I love when you rant because it gives me the reality check: It's not me, it objectively SUCKS dealing with cvs and subs. Also if they advertise this line as good with dealing with subs and it actually sucks it needs to be said, its only fair. You just say what needs to be said. The dockyard being a second battle pass enlighten me, how I didn't think about it. Good vid.
If you asked Wargaming to build a better mousetrap, they would nerf cats and make mice 30% larger, 25% more agile, and venomous. They would then point to the higher percentage of mice dying to traps versus cats and claim that mousetraps are greatly improved. Within a year there'd be 600 different colors of WG mousetrap, they'd be 80$ each, and birds would get a stealth buff.
I can feel your frustration PQ. I use to play this game all the time before the CV change. Was so much fun. Even spent couple hundred dollars on crates, BUT I cannot just find myself to play it anymore. I loaded game up last year to try it out again, and got shotgunned by a sub in my WV. I was like NOPE. Uninstalled again. I know you vested in it and want to stay. I just have no hope for WG
I used to play this game a lot before the CV changes. It was annoying, but not unbearable, so I played less but still played. But the submarines ruined it for me. It is so frustrating to get nuked by something you either didn’t know was there, or couldn’t do anything about. Now I pretty much only come back for things like Asymmetric Battles, because it lets me avoid that stuff. I want them to follow the Russian server and add tier 9-11 to operations and I’ll play those more. Yes I’m gonna grind Wisconsin because of how dirt cheap it is in comparison to all the $100+ “early access” events and loot boxes and other bullshit. This game used to respect its players. Wish it would again.
Subs are easy kills, we get it you dont want them in game but, they are not bad and with the new nerfs, they are pretty much unplayable, which is what the anti sub community wanted. It was never about balance. Sub damage has never broken any damage records.
@@ManOfChaiTeaImagine playing a pure griefer class like submarines, then play the victim when you suddenly have to put some basic level thought into positional play. Sub damage never broke records because a large portion of the sub players are terrible and kill themselves in 5 minutes. The issue is when a semi- competent player is commandeering a sub, even literal KOTS winners are getting bullied without any meaningful counterplay. They are just a terrible design. CV rework all over again.
This reminds me of my experience with the UK heavy cruisers; way squishier than I'd expect heavy cruisers to be, are slow and sluggish and guns that seem to do very little damage, especially Albemarle and Drake (I know Drake is 234mm). The T8 Commonwealth seems to be a direct copy/paste of Albemarle. The smoke does make me a little hopefully it'll be a less awful experience than the UK CA's but I expect these to be fairly mediocre.
I liked Drake. Albemarle is awful though. The only success I found with Albemarle was ambushing BBs, since it has excellent torp angles. I grinded Drake in T9 ranked and found it to be awesome in those situations. Though Goliath is by far king of the line. I quite enjoy Cheshire too, since the guns actually feel nice.
Don't know what subs your referring to but a real loom would show 99% of subs fully submerged travel 25knotts or lower whilst 99% of BBs on surface travel 30knots or higher. Subs on surface depending on tier go around 25 to 28knots whilst BBs depending on tier go 22 to 35knots. Tier for tier, BBs are always faster than subs surfaced or suvmerged in almost all cases. Bar 1 sub, U4501, it has 12 or 14 thousand hp, I don't care about saturation BS it doesn't really count or make real different unless it's splash damage. 3 well placed, 2 depth charge per plane ASWs ends the sub. All subs underwater are about as movable as BBs relative to thier size, they slow as much if not more in turning, making it near impossible to evade good placed depth charges. Unlike BBs and other ships, subs receive damage from splash damage from shells and asw and depth charges. Ships don't suffer from splash damage at all. In a real sense, torps are a subs only offence and defence, homing torps are 1/2 the damage and dumbfired a d are now detected earlier, easier to evade and require a sub se d those torps at a range beyond 5 to 6km away because the ping surface indicator now includes direction of travel and stays on surface 2x as long. Asw planes attack 2x faster dealing almost 2x the damage be it splash or on the head damage. Dumbfired are slower but can't track, shorter range, usually well within detection range and can't be fired whilst underwater. So in short, there is a reason why current WG stats show a decrease across the board when it comes to subs and the damage previously caused vs the current damage of around 10%. That was after the first sub nerfs, after the second one they are still tabulating data but it's expected to equal to or even more reduction. The previous stats prior to 1st.nerfs included all those apparant OP subs that used shotgunning and scored highest rank in multiple game that you all cried about, but 10% wouldn't make the sub op given the actual damage output, the vulnerable nature of subs against any munitio n the reliance on oxygen rate to stay below surface , the 6 to 8km spotting radius. Now sub servalance upto 12km although most homing torps are 10km.
I would argue that module is more effective against the destroyers because they're the only ones that tend to deal full damage through the actual ASW splash, whereas most of the battleships and cruisers tend to do it with flooding as the main damage point
@@smolnoodle for me i find that vs good subs i get way more damage out of perma fire/flood from a good 2nd drop than needing from direct alpha damage sure i do get quite a bit from the first hit but for me thats often not what does the sub in. most of my kills against subs (not the braindead ones) is from exhausting their dcp and using the oil slicks for perma flood/fire kills where a direct hit is less common as they tend to hide harder after the first big slap the new cruiser is quite good for the perma flood strategy against subs as the extra drops allow you to just overload their dcp like the old British battleships before the nerf
So what is the diff between playing this and playing the Goliath or Zao? Not much from what I see, other than smoke and an underwater radar. I got a feeling that a Goliath or Zao would be a much better experience And no, it's not a rant. It's nice to know that my views on subs & CVs are being represented by a respectable CC
Goliath has better HE, better AP, better armor, and a super heal. Zao has better armor, better concealment, better torps, better HE, better AP, way better accuracy, it also has sub surveillance, has much better maneuverability, and it's faster. So just play Zao
You know, something I've been feeling about cruiser AP, since the Dutch line (starting at Haarlem) I've been finding newer cruiser AP really lackluster, granted I'm likely spoiled because of US Super Heavy AP, but even the 283s on the Golden Lion AP wise feel, underwhelming. So, I'm not surprised these new Commonwealth cruisers are punching below their weight, it really drives home my feeling that WeeGee doesn't paly their own game, or if they do, they play a different version from the rest of us.
