Last time I uploaded a video like this the pin said "Thanks for 6k TH-cam subs" lol. The meta and community has developed a lot since then, crazy stuff!
Better then that, T90 should set up a bounty. First player who manage to beat Viper with it and send him the video gets a grand. I'm sure he could get people to donate for that easely.
@@giantWario Hey Viper, for $500 would you let me win a game against you? Plot twist: I have no idea how to do an Persian douche, accidentally do a fast imperial age instead, and thus lose both the bounty and the bribe.
I’m a low elo loser and I tried this strat a while back. I deleted my TC and when I went to rebuild I couldn’t figure out why the build Tc button was grayed out. I thought the resources would get refunded if I deleted my tc and didn’t have enough wood for another. Fastest gg ever and I’ve not ever tried it again lol
For the future, resources are refunded based on how complete a building is. A finished building gives nothing, a 50% constructed one gives 50% back and one that's barely been started gives almost all res back. That's why you see people desperate to finish a castle that was denied at 90% completion rather than deleting it and trying elsewhere.
watched this on vipers channel a couple days ago. insane game. viper seemed pretty confident the whole way through. I loved his bit of trash talk calling vivi a noob lol
I saw this on the vipers own youtube. It's interesting How he manage it well. He doesn't overreact and panic to much when he sees vivi's gonna do a persian douche. He is just chat with vivi and calling him noob. And that quick wall to trap a vill and even more than one it's so satisfying and hilarious at the same time.
I tested pallisade rush against extreme AI So at start of game you send 2 vills straight to enemy TC and build pallisades around entire TC. the AI will not attack vills, instead it will send the scout to attack wall once you surround the TC, at this point you trap the scout with more walls and and he stops attacking, he gets all glitched and wont do anything. From there the entire enemy pop is trapped and will be unable to play the game.
I watched this on viper's stream and it was crazy, the micro was so good. It never felt like vivi had that big of a villager lead but it was much bigger than I thought.
You uploaded that 4 years ago?? I cant believe it's been 4 years since I started watching your content... Caught one single hidden cup 2 stream in that time... Keep up with the youtube content! It's amazing and a very appreciated part of my day to day life.
The big problem is that the civ/map differences make a consistent response difficult: someone with easier access to trash units might go for them instead of gold units, for example. There are a few take aways though: 1. Walling in the enemy is very efficient: every villager not working is basically 25 resources per minute denied. In the same vein... 2. Advance ASAP and get eco upgrades as soon as you safely can: early eco upgrades make a massive diffrence, and this plus the wall delay can give you a decisive lead. 3. Don't repair: you cannot delay your TC death enough to justify the lost wood. 4. Feel free to spread out your camps: the other player should never be in a position to punish this. 5. Attack his spawn: towers forced there are towers he can't put forward. 6. Assume the worst against the Persians, and build houses in areas where a TC drop can score big value, like if it can destroy your TC and stone camps both. You can't stop the drop, but you *can* reduce its value.
I'd say one villager repairing can be justified, just don't go overboard. Every second you keep yours up is an extra second that your opponent has 10 villagers idling inside their TC to attack yours. Considering they've already sacrificed villager production to do the douche, they are much less able to afford to waste them.
@@Sids1192 That possibilty was something I checked: repairs don't even buy you the time equivalent of one resource trip from the other player. The repair speed is just too slow, and TCs are just too wood expensive. Spend that wood on walls, upgrades, or military instead: the enemy needs you to lose a lot of mining/build time to come out ahead, so the more time they have to spend on eco catchup themselves, the more your own advantages.
I really dont know how Tristan comes up with those awesome games continuously. Its just enjoyable as hell to listen to his analysis each time and it always gets me in a good mood. Best AoE caster on the net. Keep on the good work.
watch closely... viper drops two villagers on the straggler tree after his first boar ran out and the timing of his second boar is a bit off. He snacks a sheep in the mean time to keep food income and you shouldnt send more than 6 vills on sheep in general because vills refuse to gather them sometimes when theres not much space around those. Its just a little balancing until the second boar comes in. Also you can see the villagers dancing and idling after the first boar ran out. He just reacted to the behavior of em
T90 likes to call stragglers the flexibility trees. You use them if you have nothing better to do with your vils to sustain resource income if theres no better option
Nice video. I saw this from Viper's POV too and all I have to say is, when playing against Vivi, Viper is never thinking about how he's going to have a regular game!
