I use Emacs since 1986 or even earlier... I can't really remember. The main advantage of Emacs is that it actually is built on top of a bunch of code which you, as an user, can extend and bring your own solutions for your own needs. The main disadvantage is your temptation to invent your own "distribution of Emacs", putting together your own combination of modules and keybindings. You may invest several months of your life tweaking your own invention, until you finally surrender to someone else's invention, like DoomEmacs, for example. In any case, once in Emacs ecosystem, chances are you will never leave it. I guess probably the same applies to Vim.
Its literally the exact same story in vim lmao we even have vim distributions like nvchad or astronvim or kickstartvim or lazyvim etc... probably the only difference between vim and emacs is modal editing and the languages used to extend the editor
I remember the day when I first met Emacs. We were obliged to use it in a LISP class in Uni. Before that I used some Borland C compiler's editor on an Atari and before that C64's BASIC interpreter to edit lines with numbers. It was utterly ridiculous. The question "how the hell do I get out of here" occurred after only a minute of trying to use it. I remember how I wanted to be the winner, not loosing to a stupid piece of software, so I learned to tame the beast. Then I learned to like it. Then I was surprise about what this crazy thing can do. Then I read the documentation and was amazed how well it was documented. I never really learned to use LISP, not that one taught at Uni, not ELisp either. I wrote my own LISP interpreter though, for a client, but I never used it. It's a very strange kind of love I have for Emacs. I'm now using Doom and Vi keybindings. I never grew the balls to even try to make my own configuration at the level at which doom operates. I'm just using it. Mostly for org mode. But I keep thinking about recreating org mode outside of Emacs world. It's too hacky and too insulated where it is. Looking back over the decades, I'm pretty certain that no other piece of software helped me as much as Emacs and org mode. I certainly did not enjoy anything as much as the pair, maybe except for the concept of UNIX living on in Linux and the BSD's.
@@michaelutech4786 as an org mode user, can you give me a quick review of neorg in neovim. See if its up to standard. Cause I've been using neorg for a while but never used emacs.
@@foresthobo1166 ohh, just quit it 😂 But whatever the public opinion is, once you start to use Nvim or vim( I didn't use vim, only nano when I was still a noob in c and Nvim when I am still a noob in c/c++, java etc) you feel the difference of Nvim and other IDEs. But you can use what fits you best... But give Nvim a shot
I was still in highschool when I started using Vim, mainly for quickly editing config files in shell. Halfway through the university I found myself in need to typeset documentation of a semestral project in latex and I was big into software minimalism and avoiding bloat so I said to myself, why not edit this in Vim. On this project my skills with Vim improved tremendously and realized that I might as well start coding with it. And that's it 6 years later, now full time software engineer mainly coding in C++, I use purely neovim with coc for software development. Wouldn't trade it for anything, I keep loving the experience.
I recommend nvim lsp? I used coc 8 years ago, and i can tell nvim lsp is more mature and boost your productivity. Check out lazyvim if you want a customizable preset.
Today I discovered 'syn case ignore' for some of my syntax files. Ten years ago, I discovered rectangular block select mode in vim. Twenty years ago, I discovered diff editing in vim. Thirty years ago, I began using vim as my primary editor. Thank you Bram, stuff of legends.
As a UNI guy, it sounds to me like you were conflating much of what is a attributable to VI to VIM. The editor religious wars were about VI versus eMacs. It just turned out that 20 years after the wars started vim was the most common version of “VI“ that was in use by developers. This reminds me much of what happens when Lennox users talk about shell scripting as “bash”. It is vexing and unsettling.
I too thought the video was vexing because of the noisy visual language, but I can't help but wonder what UNI and Lennox are... But otherwise yes, this video is basically glamorizing Vim, and even though Vim is my favorite text editor this video still managed to tick me off.
It's kind of crazy that I've already been using Vim for so long that I'm now using a ton of features that didn't exist when I started using it. And yeah, I even used it on Win98 and now I compile it from source on Linux every time I update. For some reason, not a single repository version enables all the features I use.
As new user I feel NeoVim is where it is happening. I really didn't like Vim-script when tried Vim 15 years ago. NeoVim using Lua for configuration inspired me to learn it (thank you AI) and take the configurations beyond what I could have imagined... basically building my dream IDE integrating all things I need and discovering things like Telescope. (Linux user)
With LSP (Language Server Protocol) and BSP (Build Server Protocol) virtually every decent text editor supporting LSP and BSP can be used effectively to write programs. I don't see need for IDEs when your preferred text editor is as capable as your preferred IDE. Or better yet: far more capable as any IDE.
