re doing fan service to do it because they want to and feel like it, and I want their characters to have their own arch’s and be well developed and not there just for fan service. Erza from fairy tail was my favourite character because of this while I hated Lucy.
That’s exactly why I like fan service. I’ve always wanted to walk a chick like she’s a dog and I know there’s other chicks into it. Just not mine I haven’t told her about my demeaning kink because she’s super Christian and I’m not.
Fan service just makes me uncomfortable and feels utterly pointless
@@SCP--kr5pd dude what
I think when you were contrasting Kill la Kill to Fire Force you hit the nail on the head for me for what makes me totally chill about fanservice vs not liking it. As a woman who's watched hundreds of series, I went through a phase where I didn't mind fanservice at all because I was so desencitized to it, to it being incredibly annoying, to now trying to look at it in a more balanced way.
The two things that break fanservice for me is consent and tone. Fan service for comedy or in romance shows is perfect. Not when it interrupts really impactful moments. But consent is the biggest element to me now.
Consent is why I loved Dress Up Darling and why characters like Yoruichi from Bleach are amazing. Consent is why I thought Food Wars was genius when I first saw it. And consent is why I don't want to put up with ecchi shows that cheaply disrespect their characters.
Yeah, I have nothing against it for comedy shows unless it becomes too repetitive :/
“Cheaply disrespect their characters”
“Consent”
They’re cartoons
@@InkfinityOkamix3 dude you have a playlist dedicated to kagamine rin
@@rextgun2613 is literally from when I was 13
It’s not about the cartoons-and if they were just cartoons, you wouldn’t care to be defensive over it. It’s about what impact it can have on a select audience to repeatedly show them that it’s okay and even funny to basically sexually assault women.
It’s also that, I dunno, maybe people might be sensitive to things like rape and sexual assault being treated like a joke? Y’know…the way it often is in real life? Something something art imitates life, life imitates art? Just a thought.
And I mean, yeah, I dunno. I believe if you’re someone who is serious about your art and the story you’re trying to tell, there is such a thing as disrespecting/undermining/compromising your own vision with cheap gimmicks.
Good video! I AM a bit disappointed that you don’t get into the probably the biggest reason people hate fan service: consent and intent. Literally nobody complains about Julia or Faye from Cowboy Bebop dressing sexy. They presumably chose their own outfits and are grown ass ladies expressing their own sexuality. Even Dress Up Darling is about a girl choosing to dress sexy.
But 90% of anime fan service is done in spite of the characters wishes in ways that often parallel uncomfortable ways girls/women are sexualized against their wishes in real life. It’s not fun for female watchers or even just like me who wishes to see boobs without feeling like I’m party to SA. Ugh.
Edit: spelling/autocorrect
Also, Faye's skimpy outfit matches her character. She is a femme fatale who weaponizes her sex appeal to get what she wants.
@@hoangquanle3310 I mean, yeah, that but also she’s a huge dork and a sleezeball! The ‘femme-fatale’ trope can be a little overused in of itself as just an excuse for fan service of its own kind…
But I mentioned Feye because Bebop is SO good at character
@@DOOMsword7 Good point
I wouldn't say that's the _biggest_ reason, in the sense of it being the main reason for the majority of folks who dislike it. Not even by a long shot. Now, I'll concede that it's _the most important_ reason for a certain demographic that needs to constantly virtue signal lest they get thrown under the bus by the company they've chosen to keep. But for the rest of us normies, it's really about the incessant immaturity of the whole thing. A constant barrage of ridiculous, unrealistic, contrived situations leading to sexually awkward moments may have appeal to the younger crowd, but it's humour on the same level as poop and fart jokes. Which I'd hope anyone has outgrown by the time they're out of high school.
Consent is a bitch ass thing✋🙂↕️
Can I just say that the fanservice for male characters is totally different than the female characters that I wouldn't really call it fanservice? You'll never see a male character get accidentally "groped" and feel humiliated for it. Or male parts jiggle and a close up of their skintight bums while their faces blush? It ain't sexy, it's just a trip to the local gym lol. I want better fanservice for male characters, truly.
Yeah, some people love to argue that men are equally sexualized because some appear shirtless or muscular like in dragon ball, as if that's supposed to cater to women in any way
It's because people express their satisfaction differently due to nature.
Women typically have visually softer bodies, of course grow in such a way due to potential motherhood, leading to maternal instincts and how babies react to their mothers bodies, which naturally follows us (and gets exaggerated) into adulthood.
Men's bodies on the other hand are built differently from women, since the natural stereotype is that we're typically the iron walls since we're stronger.
Now imagine that kind of jiggling around on a man. That wouldn't be taken in a way that can be read as maternal baby fat that a woman has and by extension perfectly fit for parenthood. That would be taken as a man being lazy or unfit.
@@mrdoctorjr6999 Well, you don't control who's allowed to like your work and for what reason.
@@mrdoctorjr6999 They're made specifically for *teenaged boys*
The male fanservice you want is generally relegated to yaoi hentai. Oh, and bara. It's less common, but, when it does appear, it's like there's an unspoken rule of how it's either non-existent or dialed up to 100. There's no chill.
In reference to mrdoctorjr: If you'd quit bringing up something like DBZ, we'd get somewhere. Shows like Free!, Diabolik Lovers, Black Butler, Dramatical Murders, Fushigi Yuugi, Yona of the Dawn, and Hakuouki are more honest examples, and they've been cropping up more and more. It appears to mirror the increase of female manga/anime viewership in Japan. Anime, game, and manga producers want to make money, and try and organically react to fluctuating consumer base in order to make said money.
Fun fact… I got my mom into anime when she was really sick one time, and I set it her up with my crunchy roll account with a few recommendations. She ended up eventually watching “food wars” and it is now her favorite anime 😂😂
oh noo...
Bruhhhhh my mom would commit crimes against the anime industry if she watched Food Wars. Catholic moms go crazy I guess
i mean food wars is half dudes exploding so it makes sense
insanely based
nah dawg 💀
A while ago I thought of a joke idea of a magical girl show where everyone's powers were based off of kinks and fetishes. But your discussion about Kill La Kill really makes me want to pursue this as an actual story idea, as I feel like there's a lot of potential.
Isn't that Panty and stockings the anime?🤔
Darien that sounds really cool
Highway Star from JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure Part 4 is basically the foot fetish power
Totally spies lol
@Kusuo's secret gf i thought kusuo was gay
My problem with a lot of the fanservice i see is that it's basically assault treated like a joke, and when you identify with a female character to see them being treated like that and made fun of... It's not funny, it reflects how you're being viewed as a whole, and it sucks. sure it can be fun and cool, but most of the time it isn't
Shoujo, Seinen and a couple of other Anime genre’s do the fanservice where that doesn’t happen to the Female character where she’s not an assault joke, they either have agency in their sexiness or the show don’t have any at all particularly Seinen Anime’s, so it sounds to me you gotta stop watching what’s popular or mainstream and try venturing out.
Incorrect. The problem is you're a tourist and need to go home.
Dude opinions cant be incorrect@@thisisobviouslybait
@@thisisobviouslybait Admit you're a guy who knows nothing about living as a woman without admitting it
This is my problem with a lot of anime as well. I want to like anime, but it makes it really hard to like. Now that I'm learning about some of the different genres, I'm going to try and branch out. Shout out to Skye2993 I'm going to take your advice.
