Regarding the clip: don't use a square slot, use a triangular/conical slot so that there is zero clearance once assembled. Try this. We use this principle in our zero-tolerance assemblies at work (totally unrelated to your scenario).
Man!!! even big companies use revision control wrong! I'm thrilled that you are keeping track of the part revisions during your development: that is awsome!. Looking forward to this design!!!. Also, the effort you are putting into the tolerance stack-up and fits is superb.
Hi John, my highest respect for your perseverance and the will to do something not just well but perfectly. I hope to have the opportunity to purchase one of your Fjells one day. All the best to you and your team
The clip wiggling sounds similar to a woodworking problem with sliding dovetails... you need clearance to slide them together but clearance makes them move. The trick is to use a tapered dovetail instead of a straight one, so that you need much less clearance and you only need it at the very last moment. I wonder if that would work with your knife too.
For the clip could you design it so the clip gets cooled in the cryo tank then installed then when it heats up to room temp it is tighter then the .0002 tolerance you talk about.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Ferrari installs their valve seats with an interference fit. By cryo freezing them just before installation, once they warm up, they're not coming back out. If it works in a combustion chamber with a valve slamming into it thousands of times a minute, it should work fine for a pocket clip.
Normalising the blade steal before machining the blade for a stressfree even grain struckture beforehand could solve the warping problem. I am not realy sure how well the steel is in its raw form. Its possible the steel has some inner Stress which is released when hardening. Seems to be the case when they warp differently and are from the same bar. Thats a thing we did in Moldmaking for long parts and tight tollerances. In German its called Spannungsarmglühen.
I was thinking the same thing. We run a output housing from a forging which has 2 internal ring gear features, 2 internal bearings and 1 external bearing and when we used to go straight from forging to turning, gear cutting then heat treatment before coming back for hard turning we forever had issues with bad runout. No we send the forgings for normalising before we turn them and run out after heat treatment is virtually non existent.
Keep up the great work John, Erik and team. As much as I want the Fjell to move into production, make sure you take care of yourselves and make time for family. I am so excited to get a Fjell in my pocket. I’ve been patiently waiting since John first showed the gray plastic prototype October 26, 2022.
That thin arc of blade with the flipper tab on it reminds me of a thermostat spring, makes sense that heat treat distortions would be most noticeable there.
I really like this knife as an integral. The cuts in the side and not on the spine are brilliant! I look at other integrals and they either have no cuts to clear debris or they have the spine cut which negates the single construction.
Hi John! I am from Russia, I am enjoying watching your production and development, it is wonderful! I also started making folding knives and I really like it! I wish you good luck in your future projects and endeavors!
A set screw of some sort makes sense, just so the pocket clip can’t slide off. Maybe a smaller screw from the side instead of from the top/back. Good luck!
I maybe even have thought of a more complicated solution though it will still likely have play. Just like the pivot, do a ball detent on the clip with a spring. Put a hole through the frame to allow for manipulating it, though it would take a pick or similar tool to release it. Not user friendly, but could also minimize wiggle.
I like the LN2 interference fit ideas. Another possibility might be to press in a key of slightly softer metal that deforms between the clip and the keyway, forcing it to the galling point? Unlikely to be practical with something that small.
You could make the clip detail solid then press it in? The stop pin could be a two piece screw together from each side with the center portion eccentric for adjustability ....😆
that slip in clip design is going create problems after the sale. It's going to loosen up over time. It's cool if it's a safe queen but it will be a headache if used. Change the design. Love the blade shape.That pivot ball bearing detent is genius. Listening to you talk about the design issues tells me your a perfectionist and THATS A GOOD THING.
Thought... Hard Milling the whole slot is no fun. Maybe try soft milling it and leaving material but also leave a couple tabs that connect across the slot and only have to hard mill through that section.
Awesome job, can’t you use a ball bearing style locking system on the clip system like with your pivot? Can be ramped to allow for easy engagement and disengagement and would likely stop that side to side play you don’t like.
When get that finely detailed I almost consider metal more like a liquid than a solid. It moves it does weird things it's just not the solid that people generally think it is. Edge precision did a video a while back saying how some types of aluminum will take like 2 weeks to release stress after being machined. Heat treat does do weird things and i would guess Damascus would be even more prone because it's different grades mashed together inconsistently. Even a single grade of metal say 4140 isn't exactly the same edge to edge and end to end. Everything has tolerance including the chemistry of metal as well as the production process. One side of the bar might cool a little faster than the other or whatever causing minut differences that most of us don't notice but with the fine detail you are doing might be more of an issue.