Software engineer here, vim is irrelevant today, utterly pointless if you’re not writing small scripts in your daily life. Software engineering changed massively today, it’s not only editing text and debugging it, it’s also profiling it, watch your database, maintain different connections in distributed systems and much more which vim cannot help with. Tbh idk why use vim if you’re going to compensate with external tools, jet brains made software engineering feel like engineering and not playing with a tool and figuring out why this tool prevents you from working further to the project. I am going to get bunch of hate for this comment, but let me assure you most of them use a modern IDE for work and VIM for small scripts and not important projects.
@@xpusostomos forget emacs keys. you can have any binding but that imo, defeats any purpose of vim. cause that is the only difference between vim and emacs. its that one has modal editing, the other does not
@@xpusostomos emacs is an amazing os with everything.... emacs has everything except.... A fast and good text editor....... Also emac's vim keys aren't perfect
@xpusostomos emacs is an amazing os with everything.... Everything except a decent text editor... Jokes aside, vim has its own ecosystem of extensions and stuff. Also emac's vim mode is not a complete copy of vim.
I don't get it, what's the point of modal editing when we have control keys? So in normal mode vi i can search with /... But in Emacs i can search with C-s, one key either way, but no mode needed. Same with every Emacs feature, there's a key for that, no mode needed. Modes in general in computing are evil. That's why the caps lock key is hated.
This story is good and learn how it made. We are use to GUI desktop but in working in terminal is harder since GUI can't be used. Well there are few reason one is server only use terminal it just a guess since most are using Linux distro OS.
It's funny how this video tries to "explain" the success of Vim but every explanation is an argument why Vim should not have been successful because the feature arguing was that of an existing editor. I always used vi for editing system files (where people are now told to use nano) and emacs as an editor for programming. I used many IDE's for decades for serious programming (the kind that gets paid). My personal take is that all of these tools are successful either because they do what their users want them to, or they make their users work in certain ways and eventually make the users agree - often by means of peer pressure. Vim is a terrible IDE, despite of all the efforts to create plausible deniability for the fact it wants to be one. But it's a great editor. But whatever it really is technically, it's ever better at being food for opinion leaders. Emacs is not all that different. But it has org mode and its users are in for the long game (academica). So it looks and feels different. When Vim is the pentagon, Emacs is the collosseum - in terms of esthetics. In terms of power it's probably the other way around. I'm quite happy that Emacs and Vi are still around. I could live with VSCode or IntelliJ, but I would miss Emacs and NVim.
You sound like a coach talking, like if it was something made by one single person. Every open source project is a colective work. Geniuses dont make software alone, they make software alongside other people, and other geniuses.
Thank you Convex.dev for Sponsoring this video, Check them out at codesource.io/convex
I watched this video but now it's looping and I don't know how to quit it.
I use Emacs since 1986 or even earlier... I can't really remember.
The main advantage of Emacs is that it actually is built on top of a bunch of code which you, as an user, can extend and bring your own solutions for your own needs.
The main disadvantage is your temptation to invent your own "distribution of Emacs", putting together your own combination of modules and keybindings.
You may invest several months of your life tweaking your own invention, until you finally surrender to someone else's invention, like DoomEmacs, for example.
In any case, once in Emacs ecosystem, chances are you will never leave it. I guess probably the same applies to Vim.
Its literally the exact same story in vim lmao
we even have vim distributions like nvchad or astronvim or kickstartvim or lazyvim etc...
probably the only difference between vim and emacs is modal editing and the languages used to extend the editor
I remember the day when I first met Emacs. We were obliged to use it in a LISP class in Uni. Before that I used some Borland C compiler's editor on an Atari and before that C64's BASIC interpreter to edit lines with numbers.
It was utterly ridiculous. The question "how the hell do I get out of here" occurred after only a minute of trying to use it. I remember how I wanted to be the winner, not loosing to a stupid piece of software, so I learned to tame the beast. Then I learned to like it. Then I was surprise about what this crazy thing can do. Then I read the documentation and was amazed how well it was documented.
I never really learned to use LISP, not that one taught at Uni, not ELisp either. I wrote my own LISP interpreter though, for a client, but I never used it. It's a very strange kind of love I have for Emacs. I'm now using Doom and Vi keybindings. I never grew the balls to even try to make my own configuration at the level at which doom operates. I'm just using it. Mostly for org mode. But I keep thinking about recreating org mode outside of Emacs world. It's too hacky and too insulated where it is.