The closest parallel i can think of is how jump scares are percieved in horror media.
While there is more developed opinions around jumpscares i think its due to it not being tangled up with cultural hangups.
I will note that theres plenty of points where eva has had criticism over it fanservice despite most of it being plot relevant or grounded. For example in episode 23 where rei is being corrupted by the angel the fanserice there is used to show the very personal violation happening in the scene.
The jump scare analogy is great. I think big scare moments in modern horror movies would classify as a type of fanservice. So that’s an excellent parallel
A jumpscare in a good horror film like say The Shining, Psycho, and Get Out is always appreciated.
Well then it’s not fanservice
@@FrogEnjoyer17 There are always deliberate decisions in the presentation of a scene that can even make plot relevant occurences fall under fan service.
As someone who doesn't watch any anime, you've gotten me to watch a full video about anime and be properly interested in it for every frame.
Bravo to you, sir.
Welcome to degeneracy 😀👍
That's me as well.
It was this video and the "why did horror games stop being scary" that got my subscription. I look forward to seeing more from you!
As 'Axel Beats' said: "People drop Anime because of Sex-Sells'. Its that simple.
i’m not a massive anime fan but i’m a woman and some people in my school happen to be anime fans. I find fan service frustrating because of how the people in my school behave in relation to it. i’ve been asked very invasive questions about my body in relation to anime or some kids in my school even think it’s okay to “accidentally” grope me and other girls. that’s what I find frustrating about anime.
Like Lextorias said in one of his other videos, I believe the one on waifus (paraphrasing here); anime is not to blame for what people who like it do, and this applies to most things in life. Responsible adults who like anime and are functioning members of society exist, and we're proof that those freaks who act upon their most primal, primitive instincts do so because of their own personal issues, not because of anime.
“I don’t care if age is just a number. That number is 911, you should be in F-ing prison” absolutely amazing line!
It looks like The Maid I Hired Recently is Mysterious (Saikin Yatotta Meido ga Ayashii) didn't get that memo unfortunately.
So Elaine from 7ds is fine because she’s over 1000 years old? 💀
This is my exact sentiment about the people who talk about Milim from Tensei Slime.
"That's you MF they are making fun of you" is second best
The "1000 year old loli dragon" trope absolutely needs to die. Personally I find the sexualizing of characters that either are or appear to be pre puberty viscerally the worst. Teenage characters that are drawn with more adult sexual characteristics are more of a gray zone, but good god can't everyone at least agree not to do fan service that could only possibly appeal to child predators??
I never watched fire force, but based on what was shown here I don't think any subversion of trope could've saved that tamaki character. her entire thing apparently is existing to be harassed "by accident" over and over again. so even in the scenes where this somehow makes her win a fight and makes her opponent look ridiculous, she's still being harassed and humiliated and dehumanised. she's the most exaggerated example of why I've been so turned off by anime for a while and still am very cautious with what I watch. they have to include a woman being harassed for laughs at least once in so many shows and it gets fucking old really quick.
Very true, I watch anime with my girlfriend sometimes and honestly it just ruins the show for both of us when there’s this sort of really uncomfortable fan service. I gotta go through anime beforehand before we watch it cause it’s just so awkward lol
I'm so glad that i dropped that anime on the vey first episode. What a waste of time.
@@velvetra29 ok tamaki is a very sore spot on the anime but other than her it's still an excellent show. every show has it's strengths and weaknesses and tamaki just happens to be one of its weaknesses. keep in mind it has many strengths.
@@flogchamp9530 Feels like i have to eat a pizza that have olives on top of it. It's so annoying that either i have to discard those olives by myself, or just suck it up and eat the pizza with the olives.
It's a darn good pizza, but the olives may ruin my experience.
THANK YOU 😭
The most offputting part of fanservice for me is when it’s inappropriately done to extremely underage looking female characters… and the quickest example I can give is No Game No Life
Yeah, I had to stop watching No game No life because I couldn't stand watching how much they sexualized the underaged characters.
@@arcadesrstillcool3778 I was able to ignore it because I had a lot of fun with the concept of that series and the animation was beautiful... but holy heck do i understand why people give up on it :(
K-ON. I love that show to no end but the way Sawako acts around these high schoolers is incredibly uncomfortable and I don't know how it got past the censors.
Or having fan service in EXTREMELY inappropriate moments. Best example I can give is Sword art online’s sexual assault scenes.
@@arcadesrstillcool3778 underaged charachter*, no more no less, only 1. Though yeah too fanserviced, like all the time Seph was on the screen and whenever. I only watched it cuz the concept was neat, it being determined by games and you didnt know what to expect. Believe it has fanservice aswell for it being targetted/output to japan n not westerners, we see fanservice often in top anime so it shows its working and people are degenartes. Having sexual desires are normal n sex sells, social media proves it by showing off their body with recent popular dances. im sry to inform thats just how the world works
You do a good job touching on a lot, the history was good to learn, and I liked the examples you used.
A point I was hoping to see explored more was Fanservice as Sexual Assault. You come close to it through other points but I feel it's a big part of the discussion and issues surrounding the topic.
F as SA usually comes up in darker "I'm 14 and this is deep" shows like Gantz and Mirai Nikki, but also is most of the fanservice in Berserk which is a fascinating example because it's an actually deep metanarrative comprised entirely of shallow elements. Even when F as SA serves the obvious purpose of villainizing a villain, it's often indulged to the point of gratuity and might as well have been any other crime for all the narrative weight and lasting impact it usually has. Where Berserk is able to distinguish itself is with narrative weight and acknowledging that only twisted and perverted people become monsters to begin with, which is enough to mostly validate the subtrope despite also making almost every apostle and monster a sexual organ with a face.
Berserk had weight to it in the initial arcs, but by the time we got to Rape Horse and The Trolls, any narrative weight flew straight out the window
kinda just feel like a kick the puppy moment to me
I never watched Fire Force, but from what was described in the video that one scene got me thinking.
16:30 What if, after her clothes get burned, the male character took off his jacket to cover her? To help Tamaki gain some comfort in her state of vulnerability.
That would have been fucking awesome.
@@RsVs2304disagree. It would actually be yet another example of pandering to the male fantasy of women needing mens help. And perpetuates the harmful stereotype of women being weaker than their male counterparts.
I think it also bears mentioning that a lot of the arguments against fan service aren’t against sexuality in media, but rather specifically, the objectification of women, and portraying sexual harassment as something that is funny or light hearted. I see a lot of people not realizing that watching someone being objectified, can make the viewer feel objectified.
And these people we call neets twist those words and turn it on us, trying to portray us as if we’re against the sexualization of women.
I don't really like how one sided it is, though. A woman can be shown wearing revealing clothing and that is considered "objectification", but a man can be shirtless, musclebound, even actively groped or sexually abused (hit to the nuts etc) and there is just silence about that.
@@_Lumiere_ You know damn well the subtle message of those two situations most of the times, don't act as if they are exposed the same way
@@_Lumiere_ Well, that would be a double standard, I guess.
But, it's 2022, those are a trend now.
