Why do you cover up your company name when there are people who know who you are working for. Then you got sharn who isn't scared about showing who he works for.
@@plaguemaster308 I totally understand that you can find the company name online. It's just why does anton go to the trouble of hiding the bus company name and logo??
It’s down to the driver and the company to have an agreement and to ensure that all company policies are adhered to. Drivers who choose to cover up logos are safer as they do not jeopardise their job. I’m just really lucky in some respects :)
Appreciate you putting this video online. Totally agree with you about the points raised. It’s important to manage your health especially when having a job that has huge responsibilities not just for yourself, but for passengers and other road users/people.
I didn`t know that British bus drivers work so much. In my company Carris, the lisbon bus operator we work in max 9 hours per duty with 2 hours pause, work 6 days and rest 2 days. But most of services is 7h30 of driving and rest until next day. The salary is less, around 1000€ per month but it`s a good value for our country and it`s a lot better compared with other bus companies.
You can put in 80-90 hour weeks obviously a lot of it is not behind the wheel but the UK bus industry is very reliant on overtime. If you want to you can take home easily £1100 a week working the mad hours.
I’m 30years driving buses in Dublin . Your hours are savage . Max we do is 7.38 driving per day . We work 39 hours over five weeks with a long and short weekend every five weeks ..tnks god we are not privatized
You think what you do is savage mate? I drove buses in Glasgow and you worked on average 10 to 12 hrs a day 5 days but because the pay was shit, you’d be out 6 maybe 7 days. Finish late day before day off, and early start day going back. Being a bus driver is such a hard life
@@jaimieneilson5378 I used to do 80-90 hours a week when I was saving for a deposit on a house £900-£1000 take home every week. My rota hours were around 43 over 5 but hammered the overtime was decent. Drive artics now but if I ever need money fast I'll be straight back to the buses. Shame it sucked in your area.
I find the hardest swing is when you finish at 1am are back in for like a 10 start and work a 11hr shift but then start at 5am the 3rd day your body is goosed. The biggest challenge is the lack of respect from other road users if I am honest, at times I think my indicators are connected to car accelerators and roundabouts OMG it might be give way to the right but it's also give way to vehicles already in the roundabout not speed up to cause a problem because you're coming off a blind slip road from the right, news flash buses aren't as fast as cars when getting away and require time
Well said. I don't drive a bus but I have friends that do, and as someone who cannot drive for medical reasons I am totally reliant of buses. Four big things for me: 1. Maximum driving period should be reduced from 5.5 hours to 4.5 hours with a half hour "emergency" period if needed. Therefore 5 hours in exceptional circumstances. 2. Maximum daily limit of 9 Hours (two 4.5 hour stints) with a minimum legal break of one hour 3. Minimum 10 hours rest between shifts., For those drivers a five day week 12 hours minimum rest between shifts 4. Maximum of a 50 hour working week spread over four or five days out of seven Until something similar to the above is implemented, drivers will continue to drive when they are possibly not fit to do so. I know that it may add to the shortage of staff but what price safety? Also knowing that the new restrictions are in place may encourage more people to drive buses.
Making us bus drivers work 7 days in a row is barbaric and inhumane especially with the ridiculous hours that we do, not to mention the crazy shift pattern. Disaster waiting to happen.
I keep thinking about getting a job on the buses for stagecoach but I keep hearing these horror stories about shift patterns and I can't find any reliable sources who know how they work so I'm just putting it off for now
Where i work, company policy is we can work for a max of 13 days on the trot, then we must have at least 1 full day off..... If we do a basic week, it's only 4x 12hr shifts (inc unpaid breaks) and every 3 weeks, we get a 6 day weekend. Many of our rotas, you do either, super earlies (3am start), mids (7 or 8am starts) or like myself, lates, most of which are 12pm or 1pm (ish) starts. Getting your body clock to work either earlies or lates permanently helps prevent driver fatigue.
Excellent and very thought provoking video Shaun especially in light of the tragedy in Coventry. I retired yesterday (7/11/18) after 49 years as a Busworker including 32 years as a trade union representative (representing Anton amongst others) and am very keen about drivers' hours especially rest periods between duties as I feel the 8 and a half hour rule (3 times a week) is totally inadequate given what a driver has to do in that time. Get themselves off home, unwind, sleep, have breakfast, travel to work, etc. I always aimed for a maximum of 11 hours off between shifts to give the driver some sort of life. I know that some drivers spoil themselves be swapping duties and thus reducing their rest periods but they have to be protected from themselves and safety has to be paramount which you so wisely refer to. Keep up the good work with the videos. You and Anton will fill a void that is missing now I have departed the industry.
Spot on. Drivers have to be awake and alert, but the companies don't consider this when allocating shifts. Their only consideration is if it's legal. It's the drivers responsibility to make sure they're fit for work. But then that means if we call in we lose pay. Also like you say, if we say we're tired the company doesn't really accept that. Even though a tired driver is a pretty serious safety issue!
Got a duty today, 7am drive until 1120am then hour break. Then 1211pm drive until 6.15pm then finish. It makes you so tired. That's the equiv to driving from where I live in Cornwall to Cumbria without stopping. Sometimes I'll do this 3-4 times a week. It's pretty shit!
So I work for stagecoach South and had exactly the same problems where the Rota I was on at my depot was knackering to the point where I was about to hand my notice in but we both spoke to each other about it and I'm happy to say that we reached a mutual agreement that solved it by switching me to a new Rota.... if the hours aren't for you then that's fair enough. All I can say is that I'm extremely grateful to work for a depot who's management actually gives a shit about it's drivers!
@@paulbushell451 Put in a request for the rota that best suits you always it might be months before you get a place there but your time comes. After I passed my bus test I was city spare and did a bit of everything until I figured out what suits me best and choose that rota spoke to my manager he put me on the list and asked if I wanted an interim rota but I declined and stuck to City spare for 3 months until I got my rota. Honestly Bus driving is decent you just have to play the game sometimes and put your foot down with control office I've done HGV too and both are good but Buses are easier and there is always money on tap if you want Overtime.
Great topic to make people aware of. I was really shocked how much worse the Australian fatigue laws were compared to the EU laws (12H drive time over 17H spread - min 7H between shifts). We're still on physical log books here and they pass responsibility on to the driver by writing across the page "Do not drive if you are impaired by fatigue". Yeah right. "Hey boss feeling a bit tired today so I wont be coming into work"..... this is why the LAW needs to tighten up because if it's legal operators will require it. Keep up the great work
Well said Shaun. Bus drivers need to get lots of rest. They do a great job at keeping people safe. So they need to have a day off to chill & relax. I know some bus drivers & sometimes they look really knackered. So when I get off the bus I always give them a cerial or biscuit bar & of its a hot day i give them a bottle of water.
They look really knackered because they are =) It is not uncommon to be out of the house for 12 - 14 hours a day, leaves little to no time for a family life or even to sleep. It is somewhat depressing to take people to work in the morning (having already been working 3 hours) and to take them home at night and still have a few hours left on your shift :D
Absolutely spot on, The duties should be 2 week of early’s , 3 weeks of middles, 1 week of lates, Just so there is some normality and driver can at least have a good rest, a lot of people don’t understand the hours bus drivers have to do, driver fatigue is worse when you have splits. I would say Fatigue is the biggest reason drivers have accidents, but those sitting in Nice warm offices don’t give a dame and when you voice your concerns they don’t give two ####s, allong as it works on paper then they don’t care, I would say this is a big problem in the bus driver industry
I completely agree driving something that's larger and heavier that a car ( even some cases same size as a house ) can be stressful as not only you have to worry about yourself as a bus driver but you have to worry about the passengers and other road users, cyclist and pedestrians as well as the road conditions and the weather and if you add all that together that makes the bus driver's job really stressful not to mention that some passengers can be damn right rude ( like you might have a Karen boarding the bus swearing etc ) and I do appreciate the amazing work that bus drivers do on the daily basis despite what I just said and what you said in the video and I'm ALWAYS nice and polite to the driver and help them out like one time a bus driver got lost and there was a language problem so I showed him where he needed to go on Google maps on my phone and he realized his mistake got the bus on the right route
Biggest issue is passengers believe me a Bus on all season tyres (they all have AS tyres) handle bad weather better than your or my car I know from experience by the way. Bus driving is easy almost too easy the hard part is the passengers and agro from car drivers who believe they are of higher importance than a vehicle with up to 103 passengers.
