Cessna 340A Crash San Diego, CA 11 Oct 2021
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
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This lucid, understandable, and informed commentary is why I consider this channel an essential resource on YT. This is good journalism at it's purest. An informed observer collects available data and translates it into a narrative that can be followed by the layperson.
It's not the final NTSB report, but it is light years beyond the crap pumped out by national networks and over matched local sources. It's highly informed content delivered quickly.
That this type of resource is in conflict with YT's policies is just one more element of our national confusion about internet media.
TH-cam seems to be very afraid of stepping on the toes of paying advertisers.
I agree. TH-cam also promotes the best channels like his as well
Outstanding comment, PM. My sentiments exactly. Thanks to Juan for a clear-eyed analysis.
Well that will be one good thing about what is going down soon with regard to information access. There will be less confusion once all our media are as well - er - managed as they are in communist China.
What a great comment ! I agree !
Thanks for your analysis as always, Juan.
Thank you to your channel as well. It works well with Juans.
Thank you vasa! U do great work aswell!
Thanks for your hard work Victor!
Juan's viewers thank you for the easy to follow video!
@@blancolirio Hi JB, I agree w Victor on your work. BTW: on the Lilium (Jet/car eVTol) I mentioned and wanted your opinion on, I gave you 2 links. Q: on electric Vertical Take off and landing craft that are being developed for 2025....what is your take on it?
יוי
RIP to the 2nd person who died in this accident, UPS employee Steve Krueger. He was a 30 year UPS driver, age 61 & was set to retire next summer, 2022. He had delivered packages on his regular route in Santee for decades, was well known & loved by all his regular customers. As it was described by witnesses, the airplane wing struck his vehicle & he quickly perished from the contact.
Thanks for your post.
RIP Steve Krueger and condolences to family and friends.
(Thank you for the details, @JWWJ! I somehow missed the details of this gentleman's life.)
Good lord what a tragic set of circumstances for Mr. Krueger!!! Set to retire soon, oh my goodness. His family & friends must be in such shock...Condolences to all. RIP Mr. Krueger.
Thank you for details of Mr. Krueger, second victim in this tragedy. One can only hope he never even realized the tragic fate before him.
Unless I misunderstood a news report quoting the UPS driver's brother, I believe he was retiring Oct 22, 2021. Not summer of 2022. So it had been set to be real soon after this had occurred. So sorry for all families involved.
@@hdpro553 That is so sad. You can argue the if he had retired a month earlier this would not have happened to him. But in all honesty, we could get hit by an aircraft at any moment. I could be killed while typing this comment.
Thanks for this analysis. My aunt flew single-engine Cessna planes for 22 years and had 4,600 flight hours with her IVR and commercial ratings/licenses. Her plane crashed on June 10, 2018. She, her daughter, and 2 grandchildren were lost. This was hard to watch, but you gave me some good information on spatial disorientation.
NTSB has never issued the final report but told my cousin that they attribute the accident to spatial disorientation. It's been hard to believe since she always would say, trust your instruments, never what your see or feel. I heard her final landing radio call and read the radio transcript. There was zero sign of a problem, and a distant family member heard her plane fly over her house. She said she knew something was wrong with her engine.
Again, excellent analysis. In my flying career I suffered spatial disorientation twice, once at night in the clouds and once at Sun 'n Fun in the FAA's spatial awareness simulator. First time I was a low time Private Pilot with a fresh instrument rating, in the simulator somewhere around 10,000 hours with CFII, MEI, yadda, yadda. The "reach down and pick up the wrench (which was glued down but they don't tell you that) got me. I suffered the symptoms you describe and the only thing that allowed me to not crash was hearing my instrument instructor's voice over and over... "Trust your instruments!" I believe keeping my focus on the instruments, even when George was flying, kept me out of further trouble. Thank You for your work here!
Yeah mike, your instructor was right on by saying that. "Trust your Instruments!" I'm a CFII as well & have also flown single pilot in a large multi-engine A/C Part 135 cargo. Trust those instruments and keeping the basic scan going, while flying in IMC. Another key & simple items I would instruct my students. First "Properly Fly the aircraft", Second "Navigate", Third "Communicate" I agree with Juan, the instrument scan had completely stop & that this looks like a likely case of Spatial Disorientation.
@@ironman2536 Yeah, I flew checks at night across N & S Carolina and Georgia slogging it out in the wx in a single engine Cessna 182. Looking back from a whole different perspective... WHAT was I thinking?!!?
@@mikethompson3710 This made my laugh out loud.... because been there done that in my 20's. Now I'm almost 60 and No Way, would I do that. :))
My father was the director of safety 833rd air division. I was always fascinated as a teen when he told me how his office solved the accidents. Love your channel because of this. It is why I subscribed. He has been gone for 20 years so somehow It brings him back. Thanks
When I was a young pilot, a good friend and A&P mechanic told me to always trust my instruments. Throughout my career, every time I got disoriented I heard his voice in my head. I have always listened to his sage advice and always came through stressful events. Thank him.
The way you explain these occurrences, at least for me a simple layman, sets as if I was watching the event happen right in front of me. Thanks Juan. God Bless his soul.
I was very impressed with the ATC trying so hard to help this pilot and prevent him from crashing. Too bad he didn't have a co-pilot to help him out. Thanks, Juan.
@@MrCobb-rq8iv What?
I Listened earlier to Victor channel, and it sound 's like he was confused and not flying a lot.
Thank you Juan
I bet he wasn’t confused until the end. My guess he was distracted or possibly even ignoring the climb instructions thinking he would breakout as he probably had 100s of times and do a visual to runway 20.
He’s a commuter. I think he does fly a lot v
Radio transmissions indicated very clearly his speech getting slurred, you don’t get that when your disoriented but you do when your intoxicated or having a stroke. All the videos show the plane in perfectly clear weather below clouds when he was getting instructions to level out. You don’t get disoriented in clear weather.
@@tropicthndr Maybe but I doubt it. He responded to ATC diverting from approach course with “correcting” and similarly on altitude directions. He never said or acted like he ever had ground contact. And the very brief pics/video only showed him moments before impact below a broken to solid overcast that was still obscuring the hills in the background. His speech is can be explained by someone having vertigo and clearly not in control of his plane or understanding what is happening.
Sad a tragic and I commend the ATC guys for trying to do everything they could to save the pilot and his aircraft. Mahalo Juan.
Every pilot should experience the Bárány Chair. Excellent way to demonstrate how turning your head, or leaning forward/down can induce an involuntary reaction to a perceived acceleration.