@@broom9155 explain the message please
Not really. This is one of those situations where discussing something from within the fandom does a disservice to the complexities. In Japan, the concept of "service" predates anime and is everywhere throughout the culture. For example, before Cutie Honey we have idols, who are packaged and presented in a very similar way as anime. Especially in the 1970s, it was common for most female stars to present "fan service" in the form of nude or gravure photography. In the 1960s the film genre called "Pink film" started, where almost every woman had nude scenes, even if they were a major actor/protagonist. Within the world of adult entertainment, prostitution, etc, it's always been common practice to refer to these things as "service". The word is wildly used this way in Japan. "Fan service", is a slang that developed somewhat alongside anime, but denotes services which are done complimentary, or for free for the fans. And in Japanese we use this word all the time to refer to risky/suggestive things. Even 30 years ago it's normal ask a girl to give you "service" as a euphemism for perverted stuff. Explaining "fan service" in this way hyper focuses this to anime industry, when this is a wider, older and much more engrained cultural phenomenon in Japan. This is not anime, this is Japanese culture.
Very interesting, thanks for sharing!
Viewing things from only within their respective community easily leads to overlooking broader issues about the general culture (here, the sexualization of young girls and women).
A culture that treats women badly , I bet most of those actors and idols doing those nude shots were most likely only doing it because it was that or there career being over.
Japanese culture is a perverted culture.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. I would love to see a video essay about these wider issues if such a video exists.
This does a great job at providing the context we need to understand why anime is the way it is. And I’m glad you brought this up cuz anime culture didn’t pop up in a vaccume, it’s, to some degree, based on the cultural norms and understandings of the Japanese people. I think looking at it from the anime prospective can also be very helpful. Anime is the main by which man foreigner are introduced to certain cultural aspects of Japan, including the bad sides. And to focus on the anime prospective allows us to see it’s impact beyond the Japanese boarders.
First video I've seen of you, but it's like I'm watching an Ordinary Things video about anime. You have a very nice voice to listen to, don't devalue the information you're providing with unnessecary jokes, still manage to put some humor into it, and most importantly: did a lot of research.
Great vid! My main issues that I see with fan service is the impact it has on the story, the objectification of women, and the fact that it usually features underage girls. I'd love to see a part two of this vid focusing on the later since you talked extensively about the first here.
100% agree about tamaki. almost quit the show over her first "pervert" scene. i know other people get semi nude but they never "accidently" have hands laid on their genitals as a joke.
Ive seen a show go much further, so I was completely fine with it
You sound like a femeinist it’s a god damn cartoon just laugh and enjoy it or don’t watch it
@@toosmoofoyou there's times when lucky pervert BS can be funny and entertaining, but overuse and poor timing can really ruin a show. I happen to agree that the use in the examples detracted from what would have been a much better scenes otherwise
@@Phynellius It's just a matter of opinion anyhow, I don't mind it because I don't have a problem with it seeing as I'm fine with that type of humour. Different people view it different ways.
Cope
My issue with fanservice is that its usually teenage girls that get sexualized against their will, its rapey, mysoginist and pedophelic. I don't know if your examples fit into this but im fairly certain they do.
literally
Hmm yes a lot of garbage fanservice exists which does ruin the reputation for good fanservice
It's not pedophilic in the slightest. It's understandable to be put off with these tropes, but labeling fiction with something as serious as pedophilia is dangerous.
@@notpeace I see how labeling things as that might be removing the actual danger in real life, but there are a lot of pedophilic tendencies in many anime (ex. loli)
@@notpeace im just calling a spade a spade
on kill la kill: i used to have a classmate who at some point told me it was "embarassing to talk about anime in public" when i was chatting with another friend while waiting for his train. two months and a dose of kill la kill later the same guy was, in the same place, screeching about clothes being social oppression. everyone could hear him and he did not appreciate being reminded of his previous stance. still cracks me up to this day and it's one of my best high school memories.
i think the cyberpunk anime really emphasises the point you made at the end. it has nudity and sex, not being afraid to show the female character's tits, or the male character's bare asses, but it does so in a way that doesn't feel pandering. it just makes the show seem like it was made for adults, and made to be analysed with an adult's level of intellectualism.
I'd say it helps as well. Like when david and lucy as living together, their both fully nude yet their still keeping secrets from each other.
Ironically Studio Trigger (Gurren Lagann and Kill La Kill) also made Cyberpunk Edgerunners.
That Show was more targeted for senien.
This kinda reminds me of a fantastic scifi series called Farscape, where people would normally have sex lives even in outer space.
Imaishi is really good at using fanservice correctly. He also did Panty & Stocking which has a lot of fanservice and it makes sense there because the entire show is a vulgar Sex Comedy, and the two main protagonists know they're sexy, have active sex lives (Panty has sex with 1000 men) and sexualise themselves on purpose.
Your search history must be interesting after making this video. As always awesome video keep it up.
I did a lot of “research”
I've seen people use the term "perv pandering" to specifically refer to the sexual type of fanservice. I always preferred that term. It feels more accurate because as a fan, often those sorts of scenes feel like a disservice to me.
Yeah, sometimes the word fanservice is also used for just cool Easter eggs for fans who pay attention.
@@geschnitztekiste4111 Exactly! It helps to have a more specific word to differentiate it from that other kind of fan service.
It can be done tastefully, or it can be overdone annoyingly.
Ur probably just gay 😂
@@geschnitztekiste4111that or sakuga sequences
So I watched Kill La Kill because in one of Sega's Twitter Takeover events, Shadow the Hedgehog said it was his favorite anime. I'm glad that I did watch it, it's pretty deep if you dig past the surface
Your explanation of how Fire Force perpetuates fanservice negativity is perfect! I'm all for fun ridiculous fanservice, sexual expression, and sex positivity but when it's literally ruining the character's legitimacy within that world it's being done wrong. The other thing that becomes problematic in a lot of anime is when women are portrayed as unintelligent, always needing to rely on the male protagonist, or just not being capable in almost any capacity.
their should be a time and place for it and done in an appropriate way and without making the person into a sex objects and dehumanizing them
@@joshs7160 then she's a waste of screen time and useless.
@@joshs7160 Yeah, no. Undermining any and all development of a character for the sole purpose of acting as a vehicle for fanservice is just poor writing.
I mean... Women being portrayed unintelligent and always relying on the male lead is a problem in general... Unfortunately it's not just an anime thing
@@efgee9873 true but in anime its exceptionally bad
"...You should be in jail!" I did like to see someone try big boy!
Either way goo analysis video, I always didn't liked when fanservice becomes intrusive to the story or the only thing a character is good for on the entire run, but people just go all way against it like we are in the middle ages or something
And that's a time when everyone slept in the same room.
@@thehermitman822 and only had dirty clothes to wear.
My dad walked in when me and my brothers were watching fire force, but as opposed to any of the female fan service, he walked in on the nude calendar episode.
This was henceforth known as “The Fire Force Incident”
Why is this so funny :D
@@ivanpetrov5255 because one persons pain is another persons comedy
"The Fire Force Incident" 🤣
Very good video! Your description of the bad guy in Fire Force working through his weakness reminded me of Master Roshi in DBS realizing his pervyness was holding back his power and trained to overcome it.
overcome it
lol
People don't object to the sexualization per se. They object to the dehumanization. That's what this is really all about.
This.
Yup. This is exactly it.
adn the consumers of fanservice act through the latter. we all know these perverts dont see a human being.