Looking back over the decades, I'm pretty certain that no other piece of software helped me as much as Emacs and org mode. I certainly did not enjoy anything as much as the pair, maybe except for the concept of UNIX living on in Linux and the BSD's.
@@michaelutech4786 as an org mode user, can you give me a quick review of neorg in neovim. See if its up to standard. Cause I've been using neorg for a while but never used emacs.
@@RenderingUser I guess Vim's modal editing is Emacs' multiple cursors. I use that a lot and it's a big time saver.
Vim: The best text editor... for those who know how to quit it. 😏
Yeah, you're right kid, good job
:q!
@@foresthobo1166 ohh, just quit it 😂
But whatever the public opinion is, once you start to use Nvim or vim( I didn't use vim, only nano when I was still a noob in c and Nvim when I am still a noob in c/c++, java etc) you feel the difference of Nvim and other IDEs. But you can use what fits you best... But give Nvim a shot
...lightweight and powerful text editor... what else can a developer need?
ZZemacs is how you quit
I was still in highschool when I started using Vim, mainly for quickly editing config files in shell. Halfway through the university I found myself in need to typeset documentation of a semestral project in latex and I was big into software minimalism and avoiding bloat so I said to myself, why not edit this in Vim. On this project my skills with Vim improved tremendously and realized that I might as well start coding with it. And that's it 6 years later, now full time software engineer mainly coding in C++, I use purely neovim with coc for software development. Wouldn't trade it for anything, I keep loving the experience.
I recommend nvim lsp? I used coc 8 years ago, and i can tell nvim lsp is more mature and boost your productivity. Check out lazyvim if you want a customizable preset.
using vim/neovim since 2020. what an amazing text editor it is.
Everyone knows that ed is the standard editor!
I once had a boss who'd come to my terminal and start programming in ed
Today I discovered 'syn case ignore' for some of my syntax files.
Ten years ago, I discovered rectangular block select mode in vim.
Twenty years ago, I discovered diff editing in vim.
Thirty years ago, I began using vim as my primary editor.
Thank you Bram, stuff of legends.
Awesome video! The editing, pacing, and information are all really well done and obviously done with a lot of thought. Keep doing what you do
Thank you, I appreciate your kind words!
As a UNI guy, it sounds to me like you were conflating much of what is a attributable to VI to VIM. The editor religious wars were about VI versus eMacs. It just turned out that 20 years after the wars started vim was the most common version of “VI“ that was in use by developers. This reminds me much of what happens when Lennox users talk about shell scripting as “bash”. It is vexing and unsettling.
I too thought the video was vexing because of the noisy visual language, but I can't help but wonder what UNI and Lennox are... But otherwise yes, this video is basically glamorizing Vim, and even though Vim is my favorite text editor this video still managed to tick me off.
@@niuniujunwashere lol I guess that’s what I get for. Not double checking the voice dictation. 😂
@@niuniujunwashere I am trying story telling, its like a mini movie on vim, not a tutorial on how to use it..
It's Emacs, not eMacs. It has nothing to do with Apple or Steve Jobs.
@ did I mention that I used voice dictation and didn’t double check it?
It's kind of crazy that I've already been using Vim for so long that I'm now using a ton of features that didn't exist when I started using it. And yeah, I even used it on Win98 and now I compile it from source on Linux every time I update. For some reason, not a single repository version enables all the features I use.
Glad to see your subscribers count get higher and higher. Congrats 🎉
Thank you for the support!
As new user I feel NeoVim is where it is happening. I really didn't like Vim-script when tried Vim 15 years ago. NeoVim using Lua for configuration inspired me to learn it (thank you AI) and take the configurations beyond what I could have imagined... basically building my dream IDE integrating all things I need and discovering things like Telescope. (Linux user)
Modal editing: That's why IntelliJ, VS-Code and Eclipse are so popular
With LSP (Language Server Protocol) and BSP (Build Server Protocol) virtually every decent text editor supporting LSP and BSP can be used effectively to write programs.
I don't see need for IDEs when your preferred text editor is as capable as your preferred IDE. Or better yet: far more capable as any IDE.
Because they're not modal right?
I’ve been using vim for years, it’s great. I might try another editor though when I figure out how to exit.
I didn't know that Vim could do so many things
Vim is Awesome
Emacs is my main squeeze!
I am glad that now I have a video to send frieds about amazing Vim history.