Back in the day, 20 years ago, we had a 4v4 game where everything was going normal until I accidentally deleted my TC. So I figured, oh well, I guess I'm doing a douche now! So I gathered half my villagers and picked the biggest noob in the opposing team, and douched him, while distributing the rest of my villagers around the map collecting resources in neutral locations. Took out the noob, leeched off his resources like a parasite, and spread across the map like a disease (also helped that I was red). By the time the game ended, maybe 3/4 of the map was covered in my color. Was possibly one of the most memorable (and entertaining) games I played.
tc is 4x4 so a wall every 4 tiles x and y should be minimal. In a game though, some pallisades dotted around the tc's farms would be easier to remember. Just trying to squash any 4x4 area around the tc.
T90: "Go and see the other video before this one" Me: Meh, I don't have time T90: "Nvm don't see it, it's old and awful" Me: If you say I have to see it, guess I have no option
Rubenstock needs to gather some meme-acolytes and teach them the ways of TC drops. Wouldn't AoE2 be amazing with a bunch of little Rubenstocks running around being goofy?
5:00 if viper really knew what to do here he would have sent delay melee to the original foundation to prevent further expansion in.. i'm honestly not sure why this isn't obvious!?
Viper managed to gay baby jail 3 villagers with instant quad palisades in three separate situations and was still struggling. 7:13 It's absolutely viable. T90 even says Viper may have won solely due to map luck.
Ahhh! Now I get it. You make up for lost down time by having the ability to create villagers while your opponent can't. You still need to have the food for this. Hard tactic to pull off.
I've been trying to get people to do the berry rush, which accomplishes the main things shown in this video. 1) Steal berries. 2) When possible, trap and kill villagers, or force deletion of buildings, in a way that militia can't. It doesn't let you destroy enemy TC, but that's neutral: you have 'idle TC' time when you rebuild yours, and your opponent has the same when their TC is destroyed, but you also have to shoot 480 arrows at their TC, which is over 1000 villager seconds (since reload is slower with more arrows). I'd show the berry rush in multiplayer myself if I wasn't poor, with an 11-year-old laptop and no mouse, and at risk for killing myself or going to prison. Destroying enemy TC basically is beneficial only if there are lots of farms next to it that you can deny or if your opponent lets you rush their villagers after they lose their TC. If you can steal their berries and trap their villagers without having to delete and rebuild your own TC, it's better. Of course, the berry rush is not ideal for all situations and is better against an opponent that doesn't get free loom or when you yourself do get loom early on (Goths, Mayans, Chinese). Lithuanians could work well if you can force your opponent to fight with villagers before they can sustain villager production while doing so, sort of like their early drush.
16:45 i think they finally addressed the problem with the in-game chat of recorded games on the last patch from 27th may. Check it at the patch notes on the ageofempires website and please correct me if im wrong with my conclusion. You'll find the listing under the rubric 10.UI. If im right i guess that T90 will be pleased about it :-D This game was probably before the patch came out.
since im not sure if hyperlinks are okay, i separate this. just delete this comment if not, here is the link to the notes: www.ageofempires.com/news/aoe2de-update-37650/
In the SC2 scene we would call this a rush. What we saw there is that rushes in the right hands can always develop out of all-ins. AoE2 can be much complex with next years when people realise the surprise effect + a trained rusher vs a normal por player can do some fancy matchups.
Almost. "Cheese" is the proper category (which sprouted from a korean guy saying "cheat"). It's an all or nothing strat that strongly relies on not being scouted, and it's not difficult to do. Inca vil rush is another example of complete cheese.
You don't know your opponent's civ until the game starts, so both would cancel their plan and play normally. The whole point is the double Persian TC hit points vs generic TC hit points.
I'd need some stats on tc build speed and TC dps per garrisoned worker. It's probably possible to win the tc vs tc fight on big maps or maps with fish, but you would need to min/max your economy while having idle vils garrisoned/repairing, then produce archers and counterattack with 2-3 archers and send the rest to be garrisoned in your tc to free up vils. On small maps with no fish just give up on your tc. Maybe repair it to to get some more workers out of it before rebuilding but don't try to fight.