Maybe you could Loctite the clip into place. It sounds a bit janky, but it's sort of philosophically in line with the "one piece of metal" idea. At least if you ask Henkel :)
Should have made it into a sheepsfoot if you werent going for a piercing shape. A flat straight edge is so useful and underrepresented. At least it's not a inverted belly like the norseman. 😂
Instead of changing the blade parameters so that it sits flush with the sides when closed, why not just shave off the sides to match the blade height where it currently sits? Feels like it'd be easier and it'll even shave a gram or two off the total weight
i live in Grimsby... if I come to the shop, can I possibly purchase a Norseman? I've been wanting one for years... Also, love the new knife, integrals are amazing....glad you are taking that route. it looks awesome!
i mean... i'm going to visit your shop regardless... just wondering if I should bring a couple grand with me? Or am I just walking away with a t-shirt?
If you join their email list you will probably be selected within a few weeks to months (I’ve gotten the email 3 or 4 times recently) I’m sure if you got one you could pick it up in person and that would be pretty sweet!
How many years until we see the large version of this? Got to handle the 3d printed large version at Bladeshow and it is much more suited to my preferences.
I love everything but the clip. And now that I know it's not screwed into place I will likely skip this release. Not a fan of ears or it being able to slide out. The wiggle is the absolute deal breaker -- especially on a 900$ plus knife. I would have been much happier if it had conventional screws and it was just keyed into position so there was no wiggle and it was fixed into place firmly. The screws could of been countersunk so they sit flush and it would of looked just as attractive. Since this knife is integral I understand you can't hide the screws from the inside, but what I suggested would of been just fine. A single T8 that was countersink and a tongue and groove for the clip base would of probably more than sufficient.
Ill consider buying a grimsmo when they do a proper steel selection and heat treatment. Else they are overpriced. Ive handled many. They just are not worth the prices.
Everyone does a circle button for button lock change it up n do a different shape triangle or square or star instead be awesome come on know u want too lol
What! It's easier to just machine and not worry about filming? Now you know why so meany great machinist aren't you tubers. They don't have time to make videos.
The clip is pretty awesome, but it seems like the downsides of people damaging it and then blaming you guys for it is just not worth the headache. I can already see the Instagram posts and TH-cam videos with the fake outrage. Honestly, just find a way to screw it in the back or side with a t9 torx and call it a day.
![⭐ฮิตในTikTok!! ( หมูเด้ง MooDeng ) Ver. แดนซ์โจ๊ะๆ ReMix BY [ ดีเจกิต รีมิกซ์ ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3krsyfWUeHU/mqdefault.jpg)
Nice to see you posting on TH-cam again, love these deep-dive rants and explanations!
Would love to see some more Damasteel Rasks in the future!
As someone getting into knife design, it's so cool to see behind-the-scenes stuff like this!
Regarding the clip: don't use a square slot, use a triangular/conical slot so that there is zero clearance once assembled. Try this. We use this principle in our zero-tolerance assemblies at work (totally unrelated to your scenario).
My thoughts. Tapered slot! 👌🏻
Man!!! even big companies use revision control wrong! I'm thrilled that you are keeping track of the part revisions during your development: that is awsome!. Looking forward to this design!!!. Also, the effort you are putting into the tolerance stack-up and fits is superb.
Hi John,
my highest respect for your perseverance and the will to do something not just well but perfectly. I hope to have the opportunity to purchase one of your Fjells one day.
All the best to you and your team
The clip wiggling sounds similar to a woodworking problem with sliding dovetails... you need clearance to slide them together but clearance makes them move. The trick is to use a tapered dovetail instead of a straight one, so that you need much less clearance and you only need it at the very last moment. I wonder if that would work with your knife too.
For the clip could you design it so the clip gets cooled in the cryo tank then installed then when it heats up to room temp it is tighter then the .0002 tolerance you talk about.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Ferrari installs their valve seats with an interference fit. By cryo freezing them just before installation, once they warm up, they're not coming back out. If it works in a combustion chamber with a valve slamming into it thousands of times a minute, it should work fine for a pocket clip.
Yay your alive! Been a while! Can't wait to give you my money!!!
