1273 Inside A Moble Phone Battery
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2021
- If you want to have a look at those special videos become a member and join by clicking this link / @thinkingandtinkering
Don't forget that you can buy my books and materials for your own experiments including our conductive inks at secure.workingink.co.uk/worki... - and for the many who have asked, yes, you can also donate to further our work, again through the shop. - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Let’s take a moment to understand and appreciate what’s going on here.
This is NOT a guy reading a script like a lot do on TH-cam. It’s a gentleman understanding the topic on deep level and sharing it on a public platform. That’s not an easy thing to do.
I’m consciously incompetent when it comes to this topic but I’m thankful for your teaching abilities. 🙏 😀
(Wish I could join the live streams again, but with time zone barriers, I’ll just need to be happy with the Twitch VOD (Video on demand) ☺️
Robert, your videos should be part of the national curriculum.
I have 5 children, aged between 10 and 18, the oldest has just started a degree - and all of them are capable of understanding the majority, if not all, of what you teach.
Please keep producing your fantastic videos.
This is by far one of my favorite videos of yours I have watched lately. Thanks for all this awesome information and explanations.
Awesome, thank you!
Thanks Robert, it was informative.
My brain is fully charged with all the relevant info now. Good one Robert
I love the squinting health and safety face as you say its discharged and cut into it. Much like my angle grinder face lol 🤣🤣🤣
As TH-camr AvE says: "Engage Safety Squints".
Thank you for this great info Rob! Cheers :)
Outstanding explanation and demonstration!
I'll be saving this link for use as a primer whenever someone starts asking me about Lithium cells.
Thank you.
Unrolling that battery reminded me of an electrolytic capacitor, very similar. Loved the video, some information that everyone should know before playing with lithium batteries.
That was really well presented and interesting. Thanks Rob. 👍
Great overview Rob. If you're going to build a large block like that it and you have time to, it might be an idea to bin all of the cells based on capacity. You then make sure the total capacity per 3.7V block adds up closely to the same capacity.
Another thing: You mentioned LiFePO4 is not as long lasting. I think you were meaning the specific capacity. They're actually a lot more tolerant to cycling, with expected cycle life in the multiple thousands of times instead of the few hundreds for Lithium ion.
glad you liked it mate and similar capacity was certainly the plan. To be honest the various flavours of lithium ion represent just quirks to me and all the various types are much of a muchness - but you are dead right in what you say - cheers
Nice overview! This cleared up a lot of things for me! Thanks.
Thanks Rob, 👍
Very informative and interesting The battery you dismantled was a Li ion I use a lot of LiPo batterys in model helicopters mainly due to their better power to weight ratio is there a big difference in the make up or is it just different materials
A suggestion with your battery pack being under a small amount of pressure. Would interleaving aluminium plates of a slightly larger size (so they stick out like fins into the air gap) act as a heatsink to help with the heat problem but still keep pressure on the individual batterys
I'm not sure for all variations but these batteries keep cool when in good shape. The heating problem only is due to batteries in bad shape. In such a case charging should be halted. Sinking heat is possible but serves no purpose. Charging should stop.
Those packs, line them up and paint one side red before you start the work ...it will happen :)
Great job Rob, very comprehensive, your deep knowledge of this subject shines through!
You could follow up with series packs and balancing.
Really, great info, thanks very much! 👏
It would also be great to have more info on battery recycling, if you fancy.
Thank you so much for your relayed expertise. You are a great man!
I hate when I miss your videos. I have to play catch up again. Your explanations are so easy to understand. I have to look up some words. LOL 🤣
When I’m not building , fixing , joking , it’s fun to warp peoples minds with logic
Imagine if you made a short film with just the intro bit. This is big, this is little and this is round. Lol
Outstanding lecture. 👍👍👍
I have brought back Lipo 18650 batteries from 0 Volt. But very slowly. You should have a look at Stuart Pittaway BMS project Rob, he is English too. Nice guy. This one was gold mate, very well put together.
thank you mate and I will look up your suggestion
So great to get accurate info
Thank you sir
That was on of the best rumble.