It’s not just the AP that feels different from old ships. I’ve been playing older heavy and large cruisers lately, and I have to say that WG just doesn’t want to make heavy cruisers feel like heavy cruisers anymore. How heavy cruisers used to be - more accurate, more maneuverable, and faster firing but are less damaging and more fragile than bbs. Nowadays it just feels like they’re trying random things just because they can. This thing has 25mm armor around both its turrets and barbettes. Even an Akizuki can knock them out if it focuses on them. Read this text - 100MM guns can knock out this HEAVY CRUISER’S TUREETS WITHOUT IFHE!
I think it would be nice if they had two planes fly out with depth charges, and that would increase the width of the depth charge radius. They also need to probably buff the range of the submarine radar by 1km and increase the length of time for the consumable to 40 or 45 seconds.
I want you to know I complained out loud about subs with you during your video yesterday. I decided to play the game for the first time in a month or so, and was dealt 3 double sub rounds in a row. Back on the shelf the game goes
If that helps you at all, PQ, i could listen to this rant every day and not get bored with it^^ As long as you don't turn into Flamu who whines and complains about every class other than cruisers, go for it. A weekly rant should be permitted
Do not run away from subs if you're solo hunting a sub, he can't shotgun you after the update 1VS1, the torps need to go 3KM to do full dmg, if you go towards it torps fired from 3.5KM away can't even do full dmg because the torps won't have time to travel 3KM before impact, but running away resulting more time for the torps to fully arm, and sub hydro can't track your movement and attack you without seeing you underwater. Subs are strong, but they do need skills to play well now. DDs now kill subs on a 1vs1 with ease
Specially on closer range "no armour"isn't too bad,as you receive a lot of overpens from high caliber AP...like a hot knife through butter. DIDO is a perfect example
Agree about subs and planes. Just had similar experience against subs in the tier 5 Delhi, which feels pretty op at that tier tbf. Still, actually killing a sub was just incredibly difficult, much harder than dealing with other ships which just feels wrong.
WG didn't want the sub survalence to have any type of game impact, so they gave it to ships that wouldn't want to be around caps to use it. But by all means, buff sub maneuverability and torps damage. Fuck wows. Seriously. All WG does is shove their balls in the players faces and tells them that the view is good.
@@ManOfChaiTea Terrified of a 7km sonar when your torpedo range is 10-12km? lmao Go ask DD's how they torp when most of them got less than 10km torps, and they need to deal with 10-12km radars :D
I haven't been playing since the start of this year. First something bad happened that kept me from playing, then I discovered Valheim, I played naval battles for my clan one weekend and got so disgusted with the underwater cancer and the sky cancer, haven't touched it since. Don't miss it, and I used to be so addicted to this game. Fuck WG.
To be fair, Incomparable and Thunderer go through pretty much all cruisers like a hot spoon goes through ice cream. But I agree with all your points. Since I consider this the last line I will grind, I am glad it's a decent one.
The sub changes are literally trash. It's insane. You only hit a sub now if they are distracted. The manoeuvrability was completely unnecessary. And that you can't hydro them in the whole hydro range is moronic to say the least. Why do we also need a whole different thing to spot subs? Why are they nerfing the sub one shot range, and have only a 100m (!!!) range to go to 100% dmg.. WG is smoking crack
Your comments about subs and how they "crap" on the game is spot on. The fastest way to suck the fun out of the game is having to deal with a sub in the game. Subs got a huge buff this time around.
When subs first came out, they used to have to fight each other. It was actually kind of neat to do sub vs sub fight. I don't know why they removed it.
Some of the issue with subs might be sunk-cost fallacy. They are bending over backwards to make subs work when subs just need to be removed. Maybe a sub vs hunter mode instead, where that is the only place subs can be used.
The thing to remember folks is while its fine to say "it beats subs" even if thats true subs compose at most 2 spots on the enemy team. Thats like saying I optimized to kill 17% of possible opponents that might not be in my game or if they are might have spawned on the other side of the map. So your time in role playing these ships as dedicated sub hunters is minimal and the rest of the boat is whats going to have to carry the gameplay.
Like actively hunting subs isn't too good no matter what you're in. Better to let them come to you or run away from them depending what ship you're in lol
If I had to start this game over after 6 years of playing, I would be a CV main, then a Submarine main. Because the people who play these classes are definitely having a LOT OF FUN!!! at the expense of surface players. It’s just not fair. Shame really.
The armour on Cerberus seems to be almost exactly what you've been asking for cruisers to be armoured like for a while now. It's got a very large very exposed cit for Battleships to eat like candy, and nothing special to make up for that. Adding this edit to note because I misread this as well, the damage ramping on sub torps is from 2.9km to 3km. So the damage pre buff would have been something like 2.989km. Still stupid, I kind of wish the damage ramping was the entire range of the torps, but that was something I misread in the patch notes as well so I figured I would point it out.
@@clmwrx That's the thing though, you can't do one without the other. At least not without making cruisers neigh invulnerable from the front. The Commonwealth Cruisers are likely the closest to what PQ wants without a major armour rework or the removal of over-match as a mechanic.
No, they specifically said it's not a nerf: '' At the same time, we want to maintain the current level of combat effectiveness of submarines in battle, which we plan to achieve through a series of balance changes, as well as updating commander skills, upgrades, and signals. ''
I dunno about that. I see a sub in almost every single match now. Quite often it's two of them. Heck quite a few matches with only one dd per team and two subs. Subs are slowly replacing dds. Altho at the same time there's a lot of matches with 4 dds and 2 subs per side lol
Day 3 in asking PQ to play Spotter Plane Worc in memoriam of Worcester Guy. Worcester is inherently underpowered, with minimal armor and extremely floaty shells. She lacks a superior heal or throttle time, and her detect is far larger than many other light cruisers at her tier. (I still love her)
I think you should do a submarine video to show your rant instead! P.S.: You say multiple times in the video like at 33:52 that Wargaming wanted to nerf submarines, but this isn't the case. In fact, they outright stated ''we want to maintain the current level of combat effectiveness of submarines in battle, which we plan to achieve through a series of balance changes, as well as updating commander skills, upgrades, and signals'' which is why for every interaction they improved (such as showing their direction when they ping), they also give a compensating buff (such as improving the turning circle). P.P.S.: This also means we are going to get a third submarine patch to update the commander skills, it will mostly improve homing torpedo submarines.
