I had little interest in spirit island because of the weight, but I finally tried it with my cousin in the summer and I was blown away. The growth of your own spirit and getting new powers feels like a totally unique game in itself and nothing like any other coop I’ve played. Amazing game!
Mike's never won Ghost Stories?! I think he should do a Ghost Stories marathon where hes not allowed to stop playing until he finally wins. The other cast members would rotate in and out.
The reason why some (including me) prefer Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective is because it is simply written so much better. Chronicles of Crime plays so that you click buttons and everybody looks at the screen. Consulting Detective works so that one of the players - in turn - reads the mini-chapters to other players. It feels more personal having the newspaper and the map and the book of addresses. While it is true that Chronicles of Crime has "more stuff", as you can ask about all the clues and get clue specific answers, what makes Consulting Detective a better detective game is because the quality of writing and the amount of clues that can be caught between the lines. Mind you, my group has played "all of them", all Chronicles of Crimes, all Detectives, all Consulting Detectives and City of Angels. And we much prever City of Angels and Consulting Detective games because they feel more sandbox and they feel more personal - playing with your friends rather than doing a pretty much choose your adventure with a mystery twist.
Revisiting this video a year later. I love how rewatchable these Top 10 lists actually are from year to year. And I love these dudes! I hope to make to a convention or retreat some day soon.
The Sub Terra tiles have black light reactive printing on them. We bought 2 small standing black lights, close all the lights and play Sub Terra. So much more thematic - especially that the black lights only illuminate about 1 foot diameter at a time.
Great insight into how fantastic a game Arkham Horror LCG is: Tom says "you died" meaning lost the game, Zee corrects him - Ashcan Pete was drifting endlessly lost through time and space with his loyal doggo. That game captures the mood. The long term characters really works great with Cthulu, because you see them go mad, see them keep trying to stay ahead of their past, feel the pain when a character that's spent months investigating a mystery gets ate by a weird thing from the sewers with many tentacles.
I'm surprised Eldritch Horror has fallen off so much with these guys. It's a very different game to Arkham. I think it still holds up very well (one of my all-time favs).
One game I find often not brought up but has been a favourite cooperative for me is Mechs vs Minions. Such a unique experience and so fun stomping on hordes of minions.
Could you please do a list of games to play with parents? Or how about a list of top ten games to play with those who are easily overwhelmed and intimidated by anything beyond regular dice or cards?
Only played Spirit Island once but really liked it. You guys just got my number one co-op in recently, but Keep the Heroes Out is so much fun, and been teaching it when I can. Got a 4 player and 2 player games in today!
Zee Garcia! Finally I could get my hands on Sub Terra over here in Norway. You have triggered my interest for this game for quite some time. I'm looking forward to give it a spin. Keep up the good work!
I grew up with Marvel comics. Now, nothing turns me off more than seeing Marvel in a title. Movie, board game …anything. Same goes with Star Wars. Honestly Disney and over saturation has destroyed so much I used to love. 8(
I actually find I enjoy teaching The Crew perhaps more than any game I've ever taught. Even with a big skill diversity its a challenge in teaching someone the basics of trick taking with the limited communication and watching things click.
That is why I think Planet 9 And Deep Sea are 2 different games. The original is perfect to teach trick taking but Deep Sea is great if you already understand The Crew
How Sleeping gods was not making to any of the lists?! It was one constant title in any awards nomination lists, dice tower included, especially in the coop category. Narrative, mechanics, replayability, graphics and... were great. It is in my top 3 of all games.
Everything Mike said about Marvel United (top3) also applies to The Last Bastion from Antoine Bauza, I'd highly recommend it and I'm shocked to see how ignored it is on every toplist. That game too is a marvel, and I love that you guys included it! I hope the Ghost Stories expansions will eventually find their way to the Last Bastion.
When we first join the boardgame hobby (after getting hooked by Catan) we thought that coop games would be much better as we were getting a bit too competitive with Catan. Turns out that our biggest problem with coop games is that we tend to over plan each heroes action that it no longer feels like we, as players, are playing... We became an hive mind ! We just started Spirit Island and we like it a lot as it is just plain IMPOSSIBLE to plan every actions, unless you wish to discuss each round for hours. It's rather I can deal with these regions, what can you do? Massive darkness is fun at 2 players, but it is SUPER easy. playing at a higher count felt boring as there's just nothing to do after the first 2 players have played. Perhaps we should try to split into 2 groups of 2, but that did not seem appropriate for the scenarios we played. Great 2 player tho.
But but but…AEON’S END!!!! That’s why we needed Chris and Wendy on this video. My votes were: 1 Aeon’s End 2 Bandido 3 Legendary Encounters: Alien 4 So Clover 5 The Crew 6 Just One 7 The Mind 8 Magic Maze 9 Forbidden Desert 10 Micromacro
If you follow the solo rules for Ghost Stories, it’s the easiest way to win (though not really the most fun). It’s possible to use multiple character abilities in one turn using neutral player tokens. Winning on hell difficulty is doable playing solo.
Props to Zee for the Rising 5 recommendation long ago. Many fun hours of family fun with my little kids. Love how my 4 year old and I can both enjoy it.