19:30 I don't know if I'm impressed that a teacup can release steam for 20 minutes before you take a sip, or if I'm upset that you let your tea cool for 20 minutes before drinking it.
A good explanation ..... as is usual with you! ;o)
You mean REALLY flammable!
A chum of mine burned his garage down while charging the lithium battery for his r/c race car.
After building a new garage, he also built a box out of firebrick to charge the batteries.
If you were to place a small sheet of aluminum (or something thermally conductive) between each cell, so that it stick out a few cm on the sides, it could act as a heat sink to take the heat away from the center of the "blocks" of cells. I see people suggest glass for this sometimes, as its not electrically conductive but decently thermally conductive and can withstand the pressure from a bit of compression. Using a conductive metal is maybe not the best idea for a heat sink layer lol
SMART BMS also balances your cells by switching on a resistors, to drain your high voltage cells till they match your lower voltage groups, so voltage level is equal for each cell group.
Smart BMS are very nice because you can see and adjust every perameter this is good insurance for an expensive investment 🙂 when building battery packs matching cells (internal resistance) and Capacity tobe equally important aswell for healthy working device.
Great video, very educational!
Glad you enjoyed it
Excellent video, as usual.
Regarding the "bad cell in a pack" issue, isn't it possible to make a small (and cheap:) circuit for each cell which compares it to neighboring cells and disconnects it from the pack if it's lower than all/most of them by a predetermined value?
We would most likely embed these circuits in the pack, and make the cells removable/replaceable.
While such circuits only need very few low power components, they still waste some of the battery's stored energy, so it may not be worthwhile... on the other hand, when a cell is disconnected, its location can be detected immediately by a single monitoring circuit, and that means easier maintenance and reduced downtime.
Good information there well done. You've done what I've always wanted to but weren't sure and that's take one apart lol . I've always been dubious of lithium batteries because I've seen first hand the carnage of one shorting. One of my customers is a wood waste to energy plant and they have had 2 massive fires in as many years, the last one destroyed a 2 week old , quarter million pounds shredding machine due to a lithium battery getting shredded in it .
Interesting. I would love to see a breakdown of a hydrogen fuel cell and hear your thoughts on building one if you ever come across a scrapped one.
Greetings from Whitstable 👋
I’m not well educated n science, but wanted you to know that I found this video extremely interesting. Thank you.
oh i didnt know about the 'galley' for IP construction, interesting, im thinking get Luke to scrape the bad one's, make a new recycled wet paste, then for convenience use a generic cheap 'till roll' -still dont know what heat reactive 'ink' chemical is in those- to make a longer corrugated roll battery ....
for fun i guess you could also do a so called 'dry cell' -with wetter flowable paste- hydrogen dry cell style with ink as the other carrier in this case.
obviously taking more space but a good poc for diy bigger A4 ream scored felt/paper channels etc.
Excellent synopsis of lithium cell batteries - at least the materials can be recycled easily - most of the battery packs made from 18650 only fail from one cell going short - a comparator / balancer system is a good idea but only seems to be adopted for big banks not small capacity cell arrangement like in power tools from the last decade.
Your tea/coffee is steaming more than the batteries :)
Paint the batteries with graphene ink to help heat releasing..
Thanks
Robert, have you ever made a lithium cell? I know the conditions and environment required need to be clean/air tight(Probably a glove box required). I think it could make for an interesting video as I don't think a lithium battery has ever been made by a TH-camr. Could be a first! I'm sure with your carbon expertise you might be able to come up with something new! Lithium/super cap hybrid?!
Hard to believe , but the best food is on the outer ring of the grocery store !
I think build quality is a big factor.
The batteries I tend do deal with are nintendo,
playstation portable and controllers.
The original nintendo batteries rarely ever die.
the sony batteries I get a lot of failures
I don't deal with many phones, but I would expect that the samsung batteries are of great quality.
Heads up for BMS/controller per cell group and putting them in series! Most BMS are NOT made for this. if you have the wrong BMS and put multiple BMSs in series, you can end up with massive short circuits. Because:
The mosfets in the BMS (switch that turns off when something wrong with charging/load) are rated for a x voltage. By putting more BMSs in series the total voltage increases. If 1 BMS trips, it need to withstand the voltage of the whole pack. Most BMS match theirs with the voltage rating. An 5v bms doesn't get a more expensive 100v mosfet (if a 10v one will do fine).