*"Persian douche 2020"* People that have Persian ancestors : *_"We didn't do nothing wrong"_* 8:26 Reminds me of *_"Is it just me or is it getting crazier in here?"_* T90 is joker confirmed xD
They should make it so you can't destroy your own Town center. Make it so you can only rebuild a TC if it is destroyed by an opponent. And if they don't do that, then it should be made a rule for tournaments.
I think limiting possible strategies would damage the game, TC dropping is kinda balanced afaik as long as it's not Persians. To me a balanced solution would be that persian TC and Docks get +25% more hp in Feudal, +50% in Castle and +75 or 100% in Imperial, so they have no unfair advantage in the very beginning but can manage to at least remain solid (or at least forces you to be good at fast feudal to pull it off succesfully)
Probably situational depending on the map gen, but definitely a strat people should keep on their mind when they go into a game with Persians IMO (and practice to be ready to use when the opportunity arises), especially that Persians are a great civ and a common pick.
Considering the number of games I watched that you showed off the TC drop, I think it;s become a completely valid strategy that can have a lot of success if executed well.
Someone did this to me yesterday. I've seen it done before, even on your channel, but just got so flustered (1100 elo). I put up a tower to try and get his builders, but he had 10 or so and it went up incredibly fast. Built another tower, I have no idea why. Then I started repairing my (Feudal) TC and trying to kill his. Made men at arms, they just died to TC fire instantly. Then I just gave up. Now I know to let my TC die, and just boom elsewhere and then raid him. I hope I get douched again so I can try it and come out on top!
@@Cheximus never never repair your tc unless you think feudal will be canceled. its not worth the wood. period. build another one and make like 5 small palisades around its perimeter so he cant deuche again
It is a legit strategy, just basically a super committed tower rush. Your goal is to put your opponent on the back foot and throw them off their plans - any early game rush is trying to achieve that.
I think this strategy is a difficult strategy to pull off against the best because most of the best are fast players, and I think you have to be a fast and decisive player to defend well against this strategy. I definitely think that, head to head, it can be quite strong, especially since Persians are just a strong civ anyway, so it's not like you have to douche in every land game. I'm curious to see the level of scouting in the first 2-4 minutes in these game before you pull the trigger, i.e. I wonder if Vivi still would've gone with this if he saw how safe Viper's golds were. I also don't know the build well enough to know if it has the flexibility to go into other builds without losing too much tempo if you see that douche is going to not be preferred.
There were some big advantages to Viper's map Gen in this one. Generally, the modern TC drop is about restricting the wood income of your opponent, since you most of the time have food at home, and if your opp can't build a new TC then he can't really make new vills either. But the prime TC drop spot was cluttered with stragglers trees, and the one Vivi went for really didn't harm any wood income at all. Nevermind Viper's safe spot on the other side of his woodline. Nevertheless, a great game nonetheless!
Vivi had enough vills to fast castle and didn't. should've tried to turn the economic advantage into a mil advantage instead of viper getting to run around with scouts and archers
> Mom says you can be whatever you want > Decide you want to be the best at AoE2 > Watch Viper get his TC destroyed, forced off food and his berries denied, and end up 12 vills behind in feudal age. > Watch Viper easily win regardless > Uninstall AoE2
Guys guys please help I just played a Nomad game against a persian, right when I finished my starting forum the persian started building his forum near mine, I managed to kill one of the three villagers, tried to kill the builders but he walled around them, then i couldn't save my forum, and game was over... what could I do ??
leave the tc and have him attacking it and build it somewhere where you have recources and try to possibly use towers and scout where he gets his resources
Red did well to last this long. I'm perplexed at how one can march 10 villagers across the board, build a TC and sustain an economy while creating military and fighting. This tactic has to fail, because the rusher has to fall behind, surely? I noticed Red got Viper's berries, though. Something extra I picked up was how weak feudal archers are. The loss of the berries may have infuenced the non-militia build? The few cavalry helped delay Red. It's overall puzzling to see how the TC rush could work, yet it was a contest.
