Other hive? Such as the red spikey ones we saw in the shadow keep reveal. They may be some of savathuns forces the spikes on her symbol reflected in her new hive.
THE HIVE LOGO IS AN ACOLYTE'S HEAD ORYX'S LOGO IS HIS HEAD SAVATHUN'S LOGO... IS HER HEAD ILL EAT MY SOCKS IF SAVATHUN DOESN'T REMOTELY RESEMBLE THE LOGO ON THE CROWN
As did the creation of the Taken. Let's use the Vandal as an example www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/the-taken-vandal: You are a Vandal. You slip through life like a thief. Trying to hide from everything greater than you - lest you be reduced, again, to a dreg. You have been taken. Come out into the light. You will never be diminished again. No one will ever rebuke you with a blade. What Captain disciplines you? What obedience has been burnt into your lungs? You do as your Captain commands. You wield the weapon you are given. You teach the Dregs and make sure everyone pays their share of the loot. But nothing is yours. You have no space to call your own. You deserve a place of safety. You deserve to be alone with yourself. There is a knife for you. It is shaped like [this place is mine]. Take up the knife. Make it your companion. Take your new shape.
Byf next April fool's day, I need you to do a special special "lets speculate" episode. Think...the psions predictions for zavala and hawthorne levels of silly
@@Galacticbreaker It's a rough situation, man. But, with all rough times, it will pass. You're going to land a damn good job and every thing will turn around. Don't get discouraged and don't think it won't get better. It will get better.
Isn't anyone gonna talk about how Calus calls us "little light" and uses the phrase "O champion mine" just like the ahamkara say "O bearer mine" and any other variation of that phrase
I was telling my clanmates that last night, when u finish the truth quest he talks about wanting to meet Riven and then says o champion mine, he's an ahamkara man
Well Byf did speculate in his Cabal recap video that Calus at one point had a Ahamkara bone in his possession, so yeah not to far fetched to assume there is some dragon influence on the Emperor.
I have no doubt that it's actually a rune for Savathun because what hive name has plagued destiny 2? The inversion of the rune insures that it's a new, different version of the hive, but its crota/oryx's inverted specificly. This to me means it must be related to the hive hierarchy. The four points, would appear to be in reference to horns. Horns which don a wizard's visage. With Savathun known to us as the "Witch Queen", she most certainly has the appearance of a Wizard. Three holes for three siblings with the smallest hole at the top, showing the smallest most secret of the three siblings now in her place of dominance. I believe you are correct in your theory Byf. However I'd also suggest another more outlandish theory. That is the rune of Xivu Arath (is that how you spell it ?) The other of the Oryx's sisters. Her servants and children have appeared in the Dreaming city, and she too has been gathering power in the far reaches of space. The warrior goddess of the hive. Inverting the symbol of the hive, to show her disdain for her siblings, to show how different her spawn is. They are war forged, sharpened by the sword logic over thousands of campaigns against countless worlds. Her armies have been the Deep's blade against all that would not bow to its magnificence. Her mightly swords have brought life to its end and fed her worm millions, these swords shown in her rune, long sweeping blades. These would be the four points seen on that rune. She placed the Crown of Sorrow into the hands of Calus, hoping to claim him and the fat from strength that he knowns, to have his mighty leviathan delivered to her hands. A mighty vessel for which she saw to make her domain, to warp it into a vessel that would hold her ascendant realm. Why have a war moon when your ship could devour moons? She sought to turn Calus's pleasure boat into her warship, her nesting grounds, a vessel to swallow the light and the traveler once and for all. For while she and her spawn sharpened their swords and claws, her mind sharpened as well, learning from her foes the ways of trickery, learning from her past with her sister Savathun, and importantly from her brother King Oryx. For Xivu Arath knows this, if Oryx was ruler of the hive, and his son proclaimed the blade of the hive, were so easily defeated by tiny warriors of the light, then were they truly ever worthy of their titles. She who has never been bested in her conquests of the past centuries. She who learned from her campaigns with Oryx and Savathun, learned from her death. She will bring herself to the system where her brother and nephew and nieces perished, unworthy of the deep and its powers. For she too felt the light of the traveler awaken, and she knowns the deep is moving, and she will offer the traveler's drained carcass as her offering to the deep. But she needs power, to prevent her sister Savathun, who is gleaming with hunger over the secrets of Oryx, who seeks to claim the throne of the Taken king and the hive and claim the Light. But Xivu Arath will not let her do this. She will travel to the sol system, she will place her citadel on rubble of Crota's ascendant plane, she will send her forces to secure the husk if her brothers ship. It will be her Leviathan's first meal, before she forges herself on the Awakened Traveler. But no she can feel it, her Crown of Sorrow, her helm stolen from her sister has been removed, her Cabal champion has been killed. She can see it, feel the remnants of her brother and nieces and nephew. This little light is what was so magnificent her Brother and his brood could not stand against it, were burned from existence by it? Her worm groans and she known what she must do. Savathun has not reclaimed the hive because she is scared of the little light, the Bane of Crota and the King Slayer. It is then Xivu Arath knows what she must do. She will flay this Guardian of its light, temper her sword and take what it has gleamed from the sword logic. For if she kills the God slayer then who else is worthier to be the Deep's blade and champion. With out its Guardian the Traveler will crumble. Savathun will cower at her feet as she storms her ascendant realm and cuts her down. Who else will then be worthy ? No one.....
I think this post is a little far fetched (yet cool) but this makes me believe now that Xivu Arath is the main enemy for Shadowkeep while Savathun will be the real enemy in Destiny 3
@@JSteelers I agree, it's not the most grounded theory but I had fun writing it. Xivu Arath just seems like a better candidate to me than Savathun because Savathun specifically wanted to make herself and her spawn new and different. A large red citadel seems a little out of her secrecy style for my tastes. But in the end we will find out. I still think its suspicious that there are a lot of taken bearing Xivu Arath's name in the dreaming city so I dont think people should forget about her
I don’t have a better hypothesis but what I will say is: For all the teasing of Savathun they’ve done. If she’s ever in the game, they need to do it properly.
I think the symbol is a new one that’s specific to the Witch Queen, but it is specifically used to designate one who is of the hive but from without. That is it is a specific part of their viral language which is used to exert control over non hive entities
Knowing that Gahlran has to do with Savathune I doubt that she would broadcast her involvement so openly. She may have used the symbol of Sivu Arath to attempt to trick us into targeting Sivu Arath instead of her. The possible death of Sivu Arath might then be used to feed Savathune even more. Just a thought ;-)
Another thing that connects Savathun to the Crown of Sorrows and Gahlran: Savathun is known for her trickery, and what is Gahlran able to create? Deceptions. Perfectly tying him and Savathun together, as he got a portion of her power from the crown.
There is 4 holes in the oryx simbol, but 3 in the savathun rune, and in the savathun is open, meaning one of the worm gods are dead (xol), so maybe savathun is affected by xol's death
@@pahaninYT Worm Gods aren't Hive either. Their deaths work the same way Ahamkara deaths do. Although their physical form diminishes, they immortalise themselves as a spirit of some sort. Xol for example, immortalised himself using the Taken on Io to transform himself into a weapon, the Whisper of the Worm. I personally don't think that Worms have Throne Worlds, but it's certain that they had a part in creating the Ascendant Realm.