Quality delivery from an expert who doesn’t forget to be human.
Back when I was just learning to fly in USAF pilot school, we used fly formation through the wx sometimes on the wing for an ILS through the landing. When flying as #2 your only ADI is the looking at the other airplane. It only took my ear a few minutes to lose the plot. About two minutes of being in solid IMC my ear was saying we were about to fly the ILS inverted. I knew it wasn’t right but it was a powerful sense to deal with.
As a pilot of a USAF RF-4C, and an instructor in an RTU, I have had the occasion more than once to go to the tanker in night weather as number four in a 4 ship. In joining up with the tanker I have actually felt like I was flying totally upside down. What experienced pilots do is accept the illusion knowing it’s going to happen to you, and although you don’t have the luxury of referring to the instruments, only the wingtip in the star, with the same professional discipline you assure yourself that your senses are lying to you. My guess is this experienced pilot, if he suffered from any kind of illusion, overcame that with professionalism, however sorry to say he was unable to overcome the effects of a stroke.
@@ablack7777 no, no many times I would roll my -135 inverted just to mess with you fighter types 😆
@@chrisvandecar4676 hopefully you briefed everyone to strap in first. I will tell you I’ve seen it before, and it is really tough to stay on the boom. Thank goodness for receiver Director lights
@@ablack7777 😆
Same thing happened to JFK jr. Flew into haze at night. He listened to his inner ears and not the instruments. He wasn't instrument rated.
For me, a low hour, little experience pilot, this content is extremely helpful, thank you for the efforts making it!!!
If you've never experienced spatial disorientation, it's hard to explain. RIP to the pilot and UPS driver and hopefully those injured will recover quickly. Thanks for sharing.
Single pilot, Hand flying in IMC is a pretty high workload. We don’t know the extent of newer avionics if any, but there’s no way I want to fly that approach by hand in those conditions. Whenever I expected possible imc conditions I used to get a second pilot to join me for the flight.
With modern avionics, I would make sure I am 100% proficient at using all of the tools to reduce the workload in actual conditions.
A compounding factor in this accident may be lack of currency in imc operation. Southern California has so much good weather, I’m sure it’s difficult to schedule recurrence training in actual conditions.
Add some rusty skills to a high workload, and it’s a recipe for tragedy.
San Diego weather is IMC a lot. Marine layer is very unpredictable. Anyone who flys there knows it can change at a moments notice. There is also a lot of restricted airspace due to many military bases. Being that this pilot lived in San Diego and flew to Yuma regularly for work, I’m certain that he flew in IMC regularly.
I’m not a pilot, but from what I’ve learned, there is the additional pressure of using the aircraft to commute. The “get there itis “
I fly out of San Diego. Weather is great but marine layer in am is common. I schedule flights in afternoon.
Sounds like the pilot had not set up quite right for the approach (maybe autopilot not set to ILS, or ILS frequency wrong, autopilot failed). Flown the route many times before, was possibly complacent or at least quite confident with the process.
This initial problem attempting to join the ILS threw his whole regular process/ procedure.
Autopilot off (as now he is not sure what has gone wrong- autopilot? ILS freqency?) and starts hand flying after probably not following along with the instruments in IMC as much as he should've been.
Starts to get very stressed by the fact something so "routine" (done the trip many times), has suddenly gone wrong, starts troubleshooting the problem instead of recognising the ILS recapture is not an option and just ask for or let ATC provide vectors for another go at the ILS.
Starts getting questions from ATC regarding failure to capture ILS, starts reading back ATC wrong, still puzzled as to what went wrong with the ILS intercept/ trying to hand fly when unexpectedly coming off autopilot, and it cascades from there.
This just shows you how powerful somotogravic illusions can be. I am sure as a doctor, this pilot would've been very aware of somotogravic illusions from training (we all take special interest in something that crosses over in our lives from one task to another) and he still couldn't overcome the desire to believe his ears and not his eyes.
@@hughbassoon
It makes it particularly insidious to use a sometimes demanding method of transportation, to commute back and forth to what can be a high-stress occupation.
It's not the first time that a doctor has fallen into this trap....
IDK, looking at his history, he flew that route like a machine over the past few months, at least. Literally within a couple minutes of flight time variation. Also, a lot of seat time the past few months too. Not a typical GA pilot in that regard. Busy. Like he was an airplane commuter.
Thanks for the analysis. Kudos to the controller. Rest in peace to the pilot and UPS driver. I'd heard the driver was on the cusp of retirement. Sad.
He lived in San Diego and worked in Yuma, about a 120 mile commute. I believe I heard he made the trip twice a week (not sure if that’s two round trips or two one-way trips though).
I was wondering about his familiarity with the route. Given what you say, is it significant that he appeared confused by the approach and runway instruction?
@@dougaltolan3017 My bet is that he had a medical issue. I think he knew this route very well indeed.
@@christinecortese9973 I some what agree. I think that, and possibly the circle to land instruction (which was not very common and possibly never did and was rusty on how that worked) are the two leading theories on my mind as to what threw him.
Familiarity is a killer. He probably planned his departures to arrive as the fog was breaking up. Didn’t think or even plan on an approach…breakout out at 1,500 well before even needing to be established on the ILS and do a visual to 20. I bet he had done that 100s of time. And then has his focus outside instead of on the instruments hoping to see the “sucker hole”.
I listened to the ATC comms for this flight before shuffling over to your channel Juan. My immediate response when listening to the exchange between the PIC and ATC was that the pilot 'seemed' to be completely bamboozled by the "circle to land' portion of ATC's instructions. Exactly as you point out in your assessment. However, this seems surprising if - as you suggest - he was flying this route on a regular basis between home and work. You would have thought his response to ATC on a flight he has flown dozens of times would almost be memorized by heart. Yet he seemed completely confused. I've also watched Dan Gryder's analysis of this flight and tend to agree with Dan that the video footage of the aircraft's final vector seems to suggest pilot incapacitation - there are absolutely no perceptible or attempted flight corrections across any of the three flight control axes. Over the past 12 months, I've noted a marked increase in the number of videos showing drivers passing out behind the wheel. Not to mention professional athletes in their prime collapsing on the filed. If 'getting the proverbial vapors' is becoming the 'norm' across our community - then one would reasonably expect that this could also be problem afflicting both commercial and private pilots alike. Moreover, a situation that is almost guaranteed fatal consequences for Pilots flying solo.