Bus drivers have been shafted for years, and we are sick of it now. The EC rules are not much better now. I have worked the seven and six rota for years.
Spot on ,i drive buses in edinburgh and i agree,at the end of the day your just a number,too bad if you have personel problems,its the same all over,profits first,good on you
I have worked on the buses for 10 years, now two of the biggest operators in the UK have been bought by foreign investors and my depot is intentionally making the job harder. The industry needs better regulating
I have come to the conclusion that the bus industry has abused the leeway given to it in the form of Domestic Rules and that for safety sake buses should be on the tachograph rules that hgv also has. I also think that the shortage of drivers would be solved by paying better wages.
It's a hard one to call sometimes mate, I just wish that the gap between working hours was all as one! Its sometimes hard to explain to people that a lorry carrying beds can only be on the road for 4.5 hours but a double decker with 70 passengers can be on the road for 5 hours! its crazy. The wages are decent depending on where you work but it would help the shortages of drivers. who now wants to work all unsocial hours for (in some places) £9ph its crazy. My opinion it would be a min of £12
Agreed. Though it is a hard one to call. Operationally if driver cost goes up profit margin goes down or customer price goes up - either way it has a negative effect on business viability. I drive charter coaches for an owner operator in Australia and if he paid me more I'd lose my job because the business would fold!
The law changed to return to the old days of long bus and coach journeys unsplit with no tachograph onboard to record any of the journey would be a highly dangeous move. Johnson better not think about changing the law back.
Buses get away with everything , thats why after passing I had 2nd thoughts , cut up the Licences up , not worth it , Driver responsibility always . Tacho is on coaches, HGV , bus companies just change the Bus number , to get out of the EU regs. Tottally agree with all youve said .
Hi, I recently found your channel and am really enjoying your content. I particularly like this vid highlighting the rules bus drivers work to. I was a bus driver in South London for 13 years but around 3 years ago moved onto work on HGV's. It always amazes me the difference in working regs the 2 industries have. Tho I tended not to work my rest days the biggest gripe I had was that you could be behind the wheel for up to 5.5 hours before a break. Very few of our duties ran that long but for the ones that did, despite having stand time either end of the route, with traffic delays you could end up being in and out pretty much for the entire stint of that duty. When you see signs on the motorway telling car drivers to take a break after 2 hours of driving you have to wonder why is deemed fine for a bus driver, responsible for up to 70 passengers to drive for over twice that amount of time and not be fatigued. Keep up the good work, look forward to future vids 😁👍
I work as a bus driver in America. I don’t work 7 days a week. I only work 5 days with 2 days off. The fatigue is Brutal at times. I worked shifts with 8.5 hours of rest in between, we are unionized and therefore if we don’t come in do to fatigue it’s marked as an event and we keep our jobs. I hear you the fatigue is a problem for all bus driver.
Been there and done it but little else pays better if you want quick money, 4 digits every week is mad I've moved on to semis or articulated lorries as they're called in the UK and I'm honestly considering going back to buses for the better money.
Nice video. I am a bus driver It’s a difficult one. The issue with the job you have to be on the ball 100% of the time. Lots of other jobs you can relax for time to time. I do really enjoy the job having said all that 😃
The industry needs a complete overhaul regards drivers hours,its all about providing a bus service with the least amount of drivers & buses,maximizing profits.Hence why there is a massive shortage of drivers. Then we have the zero hours contract which many companies use,inc mine,should be made illegal,dangerous dangerous practice
A painful truth. To be bluntly honest, one of the things that could be done is to put clippies back on to take the fare-collection and "policing" the bus back off the driver and let the driver drive.
You hit the nail on the head, i have been driving buses for 4 years and fatigue and crap shift times and changeovers are a major problem. No support from management, your a number a robot and not important. High driver turnover is almost an industry standard, the solution, train more drivers, not try and keep the ones you have. Its an easy come easy go industry, drivers are expendable and will take the blame for everything. You have an accident its your fault etc etc. Bus companies will never back the driver. Your a number and a bum (literally) to put on a seat.
Two things can be done. One increase recovery time at end of run. This will help in keeping pace with routes and safety also will literally provide a minibreak for the driver. Two make split shifts mandatory with at least one hour break for lunch and washrooms.
Its not just mentally exhausting but has negative effects on physical health, such as dehydration as stopping for bathroom break during run can be difficult if dont want to run late as well as vibration on bus increases risk of health problems.
Most commonly I drive 2 5 hour halves with a 90 minute break and a 9.5-11 hour rest period and it can be highly exhausting especially driving in a city like Sheffield
Good mental agility is what's required for this type of role and I've been doing it for almost 20 years, both as a bus mechanic and as a driver. I ended up on anti-depressants for 3 years cause it got to me badly. I was even suicidal at one point. The public and the muppets on the road completely drain you.
It’s a shame that contacting your employer, as a professional driver, and telling them you are unfit to drive due to fatigue is seen as a poor excuse. You have high levels of responsibility and are trusted to make decisions at work, yet probably one of the most important safety decisions you’ll make declaring yourself unfit to drive is not acceptable in your employers eyes.
Important you mention this because if a bus driver has a serious crash and then has to attend a court hearing, no Judge in the land would accept the driver's explanation of being tired. The Judge would state the fact you are a professional driver and therefore should have known better but you continued to operate that vehicle knowing full well you were unfit through tiredness, and as a result, someone has been killed. The Judge would throw the book at you and the company would wash their hands. The job sucks.
Good video, I'm a new driver, just finished with my mentor and I'll be driving alone from tomorrow. Even with my mentor last week I was bloody tired he had to drive a round for me I was just exhausted, he won't be with me from now, wish me luck guys, I'm definitely getting enough sleep. I just think the paper work driving record curtailments play with your head more than anything, the driving is the easiest bit.
At my garage they have changed the duties where if you on a certain rota we have to learn 10 11 different routes, and sometimes you might do up to 3 different ones in one day which can be draning enough, and sometimes getting under 50 min break after driving like 5 hours straight then back on the road for another 4 or hours non stop, when I get home after my shift I could sleep from the afternoon up till next morning, as feel so drained from driving
30 minutes break often at stagecoach on a 10hr shift and if ya late they tell you to take a steady walk to the bus encouraging you to make passengers wait and be late to swap drivers or tell you to sit in the cab at 27 mins but don't set off straight away truths
Here in Sydney recently a bus driver killed two men on a scooter. He was on his phone while driving. Also recently in another part of Sydney a man was crossing the road, the bus was turning BUT the man had a green to cross and the driver had a green light, the man who was hit died.
Hi. Just to confirm your first point regarding rest period. The example you gave would not be acceptable under domestic driving rules (Passenger) as the 24 hour period must be within the 2 week period. All weeks in domestic driving are fixed, 00:00 Monday to 23:59 Sunday. The example you gave would be OK if the 24 hour period was on week 1 going into Monday week 2. ALso this can really only happen once as the work pattern moves from early to late, it's not really possible to sustain this in a work pattern. It's very important a driver is well rested and an operator has responsibility in the too (proper work pattern). Current domestic driving hours do not provide proper protection of the driver, nor does the Working Time Directive. It's possible to work over 150 hours per week and stay with the domestic driving hours, there is no maximum for a two week period unlike EU where there is (90 hours). PCV Drivers are critical to the UK economy, keep up the good work. Great video.
5years later it's still the fecking same Lately our duty hours have got longer with almost 6hr part shifts and a 5hr shift. But they hide it with driving time with layovers that you'll never see as always in late with traffic and hassle until you leave Used to be nigh on 100 miles driving a day but more like 130+ miles a day average now 4 day rota 39hour week yet WITHOUT overtime getting 47hrs of work on rota
I am a trainee bus driver. I have the same feeling that it is exhausting. However I heard that if you work as a driver for 3 years after that you can apply to become a bus driver instructor. You do not work as much and you are only dealing with new staff as opposed to public. I would give that a try.