It's a legit strat, but I also feel like the meme/troll nature of the move is part of its effectiveness. I'm glad we don't see it from more people cause I'd rather see a real match than the cluster-**** that the douche creates, but it's not as though it isn't entertaining in a vacuum or small doses. Killing the other side's animals is toxic as hell, but it's a legit strat. Not that I think the two are in the same ballpark- but just because a strat is high-risk or just high-troll doesn't keep it from being a legit move to consider.
Hey T90, can you cast a game with some Australian players, I only saw the send it boys on your steam once and I would really like to see them in a you tube video. Thanks 😊
Last time I uploaded a video like this the pin said "Thanks for 6k TH-cam subs" lol. The meta and community has developed a lot since then, crazy stuff!
T90 when we will see match on giant LudiKRIS map?
Off topic, but what's your favourite colour?
Crazy stuff. i watched the first video just yesterday? totally coincident?
69th like LUL
And in just another feeble 48k we'll reach perfection in the longest game ever!
I got to this video earlier than the TC was dropped
Hera with the youtube comment bombs
11
He figured it DauT!
if 2020 has good things, one of them is Hera being active on YT
@@nakusaki Damn you, bot! BEGONE!
There should be a Steam achievement for beating Viper with a TC drop
"0.00% of players have this achievement" 😂
Better then that, T90 should set up a bounty. First player who manage to beat Viper with it and send him the video gets a grand. I'm sure he could get people to donate for that easely.
@@giantWario I think Viper would hate it though hehe
@@giantWario Man Viper would get so tired of getting TC dropped constantly then. And every time he would get better at defending against it.
@@giantWario Hey Viper, for $500 would you let me win a game against you?
Plot twist: I have no idea how to do an Persian douche, accidentally do a fast imperial age instead, and thus lose both the bounty and the bribe.
I’m a low elo loser and I tried this strat a while back. I deleted my TC and when I went to rebuild I couldn’t figure out why the build Tc button was grayed out. I thought the resources would get refunded if I deleted my tc and didn’t have enough wood for another. Fastest gg ever and I’ve not ever tried it again lol
Glorious!
Haha! And unfortunately your opponent will never know (unless you had a dialogue post game).
For the future, resources are refunded based on how complete a building is.
A finished building gives nothing, a 50% constructed one gives 50% back and one that's barely been started gives almost all res back.
That's why you see people desperate to finish a castle that was denied at 90% completion rather than deleting it and trying elsewhere.
lol gg nub
Great, great story! :D
Thank you for sharing it :D
10:22 on the right nice moonwalking
watched this on vipers channel a couple days ago. insane game. viper seemed pretty confident the whole way through. I loved his bit of trash talk calling vivi a noob lol
My thoughts as well.
Not on his YT?
@@whuzzzup yes on his YT
@@whuzzzup th-cam.com/video/8fdhXzd4bjY/w-d-xo.html
Even when he wasnt making vlls for 5minutes he didnt care
I saw this on the vipers own youtube. It's interesting How he manage it well. He doesn't overreact and panic to much when he sees vivi's gonna do a persian douche. He is just chat with vivi and calling him noob. And that quick wall to trap a vill and even more than one it's so satisfying and hilarious at the same time.
Do you have the link? I cannot find it. thanks in advance!
@@rafjj23 th-cam.com/video/8fdhXzd4bjY/w-d-xo.html
Yeah he jokes about vivid douch ing his mill xd
viper is very annoying, sounds silly when he talks
As much fun as it is to watch this strategy, it feels good to see it beaten tbh
I tested pallisade rush against extreme AI
So at start of game you send 2 vills straight to enemy TC and build pallisades around entire TC.
the AI will not attack vills, instead it will send the scout to attack wall once you surround the TC, at this point you trap the scout with more walls and and he stops attacking, he gets all glitched and wont do anything. From there the entire enemy pop is trapped and will be unable to play the game.
I watched this on viper's stream and it was crazy, the micro was so good. It never felt like vivi had that big of a villager lead but it was much bigger than I thought.
he probably said "hoowwhat" like 100 times
Viper has his perspective on his own TH-cam channel for those that are curious.