May God comfort the families of those that perished in this tragedy. And healing for the injured🙏
Thank you for helping regular people like me understand how and why things like this happen. Having to wait 3+ years to get some bogus jargon filled rhetoric from the FAA, virtually eliminates the possibility of real learning. I hope the YT AI doesn’t take away the valuable learning resource your channel brings to TH-cam viewers.
As so often, thanks for your analysis and combining the information from other resources. I urge TH-cam to keep you on this channel. You are an impartial analyst of aircraft incidents (and worse, sad to say). But this is needed commentary to have us all learn to do better not only in flight, but in other endeavors where "root cause analysis" of incidents is vital to prevent future catastrophes.
I personally witnessed two C421 crashes in the 80’s at Addison Airport (scanner). 1st was Oct 1984, N121BT, flown by an attorney, single pilot Day VFR. Plane sat in our hanger (Cessna Dealership) and rarely flew. He took off and lost the left engine. Climbed out to several hundred feet, got the hard part right, secured the dead engine, flew downwind, and turned into a close in left base (about a mile) into the dead engine to runway 15. He got slow, and when he dropped the landing gear, speed decayed below Vmca, and he spun in and crashed. Died in a fireball. The 2nd C421 crash, N6VR, involved a well renown Dallas neurosurgeon. He bought a 421A from our company, upgrading from a Beech Baron if I recall. He refused any flight training in it or hiring a copilot to familiarize himself with it. I remember our sales broker saying he was an idiot. He loaded his family up in the 421 for a trip to Colorado. He put no luggage in the nose baggage compartment, all luggage went in the back. On Takeoff, since the CG was way out of the aft limit, the plane pitched up and at 400 feet, stalled, into a spin, crash, fireball, in the grass next to runway 15. His wife & 2 kids trusted him. He was day VFR as well. I witnessed both mishaps from my office. Back then, aviation insurers, were not where they are today on high performance piston twins, training requirements & simulators. We don’t know what happened here with this C340, but we have an idea. For those non professional pilot’s who fly these high performance twins & singles for their business or pleasure, IFR, learn from this tragedy, the many tragedies, & my story. Kobe is another example. Had a 2nd pilot been on Kobe’s Bell 222, he would probably be alive today. He certainly could’ve afforded one. Hire a copilot when weather is IFR. It may save your life. I’ve been a Captain for 27 years, currently flying the Airbus 319, 320, & 321. Fly the plane 1st!!! Aviate, navigate, then communicate, in that order. It may save your life. Find a young, new, CFI, MEI to help you on your journey if IFR is in your forecast. And take your time when something goes wrong. Never rush. We have a threat & error management model at my airline. You have two choices, either time, or no time. The only threats really that require “no time” , get on a runway, are dual engine failure, security (terrorist), Medical or uncontrolled fire onboard. Rest of the thousands of possible mechanical problems can be worked through methodically. The lawyer I mention should have climbed to a higher altitude, flown a 30 mile downwind, flown at a speed well above Vmca, accomplished the Cessna C421 engine failure checklist, and he would have survived with a story to tell. The neurosurgeon should have hired one of us to fly with him for the 1st 50 hours or so, making sure he was proficient with all aspects of the C421 weight & balance, emergency procedures, checklist usage, peculiarities of the C421….etc. My experience with some of the ultra wealthy pilots who purchase these types of planes feel they are bullet proof & sadly the NTSB files are full of accidents that say otherwise….Miles
Juan thank you for the detailed analysis on this accident. I listened to the VasAviation recording and initially thought the pilot may have been experiencing some sort of incapacitation I just didn't connect it to spatial disorientation. Thoughts and prayers for all the families impacted in this accident.
With a 1700 (2100 msl) foot broken ceiling and a 2800 (3200 msl) foot overcast, what I see as an instrument instructor and retired ATCS is the aircraft joins the final just as he breaks out of the overcast. So he’s between layers, and asks ATC if he’s cleared for runway 23. His altitude readout goes as low as 2400 and climbs up to 3400 (back into the clouds) before the fatal descent.
I would venture that when he descends out of the overcast layer he may have seen the airport and that is why he asks if he is “cleared for runway 23?” as he begins to drift to the right. I’ve seen many low time instrument pilots and instrument students when they break out of the clouds push the nose down to get clear of the clouds.
Thank you for the information, Juan.
In my Ifr training I got disorientated on a missed approach. Stopped trusting my instruments and started going off of feelings. Its real. Please be safe pilots. Great video. Sad day. i literally just flew into Montgomery couple days before this crash and the ceiling was low. I was vfr and found a break in the clouds. Its alot of mountains over there.
Thank you, Juan. You've told us so often....so grateful for QRP. It will be such a blessing as we review these accidents in hindsight to have done all we can to limit their damage. I've been out of hospital 48 hrs after a very rough experience with the virus. It is a pleasure to find your videos! Journey mercies.
2 of my favorite channels working together.
Thanks for your analysis. Juan . I live in San Diego when that PSA plane went down I just been sleeping after getting done with my shift when I awoke boom and I guess shake of the ground I didn't what happen but I felt it and I live about 6 to 8 Miles away from impact of those two planes. I didn't remember if I got from the the news or from some of my coworkers at who were very close to area. It very scary about those planes in San Diego. I feel sorry for the pilot & UPS driver and all people in that neighborhood. My the pilot & UPS rest in peace. I hope the neighborhood can get back in the Grove living a full of life again.
Thanks for the update and analysis, Juan, it's always appreciated.
Great work by ATC when they realized the pilot was in trouble, very sad that they weren't able to save this pilot's life.
When I was a young man and at my first job in aviation, the aircraft had Janitrol heaters mounted out in the wings. Night, single pilot, B-18 all weather flying. When the Janitrol ran you cracked your side window because you could smell fumes. If it didn't start on the second try you just went without for fear that if it lit with the fuel loading from previous attempts you may blow your outer wing panel off. All that with steam gauges and coffee grinder NDB's. Finished my career on up-to-date Boeings but what memories... Those were the days, flying in the winter wearing a snowmobile suit and scraping the inside of the windows....This is not a forgiving profession for the unprepared and prayers for his family and all those affected
Thank you Mr. Brown for all you do to promote aviation safety. This latest tragic accident in San Diego is indicative of a very intelligent person getting himself into a situation beyond his control. As you well know this scenario has been played out many times before with the same tragic ending and in my opinion it begins with naive overconfidence, a complex aircraft and a situation that rapidly spirals out of control . How do you train someone for that. My heart goes out to the families involved and appreciation to you for your dedication in promote aviation safety.
So in the end, he was in a power dive.
Such a sad story.
Thank you for a great explanation Juan.
This is thee best news source.