I'd say the other metric they use to measure game health is active players. It's a nebulous statistic, since only some of those active players are paying for all the new content, but player count is indicative of where the game is headed.
With the weaknesses that you mention, this looks to be a ship for players with a higher skill level in order to do well. As far as your ¨rant´ on CVs and Subs, I fully agree with you and they are the reason I have almost stopped playing completely. Now I just log in once in a while, get my three coal containers and log off.
blame all the bogan collingwood supporters for overloading the food compartment with footy pies and slabs of VBs on the Ceberus struggling to accelerate.
Your rant was my rant and why I quit the game. I'm glad you're sticking with it because I enjoy the videos and seeing the surface combat aspect of the game. It's a shame that War Gambling pushed subs into the mix and made AA just a fireworks show.
Remember as well, this ship has 25mm turret and barrette armor. If even an Akizuki focuses on this things guns, they WILL get knocked out… That is how fragile this thing is.
It has less DPM than a light cruiser cuz they indirectly discourage you from playing it, by making it useless against surface ships - which are the 95% of enemies you face in this game. I won't be surprised if they also rig matchmaking so you face way less submarines in this ship line - and that way players just don't pick playing it alltogether.
They don't misunderstand what the word nerf means. They just think the playerbase is stupid enough to see a buff get put on subs but will simply eat it up if WG says its a nerf. Arf arf arf, they said the word nerf! WG thinks we think like that.
Took some time off, having a good time. Tier VIII Bronze ranked lets me play a ship like Baltimore again. Without getting massacred again and again in repeated double-uptiered games.
These rants are fine and I understand the frustration but it really isn't confusing why developers do these things, at least, for me. It's just a simple five letter word MONEY. Once you understand that a lot of these developers are at the behest of corporate bodies whos sole purpose is to make money, it becomes less complicated. They couldn't careless about the game or if the players are having fun, their just thinking of the next big cash grab. I honestly don't understand why people find complaining useful anymore, it's clear they will never listen, but I guess it's easier to complain then to organize and do something about it. I would like to suggest maybe going in a different direction on the channel if you want idk, I don't see a reason to play a game that constantly frustrates you but if you can still find some enjoyment from the game then props to you. To touch on what you said at the very end, "That is the way things are these days and there's nothing I can do to change it". Of course, your right, there's nothing *YOU* can do to change it but, *WE* together can. 🌹
The original HMAS Cerberus was a monitor station in Melbourne and was decommissioned in the early 1900s. Thankfully this ship wasn't modelled on the original.
@@billhanna2148 it actually had quite an interesting life and is still visible today. Built in the UK and sailed out to Australia. That in itself would be a journey to remember. Thank you the comment
Talk about nerfs, there are a lot of nerfs that could be dished out if WOW cared about its player base. What skill is involved in sitting back in smoke or behind a mountain spamming a battle wagon with HE? What skill is involved in a DD with 6 klick or less detection, driving up to within 7 or 8 clicks of a battleship or cruiser and launching a swarm of torps? What's right about cruisers and DD's that can shoot further than most tech tree battleships? Nothing, and they all need nerfed.
I really don't like the design of this ship. Smoke + HE spam has always been frustrating to fight against, but at least those ships had low caliber, penetration and range. Now Cerberus gets 32mm pen and 18km range. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's overpowered. Just very frustrating to fight, yet another reason to stay passive.
Leave it to WG to give sub counter measures to a glacier that can basically only play well via staying alive long enough to spam HE from long range where playing close enough to the enemy to detect subs would be the dumbest way you could possibly play it. Never stop trashing WG for being so shit at their job.
The problem is pretty simple to me : Click on your sub, on your CV and just destroy the entire team. That's it. CVs are SUBs are decent, yeah okay why not, but we need something to compensate ! We need a tool to fight against them. Or else, the players will slowly quit the game, because it's just not fun anymore. You have a class that can't be spotted, that has a better torpedo DPM that i have with my secondary on the Flandre and that can smash in peaces what is suppose to counter it ! What are we suppose to do ? Wargaming need to open their eyes, everytime it's the same debat, why aren't they changing something ? I hate to say that, but I think it's besause they are making money. New players are coming, discover SUBs are cheated and spend money on them (same for CV) because they want to win. What it is for else than money ? We have less and less content in the battle pass, more and more pay to win event with this lootbox system which is horrible (300$ for the Rhode Island eh ?), nerf of super containers... As mainly a BB and DD player, with my Kléber, i'm afraid of SUBs, really, I run when i see one, because those things are stronger than a Satsuma using his funny button on my broadside. All the decisions they are taking those past years was pointless, at least to me. But, I really hope that it will change, that once again i'm gonna have fun brawling with my full secondary Flandre and its insane DPM. That, i'm gonna enjoy rushing on caps with my Marceau and not get slap 'cause of CV with indestructible planes. and insane damage... I hope...
Honestly if this thing had normal smokes instead of crawling ones, hell even shorter Daring-ish ones, I would try to get her. But I hate the crawling smoke in this game. Light armor is I'm used to but light armor AND the sluggish movement is also a turn-off for me. Sadge that Commonwealth cruisers are actually wasted on this gameplay style.
its sad to hear this cause i was so excited for this line, to finally have the commonwealth tech tree ships that i have wanted to grind in order to get the australian ships, but now after watching they sound so incredibly trash that it doesnt even seem worth grinding, thanks for your honesty PQ, saving me from wasting credits on a crappy line.