T90 the only thing "Official" about you is you are officially the best caster of any game on TH-cam.
What we didn't see was a second TC drop of Viper's second TV, denying his gold, wood, and stone.
If you're allowed to enter his home, you would see Viper's second TV
You uploaded that 4 years ago?? I cant believe it's been 4 years since I started watching your content... Caught one single hidden cup 2 stream in that time... Keep up with the youtube content! It's amazing and a very appreciated part of my day to day life.
"You won't see this strat being used in tournaments except by rubenstock" T90
He predicted rubenstock double TC drop in BoA2
:)
The big problem is that the civ/map differences make a consistent response difficult: someone with easier access to trash units might go for them instead of gold units, for example. There are a few take aways though:
1. Walling in the enemy is very efficient: every villager not working is basically 25 resources per minute denied. In the same vein...
2. Advance ASAP and get eco upgrades as soon as you safely can: early eco upgrades make a massive diffrence, and this plus the wall delay can give you a decisive lead.
3. Don't repair: you cannot delay your TC death enough to justify the lost wood.
4. Feel free to spread out your camps: the other player should never be in a position to punish this.
5. Attack his spawn: towers forced there are towers he can't put forward.
6. Assume the worst against the Persians, and build houses in areas where a TC drop can score big value, like if it can destroy your TC and stone camps both. You can't stop the drop, but you *can* reduce its value.
3. Except if you're about to hit feudal age
I'd say one villager repairing can be justified, just don't go overboard. Every second you keep yours up is an extra second that your opponent has 10 villagers idling inside their TC to attack yours. Considering they've already sacrificed villager production to do the douche, they are much less able to afford to waste them.
@@Sids1192 That possibilty was something I checked: repairs don't even buy you the time equivalent of one resource trip from the other player. The repair speed is just too slow, and TCs are just too wood expensive.
Spend that wood on walls, upgrades, or military instead: the enemy needs you to lose a lot of mining/build time to come out ahead, so the more time they have to spend on eco catchup themselves, the more your own advantages.
right? vip couldve made like 3 palisades with his berry vills and killed the game gg insta
I really dont know how Tristan comes up with those awesome games continuously. Its just enjoyable as hell to listen to his analysis each time and it always gets me in a good mood. Best AoE caster on the net. Keep on the good work.
Viper chopping stragglers again in dark age?????Explain THAT t90! 3:10
watch closely... viper drops two villagers on the straggler tree after his first boar ran out and the timing of his second boar is a bit off. He snacks a sheep in the mean time to keep food income and you shouldnt send more than 6 vills on sheep in general because vills refuse to gather them sometimes when theres not much space around those. Its just a little balancing until the second boar comes in. Also you can see the villagers dancing and idling after the first boar ran out. He just reacted to the behavior of em
Asking the real questions here
Edit: Watched it a few times to figure it out. They were just waiting for the boar to be lured in.
T90 likes to call stragglers the flexibility trees. You use them if you have nothing better to do with your vils to sustain resource income if theres no better option
It's a joke, guys
@@sebastianschmidt7268 defending viper playing like a noob isn't a good look
Nice video. I saw this from Viper's POV too and all I have to say is, when playing against Vivi, Viper is never thinking about how he's going to have a regular game!
"Are you stressed? Coz I am stressed, but also impressed." - Tristan, 2020
Holy shit this was high level play. Was constant action. Now if MS can just give us in game chat so we can see the banter!
Throwback from the first video I've seen in this channel. Can't believe it's been 2 years
Edit: math is hard, it's over 3 years, actually
Back in the day, 20 years ago, we had a 4v4 game where everything was going normal until I accidentally deleted my TC. So I figured, oh well, I guess I'm doing a douche now! So I gathered half my villagers and picked the biggest noob in the opposing team, and douched him, while distributing the rest of my villagers around the map collecting resources in neutral locations. Took out the noob, leeched off his resources like a parasite, and spread across the map like a disease (also helped that I was red). By the time the game ended, maybe 3/4 of the map was covered in my color.
Was possibly one of the most memorable (and entertaining) games I played.
This strat is the definition of "If its stupid but it works, its not stupid"
Viper’s micro skills are just insane!
