Is an EV Worth It? (ENG) - Marek Drives
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ม.ค. 2024
- Is buying an EV worth it? Internet forums are full of testimonials from satisfied EV drivers, as well as criticisms from those, who feel only internal combustion engine gives the freedom to travel, like nature intended.
Emotions are the worst advisors. So today I’ll try to tell you how it is, taking into account arguments from both sides, which I think are sensible.
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Unfortunately so many people just choose the wrong vehicle for their use. In my 40 years of driving nothing has changed - people choose huge cars then can’t park them, diesels when they only drive a few miles per week, EVs when they do mostly long journeys or have no home charging. Small petrol cars when they expect to tow a large trailer/caravan. The list is endless.
FACTS!!!
❤
@@alliejr… the OP is basically right. A lot of people buy “ with their heart “ and not with their head..
You associated with some serious dumb people then!
Yep, that's exactly what happens, 95% of the time. I'm guilty of it myself, not just once.
Plan on keeping my Passat TDI as long as I can, what a lot of people dont take into account is that keeping your older car that works is probably better for the environment than junking it and buying a new one (Electric or ice)
Guess it depends on the mgp, but we're the same.
2 x paid off diesels, both avg 55mpg, and in good health for their 67k and 77k mileage.
The oldest by far (1.4 '07 fiesta) we've just invested a few hundred in a timing belt, water pump, aux belt in the hope this will also last another 20-30k miles.
It's not that we can't afford new cars, it's just I've always viewed them as necessary evils, and in the meanwhile pouring the prospect new car loan / lease money into mortgage overpayments.
That's done in 4-5 years, and maybe the EV offerings and infrastructure will have matured by then
Problem is that there are more and more zones popping up in Europe where old diesels are banned.
@@JohnDoe-vx3z Our main family diesel is Euro6 (2016) so currently bypassing those concerns in the UK.
If you had to regularly drive into an emission zone location, then perhaps an EV might give you a chance at ROI
@JohnDoe-vx3z I live in Canada so that really isn't a major concern for me. I just like my reliable car that's paid off and love not having a 50,000 CAD car loan for a car that only goes 300kms on a full charge.
My whole thing is that we've already poluted the world to make our existing cars. No point of junking mine so I have to buy an electric car who's components have to be mined out of the ground by an African child
Everyone knows that best car is company car. 😉
I changed from diesel to hybrid in last few months. I don't have my own drive way but 4 neighbours over last 5yrs who went EV went back to ICE cars mainly because of charging infrastructure issues at home and in public (Ireland). I loved the diesel but I'm not doing the miles I use to and hybrid so far is much better around town and on journeys to to 100km p/h. Motorway 120km driving, diesel is smoother, and more economic . Cold weather does affect mpg but overall, I am very happy with hybrid . Great video. Thanks Marek.
What sort of mpg you getting now pls?
Any what model?
In response to your blizzard of pros and cons, I'm inclined to respond, "So it's all perfectly simple then". Assume sarcasm as you wish.
Seriously some of us need a car that fits into a busy life spent doing things that matter to us. We want to jump in and take long journeys without a planning exercise worthy of a military invasion.
I honestly think that depreciation costs can’t be ignored on any car, but specially on most EVs.
Even those who have more credentials by time doing them (Tesla) suffer a lot of in their resale value, and Elon Musk has been giving a hand at increasing depreciation by lowering the price of (the same) brand new car!
When Tesla (or any other brand) decides to lower the price by 2.000 euros, anyone who bought the car loses (roughly) that money instantly.
Losing an additional 2.000€ on a brand new car surely offsets the price difference per km when compared to ICE cars.
Depreciation can be diluted by keeping the car for longer, but then we enter the next question:
- Will most current EVs be able to run after 15/20 years, or will they be in the scrap yard way before that?
Insurance costs have been rising exponentially on some countries on EVs, due to their repair costs in case of accident.
That’s also something to consider in the math.
Despite their numbers of parts and increased complexity, ICE cars have been kept on the road for decades due to the aftermarket and used parts availability.
If the ICE car has an huge problem (like a blown engine) and it’s already 8 years old, paying for a new replacement engine might not be financially viable, but chances are that a good condition used engine might be available from a donor car that was involved in a crash.
When a EV is involved in a crash, is much more common that the most expensive part (battery) is also compromised.
EVs certainly have their place and benefits (I think that any major city would be better without ICE cars), but regulations have been much faster than technology and infrastructure.
Having to carefully plan longer trips with “refueling” stops in mind isn’t something new, and that’s the problem!
That actually sounds old that only older people can remember!
Then came evolution, and fuel stations became available on relatively small distance intervals, so it became a non issue.
But even then, it would take 20 or 30 minutes to fill up a tank of gas, unless there were a lot of cars in the line filling up.
But if there’s a line of cars on a charging station waiting to recharge, those 20 or 30 minutes will multiply by the number of cars in front of you, with some taking more time to charge.
I wouldn’t call that progress on mobility either. 😉
Sure, things will improve with time, but no one is able to live in the future.