TH-cam needs to get their head out of their poterior. Your videos make the world of aviation safer. We need to learn from the mistakes of others, lest we make them ourselves.
Great job...As a pilot (low hour)...You very eloquently and without any insult...You explained the accident that would help any good pilot trying to be better...to get better...Thanks again for sharing...
I am a non-pilot saddened by the loss of life, but fascinated by the investigation of accidents. I very much appreciate your presentation and interpretation of the data.
Thank you very much
I am not involved in aviation however I appreciate your clear explanations that will benefit the many who are in aviation.
Thank you for your great work on all the videos you post.
This was so sad to watch. Thanks for breaking it down in understandable terms for us. That he had a commercial rating seems to have been no help.
Aww, man. My favorite airplanes keep auguring in.
I love the 340, and Citation, Bonanza, and Malibu. I'm Canadian, 63, all thru the 70's 80,s I studiously read Flying magazine. Loved Richard Collins writing. Had his book, Instrument flying. Never had the financial health to reach my lofty goal of a Malibu or twin.
It so hurts every time an aircraft and occupants are lost. Many close friends :gone
Juan, I was 4mi from the crash. There was no marine layer. Clear blue sky with some puffy white clouds. Look at the video on Kathryn's report of the people being rescued from the house. You can see blue sky's and puffy clouds. And wind! The door bell cameras make it look hazy but the phone camera show a bright sunny day.
Thank you for explaining what was transpiring between the pilot and controller. By looking at the picture you get a full sense that the plane came straight down onto the truck and skidded onto the homes. Very sad ending indeed. The two people on the ground were rescued by neighbors and treated for 3rd degree burns.
Juan. I’m really thankful for your evidence based analysis. This is a great resource for pilots even though the content is sobering. Although I am not current as a pilot, I am using your videos to learn. I have studied the effects of stress on the body and your analysis is spot-on. I will add that as the stress level increases, you not only lose your hearing but also, fine motor skill, short term memory, coordination, heart rate skyrockets, and you get tunnel vision.
I live about two miles from the N9156Z crash in August 2021. You were on that crash very quickly. (Mooney M20M that had its left elevator torn off in flight and both wings folded up). It will be interesting to see, if the NTSB ever issues a report, what the findings are for that one. I think your analysis showed a likely cause.
finding one self in that position would be a terrifying experience.knowing only you can correct it & the results if you dont.meanwhile your running out of precious time to do so.the ultimate horrific situation to find yourself in.
I visited the crash site yesterday, had work in the area. It was such a sad site to see as I walked down the block towards the cordoned off area there were 8-10 UPS drivers standing shoulder to shoulder and quietly paying their respects to one of their own.
Juan, you should do an analysis of the 182 crash in San Diego 2/2018 (if you have not). Their is video of the plane climbing, descending full power in and out of clouds, another spatial disorientation crash in that same area. I think the Dr in the 182 was flying early in am in marine layer from Gillespie field. The video is very instructive as you can see how disoriented the pilot was…RIP.
You reported of the causes not being and leaving it up to us to speculate the possibilities of what caused this fatal crash, knowing about the current circumstances that all of us pilots and others are being faced with to decide.
Easy to see how the confusion and panic can build quickly. Sounds like the John Kennedy Jr. situation, even though his issue was not clouds but total darkness over the ocean.
It was so distressing to just hear that moment when ATC asked to climb to 5000 and Dr. Das read his meter both times the one 2,500 and the last 2,000, before the chopper reported the crash. There's a similar crash a few years ago, that a pilot had described related to disorientation. He too said the same thing about trusting the instruments more than the "feeling" during these brain fogged seconds.
I have a massive amount of respect for pilots on our planet. Please don't overwork yourselves. Trust your NG decisions at all times. You all are some of the "extremely valuable humans" on Earth, in my heart. Other than surgeons and ATCs, of course. Jobs that require level-headedness while being hypervigilant to multiple factors.
So sad, such a terrible tragedy but serves as a great reminder of just how difficult it is to pilot an aircraft successfully 🥲
Spatial D is a real phenomenon. Sad out come for this pilot! Great information and break down Blancolirio!
Another great report. It is a shame that You Tube feels the need to threaten you when you are providing the flying and non-flying public with timely information and analysis about these unfortunate incidents.
So, so tragic. The big lesson for me here to make absolutely sure I am familiar with the approach I am going to do, AND be prepared for possible circle to land instructions and so on! I get the impression that he has flown this route and path enough times that he "should" have been pretty familiar with it and just about everything about it.
Juan is absolutely right. The parasympathetic reaction to extreme stress in the fight-or-flight response unfortunately affected and overcame this pilot. RIP sir.
Yeah... very sad indeed. I could sense the emotion in your commentary Juan. You are a great presenter, giving clear detail and your knowledge of aviation is amazing. I am always impressed by the humanity in your videos.
Great job Juan. Thoughts and prayers to all affected. Ifr flight is not something to take lightly, and a fragile skill. Be careful out there all evaluating your own abilities.
Thanks Juan for this summation of what is known at this point. Professional as always. Sorry TH-cam is giving you such grief. Unfortunately General Aviation is giving you multiple opportunities to share your expertise and your informed observations. Hopefully your insight and observations will help other pilots and help to lessen future events such as these. Thanks for all you do to keep aviation safe.
I own a 310Q and can certainly sympathize with the poor PIC. These tip-tanked twin Cessnas are slippery and hard to stay ahead of if you're not absolutely current. During an IMC approach in busy airspace fighting coms, engines, nav, descent checklists, etc. it's very easy to get overwhelmed and start panicking.
A very obvious comment my instructor once told me. "never rely on your own sense of balance and equilibrium when in cloud. It will let you down every time"
I dont understand why YT would interfere with J. Report. Im sure advertisers appreciate his insight.
Outstanding analysis Juan!
Good work. Feel really bad for everyone involved
The entire deck was stacked against him. You have to be very proficient in the use of the autopilot in relieving a lot of the workload. Setting up well out from the airport, on heading, altitude, airspeed, instruments and autopilot properly set up, familiarization of the final approach, minimums, etc. so you don’t have to do anything but make small incremental changes. My doctor partner didn’t do this in our A-36 and died in an almost identical situation to this MD. only difference is it was night and weather.
I haven't read all 2,000 plus comments, but mostly good insights. I studied the pilot/Dr. last few flights and its rather obvious he used the autopilot most of the time with little hand flying. Perhaps his skills at hand flying were degraded and the likelyhood of spatial disorientation was increased further contributing for spatial disorientation. Hand flying and feeling the effects of maneuvers induced by the pilot might improve the pilot's ability to recover from such disorientation. As Juan said, the pilot became very stressed when he blew through the localizer and didn't understand the circle to land instruction to R23. Studying and being familiar with the approach charts prior to flight is a good idea.