Hi Byf just wanted to say thanks for consistently putting out quality content. You're videos are what got me into the Destiny Lore during the first game.
@@antonytheocharidis9576 Its from the lore tab of the raid titan helmet. Calus wants a Titan strong enough to wear the crown in Gahlran's place and control the hive for him. (He gives us the raid helmet as a temporary replacement)
"Viral lenguage" Savathun is the aspect of Trickery , and let's be honest unless there is a hive god we've never heard of hiding somewhere in the ascendant plane there is no one else who would try to use such tricks.
That’s a spiky Nazguul. That’s my hot take. Anyway, Spider is Savathuun confirmed. You heard it here first, guardians. Good stuff, Byf. Keep it coming. You sound well.
First I thought that the 4 spaces where for the Osmium King and his three children. And that this Rune is just has the three siblings and cut off the Osmium King as if to say that they are now completely cut off from what they used to be. Could also be the wormgods but Tolland mentions that Xol might not be destroyed and didn't Oryx consume/kill his worm?
... The center symbol( which looks like a spider perhapsa widow)in the crown looks like the "main" power source for the crown but hasn't Calus gone under said personally change at least according to lore books called THE CHRONICON and maybe the lore book Confessions.
I feel like this might be the work of Xivu Arath potentially because the Cabal are made with the idea of war and victory or death. Xivu Arath is the Hive Goddess of War, and she might have created the Crown of Sorrow to alter the minds of the Cabal specifically, to study how they fight and how to overcome Emperor Calus's legions.
ON THE SUBJECT OF THE RUNE: I believe Oryx's rune, as you said, embodies the Hive rune representing the species, as well as The Taken King's physical appearance. However, instead of the flared sides representing the wings that Oryx had, I believe they represent the Crest on Oryx's head. The two horns on the sides of his face, like a hammerhead shark. To this end, I would like to spinfoil that we are seeing the face of Savathûn through this rune. It very clearly reminds me of a Hive Wizard's head, albeit one that has been altered. If Savathûn truly grew apart from her King, her Brother, her people, then she may no longer worship the Worms. The three diamonds in the center may be her eyes as opposed to a representation of the worms the Hive follow. Savathûn is a schemer and a betrayer. Starscream from Transformers essentially. Now that their Megatron (Oryx) has fallen, Savathûn claims the throne. And is it truly that farfetched that Savathûn would seek to be greater than the worms? Oryx slayed Akka, the fifth worm. Guardians slayed Xôl, the fourth worm. Surely Savathûn plans to seize ultimate power through her murder battery in the Dreaming City? And yes Byf, it is entirely possible that the Hive Savathûn took with her have become something other. To that end, I propose this: the Hive on Titan tried to summon Savathûn to Sol. Without Oryx, none are great enough in the remaining worms' eyes to commune with them. If Savathûn has abandoned the worms, and the worms have abandoned the Hive in Sol, perhaps the Hive seek further evolution, as their brethren under Savathûn have perhaps achieved?
Elimaneelolol your Sith Lord and Master great point please see my own comment i mention something similar... savathun is trying to rid her self from the worms that’s why she made the murder battery to keep the worm fed as she tries to find ways to better her people
If you are or were Savathun, Hive Queen of deception, gaining power from all the lies and cunning falsehoods that you tricked people into believing, creating a rune that mimicked your (dead) Brother or otherwise inverting and tricking his followers into following you would be a pretty good starting point, I'd imagine.
So when i was doing the opulence quests when the season began calus said something that really caught my attention "o-champion mine" which sounds like ahamkara speak, thoughts?
Savathun is probably operating on so many levels its mind boggling. Who's to say that if we have been infected with the hive language that this wouldn't serve the basis for Shadowkeep coming up? Is it any wonder it's back on the moon, a place where Crota had a strong presence and involves Eris who may or may not be strung along by Savathun as much as Mara Sov? Perhaps it wasn't Toland who was or is talking to her through the rock but is in fact Savathun, maybe it isn't. Thats the best part about her is because this could all be true or none of it is and it's just causing us to run around in circles.
My question is what is Xivu Arath going to be like? Cause she did end up leaving the two for she was getting hesitant on how much Oryx power was growing but also plain sickening to her. I have a feeling that was not to comfortable of Savu's tricks. She seemed way more rebellious in a since of how she fit with the others. Not saying she wouldn't be a bad guy, being a goddess of War, and who knows what kind of power she uses. Definitely see her being the most loyal, and honorable, but could see her being very "Aries" like as well.
That's what I think too. Like those 3 diamonds in the centre are eyes, and the antlers are her horns. It makes sense, as Oryx and Hiraks are shown to have antler like skulls, ans the upward arrow is similar to Ir Anûk and Ir Halâk, who are Deathsingers just like Savathûn.
The vital language makes me think that Maybe Xyor has the same abilities considering her curse on Dredgen Yor. The cutting word Yor spoke of in his Books of sorrow. The viral languages effect could have been cast when she said his light would shatter and die, and when Azzir took the bone and placed it on his gun the language had a conduit by which it could carry out its sinister and jagged purpose. Xyor did seem to carry quite a bit of power and we haven’t seen another wizard do to a guardian what she did to Azzir, not in game or in lore.
"No idea is too ridiculous, no idea is too silly" ok byf. Zavala and ikora are in an intense sexual relationship that has been furthered by the stress of the coming darkness. When cayde died they did nothing because they wanted to stress relieve in the form of rough passionate sex. Also the drifter knows this and is disgusted and that's why he's in the annex now and not the bazaar, next to ikora.
I was originally hesitant on the idea of the hive having already corrupted us. And then I remember back to the Whisper mission. Despite Xol's imminent demise at the hands of a few Wardcliff Volleys, his voice can still be heard on IO, which is quite the distance away from Mars. It also unnerves me more thinking about his words of us "drowning in the deep" as the Whisper of the Worm Sniper was made using his very essence and spoke to us (at least according to the Gun's Lore tab). We may very well have been drowned in the ideas of revenge and curiosity that we're unable to resurface and understand what the hell has happened.
This video is old but with the new Witch Queen trailer out and another look at Savathun's symbol BYF's comments on the inverted symbol possibly meaning a new breed of hive holds strong now. Also the extra bits on the symbol in the crown of sorrow line up to look more like Savathun's crown, just like how the taken symbol drew looks off Oryx. Also how the two are overlays of the original hive symbol could be a status thing as like the ruler over the hive.
Yo see my favorite TH-camr posting my favorite games lore, with a glorious voice helping a good cause, it’s actually wild how much of a good person you are byf. Keep up the amazing work!
Is it just me or does anyone else feels this, the audio we got from the game files before it was released which the ghost said maybe oryx isn't dead and the triumph in season of the drifter which said isn't he dead? Which says kill a likeness of oryx soooo...... Oryx isn't dead guys!
Savathun feels like the batman or the tzeentch of destiny. Like, no matter how insane the twists are , she's just there doing the Mr burns pose and going "aLL according to plannnn"
@@bspoon2529 big difference between being Smart like idk, lex Luther or iron man and being prepared for different situations, and just dumb storytelling, like tzeentch and batman sometimes, who apparently have thought out every single conceivable course of action that makes sense and doesn't make sense and have found the perfect way to deal with it.
I was actually talking to some friends about this exact topic and made these exact points earlier. As you pointed out, the Oryx’s rune kind of depicted his physical form. I think this rune is slightly reminiscent of the helmet of high level hive wizards, which Savathun would definitely qualify as.