Anyone who’s buying a new car today is going to face these realities, and the greatest percentage of car owners all over the world can’t charge at home, which is part of the reason why EV sales have been growing slower than expected.
Anyone who’s only able to charge at public stations is faced with a reality way different on many levels, from electricity prices to the precious free time spent doing something that was much faster.
Does anyone feel the same peace of mind with its only car parked on the street with 20% charge?
If there’s any kind of emergency, is the car ready to do its job?
While I may feel somewhat negative about EVs, I’m only putting out some facts that the average consumer might easily face with the ownership of EVs.
They’re great at many things, but as a whole, are they as dependable transportation method as the ones that came right before them ? 😉
Maybe one day, but not today.
Simples !..... People are interested but holding back because 1.Cost of vehicle 2.Charging costs 3.Range 4.Public charger actually working.5.Higher Insurance etc,etc.
They must have a point,as EV car prices have crashed.This will help with my first reason 😅!
You just need to find the right car. To your points:
1) my electric MINI cost the same as the petrol version with the same options. In the UK, with their subsidies, it was cheaper.
2) I have solar, but even without that, I charge at home - about $5 Australian (3 Euro) a week (200km). You would need a very efficient ICE car to beat that.
3) Ok, it only does 250km. When was the last time I drove more than 250km in a day - 2014.
4) In 3 years I have used 2 public chargers - mainly to see if it worked :)
5) My insurance is lower than the ICE model - possibly due to my age.
For me, there is no other sane option. As a bonus, the electric MINI is one of the most fun cars to drive that you can buy today ( for real money, not small country GDP). Just look around and choose the car that is right for you - I did and have never regretted it. I have owned it 3 years btw.
Marek you're absolutely right. In Turkiye it seems to me like it's a toy for rich to own an EV. As you may remember I have a 2011 Ford Focus which runs on LPG. Considering the tax and running costs I own one of the most cheap to run car on the whole planet. I'm not so happy with my car but it is what it is. In my country I think we have at least a 10yrs time to say electric cars worth it. But I'd love to own a hybrid car in that 10 year transitional time.
As others have said, you've definitely got to the core of it. It's not worth it for me at present. I'm about to replace my old Honda with a newer small ICE. As for EVs, the complexity, relatively scarcity and unreliability of the charging network here in the UK, and cost, have put me off for the time being.
Watching Carwow etc., I was under the impression your charging infrastructure is pretty good (at least compared to Poland). But as they say, the grass is always greener on the other side.
@@MarekDrivesENG it's certainly improving, Marek, but if you don't own a Tesla, it can be very variable, particularly outside the conurbations. I do like EVs for their refinement and torque, but I don't think they're quite they're yet.
I have an EV and love it but the charging infrastructure in the UK is tragic. Unreliable and slow.
@@robwatson1801 I agree, Rob. I nearly bought an EV, but friends told me the same. We're still way off where we need to be to make seamless EV motoring viable.
@@Ambienfinity Exactly. I love mine and 95% of the time I never think about driving an ICE car. It's genuinely brilliant BUT I do have a home charger and a EV tariff. So 350 miles in summary, 230 in winter isn't bad for £13.50. But...not only is the charging infrastructure incredibly unreliable...it was only last year that card payments were required. Prior to that there were a multitude of different apps, RFID cards etc. Can you imagine ICE drivers putting up with that at the fuel station? Absolutely ridiculous. Every EV driver/owner I know despises the charging infrastructure. It is also incredibly unreliable. If you drive into several motorway service stations - you'll see chargers with no connection. No explanation . Some say they are waiting power from the DNO...for over a year. If you ask National Grid - they tell you there is no shortage of power. So what's the problem? Permissions? Planning? Councils? Also, the chargers are extortionate. My home charger is 7p per kilowatt. Shell Recharge is 85p per kilowatt. As is BP Pulse. Ionity, Instavolt are both 79p. Absolute rip off. I only use them if I cannot make it home. Pod point slower chargers are more reasonably priced but the govt approach is unsustainable.
Excellent video, Marek! Feels like this topic easily gets emotional (sometimes for myself also!), but your stuff was rational and neutral - great stuff!
Thanks. There are so many factors to consider, when choosing an EV. In some countries incentives are so enticing that it just makes sense. But generally speaking it's for the wealthier buyers to optimise their taxes.
From my experience as an EV owner, I live in Canada, so it gets really cold here for 3 or 4 months of the year, there are no issues with the charging as long as you have a place to charge overnight. The calculation you (Marek) made, comparing the petrol vs the BEV versions of the same car are really unfair, because people will always buy cars according to their wallets. If somebody is in the market for a 35000 Euro car, will never get the Peugeut 208, which is a 15000 to 25000 euro depenging on options.
Let me explain how it was for me: I leased a 2017 Honda CR-V, and I was paying CAD $210 every two weeks, plus the gasoline around $50 a week. That would be equivalent to around $670 per month. Mind you, leasing is cheaper than buying. In fact, I activated the option of buying since the market was crazy and I made $6000 profit when I sold the car.