Spread the word!
I've used Vim on everything from the Amiga, Atari, OSX, lots of Unix and Windows for all things since 2006.
Sorry to hear of Bram's death.
Software engineer here, vim is irrelevant today, utterly pointless if you’re not writing small scripts in your daily life. Software engineering changed massively today, it’s not only editing text and debugging it, it’s also profiling it, watch your database, maintain different connections in distributed systems and much more which vim cannot help with. Tbh idk why use vim if you’re going to compensate with external tools, jet brains made software engineering feel like engineering and not playing with a tool and figuring out why this tool prevents you from working further to the project. I am going to get bunch of hate for this comment, but let me assure you most of them use a modern IDE for work and VIM for small scripts and not important projects.
vim mentioned! primeagen reaction video incoming!
Won? What competition? Who’s the enemy? Was there even a battle? Why???
Tabs.. did you mean buffers, windows and tabs.. they are interconnected and tabs are different to tabs in all other programs out there
Try Neovim. You can build it into an IDE.
Can you add Emacs key bindings?
@@xpusostomos forget emacs keys. you can have any binding
but that imo, defeats any purpose of vim. cause that is the only difference between vim and emacs. its that one has modal editing, the other does not
@@RenderingUser really, the only difference.... But Emacs has vi key bindings, so that means neovim has no reason for being
@@xpusostomos emacs is an amazing os with everything.... emacs has everything except.... A fast and good text editor.......
Also emac's vim keys aren't perfect
@xpusostomos emacs is an amazing os with everything.... Everything except a decent text editor...
Jokes aside, vim has its own ecosystem of extensions and stuff. Also emac's vim mode is not a complete copy of vim.
Vim, Emacs, and VSCode are three major paradigms of expandible text editors, but what else could exist?
VimacSCode.The Frankenstein editor. :-)
Zed editor
Beautifully animated! I'm gonna use this video to introduce people to Vim, who have never heard of it and why it still matters.
I don't get it, what's the point of modal editing when we have control keys? So in normal mode vi i can search with /... But in Emacs i can search with C-s, one key either way, but no mode needed. Same with every Emacs feature, there's a key for that, no mode needed. Modes in general in computing are evil. That's why the caps lock key is hated.
"Won" is a debatable term.
We need an emacs story
Thank you for doing this video CodeSource. Subscribed. Can You make similar videos for FreeCAD, KiCAD and GNU/Linux?
Use vim for a years, just because i can't quit from vim😊
Vi imitation? It is Vi iMproved!
This story is good and learn how it made. We are use to GUI desktop but in working in terminal is harder since GUI can't be used. Well there are few reason one is server only use terminal it just a guess since most are using Linux distro OS.
Vim hasn't won, you are delusional.
M-x evil
Blasphemy
It's funny how this video tries to "explain" the success of Vim but every explanation is an argument why Vim should not have been successful because the feature arguing was that of an existing editor.
I always used vi for editing system files (where people are now told to use nano) and emacs as an editor for programming. I used many IDE's for decades for serious programming (the kind that gets paid).
My personal take is that all of these tools are successful either because they do what their users want them to, or they make their users work in certain ways and eventually make the users agree - often by means of peer pressure.
Vim is a terrible IDE, despite of all the efforts to create plausible deniability for the fact it wants to be one. But it's a great editor. But whatever it really is technically, it's ever better at being food for opinion leaders. Emacs is not all that different. But it has org mode and its users are in for the long game (academica). So it looks and feels different. When Vim is the pentagon, Emacs is the collosseum - in terms of esthetics. In terms of power it's probably the other way around.
I'm quite happy that Emacs and Vi are still around. I could live with VSCode or IntelliJ, but I would miss Emacs and NVim.
This story was not "untold".
Honest feedback, there is too much editing in this video. Every second there is motion which makes it jarring to look at the video.
this narrator of this video keeps talking about "speed and efficiency" i am starting to think that i am watching an advanced kind of brainrot
Great Content bro, Keep up the good work
You sound like a coach talking, like if it was something made by one single person. Every open source project is a colective work. Geniuses dont make software alone, they make software alongside other people, and other geniuses.
Cue several quit jokes. 🙄
What does
/code/
?
mean?
But we can all agree vim script is bad
🔥
nano
It didn't
ed..
Help , I can't quit it
You are new here? I have stucked there for years.
just type :q! homie
ZZemacs
dislike for using ai generated images
Why?
Vim is an emotion. Dislike if you believe this.
Rage?