Tom laughs at people saying there's too much Marvel, but he reacted exactly the same way to zombies back when that was being used as a theme in exactly the same way.
Wow, never beat ghost stories. It is surely a hard game. I remember so well the fist day we played it. The very first edition of the rules was more confusing or at least WE had a lot of confusion between how rounds and turns worked (one player move or once around the table) and we got it wrong 3 times in ways that made the game MUCH harder. On the fourth try (first three were quick defeats) we finally played it right and won. It felt great. It was like that winnie the pooh episode where tigger puts weights in their shoes. Anyway, for a long time it was played a lot at our yearly boardgame friend gathering and we would give the game victory buttons when it would win. It has definitely amassed quite a lot of victories, but I would say we would win about 30 percent of the time.
One co-op I love that I don't seem to see mentioned much anywhere is Dead Men Tell No Tales. Even without the Kraken expansion there's plenty going on, and with the Kraken involved, I think it's just as cinematic as Death May Die, especially when things start exploding.
One of my favorite cooperative games that's not mentioned here is Carnival Zombie which I recall Tom also liked. It's got such a great sense of masses of enemies coming out, you think "how are we going to beat them", and then your characters are so awesome they plow through them with just enough of an edge to make it to the next wave. (Plus it has that goofy sounding but pretty slick in practice gimmick of dropping dead zombie cubes onto a pile and the ones that fall off come back. It's almost like a mini-cooperative Jenga in the game! 😄)
“Juice is worth the squeeze” is from the game brain podcast! They used it first in a riff about heavy board games and if it was worth the effort to play a particular one
Gloomhaven, Death May Die, Massive Darkness, Marvel United, the most expensive Top Ten ever made 😜 Not cash grabs but FOMO nightmares 😅 And to see Spirit beat Gloomhaven in the Peoples Choice.... Oh that makes me so happy. 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
@@michaeldilisio557 I got a bundle of the base game plus spider man and Dr strange for less than 30 on amazon and have no FOMO. But I am not an expansion person anyway. So many great games, just enjoy for what it is and move on.
Spirit Island is $168 for all the gameplay content. Add another $30 if you want the Horizon's spirits. That fits right in with the cost of these other games should you decide to want more content.
I really like co-op games. They're an easy way to introduce people to modern games. Plus, if you have some people that don't like competition or conflict, everyone wins and loses together. My list 1. Harry Potter: Hogwarts Battle 2. The Crew: Mission Deep Sea 3. Pandemic Series 4. Xenoshyft: Onslaught 5. Codenames Duet 6. Marvel Legendary 7. Dead Men Tell No Tales 8. Just One 9. Similo 10. Samurai Spirit
1:18:38 YES! ALL THE YES! ZEE YOU ARE SO RIGHT THIS GAME IS AMAZING!!! Gushing aside I knew this one had to make it because it is a game from fantasy flight that you get the core box, pick what you want, and just go at it. The rules are not too difficult, it sales well for the player amounts, and it is highly customizable both for heroes and villian scenarios. Great pick man.
Regarding Chronicles of Crime, I find the scanning to be fairly tedious. There is something novel and fun about looking through the maps and paperwork in Sherlock that CoC can’t replicate. I also think both games have both good and obtuse cases so that is kind of a wash. CoC is a fine and enjoyable games but Sherlock is better by a hair for me.
Great list! You guys are legends! For me my top ten coops are: 1. Lord of the Rings LCG 2. Star Trek Frontiers 3. X-Men United/Marvel United 4. Marvel Champions 5. Marvel Legendary 6. Aliens Legendary 7. Gloomhaven/JOTL 8. XCOM 9. Imperial Assault 10. Kings of Israel
Following the live chat, several days later, it's tough to discern which are serious comments and which ones are tongue-in-cheek. The Marvel fatigue may affect many fans of the Dice Tower, but these three are still on board with a lot of Marvel's board game presence. Tom, Zee, and Mike certainly don't need me to defend their choices, but I feel compelled to mention that this (and all other) Top 10 lists are THEIR Top 10 lists. All the grumbling (real or fabricated for the lulz) appears to overlook this.
I would pick 1 My Dungeon crawler of choice, the new TMNT City Fall and Change is Constant 2 Flashpoint is always awesome 3 wrath of the lich king pandemic game 4 marvel champions 5 my group loves the ghostbusters blackout game too. Easy to set up fun, thematic and 30 mins
Don't worry Mike, Thunderbirds is well-regarded. For me, it's the best iteration of the Pandemic 'engine', and the need to consider players on following turns makes it more interesting... albeit if players have someone with an alpha gamer attitude, then that would be problematic. My biggest gripe, is the peril of IP based games, as Modiphius lost the licence too quickly (I think it had a single print run at retail), and that means some of the expansions fell into fantasy pricing on the secondary market, and it's a shame that it limited the reach of what I think is a superb game. p.s. for solo I recall them recommending playing 3 handed solo, for the very reasons you suggested pure solo is too difficult.