Then in 2022 I purchased a Tesla Model 3. I pay $490 per month for the car and .. $10 per month in electricity. So now, every month, I have $170 more in my wallet. And there are no oil changes. Tire wear you say? I rotate them every 10000 kms (Michelin Cross-Climate) but they are guaranteed for 70000 km. The same as I had on my CR-V. And at the end of the loan, there will be a residual value that could be used to trade it for another car.
But sure, if your budget is only for a $18000 car, I suppose a brand new EV is not for you.
Also, if your driving is more outside of the city, and you constantly need to drive 200km a day, I fear EVs are not that usable yet. You can still make the choice, but you have to understand the risks.
But as the stats show, 90% of the people drive on average 50km a day. That's about 18000 km a year. If you have a house or place to charge and you are in that group, you could buy an EV.
My tip is, don't listen to your local Tesla slappy.
Congrats, you basically nailed it. BTW we just picked up our full EV ( you know the one produced in Poland😅)replacing the combustion family city car. With a profile of 90% of pure city use and home loading option there is by no means any doubt as to why this is the better option. Everything depends on the assumed use case.
A Polish Jeep... what has the world come to 🤣
@MarekDrivesENG , well I admit that Polands road network is getting better and better at an incredible speed (which we dream of in 🇩🇪), however thinking of some countryside roads in the Sieradzki area which I often frequent for family reasons, probably there is a reason behind. All the best and hopefully you'll get a good piece of sernik from Anna for the weekend:-) which btw is another thing I do dream of here in Germany 🇩🇪...
Actually I think today we're having szarlotka (Apfelkuchen), but I buy it at a dodgy looking place, that sells old school home-like pastries :)
Are you planning to drive that Avenger from Germany to Poland or do you have an ICE car for that?
@@Ellipirelli69 Anna here. Apfelkuchen Marek had procured was top notch! Sieradzki area is kinda my family place as well, my father was born in a small village nearby Sieradz, lived in Pabianice for a while, lots of family in Lodz, Sieradz, and so on.
@AniaiMarekJada That is great to hear 😀 I do love that area. Szarlotka is also one of my favorites I had my best bite of it last year in Szklarska Poreba 😉
I was dead against going EV when I came to the end of my PCP on a M340i Touring. When I looked at refinancing the balloon or getting a new model, the monthly’s were crazy due to the APR on the finance. Ended up going with an i4 M50 via salary sacrifice, as it was way cheaper per month and had maintenance and insurance rolled in to the monthly payment. Don’t have to worry about depreciation or rising insurance premiums. Had it two weeks and really like it, especially the remote pre-heating! I don’t think EV’s are the future though, it’s probably more to drive the majority of people out of driving altogether. Range not a major concern for me as rarely go on a round trip of more than 200 miles. If you need to do long journeys to random destinations, I think the headache and cost of DC charging would drive you mad.
"...it’s probably more to drive the majority of people out of driving altogether."
That's a very dystopian, and at the same time plausible observation.
I think he's bang on with that really.
We really should have continued the home working push post Covid, for ecological reasons if nothing else.
Those who where able and benefited from WFH, should have then all contributed to a small, additional tax, which went towards bolstering and subsidising public transport.
Ultimately we do need to wean ourselves off personal vehicles, however uncomfortable that is I guess.
Whilst stupidly expensive now (I think the avg UK driver was typically 2nd hand in the range of 13-17k) sheer production volumes will obviously get this closer.
Can't see this really being the case until 2035 or slightly beyond
Traded in our EV for a plug in hybrid as the UK charging network is not fit for purpose.
This is a wrong question to ask, as worth has different meanings for different people. When *trully* calculating worth there are so many subjective factors that can affect the bottom line. People spend money for pleasure, so how do you quantify numerically the pleasure you get from ICE/EV car. People spend money for convenience, people spend money for "standing out of the crowd". For me it is hard to imagine that someone would buy a new 60k Euro EV just to save money on gas. Makes no sense to me.
That's why I say there are factors like convenience and comfort to take into account. Everyone will put a different price on that.
Nice breakdown of the topic, Marek. As always, horse for courses and people will need to do a deep dive of their use case.
Personally, a PHEV would suit best for us as we are a single car family and only need to do short trips during the week. There's still almost zero EV infrastructure where I live so we'll still need to rely on ICE for further trips. I'm hoping my current car lasts long enough for more chargers to be built so I do have the choice to go full EV.
Loved the idea of EV, the UFO like dynamics, drive by a gasoline station and smugly smile. But, then I got sober. We already have examples, where local municipalities with a high EV percentage already ask population to save electricity so the grid can cope. One EV at a supercharger while charging uses as much electricity as a small village. Imagine we all drive EVs and a portion at a supercharger sucks out all that power. And the comfort, there is a video of driving an EV with a blanket on the knees, because they are trying to save on range by leaving the heater off! Now that's a progress! Maintenance is indeed cheaper, but how about accident repairs when batterie replacement is imminent due to a bump? Statistically they are also not more reliable than ICE cars. Depreciation - omg, the depreciation.