Most things seem to point to Savathun. The fact that in the vidoc when we see Crota it's knows as Crotas phantasm shows the 'Nightmares' are just mind games and the new strain of hive could be the more shaded red in the trailer
Well, as soon as I saw that weird rune I thought "this is probably gonna be Savathuns's symbol" so... 100% agree I guess. Good work putting this theory out for everyone that might not have think about it
It might denote family, or strong allegiance. Crota's has one underneath but not connected. Could be Omigul plus the five dots above...one for the fist, heart, hand, eyes and might of Crota Oryx has four. One for Crota and his two daughters and Nokris Savathun has three. One for Dul Incaru, Malok and Balwur
These are the exact symbols from the towers in Pit of Heresy, with the exception of the center symbol. Looking back it would be great to try to tie the two
Byf I just played against you in iron banner! Who knew that in addition to being a lore scholar you’re also a crucible god, lol you got me good with stormtrance
Hey Byf, think I played with you in the Menagerie the other day, Sanders7981. I was pretty hyped to play with you even if it was only for 15 minutes or so! Keep up the work and great stuff as always!
I think this is true because at 8:46 when u mentioned that the witch queen said we need to become more different it reminded me of the shadowkeep trailer and how the hive look very different and I believe that this is savathuns new different hive
Byf, Have you had a chance to read through the lore tabs on the Menagerie gear? I cant wait to watch your lore videos on it. Especially the one line one of the warlock pieces "Oh Conqueror, Mine"
If you turn the big rune around and remove the 4 long outside lines leading down, you actually get the logo from TKK which stands for Oryx basically. Maybe this one here is Savathuns "emblem" since obviously she is the new leader of the Hive and the long curvy lines resemble her headgear because she is a witch (and to make it distinct from Oryx' emblem yet keep it similar since they were siblings), or so?
Watching this now is wild cause if you take the dots as the worm gods, it still fits as Savathun’s rune now only has one possibly symbolizing the traveler
I remember back in the old days when scar from the lion king was one of the greatest villains for all his planning and success in achieving his goal, but savvathun takes planning and precaution to a whole new level.
"is this what I think, or some other theory?" dude...there's no other theories, it's just you out here doin the lord's work and deciphering this complicated as fuck lore, keep it up
Always thought the “taken” symbol resembled the face of Oryx more than his wings, in that line of thought this could give us a clue as to the shape of Savathun’s head
I believed that you are right, but it could mean more. As we have seen for Oryx the hive on the dreadnaught, they had the symbol of Oryx. While on Mars the hive had the symbol of Nokris, which could signify as a separate hive in it's own sense. These symbols could represent different factions in the hive race entirely.
regarding that the symbol is clearly inverted. If compared to the symbolism of the st-peter's cross (aka the inverted cross) how it is used as an "anti-christian" or "anti-christ" symbol. Maybe is has something to do with Savathun (or whomever that glyph refers to) being against the hive teaching and the "traditional" way of the hive. Maybe it is "anti-worm god" ? I dont know, just a speculation. But that would be pretty cool. Because NORMALLY they seek their power through the worm gods; oryx getting the taken power, Xivu Arath got some sort of power I dont know about, and Nokris getting the power of resurrection/necromancy from Xol (HEAVY SPECULATION CAUSE I HONESTLY DONT KNOW IF THAT WAS FROM XOL OR NOT). Maybe Savathun decided to look for power through other means? Rejecting the traditional ways of worshiping the Worm Gods and finding something else they can feed off. Seem's like thats been the theme of this year anyways. Scorn and dark ether, Gaurdians dabbling in the darkness, etc.
I think the inversion of the rune, if Savathun's, represents her trickery. Also, the extrusions remind me of a crown or Hive wizard headdress, esp. for royal or important Hive. I implore you to observe the large, decorative headdresses of Omnigul and Dul Incaru.
Can't help but see a wizard's face in that rune, with the four protrusions going outward. Looks more like a more ascendant wizard like Omnigul's facial structure. Based off everything that's been building, I really do believe it's Savathuun.
I think one important thing to state is that in the vidoc/trailer for this season bungie showed a space on the Leviathan but it looked like it was in the ascendant realm, which we have yet to go to in this season.
Another thing: Oryx's rune had three crown-like prongs coming out of the top, and this new rune has only two coming out of the bottom. Could the prongs represent the Osmian siblings?
When I first saw the rune I thought it looked like the Crown of Sorrow itself, a base that flays upwards and to the side. So my first interpretation of the symbol is that it is unique to the crown, and is the basis (hive magic wise) for the crown to function, like a line of code in a program
So what will happen if we wear the crown. Calus wants us to put the crown on. Dunno if you should a vid on that but I’d want to see some more info on that.
Just Saying I like the hive lore and I did enjoy fighting them at first but they are so oversaturated at this point. Over half of the dlcs at this point have hive as the main faction.
@@ihbupontyne they're the closest to the darkness out of the 5 main hostile factions, 1 of which may not be hostile soon. It makes sense. I get your point tho
The smaller runes seem to be pulsing with energy that originates from the main rune, perhaps indicating that is what powers/controls them, and if it is Savathuns rune, may be how she controls it. Also on that thought, perhaps the runes them selves are the viral language, as in by us looking upon them and not knowing their meaning, but wanting to learn their meaning, gives them some small power over us, and by extension we may follow a path to learning more that is infact a trap laid out along the path for us.
I'm believe the "big" runes represent the leaders, for example the one asociated with Oryx is pretty similar to his head in some way. Even in one cutscene from TTK you can see how the rune kinda transforms into his head. Plus, this CoS rune looks like the head of a hive witch/wizard
I agree with the fact the the large rune is an image of savathun. But I dont agree with the spider-like-legs protruding from the base. My main thought was a wizard's head. If you look at any hive wizard's head you can see two horn-like tusks protruding from the main skull. If you need a hive wizard that looks most like this symbol, go back into destiny 1 and look at the strike boss Omnigul, who has long pointed horns, instead of the common blunted/blades horns. Just as Oryx's symbol was his wings; Savathun's symbol could be her horns. But like you say, this is merely speculation. Loved the video, anyway! I highly recommend doing more speculative/pondering videos. Its so much fun to put our minds together to try to decipher Destiny's massive lore.
Ok so here me out. I think that the plot of shadow keep will be that nocris is still alive and held out on the moon, raising powerful enemies from the grave. And that at the end of the campaign savathun will deal the final blow when we eventually fight nocris. Then we will fight and "kill" savathun in the raid that will no doubt come in shadow keep. Just a theory though.
When I first saw the rune on my own, I saw the upside down hive symbol right away. As soon as you started in on this video, my brain reminded me of the 4 worm gods and then I made the connections. I have to say, right now most signs point to this theory. Bungie could do a 180 but as more and more signs point to Sav, at this point changing it could be a really bad idea.
I would tend to agree with the shape of the rune being linked to the overall form of the hive deity in question. My 1st thought when looking at the rune was that the large central spike reminded me of the elongated heads of Ir Anuk and Halak. From the original Books of Sorrow we know that Savathun took the form of a witch so its plausible she too could have a similar head design (though how much is down to ceremonial robes over actual body is anyone's guess). I would like the idea of a more insectoid interpretation of the hive which a spider-witch could pull off really well, looking forward to seeing how it plays out even though I know we still probably won't get her till D3. On a side note would love to see a video on some of the Opulence gear, where Calus's scribes talk of your exploits as the Shadow of Shadows.