Spirit Island, Sentinels of the Multiverse, the Crew, Mansions of Madness, XCOM, Horrified, Maximum Apocalypse, Pandemic, Burgle Bros (1, not 2!) and Eldritch Horror for me.
the question about your favored game cant be answered without the circumstances its been played in. i have several favored games and several lists of favored games. all depends on the number of people involved, the mood im in, the time of day/week, the amount of time to play it, the time it needs to be set up, etc... and the number of games i like still grows every day. sometimes i even like a game i normally hate because i play it with a person i like and that person loves the game. i really like to watch you talking about games and sometimes i found new games you talked about and love them too.
Dr. Doom version of pandemic I would buy. Using the fantastic four to stop his robots from spreading would be amazing! I wish the world of warcraft version was better, the designers really did a huge disservice to the final boss in that final fight. Might have to try Iberia. Great lists gentlemen.
yes another fan of Etherfields here, though my favourite co-op (indeed my favourite game) would be an earlier AR game - This War of Mine, and whilst *mechanically* I understand those who call it a solo game, for me the narrative shines brightest (and cuts deepest) when I can share the experience with others.
@@iansutton7416 Funny you like This War of Mine even beter. I have it on my schelf too and was going to play it solo yesterday, but last minute switched to Zombicide Undead or Alive. I’ll be playing This War of Mine next… And I agree on the solo vs multiplayer narrative. I like taking the decisions, but the misery and despair hit harder when shared.
From the intro, I'm imagining Zee playing Betrayal at the House on the Hill, in everyone's face about being the traitor right from the beginning, before anyone finds out who the traitor is!
So I think the reason the "masses" like Spirit Island so much is because of the way it is designed. I played the game once and honestly, not my cup of tea...but I did notice very early that the player escalates faster than the natives. So you start out in a serious pickle. but if you manage to scrape by, you eventually outscale the natives and that is your opportunity to win. In short, it is a game where it feels like you don't have a prayer and then you manage to "scrape together" a victory, which is a very rewarding experience for most people...but since I recognized very early that this was going to be the case, I never actually felt like there was any pressure on, so when we won, it didn't feel like much of a victory so much as an eventuality. To be fair, I was playing with a group of serious gamers and we weren't likely to fall for the traps that would cause us to lose early, which allowed us to easily get to the point where we were overpowered and the game ended almost immediately after that. We could play a harder challenge, but since the challenge is all front-loaded...I'm just not sure what the point would be. I do understand that Mike enjoys the game and I think there is something here in finding just the right balance of difficultly, even if you realize the nature of the game, so I'm not saying Mike falls into the category of players that like the game for the reason stated above...I'm just saying that it makes sense to me that the "masses" would like it for that reason. There are a lot of serious gamers in that group, but there are also a lot of more casual players in that group and a game where they feel like they've been able to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat just seems to be one that would feel like a good play experience to a lot of that level of player. Ultimately, this is not a dis on Spirit Island, which is a fine game by its own right...I might even argue that if this was intentional, then more power to them for pulling that off...creating a game where it constantly feels like you are about to lose, right up until you win. I'm glad so many people enjoy it for that reason...I just had a real hard time getting into it personally.
So loved this list in fact made me go out and late pledge Death May Die, then buy the loop and late pledge Return to Dark tower. Plus I’m on the hunt for Last Bastion and Thunderbirds.
I was rewatching this and wanted to comment on Subterra and Zee's wonder why it isn't that popular (Albeit I know he likely won't see this comment at this point). I personally LOVE Subterra. However, the Kickstarter and the Company really ruined the launch of the game. The Kickstarter was delayed multiple times for about 1.5 to 2 years after the initial fulfillment date. Delays are expected obviously, but this was a bit longer and brought concern. Then with the last delay they told the backers it would be another 3-4 month delay. Two weeks after that update, they were selling retail copies at Essen. The Kickstarter imploded and a lot of people were asking for refunds and some even bought a retail version they got MONTHS before their backer version. It was a real slap in the face. On top of this, the Kickstarter versions were riddled with errors. Tiles were missing, cards were misprinted, some stretch goals weren't included, etc. It was so bad, they sent a "fixer" pack to all backers 3 months later and even issued partial refunds because one of the stretch goals simply didn't work (diorama). It really hurt the game's and company's rep imo. Subterra was the first game I backed All-In and the experience has taught me to never back all-in again or back this company. I didn't even consider Subterra II. I don't know how much this caused Subterra to go unnoticed but I think it was a major factor.
Arkham Horror LCG is still one of my favorite for sure, but it can be a lot, for sure. FFT is definitely the best FF, Tom, I need to try that Adventure Tactics if it some how made you think of FFT :O also, I think my favorite cooperative might be the Pandemic Legacy games. Love em. Not sure though... hard to say. Also love Captain is Dead a lot.
One of the more underappreciated games out at the moment in my book is Thunderstone Quest. It's easily a top 3 game for the GF and I and the flexibility that it can be played vs, co-op, solo ,epic mode plus other variants means it's unlikely to ever leave our collection. There are more involved deck builders out there, but we just find it really fun. I know C:DMD is all the CMON hotness but there's just something about Cthulu as a theme that's so offputting to me. I do love Zombicide Black Plague though. Some day I hope they offered more advanced mechanisms in the Zombicide Universe, like they do for C:DMD.