Electric motor, controller, and energy storage ( battery) This tech is decades old with decades old issues. Lithium and sodium batteries were developed in the 70s ! Ev's roots can be traced back over a hundred years. Just like ice vehicles
Two of the biggest employers in my town were Harbilt (ev manufacturers) and Tungsten batteries. My father drove a ev delivery vehicle for 33 years .
There is nothing new, just different packaging.
Like Your style, videos and DC in Poland 👍 😁
I drive 45000km in a year. 90% is local with home charge. My solar covers all my km. It works for me 100%.
In my calculation, with my yearly km, after 5 years my solar an ev investment will pay back. Looking for that, till then enjoying free city parking, bus lain driving and pease of mind considering that at least 4/5 tons of petrol didn’t burn in my city. And money wasn’t send by oil pipe to some “unfriendly” contry 😉
That's a lot of driving, but if you can cover all of that with free solar, then it's a no-brainer.
My very pertinent question is not about EVs but .. do those sound deadning pads work? And can you only use it to prevent others from hearing your voice or do they also work to block noise from the neighbours?
That is a much more important question to be answered.
They were an aesthetically pleasing cheaper alternative to proper studio foam. You can also achieve pretty good effects with big egg cartons. They are mainly to prevent sound waves bouncing from the walls (i.e. reduce echo), but if you want a room, where nobody can hear you scream, you'll need some more sound insulation on the walls.
www.everest.co.uk/windows/noise-reduction-window/how-to-soundproof-room/
@@MarekDrivesENG I don't really mind if people hear me scream when I am in the room, however I have a neighbour that tends to speak every loudly and I am currently trying to find a solution for him not waking me at night.
That said, of course I try not to scream too loudly and not to wake up the neighbours myself. 😅
@@MarekDrivesENG now.... Going back on topic... My experience with EVs was terrible.
I had a friend with a rental e-c4 and he asked me to go charge it with him.
I didn't find it any more quiet than an ICE car... We spent hours going from one charger to another because none would work properly (we couldn't start them from the app although it was supposed to)... We ended up spending 40min to charge the battery about 50% on a dark car park, at night, with lots of cold and it costed more than it would to fill it with diesel for the same range and it was at a supermarket charger which is cheaper.
I ended up with a massive cold... My throat was completely ruined from the cold air and I had to fly to Poland in 2 days... It was a mess and I hated it.
Fortunately I managed to get to Gdansk and Gdinya and then I made a road trip with a diesel car from there to Plymouth.
So much better.
I suggest your neighbour gets more carpets and bookshelves, especially on the walls, which separate your apartments. Because the soundproofing needs to be on their side to prevent the sound waves from hitting the wall, which then resonates. Anything on your side is just a bandaid on a broken bone.
@TheAllMightyGodofCod looked at the map to see where Plymouth is, and the first thing that stood out was The Hoe. Americans must love it there :)
Also, your EV charging misadventure does sound like many of my attempts to get by in an emergency situation. Under normal circumstances you'd either have a place to charge at home or know the area, and the charging networks. Sort of like when you're a student, and you know all the places that serve cheap beer.
Fantastic review 😃
I think PEHV can make sense for a lot of people, but from the models I've been looking at, it seems that reliability can be a real problem and the weight of them often offsets any efficiency gain if you do a longer journey. I've been asking dealers how much the battery costs to replace in some of their PEHVs, and I'm still waiting for an answer. They clam up really quickly - so we can conclude that it's expensive and they don't want to discuss the fact that it *will* degrade and probably fail at some point leaving an owner with several thousands in repairs on a car that may only be worth twice that (or less).
For Western and Nothern mainland Europe High Power Charging networks are excellent, also ones that are not superchargers. Add that you can use tesla chargers as a non tesla a lot of the time.
If you're a company car driver and saving thousands of pounds/euros a year then, yes.
If leasing or through salary sacrifice, may be.
Buying new with your own cash, no.
Buying second hand nearly new , yes.
Being able to home charge or charge at work, it's a must really.
If you normally drive less than 150 miles (240kms) per day, then yes.
If on the other hand you own a 12yo diesel and simply must be able to drive 600miles (960kms) in one go and fill up in 5 minutes then, no.
If I was rich I would have an EV. Now that I am poor I have Skoda diesel. Thats life.
Skoda diesel is a safe choice. At leat you'll get to your destination :)
Rich is an overstatement, I got a Fiat 500e electric 5 years ago for $8k it's been trouble free and gas free finally has lost a little range, best deal ever. Even that was a little above my usual car allowance, paid off
What matters is the total monthly cost. I pay less per month with my Tesla Model 3 than before with my previous 2015 Kia Ceed Diesel. I can tell you a long list of savings which is hard to believe, in my case it adds up to several £100 per month.
Not everyone has the entry $/£, or chooses not to spend that. I paid $30K for my Bolt, to me that's a lot for a vehicle, M3 is $39K
@@rp9674
I paid considerably less for my Tesla Model 3 than you paid for your Bolt. I took advantage of the high depreciation and bought it 3 years old, it had already lost over half it's original value, being an EV with very low wear and tear, it does feel and look like a new car. I also financed it, again, what matters is how much you pay monthly, each case is different, but there are people that would pay less monthly for a Model 3 than for a Bolt if you take in account you can use Tesla Superchargers for 1/3 of the cost of other public superchargers, also the fact that Tesla's go quite a bit further per kWh etc. You can't just count the purchase price.