I think the symbols for Oryx and what we can presume to be Savathun are not just representative of (in the case of Oryx) wings enclosing around the Hive as the highest authority with the exception of religious authority (I like that idea and never thought of it as such) but as a simple matter that it is similar to Oryx's crown. Take Oryx's head for example. There are two wings (so to speak) protruding from either side of his head and at the peak, there are three smaller pieces sticking outright. So if we take the idea that this new rune could be representative of Savathun's crown (head) it does look similar to that of higher witches, Ir Yut or Omnigul being prime examples, then we could be seeing the first imagery of what Savathun may look like
I think the symbol is particularly interesting because it reminds me of another "Witch-Queen" from a different universe... Hela from Marvel Comics. The protrusions on the rune remind me a lot of her "crown," though her's has a lot more curve to it. It's also interesting that there are four of these protrusions. Assuming that the rune designating Oryx is meant to reflect his appearance, then it's also safe to assume that this rune reflects the appearance of its creator as well. Crota and Nokris both beared a resemblance to their father, the aforementioned Oryx, with two main protrusions on their heads / faceplates. Dul Incaru has four of these protrusions. Very similar to the rune within the Crown of Sorrow, but shorter and perhaps less developed. Based on this connection, I'm inclined to agree with you that this rune represents Savathun. Balwur also seemed to have four of these protrusions, though two of them seemed to grow out of the other two. All very interesting, Byf. Very interesting indeed!
If you compare Oryx's symbol to his face it fits almost perfectly. 3 upper dots for the eyes, one lower for the mouth, a few spikes on top near the middle, a large protrusion on either side, and the bones around his mouth leading to a point. Crota's is different, seemingly reminiscent of his ribs, with the small diamond at the top being his head. It's likely Savathun's symbol represents her in a similar, very direct manner to Oryx's, being one of the three sisters. We have an image of the three sisters early in their Hive life in which we can see the beginnings of the features of Oryx that match his symbol (with clear, but smaller side facial protrusions), telling us that as Hive (or at least the sisters) grow these features are likely to become more extreme. This image makes it fairly clear that this symbol, if it works like Oryx's one, is not of Xivu-Arath, as she has much bulkier spikes on her head, pointing slightly up and slightly down out either side of her head (and one slightly forward). On Savathun, however, we can see two things: One is that there are small (and not very clear, due to the lighting) protrusions on the upper back of her head, which would match the large spikes we see in the symbol. Two is that the structure on the sides of her head have a clear plate on either side, leaving her mouth area very open (Xivu-Arath's does the same. It looks kinda like the starter Warlock helmet), which match up with the open bottom of this new symbol. I kind of really want a spider Savathun now tho.
Another idea that points towards this idea being true (of course as you said, it's pure speculation), is that the symbol being inverted sort of shows a W-esc shape, which very vaguely points to the Witch Queen, like other evidences do as well. Also, if we are to invert the new symbol to be right-side-up like the overall Hive symbol, it sort of looks like how a Hive Wizard would look, flowing dress like robes, and the missing diamond shape that could represent Xol could be her head as it sort of looks like the head of Dul Incaru which has those extra bones on the sides of her head, which sometimes with Hive, we see that similarities are carried over from parent to offspring, but not always. Which could point to Savathun having the same side-of-the-head bones like her Daughter, which I think would have that shape of her outfit and overall body shape.
We have learned eliksni language
Hive unga bungas are no match for us
This comment has made my day.
KaheeroZ Unga Bungas.
U NAILED IT
Wait when did learn about Fallen or eliksni language?
@@oniseven3225 The awoken did
Byf: "Here's my theory"
Bungie writers: (panicking internally) "Damnit! He knows!"
I’m pretty sure Bungie has just given up when it comes to keeping secrets from Byf.
Byf pretty much solved the entirety of Destiny’s mysterious lore
Im positive bungie does lore stuff just for byf.
@Sporke But theories are just that, imaginations and assumptions, it isn't special when a theory is wrong, IT IS however, when it's right
A redditor on r/DestinyTheGame pointed this theory out a couple days before this video
@SporkeSaying he "makes trash theories" sounds a lot like you tryina dis him though lol
Savathun knows how we raid now. Her raid is going to be something else.
If they add a savathun raid to shadowkeep I'll be so happy
The raid will probably have Quria as the villain because it's set in the Black Garden , but Savathun will 99,9% be the villain of Shadowkeep
Nikola Popov i agree smh it’s gonna be nuts
@@jakespacepiratee3740 femal Sauron can be Xivu Arath
@@prod.wavyseal yah I'm with u, hope they make her an actual villain that we get to interact with more. There's nothing wrong with boobs tho😏
I was just looking for something to watch and this popped up. Byf my man, you have exquisite timing
IKR! Just hopped off an 8 hour grind fest for the hush bow which is almost done and needed a refresher. His timing is obsolete.
@@arctic-rebirth did you mean...absolute?
@@DredgenStorm maybe he had Fear Factorys song " obsolete " playing while they were typing :S
He sure does
Other hive? Such as the red spikey ones we saw in the shadow keep reveal. They may be some of savathuns forces the spikes on her symbol reflected in her new hive.
@Jessy Landry ah OK 😅 I've never played d1 but thanks for clearing that up :)
Counter theory:
Byf is Savathun.
Right up there with Datto being The Speaker.
And more console being cayde
@@DrM1nd3nd3r and zavala being Rasputin.
THE HIVE LOGO IS AN ACOLYTE'S HEAD
ORYX'S LOGO IS HIS HEAD
SAVATHUN'S LOGO... IS HER HEAD
ILL EAT MY SOCKS IF SAVATHUN DOESN'T REMOTELY RESEMBLE THE LOGO ON THE CROWN
Prepare yourself, I'll remember you of this.
@@pracitus I as well will remember with you. I also want a video proof.
Keep your promise down to your last breath
@@pracitus Oh I'll definitely do it if I'm wrong. I'm sworn to it now.
@@comicartifact I have beer on the line here don't disappoint
The shape of the rune looks very similar to the heads of oryx’s daughters from Kings fall.
The oryx symbol looks like his head. Perhaps the symbol of the crown is how the head of savathun looks like.
You mean Pyramid Heads?
All this talk about head........ Ooooohhhhh!
@@irvs5922 yes and water is wet. You stated the most obvious thing to possibly could have
I think theres too many points. The deathsingers had one big point like, someone above me mentioned, Pyramid head
Byf I cannot run with you AND hold my horses simultaneously D:
They are wild.
I started this video simultaneously as I started up d2 and the theme songs played together and it was awesome
The [raid] has [brackets] saying grow [weak] with [pride].
One thousand voices also has this [viral language] on it.
As did the creation of the Taken. Let's use the Vandal as an example www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/the-taken-vandal:
You are a Vandal. You slip through life like a thief. Trying to hide from everything greater than you - lest you be reduced, again, to a dreg.
You have been taken.
Come out into the light. You will never be diminished again. No one will ever rebuke you with a blade.
What Captain disciplines you? What obedience has been burnt into your lungs?
You do as your Captain commands. You wield the weapon you are given. You teach the Dregs and make sure everyone pays their share of the loot. But nothing is yours. You have no space to call your own.