Jesus both of these players are nuts, they’re soooo good
I watched Viper's POV yesterday and I just finished watching the full game against from T90's pov
What a crazy game!
Can someone work out how you would optimise palisade wall placement to prevent tc place? Paging SotL...
tc is 4x4 so a wall every 4 tiles x and y should be minimal. In a game though, some pallisades dotted around the tc's farms would be easier to remember. Just trying to squash any 4x4 area around the tc.
T90: "Go and see the other video before this one"
Me: Meh, I don't have time
T90: "Nvm don't see it, it's old and awful"
Me: If you say I have to see it, guess I have no option
Played my first ranked DE game today and immediatly got someone trying to tc drop me.. thanks to this video I managed to turn things around :D
good for u
Yes it is a mix of both. I think you have to follow it up with a second TC and a tower on the berries. He had the stone for it.
Came here after the “you got douched” guy to see how to kick their asses.
Douche games are the one time a standard match feels more brutal than the wildest Nomad starts.
That old video was how I found you and got back into the game.
I wonder how confused the first person was who faced this strat
Things got a bit messy, so how many palisade gates do you like?
The Viper and FatDragon: Yes
not sure if you've tuned this out, but the overlay still has HC3 Overlay at the bottom
the viper uploaded his view with the chat , viper calls Vivi a Noob when the first TC out of range is placed
Rubenstock needs to gather some meme-acolytes and teach them the ways of TC drops. Wouldn't AoE2 be amazing with a bunch of little Rubenstocks running around being goofy?
Imagine the Viper getting WooWooWoo'ed 20 minutes into a game in 2020
has there ever been a game where both players tried to TC-rush? I would love to see this happen :)
wouldnt make sense. the point is the persians having the high hp tcs, so tc vs tc is too risky
18:55- Lmao. The wolf is like wut.
Its a meme strat imo but its a meme because its pretty good. Viper is a different beast though so pretty good isn't usually good enough against him.
5:00 if viper really knew what to do here he would have sent delay melee to the original foundation to prevent further expansion in.. i'm honestly not sure why this isn't obvious!?
It's a viable strat because there aren't any other people who can quick wall like viper
Viper managed to gay baby jail 3 villagers with instant quad palisades in three separate situations and was still struggling. 7:13
It's absolutely viable. T90 even says Viper may have won solely due to map luck.
Ahhh! Now I get it. You make up for lost down time by having the ability to create villagers while your opponent can't. You still need to have the food for this. Hard tactic to pull off.
I've been trying to get people to do the berry rush, which accomplishes the main things shown in this video. 1) Steal berries. 2) When possible, trap and kill villagers, or force deletion of buildings, in a way that militia can't. It doesn't let you destroy enemy TC, but that's neutral: you have 'idle TC' time when you rebuild yours, and your opponent has the same when their TC is destroyed, but you also have to shoot 480 arrows at their TC, which is over 1000 villager seconds (since reload is slower with more arrows). I'd show the berry rush in multiplayer myself if I wasn't poor, with an 11-year-old laptop and no mouse, and at risk for killing myself or going to prison.
Destroying enemy TC basically is beneficial only if there are lots of farms next to it that you can deny or if your opponent lets you rush their villagers after they lose their TC. If you can steal their berries and trap their villagers without having to delete and rebuild your own TC, it's better. Of course, the berry rush is not ideal for all situations and is better against an opponent that doesn't get free loom or when you yourself do get loom early on (Goths, Mayans, Chinese). Lithuanians could work well if you can force your opponent to fight with villagers before they can sustain villager production while doing so, sort of like their early drush.
"you Listeners". Guilty, I listen to fall asleep sometime, but this one is too intense, so I'm a viewer now.
16:45 i think they finally addressed the problem with the in-game chat of recorded games on the last patch from 27th may. Check it at the patch notes on the ageofempires website and please correct me if im wrong with my conclusion. You'll find the listing under the rubric 10.UI. If im right i guess that T90 will be pleased about it :-D
This game was probably before the patch came out.
since im not sure if hyperlinks are okay, i separate this. just delete this comment if not, here is the link to the notes: www.ageofempires.com/news/aoe2de-update-37650/
In the SC2 scene we would call this a rush. What we saw there is that rushes in the right hands can always develop out of all-ins. AoE2 can be much complex with next years when people realise the surprise effect + a trained rusher vs a normal por player can do some fancy matchups.