There's something else to consider in the EV story, which is the environment. Batteries require one the most pollutant mining and manufacturing processes of rare earth elements, which they are also hard to find. And once they reach the end of their life expectancy, they have very difficult recycling. According to a Greenpeace report, only around 5% of Li-ion batteries can be recycled. The rest becomes pollution. All these problems look to me of far more importance.
LOL. Oh the poor environment. I guess I should buy a shitty gas car to save it. NFW. BTW, batteries do not contain any RE elements, so don’t fret about that.
@georgepelton5645 I don't think this is a laughing matter. My point is that population expansion, natural resources exhaustion, and environmental pollution require a more radical rethinking of personal transport that the EVs provide.
For me it's worth it because I charge home, have PV panels, and my EV suits 99% of my usage, driving EV since mid 2020 without any issue. We also have an hybrid at home as second car as we need to cars for our family. I take the hybrid when we go to holiday for like 1500-2500 km but my EV got me perfectly right for 5-600 road trips. Biggest problem for me is resale value, and so you would tell me to lease, but leasing EV's is then also very expensive because of the low resale. I would also not advise to buy an EV if you cannot charge home as here in Belgium (French speaking part), charging infrastructure is bad to say the least. For long journeys, check for a B-plan for charging as some chargers are defect/occupied (the car tells you that but it's not up to date all the time). If you are looking for a powerful car, an EV can be a good deal, as some high power EVs cost less than their ICE counterparts...
...and what about the loss of value when selling the car? I'm sure many have seen the story from Canada with replacing the battery on the new Hyundai Ionic. There are more disadvantages than advantages. Moreover, I saw a video from the USA in which they say that Ford has big problems...losses...and reductions in the production of electric cars. Hundreds of thousands of cars sit and gather dust in parking lots. Probably, the time has not yet come for a total change to electric cars. And the same Cybertruck, with the start of sales, did not live up to the stated sales expectations. At the moment, it looks like a big marketing bubble. Thanks for the overview of current topics! Maybe someone will think twice...
Ford seems to have problems selling F-150 Lightning, but the Mach-E is doing well enough. IMO nobody needs an electric pickup truck Tesla Cybertruck and Rivian RT1 are lifestyle vehicles, not real work trucks.
@@MarekDrivesENG Agree! Most likely, they relied on a longer battery charge and mileage, thereby increasing production volumes. But something went wrong. The reliability of the system leaves much to be desired. And how many videos from the US show how electric cars light up while charging in garages or supermarket parking lots. Also, there is a huge problem with loss of travel range due to cold temperatures. A friend of mine has a Nissan Leaf, and he only drives it to work and home from work, and he can’t even stop at the supermarket on the way back, because there are only 5 charging stations, and it makes no sense to drive during rush hour, since , he will not be able to charge and drive home. And he bought it at a huge discount for 15,000 usd, because it had been parked for 3 years (!!!) before being sold.
Firstly, don't buy a car for an investment. Buy new or used whichever is the best deal
I'll postpone getting an EV as long as possible as it wouldn't fit well in my life at this time.
It was -31C in Canada last week. We got an alert to please reduce your electric consumption otherwise the province will have to do rolling blackouts. This included no EV charging. So, what happens the day when everyone has an EV? We are decades away from an EV in every home, so EV fanboys are fanboys because of these cars' exclusivity, not because it makes sense. So, while EV owners are stuck at the mall in -31C, I'm driving away in my V8 C8 Corvette ... and yes, I drive my C8 in the winter in -31C. It works just fine, and the EV fanboys just stare as I drive away, loudly. 😁
RWD, mid engine in the snow. Kudos!
I like my MX-5, when it's snow and sun, but I have nothing on you :)
I have tried to spread the approach that EV make lot of sense if there is overproduction or underusage of electricity in your region, the climate suits for batteries and you are not driving long distances or tow heavy trailers. I understand modern culture requires black or white approach and hard fights, but please don't and choose what suits you.
The success of EV's is going to be based ultimately on one thing: the state of the infrastructure where you live. In Canada, it's deplorable except for a tepid few highly populated areas, and even then it's borderline. Straight up, hybrids make a lot more sense here, which explains why they are sold out everywhere here. In northern climates, hybrids are the more practical all-round choice and represent our future for a long time to come. EV's up here are only for people who have done the math and find financial benefit based on their lifestyle and the government subsidies available (taking fanboys out of the picture). God forbid should everyone all of sudden go out a buy an EV over here, because our infrastructure would collapse under their weight (pun intended).
In the UK, with my Tesla Model 3, I pay 2p/mile or £2 per 100 miles/160km charging at home with Octopus Intelligent.
Wow! You even have special EV energy tariffs. Nobody thought of that here in Poland. I know we still have relatively cheap energy, but that's changing fast. I'm lucky to have the solar, as energy prices spiked about 50% since pre-covid, and that's not the end of it, with the war in Ukraine, etc.