@@lukasbade5919 i’m mixed on this because i mean anime is just art but also like the art is portraying the human physique so like but again i’m mixed on it
@@desklamp8591 But much fanservice is not being artistic about the human physique. It is not being used to convey meaningful themes, such as the fragility of the human body, or how deep rooted insecurity is born seeing our naked skin and always being uncomfortable with it, how scars and burns and imperfections can make you hate the body you have. It doesn't even try to convey the idea that the human body is beautiful in all its forms, and we should appreciate it as much as we can.
No, instead, it is juvenile. It's about butt shots, panty shots, thighs, breasts bouncing, clothes being removed or torn off. It is surface level horny baiting that isn't trying to be anything more. Most of the time, anyway.
My biggest issue with sexual fanservice in anime are more the ones where the "women" are incredibly infantilized (or straight up are young girls)... which, unfortunately is most of them.
Yea why is no talking about this. Like cool, hot women, but omg take these highschoolers out of these shows. Why are highschoolers tits bouncing!?
Yea I personally wouldn't mind fanservice if it was done to both genders equally like in Food wars
But its mostly female characters and especially underage characters which is why it can be both very annoying and sometimes uncomfortable to watch
It's a weird situation, because many of these manga are made for teenage boys, so they involve teenage boys and girls, but are written by adults.
@@Moon1tan this! most fan service is misogynistic bullshit. if it’s done to both genders properly, and it isn’t stupid, infantalising, or any of the other million bad things it could be then it’s fine. the food wars bit is a good example.
@@Moon1tandifferent demographics means one gender is gonna be sexualized more than the other
Personally I think that the “anime is trash and so am I” thing is not about fan-service and nudity, but about the bottom of the barrel filth storytelling that floods the medium, like Asterisk War, or Slave Harem in the Labyrinth of another world
Its an argument used to justify a lot of things. I’ve certainly seen it used for what you’re talking about a lot though, I agree.
It has the same energy as "you watch anime? But cartoons are for children!". I've been laughed at for FMA being my favorite anime. I made them watch this show about human experimentation, existentialism and genocide. All of a sudden "cartoons" weren'T just for children anymore.
I absolutely love anime with bad generic or bad story I’m gonna have to personally disagree.
@@MinqApoc
Gundam would like to disagree. God damn war crimes and senseless death galore. Yeah, definitely for children. Sure you got weird points in the original series, but if you show nothing but war even the audience would become desensitized. Gotta break up pacing.
@@MinqApoc Not sure if I would equate them or use them in comparison. "Anime is thrash and so am I" comes from within the community and it's a refusal to change or even think about the problem. It's by refusing to take fanfiction with maturity (often seen as "taking the joke too seriously") that a lot of anime give an accurate impression of being made to pander to immature people and otaku give an accurate impression of being immature.
Imagine the post nut clarity so strong, you start researching fan service and make a whole 42 min video
1:34 In the west, we wholeheartedly accept violence and brutality, but we censor sexuality.
In Japan, it is the opposite. they are cool with sexuality but heavily censor violence.
While there are exceptions on both sides, you'll quickly notice the general trend, especially with the always angry face protagonist found in the west.
Uh, you would be mistaken. Violence is generally uncensored in the majority of shonen that gets broadcast in Japan. The determining factor to the level of graphic violence is which broadcast slot the property is aired in.
This is very easy to observe when anime is localised - let's stick with an American audience (as different countries have different broadcast standards/tendencies) - the infamous "4Kids dubs" of Pokemon, Yugi-oh and One Piece should be proof enough, buy even older series like Sailor Moon and Dragonball/DBZ were heavily censored (unless they were aired during Toonami's Midnight Run, the precursor to Adult Swim).
@@StudyofSwords Japan does tend to censor heavy violence or gore when it comes to games and movies more so than anime from what I’ve seen or heard
@@StudyofSwords I mean like they do though have you seen the Resident Evil 2 Remake or Any violent game I don't even remember the anime about the cockroach people They do censor it But it's just random sometimes Or all the time I don't know you just have to look for it but i do know its especially in video games. Its to the point that Japan audiences usually buy American versions of the game just two get around that.
@@lonelywolf5659 This is really interesting, becuase you end up seeing somewhat similar occurences when it comes to eromanga/anime ("hentai" if you will), where owing to censorship laws (as well as publishing conventions) the "uncensored" versions of these properties are re-edited outside of the Japanese market.
@@StudyofSwords If you think the shounen broadcast are uncensored you should start reading manga lmao, this shit is uncensored.
Great video my man. When I saw your poll a while back Fire Force was actually my first thought. Because personally I almost always love fan service it's fun and well hot. I think for most complaints about it people either need to just relax, attractive characters or that type of humor is fine to exist, or just accept that the show isn't for them. However that big moment with Tamaki was among the first times I ever truly disliked a fanservice scene. I thought about how it took me out of the moment. Honestly it really reminded of how Marvel movies constantly inject comedy into the wrong scenes killing tension and the mood. I think the key to fanservice in most series is to think of it as comedy. If comedy wouldn't fit in this scene why the hell would tiddies? Dragon Maid can have fanservice everywhere because the show is just for fun and lightheartedness. A serious shonen needs to be smarter where it puts fanservice just as it would with comedy. Or it needs to be a primary plot point like you mentioned with Kill la Kill, Food wars, or High school DxD one of my favorites.
So yeah thank you for a more nuanced video on the topic that wasn't the usual tiddies good or tiddies bad there's no middle ground I usually see. Keep up the great work.
fan service is literally tamaki's curse 💀
It's ok for Dragon maid cause if's fun and light hearted but Fire Force is super serious? Did you even watch the show? Over half the show is joking around and being goofy. Serious moments are more sprinkled in than the silly fun parts. Every character has some similar comedic aspect to them that is played up during fights etc as well yet Tamaki's is bad. Be honest at least and say I didn't like it cause people on the internet said it's a bad thing.
@@thisisobviouslybait Bro relax. I never said Fire Force was super serious. I even like the Tamaki scenes in most of the rest of the show. They are funny and work great for the slice of life moments or for some of the big set up jokes. Overall I really like Fire Force. But you can't pretend that Fire Force doesn't have serious scenes and overall is trying to build some serious stakes for its ever growing conflict. Just like almost any other shonen. It having jokes like Arthur being a dumbass doesn't suddenly make it comedy. When Arthur is dumb in a fight, while funny, is played straight and serious. It is funny while being tonally consistent. His fights are rarely put on pause to make his jokes, they flow. Tamaki having her mentor betray her, children dying, and her to be beaten only to suddenly have "oops tripped into boobs" is not tonally consistent. The serious emotional payoffs of Shinra being Tamaki's new hero are disrupted by a joke. The action and emotion are put on pause so we can flounder around for a joke. Tamaki vs Assault the joke doesn't pause the action or emotion. The entire scene is a set up for the joke and it ends when she beats him. It isn't just randomly placed in the middle of a fight. Overall with Tamaki that early moment is the only scene I have a serious problem with. Shes great for the majority of the rest of the show.
Dragon maid on the other hand is almost a purely light hearted slice of life. Jokes and fanservice can fit almost anywhere. But during its few serious scenes like Tohru's dad trying to take her away they don't interrupt it with jokes or fanservice. These interruptions are what I take problems with. Not the fanservice itself. Love tiddies.