Wow, thank you for this commentary, very interesting.
Always learning. Juan is the best!
Great analysis Juan. Lots of questions though about how current or proficient the pilot was regarding ILS approaches, was a circling approach a common procedure at this airport, and if so, why was the pilot so caught off guard by the procedure? Such a sad thing, one that was surely preventable.
Great analysis. Sounds like you are spot on. Condolences to friends/family of the pilot and UPS driver. When I was a flight instructor in Ohio years ago I would take primary students on cross countries near Lake Erie. Took advantage of the lake to do unusual attitude training. I would have them put their head down and point the airplane towards the lake. Put the airplane in a climbing or descending steep turn. They would look up and be completely lost as there was very little discernible horizon. After about the third time they could transition to the instruments and figure out what was going on and properly correct the attitude of the airplane. Had some interesting moments the first time I would hand the airplane back to them. They usually couldn’t believe how easy it was to get completely disoriented. They were expecting to see the ground somewhere. Nope.
Fascinating analysis as always sir. Tragic situation.
Wow. Great info from this channel. I was paying attention to this when it happened on the flight radar app and it’s very tragic and very interesting at the same time. Again just great info here and really helps people like me understand how this could happen. Thank you
I was waiting to hear your take on this tragic accident because I knew you would give clear, concise information as always. No fluff, just facts.
Look at it from a different perspective: he breaks out just before the intercept (the ceilings and fix altitude say that's likely). He sees the runway, knows he has to jog right to get on final for 23. So he turns right while configuring for landing, and asks ATC to confirm he is cleared for 23. Instead of questioning, ATC somewhat rudely tells him to go missed, which puts him back in the clouds in a turn, and starts feeding new vectors. Total change in attitude and configuration required, which is a huge workload. Spatial disorientation follows. Everyone is praising ATC but they didn't do him any favors until it was way too late.
At what point on the 28 approach do you start circle to land? He was about 10 miles out when he crossed back a crossed 28 ils.
@@MrScubacat In my experience, whenever you call field in sight they will break you off and clear you for the visual on the other rwy. I don't know of any approaches that require you to fly the ILS to MDA before you can break off. That's way more dangerous since you are maneuvering for a different runway while low and slow. Much safer to break off the minute you are VMC. Circle to lands are somewhat of an informal approach, just used to get you in the ballpark of the right rwy, using another rwy ILS.
If he broke out and was looking for the runway visually, he likely was not prioritizing the localiser so it's easy to overfly. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, the only reason to ask if he is cleared to 23 is because he's maneuvering to 23 (unless he's completely confused, but up to that point he was just fine, albeit a bit timid and behind).
Great explanation, always rely on my instruments when in impaired visibility. Your channel and Mentor have fortified my belief in my instruments.
Speaking from a wealth of experience, I thought the pilot sounded intoxicated. Probably, disoriented in the sky could sound similar. Thanks for the videos!
Having grown up in a part of London that has a very large Indian and Pakistani community I'm quite used to hearing even the strongest of their accents and I thought that he sounded possibly somehow intoxicated or impaired. That said, it could just be the way he was talking on the radio whilst doing a million things all at once in a small angry flying metal tube
Task saturation sounds very similar, your brain is literally distracted with such a stressful load your not used to, speech is not a priority and very abbreviated. If you ever started training for IFR in actual IMC with your instructor and ATC yelling commands at the same time you’d understand.
He was clearly behind the aircraft and understandably nervous, but otherwise he sounds like half my family, with that same characteristically rapid, under-enunciated, even slightly slurred-sounding Indian-with-a-twist-of-American accent that I’ve heard my entire life.
Wow. As a musician (and part time scenery maker for X-Plane) who likes aviation, when I go into a cloud on X-Plane, I start screaming. I cannot begin to imagine what it's like what you guys go through. (Excuse my English - Brazil here). Amazing videos and analysis, thank you so much.
Great analysis. I have flown a 340 twice, once in a check flight after maintenane and the second as a delivery flight. Both times VFR. It is a very nice, stable aircraft. Total flight time in aircraft 45 minutes, not much.
i am not a pilot- but complacency is similar in any situation-- as a retired Semi-truck driver and motorcycle rider-- in BOTH training classes i was CAUTIONED that the 1st 6months are usually safe- BUT after 6months or so- many drivers get complacency about their skill level- in this case the pilot is a rich Doctor commuting every day or maybe once/week 45minutes in a fancy plane- that kind of mundane activity makes complacency a likely issue-- seeing all these private plane crashes makes me think the training needs to be increased!!!
I worked in a lumberyard wood shop throughout HS and college. At first, indeed, the machines with big blades and drive belts with metal teeth for grabbing wood were terrifying. No chance of injury early on! Once you get comfortable with machines that can eat you in an instant, that's when the trouble can start. As you know from your driving it takes a lot of mental energy to stay focused and alert during long boring stretches of work. Thankfully I was able to do it well enough to still have all my fingers.
He was IFR rated, but begs the question.....how current was he on instruments? It's possible that he had not flown IFR for months, and you need to stay current or those skills atrophy rather quickly. Very sad.
Rule number #1 fly the plane. If you have an emergency, loose orientation, get behind curve, always revert back to rule#1. Scan rate and looking at your attitude, airspeed, climb rate, engine status and power control. Forget about ATC - radio - all other issues once you lose focus and go back to first are my wings level and can I maintain level flight either by looking outside or by my instruments, than can I maintain altitude at level flight, than am I at the right airspeed and can I maintain the correct speed for my flight level. Begin to sort out the emergency or coms or situational awareness after controlled level flight is achieved. This pilot was unable to go back to rule#1 after weather, coms, instruments, other factors changed his priority and distracted his scan rate to be sure he knew the attitude of his ship.
The pilot had upgraded the equipment in that plane. He was very meticulous from what I have read and spared no cost for that plane.
Based on the way I fly a Cessna in MS Flight Simulator, I know for a fact I should not be allowed to even look in the direction of a cockpit.
But even though I know I'm a dope when it comes to aviation, I would think that if I couldn't see anything but clouds, my eyes would be glued to the instruments.
Excellent presentation. I appreciate you juan.
The supervisor jumping in was scary, they knew this wasnt going well.