In my experience driving a lot: EV buyers are not car enthousiasts. I dare even say: most of them just can't drive.
Looking at that it is quite clear why car reviews have changed completely. It's about the infotainment system, noise and charging speed. Yes, and 0..60 times... because these elephants just don't corner. At best they're ok. Until you turn off ESP, which can't be done anyway because then it will kill the inexperienced driver.
For me an EV is like a Bluetooth speaker compared to an high end hifi system. If you're not musical you won't notice the difference and will never understand.
Then I must be an exception, I'm at my second EV (after like 12 ICE cars) and both were/are amazing to drive !
@@Kellric7 many EV owners are very enthusiastic about their cars. But question here is: how do you define amazing to drive? Your driving style may be the exact opposite of mine.
@@asphalthedgehog6580 I meant spirited driving of course, as any EV is good at cruising effortlessly and silently. I meant precise and direct steering, no bodyroll when cornering, behavior of rear drivetrain, response of the brakes... but anyway we can have different driving styles AND both be car enthusiasts !
@@Kellric7 of course we can. I drove the new model 3 3 weeks ago, and to me it's a dull car. I drove a BMW M6 and that is a car that would be completely undriveable without electronics keeping it on the road.
The moment a car weighs more than 2400lbs something goes wrong completely.
Hello from the west coast of Canada. My '23 Chevy Bolt euv was $25,000 less than the average price of a car in Canada in 2023. My experience is that charging at home costs 1/3 of what it cost putting gas into my '19 awd Prius, which averaged 3.9L/100kms from new over 88,600kms. I like the smaller size and efficiency of the Bolt, and after buying it I sold five gas and diesel vehicles, as I didn't want to drive them anymore -- the crazy used car market of 2022 helped that decision. My next plan is solar and battery storage at home. I don't see myself going back to dino-juice vehicles. My driving distances allow driving an ev without problem, even in the winter in an ev without a heat pump.
That's a good deal. In Europe sub-30k EVs are rare, and people rarely keep more than two cars, so they really have to think about what cars they choose, and for what purpose.
I gather Canada's west coast has milder weather, than say Ontario or Alberta, so your EV gets decent electricity milage. Currently I'm reviewing a Chinese made MG4 in slightly above freezing temperatures, and the consumption is atrocious (25+ kWh/100km - that's about 2.4 miles/kWh).
@MarekDrivesENG -- Regarding temperatures, we had -13c when central BC, Alberta, and Saskatchewan were at -35 or colder.
@MarekDrivesENG -- In the summer my Bolt uses 11-15kwh/100kms, where in the winter here I've seen as bad as 24, depending on the situation.
I think you made a crucial mistake in calculating the average charging/fuel cost. By assuming that we charge at home, we pretty much rule out the average person, who lives in an apartment. Owning a house is sadly a luxury for most. That means we should compare average charging cost from public chargers during peak hour vs gas stations. I believe the difference then becomes a lot smaller.
I recently watched High Peak Autos trip in UK with an electric Audi. I recommended you check it out, as it shows very well the problems with charging infrastructure, even when there are apparently lots of chargers. And it also demonstrated very well how public charging can end up costing pretty much the same as filling an ICE car. And of course the underlying range anxiety.
There's never one ideal scenario for everyone. I ordered solar a couple of weeks before Covid hit, because I had a reservation for the 1st Edition ID.3. The assumption was I need some excess energy to charge for free, but since I review cars for a living, this car won't do high milage around home. Possibly I'd do some roadtrips in it, maybe set up a separate EV-dedicated channel, but with Covid all that went to shit, and since there were delays with the ID.3, I cancelled the reservation. And that was the right thing to do, as the ID-series VWs are mediocre.
On my Polish channel I just had a viewer explain he has even more excess solar energy, drives 15-20k km a year for free, and at the end of the lease he'll buy the car from the leasing company, and sell it tax free.
So it really depends on what's one's situation.
As far as EV roadtrips are concerned, I've done my fair share. Some where more successful than others:
th-cam.com/video/sMOvGnkFzug/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/3eag_NaXuQY/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/tuBJ1vP3iek/w-d-xo.html
@@MarekDrivesENG Yeah, I get that there's not one ideal scenario. My concern was more that we should assume the worst case scenario with only using public charging when comparing with ICE cars, to really give the perspective for the Average Joe who has no access to home charging or free charging.
I'd really like to own an EV, but sadly in my corner of Estonia the infrastructure needs some improvements. And now that we had some -25 weather, some EV owners got a harsh reality check (an electric police vehicle lost almost 50% range!)
Cool, I'll check those videos out.
NL is possibly the most obsessed country to push for EV and it is very expensive to drive ICE. 😢
8:45 the 13k difference does not really have to be fully compensated if you plan to sell your car. Only the depreciated part. Otherwise you could also argue that it's never worth to buy a Mercedes because it's more expensive than other brands and everbody would be driving around in Dacias.
Well, a Mercedes is (used to be) worth more in comfort and luxury than a Dacia. That's what you're paying for.