Personal experience : Daly bms (china) are great BMSs but use for 10s setups(42v max) 60v mosfets. by putting 2 in series, 1 mosfet needed to withstand 82v. Lest just say it didn't and i needed replace all the balance wires and the bms....
Also manufacturers will measure the mAh of each individual battery and group them together in the same block the ones with similar capacity, to prevent excessive overcharging.
yes they will
😁 Brilliant information thanks 💯 💡
Awesome Thank you for this great, comprehensive explanation, would it be possible to scrape off/remove the lithium and graphite from the unravelled battery and re-coat it/re-electrolyte it with other battery chemistries? zinc etc (then re-seal battery package?)
Very informative Rob :-)
I just wondered why the 2 current collectors are made of two different metals if they play no part in the reaction.
It would be cheaper to use Al rather than Cu, so i guess there is a reason ?
Hello Robert , Merry Christmas
I learnt more from this 23,5 minute video than I learnt about the topic going to el trade school. Thanks ! :D
I love my old Nokia phones. They never die ! How come the old original NiCad batteries gave more standby time between charges than same Ah lithium replacements?
Brilliant video Rob. Why cant use the individual managment circuits already on each battery?
not all - but some can be specific to the phone and will only recharge in the phone - I was wanting to give a general guide - so with those that can recharge in a 'normal' charger then go right ahead and reuse the BMS boards supplied with the battery - for those that don't, you are going to have to remove them
Great info, aways wanted to know the lithium battery ingredients, so simple now i know why china want all of our waste copper ehh😉. clever bunch.
It seems as if having the gaps between cylindrical batteries, while providing for cooling, might also make for more circulation of air in the case of a filre. Might it not be better in both battery pack desigs to have the controller perform some active cooling, eg using a Peltier devce? Rather than just checking temperature, the controller could also cool off battery groups during discharge.
@Dave Kenny
That's a great idea!!
I bet you get the "Make it and put a Video On the TH-cam" answer from some smart-ass like me, Lol!! 😁
I hope all is well with you and yours!
Kindest Regards,
Andrea, Jasper and George the Pigeon. XxX💞 🙋♀️🦮🕊️💞XxX.
With regards to the heat in the block, what if you were to have an aluminum pkate in the middle of the block with a heat sink attached to the plate on the long sides of the block. The heat sink could also function as the means to attach the pressure plate to either side of the block or whichever mode you use to apply the pressure to get more power out and keep from delaminating.
I have a bunch of 2s and 3s hobby grade lipos from my RCs that i have been thinking about banking together into a big pack to power an electric bicycle. Do you think this is feasible? The lipos are all 4000 mah packs.
Couldn't you leave the original battery management circuit on them? Or does it function differently?
the chinese 18650s have a charging chip built into them but also makes them to big to fit in.devices that take a standard 18650
Looking like blackouts are on the way. could you use a 36v e bike battery for USB or LED lighting.
Thanks Rob,
Could you do a demo and explain how thermal runaway happens?
sure
It would be interesting if the way to cool the pouches was to use a material that generates a charge to power the system 🤔
Completely autonomous 😎
I'm loving your videos and keen to try building a battery. Is the separator in the lithium ion battery an ion exchange membrane? Could it be used as such in a ZnBr battery if the lithium electrolyte was washed off?
You could use the BMS that's attached to your cell phone batteries as they're already attached couldn't you?
Can you recover the graphite and make an ink with it?
Where's the magic smoke?
Presumably the layer behind the copper, seen at about the 5 minute mark, is an insulator?
I'm surprised you didn't show the reaction that happens when you put a little water on the lithium compound
that's because nothing happens - well it gets wet - but there is no violent reaction - in lithium ion batteries the compound is an oxide - it's already 'burnt' so to speak - if you put lithium in water - well that's a different story.