You deserve a place of safety. You deserve to be alone with yourself.
There is a knife for you. It is shaped like [this place is mine].
Take up the knife. Make it your companion. Take your new shape.
Byf: no theory is too crazy
Me: *Remembering That Sounds Like a You Problem angry lore reading*
Me: *sweats profusely*
Byf next April fool's day, I need you to do a special special "lets speculate" episode. Think...the psions predictions for zavala and hawthorne levels of silly
Good ideA!
Byf: *theorizes*
Bungie: WRITE THAT DOWN WRITE THAT DOWN
Your Videos about the lore are the main point why I'm so interested in the whole world of Destiny. They are great keep up the good content
Agreed! My clan and I are always sharing his post. They creat a more immersive feeling in the game. Thx to byf
Been dealing with heavy thoughts lately. This is just the perfect kind of distraction! Thank you so much for making these vids!
Is everything okay?
Hope it gets better guardian
@@ssxdeadsh0t609 I wish it was. Haven't heard back from any of the job interviews in the last few months and I'm almost in the red.
@@Galacticbreaker It's a rough situation, man. But, with all rough times, it will pass. You're going to land a damn good job and every thing will turn around. Don't get discouraged and don't think it won't get better. It will get better.
Yah byf is always there for us!
Isn't anyone gonna talk about how Calus calls us "little light" and uses the phrase
"O champion mine" just like the ahamkara say
"O bearer mine" and any other variation of that phrase
I was telling my clanmates that last night, when u finish the truth quest he talks about wanting to meet Riven and then says o champion mine, he's an ahamkara man
Well Byf did speculate in his Cabal recap video that Calus at one point had a Ahamkara bone in his possession, so yeah not to far fetched to assume there is some dragon influence on the Emperor.
Byf, you've got a solid enough track record after your correct prediction of the Lumina quest and weapons of hope.
Imagine killing the rest of the worm gods with whisper and you hear xol voice saying: "bruh?"
I have no doubt that it's actually a rune for Savathun because what hive name has plagued destiny 2? The inversion of the rune insures that it's a new, different version of the hive, but its crota/oryx's inverted specificly. This to me means it must be related to the hive hierarchy. The four points, would appear to be in reference to horns. Horns which don a wizard's visage. With Savathun known to us as the "Witch Queen", she most certainly has the appearance of a Wizard. Three holes for three siblings with the smallest hole at the top, showing the smallest most secret of the three siblings now in her place of dominance. I believe you are correct in your theory Byf.
However I'd also suggest another more outlandish theory. That is the rune of Xivu Arath (is that how you spell it ?) The other of the Oryx's sisters. Her servants and children have appeared in the Dreaming city, and she too has been gathering power in the far reaches of space. The warrior goddess of the hive. Inverting the symbol of the hive, to show her disdain for her siblings, to show how different her spawn is. They are war forged, sharpened by the sword logic over thousands of campaigns against countless worlds. Her armies have been the Deep's blade against all that would not bow to its magnificence. Her mightly swords have brought life to its end and fed her worm millions, these swords shown in her rune, long sweeping blades. These would be the four points seen on that rune. She placed the Crown of Sorrow into the hands of Calus, hoping to claim him and the fat from strength that he knowns, to have his mighty leviathan delivered to her hands. A mighty vessel for which she saw to make her domain, to warp it into a vessel that would hold her ascendant realm. Why have a war moon when your ship could devour moons? She sought to turn Calus's pleasure boat into her warship, her nesting grounds, a vessel to swallow the light and the traveler once and for all. For while she and her spawn sharpened their swords and claws, her mind sharpened as well, learning from her foes the ways of trickery, learning from her past with her sister Savathun, and importantly from her brother King Oryx. For Xivu Arath knows this, if Oryx was ruler of the hive, and his son proclaimed the blade of the hive, were so easily defeated by tiny warriors of the light, then were they truly ever worthy of their titles. She who has never been bested in her conquests of the past centuries. She who learned from her campaigns with Oryx and Savathun, learned from her death. She will bring herself to the system where her brother and nephew and nieces perished, unworthy of the deep and its powers. For she too felt the light of the traveler awaken, and she knowns the deep is moving, and she will offer the traveler's drained carcass as her offering to the deep. But she needs power, to prevent her sister Savathun, who is gleaming with hunger over the secrets of Oryx, who seeks to claim the throne of the Taken king and the hive and claim the Light. But Xivu Arath will not let her do this. She will travel to the sol system, she will place her citadel on rubble of Crota's ascendant plane, she will send her forces to secure the husk if her brothers ship. It will be her Leviathan's first meal, before she forges herself on the Awakened Traveler. But no she can feel it, her Crown of Sorrow, her helm stolen from her sister has been removed, her Cabal champion has been killed. She can see it, feel the remnants of her brother and nieces and nephew. This little light is what was so magnificent her Brother and his brood could not stand against it, were burned from existence by it? Her worm groans and she known what she must do. Savathun has not reclaimed the hive because she is scared of the little light, the Bane of Crota and the King Slayer. It is then Xivu Arath knows what she must do. She will flay this Guardian of its light, temper her sword and take what it has gleamed from the sword logic. For if she kills the God slayer then who else is worthier to be the Deep's blade and champion. With out its Guardian the Traveler will crumble. Savathun will cower at her feet as she storms her ascendant realm and cuts her down. Who else will then be worthy ?
No one.....
I think this post is a little far fetched (yet cool) but this makes me believe now that Xivu Arath is the main enemy for Shadowkeep while Savathun will be the real enemy in Destiny 3
@@JSteelers I agree, it's not the most grounded theory but I had fun writing it. Xivu Arath just seems like a better candidate to me than Savathun because Savathun specifically wanted to make herself and her spawn new and different. A large red citadel seems a little out of her secrecy style for my tastes. But in the end we will find out. I still think its suspicious that there are a lot of taken bearing Xivu Arath's name in the dreaming city so I dont think people should forget about her
Byf Logic > Sword Logic
I don’t have a better hypothesis but what I will say is:
For all the teasing of Savathun they’ve done. If she’s ever in the game, they need to do it properly.
I hope they do but they will probably make her a regular story boss I can melee to death cough cough gaul
I think the symbol is a new one that’s specific to the Witch Queen, but it is specifically used to designate one who is of the hive but from without. That is it is a specific part of their viral language which is used to exert control over non hive entities
M8, it's the taken king logo... with hair. It's clearly Savathun
Lazy bungie artist lmao
When he went in the helmet n looked at it I was like oh that's prob Savathun...9 mins later lol
Knowing that Gahlran has to do with Savathune I doubt that she would broadcast her involvement so openly. She may have used the symbol of Sivu Arath to attempt to trick us into targeting Sivu Arath instead of her. The possible death of Sivu Arath might then be used to feed Savathune even more. Just a thought ;-)
Xivu Arath*
Another thing that connects Savathun to the Crown of Sorrows and Gahlran: Savathun is known for her trickery, and what is Gahlran able to create? Deceptions. Perfectly tying him and Savathun together, as he got a portion of her power from the crown.