Normalising the blade steal before machining the blade for a stressfree even grain struckture beforehand could solve the warping problem. I am not realy sure how well the steel is in its raw form. Its possible the steel has some inner Stress which is released when hardening. Seems to be the case when they warp differently and are from the same bar. Thats a thing we did in Moldmaking for long parts and tight tollerances. In German its called Spannungsarmglühen.
I was thinking the same thing. We run a output housing from a forging which has 2 internal ring gear features, 2 internal bearings and 1 external bearing and when we used to go straight from forging to turning, gear cutting then heat treatment before coming back for hard turning we forever had issues with bad runout. No we send the forgings for normalising before we turn them and run out after heat treatment is virtually non existent.
Keep up the great work John, Erik and team. As much as I want the Fjell to move into production, make sure you take care of yourselves and make time for family. I am so excited to get a Fjell in my pocket. I’ve been patiently waiting since John first showed the gray plastic prototype October 26, 2022.
I am really excited for the fjell I think it is going to be a huge hit. It's nice to see all the work you put into it!
Great video 👍 Rather than hard mill ever thought about batch EDM the outer profile 😊
Thanks for making these videos! I love them!
Wow thank you for your honesty.
Cool vintage Longines .... and totally mad update on the new blades !!
I like the idea with the setscrew
That thin arc of blade with the flipper tab on it reminds me of a thermostat spring, makes sense that heat treat distortions would be most noticeable there.
Nice gridfinity box, I have all my screws in them as well. Great knife too ;)
Man what a great video - Definitely going to get one✌🏻
The integral model is looking great!
I really like this knife as an integral. The cuts in the side and not on the spine are brilliant! I look at other integrals and they either have no cuts to clear debris or they have the spine cut which negates the single construction.
Hi John! I am from Russia, I am enjoying watching your production and development, it is wonderful! I also started making folding knives and I really like it! I wish you good luck in your future projects and endeavors!
A set screw of some sort makes sense, just so the pocket clip can’t slide off. Maybe a smaller screw from the side instead of from the top/back. Good luck!
I maybe even have thought of a more complicated solution though it will still likely have play. Just like the pivot, do a ball detent on the clip with a spring. Put a hole through the frame to allow for manipulating it, though it would take a pick or similar tool to release it. Not user friendly, but could also minimize wiggle.
Man that thing is awesome. Hope to one day have one on my review channel! Great video as always.
I like the LN2 interference fit ideas. Another possibility might be to press in a key of slightly softer metal that deforms between the clip and the keyway, forcing it to the galling point? Unlikely to be practical with something that small.
You could make the clip detail solid then press it in? The stop pin could be a two piece screw together from each side with the center portion eccentric for adjustability ....😆
Consider Moldino for hard milling. Also a high end Japanese hard milling manufacturer with stock in Chicago.
That knife is beautiful but I know it will be way out of my price range. Your attention to detail is impressive, keep up the great work.
Hell yeah new Grimsmo content
Like no 41 from South Africa, power is off (storm knocked a tree down) but the Wi-Fi has a UPS so here I am watching YT
It would be an interesting experiment to see if different steels “migrate” more or less during heat treat.
that slip in clip design is going create problems after the sale. It's going to loosen up over time.
It's cool if it's a safe queen but it will be a headache if used. Change the design. Love the blade shape.That pivot ball bearing detent is genius.
Listening to you talk about the design issues tells me your a perfectionist and THATS A GOOD THING.
Thought... Hard Milling the whole slot is no fun. Maybe try soft milling it and leaving material but also leave a couple tabs that connect across the slot and only have to hard mill through that section.
Add a screw all together after sliding it in. double strong. and people wont mess with as much.
Could you not grind the back of the blade after assembly ?
Hi John, Have you ever thought of having the blades edm wire cut after heat treatment.
Maybe you can use a captive screw from the spine of the handle to secure the pocket clip in place
Awesome job, can’t you use a ball bearing style locking system on the clip system like with your pivot? Can be ramped to allow for easy engagement and disengagement and would likely stop that side to side play you don’t like.
When get that finely detailed I almost consider metal more like a liquid than a solid. It moves it does weird things it's just not the solid that people generally think it is. Edge precision did a video a while back saying how some types of aluminum will take like 2 weeks to release stress after being machined. Heat treat does do weird things and i would guess Damascus would be even more prone because it's different grades mashed together inconsistently. Even a single grade of metal say 4140 isn't exactly the same edge to edge and end to end. Everything has tolerance including the chemistry of metal as well as the production process. One side of the bar might cool a little faster than the other or whatever causing minut differences that most of us don't notice but with the fine detail you are doing might be more of an issue.