Thank you for speaking plainly. WoWs is a great game that is hobbled by a deceitful business plan. "Free game is goot. You give feed back. We spread sheets. Game ever better. You buy now."
I think once folks are aware of these ships they will focus them as soon as spotted before they can smoke or want to smoke up and really wreck them. The are so soft. As you demonstrated, if they let you smoke up its painful.
Played over a dozen games last night, All were crap games with subs, The one match without any subs had players on both sides commenting about how good the match was and it went down to the last few players, No wipes.
I dont think they are ever going to actually balance subs properly given that they underperform extremely hard as the vast majority of people playing them are either bad at/ or new to the game. They are by far the easiest class to play and yet those that do play them barely even know base mechanics of the game, which is the only thing preventing submarines from making wows unplayable.. Imagine if submarine players knew what they were doing; you can literally just go to port, you are not going to win a fight against a competent sub. No matter what ship you use.. Its really sad and just makes the game worse, like e.g. I love playing salem and I still do but having subs capable of making certain positions that are required to be useful unplayable just drives me away from playing it. Like what are you supposed to do at this point? Go permakite to spawn? Guess ima spam another 300 conde games then, that thing doesnt get griefed by subs as much as other ships do.. Is that fun? No. But its atleast better than getting griefed by a class that you won't be able to do anything against unless the person playing them is bad..
i just used to finish my hard long day at work to run to home ..stetting with family then playing 3 or more hours wows ..it was fun and interesting..surface ships fighting .like fist to fist ..losing or winning was fun ..then subs comes combined with the cv's ..then the chaos & frustration starts ..my game hours become less and less ..right now i did not play for 1 week and care less about wows and every time i think to play ..it comes to mind that i will meet this two op classes which has no relationship to surface ships ..cv's who send planes with no end and .he just park there doing nothing then sending planes over and over and the subs who hide under water out spot any dd and out speed any dd .just ping and spot every one for his team ...it not fun ..sad to see WG killing this game like they did to world of war planes ..it become abended game full with bots with few ppl who love to kill bots ..this game become world of subs and cv
I find the idea of “fun to play against” kinda weird here. There’s a good chance this ship firing HE in smoke and cooking BB’s probably tortured the other ships more than the sub. Maybe this is just because I’m kinda tired of the HE spam in this game, but this ship line also seems pretty unfun to play against.
With this kind of bad survivability they should have given this ship a superheal instead. It eats damage like nothing else. Is clumsy... Superheal is needed.
![เขามัทรี - เอ็กซ์ ศุภกฤต - จอนนี่มิวสิค [ Official MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AS9ufKuQIVs/mqdefault.jpg)
Love the flagging of the video: "the rant begins" ... and the "the rant continues" ... 🙂
I feel your pain!
We ALL do (except the sub- and CV-main griefers).
Day 3 of pouring out my lunchtime coffee in remberance of Worchester guy
Day 1 of supporting Worcester remembrance guy
Love it 😂
I restarted it lol
Did Worchester guy pass away ? 😂😂😂
I just gave up as everyone told me to stop and PQ would probably never respond. @MrSniperdude01
Hey man, thanks for continuing to play this game so I can experience the game without actually experiencing the game. Hope it gets better.
I love when you rant because it gives me the reality check: It's not me, it objectively SUCKS dealing with cvs and subs. Also if they advertise this line as good with dealing with subs and it actually sucks it needs to be said, its only fair. You just say what needs to be said. The dockyard being a second battle pass enlighten me, how I didn't think about it. Good vid.
Man. After seeing your gameplays, i sure as hell will focus on these ships if i am on my vermont
Dude. It's a cruiser. WG literally makes them overmatch food for BBs
You can focus mostly any cruiser in this game with Vermont and make their life miserable
I love Vermonts in my Cerberus!
In your comparisson at 28:03 you forgot the part were us DDs would also simply not have to be in a smoke to not get spotted by radar at all.
really? do you play this game at all?
If you asked Wargaming to build a better mousetrap, they would nerf cats and make mice 30% larger, 25% more agile, and venomous. They would then point to the higher percentage of mice dying to traps versus cats and claim that mousetraps are greatly improved. Within a year there'd be 600 different colors of WG mousetrap, they'd be 80$ each, and birds would get a stealth buff.
I can feel your frustration PQ. I use to play this game all the time before the CV change. Was so much fun. Even spent couple hundred dollars on crates, BUT I cannot just find myself to play it anymore. I loaded game up last year to try it out again, and got shotgunned by a sub in my WV. I was like NOPE. Uninstalled again. I know you vested in it and want to stay. I just have no hope for WG
I'd say that's a shocker, but the slowest battleship in the game tends to eat torpedoes quite often lol
I used to play this game a lot before the CV changes. It was annoying, but not unbearable, so I played less but still played. But the submarines ruined it for me. It is so frustrating to get nuked by something you either didn’t know was there, or couldn’t do anything about.
Now I pretty much only come back for things like Asymmetric Battles, because it lets me avoid that stuff. I want them to follow the Russian server and add tier 9-11 to operations and I’ll play those more. Yes I’m gonna grind Wisconsin because of how dirt cheap it is in comparison to all the $100+ “early access” events and loot boxes and other bullshit.
This game used to respect its players. Wish it would again.
Subs are easy kills, we get it you dont want them in game but, they are not bad and with the new nerfs, they are pretty much unplayable, which is what the anti sub community wanted. It was never about balance. Sub damage has never broken any damage records.
@@ManOfChaiTea it's not about damage but balancing
@@ManOfChaiTea
A well played sub is no easy kill, and there is no defense against them when you can't spot them.
@@ManOfChaiTeaImagine playing a pure griefer class like submarines, then play the victim when you suddenly have to put some basic level thought into positional play. Sub damage never broke records because a large portion of the sub players are terrible and kill themselves in 5 minutes. The issue is when a semi- competent player is commandeering a sub, even literal KOTS winners are getting bullied without any meaningful counterplay. They are just a terrible design. CV rework all over again.