@@DrunkenSpartanProd The other silly shit that happens during serious scenes is fine though like anything with Authur
@@thisisobviouslybait Yes. Arthur's jokes like suddenly remembering he's left handed doesn't pause the action or the drama. The fight starts and continues with him losing and building tension till he realizes what he's doing wrong. Then he proceeds to win. It's funny and concludes the action. The scene doesn't pause the fight for Arthur to scratch his head and pace around wondering why he's losing for him to then go "aha". The action and joke flows. Tamaki's early scene comes to a screeching halt to make tiddy jokes. It has to work organically and flow with the rest of the scene. Arthur's work because they flow well. Even later Tamaki stuff flows well. That first Tamaki scene with her mentor and the children just doesn't work well.
Agreed 100% with everything in the video. Not to get rid of fanservice, just on how to use it well.
One thing I should note though is that a ripped guy character being shirtless isn't necessarily considered fanservice to women (or bi/pan/straight women I should say). Things such as a man's voice, hands, personality, and pose and the ways those elements are used are what I would argue constitute fanservice for women, or at least to a higher regard. A good example of this would be Yang from Piofiore: Fated Memories with his voice specifically being pointed out as the reason otome players gravitate towards him (and ignore his murderous tendencies LOL).
There's also the fact that a lot of the time in shonen scenes where a guy becomes shirtless, when it's not a display of power/awesomeness for the boys watching to feel powerful or to see that this guy is strong, it's typically in the context of comedy where we're meant to laugh at him or at the scene/situation as a whole, not to be excited or aroused by him.
I don’t think that’s true since you are discussing shirt ripping as a comedy meme; but it was so common that that it became the trope so that now it is done in comedic way. But honestly; I can’t think of a single movie with a real person, or an anime that does what you suggest and does it for comedy.
Also as an asexual robot; other humans are gross. Why all the shirt ripping and nudity at all?
Also stop heterosexual couples in stuff while you are at.
Humans; ick.
I agree about the shirtless dude not necessarily being fanservice material aimed at women! So many people bring up shirtless dudes, when the topic of overt sexualization of female characters come up. Shirtless men in mainstream media are rarely there to be gawked at.
I'm glad you brought up Piofiore, because otome tropes are a good example on how fanservice aimed at a female audience really is. Sure, there are shirtless scenes and tight, sometimes downright ridiculous outfits (for example whatever Loki wears in Kamigami no Asobi), but there is so much more! Fanservice aimed at women is just as diverse and fanservice aimed at men.
The problem about fanservice is that this kind of fanservice is often *for* men. So are women really being empowered? Or are men just applauding for women being naked and trying to rationalize it?
Exactly, the female characters who are pure fan service are never empowered. They get their clothes "accidentally" ripped off, or a guy stumbles and falls into their insanely large boobs, they get groped and touched against their will, and it's always clearly shown that either the female character is embarrassed while a male character is ogling her or that she actually likes this disrespectful treatment. It only serves the male audience, there is no empowerment for women when it comes to fan service.
Although it's nice to see empowerment through sexualization every once in a while, I wish that wasn't the ONLY form of empowerment that gets talked about when it comes to anime. As a woman who's male friends watch a lot of anime, I'm very picky with what I watch because the way women are generally depicted in shows. Not just the sexualization, but the lack of meaningful stories, the lack of detail on the woman experience, the lack of the woman perspective on relationships. I don't want the only shows that empower women to be through extreme fanservice that they are aware of, although those shows themselves are good.
I agree with including fanservice in a good way, and a big part of that is through the equality of it and "not just the hot girls" like you said for food wars, and fanservice that also fits the tone of the story.
BUT! I dislike the disregard of it being male pandering because definitely, most of time, it's only for men, or maaayyyybe wlw. As a woman, seeing jiggly boobs, even in a "good" way, throughout the entire show without anything coming from the opposite sex, is unappealing. It's fanservice for male fans, not fans in general.
I'm not against nudity in shows, live action or animated. But for say, live action fantasy shows showing misogyny through overused explicit rape scenes, I still don't appreciate it.
I think this video essay would have been a lot more insightful if it delved deeper into a woman's perspective on anime. Throughout the entire thing, women's perspectives and psyche are talked about as a hypothetical, a concept, a mystical idea that takes aot to understand, but not a simple, real thing that can be put off by these shows.
If you ever do a part two, I'd love for you to feature a woman who is an anime enthusiast where the two of you can have a discussion on this topic.
Is extreme but self aware sexualization always empowering? Even if the fanservice is good for plot, is it still fun for a woman to watch a bunch of jiggling boobs on screen? Definitely feel like this was a huge missed topic.
Well said. There’s a lot more that can be said about fanservice combined with the role of female characters and how the fanservice only serves to further diminish weak writing of girls and women in these narratives written by men.
If you need any recs for anime with little-to-no fanservice, you’re welcome to ask btw.
this is not a flashed out answer to your comment but, i think he covered just a part, if not a fraction of what "good" fan service can be and only that, and what we should hope for in general is that MORE people on yt talk about fan service, sharing their opinion on it and make the topic florish, and is why maybe his essay may seem restrictive, but only because there is so much to say about it and he covered the most obvious part of fan service to make a point, which to a nice extent, he did, and you made a very fair point don't get me wrong, but i feel like this video doesn't necesserily cover the entirety of fan service but rather how it is seen in it's most common form.
edit: I just realized i ended up making a somewhat flashed out answer lol.
@@johnsaltfresh5946 yeah I see exactly what you're saying, and I thought about that as I was writing, but I still wanted to make the point because I see that the "it empowers women" for the good fanservice stuff comes up a lot, not just in anime. I was just thinking it'd be really nice and refreshing to see a different approach to the subject.
@@tpfang56 exactly what I'm thinking!! I feel like I see the same point about it sometimes being empowering brought up way more often than any other perspective, and not many people addressing that it still is men writing sexualized women, even if it's in a good way.
Also, send em my way!!
I'm guessing "wlw" is an acronym for "women [who] like women" (though you could just say lesbian) and "aot" is a typo of "a lot" rather than Attack on Titan
watching as a woman kinda hurts cuz its like “oh shit sorry I forgot we’re objectified” like lmao i’m watching this to escape not to be reminded
agreed. it’s so hard to find an anime that isn’t glossed with the same air of misogyny, with the women always being saved by the men and being sexualised. characters being saved by others or being sexualised doesn’t have to be misogynistic and derogatory, but it always is because you’re reminded that as a woman you can never have the power or agency a man has.
what the fuck
YES. Guys don’t even *usually* conceptualize this because they don’t deal with seeing that kind of stuff everywhere, subconsciously telling you that you are not worth as much as a man. They can still watch it and have it be an escape. But when I watch an anime to “try and escape”, I’m just reminded yet again about how messed up things can be just because you’re born with a different organ. I like anime but this is actually what really puts me off of it. I want to use it as an escape too but when all you see is just more of what you hate in the real world, there is none. The ones that actually provide that for me are far and few between, and even then in some of those I find there are sometimes moments I have to look past to keep enjoying it.
@@HardFreckles I'm a guy and some of us definetely do realize it..and it's just as off putting for me as it is for you. Men and women are both stereotyped in most anime, usually the writer is male. I tend to prefer female writers in anime, they do a better job with both genders in my experience.