There is 4 holes in the oryx simbol, but 3 in the savathun rune, and in the savathun is open, meaning one of the worm gods are dead (xol), so maybe savathun is affected by xol's death
Xol isn’t dead though, if he is an ascendant hive then when we beat him he just retreated back into his throne world
@@pahaninYT Worm Gods aren't Hive either. Their deaths work the same way Ahamkara deaths do. Although their physical form diminishes, they immortalise themselves as a spirit of some sort. Xol for example, immortalised himself using the Taken on Io to transform himself into a weapon, the Whisper of the Worm. I personally don't think that Worms have Throne Worlds, but it's certain that they had a part in creating the Ascendant Realm.
Hi Byf just wanted to say thanks for consistently putting out quality content. You're videos are what got me into the Destiny Lore during the first game.
"Will you wear it when I ask you? Because the day will come."
-Emperor Calus, to an unknown Titan
wait what? CONTEXT PLEASE
@@antonytheocharidis9576 Its from the lore tab of the raid titan helmet. Calus wants a Titan strong enough to wear the crown in Gahlran's place and control the hive for him.
(He gives us the raid helmet as a temporary replacement)
IRUNASSAULT yeah makes u wonder
damn thats so cool
I think that also on Oryx's symbol the three points on the top might represent a crown.
Something I just noticed: the Hive’s symbol looks a lot like the shape of one of their worms
Your pfp looks like this discovery scared and surprised you
"Viral lenguage"
Savathun is the aspect of Trickery , and let's be honest unless there is a hive god we've never heard of hiding somewhere in the ascendant plane there is no one else who would try to use such tricks.
I saw my buddy Lich's image there. Thanks for the kind words and suggestions about those that worked on the images Byf
I believe oryx’s rune represents his face with the prongs on the side being his horns and Savathuns being the same like the prong being horns
In 2021 Bungie's gonna reveal that we've all been listening and following Savathun for years... it's Byf.
When you don’t even play destiny but Byf’s content keeps you up with the amazing lore.
That’s a spiky Nazguul. That’s my hot take. Anyway, Spider is Savathuun confirmed. You heard it here first, guardians. Good stuff, Byf. Keep it coming. You sound well.
First I thought that the 4 spaces where for the Osmium King and his three children. And that this Rune is just has the three siblings and cut off the Osmium King as if to say that they are now completely cut off from what they used to be. Could also be the wormgods but Tolland mentions that Xol might not be destroyed and didn't Oryx consume/kill his worm?
No, he killed one of the worm gods to gain the power to "take". There now only 2 worm gods if Xol really is gone
... The center symbol( which looks like a spider perhapsa widow)in the crown looks like the "main" power source for the crown but hasn't Calus gone under said personally change at least according to lore books called THE CHRONICON and maybe the lore book Confessions.
I feel like this might be the work of Xivu Arath potentially because the Cabal are made with the idea of war and victory or death. Xivu Arath is the Hive Goddess of War, and she might have created the Crown of Sorrow to alter the minds of the Cabal specifically, to study how they fight and how to overcome Emperor Calus's legions.
NordicNarwhal hmmm good theory
ON THE SUBJECT OF THE RUNE:
I believe Oryx's rune, as you said, embodies the Hive rune representing the species, as well as The Taken King's physical appearance. However, instead of the flared sides representing the wings that Oryx had, I believe they represent the Crest on Oryx's head. The two horns on the sides of his face, like a hammerhead shark.
To this end, I would like to spinfoil that we are seeing the face of Savathûn through this rune. It very clearly reminds me of a Hive Wizard's head, albeit one that has been altered. If Savathûn truly grew apart from her King, her Brother, her people, then she may no longer worship the Worms. The three diamonds in the center may be her eyes as opposed to a representation of the worms the Hive follow. Savathûn is a schemer and a betrayer. Starscream from Transformers essentially. Now that their Megatron (Oryx) has fallen, Savathûn claims the throne. And is it truly that farfetched that Savathûn would seek to be greater than the worms? Oryx slayed Akka, the fifth worm. Guardians slayed Xôl, the fourth worm. Surely Savathûn plans to seize ultimate power through her murder battery in the Dreaming City?
And yes Byf, it is entirely possible that the Hive Savathûn took with her have become something other. To that end, I propose this: the Hive on Titan tried to summon Savathûn to Sol. Without Oryx, none are great enough in the remaining worms' eyes to commune with them. If Savathûn has abandoned the worms, and the worms have abandoned the Hive in Sol, perhaps the Hive seek further evolution, as their brethren under Savathûn have perhaps achieved?
Elimaneelolol your Sith Lord and Master great point please see my own comment i mention something similar... savathun is trying to rid her self from the worms that’s why she made the murder battery to keep the worm fed as she tries to find ways to better her people
If you are or were Savathun, Hive Queen of deception, gaining power from all the lies and cunning falsehoods that you tricked people into believing, creating a rune that mimicked your (dead) Brother or otherwise inverting and tricking his followers into following you would be a pretty good starting point, I'd imagine.
So when i was doing the opulence quests when the season began calus said something that really caught my attention "o-champion mine" which sounds like ahamkara speak, thoughts?
Savathun is probably operating on so many levels its mind boggling. Who's to say that if we have been infected with the hive language that this wouldn't serve the basis for Shadowkeep coming up? Is it any wonder it's back on the moon, a place where Crota had a strong presence and involves Eris who may or may not be strung along by Savathun as much as Mara Sov? Perhaps it wasn't Toland who was or is talking to her through the rock but is in fact Savathun, maybe it isn't. Thats the best part about her is because this could all be true or none of it is and it's just causing us to run around in circles.
eastsideslingerjoe eris herself says she was tricked in the last truth to power entry
My question is what is Xivu Arath going to be like? Cause she did end up leaving the two for she was getting hesitant on how much Oryx power was growing but also plain sickening to her. I have a feeling that was not to comfortable of Savu's tricks. She seemed way more rebellious in a since of how she fit with the others. Not saying she wouldn't be a bad guy, being a goddess of War, and who knows what kind of power she uses. Definitely see her being the most loyal, and honorable, but could see her being very "Aries" like as well.
Jesse Ritchie i agree... plus remember savathun used xivu’s forces in the dreaming city for her murder battery so i wonder how she felt about that
It's probably showing Savathun having horns like Hela in Thor Ragnarock
That's what I think too. Like those 3 diamonds in the centre are eyes, and the antlers are her horns. It makes sense, as Oryx and Hiraks are shown to have antler like skulls, ans the upward arrow is similar to Ir Anûk and Ir Halâk, who are Deathsingers just like Savathûn.
The vital language makes me think that Maybe Xyor has the same abilities considering her curse on Dredgen Yor. The cutting word Yor spoke of in his Books of sorrow. The viral languages effect could have been cast when she said his light would shatter and die, and when Azzir took the bone and placed it on his gun the language had a conduit by which it could carry out its sinister and jagged purpose. Xyor did seem to carry quite a bit of power and we haven’t seen another wizard do to a guardian what she did to Azzir, not in game or in lore.
"No idea is too ridiculous, no idea is too silly" ok byf. Zavala and ikora are in an intense sexual relationship that has been furthered by the stress of the coming darkness. When cayde died they did nothing because they wanted to stress relieve in the form of rough passionate sex. Also the drifter knows this and is disgusted and that's why he's in the annex now and not the bazaar, next to ikora.
I was originally hesitant on the idea of the hive having already corrupted us. And then I remember back to the Whisper mission. Despite Xol's imminent demise at the hands of a few Wardcliff Volleys, his voice can still be heard on IO, which is quite the distance away from Mars. It also unnerves me more thinking about his words of us "drowning in the deep" as the Whisper of the Worm Sniper was made using his very essence and spoke to us (at least according to the Gun's Lore tab).