@@HerrSchockkeep asking for nerfs lmao 🤣
This reminds me of my experience with the UK heavy cruisers; way squishier than I'd expect heavy cruisers to be, are slow and sluggish and guns that seem to do very little damage, especially Albemarle and Drake (I know Drake is 234mm). The T8 Commonwealth seems to be a direct copy/paste of Albemarle. The smoke does make me a little hopefully it'll be a less awful experience than the UK CA's but I expect these to be fairly mediocre.
I liked Drake. Albemarle is awful though. The only success I found with Albemarle was ambushing BBs, since it has excellent torp angles.
I grinded Drake in T9 ranked and found it to be awesome in those situations. Though Goliath is by far king of the line.
I quite enjoy Cheshire too, since the guns actually feel nice.
the subs are soo fast under water. its crazy they can catch up to battleships underwater.
they outran most dd under water which is soo stupid
Don't know what subs your referring to but a real loom would show 99% of subs fully submerged travel 25knotts or lower whilst 99% of BBs on surface travel 30knots or higher. Subs on surface depending on tier go around 25 to 28knots whilst BBs depending on tier go 22 to 35knots. Tier for tier, BBs are always faster than subs surfaced or suvmerged in almost all cases. Bar 1 sub, U4501, it has 12 or 14 thousand hp, I don't care about saturation BS it doesn't really count or make real different unless it's splash damage. 3 well placed, 2 depth charge per plane ASWs ends the sub. All subs underwater are about as movable as BBs relative to thier size, they slow as much if not more in turning, making it near impossible to evade good placed depth charges. Unlike BBs and other ships, subs receive damage from splash damage from shells and asw and depth charges. Ships don't suffer from splash damage at all. In a real sense, torps are a subs only offence and defence, homing torps are 1/2 the damage and dumbfired a d are now detected earlier, easier to evade and require a sub se d those torps at a range beyond 5 to 6km away because the ping surface indicator now includes direction of travel and stays on surface 2x as long. Asw planes attack 2x faster dealing almost 2x the damage be it splash or on the head damage. Dumbfired are slower but can't track, shorter range, usually well within detection range and can't be fired whilst underwater. So in short, there is a reason why current WG stats show a decrease across the board when it comes to subs and the damage previously caused vs the current damage of around 10%. That was after the first sub nerfs, after the second one they are still tabulating data but it's expected to equal to or even more reduction. The previous stats prior to 1st.nerfs included all those apparant OP subs that used shotgunning and scored highest rank in multiple game that you all cried about, but 10% wouldn't make the sub op given the actual damage output, the vulnerable nature of subs against any munitio n the reliance on oxygen rate to stay below surface , the 6 to 8km spotting radius. Now sub servalance upto 12km although most homing torps are 10km.
until 2.9km, it is 10% shotgun dmg but full dmg at 3km. the insane buff is -15% incoming dmg from asw as module
I would argue that module is more effective against the destroyers because they're the only ones that tend to deal full damage through the actual ASW splash, whereas most of the battleships and cruisers tend to do it with flooding as the main damage point
@@stork6855 you have not yet done any direct hit to sub in your bb or cruiser? like 3600, 4800 damage straight by 1 direct hit?
@@smolnoodle for me i find that vs good subs i get way more damage out of perma fire/flood from a good 2nd drop than needing from direct alpha damage
sure i do get quite a bit from the first hit but for me thats often not what does the sub in. most of my kills against subs (not the braindead ones) is from exhausting their dcp and using the oil slicks for perma flood/fire kills where a direct hit is less common as they tend to hide harder after the first big slap
the new cruiser is quite good for the perma flood strategy against subs as the extra drops allow you to just overload their dcp like the old British battleships before the nerf
I don't know why but she kinda reminds me of Exeter. Has solid guns, plenty of tools to do the job but is overall a glass cannon
the hull is very similar to mid tier British CAs, so it makes sense.
So what is the diff between playing this and playing the Goliath or Zao? Not much from what I see, other than smoke and an underwater radar. I got a feeling that a Goliath or Zao would be a much better experience
And no, it's not a rant. It's nice to know that my views on subs & CVs are being represented by a respectable CC
Goliath guns hit a whole lot harder, and is a whole lot harder to kill
Goliath is great ship, Zao is just poor trash.
Goliath has better HE, better AP, better armor, and a super heal. Zao has better armor, better concealment, better torps, better HE, better AP, way better accuracy, it also has sub surveillance, has much better maneuverability, and it's faster. So just play Zao
The Venezia is really the only cruiser that actually does well against subs due to the smoke which lets you run away better.
You know, something I've been feeling about cruiser AP, since the Dutch line (starting at Haarlem) I've been finding newer cruiser AP really lackluster, granted I'm likely spoiled because of US Super Heavy AP, but even the 283s on the Golden Lion AP wise feel, underwhelming. So, I'm not surprised these new Commonwealth cruisers are punching below their weight, it really drives home my feeling that WeeGee doesn't paly their own game, or if they do, they play a different version from the rest of us.
They don't want cruisers to be capable of dealing meaningful damage to BBs, because BB players are their bread and butter
It’s not just the AP that feels different from old ships. I’ve been playing older heavy and large cruisers lately, and I have to say that WG just doesn’t want to make heavy cruisers feel like heavy cruisers anymore. How heavy cruisers used to be - more accurate, more maneuverable, and faster firing but are less damaging and more fragile than bbs. Nowadays it just feels like they’re trying random things just because they can. This thing has 25mm armor around both its turrets and barbettes. Even an Akizuki can knock them out if it focuses on them. Read this text - 100MM guns can knock out this HEAVY CRUISER’S TUREETS WITHOUT IFHE!
I think it would be nice if they had two planes fly out with depth charges, and that would increase the width of the depth charge radius. They also need to probably buff the range of the submarine radar by 1km and increase the length of time for the consumable to 40 or 45 seconds.
I always enjoy your evaluations of ship, your trying different commander builds and your presentation. Keep it up PQ
I want you to know I complained out loud about subs with you during your video yesterday. I decided to play the game for the first time in a month or so, and was dealt 3 double sub rounds in a row. Back on the shelf the game goes
WG are such idiots. Protecting the subs while all the surface-ship players quit.