Dark Tower was not cooperative. It was basically a race game. Gather as many warriors and items as you can, get back to your realm and defeat the tower d
Big Issue we had with Rising 5. Is the app doesn't track well. It messed up early and I realized that my deduction had to be true, but it failed. I looked back at history and saw it was reading the colors incorrectly. Once realized this, we manually enter the colors because their barcode + color scan doesn't work.
I want to hear Tom compare Adventure Tactics with Gloomhaven - what kind of person would you recommend one vs the other? How is the experience similar/different?
Agree completely with Tom about being fine with folks discussing exactly what card they’re going to play in Gloomhaven. The communication rules feel very artificial to me, and I prefer to just talk about what we’re going to play if we want to.
My top ten: 1. Lord of the Rings LCG 2. Marvel Champions (Zee 2) 3. Arkham Horror LCG (Zee 7) 4. Horrified 5. Marvel United (Tom 5, Mike 3, Zee 1) 6. Tome Saga for West Kingdom Trilogy 7. Gloomhaven (Jaws of the Lion) (Tom 3) 8. Legendary 9. Just One 10. Foundations of Rome
Sub Terra is a great game. The sequel is showing up in stores, so hopefully it will reach backers soon. Zee and I agree a lot on games, and I was very excited to get the beautiful Atlantis Rising. However, it really fell flat for me. It was just too long and samey; if it had been 30 minutes shorter it may have stayed in my collection. Just finished sleeving all of my Marvel United last night....
I used to love Horrified, and have it in my top 10. but Marvel United is like Horrified but with 50 to 100 different villains, and with at least 50 to 100 unique heroes. so yeah it is just better in every single aspect. try it.
Defenders of the Realm is so much better than Pandemic. Unfortunately it wasn't produced by a bigger company and has struggled with staying in print. Also out of print is the TMNT game series by IDW Games, which are tons of fun but do have some upkeep and have a competitive option.
![🎤 จับฉลากร้องเพลง x P’ #XXSIVK [EP.1] (2/2) เพื่อนจับได้คำไหน..ต้องร้องคำนั้น เริ่ม! 💓🎶 #MXFRUIT](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1bJvMJXmeS4/mqdefault.jpg)
These three together: greatest of all time.
I thought Sam Healy made a surprise appearance when I saw your comment.
Hope Sam is ok
Unpopular opinion id rather Mike than Sam
@@tah27891 Mike is teriffic. Just hope Sam is okay. His job at Mythic ended and he had some health issues, but he might well be doing great by now:)
Sad and good to hear about Sam.
Would love to see a top 10 list from the DT crew: "Top 10 ways we've changed as gamers"
This is such an awesome idea.
Yes!!!
I had little interest in spirit island because of the weight, but I finally tried it with my cousin in the summer and I was blown away. The growth of your own spirit and getting new powers feels like a totally unique game in itself and nothing like any other coop I’ve played. Amazing game!
I think mechanic wise, my fav 2 player game ever. I like story driven games but often mostly for the story XD
Coops are my favorite, I hope you guys update this list yearly. Always so many good new coops coming out.
Have you guys ever done "Top 10 House Rules"? Like, house rules you have used in certain games that greatly improve them?
Think they did a "top 10 ignored rules" or something like that
Top Ten Games that need one change included some House rules
The could do it again with all the news games out now. Surely there is a new list there.
Hey, I love the House Rules idea!
Great idea!
Mike's never won Ghost Stories?! I think he should do a Ghost Stories marathon where hes not allowed to stop playing until he finally wins. The other cast members would rotate in and out.
Great idea!!!!
Sweet!!! Do it!
I agree with this! Do it Mike!
The reason why some (including me) prefer Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective is because it is simply written so much better. Chronicles of Crime plays so that you click buttons and everybody looks at the screen. Consulting Detective works so that one of the players - in turn - reads the mini-chapters to other players. It feels more personal having the newspaper and the map and the book of addresses. While it is true that Chronicles of Crime has "more stuff", as you can ask about all the clues and get clue specific answers, what makes Consulting Detective a better detective game is because the quality of writing and the amount of clues that can be caught between the lines. Mind you, my group has played "all of them", all Chronicles of Crimes, all Detectives, all Consulting Detectives and City of Angels. And we much prever City of Angels and Consulting Detective games because they feel more sandbox and they feel more personal - playing with your friends rather than doing a pretty much choose your adventure with a mystery twist.
Revisiting this video a year later. I love how rewatchable these Top 10 lists actually are from year to year. And I love these dudes! I hope to make to a convention or retreat some day soon.
Love these top 10s by you three! Can't wait for new ones.
The Sub Terra tiles have black light reactive printing on them. We bought 2 small standing black lights, close all the lights and play Sub Terra. So much more thematic - especially that the black lights only illuminate about 1 foot diameter at a time.
1:30:55 You are literally describing one the main reasons why Spirit Island is so great. Sprits combination + adversary/ scenario = fresh experience.