Also, I may be a bit Central/East Europe centric here, as private buyers choose cars to last them years.
You forgot to mention the amazing fire risk of EVs. They tend to spontaneously catch fire on a far higher pro-rata basis and extinguishing an EV fire is incredibly difficult - fire crews often literally have to wait for the batteries to finish themselves. The fumes from an EV fire are extremely toxic and the fires are also much hotter than with an ICE vehicle, causing much more damage to anything adjacent (other vehicles, road surfaces, the occasional ship that gets sunk...). I get nervous if I'm about to board a ferry between England and Europe and see an EV will be joining my journey. There is often absolutely no warning that such a fire is about to occur - it's almost like Russian Roulette.
EV fires are more spectacular (hence get more media coverage and fearmongering), but not more frequent, than in ICE cars. Yes, they are difficult to put out, and require different approach, but I'm sure the same was being said about kerosene lamps. How many homes burned down because of those back in the day :)
@@MarekDrivesENG I think the problem is that if you turn off an ICE car, it is extremely unlikely to just burst into flames 10 minutes later, they tend to catch fire while in active use - which people notice and do something about. They very quickly burn themselves out or can be extinguished in some cases by the driver. EVs can catch fire while unattended on charge - which is a concern when people are encouraged to charge overnight on smart home chargers and so on, and putting an EV fire out is impossible without emergency services. So the frequency may be similar but the danger and end results are significantly worse.
@@system11yt fair point. They can do much more damage to property.
7:15 I am dubious when you assert that US EV drivers make more use of public charging. Most (>90%) of US EV owners charge at home. The Chicago anomaly was mostly a confluence of abnormally cold weather and inexperienced/ignorant ride-share drivers and their recently leased EVs.
Yeah, that's what I thought. American suburbia, everyone has a plug, who'd be so stupid to buy an EV, and use the public charging network, especially frequent rapid charging, which is detrimental to the battery, right?
Well, fuck me with an NACS plug.
insideevs.com/news/705338/norway-winter-ev-charging-no-trouble
www.spglobal.com/mobility/en/research-analysis/affordability-tops-charging-and-range-concerns-in-slowing-ev-d.html
Haven't watched the video yet, but, as an EV owner myself (based in CZ): it's not worth it, unless you drive a lot (in this case fuel and maintenance savings start to matter even with public charging) and/or you have your own charing station, preferrably with an exhange tarrif and a smart meter.
Roadtrips are not as bad as many people think they are, btw. The main source of pain is finding an AC charger for your day to day driving.
So what's your use case scenario? Do you charge at home or have you found a reliable AC charger somewhere convenient? If so, do not disclose this precious location :)
@@MarekDrivesENG I live in an apartment with a parking garage, but the management company doesn't allow charging stations, sadly. I am lucky to have a relatively cheap (8czk(32 cents)/kwh) AC charger at my workplace. But whenever I am not driving to work, charging places are expensive, scarce, inconvenient and unreliable.
Pro tip - if you ever hapen to visit Czechia, and there is a Kaufland close to your destination, use it. They only charge 6 CZK (24 cents) per kwh for AC, and they don't charge any blocking fees for the first 4 hours.
I think it's non-sensical to go anything but EV in my specific situation.
Small country. I never need to travel more than 250km anywhere. I have a house, can home charge. I live in the city. Even in routes I rarely go above 90Km/h. Gas is almost $2 per liter, so about $24/100km. 1KWh is $0.11 So about $1.2/100km.
About 20 times cheaper.
I can't figure out, which country is that. My low energy price guesses like Bulgaria, Malta, Macedonia have much cheaper gas.
The Ev and phev and hybrid cars are to expensive to normal working class. We live in Austria vith normal austrian salary and we cannot afford Ev with this prices. So ve have now all gasoline cars.
I drive an electric MINI. It is a really efficient (around town) ev. It cost about the same as the petrol model, so the financial side is a no brainer. It is just better to drive. I fill up at home, for about $5 Australian a week. The equivalent petrol for the same distance is around $50. As I said, a no brainer. It goes 250km max, due to being driven in the subtropics, so no downsides. I would never get an ICE car again.
Running cost the same yes if compare EV and ICE. If you are comparing Corolla Hybrid over EV mini and price difference is $30k Australian. It will take you 20 years to recoup the difference when driving EV. Dont forget insurance cost is double the cost of ICE insurance. After 10 years, Corolla resale value definitely worth more than Mini EV. Also Corolla Hybrid battery never need to replace it for at least 15 years.
@@andyyuen84 Firstly though, you are driving a corolla rather than a MINI. That is worth 30k in my opinion:) Secondly, my insurance was less than my wife's 4 year old Honda Jazz, not double. You need to compare apples to apples. Would you drive a corolla that is 25k more than a Wuling MINI? Not the same class of car. The MINI needs to be compared against, I don't know, a MINI (petrol). Same price for the same options, much cheaper to run, service, tax the EV. Insurance the same (slightly lower for the EV oddly enough). Again, total no brainer. That is why the EV is the number one selling MINI model around the world.
nope.
however, some EV owners are also looking at how much electric is wasted by inverters and heat when charging at home.