I rate your rant an 8 out of ten.
(Good review as always)
Don't worry PQ, rant or not we'll still be here watching.
NEVER apologize when you trash the truth about WG. NEVER apologize.
If that helps you at all, PQ, i could listen to this rant every day and not get bored with it^^ As long as you don't turn into Flamu who whines and complains about every class other than cruisers, go for it. A weekly rant should be permitted
The players who complain the loudest about this game are those who love the game the most. Interesting paradox.
Do not run away from subs if you're solo hunting a sub, he can't shotgun you after the update 1VS1, the torps need to go 3KM to do full dmg, if you go towards it torps fired from 3.5KM away can't even do full dmg because the torps won't have time to travel 3KM before impact, but running away resulting more time for the torps to fully arm, and sub hydro can't track your movement and attack you without seeing you underwater. Subs are strong, but they do need skills to play well now. DDs now kill subs on a 1vs1 with ease
Specially on closer range "no armour"isn't too bad,as you receive a lot of overpens from high caliber AP...like a hot knife through butter.
DIDO is a perfect example
Completely agree with your rant.
Totally agree that WoW is a very cynical, ruthless, for max profit enterprise so it will "spin" buffs and nerfs to suite its manipulative process.
Yes. As a dd player, 8km 20 second radar only would be crazy good for me lol
Agree about subs and planes. Just had similar experience against subs in the tier 5 Delhi, which feels pretty op at that tier tbf. Still, actually killing a sub was just incredibly difficult, much harder than dealing with other ships which just feels wrong.
WG didn't want the sub survalence to have any type of game impact, so they gave it to ships that wouldn't want to be around caps to use it. But by all means, buff sub maneuverability and torps damage. Fuck wows. Seriously. All WG does is shove their balls in the players faces and tells them that the view is good.
Subs are almost not able to get in range for torps now.
@@ManOfChaiTea lol. Sub main and apologist spotted.
@@ManOfChaiTea Terrified of a 7km sonar when your torpedo range is 10-12km? lmao Go ask DD's how they torp when most of them got less than 10km torps, and they need to deal with 10-12km radars :D
@@meganoobbg3387let me know when radar reload in 30s
I haven't been playing since the start of this year. First something bad happened that kept me from playing, then I discovered Valheim, I played naval battles for my clan one weekend and got so disgusted with the underwater cancer and the sky cancer, haven't touched it since. Don't miss it, and I used to be so addicted to this game. Fuck WG.
Valheim is great!
Congrats on finding a different game to enjoy. I wish you the strength to let go of this one.
WG is a fcking joke. They keep buffing those subs and don't expect that the playerbase is gonna stop playing their game?
To be fair, Incomparable and Thunderer go through pretty much all cruisers like a hot spoon goes through ice cream. But I agree with all your points.
Since I consider this the last line I will grind, I am glad it's a decent one.
The sub changes are literally trash. It's insane. You only hit a sub now if they are distracted. The manoeuvrability was completely unnecessary. And that you can't hydro them in the whole hydro range is moronic to say the least. Why do we also need a whole different thing to spot subs?
Why are they nerfing the sub one shot range, and have only a 100m (!!!) range to go to 100% dmg.. WG is smoking crack
I actually like when you shit on the game, more fun than just seeing disappointing new ships be disappointing
Your comments about subs and how they "crap" on the game is spot on. The fastest way to suck the fun out of the game is having to deal with a sub in the game. Subs got a huge buff this time around.
So it's a Goliath with smoke instead of a superheal?
No. Goliath has decent armor.
And better torpedo performance and better anti-submarine performance.
Goliath got decent armor, this thing is just sad
When subs first came out, they used to have to fight each other. It was actually kind of neat to do sub vs sub fight. I don't know why they removed it.
Some of the issue with subs might be sunk-cost fallacy. They are bending over backwards to make subs work when subs just need to be removed.
Maybe a sub vs hunter mode instead, where that is the only place subs can be used.
I just wish they'd keep them out of ranked. Same for cvs.
The thing to remember folks is while its fine to say "it beats subs" even if thats true subs compose at most 2 spots on the enemy team.
Thats like saying I optimized to kill 17% of possible opponents that might not be in my game or if they are might have spawned on the other side of the map. So your time in role playing these ships as dedicated sub hunters is minimal and the rest of the boat is whats going to have to carry the gameplay.
But if the sub is hunting you or your nearby friendlies then woot. Plus there is subs in almost every match these days. Quite often it is two of them
Like actively hunting subs isn't too good no matter what you're in. Better to let them come to you or run away from them depending what ship you're in lol
Maybe just set the arming distance for sub torps to 3 km.
If I had to start this game over after 6 years of playing, I would be a CV main, then a Submarine main. Because the people who play these classes are definitely having a LOT OF FUN!!! at the expense of surface players. It’s just not fair. Shame really.
The armour on Cerberus seems to be almost exactly what you've been asking for cruisers to be armoured like for a while now. It's got a very large very exposed cit for Battleships to eat like candy, and nothing special to make up for that.
Adding this edit to note because I misread this as well, the damage ramping on sub torps is from 2.9km to 3km. So the damage pre buff would have been something like 2.989km. Still stupid, I kind of wish the damage ramping was the entire range of the torps, but that was something I misread in the patch notes as well so I figured I would point it out.
I thought the main thing he wanted was ships to be punished when broadside and not punished when angled. No matter if cruiser or bb
@@clmwrx That's the thing though, you can't do one without the other. At least not without making cruisers neigh invulnerable from the front. The Commonwealth Cruisers are likely the closest to what PQ wants without a major armour rework or the removal of over-match as a mechanic.
@PotatoQuality Hope you have / had a great ski trip, would love to hear about it! Where did you go? IMO rant, especially on subs, is warranted.
Came for the review, stayed for the rant :D
I feel like they call it a nerf just to hide the straight up buff. i think the sub player numbers arent great so they make them even stronger.