Great insight into how fantastic a game Arkham Horror LCG is: Tom says "you died" meaning lost the game, Zee corrects him - Ashcan Pete was drifting endlessly lost through time and space with his loyal doggo.
That game captures the mood. The long term characters really works great with Cthulu, because you see them go mad, see them keep trying to stay ahead of their past, feel the pain when a character that's spent months investigating a mystery gets ate by a weird thing from the sewers with many tentacles.
I'm surprised Eldritch Horror has fallen off so much with these guys. It's a very different game to Arkham. I think it still holds up very well (one of my all-time favs).
One game I find often not brought up but has been a favourite cooperative for me is Mechs vs Minions. Such a unique experience and so fun stomping on hordes of minions.
Surprised Sleeping Gods didn't make it anywhere. On my Top 5!
Could you please do a list of games to play with parents? Or how about a list of top ten games to play with those who are easily overwhelmed and intimidated by anything beyond regular dice or cards?
Toss QWIRKLE out there. I've had luck with that when it comes to people you've described.
Yeah, like gateway games.
@@kylereblitz2856 Well, yes, but for this specific group of people.
@@jdkenada I've never played it but thank you for the tip. ☺️
The only one I have that everyone can enjoy is Just One :)
Only played Spirit Island once but really liked it. You guys just got my number one co-op in recently, but Keep the Heroes Out is so much fun, and been teaching it when I can. Got a 4 player and 2 player games in today!
I can't believe I'm saying this. Mike, I like the youthful energy you bring to that table
Knew Aeon's End wasn't going to make their list, but it's high on mine.
Zee Garcia! Finally I could get my hands on Sub Terra over here in Norway. You have triggered my interest for this game for quite some time. I'm looking forward to give it a spin. Keep up the good work!
They're all so witty and have such great chemistry. What an absolute pleasure to watch.
Love Final Fantasy Tactics, and now hearing about Adventure Tactics has me excited.
I grew up with Marvel comics. Now, nothing turns me off more than seeing Marvel in a title. Movie, board game …anything. Same goes with Star Wars. Honestly Disney and over saturation has destroyed so much I used to love. 8(
Disney is one of the shittiest companies to ever have existed
Thanks for this. I always love your top 10 videos like this.
I love Thunderbirds. My wife asked me to add it to our 25x5 for next year when I introduced it to her a few days ago. :)
Thanks guys! Gotta play more of that Spirit Island. Branch and Claws' on the way.
I actually find I enjoy teaching The Crew perhaps more than any game I've ever taught. Even with a big skill diversity its a challenge in teaching someone the basics of trick taking with the limited communication and watching things click.
That is why I think Planet 9 And Deep Sea are 2 different games.
The original is perfect to teach trick taking but Deep Sea is great if you already understand The Crew
How Sleeping gods was not making to any of the lists?! It was one constant title in any awards nomination lists, dice tower included, especially in the coop category. Narrative, mechanics, replayability, graphics and... were great. It is in my top 3 of all games.
My guess is purely because it’s not a game you can play a lot as it takes like a day to play lol.
Everything Mike said about Marvel United (top3) also applies to The Last Bastion from Antoine Bauza, I'd highly recommend it and I'm shocked to see how ignored it is on every toplist. That game too is a marvel, and I love that you guys included it! I hope the Ghost Stories expansions will eventually find their way to the Last Bastion.
When we first join the boardgame hobby (after getting hooked by Catan) we thought that coop games would be much better as we were getting a bit too competitive with Catan. Turns out that our biggest problem with coop games is that we tend to over plan each heroes action that it no longer feels like we, as players, are playing... We became an hive mind ! We just started Spirit Island and we like it a lot as it is just plain IMPOSSIBLE to plan every actions, unless you wish to discuss each round for hours. It's rather I can deal with these regions, what can you do?
Massive darkness is fun at 2 players, but it is SUPER easy. playing at a higher count felt boring as there's just nothing to do after the first 2 players have played. Perhaps we should try to split into 2 groups of 2, but that did not seem appropriate for the scenarios we played. Great 2 player tho.
But but but…AEON’S END!!!!
That’s why we needed Chris and Wendy on this video.
My votes were:
1 Aeon’s End
2 Bandido
3 Legendary Encounters: Alien
4 So Clover
5 The Crew
6 Just One
7 The Mind
8 Magic Maze
9 Forbidden Desert
10 Micromacro
I think Mike is the best successor of Sam. Not better or less, just different, and still great 🤩
He is much better, IMHO.
Agree.
The popcorn clip needs to be declared eligible for the 2023 highlight show :D.
If you follow the solo rules for Ghost Stories, it’s the easiest way to win (though not really the most fun). It’s possible to use multiple character abilities in one turn using neutral player tokens. Winning on hell difficulty is doable playing solo.
Props to Zee for the Rising 5 recommendation long ago. Many fun hours of family fun with my little kids. Love how my 4 year old and I can both enjoy it.
Which games?
New Sam is killing it with his takes.
I come for the topic, I stay for the entertaining comradery ... Tom, Zee, and Mike just make magic, don't they?
Really really love this type of content.