We may very well have been drowned in the ideas of revenge and curiosity that we're unable to resurface and understand what the hell has happened.
Hunter_Michelie except Xol ain’t Dead. We killed him outside a throne world, then we found him after he turned himself into the Whisper
This video is old but with the new Witch Queen trailer out and another look at Savathun's symbol BYF's comments on the inverted symbol possibly meaning a new breed of hive holds strong now. Also the extra bits on the symbol in the crown of sorrow line up to look more like Savathun's crown, just like how the taken symbol drew looks off Oryx. Also how the two are overlays of the original hive symbol could be a status thing as like the ruler over the hive.
Is there any significance to Calus referring to us as "O Champion Mine"? Sounds very Ahamkara-ish
@@prod.wavyseal worms and ahamkara are the same Species..
Yo see my favorite TH-camr posting my favorite games lore, with a glorious voice helping a good cause, it’s actually wild how much of a good person you are byf. Keep up the amazing work!
Is it just me or does anyone else feels this, the audio we got from the game files before it was released which the ghost said maybe oryx isn't dead and the triumph in season of the drifter which said isn't he dead? Which says kill a likeness of oryx soooo...... Oryx isn't dead guys!
Savathun feels like the batman or the tzeentch of destiny. Like, no matter how insane the twists are , she's just there doing the Mr burns pose and going "aLL according to plannnn"
All according to keikaku
Oisin Lynch lmbo facts she is insanely intelligent
@@bspoon2529 big difference between being Smart like idk, lex Luther or iron man and being prepared for different situations, and just dumb storytelling, like tzeentch and batman sometimes, who apparently have thought out every single conceivable course of action that makes sense and doesn't make sense and have found the perfect way to deal with it.
This is an eye opening lore video. Great job on all your hard work decoding these clues
As he always does. 👍👍
No offense Byf but finally we get knowledge about enemy languages FINALLY! I have soo many questions about Hive,Fallen and Cabal language.
If ya haven't seen it yet, here's a nifty video involving the Fallen language th-cam.com/video/0V-XpzLX4YE/w-d-xo.html
"No idea is too stupid" -Mynameifbyf
*Flashbacks to TSLAYP Lore video*
I was actually talking to some friends about this exact topic and made these exact points earlier. As you pointed out, the Oryx’s rune kind of depicted his physical form. I think this rune is slightly reminiscent of the helmet of high level hive wizards, which Savathun would definitely qualify as.
Do you think there is gonna be an Easter egg with those symbols? Like you shoot them like you shoot the symbols in the forges to activate them?
Most things seem to point to Savathun. The fact that in the vidoc when we see Crota it's knows as Crotas phantasm shows the 'Nightmares' are just mind games and the new strain of hive could be the more shaded red in the trailer
Well, as soon as I saw that weird rune I thought "this is probably gonna be Savathuns's symbol" so... 100% agree I guess. Good work putting this theory out for everyone that might not have think about it
It might denote family, or strong allegiance.
Crota's has one underneath but not connected. Could be Omigul plus the five dots above...one for the fist, heart, hand, eyes and might of Crota
Oryx has four. One for Crota and his two daughters and Nokris
Savathun has three. One for Dul Incaru, Malok and Balwur
These are the exact symbols from the towers in Pit of Heresy, with the exception of the center symbol. Looking back it would be great to try to tie the two
Byf I just played against you in iron banner! Who knew that in addition to being a lore scholar you’re also a crucible god, lol you got me good with stormtrance
If any of you want to know more about uldren look at the menagerie chest piece for the titan 👀
Oh, thx! 👌👍👏👏👏👏
Hey Byf, think I played with you in the Menagerie the other day, Sanders7981. I was pretty hyped to play with you even if it was only for 15 minutes or so! Keep up the work and great stuff as always!
11:16 that subtle inclusion of the “is this...” meme made me chuckle 😂
I think this is true because at 8:46 when u mentioned that the witch queen said we need to become more different it reminded me of the shadowkeep trailer and how the hive look very different and I believe that this is savathuns new different hive
Byf, Have you had a chance to read through the lore tabs on the Menagerie gear? I cant wait to watch your lore videos on it. Especially the one line one of the warlock pieces "Oh Conqueror, Mine"
I think the big rune represents Savathun for sure
Agreed!
If you turn the big rune around and remove the 4 long outside lines leading down, you actually get the logo from TKK which stands for Oryx basically. Maybe this one here is Savathuns "emblem" since obviously she is the new leader of the Hive and the long curvy lines resemble her headgear because she is a witch (and to make it distinct from Oryx' emblem yet keep it similar since they were siblings), or so?
Who would think this is the same Byf that makes "That sound like a YOU problem" videos? Love the vids, keep them pumping out my dude!
Watching this now is wild cause if you take the dots as the worm gods, it still fits as Savathun’s rune now only has one possibly symbolizing the traveler
I remember back in the old days when scar from the lion king was one of the greatest villains for all his planning and success in achieving his goal, but savvathun takes planning and precaution to a whole new level.
"is this what I think, or some other theory?"
dude...there's no other theories, it's just you out here doin the lord's work and deciphering this complicated as fuck lore, keep it up
Always thought the “taken” symbol resembled the face of Oryx more than his wings, in that line of thought this could give us a clue as to the shape of Savathun’s head
I believed that you are right, but it could mean more. As we have seen for Oryx the hive on the dreadnaught, they had the symbol of Oryx. While on Mars the hive had the symbol of Nokris, which could signify as a separate hive in it's own sense. These symbols could represent different factions in the hive race entirely.
regarding that the symbol is clearly inverted. If compared to the symbolism of the st-peter's cross (aka the inverted cross) how it is used as an "anti-christian" or "anti-christ" symbol. Maybe is has something to do with Savathun (or whomever that glyph refers to) being against the hive teaching and the "traditional" way of the hive. Maybe it is "anti-worm god" ? I dont know, just a speculation. But that would be pretty cool. Because NORMALLY they seek their power through the worm gods; oryx getting the taken power, Xivu Arath got some sort of power I dont know about, and Nokris getting the power of resurrection/necromancy from Xol (HEAVY SPECULATION CAUSE I HONESTLY DONT KNOW IF THAT WAS FROM XOL OR NOT). Maybe Savathun decided to look for power through other means? Rejecting the traditional ways of worshiping the Worm Gods and finding something else they can feed off. Seem's like thats been the theme of this year anyways. Scorn and dark ether, Gaurdians dabbling in the darkness, etc.
I think Viral Language is a conveyor of powers and causes unique powers in taken.
[Viral Language Uses Brackets]
I think the inversion of the rune, if Savathun's, represents her trickery. Also, the extrusions remind me of a crown or Hive wizard headdress, esp. for royal or important Hive. I implore you to observe the large, decorative headdresses of Omnigul and Dul Incaru.
Can't help but see a wizard's face in that rune, with the four protrusions going outward. Looks more like a more ascendant wizard like Omnigul's facial structure. Based off everything that's been building, I really do believe it's Savathuun.
I think one important thing to state is that in the vidoc/trailer for this season bungie showed a space on the Leviathan but it looked like it was in the ascendant realm, which we have yet to go to in this season.