Thanks Juan. Your explanation of the diminishing functions - the ever-decreasing circle of focus - explains so much. It's difficult for the layman (like me) to process the idea that under spacial disorientation (SD) and seeing the ground approaching, you cannot then correct. One would think that the logic of sight and rapidly approaching ground would override the SD, but clearly not. Is there a mental way to recognize the onset of SD and "push" your way out of it?
Excellent info Juan thank you ! Learning experience for all.
That whole approach area around Gillespie is hilly. And the skies including the approach to Montgomery field can usually maintain a fair amount of marine layer that typically burns off and comes back in the afternoon. What I haven't heard yet is how often he has made this trip. And I'm assuming quite often, if he lived in SD, and worked in AZ. It is a little surprising that a routine trip could have made him so unaware of his actual positioning/altitude/attitude. So tragic for all involved.
I wonder if it’s possible to capture his previous flights to Montgomery to see how handled it, how he sounded, etc.
He lived in SD and worked in Yuma, commuted back and forth constantly. Owned two airplanes and was instrument rated. The marine layer weather is a constant for half the year every year, anyone who flies around there is familiar with it. Looking at the somatographic aspects of the 767 cargo flight in Houston that did about the same maneuver as this Cessna, but into a lake ... it's clear that the tendency to become disoriented in these kinds of approach-marginal weather scenarios is pretty strong and pretty deadly. As a former CFI I am inclined to look at this as a training issue, and I would consider regulatory change regarding single-pilot IMC operations of this type. I see a pattern here that was quite recognizable when I was instructing and doing a lot of check rides for all manner of GA pilots ... people treat the airplane as if it were just a fast car. A quick way to get home or get to a business meeting. They don't realize that they can quickly ... in seconds or minutes ... get themselves into situations that will eat their lunch. You can tell them that, plan ahead, don't get caught in a scramble to fly and navigate and do an approach and deal with weather because that's going to put you in a very high risk situation. But they don't listen. They just don't listen.
Wow,.am glad I dropped out of flight training now. Horrible way to go,.spacial disorientation
Really unfortunate that some people have that mindset. I'd much rather be a little late because I had to divert to another airport due to imc than to get caught up in spatial d and never make it. I hope I never find myself in a situation like this
That controller was incredible, did everything he could to help that pilot. Bravo sir, bravo!
Imagin seeing it on the radar… begging him to climb… he says I’m climbing… then seeing he isn’t and begging again please climb… then have a helicopter say the plane just hit some houses…. 😳
Agreed, must be a terrible feeling. :'(
I don't get it they said he was a flight instructor as well. How could he fail to see his instruments all begging him to climb and the controller as well. He either seriously lost it for some reason or had no business flying.
@@xcalibertrekker6693 Please don’t judge or criticize too harshly per Juan’s request. Remember the pilot’s family could still read this.
Even the most experienced pilots can and do lose their spatial orientation. It sounds like the doctor failed to set up his autopilot to establish on the localizer then took over and began hand-flying in IMC with conflicting traffic and stressed about blowing his approach…. One minor mistake leads to another and another, and it all just snowballs until it becomes a disaster.
@@jaanfo3874 You may be right but he was being directed by ATC as well and failed to heed multiple warnings. He is lucky he only murdered one innocent person just doing there job. Your also just making excuses one mistake does not always lead to another.
RIP fellow Pilot, and thanks to the controller trying to safe him.
Both of those controllers tried like heck. They saw the problem the PIC could just not comprehend.
What about the ups driver? No rip?
@@TugIronChief This is not a “doctor” problem: it is a huge problem within GA regarding spacial disorientation. If you watch till the end Juan does a great job of explaining the effects of it on ones ability to comprehend what is happening.
@@TheBeingReal Maybe being a doctor exacerbate the issue? Maybe it's a cultural thing? Maybe doctors own more airplanes than most other jobs? Maybe doctors commute using airplanes more than other categories? It does seem like it is related to doctors in more than one way, some airplanes are known as "doctor killers" for several reasons.
@@Shadow__133 RIP ups driver!
Great and detailed explanation Juan, sad ending for sure, thoughts to his family and the family of the UPS driver
Definitely. I smash the like button as soon as I click on Juan's videos because they are always top notch!
He struggled with his plane, look at altitude changes before the crash. It probably was more than just disorientation. He clearly noticed all instructions. Sad thing is also those hundreds of airfields on people's backyards. It would be better to get them a little bit further. My deepest condolences to the families of the victims of the crash.
I have to admit this one tore me up. When I read that the UPS driver was just months from retirement and saw the photos of him just enjoying life, I started sobbing. I read the wing tip clipped his truck. Just seconds before or after could have made all the difference. I am so sad.
Agreed, tragic for the UPS "package car" driver as well as the aircraft pilot. Also thoughts and prayers for the burn victims on the ground.
I had the same reaction. Upset me for several hours.
Sad for the UPS driver and family. He seemed enthusiastic as a "model" employee.
Add one of the injured ladies being pulled from the wreckage of her home crying out for her puppy, horrible tragedy.
Just to note, the damage to the UPS truck appears very severe. I don't think poor Mr. Krueger felt a thing as it appear the entire left side of the truck from the engine back to the left rear tire was destroyed by impact forces followed by the wreckage continuing into the front of the nearest house. The impact was so forceful it cracked a fire extinguisher directly adjacent to the UPS truck.
I hope not, but it's possible you can see his remains next tot he truck in this video: th-cam.com/video/sVaGU1AVQDE/w-d-xo.html If so, he was likely killed instantly by the impact, as if that's a body it's not a whole body.
I think ATC did an excellent job. They obviously realised the pilot was well behind the drag curve, and with close monitoring gave the minimum of short, simple, clear instructions to try to help him catch up. They did everything they could short of climbing in next to him.
I didn't hear them say "pull back more on the yoke"
@@millomweb I should hope they didn't ... depending on the circumstances like bank angle and airspeed that could have made things even worse. Instead they had the presence of mind to make things simple and told him to straighten up and climb on current heading..... exactly the thing you're taught in UP recovery.
The pilot was having a stroke. Little wonder he was behind the aircraft
@@homomorphic I guess that is possible
@@davidpowell3347 it's pretty obvious from the comms. He flies this route every day as he commutes from his house in SD to Yuma so he knows the routine like the back of his hand, yet his interactions with ATC are bonkers. He's in a high stress job so high blood pressure isn't unlikely.