Almost. "Cheese" is the proper category (which sprouted from a korean guy saying "cheat"). It's an all or nothing strat that strongly relies on not being scouted, and it's not difficult to do. Inca vil rush is another example of complete cheese.
Made it to 19mins before I started falling asleep! Thanks.
A good strat when it can cover the TC and berries. The times it doesnt it seems to fail. So scouting for the option is obviously important.
What about a cuman TC drop? So you don't need to delete your main TC and can still build a solid economy behind it
TC to weak :D
what a game !! so cool to watch it's on par with some SC2 micro content
Imagine players playing like this 20 years ago
In a Persian mirror match, if both players decide to douche, do they simply switch spawns?
If one player scouted it, he could just keep pumping out villagers, kill the proxy TC in a trade and just win right there.
You don't know your opponent's civ until the game starts, so both would cancel their plan and play normally. The whole point is the double Persian TC hit points vs generic TC hit points.
I'd need some stats on tc build speed and TC dps per garrisoned worker. It's probably possible to win the tc vs tc fight on big maps or maps with fish, but you would need to min/max your economy while having idle vils garrisoned/repairing, then produce archers and counterattack with 2-3 archers and send the rest to be garrisoned in your tc to free up vils. On small maps with no fish just give up on your tc. Maybe repair it to to get some more workers out of it before rebuilding but don't try to fight.
I think that the person that tc rush needs to place the tc in a way that project Wood, so u can well in the Vills spread out in the map
Those quick walls
Viper is totally cool under pressure, he doesn't even seem phased in situations like this.
*"Persian douche 2020"*
People that have Persian ancestors : *_"We didn't do nothing wrong"_*
8:26 Reminds me of *_"Is it just me or is it getting crazier in here?"_*
T90 is joker confirmed xD
how do u play multiplayer on aoe2 de
They should make it so you can't destroy your own Town center. Make it so you can only rebuild a TC if it is destroyed by an opponent. And if they don't do that, then it should be made a rule for tournaments.
I think limiting possible strategies would damage the game, TC dropping is kinda balanced afaik as long as it's not Persians. To me a balanced solution would be that persian TC and Docks get +25% more hp in Feudal, +50% in Castle and +75 or 100% in Imperial, so they have no unfair advantage in the very beginning but can manage to at least remain solid (or at least forces you to be good at fast feudal to pull it off succesfully)
Probably situational depending on the map gen, but definitely a strat people should keep on their mind when they go into a game with Persians IMO (and practice to be ready to use when the opportunity arises), especially that Persians are a great civ and a common pick.
Considering the number of games I watched that you showed off the TC drop, I think it;s become a completely valid strategy that can have a lot of success if executed well.
Someone did this to me yesterday. I've seen it done before, even on your channel, but just got so flustered (1100 elo). I put up a tower to try and get his builders, but he had 10 or so and it went up incredibly fast. Built another tower, I have no idea why. Then I started repairing my (Feudal) TC and trying to kill his. Made men at arms, they just died to TC fire instantly. Then I just gave up. Now I know to let my TC die, and just boom elsewhere and then raid him. I hope I get douched again so I can try it and come out on top!
Ok after watching that, I feel less bad about losing to that strat. Even had Viper on edge! Great game.
@@Cheximus never never repair your tc unless you think feudal will be canceled. its not worth the wood. period. build another one and make like 5 small palisades around its perimeter so he cant deuche again
I feel like it started out as a meme/troll strat, but quickly became a viable option once people started to see the potential of this strat
10:02 plot twist!!! 🤣🤣🤣
It is a legit strategy, just basically a super committed tower rush. Your goal is to put your opponent on the back foot and throw them off their plans - any early game rush is trying to achieve that.