Rob just watched the wind wall failure part two thought you might be sble to cut abs or pvc pipe to create a savonios one piece wind mill connected to lazy susanbase and belt drive just a thought
Will there be a build video on making the 10 used cell phone battery cellblocks? :D
absolutely
Once the galleries collapse would chemically exfoliating the Lithium recover the charge capacity by restoring the galleries?
If that could be done then that could be a lucrative process I feel.
your pack did not ignite did it ?
Have replaced my lead acid with LiFePO batteries and the difference is huge. The thing that surprised me the most is for the same wattage solar array they seem to accept a much higher amperage. I'm assuming it's to do with the internal resistance of the battery. Any thoughts on this?
Each cell in parallel in each block adds to the charging rate, eg 1 LiFePO4 can take 3.2v at 2A, so 5 in parallel will take 10A. They charge much faster than lead acid, which is why I'm currently building a 2kwh battery for my boat to replace 4kwh of "deep cycle" batteries - I'll be glad to see the back of them. I might even leave them at the boat club for somebody stuck in their old ways... they do work, but charge soooo slowly! It's only for the domestic side so it will be kept indoors, I can't imagine putting a lithium battery in (or near!) the bilge!
Hello Robert!
A question for you: Can I mix old 18560 with different mAh left to make a big battery? Some of them have 1300mAh left, some have 2200 left. If possible, should I group similar mAh together and put a controller on them? For example: 10 18560 with somewhere between 1300 and 1600mAh; 10 18560 with 1700 to 2000mAh and so on. Will the lowest bunch of 10 batteries dictate the charge for all other 10packs or will every 10pack maximize to the lowest in that pack? And also, how far apart in capacity can every single 18560 in mAh in a 10pack be? I know they should be "roughly the same", but what is that in numbers? 100mAh, 200mAh or 300mAh or only 10mAh?
Thank you for great infotainment 👍🏾/ Christian from Sweden
Sir, are you interested in flyback transformer high voltage circuits, homemade circuits?
Hi Rob - any chance you could investigate and comment on the recent developments regarding Lithium Sulfur batteries with added Sugar? (yes, sugar, for those unaware...).
sure mate
Or in the center of the Farm !
Lithium iron phosphate batteries can last 5 times longer than most lithium types. Not less.
Why don't they just roll the same 6 batteries in a square block form, then you can have a bms for each at the same cost?
Hey anything on that zeolite air-conditioning
ordered the zeolite - it takes awhile to arrive!
Quality
question = any chance at re-using re-making the battery from the old battery ? >> could you take each black part and dissolve them separately, then restore it + subsequently re-plate ?? From what I see, the only magic is in this lithium laying theory ... but I also thought u couldn't take these apart without something spectacular happening !!! U completely de-mystified this !!! Wow !!
Fun fact >> years ago when the energizer lithium AA's first came to market I took them apart. I remember the stuff on the roll quickly turning white !! Then of course as kids do >> many pieces went in water to watch funny bubbles !! That is all I remember. I specifically remember that it did not look repairable caz of the quick oxidization in ambient air. ((Yeah, when I was a kid I used to take apart batteries just to re-assemble them in a different case/ different configuration. ))
The short answer is yes - but it would take a bit of doing - however it is possible
Do you know any place that makes batteries from used EV batteries? Surely the entire pack isn't dead. Just like all the packs I've seen it's only one or two cells that are dead. Or someone that sells good sections of used EV batteries.
Diy power wall. We do this all the time.
👍👍👍
It seems so overly complicated for a battery solution
What ever you do do not fully charge an 18650 and then cut it in half with an ax epicly bad idea
😁⚡✨💫😳🤯
Yep, I wish you'd been there to warn my Hubby about that, last week. Lol! 🤔😅. XxX
@@AndreaDingbatt over grown boys like us only learn one way lol
@@GREATLORDPOOH Lol! Yup, I often wonder how so many Actually make it to Adulthood?!! Lol!!
My Hubby's a fantastic musician, and I guess that makes up for certain deficiencies on common sense!! 😁💞
I do worry about him sometimes,, like when he changes light bulbs.....