How about they get rid of the mixed shifts & have drivers on set shifts. Early shift drivers, mid shift drivers & late shift drivers. That way, the drivers body clock will also adjust & they will be less tired going forward. Run that past the cowboys that run yorkshire tiger bus company
Is this still the case? I know this was 2 years ago. I've just gotten a job with stagecoach and I start in September but I have 4 children. I dont want to spend all my time working and missing out on seeing them :/
How are you finding it ? I like the idea of becoming a bus driver as enjoy driving but a work/life balance is far more important to me these days than how much money I can make with overtime. My mentality is is work to live, not live to work.
Certain operates have a specfic agreement between themselves and scheduling most companies have the ~ Maximum Piece Platform (How long your first and second half can be). Its normally between 4hr 30 and 5hr 10 minutes. So if your doing a normal 5 day duty First Half 5hr 10 mins Meal break 45 minutes Second half 3hrs The desk isnt going to know if your okay because they wont see you again until your sign off. And because desk men switch around all day not all of them will know whats wrong with every driver
When I was a bus driver in the UK it was not that there were not enough drivers, it was the company did not want enough, as it was cheaper to have driver do overtime. Reasons firstly they would not have the extra full NI to pay and second the extra pension payments. Not sure what its like now but I cant see it being that much different if you can get a truthful answer from the management. My last employment as a bus driver was on the Isle of Man, there they kept to the 13 day rule out of 14, but you could have Sunday off then work a full 13 days, which you might think the driver must have a day off (non of this 24 hour rule a DAY ) but the legal loophole meant the driver could work another 13 days and only then have day 14 off, so a total of 26 days, its not as bad as it sounds as everyday was a different duty and most of the shifts you were sat around for up to 8 hours out of 12 only going out morning and afternoon or a little longer if you had swimming buses. Yes sat on your backside all day but you are avoiding accidents not just driving Stay safe on your travels keep the videos coming :)
You didn’t go into details on the longer distance routes, but basically every time you see a destination such as ‘Whitby, then Scarborough’ or ‘Guisborough, for Middlesbrough’ as examples, they are done that way specifically to break up one long route to avoid EU rules and tachos.
How often are your hours that hard to the point you can get fatigued? In Victoria, Australia by law anyone driving trucks and buses can’t legally work more than 6 days straight.
My first ever digitacho card arrived in the post last month. The only thing the government spent money on to include with the card was a pamphlet on Tiredness, its effects on drivers and the importance of rest. The reason I've chosen trucking over buses is because I recognised the Tacho will make an effort to stop transport managers abusing my hours. Its only now that I've done my CPC and met some bus drivers I realise what an intuitive decision I've made. Regulation is some form of protection.
@@TheFlatCapBusDriver Strong willed isn't always enough :))) You know yourself you will get phone calls , texts on your day off, and when you are in getting your duty you get bombarded as well ! Even on your break when you check your phone you will see missed calls/texts asking for more, and more. While the money is good, it can be too easy to push too far
Im just in the training process and was learning about the tachograph when i come across your video. Is it still the same or has it changed. And also ia it the same for all bus companies
Well said! I'm a bus driver working under domestic rules I do lates all the time now so my rest periods are always really good bit I have done shifts in the past where I've had 8.5 hrs rest periods on a week of 10-16hr shifts... and it's mentally draining something needs done about it. Thankfully my company done away with the 2 shifts that were 16hr spread over start to finish even though it's the maximum spread over but they were brutal
One thing that I find confusing about the driving hours is the eu laws and the domestic laws as domestic laws state you can work for 5:30 before a 30 min brake and eu states it’s a 45 min brake after 4:30 hours of driving, why can this be one law for all drivers driving any distance
Those are pretty brutal hours. Working 7 days per week? What the hell is up with that? When are you supposed to get proper rest? Feels like bus companies are relying on a steady stream of new recruits to fill up the empty places left by people who have had enough of the job, or who died after falling asleep behind the wheel. Seems like a short-term strategy if there's not enough drivers in the first place.
Very important topic though I’m my personal experience the way our rotas work is that you’ll be on a week of earlies, next week maybe middles/semi lates, then week after will be lates so hours are not that bad for me.
The Flat Cap Bus Driver definitely.. it’s all automatic even as recently as Monday I needed a later shift as I was on earlies so I swapped with a driver and had to swap 4 days as the rota works out how much rest you need before shifts. On the other hand I have a mate who works for company in Birmingham (won’t name lol) he worked a semi late finishing about 10ish and they wanted him to come in 6am the next day!
We should drive buses using the same rules as HGV’s. They know that bus farers would rise, as bus companies would need more drivers to cover the same shifts.
That is shit pal,it is stressful you have big responsibilities driving a bus around the hours you work have shocked me btw I'm not a bus driver respect pal
You have hit the nail on the head with drivers hours, it’s an absolute joke. Our so called union build our rosta’s and majority of the sheets finish late & start early, with only 10 hours between shifts - I can’t wind down after a shift, because I have to go straight too bed. My routine is in the morning, I tend to get up 1 1/2 hours before I start, so I can get breakfast, shower & travel to work. Like you, we work 5 over 7 - But our days off are split & rarely together, so it doesn’t feel like a day off when you do have a day off.
4:16 actually one must not be obliged to be able to sleep. A sleep disorder may easily occur under stress or fatigue. Then if the driver could not get rest yes that driver should notify being unable to take the shift, for everyone's sake.
After 10 years of driving, my opinion is that the industry is dying, it now constantly needs government handouts to stay afloat, roads can get so busy its genuinely a nightmare to drive and customers and the company treat you as just part of the bus, look at the wages,that shows proves it.
Fatigue management obviously doesn't exists in England. In Australia each state has their own laws, with driving laws. In Queensland we can only drive for a Maximum of 6 days, and a maximum of 10 hours in a 24 hour period, and no more than 5 1/4 hours without at least a 30 minute break. We are under the same laws as heavy vehicle drivers, remember and we carry the most valuable cargo people and we need to be alert and not over tired.
Honestly it's a great job and im sure you will enjoy it. Find a balance of what works for you and the commitments you have outside of work. I'm certain you can make it work!! 👍🏻
The worst thing about E.U legislation, is a driver needs to juggle two type of laws drivers hours and working time directive. And this alone is stressfull you basically are counting down your time left and thinking ahead where can I pull in for 45mins.
Hi mate. I was a driver over 10 years ago. I’m looking to get back into it possibly in London. When I did it 10 years ago in Manchester there were always wanting us to do overtime but it wasn’t an issue to refuse it. I can it you can still easily refuse the overtime if you want to?
hi mate, good luck getting back into the industry! As always overtime is always there and they will always ask you, if you just say no then they will move onto the next person to ask. If they are really short may even offer a pay increase for that one particular shift haha
Worse again is when you have longer routes that come under EU rules so you have a shift with 3 routes under domestic rules, then digi card or chart in and switch, bringing you under EU rules for that 24 hour period and week/fortnight block for rest purposes with your domestic rules driving counted as other work. Makes it a lot more compicated to comply correctly when mixed. EU rules are better in the sense that a normal weekly rest period is 45 hours and a reduced 24 hours, essentially giving you a min of 2 day block off every other week worst case. Domestic rules are skirting on the side of driver fatigue as they are written.
If you're tired sick or whatever if you're not able to drive a bus they can't make you drive because if something happens you can sue the company it's different over here in America I'm not risking my CDL for anybody just say no
Im getting into the industry what are some of the other laws that you talk about beside the Domestic. If you did a brief video on just a short explanation on what they are and mean.
Rediculous and outrageous, had no idea that was the state of bus regs. I have questioned the rules ive seen being worked by drivers before. Personally hold class2 HGV myself and WILL not drive when unfit and have lost work because of it - truth of it, I am responsible entirely if I kill someone on the road, I will be taken to court.