I do not have an IFR rating, but I did a few hours some years ago. I was not cocky, but confident based on my years of VFR. Our first time in the cockpit, the instructor put a hood on me and covered the turn/bank and artificial horizon, then gave me instructions as if he was ATC. A couple mins in I was trying to get the altimeter to agree and then, he said, "I've got the airplane!!" The part that blew my mind was when he "saved" us from disaster, it felt to me like he was violently banking and climbing like I was on a rollercoaster. My head was all made up I was doing the right thing...but not. Total respect for IFR training!!
This crash looks similar to JFK Jr.
When I did my GFPT I had already had a couple of hours instrument flying, but it was all short stints of do this do that. Fly this direction, climb to this descend to that. What the tester did was have me fly a full 360deg circle with the hood and then simply asked me to fly straight and level.
It creates that conflict between your inner ear and eyes. Remember a rate 1 turn is a 1G turn at 15 deg. bank. Your ear says your at a 15deg bank and your eyes say flat and level. So the moment I tried to fly straight my inner ear went bat crap crazy and it takes effort to say NO the instruments are right and fly to them. It lasts about 30-40 seconds.
Later after the test I discussed this with the flight tester and he told me its one of the best ways to actually test new pilots to see if they were actually listening to their instructors and learning. Its the flight test just before you are allowed solo away from the airport into the training area and they want to know you can get back.
If you get the chance do it with an instructor. Its a safe easy way to learn what the effect feels like.
@@antman5474 It’s a very común training practice, to show the student what can happen when you loose a instrument. If you aren’t prepared you die.
@@antman5474 When you are training for IFR rating it is common for instructors to block off certain instruments based on how the instruments operate. Some instruments need a vacuum source to operate, some require only an electrical source, some operate on airflow, etc. IF one of these systems fail you could have 1 or MORE instruments that will not operate properly, for example a vacuum pump failure. This is called 'partial panel" IFR and if this happens in real life, in real IFR conditions, you will be lucky to get the airplane on the ground in one piece. The pilots who survive a real world partial panel in IMC conditions typically have generous personal minimums and their flight plan already includes diverting to an airport with favorable VFR conditions.
@@antman5474 - Valid question. This being my first time, the instructor was simply demonstrating how easily and quickly it can be to get into big trouble, despite my existing VFR training and experience. Immediately after those initial few minutes of wild flying, he began a great IFR training regimen. Alas, my family and I was relocated PCS to a new location (U.S. Govt) and I never did pick up where I left off. But the little training I did get has been quite valuable during my continued years of flying.
Spatial disorientation is a powerful thing. During my ppl training my CFI put me under the hood and had me put my face in my lap. He then flew the plane up, down, left, and right for about 30 seconds, then had me look up at the instruments and take control. We were in a descending turn according to the instruments, so I dutifully leveled the wings and brought us straight and level. OMG, the instruments were dead level, but my senses were telling me not just that we were tilted, it felt like I was in the process of falling down! It took everything I had to concentrate on the instruments and keep us right-side-up. If I had been in a less controlled situation, by myself, in IMC, I can't swear I wouldn't end up like the poor chap in the 340. I recommend anyone who hasn't had the experience to go up with a CFI and ask him or her for a demo. I guarantee it will be more fun for the CFI than for you.
Have the sick sack handy! But do experience it, I’d say.
My instructor did the same thing when I was training for my ppl. But when he told me to level off I just moved the controls until it felt good, not looking at the instruments. Then he had me look up. One of the best lessons I’ve ever learned!
We did an exercise where I closed my eyes and he flew the plane. Every few seconds I would tell him what I thought the plane was doing. Man, he was putting that thing through it's paces.. up, down, left, right, etc... I was expecting the flight track to look like spaghetti but I'll be damned... it was just a descending right turn the whole time!
I really did enjoy that during my training.
My favorite was on my checkride, DPE had me close my eyes and try to fly by feel. After a bit he says recover and we were in descending or climbing turn.
It's even harder to fight 'The Leans' in real IMC.
Had one lesson when it was smokey, like really smokey, MVFR, flying by instrument and looking out and seeing nothing but smoke, you learn how it's better to stay out of IMC if you don't have an IFR rating.
I was fighting The Leans really hard that flight.
Better still...get your instrument rating. Flying in the system is ultimately easier, faster, more convenient, safer, and hones flying skills quickly
I don’t know if it’s true but, on another channel where we were discussing this, someone came on and stated that the pilot had a commercial certificate, multi-engine land, multi-engine instrument rating, and was prepping for the ATP certificate. I don’t know if this is accurate but, if so, it’s very hard to understand what happened. There was, at worst, a thin overcast layer (though it doesn’t appear to exist in the video that shows the final seconds of the flight). The crash occurred at 12:18pm and the 11:53 KMYF METAR was 1,700 broken, 2,800 overcast. That’s AGL and KMYF is at about 400 feet MSL so, to get to MSL (to compare to ATC instructions, pilot responses, and the instrument approach chart) add 400 feet to get 2,100 MSL broken, 3,200 overcast. I fly out of Southern California (KLGB) so I’m very familiar with the marine stratus. Usually though, it dissipates by the time that the crash occurred and it appears that it is doing so in the video. My experience is that’s it’s usually on the order of 1,000 feet thick. So it was not, by any means, “hard IFR.” And, I don’t know what the panel was like in the C340 but, even if it was steam gauges and vacuum pumps that (both?) failed, a pilot with the credentials I mentioned should have had no problems with it. Of course, I have no idea about his currency, time in actual IMC, etc. I initially speculated that he was new in the airplane, new (or at least far from being current) in actual IFR and suffered spatial disorientation upon entering the overcast layer. The information (if it’s accurate) makes me think there must have been a different explanation. There is also speculation that the pilot suffered a hypoglycemic event. My ex-wife was a Type 1 diabetic and when she became hypoglycemic, there were three standout symptoms: 1) slurring of speech; 2) loss of coordination; 3) complete unawareness that it was happening. Hopefully, in the end, we find out what happened (though Dan Gryder probably already knows). Finally, may the pilot and the UPS driver rest in peace and my prayers for all of those affected by this tragedy.
very true about a hypoglycemic incidents, you go from normal to disoriented in seconds, and you can't just go lay down in the middle of flying
He had a first class medical. Is it even possible to be diabetic and have a first class? That's what you're talking about right?