No, they specifically said it's not a nerf:
'' At the same time, we want to maintain the current level of combat effectiveness of submarines in battle, which we plan to achieve through a series of balance changes, as well as updating commander skills, upgrades, and signals. ''
I dunno about that. I see a sub in almost every single match now. Quite often it's two of them. Heck quite a few matches with only one dd per team and two subs. Subs are slowly replacing dds. Altho at the same time there's a lot of matches with 4 dds and 2 subs per side lol
An equivalent exchange, keep on asking for nerfs
Day 3 in asking PQ to play Spotter Plane Worc in memoriam of Worcester Guy. Worcester is inherently underpowered, with minimal armor and extremely floaty shells. She lacks a superior heal or throttle time, and her detect is far larger than many other light cruisers at her tier. (I still love her)
Yeah, Day nth of requesting woostah
I think you should do a submarine video to show your rant instead!
P.S.: You say multiple times in the video like at 33:52 that Wargaming wanted to nerf submarines, but this isn't the case. In fact, they outright stated ''we want to maintain the current level of combat effectiveness of submarines in battle, which we plan to achieve through a series of balance changes, as well as updating commander skills, upgrades, and signals'' which is why for every interaction they improved (such as showing their direction when they ping), they also give a compensating buff (such as improving the turning circle).
P.P.S.: This also means we are going to get a third submarine patch to update the commander skills, it will mostly improve homing torpedo submarines.
I'd say the other metric they use to measure game health is active players. It's a nebulous statistic, since only some of those active players are paying for all the new content, but player count is indicative of where the game is headed.
I'd say total number of Randoms played is the metric. If someone plays one Random, WG say they're "active". Whereas they used to play dozens......
Just use steam charts, a lot of people's delusion that this game is dying gets shattered
With the weaknesses that you mention, this looks to be a ship for players with a higher skill level in order to do well. As far as your ¨rant´ on CVs and Subs, I fully agree with you and they are the reason I have almost stopped playing completely. Now I just log in once in a while, get my three coal containers and log off.
So wait, does the alternative torpedo damage buff mean Gato's non homing torps are gonna damage even more??
Appreciate your honest thoughts, rants are the best part! Thank you.
blame all the bogan collingwood supporters for overloading the food compartment with footy pies and slabs of VBs on the Ceberus struggling to accelerate.
Your rant was my rant and why I quit the game. I'm glad you're sticking with it because I enjoy the videos and seeing the surface combat aspect of the game. It's a shame that War Gambling pushed subs into the mix and made AA just a fireworks show.
This ship gonna be nerfed very quickly
I 100% agree on your rant about subs, it is killing this game that used to be so fun
Remember as well, this ship has 25mm turret and barrette armor. If even an Akizuki focuses on this things guns, they WILL get knocked out… That is how fragile this thing is.
It has less DPM than a light cruiser cuz they indirectly discourage you from playing it, by making it useless against surface ships - which are the 95% of enemies you face in this game. I won't be surprised if they also rig matchmaking so you face way less submarines in this ship line - and that way players just don't pick playing it alltogether.
They don't misunderstand what the word nerf means. They just think the playerbase is stupid enough to see a buff get put on subs but will simply eat it up if WG says its a nerf.
Arf arf arf, they said the word nerf!
WG thinks we think like that.
Took some time off, having a good time. Tier VIII Bronze ranked lets me play a ship like Baltimore again. Without getting massacred again and again in repeated double-uptiered games.
If I had a nickel for every time I was in a PQ video I’d have two nickels, which isn’t a lot but it’s weird that it happened twice
I'm still waiting to see him in game. Hopefully on my team lol
These rants are fine and I understand the frustration but it really isn't confusing why developers do these things, at least, for me. It's just a simple five letter word MONEY. Once you understand that a lot of these developers are at the behest of corporate bodies whos sole purpose is to make money, it becomes less complicated. They couldn't careless about the game or if the players are having fun, their just thinking of the next big cash grab. I honestly don't understand why people find complaining useful anymore, it's clear they will never listen, but I guess it's easier to complain then to organize and do something about it. I would like to suggest maybe going in a different direction on the channel if you want idk, I don't see a reason to play a game that constantly frustrates you but if you can still find some enjoyment from the game then props to you. To touch on what you said at the very end, "That is the way things are these days and there's nothing I can do to change it". Of course, your right, there's nothing *YOU* can do to change it but, *WE* together can. 🌹
Is there a rule that tells him to block names of the players he killed (post-battle) or is it a mod?
Might be personal choice. I block names of players I killed when I post screenshots to my clan. I don't need to dump on other people.
The original HMAS Cerberus was a monitor station in Melbourne and was decommissioned in the early 1900s. Thankfully this ship wasn't modelled on the original.
well you wouldn't be able to sink it ...which is an improvement and would break the hearts of all those sub players.
@@billhanna2148 it actually had quite an interesting life and is still visible today. Built in the UK and sailed out to Australia. That in itself would be a journey to remember.
Thank you the comment
Talk about nerfs, there are a lot of nerfs that could be dished out if WOW cared about its player base. What skill is involved in sitting back in smoke or behind a mountain spamming a battle wagon with HE? What skill is involved in a DD with 6 klick or less detection, driving up to within 7 or 8 clicks of a battleship or cruiser and launching a swarm of torps? What's right about cruisers and DD's that can shoot further than most tech tree battleships? Nothing, and they all need nerfed.
Just the pure fact that subs have counterplay against the counterplay, but dd´s don´t
subs have been made useless, they werent hard to deal with before.
I really don't like the design of this ship. Smoke + HE spam has always been frustrating to fight against, but at least those ships had low caliber, penetration and range. Now Cerberus gets 32mm pen and 18km range. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's overpowered. Just very frustrating to fight, yet another reason to stay passive.
Jinan much more flexible.
Leave it to WG to give sub counter measures to a glacier that can basically only play well via staying alive long enough to spam HE from long range where playing close enough to the enemy to detect subs would be the dumbest way you could possibly play it.
Never stop trashing WG for being so shit at their job.