Extended Bodies for Most of the Buses Much as I am not comfortable to ask the depot why they stopped running the London Suburban Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Gardner 6LX and Gardner 6LXC Diesel Engine Olympian ECW’s on routes N26, 30, 121, 230, 271, 349, N279 And 158 why can’t we make the same make of the Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Gardner 6LX and Gardner 6LXC Diesel Engine Olympian ECW Buses but Modernise the insides of these Buses. Also make it low floor up and down and also extend the middle body part of these vehicles a little bit more so there will be more space for the wheelchair users. By the way, if you could remake and Modernise these vehicles could they also make it into a Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Gardner 6LX and Gardner 6LXC Diesel Engine Olympian ECW Version’s that if it will be possible and to Modernise the insides of these Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Gardner 6LX and Gardner 6LXC Diesel Engine Olympian ECW’s make it low floor up and down and also extend the middle body part of these vehicles a Little bit more so there will be more space and even a London Suburban Scania N230UD Enviro 400 MMC and also extend the middle body part of these vehicles a little bit more. Why couldn’t we have those London Suburban Buses Pale red on the top roof Pale red again on the top middle Milk Chocolate brown on the middle Creamy white on the Bottom Middle and Milk Chocolate Brown again on the Bottom on most of those kind of those Particular Double Decker Vehicles. Could you put the Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox in the Scania N230UD Enviro 400 MMC and also put the Loud 3-Speed Voith Diwa Gearbox in the Volvo TD102KF Engine East Lancs Olympus and also extend the middle body part of these vehicles a little bit more and also turn most of them to a London Suburban Buses. By the way could you also make the routes N26, 349, 121, N279 and 271 into a London Suburban Buses and have a mixture of a Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Scania N230UD Enviro 400 MMC and Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Gardner 6LX and Gardner 6LXC Diesel Engine Olympian ECW Version’s. Could they also transfer the Arriva Bus Depots from Hackney to Stagecoach company so they can replace all the Arriva buses so that all of them can go to Birmingham and Leeds and they can be replaced by Stagecoach Loud 3-Speed Voith Diwa Gearbox Volvo TD102KF Engine East Lancs Olympus and also Extend the Middle body part of these Vehicles and that includes A Mixture of a Stagecoach Loud 3-Speed Voith Diwa Gearbox Volvo TD102KF, Gardner 6LXC and Gardner 6LXCT Engine Northern Counties Palatine One and that Includes a Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Scania N230UD Enviro 400 MMC Vehicles A Little Bit More. Can Arriva London Bus Company’s Replace Most of their Wight Buses so they can also transfer them to Birmingham and Also Manchester so they can be Replaced by Loud 3-Speed ZF Ecomat Gearboxes Volvo D10A Engine East Lancs Olympus and also Extend the Middle body part of these Vehicles A Little Bit More Thank You Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Much. Oh buy the way could the bus Factory Companies also Make More of Those Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Gardner 6LX and Gardner 6LXC Diesel engine Olympian ECW Vehicles And that also includes Those Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Cummins L10 Enviro 400 MMC And also Extend the Middle Body part of those Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Gardner 6LX and Gardner 6LXC Diesel Engine Olympian ECW Vehicles and the Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Cummins L10 Enviro 400 MMC Vehicles and that also includes The Loud 3-Speed ZF Ecomat Gearboxes Volvo D10A Engine East Lancs Olympus A Little Bit More And Paint Those 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Gardner 6LX Enviro 400 MMC Vehicles and also those Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Gardner 6LX and Gardner 6LXC Diesel engine Olympian ECW Vehicles and that also includes The Northern Counties Palatine One with a Volvo TD102KF, Gardner 6LXC and Gardner 6LXCT Diesel engines with a Loud 3-Speed Voith Diwa Gearboxes and The Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Scania N230UD Enviro 400 MMC Vehicles and also The Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Gardner 6LX Enviro 400 MMC Vehicles to the Grey Green Colours Just Like The Other Original Scania Grey Green on the Bus Route 313, 125, 168, 167, 275, 24, 20, and the 103, If all The Leyland Titan B15’s are Fully Red and even Mostly Red, could they also Repaint All of The Leyland Titan B15’s into Grey Green Colours Just Like The Other Original Scania Grey Green on the Bus Route 313 so they can Reuse them for Only Every 6 and a Half Months and also Reuse them on those Rail Replacement London Bus Routes if that will Be Alright for Only Just Every 6 and a Half Months and also Reuse Those Buses Only on the London Bus Routes witch are The 341, N41, 34, 123, N29, 149, 221, N73, 121, 86, 30, 262, 147, 396, 41, N26 so Please make sure that the builders can do as they are told!!!! And Please do something about these Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Important Professional Ideas Please Please Prime Minister and also Includes the Mayor of London.😉😉😉😉😉😄😄
Don't just go home and put the television on run your self a very nice peaceful bath or shower and listen to some nice relaxing music and may be have some very nice scented candles a light it will help your stress tto go away or speak to your depot manager if you still do t feel right at work such as chest pains or go for a coffee break and something to eat
I’m thinking of becoming a bus driver and it would be a contact for a min of 47 hours a week and I’m a full time carer do you think this is a good move for me because the money would be a big help? Thanks
Hi lee, thank you for your comment. I couldn't not say if I think it will be a good move for you. Its a completely different Job to being a carer (I've done both) and its comes with a lot of different kinds of stress! The money would be a big help for you but 47 hours a week is killing! I work 39.5 and at times I'm knackered. I have the option of overtime if I want to. I would look to start at 37.5 hours as it eases you into the Job so you get a feeling for it and you'll enjoy it. Over time I've noticed the people who work the most seem to hate the job. anyways mate please message me on facebook if you would like any help with finding a bus job. Im more than happy to share my advice! take care Shaun
Ouch, is it decent pay?. You hear bus drivers earning £30,000PA. But the stress of everything involved in your job - ensuring the saftey of all your passengers, idiot drivers.
@@Thatonechristian24 I'd say average wage is around 24k you can earn more as theres plenty of overtime available in most bus companies, as far as stress goes the job is as stressful as you make it. Of course there is going be ignorant customers but a smile from a driver is better than trying to argue with them. Especially if you want to enjoy your job.
It's catch 22, Theres not enough drivers because of the mediocre wages so therefore bus drivers are forced to do overtime just to make ends meet. If bus drivers were paid anything near train drivers wages people would not leave...the hours, expectations and unhealthy life of a driver almost guarantees ill health before retirement. The whole industry needs a serious wakeup.
You've touched exactly what's going on in the bus industry Shaun!
It needs to be addressed and drivers need their voices heard...!!! ➡️ 🗣👂
Why do you cover up your company name when there are people who know who you are working for. Then you got sharn who isn't scared about showing who he works for.
@@2009dannyboy1 And the logos are all over internet, Some yt's don't hide logos
@@plaguemaster308 I totally understand that you can find the company name online. It's just why does anton go to the trouble of hiding the bus company name and logo??
It’s down to the driver and the company to have an agreement and to ensure that all company policies are adhered to.
Drivers who choose to cover up logos are safer as they do not jeopardise their job.
I’m just really lucky in some respects :)
@@TheFlatCapBusDriver Yes you are very lucky.
Appreciate you putting this video online. Totally agree with you about the points raised. It’s important to manage your health especially when having a job that has huge responsibilities not just for yourself, but for passengers and other road users/people.
I didn`t know that British bus drivers work so much. In my company Carris, the lisbon bus operator we work in max 9 hours per duty with 2 hours pause, work 6 days and rest 2 days. But most of services is 7h30 of driving and rest until next day.
The salary is less, around 1000€ per month but it`s a good value for our country and it`s a lot better compared with other bus companies.
You can put in 80-90 hour weeks obviously a lot of it is not behind the wheel but the UK bus industry is very reliant on overtime. If you want to you can take home easily £1100 a week working the mad hours.
I’m 30years driving buses in Dublin . Your hours are savage . Max we do is 7.38 driving per day . We work 39 hours over five weeks with a long and short weekend every five weeks ..tnks god we are not privatized
39 hours over 5 weeks ? how do you survive
@@mrr-ee6ui He means over 5 weeks he works 39 hours per week on his rota.
You think what you do is savage mate? I drove buses in Glasgow and you worked on average 10 to 12 hrs a day 5 days but because the pay was shit, you’d be out 6 maybe 7 days. Finish late day before day off, and early start day going back. Being a bus driver is such a hard life
@@jaimieneilson5378 I used to do 80-90 hours a week when I was saving for a deposit on a house £900-£1000 take home every week. My rota hours were around 43 over 5 but hammered the overtime was decent. Drive artics now but if I ever need money fast I'll be straight back to the buses. Shame it sucked in your area.