@@ninototo1 fma and has a 2 scenes of fan service in the entire show
the best fanservice I have ever seen was probably in cyberpunk edgerunners. The naked scenes were so tastefully done. No woman/man abuse, no comedy, no punchlines. I even doubt its actually fanservice and more like mature scenes not intended for children cause they wouldnt understand the show anyways
whether it was fanservice done intentionally or not it sure did stir stuff LOL
Man, all the nudes in the show didn't seem nude to me at all because of the way they portrayed it. It was not exaggerated, just a girl walking naked having casual conversation. No over-the-top booba physics/animation, no unnecessary high-pitched moans.
It really is made for an audience that won't dwell on those things too much and make a big deal out of it
Based. I want fanservice to mean something for the story.
@@psalm8306 wait what about the jumpscare-esque out of nowhere girl squirting while riding the guy in POV (first episode i think)? Was that not over the top for you?
it seems like fanservice in the way game of thrones does nudity. it's just there. they're just naked. the show doesn't oggle them or have many close up titty shots, characters are just naked because they were asleep, or in the bath. just like normal people.
As a person who does not watch anime (but has many friends who do), I find these videos very informative and interesting. I never realized that their was rampant sexual "fan-service" in anime (the only "fan-service" I've ever really noticed has been in movie franchises like the MCU and Star Wars, and is not sexual in nature).
This dive isn't deep enough. The root/source of the term fanservice is simply "service", or サービス as a loanword. While it does retain its original meaning, it has also become slang for "a little something something" or something "on the house", i.e. extra service.
Go Nagai also had a manga older than Cutie Honey AFAIK called Harenchi Gakuen that was quite erotic.
Also when talking about this topic, it becomes muddied and hard to figure out which parts are genuinely intended to be erotic and which parts are "done as a service to please fans", so now the word has lost its meaning, at least in a lot of circles. Like, I wouldn't call porn, softcore or not, or any kind of work intented to be erotic as "fanservice". The easy way to tell is if a front page or afterword panel or an extra panel added to a tankoubon release is of the characters doing a beach episode. Now that would be fanservice. A, "what people outside Japan would describe as ecchi" series, would be something like Ichigo 100% or Nana to Kaoru? Those two aren't "fanservicey", they're just straight up lewd.
Finally, the "... how does that even happen" scene is a well known trope in Japan called lucky sukebe ラッキースケベ.
I think a lot of people can get put-off by fanservice, not because they're put off by all nudity in media, but because when they're watching a TV show, they're not looking for titillation.
A lot of things like HBO shows or prestigious films have sexual content that's technically more explicit than what you get in most anime fanservice, but it doesn't feel like its purpose is to give the men watching it a boner.
A lot of anime on the other hand, while not technically showing sex or explicit nudity, feels way more like its just trying to serve the same purpose as porn. Close ups on jiggling boobs or panty shots just feels like a strange distraction a lot of the time. It's worth saying it's not all anime though. Something like the Ghost in the Shell film has explicit nudity but it doesn't feel gratuitous at all compared to the shonen animes shown in this video.
EXACTLY
"It's not porn, it's hbo!"
my main problem with fanservice it that when done too much it just ...degrading ? like come on that shit clasified has mollestation , voyeurism and all , some time it can be okay but too much it loose it lewdness and "hhaha boobs" to just become insulting to me (as a viewver who enjoy watching a show if i want the other kind of show i have my links) and to the people that identify to the character (anyone who like them AS character )
My feelings exactly about Tamaki. I had to drop the series because It just became straight up degrading… like sorry I don’t find sexual harassment funny 😭 and it’s so overdone it’s not like a few scenes it’s like a thing, it’s her powers… it’s kinda disturbing
19:30 - This moment alone makes me want to watch the anime. But as you mentioned before, this is an exception to the rule of how fanservice is used in that anime.
The tonal dissonance comes from the fact that the creators don't expect horniness to distract from the herioic fantasy of the story; they expect that it's supposed to enhance it, which is mostly only possible if you see the character more as a sex object and a trophy to be won, rather than a person who has just suffered trauma and is emotionally distraught. The problem is that you have more empathy for her than the creators expected, but that's not your mistake. 😕
This is so true!
This is a very confusing claim. Why exactly is objectification and trophyism required for horniness to enhance a heroic fantasy in a given story? I don't understand why that's the case. Could it not just... enhance the heroic fantasy? I'm asexual, so I don't understand exactly how all this works, but wouldn't part of the allosexual heroic fantasy include having a super hot sidekick as opposed to one that... isn't hot? I don't see how the sexy-ification of characters requires trophyism (though I do see how it could be a frequent problem).
These stories are the individuals craft we cant change the way they view their characters so unfortunately this will continue for as long as we know anime. Humans complain but change rarely ever occurs. And its all our faults but we still wont do anything about it either, we are the reason the world is this way yet we complain so much. Its quite ironic. We live in the hell we created, there is no one but ourselves to blame.
This is not true at all. I can still see a character that is extremely sexualized and still treat them seriously. This is on the person, not the media.
@@LordlyWeebYou treat them as people, but that doesn't mean the show does. It's more of a show problem, people exception.
Man i would really like to sit down with someone like him and just talk for hours idk if on internet or irl just the realization of another existence being capable to talk about any topic for undefined amount of time is just beautiful to think about. Really good prodution and editing, the sheer amount of work that went into this must have been huge big up. keep it up.
Fanservice is just like any other trope. It isn't innately positive or negative, it entirely depends on its execution. In some cases it can be a side notion, in other cases it can define the entire nature of the work for better or for worse. Some works would do better without it and some wouldn't make any sense if it was removed. For such a crass topic, it is surprisingly nuanced.
11:10 luckily theres a family guy
Welcome to my collection of high-quality media discussion and critique subscriptions. Engaging script, comedic digressions sprinkled in without feeling like they subvert the tone, and overall just a level of earnest passion about the discussion, regardless of the face-value absurdity that accompanies fan service from every angle. Good freaking job; I can't wait to watch more.
For me fanservice is intrusive when it becomes distracting, but it doesn't simply have to be tonally incongruent to do that. The more attention and time the direction of a scene pays to the fanservice, the more likely it is to pull me out of the show.
get yourself in kenja time more often. I'll be a lot less distracting
I haven’t finished fire force and i trusted this guy to not show me the name of the guy and he blurred the name out and avoided face contact and i gotta thank him. He’s worked so hard on this video and i gotta subscribe for the in depth explanation.
So something to consider about Tamaki from Fire Force. I'm pretty sure shes meant to be the trope of the "Iron Butt Monkey." This is a trope that comes with a lot of pain and hijinks to the character in question while not getting much in the way to development. The best example I can think of that most people know is Daxter from Jak & Daxter.
The real fanservice was the friend we made along the way.
But in all seriousness, this is a really good video. Keep it up!
Just wanna say, the history of Ginnax is so wild, thank you for giving a very small sample of it. For an added bonus: if I remember right, before anime, they primarily worked in bootleg and fan games. I’m pretty sure this included the legendary Titenic, but that might be wrong lol also, yes, ALL of these games were pure, unadulterated, completely nude servings of service
this was a really nice video! i watched it with my brother, and it sparked us having like a 2-3h conversation about all sorts of stuff. not only that, but the video itself is very well written and engaging, and was well worth the watch :)
Glad you liked it! And glad I sparked some conversation.
Dude, I laughed so hard at that Nord VPN Sponsor bit that you just gained a new Subscriber. Also great job on the video. I love learning the history and thought process behind movies/shows, directors, writers, composers, etc. Keep up the good work!