The problem is pretty simple to me : Click on your sub, on your CV and just destroy the entire team. That's it. CVs are SUBs are decent, yeah okay why not, but we need something to compensate ! We need a tool to fight against them. Or else, the players will slowly quit the game, because it's just not fun anymore. You have a class that can't be spotted, that has a better torpedo DPM that i have with my secondary on the Flandre and that can smash in peaces what is suppose to counter it ! What are we suppose to do ?
Wargaming need to open their eyes, everytime it's the same debat, why aren't they changing something ? I hate to say that, but I think it's besause they are making money. New players are coming, discover SUBs are cheated and spend money on them (same for CV) because they want to win. What it is for else than money ? We have less and less content in the battle pass, more and more pay to win event with this lootbox system which is horrible (300$ for the Rhode Island eh ?), nerf of super containers...
As mainly a BB and DD player, with my Kléber, i'm afraid of SUBs, really, I run when i see one, because those things are stronger than a Satsuma using his funny button on my broadside. All the decisions they are taking those past years was pointless, at least to me. But, I really hope that it will change, that once again i'm gonna have fun brawling with my full secondary Flandre and its insane DPM. That, i'm gonna enjoy rushing on caps with my Marceau and not get slap 'cause of CV with indestructible planes. and insane damage... I hope...
I don’t think WG knows the difference between ‘Buffs’ and ‘Nerfs’
Honestly if this thing had normal smokes instead of crawling ones, hell even shorter Daring-ish ones, I would try to get her. But I hate the crawling smoke in this game. Light armor is I'm used to but light armor AND the sluggish movement is also a turn-off for me. Sadge that Commonwealth cruisers are actually wasted on this gameplay style.
its sad to hear this cause i was so excited for this line, to finally have the commonwealth tech tree ships that i have wanted to grind in order to get the australian ships, but now after watching they sound so incredibly trash that it doesnt even seem worth grinding, thanks for your honesty PQ, saving me from wasting credits on a crappy line.
Thank you for speaking plainly. WoWs is a great game that is hobbled by a deceitful business plan. "Free game is goot. You give feed back. We spread sheets. Game ever better. You buy now."
I think once folks are aware of these ships they will focus them as soon as spotted before they can smoke or want to smoke up and really wreck them. The are so soft. As you demonstrated, if they let you smoke up its painful.
Smoke Cerberus vs Radar Brisbane, that's the question.
I watched the full video. and man.... poor pq
"Yorktown literally does not have a citadel."
*proceeds to explain that the Yorktown citadel is deep underwater but it does exist*
PQ plz
ok this is a joke, but PQ is slowly becoming like flamu and jingles, but i do understand his frustration. lol
Played over a dozen games last night, All were crap games with subs, The one match without any subs had players on both sides commenting about how good the match was and it went down to the last few players, No wipes.
Thursday night: 9pm Eastern time. 9k players on NA.... this didn't age well. Summer time maybe? The games as popular as ever.
Seems like another ship that is great if you're Super Unicum, but just gets wrecked when played by average captains.
It really is such a shame what this game has become over the years. I feel your pain.
Just what we need another HE SPAM SMOKE SHIP
Does anyone think we'll finally get some special commanders for the Commonwealth?
Considering how these ships are "Made" to hunt submarines. It makes too much sense that it's bad at dealing with everything else in the game.
Hey PQ, Ive had a question I’ve been sitting on for a while. Whats up with the ship symbols in the bottom left and how can i get it?
I dont think they are ever going to actually balance subs properly given that they underperform extremely hard as the vast majority of people playing them are either bad at/ or new to the game. They are by far the easiest class to play and yet those that do play them barely even know base mechanics of the game, which is the only thing preventing submarines from making wows unplayable..
Imagine if submarine players knew what they were doing; you can literally just go to port, you are not going to win a fight against a competent sub. No matter what ship you use..
Its really sad and just makes the game worse,
like e.g. I love playing salem and I still do but having subs capable of making certain positions that are required to be useful unplayable just drives me away from playing it.
Like what are you supposed to do at this point?
Go permakite to spawn?
Guess ima spam another 300 conde games then, that thing doesnt get griefed by subs as much as other ships do..
Is that fun? No. But its atleast better than getting griefed by a class that you won't be able to do anything against unless the person playing them is bad..
A new ship always plays good, with good damage for the first week or two... then it's just another average ship in the carousel.
i just used to finish my hard long day at work to run to home ..stetting with family then playing 3 or more hours wows ..it was fun and interesting..surface ships fighting .like fist to fist ..losing or winning was fun ..then subs comes combined with the cv's ..then the chaos & frustration starts ..my game hours become less and less ..right now i did not play for 1 week and care less about wows and every time i think to play ..it comes to mind that i will meet this two op classes which has no relationship to surface ships ..cv's who send planes with no end and .he just park there doing nothing then sending planes over and over and the subs who hide under water out spot any dd and out speed any dd .just ping and spot every one for his team ...it not fun ..sad to see WG killing this game like they did to world of war planes ..it become abended game full with bots with few ppl who love to kill bots ..this game become world of subs and cv
You may be surprised, I came for the rants and rambles 😅😅
Only paid ships will be above mediocre from now and on...
I find the idea of “fun to play against” kinda weird here. There’s a good chance this ship firing HE in smoke and cooking BB’s probably tortured the other ships more than the sub. Maybe this is just because I’m kinda tired of the HE spam in this game, but this ship line also seems pretty unfun to play against.
Every game without a CV and sub is a joy.
My Radar can't detect Subs on the aurface any more
It wouldn’t be as bad if they just gave us one game move without subs or cvs. That used to be ranked but now they went and ruined that too.
It seems to me that this ship is a high tier Huang He. I really like the playstyle of that ship.
Go ahead and rant. You are right. The hard counter is run away. (Some of them are slower than you are. Underwater.)
With this kind of bad survivability they should have given this ship a superheal instead. It eats damage like nothing else. Is clumsy... Superheal is needed.
not only can they just press D once to dodge all attacks without caring, they get a module that reduces their incoming dmg by 15%.... WHAT
Give the people what they want! Worcester with an aa build!