I find the hardest swing is when you finish at 1am are back in for like a 10 start and work a 11hr shift but then start at 5am the 3rd day your body is goosed. The biggest challenge is the lack of respect from other road users if I am honest, at times I think my indicators are connected to car accelerators and roundabouts OMG it might be give way to the right but it's also give way to vehicles already in the roundabout not speed up to cause a problem because you're coming off a blind slip road from the right, news flash buses aren't as fast as cars when getting away and require time
Well said. I don't drive a bus but I have friends that do, and as someone who cannot drive for medical reasons I am totally reliant of buses. Four big things for me:
1. Maximum driving period should be reduced from 5.5 hours to 4.5 hours with a half hour "emergency" period if needed. Therefore 5 hours in exceptional circumstances.
2. Maximum daily limit of 9 Hours (two 4.5 hour stints) with a minimum legal break of one hour
3. Minimum 10 hours rest between shifts., For those drivers a five day week 12 hours minimum rest between shifts
4. Maximum of a 50 hour working week spread over four or five days out of seven
Until something similar to the above is implemented, drivers will continue to drive when they are possibly not fit to do so. I know that it may add to the shortage of staff but what price safety? Also knowing that the new restrictions are in place may encourage more people to drive buses.
You're essentially asking for bus drivers to be on EU driver rules or tacho rules. Good luck It would cost the government and bus companies a fortune.
Making us bus drivers work 7 days in a row is barbaric and inhumane especially with the ridiculous hours that we do, not to mention the crazy shift pattern. Disaster waiting to happen.
I keep thinking about getting a job on the buses for stagecoach but I keep hearing these horror stories about shift patterns and I can't find any reliable sources who know how they work so I'm just putting it off for now
Where i work, company policy is we can work for a max of 13 days on the trot, then we must have at least 1 full day off..... If we do a basic week, it's only 4x 12hr shifts (inc unpaid breaks) and every 3 weeks, we get a 6 day weekend.
Many of our rotas, you do either, super earlies (3am start), mids (7 or 8am starts) or like myself, lates, most of which are 12pm or 1pm (ish) starts.
Getting your body clock to work either earlies or lates permanently helps prevent driver fatigue.
Excellent and very thought provoking video Shaun especially in light of the tragedy in Coventry. I retired yesterday (7/11/18) after 49 years as a Busworker including 32 years as a trade union representative (representing Anton amongst others) and am very keen about drivers' hours especially rest periods between duties as I feel the 8 and a half hour rule (3 times a week) is totally inadequate given what a driver has to do in that time. Get themselves off home, unwind, sleep, have breakfast, travel to work, etc. I always aimed for a maximum of 11 hours off between shifts to give the driver some sort of life. I know that some drivers spoil themselves be swapping duties and thus reducing their rest periods but they have to be protected from themselves and safety has to be paramount which you so wisely refer to. Keep up the good work with the videos. You and Anton will fill a void that is missing now I have departed the industry.
Spot on.
Drivers have to be awake and alert, but the companies don't consider this when allocating shifts. Their only consideration is if it's legal.
It's the drivers responsibility to make sure they're fit for work. But then that means if we call in we lose pay. Also like you say, if we say we're tired the company doesn't really accept that. Even though a tired driver is a pretty serious safety issue!
Got a duty today, 7am drive until 1120am then hour break. Then 1211pm drive until 6.15pm then finish. It makes you so tired. That's the equiv to driving from where I live in Cornwall to Cumbria without stopping. Sometimes I'll do this 3-4 times a week. It's pretty shit!
So I work for stagecoach South and had exactly the same problems where the Rota I was on at my depot was knackering to the point where I was about to hand my notice in but we both spoke to each other about it and I'm happy to say that we reached a mutual agreement that solved it by switching me to a new Rota.... if the hours aren't for you then that's fair enough. All I can say is that I'm extremely grateful to work for a depot who's management actually gives a shit about it's drivers!
Just starting this journey. Informative for the future.
@@paulbushell451 Put in a request for the rota that best suits you always it might be months before you get a place there but your time comes. After I passed my bus test I was city spare and did a bit of everything until I figured out what suits me best and choose that rota spoke to my manager he put me on the list and asked if I wanted an interim rota but I declined and stuck to City spare for 3 months until I got my rota. Honestly Bus driving is decent you just have to play the game sometimes and put your foot down with control office I've done HGV too and both are good but Buses are easier and there is always money on tap if you want Overtime.
Great topic to make people aware of. I was really shocked how much worse the Australian fatigue laws were compared to the EU laws (12H drive time over 17H spread - min 7H between shifts). We're still on physical log books here and they pass responsibility on to the driver by writing across the page "Do not drive if you are impaired by fatigue". Yeah right. "Hey boss feeling a bit tired today so I wont be coming into work"..... this is why the LAW needs to tighten up because if it's legal operators will require it.
Keep up the great work
Well said Shaun. Bus drivers need to get lots of rest. They do a great job at keeping people safe. So they need to have a day off to chill & relax. I know some bus drivers & sometimes they look really knackered. So when I get off the bus I always give them a cerial or biscuit bar & of its a hot day i give them a bottle of water.
They look really knackered because they are =) It is not uncommon to be out of the house for 12 - 14 hours a day, leaves little to no time for a family life or even to sleep. It is somewhat depressing to take people to work in the morning (having already been working 3 hours) and to take them home at night and still have a few hours left on your shift :D
Absolutely spot on,
The duties should be 2 week of early’s , 3 weeks of middles, 1 week of lates, Just so there is some normality and driver can at least have a good rest, a lot of people don’t understand the hours bus drivers have to do, driver fatigue is worse when you have splits. I would say Fatigue is the biggest reason drivers have accidents, but those sitting in Nice warm offices don’t give a dame and when you voice your concerns they don’t give two ####s, allong as it works on paper then they don’t care, I would say this is a big problem in the bus driver industry
I completely agree driving something that's larger and heavier that a car ( even some cases same size as a house ) can be stressful as not only you have to worry about yourself as a bus driver but you have to worry about the passengers and other road users, cyclist and pedestrians as well as the road conditions and the weather and if you add all that together that makes the bus driver's job really stressful not to mention that some passengers can be damn right rude ( like you might have a Karen boarding the bus swearing etc ) and I do appreciate the amazing work that bus drivers do on the daily basis despite what I just said and what you said in the video and I'm ALWAYS nice and polite to the driver and help them out like one time a bus driver got lost and there was a language problem so I showed him where he needed to go on Google maps on my phone and he realized his mistake got the bus on the right route
Biggest issue is passengers believe me a Bus on all season tyres (they all have AS tyres) handle bad weather better than your or my car I know from experience by the way. Bus driving is easy almost too easy the hard part is the passengers and agro from car drivers who believe they are of higher importance than a vehicle with up to 103 passengers.
Bus drivers have been shafted for years, and we are sick of it now. The EC rules are not much better now.
I have worked the seven and six rota for years.
A really good video about a very important topic that does needs addressing.
Spot on ,i drive buses in edinburgh and i agree,at the end of the day your just a number,too bad if you have personel problems,its the same all over,profits first,good on you
I have worked on the buses for 10 years, now two of the biggest operators in the UK have been bought by foreign investors and my depot is intentionally making the job harder. The industry needs better regulating
I have come to the conclusion that the bus industry has abused the leeway given to it in the form of Domestic Rules and that for safety sake buses should be on the tachograph rules that hgv also has. I also think that the shortage of drivers would be solved by paying better wages.
It's a hard one to call sometimes mate, I just wish that the gap between working hours was all as one! Its sometimes hard to explain to people that a lorry carrying beds can only be on the road for 4.5 hours but a double decker with 70 passengers can be on the road for 5 hours! its crazy.
The wages are decent depending on where you work but it would help the shortages of drivers. who now wants to work all unsocial hours for (in some places) £9ph its crazy. My opinion it would be a min of £12
Agreed. Though it is a hard one to call. Operationally if driver cost goes up profit margin goes down or customer price goes up - either way it has a negative effect on business viability. I drive charter coaches for an owner operator in Australia and if he paid me more I'd lose my job because the business would fold!
The law changed to return to the old days of long bus and coach journeys unsplit with no tachograph onboard to record any of the journey would be a highly dangeous move. Johnson better not think about changing the law back.
Can you imagine pulling over... sorry you happy bunch of bus wankers but i need a 45
Buses get away with everything , thats why after passing I had 2nd thoughts , cut up the Licences up , not worth it , Driver responsibility always . Tacho is on coaches, HGV , bus companies just change the Bus number , to get out of the EU regs. Tottally agree with all youve said .