Man this video gave me so much to think about regarding anime fan service. Like you just glossed over it but that fact that magical girl anime often seem to cross the line into some form of nudity frustrates me and it starts to make sense considering the lines you can trace from them back to cutie honey.
You also had a pretty strong stance about how fan service can be used well or poorly, which was provoking. But it still felt like a bit of a generalization. Like there’s probably been thousands of attempts in writing and video to address why some people (ie in America) are more comfortable seeing extreme violence and gore than skin or nudity. But it still felt like a bit of an oversimplification to say the whole community is being immature by not liking nudity in anime.
That’s something I’ve been wondering, why is it that America specifically has such a weird view on sex and nudity in general? Like it can’t just be because of the laws. Does it have to do with how Christianity and Christian values have seeped into every nook and cranny of it to where even if you’re not religious and do jerk off- you still have that sense of “it’s only okay in THESE specific circumstances”? What’s the root??
I haven't finished the video but I think some of the worst fanservice is when a female character is being seriously sexually assaulted and the "camera" starts framing everything like a straight up hentai
It's trying to narratively portray something bad but it just can't help drool all over the scene
that and when they later in the series decided to make outfit unrealistic sexual (like a mini skirt that does not cover your but) and/or change a cool character into a idiot or sexual object. I forgot the anime, but I remember my favorite character going from badass to assshots in 2 to 3 seasons.
I'm probably beating a horse that has been dead for years now but this is exactly my problem with Goblin Slayer. I am not against depicting fucked up narratives in media. But sensitive topics like sexual assault need to be handled with care. "The" scene in Goblin Slayer was anything but that. The scene was uncomfortably prolonged more than it needed to get their message across with so much unnecessary detail. And the direction as well as the way the woman was animated in a way that feels more sexualized than horrifying. And I do went and go to read ahead in the manga and it isn't getting any better. Woman SA is an integral part of the plot and world-building it's almost like women exist just to be damsels in distress to be saved by the male characters while having the most horrific moment in their lives sexualized.
@@njcheddar It does bother me, but what bother me more is that all the girls are fighting to be the love interest of the goblin slayer. I am tired of this anime idea.
From what I've seen, sex and nudity in anime is never seen as intimate or a sign of trust.
Sex is depicted and silly, lewd, and depraved. It's treated both as a punchline and as a gesture.
Personally, I think sex and nudity in anime should be like the James bond films where they only happen if there is an actual scene of intimacy/intercourse, which never happens in anime.
There's one in Black Butler, actually.
I agree. I feel like Shoujo anime tend to treat sex and nudity with more care and nuance, and actually use it to move the plot or relationship forward.
The only cartoon that have stuff like this
Tokyo ghoul make character literally fucks his wife
Maybe this is just because I mostly watch old anime but like, every anime I watch has nudity used as symbolism for intimacy or vulnerability. Hell, some of the scenes are so famous they were ripped off by other equally famous western made movies shot for shot.
There's another anime I would have loved for you to touch on. The story revolves around wearing panties on your face and trying to spread awareness of sex in a world that forbids it. The entire point of the story is to show what healthy sex is. The villains are people who are doing nonconsensual sexual acts.
As a "not cis male" anime watcher my biggest problem with it is when it's very obviously non-consensual (like Tamaki). ESPECIALLY when the characters are clearly minors (middle and high schoolers often get this treatment) And seeing characters of my own deographic getting hypersexualised in these ways is extremely dehumanizing and feels very rapey.
One example is the bathroom scene in Konosuba S1, I've genuinely never felt so uncomfortable watching an anime scene, and I've seen some messed up shit. Having a very real problem get used for laughs is degrading. But I've given up on shows like Fire Force solely because of the fanservice.
I don't expect many male anime watchers to fully understand just how awfully this content can affect us, but I'd love to hear it be acknowledged as this kind of media trivialises things like assault and objectification.
would you mind explaining what the bathroom scene was? or giving the episode?
@@SM-fs8vt S1 Ep9,
In summary:
MC purchases some kinda succubus service and is promised to be visited that night. He falls alseep in the bath and wakes up to one of the female characters, who's about to take a bath as well. He mistakes her for the succubus. I mainly just remember her being visibly uncomfortable the entire scene :// not even in a funny haha way
@@Angel-nz1bk thank you, I was curious but did not want to watch something like that
@@francisconavarrete3031 and? your point is?
@@francisconavarrete3031 I still don't get your point lmao
In short, time and place for everything. I agree, sir!
This was an excellent video. It really enforced what I had already thought of fanservice and its nice to see others share the opinion. If the fanservice is included with intent (I.e Food wars, Kill la Kill, Darling in the Franxx, Kakegurui, ect.) it doesn't really take from the work/show. Pointless and Overwhelming fanservice can really kill a scene. Its all in how its done. Kill la Kill remains one of my favorite Animes just because of how fan service is used along with its deeper meaning and storytelling. So what they show a bit to much, its purposeful and intended. Thank you for putting the work into this, this shall be added to my repertoire when trying to convince my friends to watch Food wars and Kill la Kill XD
I haven't seen any of the shows you mentioned but It sounds like what Mushoku Tensei does.
Remember also that if they just aren't all about fanservice, they don't have to watch it though.
@@spaghetto9836 This argument always triggers me in the worst ways.
@@Chaunwilkerson How? Would you force someone into watching what they don't want to if they're not into seeing frequent suggestive scenes? That's like pressuring me into watching Euphoria when that sexualised teen drama crap isn't my jam.
As a straight girl, I'm not into fanservice of either sex. That doesn't mean I can't distinguish good stories that have fanservice in them. I'm just saying, if a show was filled with guys in Magic Mike XXL clothing, I'd close my laptop. It's just not for me, and that's okay.
To summarise, be respectful of your friends' boundaries. If they're sensitive to gore, don't recommend a gory anime to them, even if you know it's good. Same with suicide, r*pe, etc. That's why I love & appreciate ppl who say "IF you like stories that have X thing/can handle it, then I'd recommend it.", instead of telling you to just "GO FOR IT IT'S AMAZING" without giving *any* heads up.
@@spaghetto9836 Oh, I misunderstood what you where saying for the annoying "no one's making you watch it" or the "If you don't like it don't watch it" arguments people use whenever you criticize something they like.
16:25 ive watched so many status memes i expected senator armstrong to appear
37:37 - THAT!!!! He's completely right, the number of characters that looking underage in some of these shows is skincrawlingly too often. Why the heck do they get drawn like that?
The problem with fanservice is the most of it is just sexualing children. It very rare to see a female character how is an adult that does not look like a child. Many people seem to not want to acknowledge this and just want to make excuses. People keep bring up kill la kill but the main character was a teenager girl that did not want to were the outfit. It kind of send a message that a girl has to sexualize herself just to get power.Japan have very lack law when it comes to SA. I
putting laws to animation is dangerous
@@_Tao__ No one said anything about law, this is a discussion.
@@_Tao__ that's the lefts way of life lol
Tamaki's inclusion was supposed to be to make fun of overt, intrusive sexualization where it shouldn't be. Like how Mark Twain used the N-word a lot in Huck Finn to "depower" the word through repetition. But that kinda just felt like an excuse to do it a lot because he wanted to. So same thing here, really.