Don't forget Pax Pamir for the catchupalooza. Mike said he'd teach you guys that game 2 years ago
Tom laughs at people saying there's too much Marvel, but he reacted exactly the same way to zombies back when that was being used as a theme in exactly the same way.
Yeah Marvel United is great but NOT the base game alone. It's only fun after spending hundreds $$$ on expansions
Rescuing Robinhood was an oversight. Pure Co-op. Fun at all ages
Wow, never beat ghost stories. It is surely a hard game. I remember so well the fist day we played it. The very first edition of the rules was more confusing or at least WE had a lot of confusion between how rounds and turns worked (one player move or once around the table) and we got it wrong 3 times in ways that made the game MUCH harder. On the fourth try (first three were quick defeats) we finally played it right and won. It felt great. It was like that winnie the pooh episode where tigger puts weights in their shoes.
Anyway, for a long time it was played a lot at our yearly boardgame friend gathering and we would give the game victory buttons when it would win. It has definitely amassed quite a lot of victories, but I would say we would win about 30 percent of the time.
One co-op I love that I don't seem to see mentioned much anywhere is Dead Men Tell No Tales. Even without the Kraken expansion there's plenty going on, and with the Kraken involved, I think it's just as cinematic as Death May Die, especially when things start exploding.
Zee has it in his top 100 quite often. Not sure it'll still make the list this year
Unsettled is the game that made me realize the coop could be awesome.
It’s a really good one. Does take the right group of course, but don’t they all?
Paleo is my favorite co-op board game.
Would love to see a close up of all your painted Marvel United minis!
idk. Ghost Stories has remained my favorite over the last 10 years in the hobby
great video! Thanks for all you guys do!
Excited to watch this one :)
I heard Final Fantasy Tactics and insta bought Adventure Tactics 2E - looking forward to it :) Thanks for the great work.
One of my favorite cooperative games that's not mentioned here is Carnival Zombie which I recall Tom also liked. It's got such a great sense of masses of enemies coming out, you think "how are we going to beat them", and then your characters are so awesome they plow through them with just enough of an edge to make it to the next wave. (Plus it has that goofy sounding but pretty slick in practice gimmick of dropping dead zombie cubes onto a pile and the ones that fall off come back. It's almost like a mini-cooperative Jenga in the game! 😄)
Zee was playing Ashcan Pete and his dog Duke. I'm just starting Scarlet Keys this week! Keep the faith Zee!
I thought the same thing.
“Juice is worth the squeeze” is from the game brain podcast! They used it first in a riff about heavy board games and if it was worth the effort to play a particular one
Zee: (Concerning his #2 pick) "What it does it does really cleanly" ... Laughs in Sabertooth.
Zee - I bought Subterra after hearing you talk about it. It might be my most played game.
Tom looks like he's ready for summer 😂
Awesome! 👌🙏
Gloomhaven, Death May Die, Massive Darkness, Marvel United, the most expensive Top Ten ever made 😜 Not cash grabs but FOMO nightmares 😅
And to see Spirit beat Gloomhaven in the Peoples Choice.... Oh that makes me so happy. 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
To be fair, you can get the Marvel United base game for about $20, but I get your point.
@@michaeldilisio557 Ha ha true, but how satisfied were you with that box? 😄
@@TheBrokenMeeple yeah, for sure it needs more to have legs to last.
@@michaeldilisio557 I got a bundle of the base game plus spider man and Dr strange for less than 30 on amazon and have no FOMO. But I am not an expansion person anyway. So many great games, just enjoy for what it is and move on.
Spirit Island is $168 for all the gameplay content. Add another $30 if you want the Horizon's spirits. That fits right in with the cost of these other games should you decide to want more content.
Don’t forget Adventure Tactics has an app for both iOS and Android. It’s to help track health and rotate boss cards.
Thanks for the recommendations Guys
I really like co-op games. They're an easy way to introduce people to modern games. Plus, if you have some people that don't like competition or conflict, everyone wins and loses together.
My list
1. Harry Potter: Hogwarts Battle
2. The Crew: Mission
Deep Sea
3. Pandemic Series
4. Xenoshyft: Onslaught
5. Codenames Duet
6. Marvel Legendary
7. Dead Men Tell No Tales
8. Just One
9. Similo
10. Samurai Spirit
1:18:38 YES! ALL THE YES! ZEE YOU ARE SO RIGHT THIS GAME IS AMAZING!!!
Gushing aside I knew this one had to make it because it is a game from fantasy flight that you get the core box, pick what you want, and just go at it. The rules are not too difficult, it sales well for the player amounts, and it is highly customizable both for heroes and villian scenarios. Great pick man.
Will you guys please do another best for 3 players games. I think its been a while since you've done one.
Three Kingdoms Redux - Best 3-player game. No other list is needed. :D
Regarding Chronicles of Crime, I find the scanning to be fairly tedious. There is something novel and fun about looking through the maps and paperwork in Sherlock that CoC can’t replicate. I also think both games have both good and obtuse cases so that is kind of a wash. CoC is a fine and enjoyable games but Sherlock is better by a hair for me.
Great list! You guys are legends!