I hope you are having a great week,
Kindest Regards,
Andrea, Jasper and George the Pigeon. XxX
Optima battery rep. Says ? Your batteries must be on a trickle charger when the motor isn’t running ,or you voided your warranty ! WTDF !
😍
Title: "moble"
I see, so Nissan Leaf chooses battery pack with flat batteries because they can put battery management system (BMS) in each of the batteries instead of 12 cylinders pack like Tesla, I wonder if Nissan decided with that level of safety just because the battery is like half the price of the car, ...but then now I can say that flat batteries pack is safer, and also more expensive, yes I know there are flat batteries that explode, but then there are way too many people with mobile phone that didn't explode
most of this stuff just comes down to cost and actuarial risk you know?
Thank you so much Robert, I will be remembering all this, when I catch up with "Friend" who I lent my E-bike to...
I am out of hospital, and had to really chase down the "Friend" to get my E-bike back....
And, I have noticed that there has been some issues with the battery, and I can't remove it now with the key,,,
and there appear to be some *Changes* to the battery life and other bits and pieces of it altogether.
I am of the opinion that he has sold /swapped /given, my almost New Battery to someone else,
so I am going to go and Knock my "Friend" over the head with something like a mallet,,, because I have just seen the price of a New battery for it!! 😳🤬
Kindest Regards,
Andrea, Jasper and George the (evil) Pigeon. XxX.
I am glad you are out of hospital - myself I never lend something I am not prepared to give away - because your 'friends' behaviour is exactly what I expect!
@@ThinkingandTinkering Thank you, and I appreciate your honesty.
I'm not much of a materialist, but the E-bike well it was a fun way to get about.
And, despite that, the E-bike was, a way to get about, without people seeing me and treating me as *disabled* and also provided me with some exercise....
Lesson learned!!
I guess that I am angrier at myself, more than the Ex-friend.
Kindest Regards,
Andrea, Jasper and George the Pigeon. XxX
👍👍💖🙏💖👍👍
aha .. it's a high voltage version. 4.4V ...
Some remarks : The little circuit inside the battery is not really part of the battery management system but rather a protection circuit. It will prevent undervoltage, overvoltage, overtemperature and overcurrent. A typical device would be ti's BQ2980 for example. It's kind of a last resort when things go wrong. For some parameters it's a backup system, if the charger is broke and delivers too high voltage the protecion circuit will prevent catastrophy. When the load has a short the protection circuit will prevent overcurrent. I think these circuits are mandatory if you want to ship your product by cargo plane for example. Special regulations exist.
If you have batteries in series usually there's a charger that has balancing to correct for small battery differences. Since you have used batteries it's relevant in you case.
I'm not sure how the poststamp boards are going to do in your situation. Usually there is a switching charger used for packs. If not it's fine, but losses in the charger are big.
Charging does not stop at 4.4V. The voltage iis limited at that by charger. When the current drops under a certain value the charger stops. So there is a constant current and a constant voltage stage when charging.
Anyway, excellent video. Really helpful to understand the basic principles. These batteries are so simple. I wonder what took them so long to invent them ...
One GOD ! 7.9 billion confused people
Why the industries,( for example tesla), do not use the bromide battery o the flow batterys? I think that bromide battery is much better battery than lithium. I not sure about the capacity and weight, but you can discharge to zero the bromide battery and do not need protection circuits and bromide batterys are cheaper, so why bromide battery are not use, yet, in cars?. Is that bromide batterys are so cheap that are not profitable for the industries?. A 18650 lithium battery only can be discharge to around 3 volts a bromide can be discharge to 0, one kilo of bromide cost around 50 dollars on ebay. So why? You just made a video about bromide battery.
You also say in your video about bromide batterys, that bromide battery are close to the capacity of lithium battery. I think that that difference betwen bromide and lithium is compesate by the fact that bromide battery is cheaper and do not need circuits, can be discharge to zero and there is not danger of Fire and explosions on bromide battery.
in the 1970s Ford made a car with a very similar battery - it is called the chloral hydrate battery - very very similar to the bromide battery
@@ThinkingandTinkering thankyou👍
Want to confuse a young Democrat ? Give them a pack of matches !