I think this strategy is a difficult strategy to pull off against the best because most of the best are fast players, and I think you have to be a fast and decisive player to defend well against this strategy. I definitely think that, head to head, it can be quite strong, especially since Persians are just a strong civ anyway, so it's not like you have to douche in every land game. I'm curious to see the level of scouting in the first 2-4 minutes in these game before you pull the trigger, i.e. I wonder if Vivi still would've gone with this if he saw how safe Viper's golds were. I also don't know the build well enough to know if it has the flexibility to go into other builds without losing too much tempo if you see that douche is going to not be preferred.
Saw this game live... Snek Is amazing, excited to see t90 cast it
There were some big advantages to Viper's map Gen in this one. Generally, the modern TC drop is about restricting the wood income of your opponent, since you most of the time have food at home, and if your opp can't build a new TC then he can't really make new vills either. But the prime TC drop spot was cluttered with stragglers trees, and the one Vivi went for really didn't harm any wood income at all. Nevermind Viper's safe spot on the other side of his woodline.
Nevertheless, a great game nonetheless!
Watched it on the viper channel but i stilll want to hear your point of view.
Love your work
how to play aoe2 definitive edition online?
Vivi had enough vills to fast castle and didn't. should've tried to turn the economic advantage into a mil advantage instead of viper getting to run around with scouts and archers
Anon Non Vivi never made any scouts or archers. because he didn’t have gold. Also the reason he couldn’t FC.
I tried this once in a rated game. The other player kept spamming insults in the chat the entire game.
> Mom says you can be whatever you want
> Decide you want to be the best at AoE2
> Watch Viper get his TC destroyed, forced off food and his berries denied, and end up 12 vills behind in feudal age.
> Watch Viper easily win regardless
> Uninstall AoE2
Viper is like Christian Von Koenigsegg when every other player is just figuring out overhead valves.
Guys why vipers TC dont attack vivis one?
I watched TheVIper's perspective and its hilarious 11
how scary is it that i hear laugh when i see 11
Nobody suspects a douche right into the enemy mill 4:48
Already saw this on vipeys channel
T90 in 2020: there is no chat in-game. much bad!
T90 in 2016: Let's turn off the chat - !chatoff
GOAT! :D
yes i have a question... why does the Viper play in green ???
19:20 big mistake from vivi what was he doing?
In theory is it possible to tc drop on pocket in a 3 v 3 to delay his boom ?
Rubenstock did that quite recently. Admittedly after douching his flank as well. And yes, it works.
This type of strat would be called a cheese
Guys guys please help I just played a Nomad game against a persian, right when I finished my starting forum the persian started building his forum near mine, I managed to kill one of the three villagers, tried to kill the builders but he walled around them, then i couldn't save my forum, and game was over... what could I do ??
leave the tc and have him attacking it and build it somewhere where you have recources and try to possibly use towers and scout where he gets his resources
The thumbnail should have a picture of a viper.
Red did well to last this long. I'm perplexed at how one can march 10 villagers across the board, build a TC and sustain an economy while creating military and fighting.
This tactic has to fail, because the rusher has to fall behind, surely? I noticed Red got Viper's berries, though.
Something extra I picked up was how weak feudal archers are. The loss of the berries may have infuenced the non-militia build? The few cavalry helped delay Red. It's overall puzzling to see how the TC rush could work, yet it was a contest.
Wow this was a wild ride
KrayzHipo here. I'm actually more of a listener than watcher, because I listen podcast-style to streams while at work!
T90 must be on shrooms, the whoop whoop sounded like Mario.
why did viper delete his own house during red's attemp to wall the range in?
Feels like Vivi should've TC dropped the new TC from viper as well
12:25 masterclass trap
The casting was actually pretty good back then imo.
It's a legit strat, but I also feel like the meme/troll nature of the move is part of its effectiveness.
I'm glad we don't see it from more people cause I'd rather see a real match than the cluster-**** that the douche creates, but it's not as though it isn't entertaining in a vacuum or small doses.
Killing the other side's animals is toxic as hell, but it's a legit strat. Not that I think the two are in the same ballpark- but just because a strat is high-risk or just high-troll doesn't keep it from being a legit move to consider.
IT's already 2021 and i'm still waiting for "Advanced to Castle Age" 11111
16:54 not so sure about that lol
Hey T90, can you cast a game with some Australian players, I only saw the send it boys on your steam once and I would really like to see them in a you tube video.
Thanks 😊