Hi, I recently found your channel and am really enjoying your content. I particularly like this vid highlighting the rules bus drivers work to.
I was a bus driver in South London for 13 years but around 3 years ago moved onto work on HGV's. It always amazes me the difference in working regs the 2 industries have. Tho I tended not to work my rest days the biggest gripe I had was that you could be behind the wheel for up to 5.5 hours before a break. Very few of our duties ran that long but for the ones that did, despite having stand time either end of the route, with traffic delays you could end up being in and out pretty much for the entire stint of that duty.
When you see signs on the motorway telling car drivers to take a break after 2 hours of driving you have to wonder why is deemed fine for a bus driver, responsible for up to 70 passengers to drive for over twice that amount of time and not be fatigued.
Keep up the good work, look forward to future vids 😁👍
Your videos are so informative, thanks so much, im currently training to be a bus driver 😅pray for me 🙏🏽get rest 💯
Don’t do it.
@@tonyleedham5462 I'm going to drive minibuses instead, less crazy I hope 🙏🏽just started bus school 🚸 🚍 praying I don't regret it 😥🤣
So what would you prefer to work as a night shift or day shift so which is is felling saffer for you nust idea as things around😮
I work as a bus driver in America. I don’t work 7 days a week. I only work 5 days with 2 days off. The fatigue is Brutal at times. I worked shifts with 8.5 hours of rest in between, we are unionized and therefore if we don’t come in do to fatigue it’s marked as an event and we keep our jobs. I hear you the fatigue is a problem for all bus driver.
Been there and done it but little else pays better if you want quick money, 4 digits every week is mad I've moved on to semis or articulated lorries as they're called in the UK and I'm honestly considering going back to buses for the better money.
Nice video. I am a bus driver
It’s a difficult one. The issue with the job you have to be on the ball 100% of the time. Lots of other jobs you can relax for time to time.
I do really enjoy the job having said all that 😃
I agree, with this job your walking on egg shells all the time and it's exhausting
I'm a bus driver too you made some excellent points on driver fatigue
Thank you for sharing this, bus drivers are under represented in our society and they should be rewarded fairly with rest and pay.
6:26 at this point I honestly thought you left the parking brake off 😂
Shaun I am a coach driver but I started on the buses and I have to agree with everything you have said
The industry needs a complete overhaul regards drivers hours,its all about providing a bus service with the least amount of drivers & buses,maximizing profits.Hence why there is a massive shortage of drivers.
Then we have the zero hours contract which many companies use,inc mine,should be made illegal,dangerous dangerous practice
A painful truth. To be bluntly honest, one of the things that could be done is to put clippies back on to take the fare-collection and "policing" the bus back off the driver and let the driver drive.
More and more responsibility has been put on the bus drivers.
I love your vids. I live in Newark nj USA ! I got my commercial license and I’ll be starting a new job on Monday next week !
You hit the nail on the head, i have been driving buses for 4 years and fatigue and crap shift times and changeovers are a major problem. No support from management, your a number a robot and not important. High driver turnover is almost an industry standard, the solution, train more drivers, not try and keep the ones you have. Its an easy come easy go industry, drivers are expendable and will take the blame for everything. You have an accident its your fault etc etc. Bus companies will never back the driver. Your a number and a bum (literally) to put on a seat.
Two things can be done. One increase recovery time at end of run. This will help in keeping pace with routes and safety also will literally provide a minibreak for the driver. Two make split shifts mandatory with at least one hour break for lunch and washrooms.
Its not just mentally exhausting but has negative effects on physical health, such as dehydration as stopping for bathroom break during run can be difficult if dont want to run late as well as vibration on bus increases risk of health problems.
Most commonly I drive 2 5 hour halves with a 90 minute break and a 9.5-11 hour rest period and it can be highly exhausting especially driving in a city like Sheffield
Its killer isn’t it mate! I’m glad you agree though 😂
As a bus driver for 30 years it was bad then just like now
Good mental agility is what's required for this type of role and I've been doing it for almost 20 years, both as a bus mechanic and as a driver. I ended up on anti-depressants for 3 years cause it got to me badly. I was even suicidal at one point. The public and the muppets on the road completely drain you.
I've hit the brick wall mentally with this job, it's an assault you're mental health.
It’s a shame that contacting your employer, as a professional driver, and telling them you are unfit to drive due to fatigue is seen as a poor excuse. You have high levels of responsibility and are trusted to make decisions at work, yet probably one of the most important safety decisions you’ll make declaring yourself unfit to drive is not acceptable in your employers eyes.
Important you mention this because if a bus driver has a serious crash and then has to attend a court hearing, no Judge in the land would accept the driver's explanation of being tired. The Judge would state the fact you are a professional driver and therefore should have known better but you continued to operate that vehicle knowing full well you were unfit through tiredness, and as a result, someone has been killed. The Judge would throw the book at you and the company would wash their hands. The job sucks.
I believe in the train driving industry they are allowed to take whats known as a fatigue day from time to time. Should be the same for bus drivers!
The 40 min break when u come off for break should be a hour min.
Good video, I'm a new driver, just finished with my mentor and I'll be driving alone from tomorrow. Even with my mentor last week I was bloody tired he had to drive a round for me I was just exhausted, he won't be with me from now, wish me luck guys, I'm definitely getting enough sleep. I just think the paper work driving record curtailments play with your head more than anything, the driving is the easiest bit.
Out of curiosity, are you still with the bus company and if so how’s been going for you? Thanks
At my garage they have changed the duties where if you on a certain rota we have to learn 10 11 different routes, and sometimes you might do up to 3 different ones in one day which can be draning enough, and sometimes getting under 50 min break after driving like 5 hours straight then back on the road for another 4 or hours non stop, when I get home after my shift I could sleep from the afternoon up till next morning, as feel so drained from driving
30 minutes break often at stagecoach on a 10hr shift and if ya late they tell you to take a steady walk to the bus encouraging you to make passengers wait and be late to swap drivers or tell you to sit in the cab at 27 mins but don't set off straight away truths
driver fatigue sign at 4:00 says 2x a week and shows 3x a week lol
Here in Sydney recently a bus driver killed two men on a scooter. He was on his phone while driving. Also recently in another part of Sydney a man was crossing the road, the bus was turning BUT the man had a green to cross and the driver had a green light, the man who was hit died.
Hi. Just to confirm your first point regarding rest period. The example you gave would not be acceptable under domestic driving rules (Passenger) as the 24 hour period must be within the 2 week period. All weeks in domestic driving are fixed, 00:00 Monday to 23:59 Sunday. The example you gave would be OK if the 24 hour period was on week 1 going into Monday week 2. ALso this can really only happen once as the work pattern moves from early to late, it's not really possible to sustain this in a work pattern. It's very important a driver is well rested and an operator has responsibility in the too (proper work pattern). Current domestic driving hours do not provide proper protection of the driver, nor does the Working Time Directive. It's possible to work over 150 hours per week and stay with the domestic driving hours, there is no maximum for a two week period unlike EU where there is (90 hours). PCV Drivers are critical to the UK economy, keep up the good work. Great video.
5years later it's still the fecking same
Lately our duty hours have got longer with almost 6hr part shifts and a 5hr shift. But they hide it with driving time with layovers that you'll never see as always in late with traffic and hassle until you leave
Used to be nigh on 100 miles driving a day but more like 130+ miles a day average now
4 day rota 39hour week yet WITHOUT overtime getting 47hrs of work on rota
Tacagraph cards or something similiar for bus drivers will help.
Sorry 10 hrs a day 7 days a week, that's is scandalous.
I am a trainee bus driver. I have the same feeling that it is exhausting. However I heard that if you work as a driver for 3 years after that you can apply to become a bus driver instructor. You do not work as much and you are only dealing with new staff as opposed to public. I would give that a try.
Thanks could you make a video on Interview yes questions for new drivers what English and maths test we need to prepare for
How about they get rid of the mixed shifts & have drivers on set shifts. Early shift drivers, mid shift drivers & late shift drivers. That way, the drivers body clock will also adjust & they will be less tired going forward.