2:30
What's the music here called? It's really good
It's the Leviathan theme
Kaan Taner In the D2 Soundtrack it is the piece called Leviathan :)
Thanks
Another thing: Oryx's rune had three crown-like prongs coming out of the top, and this new rune has only two coming out of the bottom. Could the prongs represent the Osmian siblings?
Byf, your speculation is awesome! Would you consider doing more speculation-centric videos in the future?
When I first saw the rune I thought it looked like the Crown of Sorrow itself, a base that flays upwards and to the side. So my first interpretation of the symbol is that it is unique to the crown, and is the basis (hive magic wise) for the crown to function, like a line of code in a program
So what will happen if we wear the crown. Calus wants us to put the crown on. Dunno if you should a vid on that but I’d want to see some more info on that.
Even though destiny is at times a clunky game it's lore is one of the most interesting and one i found liking a lot! and the hive is a great faction
Just Saying I like the hive lore and I did enjoy fighting them at first but they are so oversaturated at this point. Over half of the dlcs at this point have hive as the main faction.
@@ihbupontyne they're the closest to the darkness out of the 5 main hostile factions, 1 of which may not be hostile soon. It makes sense. I get your point tho
The smaller runes seem to be pulsing with energy that originates from the main rune, perhaps indicating that is what powers/controls them, and if it is Savathuns rune, may be how she controls it. Also on that thought, perhaps the runes them selves are the viral language, as in by us looking upon them and not knowing their meaning, but wanting to learn their meaning, gives them some small power over us, and by extension we may follow a path to learning more that is infact a trap laid out along the path for us.
I'm believe the "big" runes represent the leaders, for example the one asociated with Oryx is pretty similar to his head in some way. Even in one cutscene from TTK you can see how the rune kinda transforms into his head. Plus, this CoS rune looks like the head of a hive witch/wizard
I agree with the fact the the large rune is an image of savathun. But I dont agree with the spider-like-legs protruding from the base. My main thought was a wizard's head. If you look at any hive wizard's head you can see two horn-like tusks protruding from the main skull. If you need a hive wizard that looks most like this symbol, go back into destiny 1 and look at the strike boss Omnigul, who has long pointed horns, instead of the common blunted/blades horns. Just as Oryx's symbol was his wings; Savathun's symbol could be her horns. But like you say, this is merely speculation. Loved the video, anyway! I highly recommend doing more speculative/pondering videos. Its so much fun to put our minds together to try to decipher Destiny's massive lore.
Ok so here me out.
I think that the plot of shadow keep will be that nocris is still alive and held out on the moon, raising powerful enemies from the grave. And that at the end of the campaign savathun will deal the final blow when we eventually fight nocris. Then we will fight and "kill" savathun in the raid that will no doubt come in shadow keep.
Just a theory though.
I can totally see Nokris being involved in Shadow Keep but the raid seems to be about Quiria in the black garden which would lead to Savathun later on
When I first saw the rune on my own, I saw the upside down hive symbol right away. As soon as you started in on this video, my brain reminded me of the 4 worm gods and then I made the connections.
I have to say, right now most signs point to this theory. Bungie could do a 180 but as more and more signs point to Sav, at this point changing it could be a really bad idea.
Byf and myelin are the best destiny lore TH-camrs no cap
I would tend to agree with the shape of the rune being linked to the overall form of the hive deity in question. My 1st thought when looking at the rune was that the large central spike reminded me of the elongated heads of Ir Anuk and Halak. From the original Books of Sorrow we know that Savathun took the form of a witch so its plausible she too could have a similar head design (though how much is down to ceremonial robes over actual body is anyone's guess). I would like the idea of a more insectoid interpretation of the hive which a spider-witch could pull off really well, looking forward to seeing how it plays out even though I know we still probably won't get her till D3. On a side note would love to see a video on some of the Opulence gear, where Calus's scribes talk of your exploits as the Shadow of Shadows.
I think the symbols for Oryx and what we can presume to be Savathun are not just representative of (in the case of Oryx) wings enclosing around the Hive as the highest authority with the exception of religious authority (I like that idea and never thought of it as such) but as a simple matter that it is similar to Oryx's crown.
Take Oryx's head for example. There are two wings (so to speak) protruding from either side of his head and at the peak, there are three smaller pieces sticking outright.
So if we take the idea that this new rune could be representative of Savathun's crown (head) it does look similar to that of higher witches, Ir Yut or Omnigul being prime examples, then we could be seeing the first imagery of what Savathun may look like
I'm glad that I haven't been the only one curious about that same hive rune
I think the symbol is particularly interesting because it reminds me of another "Witch-Queen" from a different universe... Hela from Marvel Comics. The protrusions on the rune remind me a lot of her "crown," though her's has a lot more curve to it.
It's also interesting that there are four of these protrusions. Assuming that the rune designating Oryx is meant to reflect his appearance, then it's also safe to assume that this rune reflects the appearance of its creator as well. Crota and Nokris both beared a resemblance to their father, the aforementioned Oryx, with two main protrusions on their heads / faceplates. Dul Incaru has four of these protrusions. Very similar to the rune within the Crown of Sorrow, but shorter and perhaps less developed. Based on this connection, I'm inclined to agree with you that this rune represents Savathun. Balwur also seemed to have four of these protrusions, though two of them seemed to grow out of the other two.
All very interesting, Byf. Very interesting indeed!
Seen these runes around Titan. On some egg looking things. Also in Will of the Thousands strike, and other areas with Hive
If you compare Oryx's symbol to his face it fits almost perfectly. 3 upper dots for the eyes, one lower for the mouth, a few spikes on top near the middle, a large protrusion on either side, and the bones around his mouth leading to a point. Crota's is different, seemingly reminiscent of his ribs, with the small diamond at the top being his head. It's likely Savathun's symbol represents her in a similar, very direct manner to Oryx's, being one of the three sisters.
We have an image of the three sisters early in their Hive life in which we can see the beginnings of the features of Oryx that match his symbol (with clear, but smaller side facial protrusions), telling us that as Hive (or at least the sisters) grow these features are likely to become more extreme. This image makes it fairly clear that this symbol, if it works like Oryx's one, is not of Xivu-Arath, as she has much bulkier spikes on her head, pointing slightly up and slightly down out either side of her head (and one slightly forward).
On Savathun, however, we can see two things: One is that there are small (and not very clear, due to the lighting) protrusions on the upper back of her head, which would match the large spikes we see in the symbol. Two is that the structure on the sides of her head have a clear plate on either side, leaving her mouth area very open (Xivu-Arath's does the same. It looks kinda like the starter Warlock helmet), which match up with the open bottom of this new symbol.
I kind of really want a spider Savathun now tho.
Another idea that points towards this idea being true (of course as you said, it's pure speculation), is that the symbol being inverted sort of shows a W-esc shape, which very vaguely points to the Witch Queen, like other evidences do as well. Also, if we are to invert the new symbol to be right-side-up like the overall Hive symbol, it sort of looks like how a Hive Wizard would look, flowing dress like robes, and the missing diamond shape that could represent Xol could be her head as it sort of looks like the head of Dul Incaru which has those extra bones on the sides of her head, which sometimes with Hive, we see that similarities are carried over from parent to offspring, but not always. Which could point to Savathun having the same side-of-the-head bones like her Daughter, which I think would have that shape of her outfit and overall body shape.