Some EV cars have as large as 10% waste.
i.e. your 40 kw battery needs 45kw of electric to charge.
so your EV may not be as green charging up at home compared to a fast charger (that has a different charger).
In a word, yes. Very much so.
Elaborate please.
If you have to ask if an EV is worth it you're the perfect EV customer.
I think a used EV would be much more economical than a similar priced ICE car
Yes, I'm yearning for one of those e-Golfs.
I have a PHEV, best and at the same time, worst of both worlds. Mostly the best in my situation as I travel everyday less than 50 km, and more than that during weekends.
There is L2 non Tesla charging, easy, simple, semi widely available, frequently used by Teslas. DC fast charging not as much
You say you will need to drive an EV for 11 years or so before the price differential to an ICE car is made up. How much range will an EV car have after 11 years of running compared to an 11 year old ICE car?
Assuming 1-2 percent annual degradation probably 7-8 percentage points less, than original. Assuming mainly slow home charging, and no extreme weather conditions.
Thats is wildly optimistic. Many batteries degrade 10% ina very shirt time.
I love my fishing weekends and I have to tow my fishing boat, EV is not an option to me right now unfortunately...
How heavy is your fishing boat? And how far do you have to tow it?
@@MarekDrivesENG not so heavy, around 400kg with outboard engine and trailer... Usually I do around 200km round trip a day, but there are days when I'm going to a couple lakes per day and it's around 300km. I don't find much information on how EVs perform with a towing but I guess around -30% of a range. I'm not a slow driver if it's legal I'm going 120km/h while I'm towing. And like all nature lovers I'm going to places far away from civilization. To stop at chargers I would have to disconnect the boat trailer, pull it in the parking lot and then drive to charge and after charge reconnect trailer again.
I'm a 2 x diesel owner, but an EV using as much power as a whole village is just a stupid statement isn't it?
Right now the answer has to be no, I’m afraid.
I thank yes, by the way all overs after me are second. 😜
😁
I drive an MG4 in the UK. Home charging costs me approximately £6 for 280 miles with Octopus Intelligent Go. No brainier for me an EV is the better option for me over an ICE car. Cheaper to own and better to drive. I also have solar panels so charge for free in the summer.
How's your energy consumption during the winter? It's +5 here in Poland, and my test MG4 is getting 2.4 miles/kWh. Not brilliant.
@@MarekDrivesENG Hi - Like you not great around 2.8 in the winter compared with 3.9 in the summer. So costs a little more to charge in the winter but at 7.5p/Kwhr it’s not that expensive.
There's a credibility gap, vast majority of the PRO are EV owners who have owned gas cars, the CON from those who've never driven an EV
Reading the comments here I see there's a fair share of those, who switched back to ICE (or PHEV) or who simply recognise the shortcomings of both powertrains in different applications.
One viewer lives in a small country, where he rarely gets to drive further than 250 km. When I tried to go 600 in one day with planned AC and DC charging, things went south.
th-cam.com/video/sMOvGnkFzug/w-d-xo.html
It's possible, I don't know any people that have switched back. I don't understand why people enjoy buying gas I hated it
The engine in EVs is clearly superior, plenty of and immediate torques, but in every other aspect EVs are worse.
I would lease an EV for 2-3 years to see whether it makes sense. Too many risks to own one,.
In The Netherlands I saw twelve years ago that one could supposedly charge easy and often for free.
But, it didn't work out that way, not then not now. Charging at home can be expensive if your provider has surprises. Charging from home can also be a jungle. I do not expect electric cars have a future with all maintenance issues and expensive charging it will mainly be for lease audience. There is much more to say about this. 😁🤸
To start great fires yes…
Remote Combustion Engine
EV's are very convient mobility platform only for people that have a wallbox and can charge their car during the night. For all others ICE cars are far better option.
Controversial subject ? Educate yourself before deciding but due to much misinfornation on the net best is to speak to actual ev or phev owners first!
You'll love this:
th-cam.com/video/nZysvgm2_Aw/w-d-xo.html
Yes it is worth it.
For me no EV ever.
In short, NO. It is not worth.
No.
In a word no.
Elaborate please.
@@MarekDrivesENG EV`s were sold to the world as being less polluting, taking into account how electricity is produced and the lower life cycle of these vehicles studies show that it is not true. We were told that EV`s would be cheaper to run, however, the experience of owners differs with higher than expected public charging costs, maintenance costs, breakdowns and long repair times. Repairs following even in minor accidents are more expensive and any damage to battery packs is resulting in cars being scrapped. This combined with regular battery fires is also dramatically increasing insurance costs making EV`s unaffordable for some. Travelling long distances is more inconvenient and stressful having to plan recharging stops. The recharging infrastructure is not good enough and will take billions and decades to be so. EV`s cost 30- 40% more to purchase than the equivalent ICE vehicles and then suffer with much higher depreciation falls. Many governments are scrapping EV tax subsidies which made them seem cheaper than what they really are. EV`s simply do not do the job better or cheaper than ICE vehicles, so in my view are not good enough for me to consider purchasing one.