@@joematties7557 It’s possible to have a serious hypoglycemic episode without diabetes, I used my ex-wife as an example just to describe the symptoms. I’m not an aviation medical examiner and I only have a third class medical, but I doubt very much that you can get a first class medical even with Type 2 diabetes, almost certainly not with Type 1. Also, I’m not contending that this is what happened. That was someone’s speculation and IF it happened, it would definitely explain the result. The fact that he had a first class medical lends credence to the commenter’s statement that he was going for his ATP. I don’t have that certificate (of course, Juan does) but, as I understand it, much of the practical is based on systematic instrument flying to very strict standards and proficient handling of emergencies. Maybe Juan can comment. But it’s hard to understand how he ended up in this situation if he was in the midst of training to pass such a practical. But I’m sure that Dan will find that it was caused by the NTSB.
@@TIO540S1.. NTSB will release 'causation..... indeterminate Years from incident.. ;{
re; DG's repeated summation, in order to cattle prod.. improve the system.
Hopefully isolating G Aviation from common transportation.. IM(including others)HO. ;}
@@blogengeezer4507 Yes, I know what Dan is doing and, much of the time, I agree not only with his opinion but also with his presentation. But he does sometimes jump to conclusions based on paltry or nonexistent evidence, and states his conclusion with certainty and with volume. It reminds me of the Lieutenant in 48 Hours talking to Nick Nolte. “Just because you say it with conviction, it don’t mea s**t to me!” I could go on a long explanation of why some of Dan’s criticisms of the NTSB are off base but this isn’t the place for it. In fact, I should never have brought it up here and I’d edit it out but then people wouldn’t understand your comment. To Juan, I apologize for taking the thread off topic.
I have similar ratings, and time in a similar aircraft (C414-Steam Gauges) in my history, and single pilot IFR in a turbocharged piston twin makes you a very busy guy. I was doing this in my 20's. Throw in being at the end of a work week and a few more years of age, and I would have thrown in the towel when circle to land was offered. Another pilot crashed the 414 I used to fly, trying to circle to land in Detroit. Going missed in that aircraft not only gives a big shove as the power comes in, with a big change in noise, it also means the pilot needs to make changes in throttle, propellers, mixtures, flaps, gear, cowl flaps and pitch trim while controlling airspeed, turning to (and remembering) a new heading and climbing to (and remembering) a new altitude. The only thing this guy didn't get thrown at him was a frequency change. When he was already task saturated by the approach and trying to plan the circle to land, he didn't have enough to pull it all off.
I lost control of a Seminole that didn't stay right side up while I was changing frequencies, IFR one night, and am only here because I was more than 2,000 feet from the ground when it started, and I got it out of the bank and climbing after loosing less than that...when the wings were finally level my head was in a 90 degree left bank, and it took me 30 seconds of flying off in the wrong direction to even be able to talk to the controller again. He had been silent the whole time, and when I checked in, he asked "Are you alright up there?" I said, "I am now, thanks" I got a number to call when I went over to ground after touchdown - scared me almost as bad as the disorientation - it was the controller that had been working me, just wanting to understand what had happened - no threats of any violations - even though I had failed to maintain cleared altitude or heading, and probably even exceeded legal bank and pitch limits. When you "feel" like the wings are level and the nose is high, but the airspeed (and wind noise) is winding up, the altimeter is winding down and the compass is spinning it's hard to even figure out which way you are turning, to get the wings level - the turn and bank, DG and artificial horizon (I hadn't even heard of an attitude indicator at the time) are all trying to tell you, but all you can see is death coming for you.
It could have been me. It won't be, because I am now old, and I no longer think I can do anything that is legal to try.
lucky man. glad you made it outta that one. Ugh. So scary!
Good explanation of everything involved in operating that type of plane (414).
It's sad, this kind of disorientation could be somewhat solvable with avionics. The plane could sense anomalous attitudes and at least attempt to return to wings level without human intervention.
@@davedoe6445 Some newer autopilots have a blue wings level button for just that situation. Great life-saving feature.
@@MrCobb-rq8iv It depends on type of aircraft.
Back in my cfi days I recall students getting spatial disorientation during ifr training, and they would tell me what they were experiencing. I had it one night as a cfi while instructing. I chuckled to myself since it was the first time I experienced it, and knew exactly what it was. I chuckled more in disbelief, because the feeling was so STRONG that I was in a climbing turn when we were straight and level! I cross checked the panel, student was flying, and said to myself, “trust the panel”. I’d also try some spacial disorientation exercises at night with students vfr over dark areas. I wanted them to feel and experience it the first time on a dual flight than alone single pilot…..
Yep, you are absolutely right CS. Same thing happens to me on a night flight. I had just took-off. In my mind I was climbing straight out and level. We flew through “Few clouds at 800’” my wife asked “are you turning?” I third her “no fling straight out” she said well I think your turning.” I looked down at my attitude indicator and I was indeed in an unintentional 15 degree turn to the right.
“Trust your instruments”
That's why it's a bit annoying to hear people in their comfy chairs asking why didn't the pilot look at his instruments? If it was that simple.... In order to get people understand the unimaginable magnitude of spatial illusions, I recommend them to close their eyes, do 10 turns around as fast as they can, and then open their eyes and try to walk straight, or kick a ball. They won't be able to do it for a few seconds. Despite clearly seeing the environment around them, it will take time to bring the middle ears' tricked motion signals under control. And pilots have to do this with only tiny instruments in front of them. It's more than just looking at it, it's about building it up in your head, and illusions make that rather difficult.
Those low light night flights are perfect for exactly that, students benefit so much from us showing them what no reference to aircraft orientation does to your senses.
Why I did aerobatics to hone my skills for unusual attitudes and to be able to recover. Ego and pride is deadly
@@rnzoli Agreed. Even the most capable and experienced pilots need only about 45 seconds without visual references before they become disoriented.
I was at work down the way it sounded like a bomb when it hit.
Thoughts and prayers for the UPS driver and the pilot and the family and friends, as well as the people on the ground that had to endure this horrible event.
I read this comment and just now realized that the very loud BOOM that I heard off to the west of my location while outside during my lunch break was in fact this very tragic accident. My heart cries with sadness for everyone affected by this event.
And hats off to the brave neighbors who pulled the people from the burning house and looked for others. All are hero's and God bless them.
Doc was a good friend, I feel like I should add Juan that he did have a whole lot more in his panel than what the purchase pics show. As allways thank you for your analysis.
....?
@@m118lr What in his comment is vexing you?
@@SpookyFow What does time in his panel mean? It is not sensible English. How would pics indicate IFR time? Or was the panel upgraded? And that is measured by labor time? This crash looks like the JFK Jr crash, BTW.
@@kentbetts He didn’t say “time in his panel.”
@@kentbetts Juan showed a picture of the Cessna with a basic cockpit.@Benjamin Ramos is saying that he probably had it modernized.