“Satire requires a clarity of purpose and target lest it be mistaken and contribute to that which it intends to criticize “
Then what is the point of the comment, when it really doesn't matter that it was done to downplay shit like that
Tamaki v Assault is absolute peak. When they did that little mini episode for their fight it was glorious.
I'm so happy that you talked about Kill La Kill. Loved that anime, especially because it's not that standard fanservice, but things like Satsuki absolutely owning her appeal and nudity.
This genuinely gave me a lot to think about. Every anime fan should see this.
Fan-fucking-tastic video. Editing was top notch and the message to stop anime (and media in general) from being viewed negatively for including adult/sexual themes is fantastic. Good job dude!
Great vid. Glad you mentioned kill la kill in the way you did. This vid would have been missing a very important point had you not. Good job
Something I notice in all the clips featuring Tamaki is that she seems pretty mortified by being exposed in these ways. But, if this really is a curse that she's been afflicted with for God knows how long, shouldn't she be used to it by now? Shouldn't her coworkers? I think it could have present some interesting opportunities to have her be numb to her curse or even just begrudgingly used to it. At the very least, I think it would have gone a long way towards allowing the fanservice to exist without being so tonally dissonant.
Honestly, that kind of compulsory embarrassment which is so common in anime fanservice scenes is a good example of the immaturity you refer to near the ending. The Ur example of this is the "walk-in" trope, where a character - usually a male - walks in on another - usually female - character and reacts extremely and often violently embarrassed. What always gets me about such scenes is the compulsory aspect of it, as if it were impossible for a person to react any other way. It's so ubiquitous that, when it is subverted in any way, viewers (myself included) almost always express relief that something different finally happened.
It ultimately just comes down to how thoughtless most creators' treatment of sexuality is. They really seem to struggle with integrating sexuality into their characters in non-cliché ways, and allowing that integration to be informed by their a character's personality, rather than (what I can only assume) are deep-seated cultural notions about propriety and decency - i.e. Tamaki can't be too blasé about being exposed, or else certain viewers might become judgmental or disapproving, but that's opening a bag of worms I am not well-informed enough to open.
Really, it's just disheartening to think that so many creators just seem unwilling to do anything interesting or unique with this subject matter.
Bro go touch grass 💀
Umm, no, at least that part about her trope as a cursed comic relief character, they are supposed to hate their fate and their resolution should be that they find a way to get rid of the curse, or find a way to no longer have to be around the things that cause the curse.
@@artorhen Well, that's what I get for talking about an anime that I haven't watched.
Though, what I had in mind doesn't preclude Tamaki hating her fate. I was thinking of something like hating one's job or life situation, and the resulting coping mechanisms (both healthy and unhealthy) that inevitably result as a person tries to deal with something like that according to their personality and circumstances.
@@rayos_vt yeah, that to some level is lacking as well in her character development. And she doesn't have much of a final resolution either, in her situation, since it's not about being naked that is the problem, but rather that she gets sa'd by people due to her curse, it doesn't work for her to accept it and do nothing about it, that would pretty much tell the audience that there is no solution to lecherous behaviour and also encourage it, and that is pretty much her final resolution then she steps back and still doesn't have any cool moment when she actually fights anyone.
@@TheGamer-dt8ws fr
For me its not that theres stuff showing but the unrealistic portal and focus-
As a female (and maybe its just me) i feel exceedingly uncomfortable in fanservice scenes-- they are jarring and break immersion but more so i relate to the female characters. Fanservice makes me feel like i am the one on screen being viewed and makes me want to hide. (I did grow up in a fairly religious and modest household which doesn't help). But ultimately i truly hate the weird breast physics and portrayal- again like i am being objectified and that other people might look at me that way
Again that might just be me- its not like i speak for everyone but that is my problem with it
Edit: i agree with all of your points and i dont think fanservice is inherently bad-- like that dude in fireforce who keeps getting beaten because of fanservice was genuinely funny for me and now i wanna watch kill la kill-- i just thought that might provide some helpful context from a female's perspective
Same as you! I don't like fanservice because I just know its to allure and make a series popular. How girl characters are given so much love and appeal to their designs while guys seem very typical in most fanservice series. And being older than highschool, i feel super uncomfortable with lewdness of like 15 year olds. But in spite of that, Kill la Kill was really great because I understood the satire and importance of fanservice as well as both female and male characters being created with much thought.
@@alexandriatran3843 okay- thx! Ill definitely watch it now!
i have tried posting a comment several times now lol but I'm gonna hope it works this time. i really enjoyed your video and I appreciate your thoughts on it! i agree there is always a time and place for this, and you made a good example out of food wars. as a girl it's mostly how incessant and tone-deaf fanservice can get that rubs me the wrong way. i like to consume anime/manga as a form of escapism, like lots of people do, but it's upsetting to me that (often nonconsenual) fanservice is inserted Everywhere and Whenever, and is often dished out Only to women. just makes for a wildly uncomfortable experience!! but the fact that it's so common and so normalized makes it hard to curate my experience.
i get the argument that shounen is meant for teenage boys but it's not a hard concept to grasp that people of all genders enjoy shounen nowadays. it's the most popular, gets the most coverage; doesn't feel right to alienate a certain demographic with distasteful and rampant fanservice. i'd rather watch fanservice from beach episodes and beauty contests than a girl getting beat within an inch of her life ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I definitely agree with everything you're saying. My opinion in the video will only ever be from the perspective of a man, and I even had more to say in the final parts of the video that I cut out at some point because I didn't feel I had the perspective to talk about it.
The medium of anime is still overwhelming gendered and split, with very obvious attempts to gear shows towards girls or guys. And even though the audience for shonen is global and far reaching, they still have an attitude that it's just teen boys watching, and rarely ever consider any female perspective. And so fanservice has evolved unchecked into its own culture and tropes, which usually involve nonconsensual or blatantly dehumanizing scenes for laughs.
That's why I can only hope to help start a conversation about this stuff. So hopefully more people like yourself are able to add perspective and get people to listen, and eventually shows can start to see more of those perspectives and broaden the narrow view of female characters they often have. Ideally instead of people just cheering on shows that don't have fanservice at all, we can see shows that do have it, but are respectful towards the characters.
It's only by making it more known that these situations are uncomfortable to a large subset of people that we can let creators know to change what they're doing. Because teen boys will always cheer it on because of boobs anyway.
@@Lextorias thank you for such a lovely reply!! you’re already accomplishing your hopes of starting conversations, it’s really cool to see. hoping more people come to find your video very soon!! :y👍
If anime is gear toward a guys then it gonna have guys theme in it. Just like anime gear toward female gonna have female theme stuff in it.
@@INFERNO95 i understand that!! but times change. shounen anime remains the most popular across all kinds of people, not just the guys they often try to gear towards. i don’t think it’s a wasted effort to point out how certain aspects of shounen anime can alienate certain demographics or contribute to backwards ideas around treating women. it also feels gross to pass rampant fanservice as a “guy’s theme”, or to sweep it under the rug like it’s that trivial. i think it’s worth talking about.
“romance and cute stuff is a female thing, battles and boobs are a male thing”
@@isabell3751
AGREED!
Your'e a really funny dude and I feel so sorry that the opportunity was missed for a transition lol, I can't hep the channel out much but I hope you succeed in your channel and in your life, stay safe!