For me my top ten coops are:
1. Lord of the Rings LCG
2. Star Trek Frontiers
3. X-Men United/Marvel United
4. Marvel Champions
5. Marvel Legendary
6. Aliens Legendary
7. Gloomhaven/JOTL
8. XCOM
9. Imperial Assault
10. Kings of Israel
I cannot wait to see the Dice Tower Vagrantsong artwork :).
Following the live chat, several days later, it's tough to discern which are serious comments and which ones are tongue-in-cheek. The Marvel fatigue may affect many fans of the Dice Tower, but these three are still on board with a lot of Marvel's board game presence. Tom, Zee, and Mike certainly don't need me to defend their choices, but I feel compelled to mention that this (and all other) Top 10 lists are THEIR Top 10 lists. All the grumbling (real or fabricated for the lulz) appears to overlook this.
I would pick
1 My Dungeon crawler of choice, the new TMNT City Fall and Change is Constant
2 Flashpoint is always awesome
3 wrath of the lich king pandemic game
4 marvel champions
5 my group loves the ghostbusters blackout game too. Easy to set up fun, thematic and 30 mins
Don't worry Mike, Thunderbirds is well-regarded. For me, it's the best iteration of the Pandemic 'engine', and the need to consider players on following turns makes it more interesting... albeit if players have someone with an alpha gamer attitude, then that would be problematic.
My biggest gripe, is the peril of IP based games, as Modiphius lost the licence too quickly (I think it had a single print run at retail), and that means some of the expansions fell into fantasy pricing on the secondary market, and it's a shame that it limited the reach of what I think is a superb game.
p.s. for solo I recall them recommending playing 3 handed solo, for the very reasons you suggested pure solo is too difficult.
Spirit Island, Sentinels of the Multiverse, the Crew, Mansions of Madness, XCOM, Horrified, Maximum Apocalypse, Pandemic, Burgle Bros (1, not 2!) and Eldritch Horror for me.
I just received my copy of the Skyrim Adventure Game that I backed last year, but I haven't had a chance to play it yet. It looks promising.
the question about your favored game cant be answered without the circumstances its been played in. i have several favored games and several lists of favored games. all depends on the number of people involved, the mood im in, the time of day/week, the amount of time to play it, the time it needs to be set up, etc... and the number of games i like still grows every day. sometimes i even like a game i normally hate because i play it with a person i like and that person loves the game. i really like to watch you talking about games and sometimes i found new games you talked about and love them too.
Glad to see Forbidden Desert at the end. I have the app version and I really enjoy it.
Dr. Doom version of pandemic I would buy. Using the fantastic four to stop his robots from spreading would be amazing! I wish the world of warcraft version was better, the designers really did a huge disservice to the final boss in that final fight. Might have to try Iberia. Great lists gentlemen.
TNX - finally a sumarry at the end - glad you selected Horrified - a favorite of mine and not a marathon game
I'm a bit surprised Sleeping Gods or Zombicide isn't in here, although my personal nr 1 would be Etherfields.
yes another fan of Etherfields here, though my favourite co-op (indeed my favourite game) would be an earlier AR game - This War of Mine, and whilst *mechanically* I understand those who call it a solo game, for me the narrative shines brightest (and cuts deepest) when I can share the experience with others.
@@iansutton7416 Funny you like This War of Mine even beter. I have it on my schelf too and was going to play it solo yesterday, but last minute switched to Zombicide Undead or Alive. I’ll be playing This War of Mine next… And I agree on the solo vs multiplayer narrative. I like taking the decisions, but the misery and despair hit harder when shared.
From the intro, I'm imagining Zee playing Betrayal at the House on the Hill, in everyone's face about being the traitor right from the beginning, before anyone finds out who the traitor is!
So I think the reason the "masses" like Spirit Island so much is because of the way it is designed. I played the game once and honestly, not my cup of tea...but I did notice very early that the player escalates faster than the natives. So you start out in a serious pickle. but if you manage to scrape by, you eventually outscale the natives and that is your opportunity to win. In short, it is a game where it feels like you don't have a prayer and then you manage to "scrape together" a victory, which is a very rewarding experience for most people...but since I recognized very early that this was going to be the case, I never actually felt like there was any pressure on, so when we won, it didn't feel like much of a victory so much as an eventuality.
To be fair, I was playing with a group of serious gamers and we weren't likely to fall for the traps that would cause us to lose early, which allowed us to easily get to the point where we were overpowered and the game ended almost immediately after that. We could play a harder challenge, but since the challenge is all front-loaded...I'm just not sure what the point would be.
I do understand that Mike enjoys the game and I think there is something here in finding just the right balance of difficultly, even if you realize the nature of the game, so I'm not saying Mike falls into the category of players that like the game for the reason stated above...I'm just saying that it makes sense to me that the "masses" would like it for that reason. There are a lot of serious gamers in that group, but there are also a lot of more casual players in that group and a game where they feel like they've been able to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat just seems to be one that would feel like a good play experience to a lot of that level of player.