Run that past the cowboys that run yorkshire tiger bus company
Is this still the case? I know this was 2 years ago. I've just gotten a job with stagecoach and I start in September but I have 4 children. I dont want to spend all my time working and missing out on seeing them :/
Yes still exactly the same
How are you finding it ? I like the idea of becoming a bus driver as enjoy driving but a work/life balance is far more important to me these days than how much money I can make with overtime. My mentality is is work to live, not live to work.
Can I ask how you're getting on? I start with stagecoach next week but this video has scared the life out of me
Certain operates have a specfic agreement between themselves and scheduling most companies have the ~ Maximum Piece Platform (How long your first and second half can be). Its normally between 4hr 30 and 5hr 10 minutes. So if your doing a normal 5 day duty
First Half 5hr 10 mins
Meal break 45 minutes
Second half 3hrs
The desk isnt going to know if your okay because they wont see you again until your sign off. And because desk men switch around all day not all of them will know whats wrong with every driver
In New Zealand bus drivers max working time a day is 5&1/2 hours
When I was a bus driver in the UK it was not that there were not enough drivers, it was the company did not want enough, as it was cheaper to have driver do overtime. Reasons firstly they would not have the extra full NI to pay and second the extra pension payments. Not sure what its like now but I cant see it being that much different if you can get a truthful answer from the management.
My last employment as a bus driver was on the Isle of Man, there they kept to the 13 day rule out of 14, but you could have Sunday off then work a full 13 days, which you might think the driver must have a day off (non of this 24 hour rule a DAY
) but the legal loophole meant the driver could work another 13 days and only then have day 14 off, so a total of 26 days, its not as bad as it sounds as everyday was a different duty and most of the shifts you were sat around for up to 8 hours out of 12 only going out morning and afternoon or a little longer if you had swimming buses.
Yes sat on your backside all day but you are avoiding accidents not just driving
Stay safe on your travels keep the videos coming :)
Between managing cash and driving it's draining. It's a pity the union or companys doesn't do something.
Do coach drivers have the same hours rules as service bus drivers or are they more like HGV drivers with having to the tacho card?
Volvo B10M we’re different to domestic drivers as we have the digi card, so yeah, just like HGV drivers.
You didn’t go into details on the longer distance routes, but basically every time you see a destination such as ‘Whitby, then Scarborough’ or ‘Guisborough, for Middlesbrough’ as examples, they are done that way specifically to break up one long route to avoid EU rules and tachos.
How often are your hours that hard to the point you can get fatigued? In Victoria, Australia by law anyone driving trucks and buses can’t legally work more than 6 days straight.
My first ever digitacho card arrived in the post last month. The only thing the government spent money on to include with the card was a pamphlet on Tiredness, its effects on drivers and the importance of rest. The reason I've chosen trucking over buses is because I recognised the Tacho will make an effort to stop transport managers abusing my hours. Its only now that I've done my CPC and met some bus drivers I realise what an intuitive decision I've made. Regulation is some form of protection.
great comment, I think also it depends how easily you can be talked into working when you don't want to. be strong willed at all times :)
@@TheFlatCapBusDriver Strong willed isn't always enough :))) You know yourself you will get phone calls , texts on your day off, and when you are in getting your duty you get bombarded as well ! Even on your break when you check your phone you will see missed calls/texts asking for more, and more. While the money is good, it can be too easy to push too far
Very well said Shaun!
Thank you mate
Im just in the training process and was learning about the tachograph when i come across your video. Is it still the same or has it changed. And also ia it the same for all bus companies
Well said! I'm a bus driver working under domestic rules I do lates all the time now so my rest periods are always really good bit I have done shifts in the past where I've had 8.5 hrs rest periods on a week of 10-16hr shifts... and it's mentally draining something needs done about it. Thankfully my company done away with the 2 shifts that were 16hr spread over start to finish even though it's the maximum spread over but they were brutal
One thing that I find confusing about the driving hours is the eu laws and the domestic laws as domestic laws state you can work for 5:30 before a 30 min brake and eu states it’s a 45 min brake after 4:30 hours of driving, why can this be one law for all drivers driving any distance
I wish it was all the same mate :(
I definitely agree with this definitely cuz ive been in my local depot and seen some driver who looked knacked
Those are pretty brutal hours. Working 7 days per week? What the hell is up with that? When are you supposed to get proper rest?
Feels like bus companies are relying on a steady stream of new recruits to fill up the empty places left by people who have had enough of the job, or who died after falling asleep behind the wheel. Seems like a short-term strategy if there's not enough drivers in the first place.
Very important topic though I’m my personal experience the way our rotas work is that you’ll be on a week of earlies, next week maybe middles/semi lates, then week after will be lates so hours are not that bad for me.
That’s a good setup and makes it a little easier if you want to plan something🚌 some places I know have some right messing about with shifts
The Flat Cap Bus Driver definitely.. it’s all automatic even as recently as Monday I needed a later shift as I was on earlies so I swapped with a driver and had to swap 4 days as the rota works out how much rest you need before shifts. On the other hand I have a mate who works for company in Birmingham (won’t name lol) he worked a semi late finishing about 10ish and they wanted him to come in 6am the next day!
We should drive buses using the same rules as HGV’s. They know that bus farers would rise, as bus companies would need more drivers to cover the same shifts.
That is shit pal,it is stressful you have big responsibilities driving a bus around the hours you work have shocked me btw I'm not a bus driver respect pal
What type of drug test is performed? Saliva/urine etc. love your vid!
You have hit the nail on the head with drivers hours, it’s an absolute joke. Our so called union build our rosta’s and majority of the sheets finish late & start early, with only 10 hours between shifts - I can’t wind down after a shift, because I have to go straight too bed. My routine is in the morning, I tend to get up 1 1/2 hours before I start, so I can get breakfast, shower & travel to work.
Like you, we work 5 over 7 - But our days off are split & rarely together, so it doesn’t feel like a day off when you do have a day off.
How about not doing any overtime?
4:16 actually one must not be obliged to be able to sleep. A sleep disorder may easily occur under stress or fatigue. Then if the driver could not get rest yes that driver should notify being unable to take the shift, for everyone's sake.
After 10 years of driving, my opinion is that the industry is dying, it now constantly needs government handouts to stay afloat, roads can get so busy its genuinely a nightmare to drive and customers and the company treat you as just part of the bus, look at the wages,that shows proves it.
Fatigue management obviously doesn't exists in England. In Australia each state has their own laws, with driving laws. In Queensland we can only drive for a Maximum of 6 days, and a maximum of 10 hours in a 24 hour period, and no more than 5 1/4 hours without at least a 30 minute break.
We are under the same laws as heavy vehicle drivers, remember and we carry the most valuable cargo people and we need to be alert and not over tired.
Im starting a bus driving job soon if i pass my theory test next week however this video has made me think twice... 😕
Honestly it's a great job and im sure you will enjoy it. Find a balance of what works for you and the commitments you have outside of work. I'm certain you can make it work!! 👍🏻
Have you passed, im due mine soon.
Think twice and be very sure. No life after.
@@passportbro904 how long was you a driver for?
The worst thing about E.U legislation, is a driver needs to juggle two type of laws drivers hours and working time directive. And this alone is stressfull you basically are counting down your time left and thinking ahead where can I pull in for 45mins.
Hi,I am one of your followers,and I would like to know if bus drivers in UK need a Tachograph card please.Keep your videos coming mate.
Hi mate, only need a taco if working to EU regulations. Usually bus drivers work to domestic rules so don't need a tachograph card (hope this helps)
@@TheFlatCapBusDriver ok,thank you very much mate.
Hi mate. I was a driver over 10 years ago. I’m looking to get back into it possibly in London. When I did it 10 years ago in Manchester there were always wanting us to do overtime but it wasn’t an issue to refuse it. I can it you can still easily refuse the overtime if you want to?
hi mate, good luck getting back into the industry! As always overtime is always there and they will always ask you, if you just say no then they will move onto the next person to ask. If they are really short may even offer a pay increase for that one particular shift haha
The Flat Cap Bus Driver thanks pal, oh yeh I forgot about that. I used to get the old “do us an extra 2 hours and we’ll pay 4 hours” 😆
Worse again is when you have longer routes that come under EU rules so you have a shift with 3 routes under domestic rules, then digi card or chart in and switch, bringing you under EU rules for that 24 hour period and week/fortnight block for rest purposes with your domestic rules driving counted as other work. Makes it a lot more compicated to comply correctly when mixed. EU rules are better in the sense that a normal weekly rest period is 45 hours and a reduced 24 hours, essentially giving you a min of 2 day block off every other week worst case. Domestic rules are skirting on the side of driver fatigue as they are written.