Just leave a "web' in the slot at the flipper area and hard mill that away after heat treat. You don't need the whole thing solid
Love the design. I just wish you would scale it up to make the blade at least 3.25"+
Next Machine is probably a Hauser ;)
Maybe it is a option a Heattreatment before the final milling.
Maybe you could Loctite the clip into place. It sounds a bit janky, but it's sort of philosophically in line with the "one piece of metal" idea. At least if you ask Henkel :)
Yesssss!!!
Nice! 11 seconds in
Should have made it into a sheepsfoot if you werent going for a piercing shape. A flat straight edge is so useful and underrepresented. At least it's not a inverted belly like the norseman. 😂
Bearings are riding directly onto the Ti scales? No hardened racing..?
holy shit... gotta be pricey because duh, integral. but i might have to buy it. and a norseman lmao
Quick question: is it t9?
Can‘t wait!
Could you do a stop pin that is oval instead of round? That way you can adjust the stopping position by just screw it in or out.
What if you cool the clip and the handle with dryice and when the metal expand you have less of a wiggle.
The wiggle might not be due to clearances but due to flex in tabs on the clip.
Instead of changing the blade parameters so that it sits flush with the sides when closed, why not just shave off the sides to match the blade height where it currently sits? Feels like it'd be easier and it'll even shave a gram or two off the total weight
i live in Grimsby... if I come to the shop, can I possibly purchase a Norseman? I've been wanting one for years... Also, love the new knife, integrals are amazing....glad you are taking that route. it looks awesome!
i mean... i'm going to visit your shop regardless... just wondering if I should bring a couple grand with me? Or am I just walking away with a t-shirt?
If you join their email list you will probably be selected within a few weeks to months (I’ve gotten the email 3 or 4 times recently) I’m sure if you got one you could pick it up in person and that would be pretty sweet!
How many years until we see the large version of this? Got to handle the 3d printed large version at Bladeshow and it is much more suited to my preferences.
Send it to tristate edc! Button lock connoisseur. Love it
That might be an issue currently
My clip is still holding strong, I have had it off more times than John would like lol.
Honestly I’d prefer a knife without the pocket clip. I hate the feel of them in my hand. Would be nice to have a version without the pocket clip.
Liquid nitrogen the clip for an interference fit.
Hey, John, I’m a machinist who has been watching you for eleven years. Why don’t you make a knife from damascus scrap steel and call it the Scarp?
What brand of chair are you sitting in?
I love everything but the clip. And now that I know it's not screwed into place I will likely skip this release. Not a fan of ears or it being able to slide out. The wiggle is the absolute deal breaker -- especially on a 900$ plus knife. I would have been much happier if it had conventional screws and it was just keyed into position so there was no wiggle and it was fixed into place firmly. The screws could of been countersunk so they sit flush and it would of looked just as attractive. Since this knife is integral I understand you can't hide the screws from the inside, but what I suggested would of been just fine. A single T8 that was countersink and a tongue and groove for the clip base would of probably more than sufficient.
Wiggle clip on this level of knife is not acceptable
Didn't lose me.
Ill consider buying a grimsmo when they do a proper steel selection and heat treatment. Else they are overpriced. Ive handled many. They just are not worth the prices.
two words- glock sight
Everyone does a circle button for button lock change it up n do a different shape triangle or square or star instead be awesome come on know u want too lol
Instead of square do an X with the clip that way no movement side to side it can't go anywhere bein x pattern
🎉
What! It's easier to just machine and not worry about filming?
Now you know why so meany great machinist aren't you tubers. They don't have time to make videos.
You should make firearms
Welcome to Canada. Even if they make parts, who is going to buy them? Sorry to my fellow Canadian firearm enthusiasts.
@ ya that sucks, if everyone owned a firearm the world would be a safer place
The clip is pretty awesome, but it seems like the downsides of people damaging it and then blaming you guys for it is just not worth the headache. I can already see the Instagram posts and TH-cam videos with the fake outrage. Honestly, just find a way to screw it in the back or side with a t9 torx and call it a day.
That’s an ugly knife