Ultimately, this is not a dis on Spirit Island, which is a fine game by its own right...I might even argue that if this was intentional, then more power to them for pulling that off...creating a game where it constantly feels like you are about to lose, right up until you win. I'm glad so many people enjoy it for that reason...I just had a real hard time getting into it personally.
So loved this list in fact made me go out and late pledge Death May Die, then buy the loop and late pledge Return to Dark tower. Plus I’m on the hunt for Last Bastion and Thunderbirds.
I was rewatching this and wanted to comment on Subterra and Zee's wonder why it isn't that popular (Albeit I know he likely won't see this comment at this point).
I personally LOVE Subterra. However, the Kickstarter and the Company really ruined the launch of the game. The Kickstarter was delayed multiple times for about 1.5 to 2 years after the initial fulfillment date. Delays are expected obviously, but this was a bit longer and brought concern. Then with the last delay they told the backers it would be another 3-4 month delay. Two weeks after that update, they were selling retail copies at Essen. The Kickstarter imploded and a lot of people were asking for refunds and some even bought a retail version they got MONTHS before their backer version. It was a real slap in the face.
On top of this, the Kickstarter versions were riddled with errors. Tiles were missing, cards were misprinted, some stretch goals weren't included, etc. It was so bad, they sent a "fixer" pack to all backers 3 months later and even issued partial refunds because one of the stretch goals simply didn't work (diorama). It really hurt the game's and company's rep imo.
Subterra was the first game I backed All-In and the experience has taught me to never back all-in again or back this company. I didn't even consider Subterra II. I don't know how much this caused Subterra to go unnoticed but I think it was a major factor.
Totally agree with Zee about the fun of tile exploration like Sub Terra. Wish there was more options with that mechanism
i dont understand why tom hates spirit island
Arkham Horror LCG is still one of my favorite for sure, but it can be a lot, for sure. FFT is definitely the best FF, Tom, I need to try that Adventure Tactics if it some how made you think of FFT :O also, I think my favorite cooperative might be the Pandemic Legacy games. Love em. Not sure though... hard to say. Also love Captain is Dead a lot.
One of the more underappreciated games out at the moment in my book is Thunderstone Quest. It's easily a top 3 game for the GF and I and the flexibility that it can be played vs, co-op, solo
,epic mode plus other variants means it's unlikely to ever leave our collection. There are more involved deck builders out there, but we just find it really fun. I know C:DMD is all the CMON hotness but there's just something about Cthulu as a theme that's so offputting to me. I do love Zombicide Black Plague though. Some day I hope they offered more advanced mechanisms in the Zombicide Universe, like they do for C:DMD.
Dark Tower was not cooperative. It was basically a race game. Gather as many warriors and items as you can, get back to your realm and defeat the tower d
...oops. before your opponents. There already is a co-op Monopoly...and 23 skidoo.
Great lists; but where’s Burgle Bros? That classic needs some love
This or the second part, which is also lots of fun
Do A Loop 😝. Loves Zee & Mike Interactions
What's the game on the wall, below Switch & Signal, in the red box over Tom's left shoulder?
Big Issue we had with Rising 5. Is the app doesn't track well. It messed up early and I realized that my deduction had to be true, but it failed. I looked back at history and saw it was reading the colors incorrectly. Once realized this, we manually enter the colors because their barcode + color scan doesn't work.
I want to hear Tom compare Adventure Tactics with Gloomhaven - what kind of person would you recommend one vs the other? How is the experience similar/different?
A game I DEEPLY recommend is The Shipwreck Arcana. Absolutely fantastic co-op hidden information game.
Agree completely with Tom about being fine with folks discussing exactly what card they’re going to play in Gloomhaven. The communication rules feel very artificial to me, and I prefer to just talk about what we’re going to play if we want to.
My top ten:
1. Lord of the Rings LCG
2. Marvel Champions (Zee 2)
3. Arkham Horror LCG (Zee 7)
4. Horrified
5. Marvel United (Tom 5, Mike 3, Zee 1)
6. Tome Saga for West Kingdom Trilogy
7. Gloomhaven (Jaws of the Lion) (Tom 3)
8. Legendary
9. Just One
10. Foundations of Rome
Great list, dudes!
Sub Terra is a great game. The sequel is showing up in stores, so hopefully it will reach backers soon.
Zee and I agree a lot on games, and I was very excited to get the beautiful Atlantis Rising. However, it really fell flat for me. It was just too long and samey; if it had been 30 minutes shorter it may have stayed in my collection.
Just finished sleeving all of my Marvel United last night....
14:20 2v2 player chess is incredibly underrated
18 Marvel games, but no love for “Horrified”. 😢
I used to love Horrified, and have it in my top 10.
but Marvel United is like Horrified but with 50 to 100 different villains, and with at least 50 to 100 unique heroes.
so yeah it is just better in every single aspect. try it.
Defenders of the Realm is so much better than Pandemic. Unfortunately it wasn't produced by a bigger company and has struggled with staying in print. Also out of print is the TMNT game series by IDW Games, which are tons of fun but do have some upkeep and have a competitive option.
My favorite co-op is Aeon's End by a mile. Highly recommend.
What happened to Time Stories? I thought it was for a while at the top of your Co-op list.