If you're tired sick or whatever if you're not able to drive a bus they can't make you drive because if something happens you can sue the company it's different over here in America I'm not risking my CDL for anybody just say no
are you allowed to listen to music whilst driving as a bus driver?
Beautifully said mate
So true just come off a 8 day rotor and physically drained your brain 🧠
Im getting into the industry what are some of the other laws that you talk about beside the Domestic. If you did a brief video on just a short explanation on what they are and mean.
you've got EU and Domestic Laws, both differ in terms of breaks and driving times. I couldn't say much on EU as I've never worked on them before.
@@TheFlatCapBusDriver thankyou for the information much appreciated
Rediculous and outrageous, had no idea that was the state of bus regs. I have questioned the rules ive seen being worked by drivers before. Personally hold class2 HGV myself and WILL not drive when unfit and have lost work because of it - truth of it, I am responsible entirely if I kill someone on the road, I will be taken to court.
Extended Bodies for Most of the Buses
Much as I am not comfortable to ask the depot why they stopped running the London Suburban Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Gardner 6LX and Gardner 6LXC Diesel Engine Olympian ECW’s on routes N26, 30, 121, 230, 271, 349, N279 And 158 why can’t we make the same make of the Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Gardner 6LX and Gardner 6LXC Diesel Engine Olympian ECW Buses but Modernise the insides of these Buses. Also make it low floor up and down and also extend the middle body part of these vehicles a little bit more so there will be more space for the wheelchair users. By the way, if you could remake and Modernise these vehicles could they also make it into a Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Gardner 6LX and Gardner 6LXC Diesel Engine Olympian ECW Version’s that if it will be possible and to Modernise the insides of these Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Gardner 6LX and Gardner 6LXC Diesel Engine Olympian ECW’s make it low floor up and down and also extend the middle body part of these vehicles a Little bit more so there will be more space and even a London Suburban Scania N230UD Enviro 400 MMC and also extend the middle body part of these vehicles a little bit more. Why couldn’t we have those London Suburban Buses Pale red on the top roof Pale red again on the top middle Milk Chocolate brown on the middle Creamy white on the Bottom Middle and Milk Chocolate Brown again on the Bottom on most of those kind of those Particular Double Decker Vehicles. Could you put the Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox in the Scania N230UD Enviro 400 MMC and also put the Loud 3-Speed Voith Diwa Gearbox in the Volvo TD102KF Engine East Lancs Olympus and also extend the middle body part of these vehicles a little bit more and also turn most of them to a London Suburban Buses. By the way could you also make the routes N26, 349, 121, N279 and 271 into a London Suburban Buses and have a mixture of a Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Scania N230UD Enviro 400 MMC and Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Gardner 6LX and Gardner 6LXC Diesel Engine Olympian ECW Version’s. Could they also transfer the Arriva Bus Depots from Hackney to Stagecoach company so they can replace all the Arriva buses so that all of them can go to Birmingham and Leeds and they can be replaced by Stagecoach Loud 3-Speed Voith Diwa Gearbox Volvo TD102KF Engine East Lancs Olympus and also Extend the Middle body part of these Vehicles and that includes A Mixture of a Stagecoach Loud 3-Speed Voith Diwa Gearbox Volvo TD102KF, Gardner 6LXC and Gardner 6LXCT Engine Northern Counties Palatine One and that Includes a Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Scania N230UD Enviro 400 MMC Vehicles A Little Bit More. Can Arriva London Bus Company’s Replace Most of their Wight Buses so they can also transfer them to Birmingham and Also Manchester so they can be Replaced by Loud 3-Speed ZF Ecomat Gearboxes Volvo D10A Engine East Lancs Olympus and also Extend the Middle body part of these Vehicles A Little Bit More Thank You Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Much. Oh buy the way could the bus Factory Companies also Make More of Those Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Gardner 6LX and Gardner 6LXC Diesel engine Olympian ECW Vehicles And that also includes Those Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Cummins L10 Enviro 400 MMC And also Extend the Middle Body part of those Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Gardner 6LX and Gardner 6LXC Diesel Engine Olympian ECW Vehicles and the Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Cummins L10 Enviro 400 MMC Vehicles and that also includes The Loud 3-Speed ZF Ecomat Gearboxes Volvo D10A Engine East Lancs Olympus A Little Bit More And Paint Those 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Gardner 6LX Enviro 400 MMC Vehicles and also those Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Gardner 6LX and Gardner 6LXC Diesel engine Olympian ECW Vehicles and that also includes The Northern Counties Palatine One with a Volvo TD102KF, Gardner 6LXC and Gardner 6LXCT Diesel engines with a Loud 3-Speed Voith Diwa Gearboxes and The Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Scania N230UD Enviro 400 MMC Vehicles and also The Loud 4-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Automatic Gearbox Gardner 6LX Enviro 400 MMC Vehicles to the Grey Green Colours Just Like The Other Original Scania Grey Green on the Bus Route 313, 125, 168, 167, 275, 24, 20, and the 103, If all The Leyland Titan B15’s are Fully Red and even Mostly Red, could they also Repaint All of The Leyland Titan B15’s into Grey Green Colours Just Like The Other Original Scania Grey Green on the Bus Route 313 so they can Reuse them for Only Every 6 and a Half Months and also Reuse them on those Rail Replacement London Bus Routes if that will Be Alright for Only Just Every 6 and a Half Months and also Reuse Those Buses Only on the London Bus Routes witch are The 341, N41, 34, 123, N29, 149, 221, N73, 121, 86, 30, 262, 147, 396, 41, N26 so Please make sure that the builders can do as they are told!!!! And Please do something about these Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Important Professional Ideas Please Please Prime Minister and also Includes the Mayor of London.😉😉😉😉😉😄😄
Don't just go home and put the television on run your self a very nice peaceful bath or shower and listen to some nice relaxing music and may be have some very nice scented candles a light it will help your stress tto go away or speak to your depot manager if you still do t feel right at work such as chest pains or go for a coffee break and something to eat
Working time directive?
Think i will stick to coach driving
It’s the 12-13hrs spreads that do me in
They are killer mate!! Should be illegal!
I’m thinking of becoming a bus driver and it would be a contact for a min of 47 hours a week and I’m a full time carer do you think this is a good move for me because the money would be a big help? Thanks
Hi lee, thank you for your comment. I couldn't not say if I think it will be a good move for you. Its a completely different Job to being a carer (I've done both) and its comes with a lot of different kinds of stress!
The money would be a big help for you but 47 hours a week is killing!
I work 39.5 and at times I'm knackered. I have the option of overtime if I want to. I would look to start at 37.5 hours as it eases you into the Job so you get a feeling for it and you'll enjoy it. Over time I've noticed the people who work the most seem to hate the job.
anyways mate please message me on facebook if you would like any help with finding a bus job. Im more than happy to share my advice!
take care
Shaun
So what time does an early shift start for you?.
It can be four o'clock in morning some days or as late as like 4 in the afternoon depending on what shift your on, hope that helps
Ouch, is it decent pay?. You hear bus drivers earning £30,000PA. But the stress of everything involved in your job - ensuring the saftey of all your passengers, idiot drivers.
@@Thatonechristian24 I'd say average wage is around 24k you can earn more as theres plenty of overtime available in most bus companies, as far as stress goes the job is as stressful as you make it. Of course there is going be ignorant customers but a smile from a driver is better than trying to argue with them. Especially if you want to enjoy your job.
It's infair on drivers doing 10h+ a day
Metroline and Go Ahead best paid in London
It's catch 22, Theres not enough drivers because of the mediocre wages so therefore bus drivers are forced to do overtime just to make ends meet. If bus drivers were paid anything near train drivers wages people would not leave...the hours, expectations and unhealthy life of a driver almost guarantees ill health before retirement. The whole industry needs a serious wakeup.
By the way just finished an 10hr bank holiday shift. Not had a bank holiday off this year.
Should be max 5 days 10 hr's then 2 day's off (can be seperated)